PBS NewsHour; February 28, 2011 3:00pm-3:59pm PST

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>> Woodruff: WORLD POWERS MOVED TODAY TO TIGHTEN THE SCREWS ON LIBYAN LEADER MOAMMAR QADDAFI. AS THEY DID, NEW PROTESTS BROKE OUT IN AND AROUND TRIPOLI, AND SECURITY FORCES RUSHED IN TO DISPERSE THEM. BUT QADDAFI, IN AN INTERVIEW WITH ABC NEWS, REFUSED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THERE WERE ANY PROTESTS IN TRIPOLI.

>> THEY LEFT ME ALL. THEY WILL DIE TO PROTECT ME.

>> Woodruff: WE BEGIN WITH A REPORT FROM JONATHAN RUGMAN OF INDEPENDENT TELEVISION NEWS, WHO'S IN TRIPOLI.

>> Reporter: IN A SUBURB OF LIBYA'S CAPITAL AN EXTRAORDINARY ACT OF DEFIANCE. THE LEADER OF THE LAST 41 YEARS IS TORN TO SHRED ARES AND TRAMPLED UNDERFOOT. AND THEN THE FLAG OF COLONEL KHADAFFI'S REVOLUTION IS SET ALIGHT. THIS IS A DIRT POOR DISTRICT WHERE THEY WANT ANOTHER REVOLUTION NOW. PARTS OF THIS AREA ARE NOW BEYOND GOVERNMENT CONTROL. THOUGH FROM A DISTANCE PLAYING CLOSE... PLAIN CLOTHED SECURITY MEN ARE KEEPING WATCH. LAST NIGHT THERE WAS AN ATTEMPT TO REMOVE ALL THE ANTI-KHADAFFI GRAFFITI BUT BY THIS AFTERNOON IT WAS BACK.

>> WHAT THE PEOPLE HERE ARE TELLING US IS THAT THE MAN THEY'RE BURYING WAS SHOT IN THE HEAD DURING DEMONSTRATIONS ON FRIDAY AND HE DIED OF HIS WOUNDS LAST NIGHT. HIS FUNERAL IS EVIDENCE OF THE REVOLT AGAINST COLONEL KHADAFFI BEING WITHIN THE CITY OF TRIPOLI ITSELF, WITHIN THE CAPITAL. WHAT PEOPLE ARE TELLING US IS THAT THEY WANT THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TO DO SOMETHING TO HELP THEM. THEY SAY COLONEL KHADAFFI IS CRAZY. THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO NEXT. THEY'RE WORRIED HE WILL KILL AND KILL AND KILL JUST TO SAVE HIS REGIME.

>> HE DOESN'T CARE HOW MANY PEOPLE HE'LL KILL. JUST HIMSELF. HE WANTS HIMSELF AND CONTROL OF LIBYA.

>> Reporter: IT SEEMS MORE JUSTIFIED BY THESE PICTURES OF THE COLONEL'S SON CLUTCHING AN ASSAULT RIFLE. THE VIDEO IS BELIEVED TO HAVE BEEN RECORDED YESTERDAY. MR. KHADAFFI IS ON TOP OF A VEHICLE AND RALLYING HIS SUPPORTERS. THE GOVERNMENT IS HANDING OUT NOT WEAPONS BUT MONEY. $400 A FAMILY. WHAT ONE MAN CALLED KHADAFFI'S LAST ROLL OF THE DICE TO KEEP HIS PEOPLE ON SIDE. THE SUPPORT FOR THE COLONEL IS GENUINE. DO YOU BELIEVE THE NEWS THAT LOTS OF LIBYA HAS GONE OUT OF THE CONTROL OF KHADAFFI?

>> WELL, I DON'T THINK SO. I DON'T THINK SO BECAUSE ALL OF THE LIBYANS LOVE MOAMMAR KHADAFFI.

>> Reporter: ALL OF THEM?

>> YEAH.

>> Reporter: THE GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN HAS THE SAME MESSAGE BUT THERE HAS BEEN NO RECKLESS VIOLENCE AGAINST CIVILIANS BUT THAT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS COULD DIE IN A CIVIL WAR PROVOKED, HE SAYS, BY ISLAMIST MILITANTS AND THE WEST.

>> THE ISLAMISTS LOVE CHAOS BECAUSE THEY THRIVE ON DISORDER AND WANT TO HAVE THEIR MEDITERRANEAN AFGHANISTAN AND LIBYA HALF AN HOUR AWAY FROM EUROPE.

>> Reporter: YET THIS AFTERNOON THESE GRAFFITI ARTISTS ON THE OUTSKIRTS OF TRIPOLI GAVE US A VERY DIFFERENT MESSAGE. THAT THEY HAVE BEEN SHOT AT BY THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT AND THAT KHADAFFI MUST GO.

>> Brown: IN HIS ABC INTERVIEW TODAY, QADDAFI LAUGHED WHEN HE WAS ASKED IF HE WOULD STEP DOWN VOLUNTARILY. AND 30 MILES AWAY, A LARGE PRO- GOVERNMENT FORCE MASSED NEAR THE TOWN OF ZAWIYAH WITH TANKS AND ANTI-AIRCRAFT GUNS. FARTHER EAST, OPPOSITION FORCES IN MISRATAH FOUGHT OFF NEW ATTACKS BY TROOPS LOYAL TO QADDAFI. THE LIBYAN GOVERNMENT ALSO ANNOUNCED IT WOULD SEND AN ENVOY TO BENGHAZI-- NOW HELD BY REBELS-- WITH A SHIPMENT OF FOOD AND MEDICINE. WE HAVE A REPORT ON THE SITUATION IN BENGHAZI. FOR SAFETY REASONS, WE ARE NOT NAMING THE CORRESPONDENT OR THE NEWS ORGANIZATION.

>> VOLUNTEERS, DESERTERS, RETIREES IN THE SERVICE OF THE REVOLUTION. ENTHUSIASM POSSIBLY EXCEEDING SOLDIERING SKILLS. IN BENGHAZI THEY'RE PREPARING AMMUNITION FOR THEIR CHINESE- MADE ANTI-AIRCRAFT GUNS. COLONEL QADDAFI KEPT HIS ARMY ILLY EQUIPMENTED AND FRAGMENTED SO IT COULDN'T STAGE A COUPS OR CHALLENGE HIS REPUBLICAN GUARD IN TRIPOLI. OUTSIDE THE NORTH BENGHAZI COURTHOUSE, THE LEADERS OF THE UPRISING HERE SAY THEY HAVEN'T BEEN IN TOUCH WITH THE U.S. OR ANY OTHER OUTSIDE GOVERNMENT.

>> I THINK THE UNITED STATES SHOULD TAKE CARE OF ITS OWN PEOPLE. WE CAN LOOK AFTER OURSELVES. AS SOON AS WE GET RID OF THIS REGIME WE WANT TO BUILD OUR CIVILIZATION. KEEP YOUR WEAPONS AT HOME. YOU MAY NEED THEM FOR SOMEWHERE ELSE.

>> Reporter: BEHIND CLOSED DOORS THE NEW 20-PERSON COALITION RUNNING THE TOWN MEETS. THEIR MESSAGE TO THE OUTSIDE WORLD, GET QADDAFI.

>> THE WORLD HAS ALREADY SEEN THE CRIMES AND GENOCIDE HE COMMITTED IN BREACH OF ALL INTERNATIONAL LAWS. WE WANT THE WORLD TO DEAL WITH HIM AS A WAR CRIMINAL. HE SHOULD BE ARRESTED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

>> Reporter: BUT HOW? REFERRING HIM TO THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT ISN'T THE SAME AS APPREHENDING OR TOPPLING HIM.

>> IT'S FRIENDLY NATIONS AND NATIONS THAT HAVE THE POWER TO DECIDE SHOULD COME FORWARD TO ASSIST US. ESPECIALLY BY USING THEIR TECHNICAL MIGHT. I ALSO APPEAL TO THE ENTER IN THE COMMUNITY TO ENFORCE A NO- FLY ZONE OVER LIBYA IN ORDER TO PREVENT SOME SOME OF THE NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES FROM SENDING THINGS INTO TRIPOLI.

>> Reporter: TONIGHT SOME FEAR THAT COLONEL QADDAFI COULD ATTACK BENGHAZI AGAIN BUT THEY RAISED THEIR FLAGS AND TRIED TO ESTABLISH CIVILIAN AND MILITARY CONTROL OF THE TOWN.

>> Woodruff: ON THE INTERNATIONAL FRONT, THE EUROPEAN UNION APPROVED AN ARMS EMBARGO AND OTHER SANCTIONS AGAINST THE QADDAFI REGIME. THE U.S. MILITARY BEGAN MOVING AIR AND NAVAL FORCES CLOSER TO LIBYA. BRITISH PRIME MINISTER DAVID CAMERON CALLED FOR ENFORCING A NO-FLY ZONE AGAINST LIBYAN PLANES. AND IN GENEVA, SECRETARY OF STATE HILLARY CLINTON SAID ALL OPTIONS ARE ON THE TABLE, FROM NO-FLY ZONES TO WAR CRIMES PROSECUTIONS.

>> COLONEL QADDAFI AND THOSE AROUND HIM MUST BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THESE ACTS. WHICH VIOLATE INTERNATIONAL LEGAL OBLIGATIONS AND COMMON DECENCY. THROUGH THEIR ACTIONS, THEY HAVE LOST THE LEGITIMACY TO GOVERN. AND THE PEOPLE OF LIBYA HAVE MADE THEMSELVES CLEAR. IT IS TIME FOR QADDAFI TO GO. NOW. WITHOUT FURTHER VIOLENCE OR DELAY.

