1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-10-03; Part 5 of 5

it's been years the office is part of the privileged communications issues a nation of the attorney at the time which was to fielding was co chair here and now to pay bill

the office looked at my watch over the tenth most european most feeling of yourself my recollection we re post our cages come out relating to our nation's ministry under mr dean read through that to me i live on a paragraph by paragraph and we discussed the truth or falsity i'll know at the end of that every time there's a brief discussion about me making a statement a writing up a statement to be considered the next day for release

act i mean in the beginning my feeling was in the car here in washington and at which time i went in and checked and under another name and they waited and the quality of data and then i went back to that well in the end went from a fire next morning was just there the next morning i heard a priest the feeling that a lie he had to

prepare now mostly allegations something was set to evacuate he yet taken back in the white house i don't really recall what it was in foreign policy it's time pressure and iran over the state corrections system i believe well

spain is it something to the effect that the media people decided that things will die on their own volition rather than making whatsoever in those injuries it didn't happen and there was a discussion to some about going back out west los angeles area and then

decided to travel by train and i do give them not in as much detail yes twenty sixteen jt

as we could the reason applause do you feel about and why the information that you're going to miss having a feeling in the previous that trouble again

any answer that question is that a post article contains many allegations that were in fact not true to their workers many truths and a truce in that article that's a mistake essentially it is you know

it's a lot before in the nineteen seventies those reviews my own shorthand way of making this true i believe in that context it was mr harbaugh don't read in human beings are stronger and women you're doing well you were a lot of service that we're going to be a billion

dollars i denied and anytime invasion and a determined that there were low level officials placed on the false confession i was a crime he says the current without any question i didn't i don't think that in those terms of that particular time i read through of the ozone wasn't salacious among muslims yeah that's right we just didn't think of those things i think it raised that we got caught up in the seal of the activity in the

ceiling campaign in these things were not done with any forethought this i don't think we need until season characterizing anything improper but the things that just being picketed at a rally or something i don't believe that certainly them you know

oh yeah so many things i get at this point in time writes i've stayed in many times before his committee today that they had no place in the american political system i don't believe the pranks as such producers are having human services to report that you will you know allow oh yes

neeley wells humor as an acceptable an attitude that they were certainly there should be some sunlight in humor and wide and then i'm the first one to say that that there should be a word i don't believe many of these things they are still classified in other contexts as humor is funny and i should be it should be president now you do yes yes

senator i was assigned a canadian newspaper story from the very me and everything in it changing the eritrean changing trains in philadelphia and see my picture on the front page to go up to chicago and see my picture on the front page out there and that's not what you're talking to reporters at that period of time that's correct rowe would've been difficult for me to honestly didn't i put to me and in what really be put in that position was the fact that it would be extremely embarrassing to president nixon obviously the election was upon us her on the scene and i thought it was just the best broadcaster as to their status it and he was lucky

i like that well yeah it has to do with these two thousand the sound room and given that you about how to do humans well here and mr he's been the peaks

you're welcome no i don't and that was it residents in the nineteen nineties maybe it is inevitable any questions i think the

seventies good morning now as it is right now you're right it's possible

the money that's a danger like that right the minus twenty eleven now yes i did and the mob

senator again reiterates specifically discussed with misogyny his legal rights and remembering senator makes it really a partial answer questions but we also have this conversation within the attorney client privilege and i believe that he would testify that he was consulting with the ending in that capacity the population in the nineteen

nineties i didn't realize that it means many listeners may twenty sixteen yes

said something to the fact that he might be the parameters and the inquiries he seemed to be particularly concerned about mr khan bought name coming out all right yes that's essentially it i said

ok you know a yes yes low pressure the headless the reason behind something behind the scenes go into them all well i have to look upon upon my perspective now i believe the questions they asked relating to watergate burglary and the wiretap were full and complete i think they had they did an adequate job well there was that great discussion with mr silbert prior which did not going at the j o n and during my

