1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-08-07; Part 4 of 6

the piece be monday that an unidentified source yesterday sunday april fifth the situation one of the things that this group used to identify the source him being an end is that one of the prosecutors on sunday april fifteenth about the elder mr ellington receive this committee within state i don't want to comment on that and the

responsible people of the justice the first ballot that we ever get a break in a doctor l words like that thank you questions very patiently it which they do they're doing

thank you something's chairman thank you very much and also do not have other questions that might might have previously markup thanks to mr klein danger is cooperation first testament don't think it's very helpful and is a one word about the question now is goldman expanded about executive privilege i know with great adversity disagreement between and the mission attorney general you can eat

before we have these days there are reasons for it now finally separation be decided by the supreme court she just has a lot of young

lawyers mm hmm you're welcome boy i know that i have the attorney general of the united states and as an officer of the department of justice that had a case before judge burns it would have been highly improper or only two are a prosecutor in the presence of the attorneys on the other side regardless of what the situation where they're not the same restrictions will apply

a personality because the mission was very limited and very specific that had nothing to do with a case i think there's generally speaking because of the nature of a very calmly involvement of the administration and the department of justice and its you know its controversy is i mean you just because i can imagine circumstances under which he would ever commit himself anyway if we're with the administration states

any questions you're welcome i think roll them as an agent of the president stated pursuing and objectivity that direction and i don't know that we find to be in that situation and said oh

wow i don't consider myself appeared anybody i think reagan was under the authority and jurisdiction of the office of the attorney general were you in a position to direct them more given that i believe so when i have done so many a responsibility to report things for sure but he also have responsibilities to discharge i have nothing but compliments and first inning the department has a fifty thousand employees seventeen divisions i have that great quite frequently he attended our staff lesson every friday noon and you also senator he was going to be the deputy attorney general under five and

that's the way i was in the fourth grade it was never a question or a recommendation recommendations this giant versions of mine for the us to go the instructions to receive from fish for us as he did he told me that on the evening of april twenty fifth the night before he withdrew as the acting director joe in the headlines as the first time i ever heard about situations that you think you should have told listeners he received those

instructions i think you made one mistake sure we were mississippi fbi investigation situation this is well known as dean paul was degraded can stop investigation into the culvert

analysis of it mr peters no seriously i know that it would have come to me and i think i have an idea and as much as that kind of an incident didn't occur i don't think that i know about it where it was regarded as a serious interference with our work as attorney general manager law mr ken khachigian can use its cgi watching it again in his testimony said the best pitching in the report which in the

demonstrations well in activities were carried out under the guidance of asians of the opposition party were that for four a half years responsible for the coronation of the efforts of exactly regulating demonstrations in the senate more information about me this investigation i was everywhere that president during the campaign was together make an appearance in los angeles

the reason i became aware when i was out there speaking myself speech canceled that the president is going to be there and i think in the headquarters of our scientists was used by some to organize a demonstration against the president's appearance of all sects i think that's realistic appalachian state and i think that the president was planning right thank you i have no further

question it's breaking feelings it was a development worker i think we could've had a contest on which one of us you know the most irritated i don't know whether i quit testify whether he had any prior knowledge of that was not my habit to interrogate the united states session i'm robert siegel briefly with the president

mr erlichman about know our position on this desire to do everything possible to convict mr ellsberg of the crimes that we elected our complaint that i never had any money to interfere with me and that anybody do that and i don't recall any conversation you called on the president to western progress report on health workers are getting in touch with mr martin get in touch with the president this being the information

many teachers it's so let the unmistakable including an innovative nineteen attitude about dot com it's funny you know your definitions state to protect individual the foundation i think it is true that the individual is in port each once each one is important for more important science or an anonymous letter

and yet it seems to me for example this exchange with the committee quite this defeated you have an eye and i feel exactly will the fact that president has information which involves a freedom of someone such as the taste might relate to a particular individual or my constitutional confrontation between the committee in an executive branch information violate individual human being

generational my attitude was biking one of the men in pakistani politics over twenty fourth nineteen seventy two meeting with richard holmes at which certain records of the ceo richard overview yes sir i did and what you do with those returns with at least and after all means that that silver request of the cia to supply information to use and i have no objection to giving that state's attorney's office however i would like to deliver to you personally so that you could

