PBS NewsHour; December 13, 2010 3:00pm-4:00pm PST

Captioning sponsored by MacNEIL/LEHRER PRODUCTIONS

>> Ifill: GOOD EVENING. I'M GWEN IFILL. A VIRGINIA JUDGE DECLARED TODAY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CANNOT FORCE AMERICANS TO BUY HEALTH INSURANCE.

>> Brown: AND I'M JEFFREY BROWN. ON THE NEWSHOUR TONIGHT, WE TALK TO NEERA TANDEN FROM THE CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS AND ATTORNEY DAVID RIVKIN ABOUT WHAT'S NEXT FOR THE HEALTH CARE REFORM LAW.

>> Ifill: THEN WE ASSESS THE PUBLIC'S INCREASED EXPOSURE TO CYBERSECURITY RISK, AS HACKERS STEP UP ATTACKS ON POPULAR WEB SITES.

>> Brown: DIANA HENRIQUES OF THE "NEW YORK TIMES" WALKS US THROUGH THE LATEST DEVELOPMENTS IN THE BERNARD MADOFF PONZI SCHEME CASE.

>> Ifill: WE TRACK TODAY'S DEVELOPMENTS IN THE SENATE, AS A PLAN TO EXTEND TAX CUTS HEADS TOWARD A FINAL VOTE.

>> Brown: AND JUDY WOODRUFF EXPLORES HOW A NEW NONPARTISAN GRASS-ROOTS GROUP CALLED NO LABELS WANTS TO SHAKE UP THE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM.

>> Ifill: THAT'S ALL AHEAD ON TONIGHT'S NEWSHOUR. MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY:

>> THIS WAS ME-- BEST RIBS IN NELSON COUNTY. BUT I WASN'T WINNING ANY RIBBONS MANAGING MY DIABETES. IT WAS SO COMPLICATED. THERE WAS A LOT OF INFORMATION OUT THERE, BUT IT WAS FRUSTRATING TRYING TO GET THE ANSWERS I NEEDED. THEN, MY COMPANY PARTNERED WITH UNITED HEALTHCARE. THEY PROVIDED ON-SITE SCREENINGS, HEALTHY COOKING TIPS. THAT'S A RECIPE I'M KEEPING.

>> TURNING COMPLEX DATA INTO EASY TOOLS. WE'RE 78,000 PEOPLE LOOKING OUT FOR 70 MILLION AMERICANS. THAT'S HEALTH IN NUMBERS. UNITED HEALTHCARE. TO HELP NEIGHBORHOODS IN MASSACHUSETTS, RESTORE HISTORIC LANDMARK IN HARLEM, FUND A LOCAL BUSINESS IN CHICAGO, EXPAND GREEN ENERGY INITIATIVES IN SEATTLE BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE GIVING, LENDING AND INVESTING IN MORE COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, MORE OPPORTUNITIES HAPPEN. BNSF RAILWAY. INTEL.

>> AND BY THE BILL AND MELINDA GATES FOUNDATION. DEDICATED TO THE IDEA THAT ALL PEOPLE DESERVE THE CHANCE TO LIVE A HEALTHY, PRODUCTIVE LIFE. AND WITH THE ONGOING SUPPORT OF THESE INSTITUTIONS AND FOUNDATIONS. AND... THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING. AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU.

>> Ifill: A FEDERAL JUDGE IN VIRGINIA RULED TODAY THAT A CRITICAL PROVISION OF THE HEALTH REFORM LAW IS NOT CONSTITUTIONAL, SETTING OFF FRESH DEBATE AND QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER THE LAW WILL SURVIVE. HEALTH CORRESPONDENT BETTY ANN BOWSER BEGINS OUR COVERAGE WITH THIS REPORT. .

>> Reporter: ALMOST AS SOON AS THE PRESIDENT SIGNED THE PATIENT PROTECTION AND AFFORDABLE CARE ACT INTO LAW, LEGAL CHALLENGES BEGAN TO MOUNT. MANY OF THE CASES FOCUS ON THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE. THE PART OF THE BILL THAT REQUIRES MOST AMERICANS TO CARRY HEALTH INSURANCE OR PAY A FINE STARTING IN 2014. TODAY IN VIRGINIA, U.S. DISTRICT JUDGE HENRY HUDSON, A REPUBLICAN APPOINTED BY PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, RULED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COULD NOT FORCE CITIZENS TO PURCHASE INSURANCE UNDER THE COMMERCE CLAUSE OF THE U.S. CONSTITUTION. IN THE 42-PAGE OPINION HE WROTE, "NEITHER THE SUPREME COURT NOR ANY FEDERAL CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS HAS EXTENDED COMMERCE CLAUSE POWERS TO COMPEL AN INDIVIDUAL TO INVOLUNTARILY ENTER THE STREAM OF COMMERCE BY PURCHASING A COMMODITY IN THE PRIVATE MARKET." BUT THE JUDGE DECLINED TO RULE THE ENTIRE LAW UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

>> MR. ATTORNEY GENERAL?

>> Reporter: HOURS LATER ATTORNEY GENERAL WHO FILED THE LAWSUIT SAID TODAY'S RULING WAS A CRITICAL MILESTONE IN THE PROTECTION OF THE CONSTITUTION.

>> ORDERING AMERICANS TO BUY HEALTH INSURANCE AS THE BILL DOES IS BEYOND THE CONGRESS'S POWER UNDER THE COMMERCE CLAUSE. IT UNDERSCORES THAT THE CONSTITUTION'S LIMITATIONS ON FEDERAL POWER REALLY DO MEAN SOMETHING. THE RULE OF LAW MEANS SOMETHING. EVEN THE PRESIDENT AND CONGRESS MUST ACT WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES SET BY THE CONSTITUTION. THE GOALS HERE WERE NOBLE IN THIS BILL, BUT EVEN NOBLE GOALS MAY ONLY BE PURSUED WITHIN THE POWERS OF THE CONSTITUTION.

>> Reporter: AT THE WHITE HOUSE, PRESS SECRETARY ROBERT GIBBS SAID HE BELIEVES THE HEALTH CARE ACT IS CONSTITUTIONAL. HE ALSO SAID IT WAS NECESSARY TO ENFORCE THE ENTIRE LAW IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN ELEMENTS OF THE BILL REPUBLICANS LIKE.

>> OUR BELIEF IS THAT THE HEALTH CARE ACT IS... WILL GO FORWARD AND THAT IT IS CONSTITUTIONAL. IT IMPROVES PEOPLE'S LIVES AND PARTICULARLY THIS IS THE BASIS, AS I'VE SAID, THE PROVISION THAT ALLOWS US TO FINALLY ADDRESS THE LINGERING DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THOSE WHO HAVE A PRE-EXISTING CONDITION.

>> Reporter: SO FAR, TWO FEDERAL CHALLENGES TO THE LAW HAVE BEEN STRUCK DOWN IN SEPARATE LAWSUITS IN VIRGINIA AND MICHIGAN. 25 OTHER LEGAL CHALLENGES TO THE NEW LAW HAVE BEEN FILED IN FEDERAL COURT, INCLUDING A LAWSUIT BROUGHT BY FLORIDA. 19 OTHER STATES HAVE JOINED THAT CASE WHICH WILL BE HEARD LATER THIS WEEK IN PENSACOLA. THAT SUIT ALSO CHARGES THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, BUT GOES FURTHER TO SAY THE NEW LAW PLACES AN UNFAIR FINANCIAL BURDEN ON ALREADY CASH STRAPPED STATES BY ADDING 16 MILLION PEOPLE TO MEDICAID. GIBBS SAID HE BELIEVES ULTIMATELY THE COURTS WILL RULE IN THE GOVERNMENT'S FAVOR IN THE VIRGINIA CASE.

>> THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OBVIOUSLY IS GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE SOME DECISIONS ABOUT APPEALING THIS PARTICULAR CASE. MY SENSE IS THAT THAT APPEAL DECISION IS SOMETHING THEY'LL LIKELY MAKE.

>> Reporter: THE OVERAYLMER ITS OF THE LAW ARE EXPECTED TO END UP BEFORE THE U.S. SUPREME COURT.

>> Ifill: NOW, FOR REACTION TO THIS RULING AND INSIGHT INTO THE BROADER BATTLE STILL PLAYING OUT OVER THE HEALTH CARE LAW, WE TURN TO NEERA TANDEN, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY KATHLEEN SEBELIUS. SHE'S NOW THE CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER FOR THE CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS, A LIBERAL ADVOCACY GROUP. AND DAVID RIVKIN, LEAD COUNSEL IN ANOTHER HEALTH CARE CHALLENGE, THIS ONE FILED IN FLORIDA. ATTORNEYS-GENERAL FROM 20 STATES HAVE SIGNED ON TO THAT LAWSUIT. DAVID RIVKIN, HOW SUBSTANTIALLY DOES THE JUDGE'S DECISION TODAY WEAKEN THE UNDERLYING HEALTH CARE LAW.

>> IT'S A MAJOR BLOW. IT'S A WELL REASONED DECISION THAT WENT TO GREAT DEGREE IN ANALYZING WHAT LIES AT THE HEART, THE PROBLEM AT THE HEART OF THIS STATUTE. YOU CAN REGULATE COMMERCE. CONGRESS CAN REGULATE COMMERCE. CONGRESS CANNOT COMPEL CONGRESS. THERE'S NO PRECEDENT FOR IT. IF YOU GO DOWN IN THAT DIRECTION YOU PRODUCE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT EXERCISING GENERAL POLICE POWER. THAT'S RESERVED FOR THE STATES. THE GOAL ARE NOBLE THAT UNDERLIE THE STATUTE. THE GOVERNMENT HAS DONE IT IN THE WRONG WAY. THEY'VE DONE IT IN A FUNDAMENTALLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL WAY.

>> Ifill: YOUR RESPONSE TO THE SAME QUESTION. HOW MUCH DOES IT WEAKEN THE LAW?

>> WELL, I THINK IT WEAKENS A FUNDAMENTAL PROTECTION OF THE LAW WHICH IS PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS REGULATIONS, BUT IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY OVERTURN THE OVERALL LAW WHICH IS WHAT THE VIRGINIA ATTORNEY GENERAL REQUESTED. IT STRIKES AT A PARTICULAR PROVISION, THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE. THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER PROVISIONS THAT PROVIDE PROTECTIONS SO IT'S... IT STRIKES AT AN IMPORTANT PART. IT'S NOT AN UNIMPORTANT PART. BUT IT DOES NOT UNDERMINE THE WHOLE LAW. WE BELIEVE THIS WILL BE OVERTURNED. WE AGREE WITH THE WHITE HOUSE THAT THIS ULTIMATELY WILL BE RESOLVED AS CONSTITUTIONAL.

