The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

JIM LEHRER: Good evening. I'm Jim Lehrer. On the NewsHour tonight: Our summary of the news; the electoral and terrorist fallouts in Spain; we hear from "Washington Post" reporter Keith Richburg in Madrid; plus terrorism and political experts here; then changes in the no child left behind program, as seen by deputy education secretary Eugene Hickok, and Governor Tom Vilsack of Iowa.

NEWS SUMMARY

JIM LEHRER: Reverberations continued across Europe today from Sunday's elections in Spain. Socialists swept the ruling conservatives out of office over the issue of Spain's support for the Iraq war. And today, the socialist leader promised again to withdraw troops from Iraq. We have a report from Bill Neely of Independent Television News.

BILL NEELY: Dead in the polls last week, in power today: Spain's new prime minister, Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero swept into office on the back of a massacre. The new leader's first act: To announce that Spanish troops in Iraq are coming home, just as he promised, after a war he opposed. Why do you think you won? No answer, because the question's political dynamite. He was losing, until Thursday morning. We found plenty of evidence today that people changed their vote after the bombs.

SPOKESPERSON: Was not for the socialist, but now yes I vote, I did.

BILL NEELY: So you've changed your vote.

SPOKESPERSON: Yes.

SPOKESPERSON: They lied to the people.

BILL NEELY: Did many people changed their vote after this bombing?

SPOKESPERSON: Yes, I think so. A lot of people did.

SPOKESPERSON: Yes of course.

BILL NEELY: Forsure.

SPOKESPERSON: Absolutely.

BILL NEELY: Spaniards are angry and upset about the bombing, but they were angry long before that about Spain joining the war with Iraq. The vast majority opposed the government's decision. That government is now out. Al-Qaida has influenced the results of a major election, and more than that, it bombed Madrid because Spain's troops are in Iraq. Now they are to come home. Three Moroccans who worked here are still being questioned by police about the bombing; two are linked to al-Qaida. Spanish detectives have gone to morocco. They are fencing off the scene of the attacks, but their repercussions have already spread far and wide. Spain's dramatic day's not over yet.

JIM LEHRER: The Spanish vote brought quick reactions from other countries in the Iraq coalition. Italy and the Netherlands said their troops will stay, and Poland warned Spain against pulling out. The polish prime minister said: All together, Poland, Italy and the Netherlands have about 5,500 troops in Iraq. In Washington, President Bush congratulated the Spanish prime minister-elect today in a phone call. A White House aide said they did not discuss Spanish troops in Iraq. At the State Department, another spokesman said there's already a U.N. Resolution on Iraq, as the new Spanish leader wants.

SPOKESMAN: It has been said that there needs to be a U. N. Mandate for those troops. We believe there is such a mandate in 1511. At the same time, we've also said that in the context of a transfer of sovereignty on June 30th, we, a new resolution is possible.

JIM LEHRER: We'll have more on the Spanish elections and its repercussions right after this news summary. Leaders of the European Union called for immediate action today to prevent more terrorism. They scheduled emergency talks in Brussels, for Friday. And France called for an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security council. The French foreign minister said the war in Iraq helped trigger attacks like the bombings in Spain. Gunmen killed three U.S. Civilians and wounded two in northern Iraq today. They were ambushed in a drive-by shooting in the northern city of Mosul. U.S. Military officials said the victims worked for a private organization they did not identify. In Pakistan today, a bomb was found in a van outside the U.S. Consulate in Karachi. Experts defused it less than five minutes before it was set to explode. There was no immediate claim of responsibility. Pakistan's President Musharraf said today a Libyan member of al-Qaida was behind two attempts to kill him last December. He vowed to expel 500-600 al-Qaida fighters from the afghan border region. In the U.S. Presidential race, Vice President Cheney pressed Democrat John Kerry today to name foreign leaders who support his candidacy. Kerry has said he's heard from leaders who would "love to see a change" in the White House. He declined to say who they were. In phoenix today, Cheney said Americans deserved to know their names and what Kerry is telling them. White House spokesman Scott McClellan suggested Kerry is making it up. But the Kerry campaign said the administration was just trying to change the subject. Also today, Al Sharpton endorsed Kerry for president. The civil rights activist said he would no longer campaign for the nomination, but did not formally drop out of the race.

AL SHARPTON: Contrary to public reports, we're not in the campaign, we're going to the next step in our campaign and that is the direction of the party. We've resolved who the nominee is, we should make the nominee victorious. We must resolve now with what the party will stand for, who the party will stand for, so we can get the turnout necessary to defeat George Bush.