pass the ammunition to the us attorney's office that some of the material that the it was revealed after the mission the cia he played to come into my office the next day he came in with his general counsel then as soon as he got there i called and i came up and i explained the situation and in an age of the animal left to go to his office with mr houston see general counsel of the cia and better and i have a very warm friendly relationship state for a couple minutes and chatted and he liked that so i know that your records show through contacts in early nineteen seventy three with this year he was working for the inauguration committee i intended opposed to my opponent during the inauguration a party for everybody who's here from arizona

and i was talking about that period of time to get assistance and help him to make that you report on one of the watergate defendants and it's possible the new cd i talked to mr peterson yesterday to see if he can recall and i now remember that at a lunch that i get there i think there are several matters to discuss that question came up as to the procedures of sentencing what happened they were just talking about what happens when somebody is convicted of a crime how sentences meted out

what is the probation report what happens when you go to jail when nobody eligible for a time when circumstances arise technical procedures procedures that came with it because in case you early morning hours of april fifteen i believe you indicated that no information was important to you that didn't implicate president of united states is not correct that is correct was there any explanation given as to whether mr dean was holding back things were relying on executive privilege or anything about major mr silbert to the extent that or even the relevant information the federal bureau of investigation

where political activity including specifically mr levy my pleasure the republican won sian as recruiter it is august when i came in for my five o'clock me when i write to regroup with lead and i would have my thought about not just about the extent of my mouth with respect mr mitchell association when you engage in any partisan political activity with exception of one occasion after i was confirmed by the united states senate and i went back when the trump and chess club maybe their

environments a republican club i have never attended a political meeting republican party meeting of any kind since i entered the department of justice january twenty ninth nineteen sixty nine all right the rangers listen to it assistant attorney general henry petersen comes before the committee will have that testimony in this from all the meantime public television's coverage of the senate watergate hearings will continue after this pause for station identification i don't read coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of pbs the public broadcasting service

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and fact continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential

campaign activities you again correspondent jim lehrer back and watch the servers now begin questioning assistant attorney general henry theaters it's been years i state your name i'm thinking

this is assistant attorney general there were seventy two and what position do immediately i just spilled i first joined the department of justice in nineteen forty seven i going to television in the i think it was june nineteen fifty one you first line of the breakdown of the democratic national committee headquarters of the watergate on june seventeenth

nineteen seventy two possibly longer levi's me that didn't even at that point at the democratic national headquarters in possession of what was considered to be again it is and told him about it primarily because i didn't know what the security arrangements large republican whatever and if indeed the

intention of trying to deport i thought say might be an opening for republican headquarters and i thought you were before wasn't the destination under the sponsorship of the wild justice began there's an investigation on the way he had this is the working on the matter at that point with him and bobby department and the fbi were just coming into it now what role as you play with the investigation a gentle supervisor almost a badge questions i had just i was a degree of supervision they should be involved and since we knew at the close of saturday june seventeen that what we have thought that the explosive devices electronics listening delight and that an individual

named e howard hunt was possibly implicate of very low impact that is checked for information relating to him and found at the scene that question and i rarely stated that that investigation or to be as isolated follow political element as it could possibly be and i suggested that mr titus appointed rebel system are also want to conduct an investigation in his office and report a list of ideas and give myself on a daily basis or important daily basis what was your relationship with the federal investigation an investigation to get any kind of reporting from the fbi reporting

their reports the prosecutor's justice or running company were more meat and i report the media they report immediately briefed reporters a vision where is the scene was getting a witness statement almost immediately what the reports were coming over to meet the first version of a lot of fact that there's an e that was reasonable and cooperation i still do not have or wednesday and miles traveled here in athens and so it's a whole package a report that i was this so recording you were that the prosecutor at that report on to the idea that you're sober

now your emails mr doonan the decline even i can take a three time on saturday june seventeen different all i know the setting i was about to place when indeed if i had not heard his testimony or discussed with him i would've said i placed second quality of many events inside our country's through i placed a third or more a third of all i needed to him and he was living in his speeches that i had running down its reserves is down there on the heads very guardedly when i was trying to working in was that documentation relating to a white house consultant have been found at the scene was important yeah what did he tell you about a meeting