>> Brown: THE U.S. TREASURY ALSO ANNOUNCED IT HAD FROZEN AT LEAST $30 BILLION IN LIBYAN ASSETS SINCE LAST WEEK. AND U.S. AID TEAMS WERE HEADING TO LIBYA'S BORDERS WITH EGYPT AND TUNISIA. AN ESTIMATED 100,000 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN STREAMING INTO THOSE REGIONS IN RECENT DAYS. SO FAR, EGYPTIAN AND TUNISIAN AUTHORITIES HAVE PROVIDED THEM WITH SHELTER AND FOOD.

>> Woodruff: MARGARET WARNER HAS MORE ON WASHINGTON'S AND THE WORLD'S RESPONSE TO THE LIBYA REVOLT.

>> Warner: AND FOR THAT, WE TURN TO ROBERT MALLEY, FORMER DIRECTOR FOR NEAR EAST AFFAIRS AT THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL IN THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION. HE NOW HEADS THE MID EAST-NORTH AFRICA PROGRAM AT THE INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP. AND MICHAEL SINGH, WHO HELD THE SAME N.S.C. POST IN THE GEORGE W. BUSH ADMINISTRATION. HE'S NOW A VISITING FELLOW AT THE WASHINGTON INSTITUTE FOR NEAR EAST POLICY. WELCOME TO YOU BOTH. BEGINNING WITH YOU, ARMS EMBARGO. ASSET FREEZES. TRAVEL BANS. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE INTERNATIONAL RESPONSE SO FAR?

>> TWO THINGS. FIRST IF YOU COMPARE THE INTERNATIONAL RESPONSES TO OTHERS IN THE PAST IT HAS BEEN EXTRAORDINARILY QUICK. THAT MAY NOT FEEL VERY GOOD IF YOU'RE SITTING IN TRIPOLI AND YOU HAVE TO ENJOY THE CONTINUED RULE OF QADDAFI. FROM A COMPARATIVE PERSPECTIVE IT'S BEEN EXTRAORDINARILY RAPID. IN PART THAT'S BECAUSE KA QADDAFI HIMSELF HAS VERY FEW FRIENDS. HE IS NOW PAYING THE PRICE FOR ALIENATING HIS FRIENDS. AND ALSO BECAUSE THIS ADMINISTRATION IN PARTICULAR HAD STAFF WHO FEEL VERY STRONGLY ABOUT THIS. THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF AND SOME WHO WORK FOR HIM AND SEE IT AS THEIR LIFE MISSION FROM PREVENTING WHAT HAPPENED IN RWANDA FROM HAPPENING AGAIN.

>> Warner: DO YOU THINK THESE KINDS OF MEASURES THAT HAVE BEEN TAKEN SO FAR WILL PERSUADE QADDAFI THAT HE HAS TO LEAVE?

>> I THINK THAT ROB IS RIGHT. IT HAS BEEN QUICK COMPARATIVELY BUT FOR MANY LIBYANS AND PEOPLE IN THE REGION IT SEEMS VERY SLOW. SIMPLE STEPS LIKE SENDING HUMANITARIAN TEAMS COULD HAVE BEEN ANNOUNCED TWO WEEKS AGO NOW. I THINK THAT THE STEPS ANNOUNCED TODAY ARE GOOD, BUT I THINK THAT WE NEED TO SEE MORE. I DO THINK THAT SOMETHING LIKE A NO-FLY ZONE, FOR EXAMPLE, SHOULD BE PUT IN PLACE BECAUSE YOU HAVE TWO GOALS RIGHT NOW. ONE IS TO PREVENT A HUMANITARIAN CRISIS. THE OTHER IS TRY TO PERSUADE QADDAFI TO STEP DOWN. SOME OF THESE MEASURES THAT WERE DESCRIBED TODAY BY THE E.U. AND BY SECRETARY CLINTON WILL I THINK GET AT THAT QUESTION OF TRYING TO CONVINCE SOME OF THE SENIOR LIBYAN OFFICIALS AROUND QADDAFI THAT THEY HAVE NO FUTURE WITH THIS PARTICULAR LEADER. BUT AS FAR AS THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS GOES, INADVERTENTLY OR PARADOXICALLY SOME OF THESE MEASURES COULD CONVINCE QADDAFI THAT IT'S IN HIS INTEREST TO HOLD ON WITH ALL OF HIS MIGHT. WHAT YOU WANT TO DO IS DETER HIM AND PREVENT HIM FROM USING THOSE MOST SERIOUS HEAVY WEAPONS HE HAS AT HIS DISPOSAL AND THE FOREIGN MERCENARIES BEING FLOWN FROM ELSEWHERE AGAINST THE OPPOSITION.

>> Warner: ONE THING ON THE TABLE IS TO DETER QADDAFI FROM FURTHER KILLING. HOW DO YOU DO THAT?

>> VERY HARD TO DETER HIM. PERSONALLY AS MIKE JUST SAID HE'S SOMEBODY WHO MAY SEE ALL OF THIS AS THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL. IF I'M GOING TO LOSE, I'M GOING TO LOSE BY FIGHTING.

>> Warner: YOU HEARD HIM IN THAT INTERVIEW SAY MY PEOPLE LOVE ME. THEY'LL DIE FOR ME.

>> I THINK ONE OF THE OBJECTIVES IS TO PEEL OFF AS MANY OF HIS SUPPORTERS AS POSSIBLE. THERE'S BEEN A HUGE NUMBER OF DEFECTIONS. YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE ONES KEEPING HIM IN POWER LEAVE AND LEAVE NOW. IF THEY DON'T, THEY'RE GOING TO LOSE IN THE END.

>> Warner: IS THAT A MATTER OF WHAT SECRETARY CLINTON AND AMBASSADOR SUSAN RICE WERE SAYING? BASICALLY THEY'RE THREATENING THOSE WHO WOULD STICK WITH HIM THEY'LL FACE THE CONSEQUENCES.

>> THAT'S PART OF IT. THAT'S PART OF THE SANCTIONS AND THE INTERNATIONAL ACCOUNTABILITY WITH THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT. OTHER THINGS CAN BE CONSIDERED. WE TALK ABOUT MILITARY ACTIONS WHICH ARE ALWAYS SORT OF THE LAST RESORT AND ONE SHOULD CONSIDER THEM IS THE FACT THAT HE CONSIDERS... CONTINUES TO RESORT TO VIOLENCE AND PUTS AT RISK A LARGE NUMBER OF CIVILIANS.

>> Warner: WHAT DO YOU MEAN... MILITARY ACTIONS?

>> THE NO FLY ZONE. IT WAS PERTINENT A WEEK AGO WHEN WE WERE HEARING THAT AIRCRAFT WERE STRIKING CIVILIANS. THE CONFLICT HAS ENTERED A DIFFERENT PHASE WHERE IT SEEMS LIKE IT WILL BE THE REBEL ARMYANCY GOOD FORCES OF QADDAFI. THAT BECOMES MUCH HARDER FOR THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TO INTERVENE MILITARILY.

>> Warner: SHOULD THERE BE ANY HESITANCY TO APPEAR TO BE GOING IN IN SOME WAY ON THE SIDE OF THE OPPOSITION FORCES? I MEAN THAT, ONE, IT'S A SLIPPERY SLOPE. BUT, TWO, IT CAN ALMOST DE LEGITIMIZE THE OPPOSITION IN THE EYES OF ITS PEOPLE IF THEY'RE SEEN AS A SORT OF WESTERN INSTRUMENT?

>> WELL, I DON'T THINK THERE'S MUCH HESITANCY FROM THAT POINT OF VIEW. YOU HEARD ALREADY MANY LIBYANS THEMSELVES CALLING FOR A NO FLY ZONE. YOU'VE HEARD CALLS COMING FROM INTERNATIONAL OFFICIALS AS WELL. HUMAN RIGHTS OFFICIALS. THERE'S PLENTY OF COVER AS IT WERE FOR SOMETHING LIKE A NO FLY ZONE. NOT PER SE DIRECT MILITARY INTERVENTION. I THINK THE HESITATION ON A NO FLY ZONE IS THAT THIS MAY BE AN OPEN ENDED MILITARY COMMITMENT. IN 1991 WE IMPOSED A NO FLY ZONE IN PARTS OF IRAQ. WE WERE THERE FOR QUITE SOME TIME. THAT'S I THINK WHERE THE HESITATION COMES IN. WHERE I MAY DIFFER WITH ROB IS THAT I THINK THAT WE SHOULDN'T ASSUME THAT THE REASONS FOR A NO FLY ZONE ARE SORT OF IN THE PAST NOW. WITH THOSE FORCES SORT OF CLOSING IN LIKE A PINCHER AROUND QADDAFI HE STILL HAS PLENTY OF FIRE POWER AVAILABLE TO HIM AND FOREIGN MERCENARIES FROM AFRICA APPARENTLY. YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE HE DOESN'T THINK HE CAN WIN THIS FIGHT AGAINST THE OPPOSITION.

>> Warner: WHAT ARE THE POLITICS HERE FOR THE EUROPEANS, ROB MALLEY? YOU'VE SEEN THEM ALMOST ONE- UPPING EACH OTHER IN SUGGESTIONS. DAVID CAMERON IS CALLING FOR THE NO FLY ZONE. THE DEFENSE MINISTER TODAY SUGGESTED THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOME, IT'S THE FOREIGN MINISTER, THAT THEY SHOULD WITHHOLD ALL THE PAYMENTS THAT EUROPE MAKES TO LIBYA FOR THE OIL IT IMPORTS. WHAT IS DRIVING THE EUROPEAN RESPONSE?

