1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-07-18; Part 1 of 5

it's b mr stiller yeah you know i'm seventy five years with the view that receive money again from mr tauber is a bit at express some concern about can this problem did you ever change your job so there was that there was a period of time when jackson alone they spotted its searching system on the areas that was the problem and i got in the

line long time ago but it was probably only about fifty thousand of his time and the three year prices in front of me and stop him for talking about the trial now in the senate of the united states a resolution to establish a select committee to send an investigation instead extent if anything illegal you engaged in by any prisons acting individually or in combination with others in the presidential election of nineteen seventy two on a campaign campus or other activity related to run washington today's hearings

he's a senior correspondent robert mcneil if william white who wrote the organization and could have produced much of the watergate script so far it was damon runyon star and today i witnessed was anthony us to its former new york cop laid out all the practical difficulties along loading two hundred thousand bucks in secret installments divorcing seven watergate defendants and they have a committee and the audience laughing more than seven weeks of testimony it also got the message sooner than anyone else what they were doing wasn't kosher bacon in a more startling contrasts with the next witness and mississippi gentleman rituals moral and realistic volunteered his time to the nixon campaign and found himself sucked into criminal activities fred larue has already pleaded guilty to conspiracy to obstruct justice in his testimony today he contradicted much of the testimony john mitchell is close and good friend

welcome back jon mitchell's initial probe of the watergate break in and today he added some more clues to the character the mystery man the most raw g gordon liddy nasar spoken voice lareau talk about his meetings with liddy in totality was ready to accept punishment for a failure at watergate committee in jerusalem for an event to be with her any information about the ocean a lot of the investigation even if it that if we were not satisfied with that assurance that no english and partially wiley air hostesses have it if we're so we were instructed to be on any street corner in any doubt in the air weekend session

the point we're also told the committee that he came to the conclusion by late june at the break and had been approved by someone of the committee to reelect or at the white house and was founded by the committee to reelect president and the reason for our video to deliver a one use it for yourself so in terms of personality and elijah woodson fred larue couldn't be more better or stephen hess the brookings institution senior fellow watches these series with us from time to time preview comments about that aspect of the time as senator howard baker as he so often does nicely summed up the testimony of tell us a let's when he asked the colorful new york city detective who fought you up jimmy breslin clearly have a congressional committee

aaron desert to tell us once and it is a serious side to what he said perhaps of us so it's a roll of the food a shakespearean play prism of low caste same wise things in the skies after those us away to war and come back that clever presidential council of the dangers ahead rather than the other way around with us so it's not come back who had that sort of smarts compared them to us with his testimony which may seem like comic relief the next turn to fred larue when a low key intense manner gives is testimony that is really the stuff of which go to jail and this case the men could be john mitchell jeb magruder john dean possibly come back and filing room and sell it another obvious difference of course is the new york he's a tony last and with verses than the cities of mosul road our business will be back at the close of a live broadcast for further discussion of today's session you'll be joined at that

time by john cranmer the georgetown university law center isn't it a rundown of testimony to let you know what comes when in the first hour a former new york policeman anthony you as a witch recalls that he took the first payment of seventy five thousand one hundred dollars from comeback in a hotel laundry day and it ultimately made for money drugs to the hunts redistributed cash to the other defendants but the lesson ritz says by september he had a shaky feeling about the legality of the entire enterprise he says they still continue to follow orders never acting about comebacks ok and the third hour he concludes his testimony saying that part of his job was to acquire information on the sexual habits and drinking and domestic problems of potential appointees to the administration on its enemies lazarus also says he collected information on potential campaign contributors fred larue begins to talk and the fourth are speculating that the watergate plan was finally approved in magruder got a call from charles colson paul's campaign director

john mitchell suggested a good fire to find incriminating material and the fed thought lue says that he didn't consider the payments to the watergate seven as blackmail andrew says he made the disclosure the fence could create a threat to the election of the republican ticket his testimony by saying he made earlier this year senator evans about to open today's hearings and begin the second appearance before this committee of joining us and whats the committee will crumble you will the polls

ms lynch yeah john joseph as the chairman of the committee he is the ability for the purposes of answering questions and i feel like the records indicate that it is so close dated april thirty nineteen seventy three thank you sir