well that with this delay yeah as recently as i think all i remember predominantly because he's an unhealthy people treated the same as everybody else i conveyed to him at that point the information about the electronic equipment i guess i thought of the law to make that statement because i don't know how many other way to treat them but they i don't recall in telling me that was there if you get it now john dean i guess with time on official liaison with the justice department since he had been there are renewing the organ that the attorney general's office he was in communication with us frequently with respect your interpretations of a

corrupt practices act so we have frequent dealings relationships work it while the formula that he was enjoy it anyway or billy is on in the white house for an investigation on that status to that i suppose the bia discussing the iowa john dean rosen the first instance of a request scientists over to the fbi at the white house the main investigation people were to be interviewed appointments were not being kept her ever being delayed or what have you and they would call upon me to extradite him and i would call god i mean i have to say that whenever i called him he was like you know during the

nineties make some statements this investigation for the white house justified one involves has to be a majority there they asked for a status report it the general status report a major investigation we had some discussion i think congress discussion my god what happens during this and what type of the situation is this and that i mean i remember the words very distinctly i said john i don't know who

i'm talking about when to ever is responsible for this is the day an ad and there's only one thing that the president of the united states can do without cardinal and the way that he should being used to construct the attorney general to be done immediately there's some discussion of that and finally yeah he's about to say women were never so what about that decline you said john set that up being then got up to leave and we had some conversations about the investigation into the conduct of a fishing expedition but we certainly don't conduct their investigation of this is that there are now asking what it had been decided yet so somebody thought well what's been decided he should be me the name of the games to be relevant is to climb without a little awkward but quite honestly i took that was

another indication or as an indication that perhaps the attorney general i think most of it was red knot of those races at the white house and that they let out most of the region's president however that there was an all consuming i never heard anything i finally have been about the show is that unfortunately we never heard anything from the president if i can jump in a minute my little conversations with the president on april fifteenth it only needs one peanut ever come to her again seventy nine and which he indicated that the planning another meeting while you're up there with finding work that you and he went over to find a backhoe i don't mind that we did not have

a rather i told him i had no i had no idea where they might mean and i told them i did not win the white house with a wide open and the record saying that saying that if you are not no i do not i do some concern about this ought not to be an excuse in the journal of the white house i have no problem with that i certainly going to see prizes the seven crime of a specific crime is usually a roman general investigation of a white house level of activity i remember being a fishing expedition and his investigation this and you recall having a

conversation with the acting director of rain over giving us to be and there's good report cites is thrilled to the conversation with mr gray i know conversation with the gray about investigative reports on to you know sometime every poll fifty four we discuss lesser myself about the times while the investigation was focusing on the white house staff and also on the committee for the reelection of rather absentee and hiking in an elaborate on that i don't anticipate your question what is the next question is do you never ask you for permission to have a really well done sir oh ok they're being used during the many angry he was by mozart mr klein has called them once they and i recall is a member of a

one telephone and he said i just wanted on being indian ethic of even have the fbi report and i had to be very quickly and very about when someone telling no and i was that way and i think that he might feel the diversity and considerate of his relationship with the president the white house as well now if the president calderon says those reports you get to do is i guess are only wanna send out a memorandum and say well the president does say send those reports over wires the so we can do that but we ought not to give those reports on request and he said i think i agree with that as a listener or the basis of us to some of your decision to stay put his reports i didn't think i had a

vision of john mccain and the donate fifteen i heard by his own admission that he was involved i was most surprised person martian and i guess what was simply prudent i didn't think then that when the start to work over there was involved in where they were so much opportunity for cynicism that prudence dictated that we should make those reports available i thought was to gain if he was over i understood charged by the president to keep abreast of this situation but i mean thinking you have injuries we knew where they're nick makris in advance of providing for dual role at the un thousand white house those are all over this week what the unusual request i had the best witness on that would not be somebody from the fbi suspected that

request of the derivative in many instances they're requests positively to the fbi with the director of the fbi the acting director of the fbi be under an obligation to check with the attorney general before he exceeded the sequester in all things i think maybe sometimes sometimes yes and sometimes now if it were for example love a background investigation of the real white house appointment and i want to save a monster that they had to carry them over there but if it were an investigation of somebody who was posing fire on suspected wrongdoing i think it began prudence would dictate here and actually sending over a large number of troops who isn't bothering the investigation the fbi while questions