>> I'M NOT AGAINST A NO FLY ZONE. IT MAY BECOME VERY, VERY IMPORTANT AT SOME POINT. THE EUROPEANS I MEAN THEY HAVE SOME OF THE SAME CONSIDERATIONS WE HAVE. TO ADD TO THAT THEY HAVE THE REAL FEAR OF A MIGRATION CRISIS OF FLOODS OF REFUGEES COMING INTO EUROPE AND WE'VE ALREADY SEEN WHAT HAPPENED IN TUNISIA. THAT'S BEGUN TO HAPPEN. IT COULD HAPPEN AND IT'S HAPPENED IN LIBYA WITH PEOPLE LEAVING LIBYA TO GO TO TUNISIA AND EGYPT AS YOU JUST SUGGESTED. IF ANYTHING THEY REALLY WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS RESOLVED QUICKLY. THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE QADDAFI GO. THEY'D LIKE TO SEE CIVILITY RESTORED BECAUSE OTHERWISE THEIR DIRECT INTERESTS COULD BE AT STAKE.

>> Warner: BOTH IN TERMS OF OIL AND REFUGEES?

>> OIL YES BUT I THINK THE OIL RIGHT NOW I THINK WE'RE SEEING AGAIN IT'S ONE OF THE VERY POSITIVE ASPECTS OF THIS. THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY NOT JUST EUROPEANS AND AMERICANS BUT ARABS AND AFRICANS SEEM TO BE WORKING MORE OR LESS HAND IN HAND. THAT'S PRETTY UNPRECEDENTED.

>> Warner: HOW DO YOU SEE THE EUROPEANS' REACTION HERE?

>> ROB IS RIGHT. ONE ADDITIONAL ANGLE MIGHT BE THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF... MANY CALLS FOR ACTION BEFORE THIS IN THE PRECEDING TWO WEEKS. OF COURSE BOTH THE EUROPEANS AND THE UNITED STATES WERE HESITANT BECAUSE OF THE CITIZENS THAT WE HAD IN LIBYA NEEDING TO GET THEM OUT.

>> Warner: AND THE FEAR THEY COULD BE TAKEN HOSTAGE.

>> THERE COULD BE RETALIATION AGAINST THEM. GIVEN THAT CRITICISM YOU SEE EUROPEAN OFFICIALS AND AMERICAN OFFICIALS FALLING OVER THEMSELVESS TO SHOW THAT THEY'RE TOUGH WITH SOMEONE LIKE MOAMMAR QADDAFI IN LIGHT OF EVERYTHING THAT'S TRANSPIRED THERE.

>> Warner: GIVEN THE SORTS OF THINGS HE'S SAYING INCLUDING THIS INTERVIEW TODAY AND WHAT HIS SONS ARE SAYING, WHO HAS TIME ON THEIR SIDE? FAIRLY BRIEFLY BUT FROM EACH OF YOU ON THIS. IN OTHER WORDS, CAN THE U.S.... IS QADDAFI LOSING GROUND EVERY DAY OR, IN FACT, IS THE MOMENTUM WITH HIM?

>> THIS ONE HE DOES SEEM TO BE LOSING GROUND EVERY DAY. THAT COULD SHIFT BUT THE PROBLEM IS HE MAY STILL BE ABLE TO WAGE A PROTRACTED FIGHT JUST FROM THE HOLDOUT HE HAD IN TRIPOLI AND TRY TO WAGE A WAR OUTSIDE. THAT'S THE BIGGEST DANGER. I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO BE, TO START THINKING AHEAD OF TIME OF WHAT WE DO IF THAT'S THE SCENARIO THAT UNFOLDS AS OPPOSED TO A QUICK OUSTER OF QADDAFI.

>> Warner: A SENSE OF URGENCY, HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK THE WEST OR THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY SHOULD HAVE HERE.

>> A TREMENDOUS SENSE OF URGENCY. THOSE WHO DONS HAVE TIME ON THEIR SIDE ARE THE LIBYAN PEOPLE. ONE PROBLEM THAT WAS POINTED OUT TODAY WITH THE LACK OF HUMANITARIAN ACCESS. WE JUST DON'T HAVE GREAT INSIGHT INTO WHAT'S HAPPENING ESPECIALLY IN WESTERN LIBYA WHERE GOVERNMENT IS STILL IN CONTROL. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CASUALTY FIGURES ARE LIKE. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FOOD AND WATER SITUATION IS LIKE FOR THOSE PEOPLE OR THE MEDICAL SITUATION. SO AS THE DAYS GO BY NOT ONLY INCREASES THE CHANCE OF A VIOLENT CONFRONTATION BUT THERE MAY BE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN DESPERATE NEED THAT REALLY AREN'T BEING ATTENDED TO THERE.

>> Warner: MORE PEOPLE WHO WILL LOSE THEIR LIVES OR COULD LOSE THEIR LIVES.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> Warner: THANK YOU BOTH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Woodruff: STILL TO COME ON THE NEWSHOUR, THE FIGHT OVER SPENDING CUTS; OPTING OUT OF HEALTH CARE REFORM; AND POLITICAL SATIRE, IRANIAN STYLE. BUT FIRST, THE OTHER NEWS OF THE DAY. HERE'S HARI SREENIVASAN.

>> Sreenivasan: PROTESTERS KEPT THE PRESSURE ON SEVERAL OTHER ARAB GOVERNMENTS TODAY. IN THE PERSIAN GULF REGION, PROTESTERS IN BAHRAIN BLOCKED PARLIAMENT AND MASSED AT THE STATE BROADCAST FACILITY, DEMANDING POLITICAL CONCESSIONS. NEXT DOOR IN SAUDI ARABIA, 100 ACADEMICS AND ACTIVISTS CALLED SUNDAY FOR SWEEPING REFORMS, ALLOWING A CONSTITUTIONAL MONARCHY. AND IN OMAN, PROTESTERS WERE OUT IN FORCE FOR A THIRD DAY, AFTER ONE PERSON WAS KILLED ON SUNDAY. IN YEMEN, HUNDREDS OF WOMEN JOINED ONGOING PROTESTS AGAINST LONGTIME PRESIDENT ALI ABDULLAH SALE. HE OFFERED TO FORM A UNITY GOVERNMENT, BUT OPPOSITION LEADERS REJECTED THAT IDEA. ACROSS AFGHANISTAN, FOUR NATO TROOPS WERE KILLED IN ROADSIDE BOMBINGS AND INSURGENT ATTACKS. ONE WAS ITALIAN, BUT THERE WAS NO WORD ON THE NATIONALITIES OF THE OTHERS. A TOTAL OF 34 NATO TROOPS HAVE DIED THIS MONTH IN AFGHANISTAN. THAT'S UP SLIGHTLY FROM JANUARY. THE STALEMATE IN WISCONSIN SHOWED NO SIGNS OF ABATING TODAY. DEMOCRATIC SENATORS AGAIN BOYCOTTED THE LEGISLATURE TO BLOCK A BILL THAT STRIPS PUBLIC EMPLOYEES OF MOST BARGAINING RIGHTS. AND REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR SCOTT WALKER WARNED IF THEY'RE NOT BACK BY TOMORROW, THE STATE MIGHT FACE DEEPER SPENDING CUTS. IN WASHINGTON, PRESIDENT OBAMA DEFENDED PUBLIC WORKERS AT A MEETING OF THE NATION'S GOVERNORS.

>> I DON'T THINK IT DOES ANYBODY ANY GOOD WHEN PUBLIC EMPLOYEES ARE DENIGRATED, VILIFIED, OR THEIR RIGHTS ARE INFRINGED UPON. WE NEED TO ATTRACT THE BEST AND THE BRIGHTEST TO PUBLIC SERVICE. THESE TIMES DEMAND IT.

>> Sreenivasan: GOVERNOR WALKER HAS SAID HE WILL START LAYING OFF STATE WORKERS IN WISCONSIN WITHIN DAYS IF HIS BILL IS NOT PASSED. IN ECONOMIC NEWS, CONSUMER INCOMES ROSE IN JANUARY BY THE MOST IN NEARLY TWO YEARS, THANKS TO A CUT IN SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES. BUT THE COMMERCE DEPARTMENT SAID CONSUMER SPENDING MANAGED ONLY A SMALL GAIN. WALL STREET RALLIED TODAY AMID SIGNS THAT OIL PRICES HAVE STABILIZED. THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE GAINED NEARLY 96 POINTS TO CLOSE AT 12,226. THE NASDAQ ROSE ONE POINT TO CLOSE AT 2782. FORMER OPPOSITION PARTIES IN IRELAND HAVE BEGUN TALKS ON FORMING A NEW COALITION GOVERNMENT. THEY SWEPT TO HUGE WINS IN FRIDAY'S NATIONAL ELECTION, FUELED BY VOTER ANGER OVER IRELAND'S FINANCIAL COLLAPSE. THE LEADER OF THE MAIN CENTER- RIGHT PARTY VOICED OPTIMISM ABOUT REVIVING THE ECONOMY, AS VOTES WERE COUNTED OVER THE WEEKEND.

>> WE STAND ON THE BRINK OF FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE IN HOW WE REGARD OURSELVES, IN HOW WE REGARD OUR ECONOMY, AND IN HOW WE REGARD OUR SOCIETY-- CHANGE THAT WILL REQUIRE A GIGANTIC LEAP, A LEAP OF FAITH IN A TIME WHEN THE IDEA OF HOPE, EVEN THE IDEA OF FUTURE ITSELF, ARE BEING TESTED. THE NEW GOVERNMENT THE NEW GOVERNMENT IS EXPECTED TO DEMAND BETTER TERMS ON ITS BAILOUT BY THE EUROPEAN UNION AND THE INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND. THE LAST SURVIVING AMERICAN VETERAN OF WORLD WAR I HAS DIED AT THE AGE OF 110. FRANK BUCKLES PASSED AWAY SUNDAY AT HIS HOME IN CHARLESTOWN, WEST VIRGINIA. HE ENLISTED IN THE GREAT WAR WHEN HE JUST 16 AFTER LYING ABOUT HIS AGE. LATER, BUCKLES SURVIVED MORE THAN THREE YEARS IN JAPANESE P.O.W. CAMPS DURING THE SECOND WORLD WAR. HE WAS HONORED WITH A WHITE HOUSE VISIT IN 2008 WITH THEN- PRESIDENT BUSH. IN A STATEMENT TODAY, PRESIDENT OBAMA SAID BUCKLES' LIFE "REMINDS US OF THE TRUE MEANING OF PATRIOTISM." THOSE ARE SOME OF THE DAY'S MAJOR STORIES. NOW, BACK TO JEFF.