>> Ifill: AS BETTY ANNE REPORT, MS. TANDEN WE HAVE SEEN TWO OTHER CHALLENGES SO FAR. THEY HAVE UPHELD THE LAW. THIS ONE AT LEAST THIS KEY CRITICAL PROVISION WAS NOT UPHELD. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?

>> WELL, THE JUDGE FOUND DIFFERENTLY. HE TOOK THE SAME SET OF FACTS AND DISAGREED WITH THE FINDING THAT IT'S CONSTITUTIONAL. OBVIOUSLY HE FOUND THAT THIS KIND OF ACTIVITY WHERE PEOPLE ARE CHOOSING NOT TO HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE IN A SYSTEM WHERE WE LIVE IN A SYSTEM WHERE EVERYONE GETS HEALTH CARE AT ONE POINT OR ANOTHER. IT'S JUST A DECISION WHEN TO GET HEALTH CARE. THEY GET COVERAGE. EVERYONE WHO GOES TO THE HOSPITAL IS COVERED IN OUR SYSTEM. SO IT'S A QUESTION OF PURCHASING HEALTH INSURANCE. OTHER JUDGES SAW THIS SAME SET OF FACTS AND SAID IT WOULD NOT BE... IT WAS NOT UNCONSTITUTIONAL. HE LOOK AT THE SAME SET OF FACTS AND FOUND THEM CONSTITUTIONAL. WE'RE SEEING A PARTISAN SPLIT AMONG JUDGES ON THIS DECISION.

>> Ifill: IS THIS A PARTISAN SPLIT AND WHETHER IT IS OR NOT HOW DOES THIS AFFECT WHAT YOU DO WITH THE UPCOMING CASE IN FLORIDA.

>> IT PROVIDES SOME GOOD REINFORCEMENT FOR OUR CASE. WE'RE VERY OPTIMISTIC ABOUT IT. LET'S GET SOMETHING OFF THE TABLE. VERY UNFORTUNATE TO TALK ABOUT IT IN A PARTISAN SENSE. WHEN YOU GO BEFORE A JUDGE OR JUDGES I DON'T CHECK WHICH PRESIDENT APPOINTED THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE FUNCTIONING IN THAT MODE ANYMORE. IT'S INTERESTING MS. TANDEN USED THE WORD ACTIVITY. THAT'S THE KEY PROBLEM. THIS STATUTE DOES NOT REGULATE ACTIVITY. THIS STATUTE REGULATES OR PURPORTS TO REGULAR INACTIVITY.

>> Ifill: EXPLAIN WHAT THAT MEANS.

>> IF YOU LOOK AT ALL THE COMMERCE CLAUSE, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REGULATES YOU BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU DO. BECAUSE OF THINGS YOU MANUFACTURE, BECAUSE OF THINGS YOU BUY, BECAUSE OF YOU TRAVELING IN THE COURSE OF BUSINESS. IT REACHES ACTIVITIES. THE ENTIRE JURISPRUDENCE DEAL ING WITH THE COMMERCE CLAUSE DEALS WITH ACTIVES. HERE WE'RE BEING TOLD THAT OUR DECISION NOT TO ENTER THE STREAM OF COMMERCE HAS ECONOMIC IMPACTS. YOU KNOW WHAT? EVEN IF IT'S TRUE THE PROBLEM IS THAT EVERYTHING YOU DO. IF YOU GO TO SLEEP TONIGHT, YOUR DECISION TO GO TO SLEEP MEANS YOU'RE NOT WORKING. THAT HAS AN IMPACT ON THE LABOR MARKET. THERE'S NO LIMITING PRINCIPLE. THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE HAS LABORED MIGHTLY BOTH IN OUR CASE AND THE VIRGINIA CASE TO COME UP WITH SOME LIMITING PRINCIPLE TO TELL THE COURT IF YOU FIND FOR US HERE, IF YOU SUSTAIN THIS MANDATE YOU WOULD NOT HAVE TO DO IT AGAIN AND AGAIN. THEY'VE FAILED. THAT IS WHY I BELIEVE THIS CASE IS GOING TO COME OUT IN OUR FAVOR AT THE END OF THE DAY.

>> Ifill: MS. TANDEN.

>> THIS NOTION OF INACTIVITY OR ACTIVITY IS A DOCTRINE THAT IS MADE UP BY CONSTITUTIONAL CONSERVATIVES. THE ISSUE HERE REALLY IS THAT WE HAVE A HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. FOR EXAMPLE, 30 ECONOMISTS, TWO NOBEL PRIZE WINNING ECONOMISTS FILED AN AMICUS BRIEF EXACTLY ON THIS POINT OF ECONOMIC ACTIVITY. WE HAVE A SYSTEM IN OUR COUNTRY WHERE IF YOU GET SICK, YOU GO TO THE HOSPITAL, THEY HAVE TO COVER YOU. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? THAT MEANS THAT THERE'S $40 BILLION IN COST IN THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE BUT GET CARE BECAUSE OF THIS. COSTS ARE SHIFTED ON TO OTHER PEOPLE. SO EVERY DECISION BY A SICK PERSON TO GET... TO GO TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM, I AND YOU ARE PAYING FOR IN YOUR PREMIUMS. HEALTH CARE IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF MARKET. IT'S DIFFERENT FROM BUYING WIDGETS. WE'RE ALL INTER-CONNECTED. THAT'S THE ISSUE WITH AFFORDABLE CARE ACT. IT'S INTER-CONNECTED.

>> Ifill: I JUST WANT TO MOVE ON TO ANOTHER POINT BEFORE WE FIND OURSELVES OUT OF TIME. ANOTHER KEY PART OF THIS ARGUMENT TURNED ON THE QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER THE PENALTIES FOR NON-OR THE COST OF NONCOMPLIANCE ACTUALLY CONSTITUTES A PENALTY OR A TAX. WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES THAT MAKE?

>> WELL, BECAUSE IF THIS WAS A VALID TAX, THE GOVERNMENT COULD SUPPORT THE MANDATE USING ITS TAX AUTHORITY. BUT THIS IS NOT A TAX.

>> Ifill: THIS IS WHAT WE ARGUE.

>> WHICH IS WHAT THEY ARGUE. THE PARADOX HERE, OF COURSE, IS IS THE PEOPLE WHO ENACTED THIS BILL INCLUDING THE PRESIDENT ARGUED VOCIFEROUSLY THAT IT'S NOT A TAX AND EVEN IF IT WERE NOT A TAX IT WAS NOT A VALID WAY OF USING IT. LET ME MENTION ONE VERY IMPORTANT POINT. UNDER MS. TANDEN'S LOGIC THE SAME PROBLEMS WOULD OCCUR AGAIN. FOR EXAMPLE, OVER $80 BILLION WORTH OF CREDIT CARD BILLS EVERY YEAR, THAT MONEY GETS PASSED ON TO THOSE WHO DO PAY THEIR CREDIT CARD BILLS. UNDER HER LOGIC THE GOVERNMENT CAN IMPOSE A MANDATE ON EVERYBODY WHO HAS CREDIT CARDS TO CARRY INSURANCE THAT PAYS FOR THAT. LOOK AT THE MORTGAGE DISASTER. OVER A TRILLION DOLLARS FOR MORTGAGES. WHY SHOULDN'T THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REQUIRE PEOPLE TO PURCHASE SPECIAL INSURANCE THAT REGARDS AGAINST DEFAULT. THERE'S NO LIMITING PRINCIPLE. EVERY ACTIVITY UNDER HER LOGIC, EVERY HUMAN BEHAVIOR WOULD PROVIDE THIS.

>> Ifill: LET'S ALLOW HER TO DEFEND HER LOGIC.

>> THE DIFFERENCE THERE IS THERE IS A FEDERAL LAW. IT'S CALLED... IT REQUIRES EVERYONE WHO GETS SICK NEEDS EMERGENCY CARE TO BE ABLE TO GO TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM. THERE ARE NO SICK PROVISIONS. THERE ARE NO SUCH LAW IN OTHER AREAS. CONSERVATIVES DON'T WANT TO TAKE ON THE ESSENTIAL RULE THAT THE SICKEST AMONGST US GET COVERAGE WHEN THEY'RE SICK. WHEN THEY HAVE AN EMERGENCY ROOM, THEY DON'T WANT TO TAKE ON THAT LAW BUT THEY WANT TO TAKE ON THIS ONE. THAT LAW UNDERPINS THIS AFFORDABLE CARE ACT. AND WHY IT'S IMPORTANT THAT IT IS MAINTAINED SO THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY KEEP THINGS LIKE PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS SO PEOPLE WHO HAVE CANCER, WHO HAVE OTHER ILLNESSES CAN ACTUALLY GET THE PROTECTION OF THIS LAW. THESE PIECES ARE INTER-RELATED. THEY'RE CRITICALLY IMPORTANT. THEY'RE INTER-CONNECTED. JUST ON THE TAX ISSUE I WOULD SAY THIS IS AN AREA WHERE THE JUDGE CLEARLY OVERREACHED. THIS IS PART OF THE I.R.S. CODE. HE CHOSE TO DETERMINE THAT IT IS NOT A TAX. HE MADE THAT DETERMINATION ON HIS OWN. OTHER JUDGES HAVE LOOKED AT THIS DIFFERENTLY. I THINK THAT'S ANOTHER GROUNDS FOR APPEAL.

>> Ifill: SHE SAID EVERYTHING WAS INTER-CONNECTED HERE. THAT BRINGS US TO THE QUESTION OF SEVENERABILITY. THE JUDGE VERY SPECIFICALLY ONLY RULED ON THIS ONE PART AND STAYED AWAY FROM KNOCKING DOWN THE WHOLE LAW OR SAY THAT ANYTHING THAT HAPPENED HERE WOULD AFFECT ANY OTHER PART OF THE LAW. WAS HE CORRECT?