JIM LEHRER: Sharpton also said he would continue promoting his goal of a new urban agenda. Russian President Putin was officially declared the winner today, in that country's presidential election. He won a second, four-year term with more than 71 percent of the vote on Sunday. He said today he would open Russian politics to divergent voices. But European observers said state-run media showed a clear bias in favor of Putin during the campaign. Ousted Haitian President Aristide flew to Jamaica today, after winning temporary asylum there. He planned to be reunited with his daughters. In response, the interim leader of Haiti suspended relations with Jamaica. Also today, the U.S. Military said a marine was shot in the arm yesterday in the Haitian capital. It was the first American casualty in the peacekeeping mission. Israeli Prime Minister Sharon ruled out further peace talks with the Palestinians today, and he canceled his first meeting with the new Palestinian prime minister. He did so after suicide bombings killed ten Israelis on Sunday. Two Palestinian teenagers blew themselves up at a key port facility. Sharon has discussed a unilateral pullout from Gaza, and parts of the west bank. He said today he would consult first with the U.S. A prosecutor in New York State charged two ministers today with marrying gay couples in New Paltz. It's believed to be the first time members of the clergy have been prosecuted in such a case. Maximum penalties on the charges are $500 and two years in jail. Output at U.S. Factories, mines, and utilities increased more than expected last month. The Federal Reserve reported today that industrial production was up 0.7 percent in February. The report did little to help Wall Street amid jitters over terrorism and the Spanish election results. The Dow Jones Industrial Average lost 137 points to close below 10,103. The NASDAQ fell more than 45 points, or 2 percent, to close at 1939. That's it for the News Summary tonight. Now it's on to the terrorist- driven elections in Spain, and a federal education change.

FOCUS - AFTERMATH

JIM LEHRER: The Spain story. We begin with a report from Madrid. Ray Suarez talked this afternoon with "Washington Post" correspondent Keith Richburg.

RAY SUAREZ: Keith Richburg, welcome. In his first public news conference, the man expected to become the next Spanish premiere announced that unless the U.N. Took over the Iraq operation, he was going to be pulling Spain's troops after June 30. Was this completely expected, is it what his party campaign does?

KEITH RICHBURG: That's right. I mean, you know, the presence of Spanish troops has been deeply unpopular in Iraq. Back in November there were seven Spanish intelligence agents those were killed there, and then, of course, after this incident. This was completely expected, although he did add the caveat that they would be pulled out unless there was a united nations mandate, a new resolution, and the entire operation was taken over by the united nations, although some of his aides say privately they don't expect that to happen by the June 30 deadline that he has given.

RAY SUAREZ: During that same news conference, he also sounded pretty critical of his E.U. Partner, Tony Blair, and Spain's ally, the bush administration. Is that fair to say?

KEITH RICHBURG: Very much so. He criticized the entire justification for the war. He said that events have shown that the war was an error. He said that Bush and Blair should do some self reflection and self criticism. And in the strongest words, he said they went to war in what he called, in his words, a lie. It really... even though he came out and said that he wanted to have cordial relations the White House, and he did accept a telephone call today from President Bush, the tone of this news conference really indicates to me that it's going to be a very radically different relationship between Spain and the United States.

RAY SUAREZ: And now that there's been almost a day to digest some of the results from yesterday's election, is it more easy to understand what part the bombings of last week played in the result?

KEITH RICHBURG: It's both complicated and very simple. It's complicated on one level, because Spaniards were reacting really to the perception that the government here was withholding information it had to indicate that al-Qaida was responsible for these attacks. As you recall in the initial minutes and hours after this horrific attack, the government said it was ETA, the Basque separatist movement. And it was not until much, much later, close to 11:00, midnight here, that information started to trickle out that it may have been Islamic extremists involved. So there was a perception that the government was withholding this information because it would be damaging to the government's election campaign. On the other hand, Iraq has always been a very hot button campaign issue here. Most Spaniards oppose the war, they oppose Spain getting involved. And it just so happened that in the last weeks of this campaign the Iraq issue had gone to the back burner and economic issues had moved to the front. So really, on one level what this is is very simple: It moved foreign policy in Iraq back to a front burner issue, and that's why the popular party lost.

RAY SUAREZ: So the bombing turned the Aznar government position on Iraq and support for the U.S. into the real heart of the matter, the heart of the election?