>> Brown: THE THREAT OF A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN APPEARS TO HAVE EASED FOR NOW AS A REPUBLICAN-BACKED PROPOSAL PICKED UP SOME DEMOCRATIC SUPPORT. NEWSHOUR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT KWAME HOLMAN HAS OUR UPDATE.

>> Reporter: WITH CURRENT FUNDING FOR FEDERAL OPERATIONS SET TO RUN OUT AT MIDNIGHT FRIDAY, CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS SEEMED TO BE COALESCING AROUND A SHORT TERM MEASURE THAT WOULD AVERT A SHUTDOWN. THE PROPOSAL RELEASED FRIDAY BY HOUSE REPUBLICANS WOULD KEEP THE GOVERNMENT RUNNING ANOTHER TWO WEEKS BUT WOULD CUT $4 BILLION IN SPENDING. INCLUDING $2.7 BILLION FROM NEARLY 50 EARMARKS SPENDING DIRECTED BY LAWMAKERS TO HOME STATE PROJECTS. $650 MILLION IN FEDERAL HIGHWAY FUNDS AND $368 MILLION SPREAD ACROSS FOUR DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION PROGRAMS. CONGRESSIONAL DEMOCRATS INITIALLY BALKED AT THE NEW REPUBLICAN PROPOSAL, BUT SOME WARMED TO IT ONCE IT BECAME CLEAR REDUCTIONS WOULD COME FROM CUTS ALREADY INCLUDED IN PRESIDENT OBAMA'S BUDGET FOR THE COMING YEAR.

>> AVERTING A FEDERAL SHUTDOWN. WOULD THE CHAIR....

>> Reporter: THE CHAIRMAN OF THE SENATE BUDGET COMMITTEE DEMOCRAT KENT CONRAD OF NORTH DAKOTA SPOKE YESTERDAY ON CNN.

>> WILL YOU ACCEPT THIS $4 BILLION WORTH OF CUTS OVER TWO WEEKS TO TRY TO GET A LONGER- TERM PLAN? IS THAT ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?

>> IT IS ACCEPTABLE TO ME TO HAVE $4 BILLION AND SAVINGS AND A TWO-WEEK PACKAGE, SURE. THE MAKE-UP THAT, YOU KNOW, IS UP FOR DISCUSSION AND NOR IATIONS. THAT NOTION IS... NEGOTIATION IS ONGOING.

>> Reporter: SENATE REPUBLICAN LEADER MITCH McCONNELL TODAY WELCOMED SIGNS OF INCREASED DEMOCRATIC SUPPORT FOR THE REPUBLICANS' TWO-WEEK SPENDING PLAN.

>> THIS BILL REPRESENTS AN EFFORT TO CHANGE THE CULTURE HERE IN WASHINGTON. IT SAYS LET'S START TO CHANGE THE MENTALITY AROUND HERE. LET'S FIND $4 BILLION THAT ALL OF US CAN AGREE TO CUT AND CUT IT. AND CONTINUE FROM THAT GOOD START. DEMOCRATIC LEADERS IN CONGRESS RESISTED EVEN THIS UP UNTIL A FEW DAYS AGO. NOW THEY'VE STARTED TO SUGGEST THEY MIGHT BE WILLING TO AGREE TO IT. THIS IS PROGRESS.

>> Reporter: AT THE WHITE HOUSE TODAY PRESS SECRETARY JAY CARNEY SAID THE PRESIDENT HASN'T COMMITTED TO SIGNING THE SHORT-TERM BILL JUST YET.

>> THE BILL IS PASSED.

>> Reporter: HOUSE REPUBLICANS ALREADY APPROVED THEIR VERSION OF HOW THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE FUNDED THROUGH SEPTEMBER, THE END OF THE FISCAL YEAR. BUT AS SPEAKER JOHN BOEHNER NOTED AT A GATHERING OF RELIGIOUS BROADCASTERS IN TENNESSEE SUNDAY, DEMOCRATS WERE UNWILLING TO GO ALONG WITH THAT PROPOSAL.

>> THE HOUSE HAS PASSED LEGISLATION REFLECTING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE KEEP THE GOVERNMENT RUNNING THROUGH OCTOBER WHILE CUTTING SPENDING. THE LEADER OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE HAS REFUSED TO ALLOW A VOTE ON THIS LEGISLATION. SO THE HOUSE WILL PASS A SHORTER-TERM BILL THAT WILL ALSO KEEP THE GOVERNMENT RUNNING WHILE INCLUDING REASONABLE SPENDING CUTS AT THE SAME TIME.

>> Reporter: THE HOUSE IS SCHEDULED TO BEGIN DEBATING AND VOTING ON THE TWO-WEEK SPENDING BILL TOMORROW.

>> Woodruff: NEXT, HEALTH CARE REFORM, AND THE LATEST MOVE BY PRESIDENT OBAMA TO DEAL WITH OPPOSITION TO THE LAW. THE PRESIDENT ANNOUNCED TODAY HE SUPPORTS A CHANGE ALLOWING STATES TO OPT OUT OF MAJOR REQUIREMENTS OF THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT AT AN EARLIER DATE. UNDER THE HEALTH CARE REFORM LAW, STATES CAN ASK IN 2017 TO OPT OUT OF REQUIREMENTS TO INCREASE COVERAGE, SUCH AS THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE. THAT'S THREE YEARS AFTER THE INSURANCE MANDATE TAKES EFFECT. BUT PRESIDENT OBAMA TOLD GOVERNORS TODAY HE SUPPORTS A BIPARTISAN BILL IN THE SENATE TO ALLOW WAIVERS EVEN EARLIER.

>> IT WOULD ALLOW STATES TO APPLY FOR SUCH A WAIVER BY 2014 INSTEAD OF 2017. I THINK THAT'S A REASONABLE PROPOSAL. I SUPPORT IT. IT WILL GIVE YOU FLEXIBILITY MORE QUICKLY WHILE STILL GUARANTEEING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE REFORM. IF YOUR STATE CAN CREATE A PLAN THAT COVERS AS MANY PEOPLE AS AFFORDABLY AND COMPREHENSIVELY AS THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT DOES WITHOUT INCREASING THE DEFICIT, YOU CAN IMPLEMENT THAT PLAN. WE'LL WORK WITH YOU TO DO IT.

>> Woodruff: BUT THOSE WAIVERS WOULD NOT NECESSARILY BE GRAED. STATES WOULD HAVE TO PROVE THEY COULD FIND WAYS OF INSURING EQUAL NUMBERS OF NEW AMERICANS FOR SIMILAR COSTS. THE PRESIDENT'S MOVE COMES AMID GROWING COMPLAINTS FROM GOVERNORS ABOUT MEDICAID COSTS. AND SOME REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS ARE CALLING FOR MORE AUTONOMY OVER ELIGIBILITY AND CUTS. KATHLEEN SEBELIUS IS THE SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES. I SPOKE WITH HER EARLIER THIS AFTERNOON. MADAM SECRETARY.

>> HI, JUDY, HOW ARE YOU.

>> Woodruff: I'M WELL. HOW ARE YOU.

>> PRETTY GOOD.

>> Woodruff: THANK YOU FOR DOING THIS FOR US.

>> SURE.

>> Woodruff: CAUSED QUITE A STIR OVER THERE AT THE WHITE HOUSE.

>> I MET WITH TWO OR THREE GOVERNORS THE LAST COUPLE OF HOURS WHO WANT TO DO PROGRAMS THAT BRING ALL THE PRIVATE PAYORS AND MEDICAID AND OTHERS TO THE TABLE, WORK WITH DOCTORS AND PROVIDERS. STATES WANT TO LOOK AT REGIONAL EXCHANGES. THEY'RE LOOKING AT ALL KINDS OF INNOVATIVE WAYS TO COVER EVERYBODY, BUT THEY THEY CAN ACTUALLY LOWER COSTS AND HAVE SOME EVEN MORE EFFECTIVE DELIVERY SYSTEM CHANGES. WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAID TODAY IS THIS INNOVATION WAIVER HAS ALWAYS BEEN PART OF THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT. SINCE IT WAS PASSED. IT WAS NOT SCHEDULED TO START UNTIL 2017. BUT THE MORE WE GOT INPUT FROM STATES AROUND THE COUNTRY WHO WERE EAGER TO ROLL UP THEIR SHREVES AND GET GOING, WHY NOT PUT THIS ON THE TABLE FROM THE OUTSET. WHY HAVE A STATE IN ONE DIRECTION AROUND A KIND OF FORMULATED EXCHANGE ONLY THREE YEARS LATER TO MOVE IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION? SO IF STATES HAVE CREATIVE IDEAS, INNOVATIVE IDEAS THAT, AS YOU SAY, COVER THE SAME AMOUNT OF PEOPLE, HE DOESN'T WANT TO BACK AWAY FROM THE 32 MILLION ADDITIONAL AMERICANS WHO ARE PROMISED HEALTH INSURANCE. IF THEY HAVE MORE CREATIVE STRATEGIES ABOUT WAYS TO MAKE SURE THAT COSTS AREN'T SHIFTED ON TO CONSUMERS OR ON TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, IT ISN'T GOING TO BE A DEFICIT BUSTER, BRING THEM TO TABLE. LET'S FIGURE OUT IF WE CAN MAKE THEM WORK. STATES WANT FLEXIBILITY SO LET'S FIGURE OUT WHAT THE CEOs OF THE COUNTRY WANT TO PUT IN PLACE.