testimony before the grand jury and nothing was asked by the us attorney the early nineteen sixties there was no jury no in the very first year i think he was nineteen so

awesome the grand juror asked me out questions relating to those individuals and i am i remember dating this election i have not seen a grand jury transcript to the airports there was a question that grand jury regarding mind financial arrangements when his allies mainly see and i it was mr carlock in the last summer's c they gave only be as best i can recall and i don't the somme work with last

year i don't believe it will that's true i don't think there was something i was engaged in egypt as well no details years before

you're right striving hard against the best of my knowledge and in this case of that had an idea on the activities that i engaged in and the problem probably thought oh this is pure speculation and i was engaged in the show is to deprive type activities the main am i really don't i

don't believe he did thank you that was mentioned i can say limited our recollection of the victims when you love me i know i know yes

i knew about those individuals identities to ms geneva ii mr strouse singing oh the us is trying to destroy you know i just i don't believe in the assumption that model no i didn't yes

yes i believe it is one of our main yes i had the impression that he had not taken such trip one time say why it was there was a reference to that i believe that he over a can or whatever whether i had sufficient funds to stay myself until election night one idea and that was in that right that was after every turn right in my residence after

election years you know i don't recall answer and make sure the record straight and i understood you produced answers after the meeting about to attempt as i understand it went to a hotel missiles cities are correct that's correct and that you'd meet witnessed the union on october eleventh if those basic idea was the next day he came by with a little girl you know i've done mr feeling became violent that mr dean came by later the day of my memories about the lovers he has wanted to leave

on i don't know that's my best recollection of miss piggy and then and then guess what was a nation was a seventy years ago so that was my impression is when an affidavit for you seemed to be a statement in which they can use religion obviously a signature line i think it does

at now correlate to that recounts at usc six law which is distributing are causing the republican unauthorized campaign literature another were not properly attribute it to the source and so i would've actually reacted and they had taken the fifth amendment at some point i just you were not really do that

i don't know so it's you do get a certain activities within the company throughout the only one now and it was the information in the questions is i will live on in for a medical cooperation show full cooperation no no

thank you senator that's right it was necessary in the future i am today well i suppose this is the time senator i think i also like to thank both mr lenz dentist electorates in decline of course that has been very kind to us over the past few months it the committee will stand in

recess so it had a political operative donald's great yachting came over as this moves by tight or is even as the funny prankster justin man confessing to having committed what he once thought or college days finding games which nobody now things are funny all well professor richard small club lesser of political science at american university here in washington is with me now for small cook teaches a course on political campaign management and is director of the institute of alleged administration one of the things that you're an expert on dirty tricks nine committing them ahmad one out quickly but in studying them and where do great and his tricks that in historically at least in this whole business of dirty tricks historically gym their latest in a long line i'd say that he was much more successful in the execution districts and most and he differs from many of the others in their districts were aimed at the organization's of the opposition as opposed to the electorate in general facilities trucks were not aimed at the general electorate

throughout the whole campaign well for instance he made that point and is in the same question a senator ervin was making about that the letter presents in florida involving senators jackson and humphrey what it was about seventy two seventy letters i wasn't trying to really get that that story over is not going to get that what he was trying to do was distraught the relationship between the democratic candidate is trying to get them are still suspicious toward each other and he was successful in that i think there's no doubt about it tough question pat buchanan his testimony last week nancy grace testimony again today does raise the question even more buchanan raised it specifically in his testimony about where that fine line is drawn between what constitutes a dirty trick and a good clean hard nosed politics where would you go i think each case would be judged on its merits that some things for example the distribution of unidentified literature

that is illegal and yet sometimes it's that's actually cameras i think for example of the literature that was circulated the representative about one thousand dollar bill you may recall that and it served the usual thousand the mcgovern promised or something like that i'd identified by party resource but yet it had an element of humor and you can accept that and the other hand oh when you liable somebody or you distribute the red menace limited basis seventy or so letters accusing adds that centers of sexual misconduct i think this is clearly something that should be a rather serious crime i think it's much more seriousness with monetary or under the direction of an attorney and it's something for which certainly should be punished severely the biggest thing about this kind of action is not effective as an established politicians such as the center of listener jackson because these men can take but what it does to the pope can show candidate who sees this kind of personal smear and recognizes that a person's going in public white might have to put up with that as a result as i