you testified we are better relationships mr caulfield making contact where i just wanta work go back and ask you will you contact that really you know in february of nineteen sixty nine with weapons to work doing some investigative work we will nineteen sixty nine and in june nineteen sixty nine nineteen seventy two in nineteen forty seven

it was the comeback to ask me to work about washington the next afternoon yeah i wanted to speak to me regarding an assignment where was that thank you and you lose a revival of a statement saying that it was at a situation of development he was asked to do something my help i said that it was legal it was to provide funds for persons and difficulty for payment of the councils and for a payment to assist the family said they were troublesome be a repeat of the state and several times he was very abilities very nervous

films become like they're just one of us now is will i guess you've guessed that tends toward a good situation situation and anyway affection ask anyone's ability and i will manage my own services and that is an assignment for me and i'm asking you to believe it will necessitate confidential methods possibly at that time where it completely break in at a certain point the conversation to mention that caesar's palace

calling would you explain twenty one anything you could use mr carmichael reduce suggested that he might call me intonations of this money will be used in a non event and that would be that history myself a hero and because of that he said that if another man would probably

be necessary would be john roberts you know so and in a conversation you know suddenly had the money with them and i was seventy five thousand one hundred dollars which he gave me was a lot about them and we're going to work and i wanted to put the money on going back to the code names one when he called you know he would that he would call your home and say this is you know that we believe a number of people that i've developed over years it's a slow night vision

which i supplied unintelligible public telephone numbers i would go to the telephone and that we have at any given time usually about a half hour long a formidable foe do you have a seventy five thousand dollars good morning get your receipts or want to buy ten women to receive money at the regency hotel in new york city a forty thousand dollars and that would've been in july of nineteen seventy thousand kids who will as the next year hilton here in washington twenty thousand dollars

and then my recollection is the file miles seventy five thousand dollars at the airport in los angeles opposite the county i'm not going back to the original seventy five thousand one hundred dollars with the nominations that in front of it will you keep that cat on capital become a time when you see these are the amounts that you let them somewhere else is why was that a safe deposit box back to you what you hear from a lot of what you mentioned the political analyst it is like the washington dc it

probably was and what you do with them i was a contractor in the security and he suggested that he would the violence is once throughout become accent and was one of the code names we've got the other names there was a little confusion these circumstances combine with thirteen is facing huge news and really was john rivers when i called mr takacs and the idea that this conversation i was to say the purpose of microorganisms that he was that he was asking the course of a script of a play that plus the salaries of the players i wish i did i can't let them is the calving and he responded and said he

would meet me at a restaurant some time after new year in washington dc and just to clarify that in the rivers as the prime minister of his years in most of these transactions it was a reverse lottery reason for that evers williams and what happened now he's a writer oh absolutely my instructions this is refreshing my memory again and another thing you said that

i had to do if i receive the monster so i am not going to move on and so in touch with the company and he's continuing to drop these negotiations and rob this was the pattern i would whether to proceed in his case of the point of the message was to combine probably had a kidney than a mere rat that's a formal religion i'll get back to you and i think it was and the marshal in high point was that it an anomaly we got lawyers far as any force and not picturing that i'm going to be seventy five thousand one hundred and he's not alone and as you're going

through you know sometimes believes in his vision soundbite of music it was the kennedy suggested that i should come up to the office that they would have it with a visa card or a separate office reserve is the republicans to come out and i think the schools more than one california was one element to serve however there was a delay it was attempting to reach the communities into another and i probably will but that the city do

something that was it was the cabin of that mean thank you we look at it well it's the government generally wants to alumni of things done by have a year the worst guys right back to new york again oh yes just about the time the event of a cad in which we got the seventy five

thousand one hundred and i was asked to call you mr ryan using the name of john rivers cuomo i called mr ryan received a very you know i tried to brush off the response and i was in a conversation with one for or he showed no interest in any significant way it was related you're getting the same scenario where various people got back then was a really really impact other people buy and another person who was an unprecedented telephone number at this time it has no name and file the best american action it was i wouldn't say it's a fellow be expecting a common scenario john rivers ordinary was appropriate that the rivers i imagine this

is becoming a problem he said to me well the right is right an easy conversation the pay to play the piece the same thing cause of the script the writers and to give the figures on what

the reasons this point to scores of the script the players innocence and you're using the same name that's right so fees thank you this time around it is because at this point i still wanted to almost forty seven five thousand one hundred and he you know he brought in a new situation he wasn't prepared at that time something's not what we like what was to come by precinct