>> Woodruff: WHAT WOULD THIS MEAN, FOR EXAMPLE, FOR THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE? THAT WAS A FEDERAL REQUIREMENT. WOULD THAT BE STILL BE IN EFFECT? WOULD PEOPLE STILL HAVE TO PAY THE PENALTY IF THEY DIDN'T PARTICIPATE?

>> IF A STATE HAS A STRATEGY DIFFERENT FROM THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE THAT THEY THINK WILL COVER THE SAME AMOUNT OF PEOPLE... SO, FOR INSTANCE, THEY COULD COME UP WITH A STRATEGY THAT SAYS WE'RE JUST GOING TO AUTOMATICALLY ENROLL UNINSURED PEOPLE IN VARIOUS PLANS OR WE'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, WORK IT OUT A DIFFERENT WAY. OR WE'RE GOING TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, A DIFFERENT KIND OF... SOMETHING THAT ENCOURAGES PEOPLE TO COME INTO THE MARKET BUT IF THEY DON'T COME IN, HAVE A LARGE BARRIER FOR SEVERAL YEARS, SOMETHING THAT FOLKS WOULD INDEED SEE AS A DRAMATIC ENCOURAGEMENT. WE LOOKED AT ALL KINDS OF WAYS TO BALANCE GETTING RID OF PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS WITH GETTING EVERYBODY IN THE MARKETPLACE BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE TWO FRAMEWORKS THAT HAVE TO BE TIED TOGETHER. IF THERE ARE OTHER WAYS OF DOING THAT, WE'RE EAGER TO SEE WHAT STATES HAVE TO SUGGEST, WHAT INSURERS HAVE TO SUGGEST BECAUSE, AS YOU KNOW, JUDY, THE INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY PIECE REALLY CAME FROM THE PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANIES SAYING WE CAN ONLY GET RID OF THE PRE-EXISTING CONDITION LIMITATION IF THEN WE HAVE EVERYBODY IN THE POOL. IF PEOPLE CANNOT BUY COVERAGE ON THEIR WAY TO THE HOSPITAL OR AFTER THEY'VE HAD AN ACCIDENT.

>> Woodruff: LET ME READ YOU WHAT SENATOR ORRIN HATCH WHO HAS LONG BEEN IMMERSED IN HEALTH CARE LEGISLATION AS I'M SURE YOU KNOW FOR MANY YEARS. HE IMMEDIATELY REACTED AND CALLED THIS A GIMMICK. HE SAID IT DOES NOTHING TO UNDO WHAT HE CALLS THE LAW'S BUDGET BUSTING ONEROUS REQUIREMENTS INCLUDING THE MANDATES WASHINGTON-DICTATED COVERAGE.

>> WELL, I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A LONGER CONVERSATION WITH SENATOR HATCH ABOUT IT. AGAIN, I WANT TO STRESS THAT THIS IS NOT A NEW CONCEPT. IT IS NOT BACKING AWAY FROM THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT. THIS INNOVATION STRATEGY WAS PART OF THE FRAMEWORK IN THE FIRST PLACE. WHAT THE PRESIDENT HAS SUGGESTED IS LET'S MOVE UP THE IMPLEMENTATION DATE. LET'S SAY THIS IS ALSO... THIS IS ONE OF THE OPTIONS AVAILABLE TO STATES IN 2014. SENATOR HATCH CLEARLY HAS SOME OBJECTION TO COVERING ALL AMERICANS AND DOING AT LEAST WHAT THE CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE SAYS WILL BE A FAIRLY DRAMATIC DEFICIT REDUCTION OF A TRILLION DOLLARS OVER THE NEXT TWO DECADES WHILE YOU'RE BRINGING EVERYBODY INTO THE HEALTH INSURANCE POOL. I THINK IT'S A CONCEPT THAT IS MUCH NEEDED IN AMERICA. I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD ON. BUT THE PRESIDENT HAS SAID FROM THE OUTSET IF THEY'RE GOOD IDEAS, REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRATIC, BRING THEM TO THE TABLE. THIS IS ONE HE THINKS LET'S ACCELERATE AND PUT IT IN PLACE FROM THE OUTSET.

>> Woodruff: SECRETARY SEBELIUS, DOES THIS COME BECAUSE THE LAW IS UNDER SIEGE? IT IS BEING... THERE ARE 28 STATES, I BELIEVE, THAT HAVE SUED TO EXEMPT THEMSELVES FROM THE LAW. POLLS SHOW THAT A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF AMERICANS DON'T LIKE THE LAW. IS THIS AN ATTEMPT BY THE PRESIDENT TO RESPOND TO ALL THAT?

>> I THINK, JUDY, WHAT IT IS IS THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS LISTENED TO GOVERNORS. THIS HAS NEVER BEEN THE FEDERAL TAKEOVER OF HEALTH CARE AS HAS BEEN REPORTED INACCURATELY OVER AND OVER AGAIN. IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN A STATE- DRIVEN PROGRAM. WHAT WE HAD GOVERNORS TELL US IN THE BEGINNING IS WE HAVE IDEAS WHICH WE WOULD LIKE TO PUT IN PLACE EVEN MORE QUICKLY. WHY SHOULD WE WAIT UNTIL 017. CAN WE COME TO THE TABLE AND TELL YOU WHAT WE THINK WOULD WORK IN ARKANSAS OR IN NORTH CAROLINA, WHAT WE THINK IS A BETTER STRATEGY? THE PRESIDENT LISTENED TO THAT. AS YOU KNOW, THIS PARTICULAR PIECE OF LEGISLATION HAS BEEN PROPOSED BY A REPUBLICAN SENATOR, SENATOR SCOTT BROWN AND A DEMOCRATIC SENATOR RON WIDEN ALONG WITH A THIRD SENATOR LARRY LANDRIEU. SO IT'S A BIPARTISAN APPROACH SAYING LET'S MOVE UP THE TIMETABLE. LET'S LET INNOVATION BE PART OF THIS STRATEGY FROM THE OUTSET.

>> Woodruff: ONE OTHER THING THE GOVERNORS AS YOU KNOW VERY WELL SAY THEIR MOST IMMEDIATE CONCERN WITH REGARD TO HEALTH CARE COSTS HAS TO DO WITH MEDICAID THE GOVERNMENT PROGRAM COVERING THE POOREST PEOPLE. MORE THAN HALF THE STATES ARE READY TO TAKE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE OFF THE MEDICAID ROLES IF THE GOVERNMENT WILL SIMPLY GRANT THEM THE FLEXIBILITY TO DO THAT. IS THAT SOMETHING THE ADMINISTRATION IS PREPARED TO DO?

>> WELL, JUDY, I THINK THAT NOTHING COULD BE WORSE FOR THE PROSPERITY OF THIS COUNTRY THAN TO HAVE MILLIONS MORE AMERICANS WITHOUT HEALTH COVERAGE. WE'VE SEEN THE TOLL THAT THAT TAKES ON FAMILIES AND ON PERSONAL BUDGETS, ON STATES. THAT IS THE WORST OF ALL OUTCOMES. I THINK WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS REALLY WORK FLEXIBLEY WITH STATES. WE HAVE SENT TEAMS OUT AROUND THE COUNTRY TO LOOK AT IN ARIZONA, IN FLORIDA, IN OTHER AREAS WHAT ARE THE WAYS THAT YOU CAN SAVE ADDITIONAL DOLLARS WITHOUT SLASHING THE BENEFITS OF PROGRAMS? AND WHAT WE REALLY KNOW IS THAT ONE POPULATION WHICH IS A VERY HIGH COST POPULATION IS THE SO-CALLED DUAL-ELIGIBLES. PEOPLE WHO ARE ELIGIBLE FOR MEDICAID BECAUSE OF THEIR INCOME AND ALSO ELIGIBLE FOR MEDICARE. THE PRESIDENT ALSO ASKED GOVERNORS TO COME TOGETHER IN A BIPARTISAN FASHION TO WORK WITH ME ON HOW WE CAN BETTER ADDRESS THE CARE, THE BENEFITS, BUT ALSO THE COST OF THAT POPULATION. I THINK THAT WILL YIELD SOME BIG RESULTS, AS ABOUT 50%. COSTS OF ANYBODY'S MEDICAID PROGRAM AND YET IT'S A FRACTION OF THE BENEFICIARY. SO IT'S A RELATIVELY SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE OVERALL. BUT WITH VERY HIGH COSTS. WE THINK THERE ARE WAY TO DELIVER CARE MUCH MORE EFFECTIVELY AND ALSO DRAMATICALLY LOWER COSTS.

>> Woodruff: WE WANT TO LEAVE IT THERE FOR NOW. SECRETARY SEBELIUS, THESE ARE ALL ISSUES THAT WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO FOLLOW. THANKS VERY MUCH.

>> SURE. NICE TO VISIT WITH YOU.

>> Woodruff: NOW, A REPUBLICAN VIEW OF ALL THIS. IT COMES FROM SENATOR ORRIN HATCH OF UTAH. HE SITS ON THE FINANCE COMMITTEE AS WELL AS THE HEALTH, EDUCATION, LABOR AND PENSION COMMITTEE. SENATOR, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

>> NICE TO BE WITH YOU, JUDY.

>> Woodruff: SENATOR, YOU MAY HAVE HEARD SECRETARY SEBELIUS JUST NOW SAY THAT THIS IS SIMPLY AN ATTEMPT TO LET STATES COME UP WITH THEIR OWN STRUCTURE, THEIR OWN WAY OF PROVIDING COVERAGE AS LONG AS THEY COVER THE SAME NUMBER OF PEOPLE AND THEY DON'T INCREASE THE COST.