>> I BELIEVE THE DECISION DOES NOT GO AS FAR AS IT SHOULD. IN OUR CASE WE ARE MAKING THIS ARGUMENT VERY FORCEFULLY. WE'RE CHALLENGING NOT ONLY THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE BUT THE MEDICAID EXPANSION AND THE UNCONSTITUTIONAL BURDEN IT IMPOSES ON THE STATE. WE FEEL THE ENTIRE STATUTE IS NOT CONSTITUTIONAL. I WANT TO ADD ONE FUNDAMENTAL POINT. EVERYTHING THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS SEEKING HERE, UNIVERSAL COVERAGE, BETTER ACCESS, COULD BE DONE. THE PROBLEM OF THIS BILL IS NOT THE GOALS. THE GOVERNMENT CHOSE TO DO IT IN AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL WAY. QUITE FRANKLY I THINK THE REASONS ARE POLITICAL EXPEDIENCE. WE CAN HAVE A BETTER APPROACH TO COVERING THE UNINSURED, BROADENING AND DECREASING PARTICIPATION AND PROVIDING BETTER COSTS THAN THE INSURANCE MARKET BUT IT CANNOT BE DONE WITHOUT VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION. THAT'S WHAT THIS BILL DOES.

>> Ifill: YOU GET THE LAST WORD, MS. TANDEN.

>> THE IRONY HERE IS THAT IF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ISSUED A PUBLIC PLAN FOR EVERY AMERICAN AS IT DOES FOR MEDICARE IT WOULD NOT BE HELD UNCONSTITUTIONAL. IF THIS WAS A MORE CENTRIST DECISION IF THE PRESIDENT CHOSE TO USE AN INDIVIDUAL MANDATE WHICH CONSERVATIVES HAVE SUPPORTED LIKE MITT ROMNEY AND STEWART BUTLER, IT IS WELL WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THE PRESIDENT AND THE CONGRESS AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO DO THAT. BECAUSE IT IS SIMPLY INSURING THAT PEOPLE WHO FREE RIDE IN THE SYSTEM, WHO DON'T GET HEALTH CARE COVERAGE BUT GET SICK THAT THEY HAVE... THAT THEY TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN HEALTH CARE.

>> Ifill: THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH.

>> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> Brown:

>> Ifill: STILL TO COME ON THE NEWSHOUR, CYBER SECURITY AND THE INTERNET; A BERNIE MADOFF UPDATE; THE TAX CUT HURDLE IN THE SENATE; AND A NEW BIPARTISAN GRASS-ROOTS MOVEMENT. BUT FIRST, THE OTHER NEWS OF THE DAY. HERE'S KWAME HOLMAN IN OUR NEWSROOM.

>> Holman: PARTS OF THE UPPER MIDWEST WERE PARALYZED TODAY BY A POWERFUL BLIZZARD THAT CLAIMED THE LIVES OF AT LEAST 14 PEOPLE. ROADS IN NORTHERN INDIANA AND ILLINOIS WERE TREACHEROUS FOR TRAVELERS, AND ON ONE TEN-MILE STRETCH MOTORISTS WERE STUCK FOR MORE THAN 12 HOURS. OVER THE WEEKEND, THE STORM DUMPED NEARLY TWO FEET OF SNOW ACROSS PARTS OF WISCONSIN AND MINNESOTA BEFORE MOVING EAST. THE WEIGHT OF THE SNOW COLLAPSED THE ROOF OF THE MINNESOTA VIKINGS' FOOTBALL STADIUM. THEIR GAME WAS MOVED TO DETROIT, AND WILL BE PLAYED TONIGHT. IN AFGHANISTAN, SEVERAL SUSPECTS HAVE BEEN ARRESTED IN CONNECTION WITH A SUICIDE ATTACK THAT KILLED SIX AMERICAN TROOPS. THE INCIDENT HAPPENED SUNDAY IN THE SOUTHERN PROVINCE OF KANDAHAR. A MINIBUS PACKED WITH EXPLOSIVES BLEW UP AT THE ENTRANCE TO A JOINT NATO-AFGHAN BASE. IT WAS THE DEADLIEST ATTACK ON COALITION TROOPS SO FAR THIS MONTH. IT COMES DAYS BEFORE A MAJOR WHITE HOUSE REVIEW OF AFGHAN STRATEGY IS DUE. AUTHORITIES IN SWEDEN SAID A SUICIDE BOMBER THERE WAS READY TO ATTACK A TRAIN STATION OR DEPARTMENT STORE, BUT HIS BOMB WENT OFF PREMATURELY. AN INVESTIGATION INTO SATURDAY'S BOMBING WAS UNDER WAY IN BOTH SWEDEN AND BRITAIN, WHERE THE BOMBER LIVED. WE HAVE A REPORT FROM ANDREW DAVIES OF INDEPENDENT TELEVISION NEWS.

>> OH, MY GOD!

>> Reporter: THE FOOTAGE WAS TAKEN SHORTLY AFTER SATURDAY'S SUSPECTED TERRORIST ATTACK IN STOCKHOLM. IT IS LATE AFTERNOON IN A POPULAR SHOPPING DISTRICT.

>> AH!

>> Reporter: ANOTHER CAMERA CAPTURES THE SPORADIC SERIES OF EXPLOSIONS WITHIN THE CAR. THERE HAS BEEN NO FORMAL LIS REPORT AS TO WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED IN THE FIRST MINUTES FOLLOWING THE EXPLOSION. IT'S UNDERSTOOD THAT THE DRIVER OF THE CAR, THOUGHT TO BE THIS MAN, ATTEMPTED A SECOND EXPLOSION JUST 200 YARDS AWAY USING A DEVICE STRAPPED TO HIS BODY. HE WAS FOUND WITH FATAL BLAST INJURIES TO HIS ABDOMEN WHERE IT WAS REPORTED OTHER DEVICES BESIDE HIM. NOW THE METROPOLITAN POLICE, COUNTERTERRORISM COMMAND, AND MI-5 ARE INVOLVED INVESTIGATING THE MAN'S LINKS TO BRITAIN. THE 29-YEAR-OLD HAD GROWN UP IN SWEDEN BUT SPENT MUCH OF THE LAST DECADE... THIS REPORTEDLY HIS LAST KNOWN ADDRESS. IT'S UNDERSTOOD THAT THE 29-YEAR-OLD WAS BORN IN BAGHDAD BUT MOVED TO STOCKHOLM WITH HIS FAMILY IN 1992 AND BECAME A SWEDISH NATIONAL. IN 2001, AGE 20, HE CAME TO THE U.K. TO STUDY PHYSICAL THERAPY. WHAT IS NOW CALLED THE UNIVERSITY OF BEDFORDSHIRE. IT'S BELIEVED HE MARRIED IN 2004 AND HAS TWO DAUGHTERS AND A BABY BOY. AND IN THE LAST HOUR IT WAS REPORTED THAT THE MAN LEFT A WILL ON A JIHADIST INTERNET FORUM IN WHICH IT WAS CLAIMED HE IDENTIFIED HIMSELF AS THE BOMBER AND CALLED FOR MORE ATTACKS IN EUROPE.

>> Holman: SEVEN BOMB EXPERTS FROM THE F.B.I. WENT TO ASSIST IN THE INVESTIGATION. HAITI'S ELECTORAL COUNCIL REOPENED HEARINGS FOR APPEALS OF THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION RESULTS. THE MOVE EXTENDS THE APPEALS PROCESS BY THREE DAYS, TO WEDNESDAY. OFFICIALS SAID THEY MADE THE OVERTURE WITH THE HOPE OF CALMING POST-ELECTION VIOLENCE. THE VOTE HAPPENED AT THE END OF NOVEMBER, BUT WAS WIDELY CRITICIZED FOR INCIDENTS OF VOTER INTIMIDATION AND ALLEGED BALLOT BOX STUFFING. BACK IN THIS COUNTRY, PRESIDENT OBAMA SIGNED LEGISLATION TO PROVIDE CHILDREN WITH MORE-- AND MORE HEALTHFUL-- SCHOOL MEALS. AT AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL CEREMONY, THE PRESIDENT JOINED LAWMAKERS, SCHOOLCHILDREN, AND THE FIRST LADY WHO HAS SPEARHEADED A DRIVE TO COMBAT CHILDHOOD OBESITY. THE LAW DIRECTS $4.5 BILLION TO EXPAND FREE MEALS PROGRAMS AND IT EMPOWERS THE GOVERNMENT TO PRESCRIBE WHAT KINDS OF FOODS MAY BE SOLD IN SCHOOLS. ON WALL STREET TODAY, STOCKS WERE MIXED AFTER A LIGHT DAY OF TRADING. THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE GAINED 18 POINTS TO CLOSE AT 11,428. THE NASDAQ FELL MORE THAN 12 POINTS TO CLOSE AT 2625. THOSE ARE SOME OF THE DAY'S MAJOR STORIES. NOW, BACK TO JEFF.

>> Brown: AND WE TURN TO NOW TO THE VULNERABILITY OF THE INTERNET, AFTER A WEEK OF VERY VISIBLE HACKS AND ATTACKS. IN THE DAYS FOLLOWING THE RELEASE OF CLASSIFIED GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS BY WIKILEAKS, THOUSANDS OF THE SITE'S SUPPORTERS, SO CALLED, CAPTIVISTS HAVE LAUNCHED ON-LINE ATTACKS AIMED AT COMPANIES AND GROUPS THEY DEEM HOSTILE TO WIKILEAKS AND TO THE FREE FLOW OF INFORMATION. LAST WEEK A GROUP CALLING ITSELF ANONYMOUS TARGETED THE WEBSITES OF VISA, MASTER CARD AND PAY PAL AMONG OTHERS AFTER THE COMPANIES STOPPED PROCESSING DONATIONS TO WIKILEAKS. GOVERNMENT WEBSITES, TOO, HAVE BEEN VULNERABLE. THE SENATE WEBSITE WAS SLOWED LAST WEEK AFTER SENATOR JOE LIEBERMAN CRITICIZED SITES ENABLING WIKILEAKS. THE ATTACKS USED SOFTWARE THAT CHAIN TOGETHER HUNDREDS OF COMPUTERS THAT ALL REQUEST INFORMATION FROM THE SAME WEBSITE AT THE SAME TIME. CAUSING A TRAFFIC JAM THAT MAKES THE SITE INACCESSIBLE.

>> IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE LIKE WHAT HAPPENS IN THE '60s WHEN PROTESTERS TOOK OVER BUILDINGS AT, YOU KNOW, UNIVERSITIES WHERE PEOPLE COULDN'T GET IN THE BUILDING BUT IT'S NOT REALLY THEM BLOWING UP THE BUILDING.