KEITH RICHBURG: It really was just... it was an emotional vote, in some ways, people were very angry about what happened. They were very angry that, in their view-- and this is really a perception-- that the government was misleading them with information; was initially blaming ETA, because blaming ETA would be seen as something that would benefit the government. That perception was so widespread that on Saturday night, when the word of the first arrest of these three Moroccans came out and two Indian-born Spaniards, thousands of people took to the streets here in Madrid, they surrounded the popular party headquarters, banking pots in a sign protest, shouting "liar," shouting "cover-up." And also, another factor here, you had two million or so new voters, people who just turned 18 who had not voted four years ago, and they turned out in huge numbers to vote against this government. They would have been probably traditionally left-leaning voters anyway. This issue, this terrorist attack, motivated them to come out, and what they were really saying was, we don't want this higher international profile that President Aznar, the prime minister here, president of the government, we don't want this higher international profile, we don't want to be so closely aligned with Washington, we don't want to get these kind of reprise attacks coming here.

RAY SUAREZ: Is ETA totally off the hook? Is the attention how going elsewhere? What's the latest in the investigation?

KEITH RICHBURG: Well, ETA, you never want to say anybody is totally off the hook, and one avenue that investigators are looking at is perhaps the terrorist those did this, and assuming it is al-Qaida, perhaps they may have purchased explosives, or they may have done the actual purchase of the explosives from some operatives of ETA. That's really kind of speculation, but that's one line of inquiry that hasn't really been closed off. But the intelligence sources we've been talking to, people in other Arab countries and also other European capitals pretty much say the ETA track is a dead end. It looks pretty much like an al-Qaida operation.

RAY SUAREZ: And now there's attention focused on the cell phones that they may have been part of the bombing attack?

KEITH RICHBURG: That was the link. That was how they first got to these five suspects who were arrested. And two others, I should add, are also being detained for questioning. They found on one of the bombed trains a sports bag, a gym bag, containing explosives wired to a cell phone. They believe that the cell phone were the way these devices had been triggered in the backpacks and sports bags before. One of them had not exploded. Using that cell phone and sim card, they were able to trace that to... directly to one of these Moroccans. Apparently they were running a small cell phone rental company and sales company in a district here of Madrid. That initially led them to some of these suspects, and they found out in fact, that at least one of these suspects had been on their surveillance list before because of these attacks, you remember, from last may in Casablanca. So that's how they've made this connection, and also, of course, we had the emergence of this videotape from someone claiming to be a military operative for al-Qaida in Europe. That was the second piece of evidence linking this to al-Qaida.

RAY SUAREZ: Looking ahead to the next few weeks, does this new socialist-led government take over immediately, or is there a transitional phase here?

KEITH RICHBURG: There will be a little bit of time of transition here. The government, the incoming socialist government did not get an absolute majority. They came very close; they're about 12 seats short. They'll need to do some negotiations with potential partners on a coalition. Those will be regional parties, smaller regional parties from other places around Spain. They will form a government. It might take some time. They've got up to three months; they'll probably do it within about a month or so. We should see some movement on that front happening, I think, around April. And that's when I think you're going to start seeing the real major changes in policy. But up until then, the Aznar government is still there. Aznar is still prime minister.

RAY SUAREZ: Keith Richburg from the "Washington Post" joining us from Madrid. Thanks a lot, Keith.

KEITH RICHBURG: Thank you.

JIM LEHRER: Margaret Warner takes the story from there.

MARGARET WARNER: What does the election outcome in Spain say about al-Qaida's reach, and how will it affect U.S. efforts to sustain a coalition in Iraq, and against terror worldwide? For that, we turn to Richard Burt, former assistant secretary of state and ambassador to Germany in the Reagan administration. Charles Kupchan, former director of European affairs at the National Security Council in the Clinton administration; Daniel Benjamin, a director for counterterrorism at NSC during the Clinton years; and Nicolas Checa, a former advisor to the Zapatero campaign -- he's currently managing director of Kissinger McLarty associates. Born in Spain, he recently became a U.S. citizen. Welcome to you all.

Dan Benjamin, was the timing of this an accident, or is there evidence that in fact toppling the Spanish government was a specific explicit goal of al-Qaida?