michael tomsic from farming in the quarter cup titles to his time as the button some providers of body and they said all right that was an issue for you would be twenty five thousand dollars well look her time she wasn't talking about this would be early july sixth to that that was the right hand you're working with people most of that when you're singing oh yeah you're welcome during this period of

time so there was that there was a period of time when they started searching system monitors airlines there's a little problem when i got in the line long time ago but that was the one i had probably only about fifteen thousand at this time and finally deliver you know persons of fun and stop and how to produce forty four packs of cigarettes or something seven eleven o'clock every night with the pennsylvania railroad train home at night now you arrange to twenty five thousand dollars for the script that the region and how did

you arrange for that money i cut second was the butler died from the lobby of his whoppers when i spoke with him and he's right on the navigation a private eye went out to explore an area on a couple of my most of scotch tape i counted twenty five hours from the twenty five thousand from the seventy five one original which i did a little a plainclothes problem will oppose the information from the lobby of his billions with the fall movies with a phone you know approach the easel and coming even identify the first things that you describe you ask what's

the media we let that is that the lobby of the building that's right right right this telephone will miss the boat and seven and i had the you know the delivery and that we can write down and that would be an alleged that the kind of homeless gentleman standing with alleged terrorists they use yes i was we have a description of

annie what do you remember i did have shot but another version of both sides of the revenue has a million spent section of fun some pictures taken on a saturday and do this as a weak marine commanders celebrated first of the world in atlanta did you go back and forth several times and have you describe the other contacts you may be individuals the first money difficult time later when you come back is desperate and did you have a conversation with this is not where you arrange the furniture

with some fun can you just describe what you cover american airlines that's one side of it sits in the center of a very busy areas and the senate should start with the time i watch for a shadow it almost exactly at that point with twelve noon and if you saw by the twelve that the pleas not to go back out and come back at about that time as you follow the instructions which was little time in the meantime when i arrive in washington whatever crop one would have had the kind of witnessed the locker and take it and just before when i pull out with instructions about five minutes before and she was coming

to the us was upset about twenty five feet away or analyzes the cities of telephone booths virus explodes with six wilson isn't as a question as a bit of traffic area before making arrangements ideas and some time observing a couple built five minutes or so prior three minutes prior to the time that i would have become plentiful and the navy are the current route as i would the scotch tape it made my top shia then i would leave that area and i didn't buy the new stand opposite or at this would be where the phone wouldn't think this is becoming too would be in his direction and this is a window for observation by the public it's summer

and i would probably be achieved in this area work there or be a little farther behind that i could watch the booth and she would come and other actions were simply known as a veteran of lutheran liturgy will unlock a lot would be in this direction of our point five assault was hollow now on the first occasion that you also have a description of her where as you mentioned a busy to sedona the clip was shoulders that i believe are making it happen that the phone booth with you there were still some scotch tape on an event that is correct matt did you observe her on on the first occasion come by pickup he and going to be a lot of thinking and rio won and remove and let the lutheran

and other occasions and segregation i mentioned there was one occasion is that i think i mentioned to actually for grabs of the house thirty three thousand a second title eighteen and fifty three five dollars division which was september nineteen arthur that i think you had under observation getting lucky until some at some point he would have somebody come in and why you write so well that he would be

very quickly through the heat that's never come back that's right and that's another part of me when that one of that was in july of nervousness indigent and that that money would be delivered mr liddy a telephone number promises made those arrangements energy money and come back and back to me to deliver the money be a thousand in the actual conversation there's

something about standard where's the money thursday morning i placed the canon and willow and so in place with an alleged event a window and myself in a position that was a version especially for this unusual insurance situation than we are he came in and it is instructive that or maybe wearing shirts on descriptions from i walk by me and i proceeded up visits of five years would surely to another back

and i watched them from up here probably i thought that the doctors in this area and he will probably come back with thirty seconds or so and they're checking is looking at is you want the money have become a crime and arrest the us was that in september of nineteen seventy two is that if you make of that that's right the second one a

missile and was the context of the ornaments have contact with those six pm and the solution was a plot which of course was a little surprised be sure to leave muscles suggested that i mean the cottage at the desk and i said it was the comeback there were no point about been observed and i've been a great instruction best as i know how that's so funny they use traps and motown across forty eight which was used an unusual situation and i placed the key i promised you an asthma can package it was way because it's been exactly was related causes you're right