>> Brown: WHILE ALL THAT GOES ON, THIS WEEKEND THERE WAS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF ON-LINE HACKING. THIS ONE AFFECTING THE POPULAR SITE GAWKER. AN EIGHT-YEAR-OLD DIGITAL MEDIA COMPANY THAT HOSTS BLOGS ON MEDIA, TECHNOLOGY, AND POP CULTURE. A GROUP CALLING ITSELF NO-SIS RAIDED GAWKER BORROWING INSIDE ITS DATABASES TO UNLOCK THE USER NAMES, PASSWORDS AND EMAIL ADDRESSES OF SOME 1.3 MILLION PEOPLE WHO HAD LEFT COMMENTS ON THE SITE. GAWKER WAS FORCED TO STOP PUBLISHING TEMPORARILY SUNDAY AND URGED ITS USERS TO CHANGE THEIR PASSWORDS. THERE WERE SIGNS THE HACKERS HAD ACTED IN RETALIATION AFTER A WAR OF WORDS WITH GAWKER. THEY ALSO APPEARED TO SEND A MESSAGE ABOUT THE VULNERABILITY OF USER NAMES AND PASSWORDS LISTING SEVERAL THOUSANDS ACCOUNTS IN WHICH THE PASSWORD FOR THE ACCOUNT IS THE WORD "PASSWORD." OUR OWN HARI SREENIVASAN COVERS TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENTS FOR US ONLINE, AND HAS BEEN FOLLOWING THE GAWKER SITUATION. HE JOINS ME NOW FOR AN UPDATE. WHO DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT GAWKER, TELL US MORE ABOUT IT.

>> IT IS ONE OF THE LARGEST PUBLISHERS ON THE WEB. IT'S REALLY AN AMAZING SET OF SIGHT SIGHS, WHETHER YOU CARE ABOUT CARS OR GADGETS, IT'S ONE OF THE MUST-CHECK SITES ON THE INTERNET. ALMOST LIKE A MODERN DAY SALON. PEOPLE COME THERE FOR INFORMATION BUT THEY'RE COMING JUST AS MUCH FOR THE COMMENT THREADS AND TO LEAVE A COMMENT REALLY TO BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION.

>> Brown: WE TALK ABOUT THIS GROUP CALLED NO-SIS. HOW MUCH DO WE KNOW ABOUT WHO THEY ARE AND WHAT DID THEY DO?

>> A LOT OF THESE SORT OF HACKER GROUPS ARE VERY SHADOWY IN NATURE IN THE SENSE THAT THERE'S NO CARD-CARRYING MEMBERSHIP THAT SAYS I'M PART OF THIS CLUB. I'M THE ONE WHO DID THIS AND HERE IS MY ADDRESS AND PHONE NUMBER. WHAT THEY DID TO GAWKER WAS COME IN BEHIND THE SCENES IN THE PAST FEW WEEKS, PAST FEW MONTHS AND FIGURE OUT VULNERABILITIES AND START TO TAKE THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM. EVERYTHING THAT GAWKER HELD DEAR, MOST IMPORTANT THE USER INFORMATION, THEY TOOK ALL OF THAT OUT AND SPLAED IT OUT ACROSS THE INTERNET. THEM DIDN'T HIDE THE INFORMATION FOR THEMSELVES FOR SOME SORT OF A KIND NEFARIOUS MEANS. THEY SAID, TAKE IT BECAUSE THEY'RE THE CROWN JEWELS.

>> Brown: YOU WERE TELLING ME EARLIER TODAY THAT YOU WENT ONLINE LAST NIGHT. GIVE US EXAMPLES. WHAT COULD YOU SEE THERE?

>> WELL, SOMETHING VERY MINIMALLY INVASIVE WAS THAT I COULD SEE WHAT THE FUTURE OF THE GAWKER WEBSITE WAS SUPPOSED TO LOOK LIKE WHICH IS SOMETHING PRETTY IMPORTANT THAT YOU WANT TO TRY TO KEEP SECRET. IF I WAS A REAL TECHNOLOGIST, I COULD SEE THE CONTENT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. I COULD SEE THE DATABASES AND WHERE THEY STORE THEIR PASSWORDS. I COULD SEE THE ADVERTISING INFORMATION WHICH COULD BE VERY IMPORTANT. BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT, AGAIN, THE CROWN JEWELS WERE THE USER NAMES, THE PASSWORDS, AND THE EMAIL ADDRESSES CONNECTED TO THEM OF SOME 1.3 MILLION USERS. THAT'S REALLY THE STUFF THAT I, AS A COMPLETE NOVICE, COULD SEE.

>> Brown: HOW ARE THOSE PEOPLE AFFECTED? IN WHAT WAYS?

>> WELL, SO IT KIND OF GETS BACK TO SOCIAL ENGINEERING. A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE DON'T MAKE SEPARATE PASSWORDS AND SEPARATE USER NAMES FOR DIFFERENT WEBSITES. SOMETIMES THEY USE THE SAME WEBSITE OR SAME EMAIL ADDRESS THAT I HAVE FOR WORK ON TO A SITE LIKE GAWKER AND THEN MAYBE THAT'S THE SAME PASSWORD THAT GETS ME INTO FACE BOOK AND IT'S ALSO CONNECTED TO TWITTER. AS WE SEE ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT KIND OF COMMUNITIES THAT WE PARTICIPATE IN DURING THE DAY, PEOPLE AREN'T VERY GOOD AT KEEPING THESE WALLS SEPARATE. THAT'S WHERE THE REAL INFLUENCE IS.

>> Brown: I HEARD TODAY SO THEY USE TO THAT AFFECT TWITTER AS WELL RIGHT. THESE WOULD BE PEOPLE WHO USE THE SAME PASSWORD FOR GAWKER AND TWITTER.

>> THE SAME USER NAME OR THE PASSWORD. SOMEBODY BETWEEN LAST NIGHT AND THIS MORNING WROTE A SMALL COMPUTER PROGRAM THAT FIGURED OUT THAT EXPLOIT WHILE HUNDREDS OR THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ARE ASLEEP THEIR TWITTER ACCOUNTS WERE AUTOMATICALLY SENDING OUT ADVERTISEMENTS FOR THE SUPER BERRY, RIGHT? WHILE YOU WERE SLEEPING YOU WERE ACTUALLY A VICTIM TO SOMEBODY ELSE'S MARKETING SCAM.

>> Brown: WHAT IF I OR WHAT IF I OUR VIEWERS DON'T GO ON GAWKER? SHOULD THEY CARE?

>> THEY SHOULD CARE BECAUSE THIS ACTUALLY EXPLOITS LARGER VULNERABILITYS INTO THEIR WORKPLACES. NOT ONLY WERE THEIR G-MAIL AND YAHOO ACCOUNTS BUT A LOT OF GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTS AND A LOT OF EDU WHICH MEANS UNIVERSITIES OR EDUCATIONAL ACCOUNTS. IF THESE PEOPLE DON'T CHANGE THEIR PASSWORDS DON'T GET A LITTLE STRONGER ABOUT THEIR OWN PROTECTIONS, THOSE SYSTEMS COULD ALSO BE COMPROMISED. I MEAN ALL OF THOSE EMAIL ADDRESSES ARE NOW OUT THERE FOR OTHER HACKERS TO EXPLOIT.

>> Brown: WHAT OF GAWKER? THEY TEMPORARILY STOP PUBLISHING. THEY'RE CERTAINLY BACK NOW. HAVE THEY TAKEN ANY STEPS WE KNOW OF TO PREVENT THIS IN THE FUTURE?

>> THEY SAID THEY ARE. THEY APOLOGIZE TO THEIR USERS ON THEIR BLOG. THEY SAID THEY'RE REALLY EMBARRASSED AND WE WANT TO TRY TO HELP YOU CHANGE YOUR PASSWORD. IF I WANTED TO DELETE MY ACCOUNT ON GAWKER, I COULDN'T DO THAT BECAUSE THE DATABASE THAT WOULD HAVE ALLOWED ME TO DO THAT WAS CORRUPTED BY THE HACKERS LAST NIGHT.

>> Brown: THANKS A LOT.

>> Brown: NOW, SOME WIDER PERSPECTIVE ON ALL THIS FROM TWO WHO FOLLOW THE ONLINE WORLD CLOSELY. JAMES LEWIS, DIRECTOR AND SENIOR FELLOW OF THE TECHNOLOGY AND PUBLIC POLICY PROGRAM AT THE CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES HERE IN WASHINGTON. AND LARRY CLINTON, PRESIDENT AND C.E.O. OF THE INTERNET SECURITY ALLIANCE, AN INDUSTRY TRADE GROUP THAT REPRESENTS COMPANIES AND ORGANIZATIONS FOCUSING ON INTERNET SECURITY. WELCOME TO BOTH YOU. JIM LEWIS, WE LISTEN TO THIS. BAUD BROADEN IT OUT. HOW VULNERABLE IS THE SYSTEM AND WHERE DO YOU SEE THE MAIN PROBLEMS?

>> THE MAIN PROBLEM IS WE'RE USING 1970s TECHNOLOGY OR AT LEAST 1990s TECHNOLOGY AND IT JUST ISN'T APPROPRIATE ANYMORE FOR A GLOBAL INFRASTRUCTURE. THERE ARE SOME THINGS LIKE THIS GAWKER WEBSITE WE'RE NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO FIX. PASSWORDS ARE VERY DIFFICULT TO MAKE SECURE. MAYBE IMPOSSIBLE. IF YOU'RE DEPENDING ON A PASSWORD, CHANCES ARE YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN TROUBLE. I KNOW THAT MIGHT FRIGHTEN PEOPLE BUT THAT'S THE REALITY.

>> Brown: THE REASON FOR BEING FRIGHTENED. WHAT DO YOU SEE?

>> WELL, THERE IS REASON FOR BEING FRIGHTENED. WE HAVE AN INSECURE SYSTEM THAT WAS DESIGNED TO BE OPEN NOT TO BE SECURE. WE'RE EXPANDING THAT SYSTEM WITH ALL SORTS OF NEW DEVICES, HAND HELD DEVICES, SMART PHONES, ET CETERA. SO THE SYSTEM IS BECOMING GENERALLY LESS SECURE.

>> Brown: IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE A LOT OF THIS ISN'T ABOUT HIGH TECHNOLOGY. THIS IS HUMAN NATURE. PEOPLE WANT TO SIMPLIFY THEIR LIVES SO WE USE THE SAME PASSWORD.