don't have any part of that sort of them support assistance but you raise a very interesting question though possibly should be all professional humorist american should make the decision because what you're saying this if it's funny it's all right if not funny it's now i don't know because the one thousand other governor bill for example was funny money if it didn't say anywhere what the exact issue was that made no attempt to produce an opinion it was given him in this in sorrow so it is in a humorous that i think it probably has some political effect a reinforced people's attitudes toward that particular concept that reality and one would dubey hard pressed to say that this was a part of political piece and the one used their presence or reputation or saving oceans as he did with shirley chisholm if she had spent time in most asian region this is really pretty far it stop preachers there

was against them for these for these two particular acts well is his hangout circulars that are not about the fine arts organization or sons scurrilous are untrue comments throughout the difficulty is that in a lot of difficulties trying to enforce the law a because it's very it's because very difficult to trace back to the person who did these get distributed in the dark of night do you agree with what you said that you felt that it's having testified in the senate hearings today on that and harmful to him personally but the whole exposure of what he did they had a cleansing effect as far as dirty tricks and politics are concerned i think that's right i think the exposure is good but on the other hand i think he was successful and i do believe but people tend to fall practices which are successful i would not look for the mission of preachers and future of myself and i think i would advise anybody going to put the

campaigns that they should guard against that would entice them that are due them now i do think politician has to do them on no i don't think so in fact i think in many cases human rights activist there were prematurely they're far out of proportion to be a benefit you can get from that nobody has yet says that troops might be why republicans burglarized the what the watergate apartments that great national day what's the reason for doing it and i can't believe that there is anything that the bin with the rest of the major exposure to come back which is at the very beginning in terms of political tricksters and there've been a lot of them at the local level as well as a national a little bit of that widely publicized that you would say so great was a very successful or at least add accomplished what he set out to do right thank you very much right up to this point in the hearings mostly oldies we heard we've heard about happened all republicans of my counsel fred thompson told peter capture the day's session that this might change send your estimate the head of a

bombshell witnesses the memo who's a banjo innocent thousand troops and that's the image that with the notion of work to the situation has been go to the professor and the cia job is one is having people involved and a singer those increases and think that you have a family still in an interview that the famous democratic particularly in a van and a veil in public session organized this and we have a surprise this week of the war until monday i think that the committee republican green and said it was a little too for that particular week on nothing like my contamination clues as to whether or not from now we will do things which can also be a tribute to a political candidate and his organization are things that have been done could vote against another candidate but not direct incredible

eventually fort lewis the federal relief a lot of course you could be drawn out of us about a conservative and less ozone have witnesses affidavits is the german state of the races will be taking them on their statements an affidavit for not being that we could package part of where what we haven't done that that those are going to be decided and when you have an ongoing investigation like this original purpose that's what you're to summarize the witnesses presumably if we're going to talk to you also decide whether to call them personally or they'll take evidence and it promised to exactly what the commander of the first notes we knew there will be a republican

it's an investigation that campaign activities campaign what most popular is the watergate and that lasts past the schoenfeld has been another one wanted it that abuse so disappointed so some witnesses were permitted from stuff standpoint returned another committee on recruiters have skills of the committee i would have been very surprised disappointed that happens i think that you shouldn't care of so okay we can and will be back tomorrow night and every night is the committee proceeds with its investigation of dirty tricks democratic as well as republican for our guest actress margo or impacting peter kay i'm jim lehrer thank you and goodnight from washington you've been watching gavel to gavel videotape coverage of the hearing of the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities this program was made possible by grants from the corporation for public

broadcasting and the ford foundation is about a production of unpack that a vision of a greater washington educational telecommunications association the pope it's b