are being asked of the staff members of the president or what would your life again i think that's improving are going to say well you didn't have that we suspect you'll wrongdoing another government official you don't do that but nonetheless i would think that when your position it might be why are you not happy or prevent american actor oh i think we may have had some description of this that perhaps you can add it's for the record exactly what is included in a preemptive law was a witness and as far as the fbi and it might include just any witness might say now underway during this period of time actually an investigation will you wear any restrictions

on the investigation place by the president concerning national security or cia involvement or the internal investigative unit only life without getting into that know i had some discussions with mr gray concerning the potential of cia involved now one such discussion on love song on july fifth he had come to mind all discussed the matter and yet some are communications with the cia personnel and he indicated that there was some he needed billy some cia involved in it that you can accept at least you can accept that or you better get that in writing and you accept that rebound by us i just don't really you had to really get real event

but that was the only get back later and said well that their turn was mostly i mean i had no other communications with the president and he is that too that stated he eschews the whole month and the development restrict investigation so as not to reveal national security matters or cia involvement big inventor you achieve the vision and value and today that construction the presidency you know sir that we will by the way that there were all of the meetings that whistleblowers had with mr gray concerning the question now on june twenty ones i was not aware of all of the meetings until recent disclosures i was aware that just a grainy was in touch with mr walter trying to determine whether or not there was any cia involvement in connection with the mexican beer and

that was a lot better now did you ever discuss witnessed their lives and that i guess i would qualify that i think that in the record but there is some cia assistance with respect e howard hunt and there may have been working on the question with respect for mexican transactions know yet sometimes that there's an imam can find these questions about that period but within that actually week or so after the break and i think that testimony before the committee is that spoke to have this degree and twenty twenty seconds it was the cia involvement and the nice thing with all men mr adams and destroyed afterwards that on the same day on june

third of its general war is right in that area i married and now that you are discussed constantly with the recruiters appearance before the grand jury and john dingell made at the time of the group appearance before a grand jury and have really no idea eichler it's over anita well as your ear is very articulate young man and he described in this episode of good witnesses all the hair but henry nobody believes a story about the money and you know i guess in those words or what i do now we could and maybe we could imagine our relationship tossed out nobody wants nowhere where what it was used for and present a grand jury didn't know they were boys and drawn to it i think and understand that

either were you what we're aware of the fact that this long told the prosecutors met silbert prove that are to have him pick a different someone at greater visibility i was aware of the time i wasn't aware of that group of four granger even use a subsequent aware that the indictment i think in the us today but we came down to what was wild want it was a conflict and use long was a good which has another effect actually is a few minutes at the port you about mr gruber made out with was i think it's after his final appearance before the grand jury all actors appearance before the ranger that he shows images because i think they're afraid parents is that we have to address universal things where the white house come out white house and

john being was charged with for very poor want it done things they perform a family where i'm responsible to keep imprisoned for you know if i get in there and yet really really juicy out of i don't know the answer and had read it and he posted on tuesday and they want to know if there was really a newsworthy i don't like to know about it at about that time and happily so to try to keep them informed of the ultimate fashion when i did and he would call and therefore you get out of it does it got through now are you can you recall a time when those concepts review and setting the appearance of justice than it would render this arcane and it really tell the committee about that your work i can innovate i think isolated it was

donna summer before the indictment it can be fixed because of the media before the return date of the subpoenas served on this thing and i received a call and forty five of my moments at the kitchen table it was the forest service land idleness so what's responsible and i approve that and that it was an embarrassment that it was true that you've interviewed at least twice by the fbi but recently i'm hesitating basically his testimony

his interviews with the senate committee that well as i recall was a parent up there was some question about whether the committee will lead his statements that he did know what happened to the model medium is collected we had some of the same difficulties and that we felt would have that was a story that we were telling basically the third time to get the idea and it was right well what anyone i assume that question twice new never spelled out except the stop question i was just playing he is a grand jury well that's what he was driving head i think twice what he wanted and he never answered others say stop harassing

