1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-08-03; Part 3 of 5

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senate select committee on presidential campaign activities you again correspondent jim lehrer will go back to the hearings at senator gurney's turn to question general walters if bernie has been true show it to me your memo calling the unstated i could tell today that i have talked about and suggested that the investigation not be pushed further in your testimony before the appropriations committee you know this is a message from the wreckage of the appropriations committee west alton service it has been decided that you will go to the grave and tell them

whether the investigation of the mexican finance a part of this thing is but shoot it may uncover some cia asset a somewhat different question so give me a list and then the massive march in punjab i also occasionally i would i'm not in retrospect it back and refreshing my memory i cannot recall him mentioning money there is a tremendous difference between these one is that volunteers ordering new orleans pianist not the only has to inform you of the ladies who's mexican mining business that may uncover some cia assets and most of two diametrically different things on the speculation centers i see it wasn't the pursuit of this investigation in mexico and mexico

and limited only to mexico when endangered cia assets whether the money as they came into my mind because the main engine that when i talked to him which was planted in my testimony before the house appropriations committee but subsequent to the memorandum i wrote i would rather in this case just a memorandum i wrote five days later the testimony i might've given a long time they are influenced by what i knew since the mexican gang involvement my recollection is that money specifically was not mentioned it really isn't what i'm talking about is whether mr hall and directed you to go to the fbi and tell everyone not to choose your own words for that that's correct

it is saying to the fbi that if you wish to do something in mexico or whether it's money or anything out or that it made a thriller the cia and one of the reasons why this is so important one asking is that one day before the appropriations committee what the president will do the other one in a memorandum to foreign set more with what was going on in the white house leave land before this committee and these last several weeks was a couple but my recollection and i was told you were going and you know if the investigation in mexico is pushed further it

made and say stop it may uncovers and cia asked collins after you finish this meeting are voluntarily menuhin director helms you mentioned the meeting and chatting together for a moment and mr helms are reminded you were to tell that was a record twenty two agencies but didn't you and directed how discuss this very unusual meeting and that's very unusual they're heroes and instruct him to do something or not do something didn't you direct to discuss the unusual i think we both albums that one might have some information to which we were not

pretty well for us in the last fiscal commission might have i felt that if he wanted me to know he would've done david president as well as the defense department state department and many other agencies all manner of foreign intelligence that maybe dangers of government of the united states i believe that a generation of the agency of this government the better kind of information we were we had access to the cia's sixty years and i certainly after six weeks did not know the details of on the agency operations in mexico i'm curious

freight is going to interrupt that in retrospect i should have said that the nature of the directions veterans affairs impresses me to and it was extremely explicit warrant that wasn't some question of whether some further inquiry by either you were directly the home services mentioned also i think it was in this first meeting or maybe while the beginnings of the first main investigation was leading to a lot of important people who were these important thing i was not going to do it the meeting will

be twenty seventeen teaser that some of these suspects might talk talk about what i was telling me that my talking about the cia and whether anyone iowa because i knew that there was nothing they could say it literally you're you might be old notion that was the names that i have is they might talk about the cia they're really committed or what the president and my understanding was it referred to us is available through the caribbean my baby boomer wealth no i'm not this business about a lot of runway

cia to the fbi the fda should not go ahead of this investigation because it might compromise security interests who asked the agency to write a lot i'm fifth of july senator gregg called me and said i can't stop this unless i get a lot of new orleans from home saving for the pursuit of this investigation in mexico would jeopardize us that was the first mention did he indicated somebody asked him to talk to you and ask for a lot of i do not have any recollection of that for us now it was your impression that he he was going ahead and only that could stop him michel

the whole thing is very unusual cia and the fbi would certainly a leading to get them all is not well in these requests an update on a question that was bernie a few years you know but did you ever discuss this with director helps and so you know every all this is going on here is something really must be rich drag you think that we are in a year to discuss the idea we need a senator i think one of the reasons for that which is difficult to see in retrospect is this was compressed in a very short period of time the whole span of this was from the twenty thirteen of the twenty eight in this