>> AS LONG AS THEY CONTINUE TO DO ALL THE OBAMA CARE REQUIRES THEM TO DO. I MEAN, SHE JUST DOESN'T KNOW WHAT SHE'S TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE THIS WAIVER DOES NOT DO ONE THING FOR ANYBODY. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS IF YOU READ THE LAW YOU REALIZE THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO HELP THE STATES AT ALL. THE STATES NOW ARE $175 BILLION IN THE HOLE. THAT WAS BEFORE THIS DOG-GONE BILL. NOW THEY'RE $120 BILLION GOING TO BE ADDED ON TO THEM. YOU'LL NOTICE SHE SAID THAT AS LONG AS THEY MEET ALL THE QUALIFICATIONS OF THE LAW, WHICH THEY CAN'T DO. THEY'VE MOVED 16 MILLION PEOPLE UNDER THE STATE MEDICAID RULES. AND AT THE TIME THE GOVERNMENT DID PUT UP A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY BUT NOW THAT MONEY IS GONE. THERE'S NO WAY THE GOVERNMENT CAN HELP THEM. THE STATES ARE IN AN UPROAR BECAUSE THEY REALLY CAN'T DO THIS. I HAVE TO TELL YOU, THEY HAVE MANDATED THE STATES TO HAVE TO LIVE WITH PROVISIONS THAT REALLY DON'T MAKE SENSE. THIS WAIVER MOVING IT FROM 2017 TO 2014 DOESN'T DO A THING. THE WAIVERS AREN'T GOING TO HELM.

>> Woodruff: AGAIN, SENATOR, WHAT I HEARD AND I MADE SOME NOTES ON WHAT SHE SAID. SHE SAID IF THE STATE HAS A STRATEGY DIFFERENT, FOR EXAMPLE, FROM THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE WHEREIN THEY COULD AUTOMATICALLY ENROLL PEOPLE, SHE SAID IN VARIOUS PLANS OR WORK IT OUT SOME OTHER WAY AND SHE SAID THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO LET THE STATE WRITE THEIR OWN PLAN.

>> ISN'T THAT WONDERFUL? IF THE STATE HAS ANOTHER WAY OF DOING EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT DONE, THEN THE STATE CAN DO THAT. WELL, MY GOSH, I THINK EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE STATES CAN'T AFFORD TO DO WHAT THEY ARE DEMANDING HERE. THEY'RE SAYING IF THEY WANT TO MOVE AWAY FROM THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE. HOW DO THEY DO THAT? THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE WHICH I THINK IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, 28 STATES NOW THINK IT'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL, TWO MAJOR FEDERAL JUDGES THINK IT'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL. FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY THEY'RE GOING TO APPLY THE COMMERCE CLAUSE TO AN INACTIVITY? IT'S ALWAYS BEEN APPLIED TO ACTIVITIES IN COMMERCE. AND IF THEY APPLY IT TO AN INACTIVITY, IN OTHER WORDS, THE DESIRE OF STATE GOLFS AND PEOPLE IN THE STATES NOT TO PURCHASE THIS INSURANCE OR NOT TO PURCHASE THIS HEALTH CARE, IT WILL BE THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY THEY'VE DONE THAT. IF THEY CAN DO THAT, THEY CAN DO ANYTHING TO YOU.

>> Woodruff: AT ONE POINT, SENATOR, WE HEARD THE SECRETARY SAY SHE SAID THAT YOU AND SHE HAVE A VIEW... YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT FUNDAMENTAL VIEW ON WHO OUGHT TO BE COVERED. YOU DON'T AGREE THAT MORE AMERICANS SHOULD BE COVERED. IS THAT ACCURATE?

>> THAT'S WHAT I CALL BULL CORN. I'D LOVE TO COVER EVERYBODY. I'D LOVE TO MAKE SURE NOBODY SUFFERS FROM A LACK OF HEALTH CARE. I'D LOVE TO BE ABLE TO HELP EVERYBODY. BUT THERE ARE SOME ECONOMIC REALITIES THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO REALIZE. AND THE STATES ARE HERE UP IN ARMS. THESE AREN'T JUST REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS UP IN ARMS. THESE ARE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNORS THAT KNOW THAT THEY CAN'T MEET THESE MANDATES, THAT THIS IDIOTIC BILL IS REQUIRING THEM TO MEET. LOOK, I HATE TO BE MEAN TO ANYBODY. I HATE TO TALK THIS WAY BUT IT'S TRUE. IT IS ONE OF THE WORST PIECES OF LEGISLATION IN THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY. IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK. THEY KNOW IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK SO THEY PHONY IT UP WITH THESE, WELL, WE'LL MOVE THESE WAIVERS THAT AREN'T GOING TO WORK. WE'LL MOVE THOSE FROM 2017 TO 2014 BUT YOU HAVE TO MEET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE OBAMA CARE LAW. NOW WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT MEANS? IT MEANS THE WAIVERS AREN'T WORTH THE PAPER THEY'RE WRITTEN ON.

>> Woodruff: SENATOR, YOU DON'T SEE ANY MID GROUND AT ALL ON THIS HEALTH CARE REFORM?

>> YEAH, I SEE A MIDDLE GROUND. THEY OUGHT TO TRASH THE BILL AND GET RID OF IT AND SIT DOWN WITH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WHO REALLY CARE FOR THIS COUNTRY, WHO REALLY WANT TO PUT TOGETHER HEALTH CARE SO IT WILL WORK FOR EVERYBODY. AND LET'S SEE IF WE CAN DO A BIPARTISAN BILL INSTEAD OF THIS TOTALLY PARTISAN BILL THAT WILL WORK IN THIS COUNTRY. AND YOU KNOW THAT'S WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN THEY REFUSED TO WORK WITH REPUBLICANS. ALL 60 DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE HAD TO PASS IT. NOT ONE REPUBLICAN. ALL OF THE DEMOCRATS IN THE HOUSE HAD TO PASS IT. NOT ONE REPUBLICAN. THERE'S GOOD REASONS WHY THE REPUBLICANS DIDN'T SUPPORT THIS BILL. NOW THEY FIND THEMSELVES IN TROUBLE SO WHAT DO THEY TRY AND DO? PHONY IT UP BY SAYING WE'RE GOING TO MOVE THIS WAIVER SITUATION FROM 2017 TO 2014. BUT YOU HAVE TO MEET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS ANYWAY IN THE BILL. I MEAN, MY GOSH, ANYBODY WITH BRAINS WILL KNOW THAT AIN'T GOING TO WORK.

>> Woodruff: I DID SEE, SENATOR, THERE WAS... THERE HAVE BEEN COMMENTS FROM ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS WHO WERE BRIEFING REPORTERS AFTER THE PRESIDENT SPOKE WHO SAID, YOU KNOW, THAT THIS ALLOWS STATES THE FLEXIBILITY TO MOVE IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION. FOR EXAMPLE, IF IT'S A STATE THAT WANTS TO MOVE MORE TOWARD A SINGLE-PAYOR SYSTEM THAT'S ONE THING. OR IF IT WANTS TO MOVE... THEY EVEN USED THE EXAMPLE OF YOUR STATE OF UTAH AND SAID IF THEY WANT TO MOVE IN THE DIRECTION OF WHAT UTAH DOES, WE WANT TO GIVE THEM THE FLEXIBILITY TO DO THAT.

>> WE REPUBLICANS WOULD HAVE MADE SURE THAT THERE WERE 50 STATES LABORATORIES TO BEGIN WITH. SO THAT YOU CAN PICK AND CHOOSE OUT OF THE VARIOUS STATES WHAT REALLY WORKS. UTAH HAPPENS TO HAVE A FAIRLY DECENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. THEY ARE HERALDED BY THE REST OF THE STATES. BY THE REST OF THE COUNTRY. BUT WE'RE HAVING OUR TROUBLES OUT THERE AS WELL. I HAVE TO TELL YOU THE WAY THEY'RE GOING, DOCTORS WON'T BE TAKING MEDICAID PATIENTS. WE ALREADY HAVE 40% OF THE DOCTORS SAYING THAT THEY MAY RETIRE RATHER THAN PUT UP WITH THIS TYPE OF STUFF. AND THEN TALK TO THE GOVERNORS. TALK TO THE DEMOCRAT GOVERNORS. ASK THEM HOW THEY LIKE THESE WAIVERS. ASK THEM HOW THEY LIKE OBAMA CARE. YOU'RE GOING TO FIND THAT THEY'RE BESIDE THEMSELVES.

>> Woodruff: AS A MATTER OF FACT WE DID LOOK FOR SOME QUOTES AND COMMENTS TODAY FROM GOVERNORS. SOME OF THE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNORS SAID THEY ARE INTERESTED IN THIS. THEY IT OPENS THE DOOR. I'M GOING TO QUOTE, YOU KNOW, YOUR FORMER REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUE IN THE SENATE SAM BROWNBACK. NOW THE GOVERNOR OF KANSAS. HE YES HE DOES STILL OBJECT TO THE LAW OVERALL BUT HE SEES WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAID TODAY AS A POSITIVE THING. HE SAID THIS DOES OFFER SOME FLEX INLT.