i have enough of those things of the problems of being a lot of the marvel minnesota was a necessary fall it is hello work all that i think about the center was declining poll recently that they enter and so are you instead the industry in the morning about this youthful audience or someone dying in everything that we made i think within miles of a plot next morning and read mr klein used on the status of the investigation nobody knew anything

we did it we didn't i didn't discuss justice over the supply insects while concessions and we did make was that we would take his testimony on what it is rather grand very conditions that is we're being president we'll probably before that are you aware of the declining value of his telephone conversation with his nose or i never heard of that i mean in the i didn't know from whom he had learned of the conversation until very recently now could you tell where he stands he was interrogated in my conference room by the prosecutors on the case with reporter present and no one else i'm not that before the grand jury those are well scott why was given similar concessions for an investigation into her

role in the ongoing and was this requested by anyone at the white house it was requested by john being an order to avoid publicity there is a reason that the reasons of his confession was given well they know that's all right for their job and justice department decision to restrict public officials because a concern for her tremendous seriously if you don't conduct an investigation where it should be conducted and if you do kind of an investigation where it should not you do a terrible disservice to the public official involved in snow oh well say well as a public official we want you know you've been cleared and we're sorry about a lot of listening that's very serious thing and i haven't stayed up at the

concession to avoid that type of publicity for resolving problems by conducting they're necessary and investigations of public vigils and his realization as possible until we can be precisely sure are and then you can open up and render that when you do this as you did in the case of the stand you do prevent the opportunity of grand jurors who might ask questions that might open up some areas obviously what use the method that not always were a grand jury and a grand jury doesn't have gotten a question everybody in every plains were you aware of that stands himself or his attorney received a transcript of his statement that he gave for it or with their dna about is getting rid of us what does francis appeared before the grand jury would not and i would say one reason for doing this on the

grand jury conditions it would not supposedly get it but i don't want to give in now the scope of the investigation itself who set the scope of the investigation and his guess was that he was upset by the prosecutors wow i'm not sure i understand what that means but what actually was considered within the scope of the grand jury's investigation will not get warnings consider within the scope of a grand jury investigation federal crime violations i wondered handled separately and they were able to the extent that we can and so i think invariably we get adopted by different section of television without what i realized it wasn't all so to that extent we tried to separate now they could

remain inseparable there is some witnesses who were common the corrupt practices violations that were before the grand jury and where they were we tried to combine both shepherdson at the mall or questioned by sobered at one time although it would dissipate and a decision not to get into the so called dirty tricks activity of about reading the north korean regime the question was raised with me by two people wanted also worms in you know in effect were not expert on a corrupt practices act we don't see any violation do you and i said no not on the basis of what we have is around september at the iraq problem at charles who was in charge of accounting transaction called it henry you know we're not going to be using a violation eisenach says they're saying

are not a violation of my not only values and we've been unable to uncover the nation of these days as a birthday to accurately subscribe to political statement that's there to show subscribe to being a violation of eighteen usc six twelve and that's what the investigations have been awful the locals or an item of information on not a violation of my mouth it was called for question before the grand jury to recall telling mr silver to limit his investigation is ready to the civil war you know activities and i said sir i didn't eat well what we were ever there was a relationship

between point i misspoke twice opposite that i don't remember the call to say reading we were relating to try to relate his relationships to whether or not they had any significance to the watergate a whole country we're here what i knew about it and son relationship a combat area that adults already morning and getting into the air their vision but i thought the campaign activity and the lyrical piece in this conversation is to think of but you on page one is that we thought the fed after my conversation with jake and i called the leaders in the x line was confronting i told peterson

dealing with the white house and i said i'm a liberal eighteen weeks of the election and i wanted to combine investigation is warranted the investigation of the white house there's this raises questions about the names of the

city where that i've heard often wonder whether that's why can't disagree and now do you recall having a conversation with me responding to an investigation but that's a very confused situation you mention of amazing to think i would have the letter and i did not let it was an ad that he's also ultimately i was to consult with respect of the ladder and i don't remember that being asked me what our policy was with respect to congressional committees and i told our policy was want to invite some of that was a pending prosecutions our relationship were going up so that we could do that and former problem in general with investigative committee like mcclellan maybe one and it were you aware that the committee was in fact planning or subpoenaed a number witnesses that would be involved in the prosecution

such a congressional committee my problem