DANIEL BENJAMIN: I don't think it's an accident at all. There has been a long trail of Jihadist statements suggesting that the Spanish were going to be targeted and in fact in some of these things which were largely issued on the web, there's actually very precise discussion about the political situation in Spain, the need to put pressure on the government, the possibility to exploit the fact that the Spanish populous is very upset about the deployment to Iraq, and it actually specified that the period before the election would be a very good time to carry out an attack. So I don't think this is an accident at all. What's more is the terrorists have actually figured out that if you peeled off the Spanish, there would be pressure on the Italians and ultimately pressure on the British. So they've sought in a very sophisticated way about this.

MARGARET WARNER: And what does their ability to pull this off with the timing they wanted, the fact that there were ten bombs in four different locations near simultaneous, what does that say about the so fist indication and reach of al-Qaida in Europe?

DANIEL BENJAMIN: Well, it says clearly that they are very capable, have operatives in Europe who have very clear and very good skills to do this sort of thing. I mean, this is really a fairly remarkable operation. It's not hugely surprising because we know that there are a lot of, there have been a lot of cells in Europe, it's been principally a logistical staging post for attacks against the U.S. and elsewhere -- Spain in particular. But what's also very worrisome is that there is an increasingly large group of radicalized Muslims of European nationality who have fairly sophisticated skills themselves and who may be moving in the al-Qaida direction, may have joined up with the network. There is no shortage of people to carry these things out, unfortunately.

MARGARET WARNER: Mr. Checa, what is your reading of what was the number one thing behind the outcome? In other words, was it Aznar's support for the war against Bush or those people, or was it this public perception that he was trying to withhold information about who was behind the bombing?

NICOLAS CHECA: Margaret, I really think what the key issue here is the handling or mishandling of public information in the 48 hours after the tragic events of last Thursday. I think it bears mentioning that the election was a statistical dead heat, according to public polls the morning of the tragedy on Thursday morning well within the margin of error, one or two points. And it was really not until Saturday evening, as Keith in your piece shared with us, that the government decided to come forward with information as to the arrest of these five suspects linked to al-Qaida. As an example, it took a personal call from prime minister Elect Zapatero to the interior minister, the Spanish homeland security secretary, informing him that the Socialist Party was aware of the arrest and that he was prepared to move forward with that information. It took that kind of information to get the current government to come forward and announce to the country at large that in fact it was not the ETA lead that would generate success down the road in the investigation, but rather the al-Qaida route.

MARGARET WARNER: So you're saying it more than just a public suspicion that they were withholding information, in fact the Zapatero campaign had to essentially pressure the governmentto release this information?

NICOLAS CHECA: Precisely. Yet there was a report earlier in the afternoon on Saturday coming out of Spanish intelligence agency saying that they were 99 percent confident that ETA was not responsible for the attacks and that all the avenues of the investigation pointed into al-Qaida. In the early afternoon after the arrests had already been made, the director of the Spanish CIA denied those reports and it was after that that the campaign manager for the Zapatero campaign had to come forward and basically inform public opinion that there was information that was not being shared with the population.

MARGARET WARNER: Charles Kupchan, how do you think these results are being read in Europe right now?

CHARLES KUPCHAN: I think that the European political landscape is in a very fluent situation because up until now we had a Franco-German coalition that was against the war and that has leaned against the Bush administration's policies toward Iraq. You had a circling around that inner core, Britain, Spain, Italy and Poland, essentially tilting towards the United States. The fall of the conservative government in Spain and the emergence of a Socialist Party that is much more pro European that explicitly attacks the idea that this was a just war, radically alters that landscape and I think it's going to leave the Poles and the Italians somewhat more exposed.

MARGARET WARNER: But do you think it's going to be read as simply the Aznar government messed up in terms of withholding information or more a repudiation of his policy aligning with the U.S. on Iraq?

CHARLES KUPCHAN: Well, I think that one of the effects of the bombing was that it turned the election in Spain into a referendum, if you will, on the war in Iraq. It made it the central issue that divided the center right from the center left. And in that sense the Spanish that were opposed to the war from the beginning were saying we still don't like it, we don't like the way this war on terror is being waged.

MARGARET WARNER: Ambassador Burt, is there any other way to read this other than as a repudiation of cooperation with the U.S.?