>> THAT'S RIGHT. I MEAN, THE PROBLEM REALLY IS....

>> Brown: THEY EVEN USE THE PASSWORD FOR PASSWORD.

>> 12346 IS THE MOST COMMON PASSWORD THE PROBLEM IS WE WON'T BUY SECURE SYSTEMS. WE WANT EASY AND WE WANT CHEAP. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BEGIN TO LOOK AT CYBER SECURITY AS MUCH MORE THAN JUST A TECHNOLOGICAL ISSUE. IT'S A STRATEGIC AND ECONOMIC ISSUE. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE A FULL-SCALE LOOK AT ALL THESE THINGS IN AN INTEGRATED FASHION.

>> Brown: GIVE US NEWS THAT VIEWERS CAN USE HERE. WHAT SHOULD THEY DO ESPECIALLY HERE WE ARE IN THE HOLIDAY SEASON. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE-LINE SHOPPING FOR EXAMPLE.

>> IF YOU PAY A LITTLE ATTENTION TO YOUR PASSWORD, YOU CAN MAKE IT HARDER. YOU'RE GOING TO KNOCK OUT THE LOWER-END HACKERS WHICH IS MAINLY WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN A LOT OF THESE WIKILEAKS AND GAWKER THINGS. YOU KNOW, DON'T USE YOUR PET'S NAME. IF YOU HAVE PERSONAL INFORMATION ON FACE BOOK OR A SOCIAL NETWORKING SITE, DON'T USE THAT AS YOUR PASSWORD. A LOT PEOPLE DO THAT. FINALLY, THE DEFAULT PASSWORD ON ALL EQUIPMENT WHEN YOU BUY IT IS PASSWORD. CHANGE THE DEFAULT.

>> Brown: WHAT WOULD YOU ADD TO THAT SOME.

>> WELL, THAT'S ALL GOOD ADVICE. IT DOES BEGIN TO SCRATCH THE SURFACE OF THE PROBLEM. BUT WE NEED TO GET MUCH DEEPER WITH THE PROBLEM. ENTERPRISES NEED TO BE MUCH MORE INVOLVED IN OVERALL CYBER SECURITY. ONE OF THE LEAST PUBLICIZED FACTS IN THIS FIELD IS THAT WE KNOW TONS ABOUT HOW TO SECURE THESE SYSTEMS.

>> Brown: WE DO. WHAT DO WE KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE?

>> ENTERPRISES NEED TO HAVE A RISK MANAGEMENT PLAN. MOST DON'T. THEY NEED TO HAVE SOMEBODY IN CHARGE OF THE PLAN. MOST DON'T. WE NEED TO BE BEGINNING TO FUND THE INVESTMENT IN CYBER SECURITY EQUAL TO THE UP SIDE THAT WE DO INVEST. MOST BUSINESSES ARE HAPPY TO INVEST IN ON-LINE MARKETING AND ALL THE ADVANTAGES FOR CYBER SECURITY. THEY ARE NOT INVESTING IN THE CYBER SECURITY DEFENSIVE STRUCTURES THAT THEY NEED TO BE PUTTING IN PLACE. MANY OF WHICH ARE HIGHLY EFFECTIVE. THERE ARE STAND ANDZ, PRACTICES, TECHNOLOGIES THAT COULD PROTECT MANY OF THESE SITES. THEY'RE SIMPLY NOT INVESTING IN THEM.

>> Brown: IS THAT CORRECT IN YOUR EXPERIENCE THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO INVEST? EVEN AFTER WE SEE SOMETHING WITH GAWKER, OF COURSE, THAT'S JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.

>> IT'S A QUESTION OF INVESTMENT, A QUESTION OF PRACTICES. TO SOME EXTENT IT IS A QUESTION OF TECHNOLOGY. TO SOME EXTENT THIS TECHNOLOGY IS JUST NOT SECUREABLE. SO THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE AN ELEMENT OF RISK. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S NICE ABOUT THESE DENIAL OF SERVICE ATTACKS IS THAT....

>> Brown: EXPLAIN THAT.

>> DENIAL OF SERVICES, AS WE HEARD, IS PEOPLE LAUNCHING HUNDREDS OR THOUSANDS, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF MESSAGES AT A COMPANY TO THE POINT WHERE THEIR COMPUTER ON THEIR RECEIVING END IS OVERLOADED AND CRASHES. THAT'S AN AVOIDABLE PROBLEM. THAT'S A PROBLEM THAT PEOPLE HAVE FIGURED OUT HOW TO BEELT. WHEN YOU SEE SOMEBODY FALLING PREY TO DENIAL OF SERVICE ATTACK THAT MEANS THEY HAVEN'T BEEN PAYING ANY ATTENTION FOR THE LAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS.

>> Brown: LET'S TALK ABOUT COMPANIES. WHAT SHOULD THEY BE DOING.

>> COMPANIES HAVE TO TAKE THIS A LOT MORE SERIOUSLY. THE DENIAL OF SERVICES THE LOW END OF THE THREAT. THE HIGH END OF THE THREAT IS ESPIONAGE OR SABOTAGE. WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF ESPIONAGE. FOR DENIAL OF SERVICE AS FOR ESPIONAGE YOU HAVE TO SAY AM I DOING THE BASIC HYGIENE THINGS? AM I MAKING SURE MY SYSTEMS ARE PATCHED? DO I HAVE A RISK MANAGEMENT PLAN? HAVE I PUT IN PLACE THE TECHNOLOGIES THAT WILL LET ME TRACK WHO IS TRYING TO DO WHAT TO MY NETWORK? ALL OF THIS IS OUT THERE. IN FACT, THE WHOLE WIKILEAKS THING WITH D.O.D., WITH THE RIGHT TECHNOLOGIES WE COULD HAVE AVOIDED WIKILEAKS. THIS IS A PROBLEM MAYBE OF WILL, MAYBE OF INCENTIVES. BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS FIXABLE IF WE CAN GET OUR ACT IN GEAR.

>> Brown: YET YOU'RE SAYING WHEN YOU GO TO A LOT OF COMPANIES JUST SAY THIS IS LAST ON OUR LIST AFTER MARKETING AND VARIOUS OTHER THINGS?

>> WELL, IF YOU'RE A SMALL BUSINESS YOU WANT ONE THING WHICH IS TO BECOME A BIG BUSINESS. A THIRD OF OUR MAJOR CORPORATIONS ARE INVESTING ADEQUATELY IN THIS. IN TWO THIRDS OF AMERICAN BUSINESSES, INVESTMENT IN CYBER SECURITY IS ACTUALLY GOING DOWN. I THINK JIM IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. WE NEED TO PUT IN PLACE A 21st CENTURY PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN GOVERNMENT AND INDUSTRY SO THAT WE GET THE PROPER INCENTIVES PUT IN PLACE TO EXPAND THE PERIMETER OF CYBER SECURITY AND THAT WAY WE DON'T HAVE TO BE TRAINING OUR GRANDPARENTS TO UPDATE THEIR TRIGGER ACCOUNTS PROPERLY.

>> Brown: WHAT ABOUT THE HACKERS? I MEAN, WE REFER TO THIS PHRASE NOW AS HACK-IVISTS DO YOU SEE THEM THAT WAY? AS PRANKSTERS OR WORSE? HOW ORGANIZED IS THIS ALL?

>> ONE OF THE NICE THINGS ABOUT THE INTERNET IS IT LETS VIRTUAL COMMUNITIES SPRING UP. IT CAN BE VIRTUAL COMMUNITIES OF PEOPLE INTERESTED IN THE SAME KIND OF DOG OR IT CAN BE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN THE SAME KIND OF NUTY POLITICAL CAUSE. IT EMPOWERS THEM BOTH. SO WHAT WE'VE GOT NOW ARE GROUPS THAT SHARE VIEWS WIDELY DISTRIBUTED AROUND THE GLOBE. AND HAVE A TECHNOLOGY THAT WILL LET THEM EXPRESS THEIR OPINIONS. WE'VE SEEN THIS IN ESTONIA AND ALL THE TIME IN ASIA. IT'S A NEW FORM OF POLITICS. IT'S LIKE THOSE ANARCHISTS WHO COME AND DEMONSTRATE IN FRONT OF THE IMF EXCEPT THESE TIMES THEY CAN HIDE BEHIND THE INTERNET. THEY CAN MAKE A LOT MORE NOISE, DO A LOT MORE DAMAGE.

>> Brown: DO WE KNOW MUCH ABOUT HOW ORGANIZED THEY ARE AS GROUPS? I MEAN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GAWKER, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE WIKILEAKS.

>> YEAH, THEY'RE VERY ORGANIZED. ACTUALLY THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS ORGANIZED CRIME. THE ORGANIZED CRIMINAL SYNDICATES, PARTICULARLY IN EASTERN EUROPE AND IN CHINA, ARE THE ONES WHO ARE PROVIDING THE BASIS FOR A LOT OF THIS NEFARIOUS BEHAVIOR. WE GET A LOT OF ATTENTION PAID TO THE HACK-IVISTS WHICH GENERATE ATTENTION BUT THE REAL INSIDIOUS THREAT ARE THINGS LIKE THE ADVANCED PERSISTENT THREAT WHICH UNLIKE A HACK-IVIST ATTACK LIKE WE'RE SEE ING WITH THE WIKILEAKS IS NOT DESIGNED TO GENERATE ATTENTION. IT'S DESIGNED TO GET INTO A SYSTEM SO YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT IT'S THERE AND IT QUIETLY STEALS NOT ONLY PERSONAL DATA BUT CORPORATE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY, NATIONAL SECRETS, ET CETERA. THIS IS VERY, VERY ORGANIZED. IT'S DRIVEN BY THE ATTEMPT TO MAKE MONEY.

>> Brown: QUIET.

>> VERY, VERY QUIET.

>> Brown: THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE DON'T DISCUSS USUALLY. WE DON'T HEAR ABOUT THEM. JIM LEWIS AND LARRY CLINTON, THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH.

>> Ifill: NEXT, THE CONTINUING FALLOUT FROM THE BERNIE MADOFF STORY AND THE MULTIBILLION DOLLAR PONZI SCHEME HE SET UP. RAY SUAREZ HAS OUR UPDATE.