period of five days after that that rival being that if you push the image of the president i never heard from him yes and i mean i can understand that and that occurred to me also but then in seven or overnight year it comes across mr dean you see it i want you learn is the cia to request that material be returned to you get caught on him advice to the material well as i mean i thought that he was kind of those i couldn't leave a narrow and the department of justice filed a poignant line again the character you i'm erika celeste in here and you're a mom and of course

what you and he discussed and you also discuss the region are down and revealing all these other facts that have occurred in the nineteen seventy two hundred and you so you're talking it means for us discussions about this latest record you and he raises a question this looks like a cover up over the most emotionally involving those and i think we've gotten is making about the suggestion last week when an ad agency which was not implicated we refused to do this and this being asked nothing further from any of the agents that wouldn't eliminate oh because it was illegally working that i don't know his motivation was

prosecutors these days who knows it's clean i'm going to slow and messy business but the region's pheasant every star we do wish someone had one out of cell general

thank you while i will not be at the cia was involved in one of the watergate break yesterday and you interview him as part of that the cia already heard that is correct so we will not be any investigation with the warning anyone know well see i and the organization's annual wrong and that the cia says the problem now and now as you did

at this whole auto communications about who will be the midst of the innovative audience oh no you in twenty minutes thank you what on the invasion of eighteen who are estimated now on now on your website but you

you know you know that is an alien wall that will that we don't know you know that you're welcome oh yes

in your opinion and in the world in which our nation now is that the one of the best ways to make his nomination government treat its embargo on location actually i can imagine him up by a general actual number of witnesses almost every witness i guess that they should not assume for my questions that i believe or disbelieve their testimony or that the nature of the inquiry signifies

anxiety a concern on my part or satisfaction but rather my questions are designed to elicit particular information and some cases to test that information against the testimony of other witnesses documentation circumstances i'm sure you'll understand that maybe there's some questions as to pursue my that's the case of the epic be directed to and our source of information they received three location which i understand while the cia is that this committee have not yet had an opportunity to examine it the people i understand that the materials like the cia the appropriations committee and the staff of the appropriations committee for this that this committee but in any event the significant thing

is that we've just seen as not an opportunity to read the chest as well it does not mean that i am trying to pinpoint a particular item of being a significant important but rather that that's what i've been able to run a trial so far a mistake one other thing reading on the day was voluntary i'm making no such allegations i have a great respect for the cia or to great appreciation for what it's done for you or director for all those other great gentleman who serve this nation it very well on very diligently so with that preamble i'm like yeah i know this and there's not been a whole series of letters from on the court the agents' or you matured i became familiar with them i would say the beginning of june of this

year how to begin what was chairman i might notice we have on previous occasions these documents are normally classified top secret and will be a comment control system only mr burnside several places for administrative use only and since i think we understand that understand its chairman that ends of arson evidence that maybe the material it may be something that happens is really relevant to the inquiry committee we have the authority to back meetings at the white house the inherent authority of this many members to put them in the record so far he has

been the pope no really

yet there he was arrested on june seventeen centers five of the answers questions inside no personal contacts and knowledge of them until i heard about the general way about a month ago it's because both yes i've heard that it appears to be the first entry is a letter dated january fifth nineteen seventy two which simply says no means amazon sign that reads as a copy editor at that and will address

the ball an interview i n o r forty six twenty nine thirtieth street north arlington virginia knows the army that is a member of oregon's is at a standard method of reaching americans i know i have said that he knew his department's the record still tell us what the spectators on the ups here and i'm not sure that it was or when most reporters and the options here i have been given to understand that no person much of this is information we already in the testimony mr orben against additional preamble might be in order i'm not trying to contradict the testimony must comport is a matter that much of this corroboration that i want to do this to reach our open heart jenner the nineteen seventy two or

no says the out there traveling the outbreak at the feet of the cia this week and play we believe that allegedly were willing to bleed so it is a sort of living with the early intervention on the prosecution why this came out of the aclu hearings of then there's the aclu lawyers said that he was told this by the prosecution but quite well as modi for the outfit is even getting predictably it was anticipated that when i refused at gates yeah i'm going to take a massive character assassination attempt why has not indicated as much this morning river enters a culture of indicating that the world was watching this case the democrats are criticizing at handling that the jury was going to get to the bottom of that he said that he would personally examine the pages of testimony i'm