RICHARD BURT: Well, I think we first all have to understand this was a very unusual situation, to have an election just on the heels of this disastrous incident. And people I think maybe reacting with shock and fear rather than kind of letting it sink in and think through the implications. It was interesting today that nearly every government in Europe that has troops now in Iraq came out publicly and stated that they are planning to keep their force there, and they're not going to practice any kind of policy that would appear to be caving in to al-Qaida or their affiliated groups. So I think it was a pretty unique situation. I also, if I could, I disagree a little bit with Charlie's analysis that this has destabilized this kind balance of power between the French and the Germans who opposed Iraq and other Europeans who supported it. I think there's been a real effort in recent months on the part of all Europeans, whether they are for or against the war, together with the Bush administration to look forward. And there's a lot of talk today about a greater Middle East initiative, and Chancellor Schroeder when he recently visited Washington I think made it very clear that he's trying to put Iraq behind him. That raises a very interesting question though about Madrid -- is whether or not this will maybe remobilize public opposition, not governmental opposition so much to the war, but maybe get the people who oppose the war, that demonstrated a year ago or so, back into action, putting more pressure on governments and making it more difficult to come together. Remember, there are three important summits coming up. You've got an EU summit, a NATO summit and a G-8 meeting and they are all meant to show from the standpoint of the administration and Europe that we can work together. It may be more difficult now to do that.

MARGARET WARNER: So, Mr. Checa, do you think that the new prime minister, Zapatero is going to follow through on his, more than threats, his assurance that he will withdraw Spanish troops from Iraq? You heard of course that other members of the coalition warned him against that saying that would hand a victory to terrorists.

NICOLAS CHECA: Well, Margaret, without a clear U.N. mandate, I think Prime Minister Elect Zapatero will have to follow through with his campaign pledge and withdraw the troops. However, I think it's very important to remember that Spaniards, the incoming and the outgoing government of Spain were the victims of this al-Qaida attack, and at some point Prime Minister elect Zapatero will be held accountable for the efforts of the Spanish government to fight al-Qaida.

MARGARET WARNER: So you mean fighting terrorism in some fashion is still going to have to remain a major focus with this new government?

NICOLAS CHECA: Without a doubt. In fact, this morning at the same time in the same press availability that Zapatero announced that the troops are likely to be withdrawn if U.N. support is not provided, he also declared that the top priority of this administration will be fighting terrorism of all forms in all possible ways.

MARGARET WARNER: Rich Burt what would be the effect on the coalition and the U.S., how big a blow is to it the U.S. if Spain does withdraw its troops?

RICHARD BURT: I think it's very important that these other governments spoke out very quickly, and I'm sure there was some communication between Washington and those governments. They do leave a military hole, we're stretched thin in Iraq, I don't think though that's the main point.

MARGARET WARNER: But wasn't there a hope on the U.S. part that more and more that that would become the core of kind of a NATO presence there?

RICHARD BURT: That's exactly the point. In Afghanistan, you have a NATO force, in fact the Germans who strongly opposed a force, Iraq have a major force and have taken a lead in Afghanistan. And I think the hope was if we could get the earlier disagreement behind us we could find a role for NATO in Iraq. This will make it more difficult because I think the Spaniards who were only second behind Tony Blair in supporting us now appear to be the caboose on this train. So getting the consensus together to get a NATO presence in Iraq is indeed going to be much more difficult.

MARGARET WARNER: Well, Dan Benjamin, back to fighting terror, at this point what impact or what message do you think this attack is sending to the governments of, and the people of say Italy and Poland and Great Britain? I mean, was Spain uniquely vulnerable or are these countries equally vulnerable and what effect do you think that will have on the way the governments approach fighting terror?

DANIEL BENJAMIN: Well, in terms of fighting al-Qaida, I don't think it's going to have anything but positive impact in the sense that all of them are going to redouble their commitment. And they are already working extraordinarily hard at the intelligence and law enforcement level. And we shouldn't forget that the British have already been hit, they lost many of their citizens in the bombings in Istanbul a few months ago. Poland is less likely to suffer an attack, simply because there is not a large infrastructure there.

MARGARET WARNER: Islamic radicals.

DANIEL BENJAMIN: Islamic radicals. Italy on the other hand is going to be challenged and the Italian intelligence and police have been working very hard for a long time, long before 9/11 they understood the nature of the threat. I think that tragic as it is, this will galvanize the political leadership in Europe to invest their people and say although we may have disagreed with the Americans about Iraq, the al-Qaida threat is absolutely real and it is targeted at us as well, and we can no longer pretend that we're not the target, that the U.S. is the only target. So I think in that sense we'll see a lot of cooperation. But there will be more questions about whether or not Iraq really served the larger war on terror.