>> WHEN THE PRESIDENT TALKS, THAT'S GREAT. BUT THE PROBLEM IS YOU HAVE TO MEET THE REQUISITES OF THIS LAW. THE STATES CAN'T AFFORD TO DO IT. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A MAINTENANCE OF EFFORT PROBLEM HERE THAT THE GOVERNORS BOTH DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICANS ARE UP IN ARMS OVER. LOOK, I'D LOVE TO SEE A SYSTEM THAT WOULD WORK. I THINK WE COULD HAVE HAD ONE THAT WOULD WORK. THIS ONE IS NOT WORKING. DON'T THINK THAT THOSE WAIVERS MEAN ANYTHING. THEY REALLY DON'T. READ THE ASSOCIATED PRESS ARTICLE TODAY. THEY BASICALLY SAID THESE WAIVERS AREN'T GOING TO WORK. FRANKLY THEY'RE NOT. THE REASON THEY'RE NOT GOING TO WORK IS BECAUSE THEY'VE PILED ALL THIS STUFF ON TOP OF THE STATES RUN BY NOTHING ELSE BUT THE ALL MIGHTY FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. I KNOW WHAT'SING ABOUT TO HAPPEN IF PRESIDENT OBAMA IS RE-ELECTED WITHIN A COUPLE OF YEARS HE'S GOING TO THROW THIS HIS HANDS IN THE AIR AND SAY THIS ISN'T WORKING. WE MUST GO TO A SINGLE PAYOR SYSTEM. IN OTHER WORDS, A WASHINGTON DETERMINATION COMPLETELY DONE BY WASHINGTON AND IN OTHER WORDS SOCIALIZED MEDICINE.

>> Woodruff: WE DID JUST HEAR SECRETARY SEBELIUS SAY THIS WAS NOT AND IS NEVER INTENDED TO BE A GOVERNMENT, FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER.

>> OH, COME ON. YOU CAN'T LOOK AT IT WITHOUT KNOWING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS THE TOTALLY DOMINANT IN THIS BILL. THAT'S WHY PEOPLE ARE UP IN ARMS.

>> Woodruff: VERY QUICKLY ON MEDICAID. SERVING THE MOST VULNERABLE AMERICANS. THE IDEA THAT STATES COULD THROW SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE OFF COVERAGE ALTOGETHER. THE ADMINISTRATION TRYING TO STOP THAT. WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?

>> WHAT DO THE STATES DO? IF THEY HAVE $175 BILLION IN THE HOLE RIGHT NOW AND THEN THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO COME UP WITH ANOTHER $120 BILLION. THIS IS THE WORST SITUATION SINCE THE DEPRESSION. NOBODY WANTS TO HURT ANYBODY. PEOPLE GOT HEALTH CARE BEFORE. THEY HAD TO GO TO EMERGENCY ROOMS BUT THEY GOT IT. I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD RETURN TO BUT WE COULD HAVE COME UP WITH A BILL THAT WOULD MUCH MORE ECONOMIC SENSE, WOULD WORK BETTER, WOULD HAVE BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS TOGETHER. THAT WAS AN ARROGANCE OF POWER THAT THEY HAD THAT THEY JUST PUT THIS THROUGH THIS WAY. NOW LOOK I DON'T LIKE FINDING FAULT WITH MY DEMOCRAT FRIENDS. I DON'T LIKE FINDING FAULT WITH THE PRESIDENT. I DON'T EVEN LIKE FINDING FAULT WITH SECRETARY SEBELIUS BUT TO BE HONEST WITH YOU WHAT SHE SAID IS, IF YOU READ THROUGH THE LANGUAGE AND YOU READ WHAT SHE SAID YOU'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE TO MEET ALL THE ONEROUS PROVISIONS OF THIS BILL. YOU CAN'T DO IT. THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

>> Woodruff: COMING THROUGH LOUD AND CLEAR, SENATOR ORRIN HATCH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> Brown: AND FINALLY TONIGHT, A VERY UNUSUAL WINDOW ON EVENTS IN IRAN. IN TEHRAN TODAY, THE STATE PROSECUTOR ANNOUNCED THAT AUTHORITIES HAVE CUT ALL OUTSIDE CONTACT WITH THE COUNTRY'S TWO SENIOR OPPOSITION LEADERS. HOUSSEIN MOUSAVI, THE FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, AND MAHDI KARROUBI HAD BEEN UNDER HOUSE ARREST AFTER URGING SUPPORTERS TO ATTEND RALLIES SEVERAL WEEKS AGO. THEIR WHEREABOUTS NOW IS UNKNOWN. ALL OF THESE DEVELOPMENTS ARE BEING CLOSELY WATCHED BY TWO YOUNG MEN HERE IN WASHINGTON, WHO'VE BECOME STARS IN IRAN.

>> Brown: WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF A WEEKLY MIX OF WESTERN ATTITUDE AND PERSIAN CULTURE AND HUMOR. OFTEN ZANY AND SATIRICAL, SOMETIMES STRAIGHTFORWARD AND SERIOUS. HERE THE NEWS ABOUT IRAN IS MOST DEFINITELY NOT WHAT ITS GOVERNMENT PUTS OUT. AN IRANIAN PRESIDENT MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD CAN BE, WELL, THE FUNNIEST GUY ON THE PLANET.

>> WHAT IS IT TO YOU?

>> AS SOON AS THIS GUY OPENS HIS MOUTH WE HAVE THE MATERIAL TO WORK WITH BECAUSE HE DOESN'T MAKE SENSE WHATSOEVER.

>> Brown: SO EACH WEEK 35-YEAR-OLD THIS 35-YEAR-OLD WHO CAME TO THE U.S. A DECADE AGO AND ANOTHER MAN, 37, WHO ARRIVED WHEN HE WAS IN MIDDLE SCHOOL TRIED TO MAKE THEIR OWN KIND OF SENSE BROADCASTING TO IRAN IN FARCI AS PART OF THE U.S.-GOVERNMENT FUNDED PERSIAN NEWS NETWORK.

>> FRANKLY WE DID SOMETHING NEW I THINK. 99.9.9% OF THE NEWS THAT COMES OUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NOTHING FUNNY. IT'S ALWAYS SOMETHING HORRIBLE. AND REPORTING THE NEWS HAS BEEN REPETITIVE. SO WE TURN IT INTO HOW WE WOULD TALK ABOUT IT AS IF WE'RE TALKING TO YOU RIGHT NOW OR SITTING AT A BAR.

>> Brown: INDEED. A REFERENCE TO THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT'S REPEATED ATTEMPTS TO JAM FOREIGN SAT FIGHT PROGRAMMING AND WEBSITES OFTEN TAKES THE "ARE YOU KIDDING ME" APPROACH. AS WHEN SUPREME LEADER AYATOLLAH KHAMENEI SAYS THAT THE UPRISING WAS A REPRIEVE OF THE REVOLUTION.

>> TODAY IN EGYPT THE ECHO OF YOUR VOICE IS HEARD.

>> Brown: AND THE RESPONSE?

>> WHO SAID THAT? WHO TOLD YOU? WHERE HAVE YOU HEARD IT.

>> Brown: THE POINT, HE SAYS, IS THAT LEADERS CAN AND SHOULD BE QUESTIONED.

>> THEY WANT PEOPLE TO BELIEVE THAT THIS IS NOT THEIR VOICE. THIS IS THE VOICE OF GOD. YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IT NOT BECAUSE I SAY IT BUT BECAUSE THIS IS BIGGER THAN LIFE AND BIGGER THAN... WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS HUMANIZE THESE PEOPLE SAYING, LOOK, WATCH, LISTEN. THESE PEOPLE ARE... THEY'RE HUMANS JUST LIKE US. THEY CAN MAKE MISTAKES. YOU ARE ENTITLED TO QUESTION THEM. THEY'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT PROPHETS.

>> Brown: NOW IN HIS SECOND SEASON, IT FEATURES SEVERAL SEGMENTS SOME OUT OF THE JON STEWART PLAY BOOK WHILE FAKE REPORTING IN THE FIELD.

>> Brown: AND THERE ARE INTERVIEWS, SOMETIMES STRAIGHT, SOMETIMES RELAXED. RECENT EVENTS IN EGYPT GAVE THE PAIR A CHANCE TO POINT OUT A FEW DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE COUNTRIES. WITH A BIG WINK OF THE EYE.

>> PEOPLE OF IRAN, DO YOU KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING IN EGYPT? THERE'S AN UPRISING THERE, A REVOLUTION. THEY'RE GOING TO OPEN BARS. WOMEN DON'T HAVE TO WEAR VEILS ANYMORE. HIGH SPEED INTERNET IS BECOMING AVAILABLE.

>> Brown: IN OTHER WORDS NOT SO BAD. THE SURPRISE RESULT THIS CREATION OF TWO SELF-DESCRIBED REGULAR DUDES HAS BECOME ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR PROGRAMS IN IRAN. FOR ITS WATCHED ON SATELLITE TV, ILLEGAL BUT WIDELY USED, AND ON INTERNET SITES SUCH AS FACEBOOK WHICH IS ALSO ILLEGAL BUT WHERE THE PROGRAM HAD CLOSE TO 30 MILLION VIEWS IN THE PAST MONTH. THE SHOW IS A HIT WITH THE IRANIAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY AS WELL. A MATH TEACHER WHO DOESN'T WANT TO SHARE HIS LAST NAME FOR FEAR OF REPRISAL TO HIS MOTHER IN IRAN AND THIS MAN AN I.T.SPECIALIST GET SOMETHING EVERY FRIDAY EVENING IN McLEAN VIRGINIA TO WATCH.

>> I ALSO LIKE THEIR KIND OF ANTI-CENSORSHIP SPIRIT THAT THEY BRING. IT'S HUMOROUS WHAT IS TAKING PLACE IN IRAN AND THE IDEOLOGY IN IRAN IS VERY SOMBER SO COMEDY, SATIRE AND ALL THAT REALLY PUTS A WONDERFUL SPIN TO WHAT'S GOING ON IN IRAN.

>> WHEN I SEE IT POSTED ON FACEBOOK, MY FRIENDS AND RELATIVES, DISTANT RELATIVES IN IRAN, THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU GET THIS SENSE THAT, OH, ALL OF US LIKE THIS SHOW. SO, YES, IT SOMEHOW BRINGS YOU TOGETHER.