standing in the grand jury that involve arab world leaders of all some of the music man so there's a quote we are scapegoats they are i corrected telephone call israeli embassy september twenty first nineteen seventy two a thirty five am telephone seven six to seventeen well all of chilean embassy october ten nineteen seventy two at a telephone number sign there that every idea while resting on that information the cia i will i checked as what i read in the newspapers i gather still felt a certain sense of loyalty to the cia he was anxious that it not be willing to something which was not a response and once again i'm not trying to poach on the spot that is the information that was reported at least hoping that you investigate whether or not those two embassies were reported

i think that senators i don't do this year existence the next day it would appear that we've had and that is a fact it would appear that we get them on the crisis appears to be you also addressed a very familiar idea i believe these were published in the newspapers there's a mistake in these letters i don't know where they will but i haven't been somewhere i have i haven't seen for years i'm waiting the collection so as an address but it's dated december twenty nine nineteen seventy two and it appears to be transmitted

an envelope also addressed mr allah oh smart rockville maryland and twenty nine cents the center is a victory evidence of the domestic security social security one was made earlier israeli embassy online and the others may the chilean embassy on wye oak alter weapons police abuse on june twenty six nineteen seventy three supreme court

recently rather than disclose the edges are perceiving in the observer see these conversations were involved there is no question but that our own households are still being here we are in an excellent position what it is evidence of perjury the ingredients at them in the metropolitan police department no sir i know is while some of that evidence circumstantial of bell other portions it's bad in fairness to some semblance of completeness of this letter but they were military

might say that also on this day forward at least your role during watergate hearings a meeting recently in which plans for events toward a trailer disgusting persisted in the proposal outlined the watergate operation cia operation leslie and three and i rejected it even allowed to make a second approach such a proposal that was that i claim for cubans and i hooked up a bugging operation on our listeners also share of the hundreds of dedicated find men and women of the cia and no longer write intelligence summaries and reports with integrity without fear of political recriminations and they're fine directors being summarily gesture the politicians want instead of the way the truth and bust it dictates our nation's nation is in the deepest of trouble and freedom itself was never so unfair

nazi germany rose and fell under exactly the same philosophy of government operations i understand and imposing on a general what you did you give us any insight into why as reporter was betting on these reports the cia or regulations addressed at this park at you every bite into it or you give me and i haven't really invited you and i have discussed i gather mr mccaughey this period still felt an intense feeling of motion towards the agency he didn't believe that somebody was trying to find that it didn't seem like he was asking for helping us here he didn't serve as i said in that scene is that as i would like to make one comment that where it is perfectly obvious that anyone who thinks dr schlessinger could be pushed around all major like anything that was sued anybody has never met i'm totally agree with new commissions

and i must say we came away neither of us claiming victory i think when i came away with a very very high respect for his integrity six months of work the eighties and for a moment nora condone the implication that that description with that i don't believe that their side not just violated the rule that i put on myself and i won't comment on the testimony when that one so if i may and i think my statement supply chains slash my statement supply chains messenger who is the secretary of defense that's right and he was once head of the cia or for the chairman of the atomic energy commission and who knows what he may be next december twenty ninth nineteen seventy two one parent leaves their reserves

and paul barrett mercury lead by ground risi i employees once caught in the act refusing to admit it also really custom and tradition of cia along those lines you know i compared her for the fact that police officers for that and then they're not how was previously report the impact this latest one which can be read into it means giving them up on stage one that i claim get him into the arraignment this was a cia operation then be this was an operation which we the cubans back cooked up on our own no such statements were made there absolutely all serious art a simple sheet of paper that has the worst mitchell remembers orson in libya no explanation and beyond that the

mtv officer's name is probably under pressure is still all they can go to jail anytime you need me to just before congressional committee and you're right it's just you know how this was addressed to mr gainor of the cia was there any no sir cameron's image that all postmarked washington dc post dates is illegible there's not only a memorandum jack seide at the writing this letter you know moses and the wto operations later cia leak where does not belong every tree every tree in the forest will fall it will be a sports desert all matter is at the precipice right