MARGARET WARNER: And Charles Kupchan, how about fighting on both, on the international front, in other words as you know the Bush administration says you not only have to fight at home you have to take the fight to where the terrorists live, and the U.S. has really wanted to get some kind of a U. N. resolution before June 30. Spain had always been a huge help, a rotating member of the Security Council. Has the U.S. lost a really important ally in that effort?

CHARLES KUPCHAN: I think Rich is right to say that over the last few months a lots of progress has been made on the atmospherics, I think the Bush administration and various European governments have tried to put the past behind them. But what I think what we now see is that the Spanish election does to some extent create a political dynamic that is moving forward, we don't know where it's going to go. And I think there are two competing impulses, on the one hand you have a sense of, listen, Bush was right, al-Qaida now struck in the heart of Europe, we need to go with the United States and go where we need to the get al-Qaida. The other reaction is that we went with the United Sates and we got hit, that this war on terror as defined by the United States may be causing more trouble than good. Maybe Iraq distracted us from going after al-Qaida. Which of those two impulses wins out is very difficult to say at this point. In the Spanish case, the impulse that said we don't like this, narrowly beat the impulse that said let's go with the U.S.. I think a key question is: Will this create problems for Berlusconi in Italy or the prime minister or president of Poland, and again we don't know yet.

MARGARET WARNER: And very briefly Mr. Checa, we only have 30 second, what's your take on the impact this will have on U.S. Cooperation with some of these other countries -- or the other countries' willingness to cooperate with us?

NICOLAS CHECA: The government of Spain on both sides of the aisle has a lot of experience in dealing with terrorism and fighting terrorism. I think in the end after the dust settles, after we all understand that the election is over, I think we're likely to see a tremendous amount of European cooperation and indeed Spanish cooperation on the global fight of terrorism. Will it happen in the same terms and in the precise specific fronts that we have seen it so far with the previous government -- possibly not. But will the government of Spain be an ally for the global fight on terrorism, no question about it.

MARGARET WARNER: Gentlemen all four, thank you very much.

JIM LEHRER: Still to come on the NewsHour tonight, Secretary Hickok and Governor Vilsack on No Child Left Behind.

JIM LEHRER: Finally tonight, changing "No Child Left Behind," and to Gwen Ifill.

GWEN IFILL: Even before the "No Child Left Behind" education bill was signed into law two years ago, some lawmakers and educators complained that it would be too costly and too difficult to enforce. Today, as part of series of steps to make the law more palatable in schoolrooms around the country, the Department of Education relaxed some of the new standards. Secretary of Education Rod Paige:

ROD PAIGE: These policies will help address some unique challenges faced by teachers in rural districts, some unique challenges faced by science teachers, and some current teachers who've been teaching for many years and developed expertise during that period of time.

GWEN IFILL: The new changes will give teachers in rural school districts until 2007, an extra three years, to prove they are qualified in all topics they teach; and science teachers will now be able to prove their qualifications by demonstrating broad mastery of the field, rather than of specific sciences like chemistry or biology. The law is designed to improve teachers and students, in part by penalizing schools where scores on standardized tests do not improve rapidly enough. The politics of the law have changed. In Congress, Republicans and many Democrats initially signed on. But the backlash started soon after, and at least ten state legislatures have now sought to roll back all or some of the law. Today's changes targeted complaints raised in rural states like Utah, Montana, and Maine, which have attempted to opt out of provisions they find unworkable. In a NewsHour interview last fall, Maine's commissioner of education said the law made it more difficult to find qualified teachers.

SUSAN GENDRON: I was in a remote part of the state last week and the superintendent was asking me, he said, "You know, I can't find a certified, qualified foreign language teacher. I have an individual in the community who was raised in another country, knows the language, it's their native language. Can that person come and teach it as a foreign language?" "No Child Left Behind" would say absolutely no, and yet if we don't work and support this school system, the children there will go without foreign language.

GWEN IFILL: The Bush administration has already relaxed other areas of the law affecting students with disabilities, and those with limited English language skills.

JIM LEHRER: Margaret Warner takes the story from there.

MARGARET WARNER: What does the election outcome in Spain say about al-Qaida's reach, and how will it affect U.S. efforts to sustain a coalition in Iraq, and against terror worldwide? For that, we turn to Richard Burt, former assistant secretary of state and ambassador to Germany in the Reagan administration. Charles Kupchan, former director of European affairs at the National Security Council in the Clinton administration; Daniel Benjamin, a director for counterterrorism at NSC during the Clinton years; and Nicolas Checa, a former advisor to the Zapatero campaign -- he's currently managing director of Kissinger McLarty associates. Born in Spain, he recently became a U.S. citizen. Welcome to you all.