>> Brown: FROM IRAN, HIS COUSIN RESPONDED TO OUR QUESTION ABOUT WHY SHE VALUES IT.

>> WHEN HE TALKS YOU FEEL YOU HAVE JUST SEEN HIM IN THE STREET. THE SAME JOKES AND THE SAME PREOCCUPATIONS AS THOSE OF TODAY'S YOUTH IN IRAN. WHAT MATTERS TO US IS IMPORTANT TO HIM TOO.

>> Brown: MORE THAN HALF OF IRAN'S POPULATION IS BELOW THE AGE OF 30. PLAYING TO THEM USING THEIR PHRASES AND SLANG IS CLEARLY PART OF THE SUCCESS. STILL THERE ARE SOME TOPICS THAT REMAIN OFF LIMITS. MOST OF ALL RELIGION. AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF TIMES WHEN IT PLAYS IT STRAIGHT AND SERIOUS AS IN A RECENT INTERVIEW WITH THE BLOGGER WHO ESCAPED IRAN.

>> WERE YOU TORTURED?

>> YES, I WAS.

>> HOW?

>> PHYSICALLY.

>> Brown: ALSO NOT FUNNY THE LATEST CRACKDOWN BY THE GOVERNMENT ON DEMONSTRATORS WHO TOOK TO TEHRAN'S STREETS AFTER EGYPT'S SUCCESSFUL UPRISING. HUSSEINY DEDICATED THAT WEEK'S PROGRAM TO YOUNG YOUNG MEN KILLED DURING THE PROTESTS. ONE OF THEM WAS A FAN AND HAD SHARED THE LATEST SHOW ON HIS FACEBOOK WALL JUST TWO DAYS BEFORE HIS DEATH. ALL OF THIS, OF COURSE, RAISES THE QUESTION: HOW MUCH IS IT OUT TO CHANGE THE WORLD? HERE IS AN ANSWER.

>> WE'RE NOBODYS. WE'RE A BUNCH OF PEOPLE IN FRONT OF TVs THAT PEOPLE HEAR ALL ABOUT. WE JUST DO IT IN A DIFFERENT WAY UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF HUMOR BUT IT'S FOR THE AUDIENCE TO DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES WHETHER THEY LIKE US OR THEY DON'T LIKE US, A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE COME TOGETHER FROM MANY SIDES OF THE OPPOSITION GROUPS, INCLUDING EVEN THE GOVERNMENT, AND THEY WATCH THE SHOW. NOW IF THEY CHOOSE TO CHANGE THEIR MINDS AND SEE THINGS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY THAT'S UP TO THEM.

>> DEMOCRACY.

>> Brown: IN FACT THE GOVERNMENT HAS TAKEN NOTICE EVEN PRODUCING ITS OWN STATE-RUN ANTI-PROGRAM. IT USES SIMILAR TECHNIQUES, SOMETIMES EVEN CLIPS FROM THE SHOW ITSELF WHILE REMINDING VIEWERS THAT IT IS SPORED BY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT AND BRANDING ITS TWO CREATORS AS SPIES. THE TWO CREATORS, WHO ARE BOTH U.S. CITIZENS AND FEDERAL EMPLOYEES, SEEM TO ENJOY THE BACK-HANDED HOMAGE TO THEIR WORK.

>> IT'S TURNED INTO A WAR OF COMEDY. WE DO A SHOW THAT IS, YOU KNOW, AROUND HUMOR. THEY TRY TO COUNTER US WITH ANOTHER FUNNY SHOW.

>> Brown: DO YOU THINK THEY'RE WATCH SOMETHING.

>> I'M SURE THEY'RE WATCHING. THEY'RE SAYING DAMN, THEY'RE GOOD.

>> THIS IS THE DAILY SHOW....

>> Brown: APPARENTLY JON STEWART THINKS THEY'RE DAMN GOOD TOO. HE SALUTED THE PAIR IN A RECENT DAILY SHOW APPEARANCE.

>> I CAN SEE THE PASSION IN WHAT YOU DO. IT'S VERY ENGAGING. WHEN YOU WATCH THE SHOW, YOU FEEL LIKE THE HEART AND THE ANGER. THEN THEY CONSTANTLY CUT AWAY. TO LIKE FOR THE COMEDY BREAK.

>> I'M THE FUNNY DUDE.

>> Brown: WOULD YOU LIKE TO DO THIS PROGRAM IN IRAN?

>> WE'D LOVE TO. WITH THE AUDIENCE AND ALL THAT, THE LIVE AUDIENCE. THE WHOLE SHE-BANG. THAT'S A VERY GREAT MOMENT FOR ME. TO DO THIS. BECAUSE DOING THIS SHOW FROM IRAN MEANING THAT COUNTRY ALREADY BECOMES DEMOCRATIC. AND THEY CAN TOLERATE A SHOW LIKE THIS. THEIR MEDIA. BECAUSE....

>> Brown: IF YOU WENT NOW, IMPOSSIBLE NOW.

>> WE CAN GO. WE JUST WOULDN'T COME BACK.

>> Brown: AND SO FOR NOW IT WILL CONTINUE TO PUSH THE LIMITS OF TEHRAN'S TOLERANCE FROM THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY.

>> Woodruff: AGAIN, THE MAJOR DEVELOPMENTS OF THE DAY. SECURITY FORCES IN LIBYA BROKE UP NEW PROTESTS IN TRIPOLI AND THREATENED TWO OTHER CITIES NOW IN REBEL HANDS. MOAMMAR QADDAFI INSISTED THE LIBYAN PEOPLE LOVE HIM. HE TOLD ABC NEWS, "THEY WILL DIE TO PROTECT ME-- ALL MY PEOPLE." GOVERNMENTS IN BAHRAIN, OMAN, AND YEMEN FACED NEW PROTESTS AND DEMANDS FOR REFORM. AND PRESIDENT OBAMA TOLD U.S. GOVERNORS THAT PUBLIC EMPLOYEES SHOULD NOT BE "VILIFIED" IN A BID TO CUT STATE SPENDING. AND TO HARI SREENIVASAN, FOR WHAT'S ON THE NEWSHOUR ONLINE. HARI.

>> Sreenivasan: WATCH MORE OF JEFF'S INTERVIEW WITH "PARAZIT" HOSTS KAMBIZ HOSSEINI AND SAMAN ARBABI ON ART BEAT. AND ON THE LIBYA STORY, OUR SITE FOR STUDENTS AND TEACHERS, NEWSHOUR EXTRA, HAS A LESSON PLAN ON THE ROLE OF TECHNOLOGY IN RECENT UPRISINGS IN AFRICA AND THE MIDDLE EAST. PLUS ON THIS WEEK'S POLITICAL CHECKLIST, POLITICAL EDITOR DAVID CHALIAN TALKS WITH JUDY ABOUT THE ONGOING DEBATE IN WISCONSIN OVER COLLECTIVE BARGAINING, AND THE DETAILS BEHIND THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN STOPGAP. ALL THAT AND MORE IS ON OUR WEB SITE, newshour.pbs.org.

>> Woodruff: AND THAT'S THE NEWSHOUR FOR TONIGHT.

>> Woodruff: THAT'S THE NEWSHOUR FOR TONIGHT. ON TUESDAY WE'LL LOOK AT THE CONGRESSIONAL SHOWDOWN OVER SPENDING CUTS. I'M JUDY WOODRUFF.

>> Brown: AND I'M JEFFREY BROWN. WE'LL SEE YOU ONLINE, AND AGAIN HERE TOMORROW EVENING. THANK YOU, AND GOOD NIGHT. MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY:

>> OIL COMPANIES MAKE HUGE PROFITS.

>> LAST YEAR, CHEVRON MADE A LOT OF MONEY.

>> WHERE DOES IT GO?

>> EVERY PENNY AND MORE WENT INTO BRINGING ENERGY TO THE WORLD.

>> THE ECONOMY IS TOUGH RIGHT NOW, EVERYWHERE.

>> WE PUMPED $21 MILLION INTO LOCAL ECONOMIES, INTO SMALL BUSINESSES, COMMUNITIES, EQUIPMENT, MATERIALS.

>> THAT MONEY COULD MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE TO A LOT OF PEOPLE. MOVING OUR ECONOMY FOR 160 YEARS. BNSF, THE ENGINE THAT CONNECTS US. PACIFIC LIFE-- THE POWER TO HELP YOU SUCCEED. AND BY TOYOTA. AND BY THE ALFRED P. SLOAN FOUNDATION. SUPPORTING SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY, AND IMPROVED ECONOMIC PERFORMANCE AND FINANCIAL LITERACY IN THE 21st CENTURY. AND WITH THE ONGOING SUPPORT OF THESE INSTITUTIONS AND FOUNDATIONS. AND... THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING. AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU. Captioning sponsored by MacNEIL/LEHRER PRODUCTIONS Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org "THE ELECTRIC COMPANY" IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY... FIND YOUR VOICE AND SHARE IT, AMERICAN GREETINGS, PROUD SPONSOR OF "THE ELECTRIC COMPANY." AGREEMENT FROM THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION'S READY TO LEARN GRANT, AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU, THANK YOU. you try your best to win a contest or a game. Score -- the score is the number of points made by each team in a game. Equal -- when things are equal, it means you have the same amount. Add -- when you add numbers, you put them together. Penalty -- if you break the rules in a game, you get a penalty, and you have to give something up. So we have compete, score, equal, add, and penalty. Watch out for them in today's show. ♪ (chuckling) Marcus, would you do the honors? Sure! ♪ I can't believe I'm actually gonna get to compete this year! Oh no, I just remembered something. What? Before you can join The Electric Company team, there's a very important question I must ask you, okay? What is your favorite number? Easy, 5! I mean 22. No, no, 6. Who doesn't love 18?