>> Suarez: THIS WEEKEND MARKED TWO YEARS SINCE MADOFF WAS ARRESTED AND THE WORLD LEARNED OF HIS GRAND FRAUD, ONE THAT MAY HAVE ULTIMATELY COST INVESTORS MORE THAN $50 BILLION IN WEALTH. IT TURNED OUT TO BE A WEEKEND OF STUNNING NEWS. ON SATURDAY, ONE OF MADOFF'S SONS, MARK MADOFF, WHO WORKED FOR HIS FATHER, WAS FOUND DEAD AFTER HE HANGED HIMSELF. SATURDAY WAS DEADLINE FOR LAWSUITS TO RECOVER MONEY SATURDAY WAS ALSO THE DEADLINE FOR FILING CIVIL LAWSUITS, TO RECOVER MONEY PAID OUT OVER THE YEARS BY BERNIE MADOFF. NEARLY A THOUSAND SUCH SUITS HAVE BEEN FILED. AND MARK MADOFF WAS ONE OF SEVERAL FAMILY MEMBERS NAMED AS A DEFENDANT IN THOSE SUITS, WHICH ARE BEING BROUGHT THROUGH THE COURT'S BANKRUPTCY TRUSTEE. DIANA HENRIQUES HAS BEEN COVERING THE STORY FROM THE BEGINNING, AND IS WORKING ON A BOOK ABOUT THE CASE. SHE JOINS US FROM NEW YORK. DIANA, AS THE DEADLINE GREW CLOSER, DID THE SUITS START TO PILE UP? DID THE PACE OF FILINGS INCREASE AS SATURDAY APPROACHED?

>> IT CERTAINLY DID. NOT ONLY FILINGS OF LAWSUITS BUT ANNOUNCEMENTS OF SETTLEMENTS AHEAD OF THAT DEADLINE. IT ALMOST SEEMED LIKE WE WERE GETTING TWO AND THREE MAJOR STORE STORIES A DAY, SUBSTANTIAL LAWSUITS FOR 100 MILLION, 200 MILLION, A BILLION DOLLARS, SETTLEMENTS OF HALF A BILLION DOLLARS. 600 MILLION DOLLARS. IT WAS QUITE A WEEK ACTUALLY. IT ENDED WITH A GRAND FLOURISH ON FRIDAY WITH A MAJOR LAWSUIT SEEKING NEARLY $20 BILLION IN DAMAGES FROM A WHOLE ASSORTMENT OF DEFENDANTS HEADED BY A VERY FLAMBOYANT AUSTRIAN BANKER. IT WAS QUITE A WEEK. I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING QUITE LIKE IT.

>> Brown: HOW MANY FILERS ARE TRYING TO GET A SHARE OF WHATEVER MONEY IS LEFT?

>> WELL, THE WAY THE MONEY IS BEING DISTRIBUTED IN BANKRUPTCY COURT IS A LITTLE ARCANE. IT BEARS A LITTLE EXPLANATION. THE ONLY PEOPLE AT PRESENT WHO ARE ELIGIBLE TO SHARE IN WHATEVER CASH THE TRUSTEES ARE ABLE TO GATHER ARE PEOPLE WHO PUT MORE CASH INTO THE PONZI SCHEME THAN THEY TOOK OUT. THAT IS PEOPLE WHO HAVE A NET CASH LOSS. THOSE PEOPLE WILL SHARE IN WHATEVER ASSETS CAN BE GATHERED. BUT PEOPLE TYPICALLY LONG-TIME INVESTORS WITH BERNIE MADOFF WHO OVER THE YEARS HAD TAKEN OUT MORE THAN THEY HAD PUT IN, THINKING THEY WERE WITHDRAWING LEGITIMATE PROFITS, THOSE PEOPLE DON'T HAVE A CLAIM AGAINST THIS MONEY. ANOTHER SET OF INVESTORS IN SORT OF A LIMBO ARE PEOPLE WHO INVESTED INDIRECTLY THROUGH ONE OF THESE GIANT FEEDER FUNDS WE'VE HEARD ABOUT. THE FEEDER FUND MAY HAVE A CLAIM BUT IT'S NOT CLEAR THAT THE FEEDER FUND'S INVESTORS DO. AND WHERE THAT FEEDER FUND IS IN LIQUIDATION OR IN THE CARIBBEAN OR IS SOMEHOW DEFUNCT, THEIR STATUS BECOMES MORE UNCERTAIN. THOSE ARE ISSUES THAT THE COURTS ARE GOING TO BE GRAPPLING WITH WELL INTO NEXT YEAR.

>> Suarez: HAS THE TRUSTEE ENDED UP GOING TO SOME UNEXPECTED EVEN SURPRISING PLACES TRYING TO RECOVER FUNDS?

>> WELL, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME INTERESTING SMALL LAWSUITS TO RETRIEVE MONEY LEFT IN BANK ACCOUNTS IN GIBB RAL TAR. THE TRUSTEE HAS HIRED LAWYERS IN SOMETHING LIKE 12 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES NOW, EVERYWHERE FROM THE BRITISH ISLANDS TO AUSTRIA TO IRELAND, ENGLAND AND LUXEMBOURG, OF COURSE. THERE'S AN ENORMOUS LEGAL PHALANX SPREADING OUT REALLY ALL OVER THE GLOBE TO TRY TO TRACK DOWN PEOPLE WHO WITHDREW CASH FROM THIS PONZI SCHEME BEFORE IT COLLAPSED. IT'S AN EXTREMELY ELABORATE LITIGATION EFFORT.

>> Suarez: AS WE MENTIONED EARLIER ON THE SAME TWO-YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF THE CRIME BERNIER ARD MADOFF'S SON MARK WAS FOUND TO HAVE KILLED HIMSELF. WAS MARK MADOFF NAMED AS A RESPONDENT IN A LOT OF THESE LAWSUITS?

>> HE WAS A DEFENDANT. HE, HIS BROTHER, UNCLE AND COUSIN HAD ALL BEEN SUED LAST YEAR BY THE TRUSTEE IN THEIR CAPACITY AS OFFICERS AND EXECUTIVES OF HIS FATHER'S BROKERAGE FIRM. THE TRUSTEE SUED HEM TO RECOVER COMPENSATION AND BONUSES AND INVESTMENT GAINS THAT THEY HAD RECEIVED OVER THE YEARS. WHICH THE TRUSTEE CLAIMED WERE PART OF MADOFF'S ILL GOTTEN GAIN. THAT LAWSUIT WAS MAKING ITS WAY THROUGH THE COURTS. AND THEN MARK WAS SUED AGAIN MORE RECENTLY AS PART OF THIS LATE RUSH FOR HIS ROLE AS A DIRECTOR IN MADOFF'S LONDON- BASED AFFILIATE. APPARENTLY EVEN MORE TROUBLING TO HIM HIS CHILDREN, WHILE NOT NAMED INDIVIDUALLY, WERE SUED BY THE TRUSTEE A FEW WEEKS AGO BECAUSE SOME OF THE MONEY THAT MOVED THROUGH THE PONZI SCHEME WOUND UP IN TRUST FUNDS FOR THEIR BENEFIT. THAT HAD APPARENTLY BEEN VERY UPSETTING TO HIM ON TOP OF ALL OF THE OTHER ANGUISH AND ANGER THAT ACCOMPANIED THIS ANNIVERSARY.

>> Suarez: WITH HIS DEATH HAVE THE INVESTIGATIONS ON EITHER THE CRIMINAL OR CIVIL SIDES LOST AN IMPORTANT SOURCE OF INFORMATION? SOMEONE WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN USEFUL MOVING FORWARD?

>> WELL, IT'S VERY HARD TO TELL. OBVIOUSLY WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION IS GOING. THERE HAVE BEEN MORE THAN HALF A DOZEN INDICTMENTS, ALL BUT TWO... ALL BUT THREE OF THOSE INCLUDING MADOFF HIMSELF ARE PENDING TRIAL. THE DEFENDANTS HAVE INSISTED ON THEIR INNOCENCE. THOSE CASES WILL MOVE FORWARD. BECAUSE IT'S NOT CLEAR THAT MARK WOULD HAVE KNOWN ABOUT ANY OF THOSE CRIMES, CERTAINLY THERE WAS NO INDICATION FROM THE GOVERNMENT WHATSOEVER THAT THEY THOUGHT HE DID, HE PROBABLY WAS NOT GOING TO BE A WITNESS THERE. HOWEVER, THERE REMAINS THE POSSIBILITY THAT OTHER SENIOR EXECUTIVES, NAMELY HIS UNCLE PETER, MIGHT FACE CRIMINAL CHARGES. THE PROSECUTORS HAVE SAID THAT HE IS THE SUBJECT OF A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION. HIS LAWYER INSIST HE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT THE FRAUD. BUT IF THAT CASE HAD GONE TO TRIAL IT WAS POSSIBLE THAT MARK WOULD HAVE BEEN A WITNESS IN THAT JUST ABOUT THE INNER WORKINGS OF THE FIRM. BUT I THINK... I DON'T THINK THAT HIS DEATH IS A GREAT SETBACK FOR THE INVESTIGATION ALTHOUGH IT IS OF COURSE A GREAT TRAGEDY FOR HIS FAMILY.

>> Suarez: DIANA HENRIQUEZ, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS.

>> Brown: NOW THE LATEST ON THE PRESIDENT'S PROPOSED TAX CUT CAN DEAL. IN WASHINGTON TODAY, THE SENATE TOOK IT UP FOR THE FIRST TIME, AN OPENING MOVE THAT COULD LEAD TO BOTH HOUSES OF CONGRESS APPROVING A BILL BY THE END OF THE WEEK. THE $858 BILLION TAX CUT DEAL BROKERED BY PRESIDENT OBAMA AND CONGRESSIONAL REPUBLICANS FACED A CRITICAL TEST VOTE THIS AFTERNOON.

>> ON THIS VOTE, THE YEAHS ARE 83, THE NAYS ARE 15. THREE FIFTHS OF THE SENATORS DULY CHOSEN AND SWORN, HAVING VOTED IN THE AFFIRM TIFF, THE MOTION IS IS AGREED TO.

>> Brown: THAT TALLY MEANT THE BILL HAD CLEARED THE 60-VOTE THRESHOLD TO LIMIT DEBATE TO SET UP A VOTE ON FINAL PASSAGE WHICH IS EXPECTED TO COME THIS WEEK AND POSSIBLY AS SOON AS TOMORROW. PRIOR TO THE VOTE, SENATE REPUBLICAN LEADER MITCH McCONNELL URGED PASSAGE.