Dan Benjamin, was the timing of this an accident, or is there evidence that in fact toppling the Spanish government was a specific explicit goal of al-Qaida?

DANIEL BENJAMIN: I don't think it's an accident at all. There has been a long trail of Jihadist statements suggesting that the Spanish were going to be targeted and in fact in some of these things which were largely issued on the web, there's actually very precise discussion about the political situation in Spain, the need to put pressure on the government, the possibility to exploit the fact that the Spanish populous is very upset about the deployment to Iraq, and it actually specified that the period before the election would be a very good time to carry out an attack. So I don't think this is an accident at all. What's more is the terrorists have actually figured out that if you peeled off the Spanish, there would be pressure on the Italians and ultimately pressure on the British. So they've sought in a very sophisticated way about this.

MARGARET WARNER: And what does their ability to pull this off with the timing they wanted, the fact that there were ten bombs in four different locations near simultaneous, what does that say about the so fist indication and reach of al-Qaida in Europe?

DANIEL BENJAMIN: Well, it says clearly that they are very capable, have operatives in Europe who have very clear and very good skills to do this sort of thing. I mean, this is really a fairly remarkable operation. It's not hugely surprising because we know that there are a lot of, there have been a lot of cells in Europe, it's been principally a logistical staging post for attacks against the U.S. and elsewhere -- Spain in particular. But what's also very worrisome is that there is an increasingly large group of radicalized Muslims of European nationality who have fairly sophisticated skills themselves and who may be moving in the al-Qaida direction, may have joined up with the network. There is no shortage of people to carry these things out, unfortunately.

MARGARET WARNER: Mr. Checa, what is your reading of what was the number one thing behind the outcome? In other words, was it Aznar's support for the war against Bush or those people, or was it this public perception that he was trying to withhold information about who was behind the bombing?

NICOLAS CHECA: Margaret, I really think what the key issue here is the handling or mishandling of public information in the 48 hours after the tragic events of last Thursday. I think it bears mentioning that the election was a statistical dead heat, according to public polls the morning of the tragedy on Thursday morning well within the margin of error, one or two points. And it was really not until Saturday evening, as Keith in your piece shared with us, that the government decided to come forward with information as to the arrest of these five suspects linked to al-Qaida. As an example, it took a personal call from prime minister Elect Zapatero to the interior minister, the Spanish homeland security secretary, informing him that the Socialist Party was aware of the arrest and that he was prepared to move forward with that information. It took that kind of information to get the current government to come forward and announce to the country at large that in fact it was not the ETA lead that would generate success down the road in the investigation, but rather the al-Qaida route.

MARGARET WARNER: So you're saying it more than just a public suspicion that they were withholding information, in fact the Zapatero campaign had to essentially pressure the government to release this information?

NICOLAS CHECA: Precisely. Yet there was a report earlier in the afternoon on Saturday coming out of Spanish intelligence agency saying that they were 99 percent confident that ETA was not responsible for the attacks and that all the avenues of the investigation pointed into al-Qaida. In the early afternoon after the arrests had already been made, the director of the Spanish CIA denied those reports and it was after that that the campaign manager for the Zapatero campaign had to come forward and basically inform public opinion that there was information that was not being shared with the population.

MARGARET WARNER: Charles Kupchan, how do you think these results are being read in Europe right now?

CHARLES KUPCHAN: I think that the European political landscape is in a very fluent situation because up until now we had a Franco-German coalition that was against the war and that has leaned against the Bush administration's policies toward Iraq. You had a circling around that inner core, Britain, Spain, Italy and Poland, essentially tilting towards the United States. The fall of the conservative government in Spain and the emergence of a Socialist Party that is much more pro European that explicitly attacks the idea that this was a just war, radically alters that landscape and I think it's going to leave the Poles and the Italians somewhat more exposed.

MARGARET WARNER: But do you think it's going to be read as simply the Aznar government messed up in terms of withholding information or more a repudiation of his policy aligning with the U.S. on Iraq?

CHARLES KUPCHAN: Well, I think that one of the effects of the bombing was that it turned the election in Spain into a referendum, if you will, on the war in Iraq. It made it the central issue that divided the center right from the center left. And in that sense the Spanish that were opposed to the war from the beginning were saying we still don't like it, we don't like the way this war on terror is being waged.