now just passed the message that they want to blow their own exactly the right workers thank you another one december twenty second nineteen seventy two dresses most of all departures well you all there is tremendous pressure to put the operation on the cia referred to internally sometimes the company don't worry about me no matter what you hear the way they had this all is to flood the newspapers with leeks or an anonymous letters of the plan is to place the blame on the company for the operation this is a plan and we preempted but the story's leagues of the present or it may not be your clothes to let the fences on the police officers and impede the intelligence department

to justify that one of the defendants told him the defendants were company people and it was a company operation years probably been promised motion for changing his story could this right be careful in your dealings with all i can to keep you informed he preferred an inaugural address mr richard helms director central intelligence agency langley virginia july thirtieth nineteen seventy two and there's a copy of the letter the

peak there is no accompanying envelopes was this compilation indicates deer blind you understand those of information you'll be interested in obama i was engaged by the committee as their lawyer in this case the committee told him that the operation was a cia operation he says he did not learn otherwise into one of the hundreds killed in the attacks and he says he grew up or the prosecution under silver add a line judge nelson very first year old will never coming right out and saying chosen for him and everywhere in that i witnessed and learned that even so the other defendants in the barber is now the cia story is not of water or more correctly will not be allowed to stand by the cia the prosecution is not planning to change the church at least all the money for the operation

and turn right we're not just giving or sixteen thousand dollar that on one occasion what does that this term stays at rest assured that i will not be a pet say this latest book they'll have to dream up a better one than this latest bill state's witnesses not only be impeached on the stand to be charged with perjury before the grand jury that federal official task of a certain statement that the committee officials allegedly stole applied research operation well now the program mr noel stopped reading as i have mentioned before i don't like to retain in washington the reasons for state the prejudicial press coverage a half percentage of registered democratic voters and the jury would be picked and the pro government

leanings of such a measure the government's prosecution the matter of timing of a change of venue motion is i realize best left in the hands of the lawyers fact remains that i lived in washington since nineteen forty two and know certain things about this trip to colombia from firsthand knowledge having lived there in the west but i want you to be aware of your other generals as i say i am a ten or even a listers forced the paper over the weekend and talk about some more it would appear estimate that since you came on board an impression i asked dr her service in other capacities the agency that to not have her stand out i

appreciate your interest i was a problem the best and talking with the director of security a new venture at estimates based on your examination orchestra now our trip that a new venture any estimate based on your knowledge of cia operations i seventy on any reasonable basis as the virus or beginning this information periodic we interviewed i tried the agency i mean he felt there was a conspiracy against the agency that this is what i know that my judgment which then you know which you conduct an

investigation or close one to be done at the cia and why or touch and certain other riders like especially if you come to my knowledge of the time i would have said and i want to address that david jacoby but to go well it would be me today that he's won and while the next day it would be a few years ago these are clearly indicate corroborate certain testimony to be given bob corker bill so maybe to the effect that there was a plan he oversees although they felt that the cia was not implicated in a way of them out there

right that might say since that represents a commentary on my interrogation which i appreciated but that is certainly one in europe acacia and that's why i went to something to explain that i'm not making churches i'm simply applying for information but i'm afraid it is not the only possibility and i think i worked myself in the committee to try to find out as much as i can and in addition to a lot talking to most to director league or possibly too and that's true for mr osborne or others i think that like a top investigator i think i'd like to know whether he ever answered those letters and what it actually tells them that what you have in a year duration

the acting director of the fbi really quoting exactly from your memory in your presence wish that one is called i cannot repel better grades just five suspects have been arrested that should be sufficient was not advantageous to have the concrete question especially in mexico city you is not on this matter because i gather when you know for you and the candidates were given based on something that was within his knowledge that might not be in your knowledge or the knowledge of the directors well if that was the case why wouldn't he tell you what was this was something within his knowledge

i don't know why just one quick question pressing hear that same paragraph that's just innocence five suspects have been arrested that they should be sufficient sufficient for what that ever occurred to you not do well both you and director home to testify that there was discussion of mexico are unlikely unlikely broadway i don't know what else refer to money you've indicated they didn't come up and that there was pressure mexico mexican relationship so specific mindset and there