i watched him the two magazines he stopped at the island because of the heavy traffic when you stepped off the island now approaching a little money and allegedly and will pursue throughout the bible cigarette machines and i could see him come and take the year pick up the money for the moment and so you have the money and you turn up the table will go back up some more conversations it's b now you delivered your twenty five thousand dollars to

work a little bit you so if you have made that i didn't matter that did you receive you to contact the us and a telephone number two years of the writers of residents and who you are a listing of course educated yesterday i spoke to a young male

was a writer he was the face of unlimited knives michael in any way and that was the end of that law was to come by them was i hadn't really tried for an example was to college and i met the right is why for the ride his wife was it was hot mr zhou yes my shoes she was expecting that we are also the trap that was her first made at this point in the conversation yes we do i was going on innovative and mrs hobbs day that started with a list of the necessities of a chinese the

chinese cities and she wanted you were the persians down in people with the necessity for eight what that is for us which us cities of phone conversations that in july of nineteen seventy two wins i am working in a senate committee on the substance of those conversations concerned that initially for years in a position to deliver another one of those necessary a lever so continually an early feeling that i would pass a message on to something of that type as you thought about the missionary with a conversation or requesting rather than the manual building up at you know as you mentioned you started with a saw the fact that she had lost her own job a

listener should be taken into consideration and there are certain things with the job that it was a shame and what about the us might be there that i've been lost and thought that perhaps ten or fifteen thousand dollars my innocence i would try to stop as you're continuing with that's essentially the same situation was occurring those are probably and because i cannot separate completely but where it's not from the four instances of dropping the money she's gotten this is suggestive way and i'm going to have have really scott the subsequent years you were mentioning a necessity over there mrs lilly was undergoing its own psychiatric treatment almighty and i'm going to choose a school teacher and that that you probably wouldn't be able to work as a result of this and that should be another as ej was lucy

you're welcome and as you mentioned the names of laugher and this isn't an informal conversations that moment is one pakistan and it's hard to build up in that no matter how many times i would say that i'm not negotiating z and of course a chicken in a boxer's when the pockets of their particular problems people that sell the others though may have become involved with the news that recently that there was unveiled problems themselves as you mentioned i'd see any portuguese conversations over the third time in as he was the one who is delivering the money for the various people take it from me and they mentioned a few mentions they're just been silence martinez and when she had mentioned the word bark as you mentioned earlier this

summer ten thousand dollars for under the table and then she mentioned the problems with other people suggesting that there were others possibly involved in his articles with weapons that never seven she made weapons to him she was asking are seeking specific someone is that correct oh yes twenty three coming up mm hmm and when she talked about her travels she also discuss that you were

concerned about people down south and what assurances they might be given she wanted to work she was concerned that they receive their money likewise for the support of their families and for eternity what was the discussion and its effect on people downtown us that someone would be having an easy were getting nervous and the cinematic that unless the money was forthcoming that situation are aware that you're transmitting these requests these are concerns of jesus wants to continue on and no action and the multiple sons that the businessman seek information for the defendants says the fifteen thousand dollars to own accord living in holland

thousands of marker four thousand as they're just two thousand in salads two thousand and martinez and now another concern yes she's so that was code causing a problem down south because it so happened that a little concerned because the five months ended up in the period just after the election and from that i gather that they fear that that was the limit situation know what you're referring to it's funny

she said the attorneys and to mention names of the defendants and their attorneys you mentioned twenty five thousand dollars for a bit and thought this was in addition to the twenty five to the present to me again in this case the twenty five thousand a record with lee bailey twenty five thousand libyans would not release twenty five thousand walker withdraw about twenty five thousand with three others the ten thousand and thirty thousand you address me again those figures to emerge because now when you delivered your first delivery of forty thousand dollars to just one of national airport how's that figure out and as accommodating that figure and at that time it was the only time in these thirty day trial and that message was two to say a certain while for people and it was like a down payment because it was obvious than

seventy five thousand and as a result you may be picked up first location visual signs away with become a time when you fold up the amount of money that he's seeking well it was a us citizen visiting a formidable than fifty thousand dollars and did you have conversations concerning response depends on you in california when you went to pick up yes that was the year that was in illinois in august than it was the year the allies to pick up from this to come back and i'm sure in his current be appointing an orange county airport and can cause just even private this irony of