>> DEMOCRATS IN WASHINGTON HAVE ARGUED THAT THE SOLUTION TO OUR NATION'S ECONOMIC PROBLEMS IS TO GIVE BUREAUCRATS IN WASHINGTON TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND THEN HAVE THEM SPEND IT FOR US. BUT WITH THIS BIPARTISAN COMPROMISE, WE'RE TAKING A DIFFERENT APPROACH. WE'RE TELLING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO KEEP MONEY THAT'S RIGHTFULLY THEIRS SO THEY CAN SPEND IT AND INVEST IT AS THEY PLEASE.

>> Brown: THE MEASURE VOTED ON TODAY WOULD PRESERVE THE BUSH ERA INCOME TAX BREAKS FOR TWO YEARS, EXTEND JOBLESS BENEFITS THROUGH 2011, CUT SOCIAL SECURITY PAYROLL TAXES BY 2% FOR ONE YEAR, AND SET A TOP RATE OF 35% ON A NEW ESTATE TAX. COLORADO DEMOCRAT MARK UDOLL OPPOSED THE PLAN ARGUING IT WOULD EXACERBATE THE COUNTRY'S DEFICIT PROBLEM.

>> IT IS A TIME BOMB IN OUR MIDST THE TICKING OF WHICH WE CANNOT IGNORE UNLESS WE ARE COMFORTABLE KNOWING IT WILL EVENTUALLY BLOW UP ON OUR CHILDREN.

>> Brown: THE PATH FORWARD IS MURKIER IN THE HOUSE WHERE DEMOCRATS UPSET OVER THE TAX BREAKS FOR THE WEALTHY VOTED LAST WEEK TO BLOCK THE COMPROMISE FROM COMING TO THE FLOOR. STENY HOYER SAID HOUSE DEMOCRATS MAY TRY TO MAKE CHANGES BUT HE CONCEDED THE BILL WOULD ULTIMATELY PASS. HE SPOKE AT THE NATIONAL PRESS CLUB IN WASHINGTON.

>> I BELIEVE THAT INCREASING THE TAX LOAD ON WORKING AMERICANS AT THIS POINT IN TIME ON JANUARY 1 WOULD NOT BE HELPFUL TO CONTINUE TO GROW THE ECONOMY. AS A RESULT, WE DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT HAPPEN. IN ORDER NOT TO SEE THAT HAPPEN, YOU NEED TO GET A BILL THROUGH CONGRESS. AND SIGNED BY THE PRESIDENT. WE'RE WORKING ON THAT. THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS IS A PROCESS OF GIVE-AND-TAKE. I THINK THAT'S GOING TO OCCUR.

>> Brown: LATE THIS AFTERNOON AT THE WHITE HOUSE, PRESIDENT OBAMA WELCOMED THE PROGRESS.

>> ONCE THE SENATE COMPLETES ACTION ON THIS BILL, IT WILL MOVE OVER TO THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES FOR ITS CONSIDERATION. I'VE BEEN TALKING WITH SEVERAL MEMBERS OF THAT BODY. I RECOGNIZE THAT FOLKS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM ARE UNHAPPY WITH CERTAIN PARTS OF THE PACKAGE. AND I UNDERSTAND THOSE CONCERNS. I SHARE SOME OF THEM. BUT THAT'S THE NATURE OF COMPROMISE. SACRIFICING SOMETHING THAT EACH OF US CARES ABOUT TO MOVE FORWARD ON WHAT MATTERS TO ALL OF US.

>> Brown: A NEW PEW RESEARCH POLL RELEASED MONDAY SHOWS 60% OF AMERICANS APPROVE OF THE AGREEMENT WITH 22% AGAINST IT. IN ADDITION TO CALLING INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS OF CONGRESS THE PRESIDENT HOPED TO GIVE THE PROPOSAL AN ADDED BOOST TODAY BY TOUTING ITS MERITS IN INTERVIEWS WITH LOCAL TELEVISION AFFILIATES IN FOUR KEY BATTLE GROUND STATES.

>> Brown: FINALLY TONIGHT, A NEW POLITICAL ORGANIZATION TRIES TO TONE DOWN THE PARTISAN RHETORIC ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE. JUDY WOODRUFF HAS THAT STORY.

>> Woodruff: REPUBLICANS, DEMOCRATS, AND INDEPENDENTS WITH A COMMON GOAL TO MAKE POLITICS LESS POLARIZED ARE JOINING FORCES TO CREATE A CENTRIST GROUP CALLED NO LABELS. THE GROUP BILLS ITSELF AS A "NEW WAY OF LOOKING AT POLITICS." THE NATIONAL GRASS-ROOTS COALITION PLANS TO PRESSURE THE NEWLY ELECTED CONGRESS TO WORK ACROSS PARTY LINES. WE ARE JOINED NOW BY TWO OF THE GROUP'S FOUNDERS, MARK McKINNON, A REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST AND FORMER ADVISOR TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH. AND DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT KIKI McLEAN: SHE SERVED AS SENIOR ADVISOR TO HILLARY CLINTON IN HER 2008 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN. GOOD TO HAVE YOU BOTH WITH US.

>> THANKS, JUDY.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US ON.

>> Woodruff: KIKI McLEAN TO YOU FIRST. I COULD ASK EITHER ONE BUT I'LL START WITH YOU. BOTH OF YOU HAVE BEEN SO DEEPLY INVOLVED IN POLITICS AT OPPOSITE ENDS OF THE SPECTRUM, WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?

>> I'M DOING THIS FOR A LOT OF REASONS. I WANT TO MAKE MY PARTY STRONGER. BUT I ALSO BELIEVE THAT IT'S MY JOB IN MY ROLE AS A MOTHER TO A SIX AND AN EIGHT-YEAR-OLD THAT I CAN SEE THEIR FUTURE. I KNOW THAT THAT FUTURE HAS TO BE ABOUT SOLVING PROBLEMS. WE CAN'T JUST KEEP FLIPPING ELECTED OFFICIALS AROUND EVERY TWO YEARS HOPING IT WILL GET BETTER WHEN WE REALLY NEED A CULTURE CHANGE. WE SAY TO PEOPLE, NO, WHEN YOU DO THE RIGHT THING, WHEN YOU WORK FOR PROGRESS ACROSS THE AISLE WE'RE GOING TO STAND BEHIND YOU AS OPPOSED TO PUNISHING THEM WHEN THEY REACH OUT ACROSS THE AISLE.

>> Woodruff: MARK MacKINNON WHAT'S THE DREAM SCENARIO HERE? WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE HAPPEN IN.

>> WE'D LIKE TO PROVIDE A VEHICLE AND A CHANNEL FOR THE MILLIONS OF AMERICANS WHO TODAY DON'T FEEL LIKE THEIR VOICES ARE REPRESENTED. THEY LOOK AT WASHINGTON. THEY SEE THE HYPER PARTISANSHIP. THEY SEE LOUD MICROPHONES ON THE LEFT, LOUD MICROPHONES ON THE RIGHT. AND NOBODY REALLY REWARDING GOOD BEHAVIOR IN THE MIDDLE. PEOPLE ARE JUST... IN FACT, THEY'RE GETTING PUNISHED WHENEVER THEY TRY AND EXTEND THEIR ARM ACROSS THE AISLE OR WORK IN A BIPARTISAN FASHION. YET THAT'S WHAT MOST OF AMERICA WANTS. AS WE FACE SOME OF THE GREATEST CHALLENGES WE'VE EVER HAD, WASHINGTON IS VIRTUALLY PARALYZED BECAUSE NEITHER SIDE IS WILLING TO WORK WITH THE OTHER SIDE IN ORDER TO MAKE ANY PROGRESS. YOU MENTIONED THIS IS A NEW WAY OF LOOKING AT POLITICS. IT'S ACTUALLY A VERY OLD WAY OF LOOKING AT POLITICS. THIS IS GOING BACK TO TIP O'NEILL AND RONALD REAGAN WHERE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAD A CLEAR DIFFERENCES BUT THEY WERE WILLING TO WORK WITH EACH OTHER, MEET WITH ONE ANOTHER AND TODAY IN WASHINGTON, THEY LITERALLY DO NOT EVEN MEET TOGETHER. THEY DON'T HAVE CAUCUS LUNCHES TOGETHER ANYMORE. IT'S JUST A LOT EASIER TO DEMONIZE EACH OTHER WHEN THAT HAPPENS.

>> Woodruff: KIKI McLEAN, YOU ALSO HEAR PEOPLE SAYING WHAT'S WRONG WITH FEELING STRONGLY, FEELING PASSIONATELY ABOUT ISSUES? THERE'S A LOT AT STAKE. WHY SHOULDN'T WE BE ARGUING THESE THINGS, DEBATING THESE THINGS OUT VIGOROUSLY?

>> PASSION AND PARTISANSHIP IS OKAY. HYPER PARTISANSHIP IS NOT. IF THE GOAL WHEN YOU START A CONVERSATION IS TO MAKE SURE SOMEBODY ELSE LOSES, WE ALL LOSE. THERE'S TOO MUCH OF THAT GOING ON TODAY. LOOK, WORKING TOGETHER DOESN'T MEAN THAT THERE WON'T BE DAYS THAT MARK AND I DON'T DRAW THE LINE IN THE SAND BETWEEN ONE ANOTHER AND HAVE JUST A REAL FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE BUT THERE ARE PLENTY OF THINGS THAT MARK AND I KNOW THAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT TOGETHER. ONE THING WE KNOW IS THAT RIGHT NOW THE CONVERSATION USUALLY BEGINS ON THE FAR OUTSKIRTS OF BOTH PARTIES, ON THE FAR ENDS OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM. YOU KNOW WHAT? IT'S REALLY A HARD WAY TO FIND A WAY TO WORK TOGETHER IN THAT MIDDLE WHERE YOU CAN BEGIN TO MOVE FORWARD IF THAT'S WHERE IT BEGINS. ONE OF THE THINGS NO LABELS IS GOING TO DO IS GIVE LIKE-MINDED PEOPLE A PLACE TO GATHER SO THAT WE CAN BE A VOICE THAT CAN BE HEARD TOGETHER. I WANT TO MAKE SURE AND I THINK ALL THE PEOPLE THAT WERE HERE IN NEW YORK WITH US TODAY 1100 OF THEM FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR LEADERS WHETHER CONGRESSIONALLY IN A GOVERNOR'S MANSION, A CITY COUNCIL KNOW THAT WHEN YOU DO THE RIGHT THING, WHEN YOU PICK SOLUTIONS OVER YOUR OWN POLITICAL FUTURE WE'RE GOING TO BE BEHIND YOU. MILLIONS OF AMERICANS WILL BE THERE FOR YOU.