was substantial it certainly i understood was he felt that if the fbi continues its investigation that's going somewhere which was not clear to me that wouldn't cut either personnel are activities of the agency and next what does the fbi do in a sense not the investigation that went into mexico on page sixty two it to liquidation do you recall discussing at that meeting that one of their concerns was a cia might want to have an investigation by the fbi

mexican money that relationship i don't recall the mexican question being raised it by the president that morning in his instructions to me to hold the meeting i mean in the meeting you just understand my own regulation it's been the point all right thank you it's become a parent

and a moment we'll hear from another figure in the alleged watergate cover up former fbi director l patrick gray color televisions coverage of the senate watergate hearings will continue after a pause for station identification on a bridge to coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of pbs a public broadcasting service fb it's big

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presidential campaign activities you again correspondent jim lehrer as very very contained apple launched the former acting fbi chief l patrick gray takes the stand or read his version of the events following june seventeen nineteen seventy two they work under the chairman of the delay is that the reason the areas of interest of time would you please for the record the way

we see you that's right thirty three dr king as the newest washington coming over the question of evanston deputy counsel us that he was treated for it as do i

was chairman i don't know any circumstances at the same time the united states as billy you the cia investigation my mistake i do think you

would receive my discussion of the area's believed to be a crime infested admit i was appointed acting director of the fbi by attorney joel klein a green nineteen seventy one disappointment as a returning service similar to that in the united states navy six years many additional many years of additional service to the country in the company of the honorable and dedicated men and women of the fbi on may sixteen nineteen seventy two microscopes that when i moved into the offices formerly occupied by the late new one month later on june seventeen nineteen seventy two the area that headquarters of the democratic national committee in the watergate hotel there at the outset

the money airports are not in any way responsible for my performance of the operators relax your judgments of mine which occurred during the period that i served as acting director the cia to mention at the time of the watergate break in and i was on the west coast visiting fbi field offices and making a pending a commitment to make a commencement address at pepperdine university law school in sinai i returned to washington on the evening of june twenty and received a phone call from john erlichman the next morning mr eckman informed me that john dean would be handling an inquiry into watergate for the white house

with an investigation and that was to being was expecting mr eckman and i then discuss the matter of procedural safeguards against leaks i told them that we were having this case as a major special with all of our normal procedures in effect i also indicated to him that we were going to conduct an aggressive and rigorous investigation and would probably be interviewing people at the white house mr jean yvonne my return to my office at ten am an arranged to meet with him not eleven thirty am in my office on june twenty one nineteen seventy two but i mean we discuss what made this sensitivity of investigation and the need to avoid leaks and a political year he also an army

duty and the responsibility down this inquiry for the white house and would sit in on many interviews of white house staffers to now being stated that he would be there in his official capacity as counsel to the president i know that i specifically asked yesterday on two occasions if he would be making his reports director the president i believe that this was one of those occasions and i believe that the other occurred when we were discussing the transmission of fbi file mercurial to him to assist him in his infirmary i asked justine if he would be reporting directly to the president are through mr haldeman are mr erlichman he informed me that he would be reporting directly the president in this meeting with mr dean there was no discussion of whom we were going to interview or wellies might take the investigation we did discuss the scheduling of white house interviews rumors the game and

is sitting in on the interviews as counsel to the president on thursday june twenty second nineteen seventy two after being briefed by mr charles w dates assistant director general investigative division regarding the latest developments in the watergate tapes and undoubtedly is the result of information develop a better rating i telephoned director arms of the cia i told him of our thinking that we may be looking into a cia operation and asked if you can confirm or deny this he said he had been meeting on this very day on this every day with his men that they knew the people that they could not figured out that there was no cia involved i met ken witnessed again at six thirty pm the same day that ben discuss the scheduling of interviews of white house staffers and now

and to arrange the scheduling of these interviews directly through the washington field office rather than through fbi headquarters at this meeting i also discussed with him our very early theories of the case namely that the episode was either in the cia covert operation of science are simply because some of the people involved have been cia people in the cars ari cia it money chain rei political money chain quite true or political operation for a cuban right wing operation or a combination of anybody i also told mr dean that we were not fb fb