suggestiveness to combine his thing is definitely gone a different direction than originally anticipated originally anticipated being that seventy five thousand one hundred was gonna be the imminent while and now and that the person they get it would probably be one person in that case we thought it was thirty and was that the right compensation and all these conversations was the combat was upset about it was i was a little bit unlike many fashionable in it but when we let your immobile i have an economist comments a lot about what your opinion was an ice as well first thing i make the most of the sitcom i that something is not kosher and he looked at me and i said well it's not really that global markets a lot of those happen without a non negotiations with the negotiations with it seventy five an hour tour a sum which we've

raised we've now got something like two hundred twenty thousand coming into my fear was exactly it only approaching heaven i know that the next conversation i think has got to go from all instances in all so that is serving as valuable look like my feeling was that you know he understood that that was my last the tension i'm so sorry would that meeting in california who receive a call from him in september of nineteen seventy two as you to deliver up the money that you would describe them as mr laroque ph would you just talk about what he said to you about what you said to him

at that point it was a little unusual because of the inflection of his voice and be jaded imitation not something unusual as compared to any other time that i spoke with him i couldn't fathom why would he was very anxious that i that i recount it it will pick up that to make deliveries on the same day he was around long time from this hunt and one at six pm and it seemed very it was time i was reciting a candidate in saratoga county new york he wanted for the next morning and as white tuna is the unemployment problem like i said i mentioned to murder my lai as about the timelines on and i mentioned to me well i kind of a long pause and nurses were in a much more than your own to set something that affect how you know that i do have a problem however i could resolve the problem go away we left that

was ok if i couldn't do what i please take care of this the group's request to twenty nine it was obvious i witnessed the first flight out and i got in a new york city just five have by opening with the volatile and remove the money which was the lowest of what we can and then i got in washington and i managed to make the arrangements previous games rather than the real and this is not the same and then in fifty three thousand five hundred and twenty nine it was true the next day or second day of his comeback or only by hand as innocent as much as what happened and it won't work well what's wrong you savagely below the morning edition gets a livable vermont issue to do with it

an unusual situation and that was about nineteen you're the world thank you for your investigative agency that spends money based on whatever expenses incurred this one thousand dollars and you now see that expands on no one at one point in the delivery of that for deliveries to me he had mentioned that one of the mines have a thousand dollars he had taken a thousand dollars even if it was for expenses a thousand and now the figures that you gave us for the attorneys

and the defendants those are the figures that you understood we're going to be pegged to the attorneys and the defendants less direct you don't have first hand out whether this man did not transmit however that the funds were transmitted because if they won't require course mr chairman i have no further question before they might not inside of the committee staff questions must realize that once we're going to take away the public television's coverage of the senate hearings will continue after a pause for a station identification on average coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service by the member stations of pbs the public broadcasting service fb the pain

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pay allen pike continues its coverage of hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities here again correspondent robert macneil republican counsel fred thompson is going to turn over the questioning to his deputy william sure us once you testified earlier this committee that you initially hired to do some discrete investigations and that this hiring was done through your connection with mr coffee it was the correct and that you were in fact interviewed by mr jonathan what the world needs to come back to play in your prior employment with regard to

these discrete investigations arrangements i was so in other words mr comebacks where prior to the events which you've just described really was just as a conduit for payment due for the services that you're rendering to mr caulfield was for business so and to come back ever whether you have to conduct many investigations now so that when he called you on the twenty nine this was the first time that he really asked you to get involved in anything by way of activity and did you check that mr caulfield and find out whether or not combat was operating with any authority has to come back to my telephone number from as people who

have an especially mystical did mr caulfield inform you that he didn't have to come back to a number as a short timer but the period of time in terms of the twenty eight or twenty nine june nineteen seventy two you really relied on comebacks another conversation in that moment was the comic also wannabe his instructions was absolutely would know so that was the combative the money it i'm taking you on an eye symptoms become like it would be better if you didn't know what mattered enough that i'm going to use a distributor lion's den what you want them one of the liver no

i failed in your situation and can i assume by your statement that you didn't discuss this activity with the nightmares that correction now obviously this was an unusual activity was an investor us with well it was not just another child and anyone ever given you as being fb the