>> Woodruff: MARK MacKINNON I HEARD YOU SAY TODAY THAT THE REST OF THE COUNTRY IS NOT AS POLARIZED AS WASHINGTON. YET I'LL TELL YOU QUITE CANDIDLY I WAS AROUND THE COUNTRY COVERING SEVERAL SENATE RACES THIS YEAR. THIS IS ANECDOTAL BUT I FOUND PEOPLE PRETTY PARTISAN IN THEIR VIEWS. THAT'S AN ANECDOTE BUT LOOK AT THE POLLS. A NEW PEW POLL CAME OUT JUST A DAY OR SO AGO THAT SAYS WHAT IS IT 43% OF DEMOCRATS THINK THE PRESIDENT SHOULDN'T COMPROMISE WITH REPUBLICANS. 60% OF REPUBLICANS DON'T THINK REPUBLICANS SHOULD COMPROMISE. WHY DO YOU THINK THE PUBLIC WANTS THE TWO TO WORK TOGETHER?

>> WELL, JUDY, I JUST SAW A POLL THAT SAID THAT 67% OF AMERICANS ENDORSED THE ENTIRE PACKAGE WHEN THEY LOOK AT THE PACKAGE IN TOTAL. I THINK THIS IS A GREAT EXAMPLE WHERE YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES COMPLAINING ABOUT THE FINAL PRODUCT. THAT'S WHAT PRESIDENTIAL LEADERSHIP IS ALL ABOUT. IT'S ABOUT FORGING CONSENSUS AND COMPROMISE. THAT NEVER MAKES EVERYBODY HAPPY. BUT, YOU KNOW, I LOOKED OUT AT AMERICA AND SURE THERE WAS PARTISANSHIP IN THE PRIMARIES BUT THE FACT IS THAT MOST AMERICANS WOULD LIKE TO SEE A VOICE FOR THE MIDDLE THAT REPRESENTS THEIR POINT OF VIEW. THEY ARE PASSIONAL TOO, JUDY. MAIK NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT. THERE ARE RADICAL CENTRISTS OUT THERE, A LOT OF THEM.

>> Woodruff: KIKI McLEAN WE LOOKED AT WHO WAS INVOLVED TODAY. DEMOCRATS, INDEPENDENTS, FORMER ELECTED REPUBLICANS. NO CURRENT REPUBLICANS. WHAT DOES THAT SAY?

>> I THINK IT SAYS WE HAD A GOOD MIX OF FOLKS THERE TODAY. WE HAD FOLKS WITH A LOT OF POINTS OF VIEW. A ROOM WITH 1100 PEOPLE THAT ALSO HAD A LOT OF LOT FROM ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM AND TRND THE COUNTRY. I THINK IT SAYS THAT THIS IS A STARTING POINT FOR A CONVERSATION. TODAY WAS A LUNCH, A KICK-OFF. WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING IT GROW AS WORD SPREADS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> Woodruff: MARK MacKINNON, YOU ARE A REPUBLICAN. WHAT ABOUT THAT?

>> LISTEN. WE HAD GREAT REPUBLICANS THERE. DAVID GERGEN, DAVID BROOKS, TOM DAVEs. A LOTS OF FOLKS INTERESTED IN MAKING SURE THAT WE WORK TOGETHER. THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN PART OF THE PROCESS, SEEING WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOESN'T. EVAN BUY IS AN OUTGOING MEMBER. JOE MANCHIN AN INCOMING MEMBER. LOTS OF REFLECTIONS ON WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOESN'T. I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYBODY THAT DISAGREES THAT IT'S MORE HYPER PARTISAN AND MORE POISONOUS THAN IT'S EVER BEEN. THAT'S GOT REAL LONG-TERM CONSEQUENCES. THAT'S NOT THE BEST WAY TO MOVE FORWARD.

>> Woodruff: YOU SAY KIKI McLEAN IN JANUARY YOU'RE GOING TO START POLICING MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IF THEY DON'T WORK TOGETHER. ARE YOU GOING TO FEEL PRESSURE TO CRITICIZE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE SPECTRUM? IF ONE SIDE ENDS UP BEING MORE PARTISAN THAN THE OTHER, ARE YOU GOING TO CALL IT LIKE YOU SEE IT?

>> WELL, THIS ISN'T ABOUT A TALLY COUNT. IT'S NOT JUST NEGATIVE REREINFORCEMENT. THIS IS ABOUT POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT. THE CURRENT CULL... CULTURE IS THAT HE WE BEAT UP ON PEOPLE ALL THE TIME. MARK AND I BLOGED LAST WEEK WITH OUR COLLEAGUE, AN INDEPENDENT, PRAISING SENATOR COBURN WHO SAID GENEROUS THINGS AND REFUSED TO TAKE THE BAIT AND CRITICIZE PRESIDENT OBAMA WHEN THE REAL CONVERSATION NEEDED TO BE ABOUT ISSUES. WE'LL CONTINUE TO DO THAT AS WELL. BUT THERE'S NO TALLY COUNT GOING ON HERE. THIS IS REALLY ABOUT WHAT IS BEST FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. AND WHAT KIND OF POSITIVE ACTIONS OUR LEADERS ARE GOING TO TAKE.

>> Woodruff: MARK MacKINNON, THE OTHER QUESTION IS PEOPLE HAVE TRIED TO DO THINGS LIKE THIS IN THE PAST. HOW DO YOU KEEP THE PASSION GOING FOR WHAT YOU'RE DOING IN THE CENTER? PEOPLE GENERALLY GET WORKED UP ON ONE SIDE OF AN ISSUE OR ANOTHER. BUT HOW DO YOU KEEP PEOPLE EXCITED ABOUT THE GOOD OLD MODEST MIDDLE, IF YOU WILL?

>> WELL, I LIKE TO CALL IT RADICAL CENTRIST. I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING MODERATE ABOUT PEOPLE IN THE CENTER THERE. THEY'RE VERY, VERY PASSIONAL. THESE ARE ISSUES I'VE WORKED ON FOR YEARS. I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN SIMILAR KINDS OF EFFORTS BUT IT IS SUBSTANTIALLY DIFFERENT TODAY THAN IT'S EVER BEEN. NOT JUST BECAUSE I SAY THAT. BUT BECAUSE WE'VE GONE ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND I'VE BEEN LOOKING AT THIS FOR YEARS. THERE IS MORE MOBILIZATION, MORE ACTIVITY, MORE ENERGY. THE TEA PARTY WAS ONE PIECE OF THAT. IT SHOWED THE ENERGY THAT'S OUT THERE IN AMERICA BUT IT'S JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG. BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE, MILLIONS OF AMERICANS, I WOULD ARGUE, THAT RESEARCH SHOWS AND ANECDOTALLY THAT IT'S A MAJORITY OF AMERICANS FEEL LIKE THEIR VOICE IS NOT BEING REPRESENTED AND THEY DON'T LIKE THE HYPER PARTISANSHIP. THEY WANT TO SEE OUR PEARS WORK TOGETHER. TO ADDRESS THE INTRACTABLE PROBLEMS WE'RE FACING RIGHT NOW. THEY DON'T LIKE THE PARALYSIS THAT THE PARTISANSHIP CREATES.

>> Woodruff: WE PLAN TO CHECK BACK IN TO SEE HOW IT'S GOING. MARK MacKINNON, KIKI McLEAN, THANK YOU BOTH.

>> WE'LL GIVE YOU A REPORT, THANKS FOR HAVING US ON, JUDY.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Brown: AGAIN, THE MAJOR DEVELOPMENTS OF THE DAY. A FEDERAL JUDGE IN VIRGINIA DECLARED A KEY PORTION OF THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION'S HEALTH CARE LAW UNCONSTITUTIONAL. THE SENATE VOTED TO ADVANCE THE TAX CUT PACKAGE AGREED TO BY PRESIDENT OBAMA AND CONGRESSIONAL REPUBLICANS. AND A WINTER STORM MOVING ACROSS THE UPPER MIDWEST CLAIMED THE LIVES OF AT LEAST 14 PEOPLE. AND TO KWAME HOLMAN IN OUR NEWSROOM, FOR WHAT'S ON THE NEWSHOUR ONLINE. KWAME?

>> Holman: THE STORY ON COMPUTER SECURITY CONTINUES ONLINE. WE HAVE MORE ON HOW THE DATA BREACH AT GAWKER UNFOLDED AND HOW GOVERNMENT E-MAIL ADDRESSES WERE SINGLED OUT FOR POSSIBLE TARGETING. AND FIND OUT WHAT DAVID CHALIAN, JUDY WOODRUFF, AND GWEN IFILL WILL BE WATCHING FOR DURING THE LAST DAYS OF THE LAME DUCK CONGRESS. THAT'S ON OUR WEEKLY POLITICAL CHECKLIST FEATURE. PLUS, AS PRESIDENT OBAMA SIGNED TODAY'S BILL ON HEALTHFUL SCHOOL LUNCHES, WE ASKED STUDENTS FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY TO SEND IN PHOTOS OF WHAT'S ON THEIR LUNCH PLATES. VIEW THEIR SUBMISSIONS ON THE RUNDOWN NEWS BLOG. ALL THAT AND MORE IS ON OUR WEB SITE, newshour.pbs.org. JEFF?

>> Ifill: AND THAT'S THE NEWSHOUR FOR TONIGHT. ON TUESDAY, WE'LL LOOK AT THE GOVERNMENT'S ANNUAL SURVEY OF DRUG USE AMONG TEENAGERS. I'M GWEN IFILL.

>> Brown: AND I'M JEFFREY BROWN. WE'LL SEE YOU ONLINE, AND AGAIN HERE TOMORROW EVENING. THANK YOU, AND GOOD NIGHT. MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY:

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>> PEOPLE DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND WHY THINGS WORK. I WANT TO BE THAT PERSON THAT FINDS OUT WHY. STRENGTHEN OUR COMMUNITIES. EVERY YEAR CHEVRON SPENDS BILLIONS WITH SMALL BUSINESSES. THAT GOES RIGHT TO THE HEART OF LOCAL COMMUNITIES, PROVIDING JOBS, KEEPING PEOPLE AT WORK. THEY DEPEND ON US. THE ECONOMY DEPENDS ON US. AND WE DEPEND ON THEM.

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