MARGARET WARNER: Ambassador Burt, is there any other way to read this other than as a repudiation of cooperation with the U.S.?

RICHARD BURT: Well, I think we first all have to understand this was a very unusual situation, to have an election just on the heels of this disastrous incident. And people I think maybe reacting with shock and fear rather than kind of letting it sink in and think through the implications. It was interesting today that nearly every government in Europe that has troops now in Iraq came out publicly and stated that they are planning to keep their force there, and they're not going to practice any kind of policy that would appear to be caving in to al-Qaida or their affiliated groups. So I think it was a pretty unique situation. I also, if I could, I disagree a little bit with Charlie's analysis that this has destabilized this kind balance of power between the French and the Germans who opposed Iraq and other Europeans who supported it. I think there's been a real effort in recent months on the part of all Europeans, whether they are for or against the war, together with the Bush administration to look forward. And there's a lot of talk today about a greater Middle East initiative, and Chancellor Schroeder when he recently visited Washington I think made it very clear that he's trying to put Iraq behind him. That raises a very interesting question though about Madrid -- is whether or not this will maybe remobilize public opposition, not governmental opposition so much to the war, but maybe get the people who oppose the war, that demonstrated a year ago or so, back into action, putting more pressure on governments and making it more difficult to come together. Remember, there are three important summits coming up. You've got an EU summit, a NATO summit and a G-8 meeting and they are all meant to show from the standpoint of the administration and Europe that we can work together. It may be more difficult now to do that.

MARGARET WARNER: So, Mr. Checa, do you think that the new prime minister, Zapatero is going to follow through on his, more than threats, his assurance that he will withdraw Spanish troops from Iraq? You heard of course that other members of the coalition warned him against that saying that would hand a victory to terrorists.

NICOLAS CHECA: Well, Margaret, without a clear U.N. mandate, I think Prime Minister Elect Zapatero will have to follow through with his campaign pledge and withdraw the troops. However, I think it's very important to remember that Spaniards, the incoming and the outgoing government of Spain were the victims of this al-Qaida attack, and at some point Prime Minister elect Zapatero will be held accountable for the efforts of the Spanish government to fight al-Qaida.

MARGARET WARNER: So you mean fighting terrorism in some fashion is still going to have to remain a major focus with this new government?

NICOLAS CHECA: Without a doubt. In fact, this morning at the same time in the same press availability that Zapatero announced that the troops are likely to be withdrawn if U.N. support is not provided, he also declared that the top priority of this administration will be fighting terrorism of all forms in all possible ways.

MARGARET WARNER: Rich Burt what would be the effect on the coalition and the U.S., how big a blow is to it the U.S. if Spain does withdraw its troops?

RICHARD BURT: I think it's very important that these other governments spoke out very quickly, and I'm sure there was some communication between Washington and those governments. They do leave a military hole, we're stretched thin in Iraq, I don't think though that's the main point.

MARGARET WARNER: But wasn't there a hope on the U.S. part that more and more that that would become the core of kind of a NATO presence there?

RICHARD BURT: That's exactly the point. In Afghanistan, you have a NATO force, in fact the Germans who strongly opposed a force, Iraq have a major force and have taken a lead in Afghanistan. And I think the hope was if we could get the earlier disagreement behind us we could find a role for NATO in Iraq. This will make it more difficult because I think the Spaniards who were only second behind Tony Blair in supporting us now appear to be the caboose on this train. So getting the consensus together to get a NATO presence in Iraq is indeed going to be much more difficult.

MARGARET WARNER: Well, Dan Benjamin, back to fighting terror, at this point what impact or what message do you think this attack is sending to the governments of, and the people of say Italy and Poland and Great Britain? I mean, was Spain uniquely vulnerable or are these countries equally vulnerable and what effect do you think that will have on the way the governments approach fighting terror?

DANIEL BENJAMIN: Well, in terms of fighting al-Qaida, I don't think it's going to have anything but positive impact in the sense that all of them are going to redouble their commitment. And they are already working extraordinarily hard at the intelligence and law enforcement level. And we shouldn't forget that the British have already been hit, they lost many of their citizens in the bombings in Istanbul a few months ago. Poland is less likely to suffer an attack, simply because there is not a large infrastructure there.

MARGARET WARNER: Islamic radicals.

DANIEL BENJAMIN: Islamic radicals. Italy on the other hand is going to be challenged and the Italian intelligence and police have been working very hard for a long time, long before 9/11 they understood the nature of the threat. I think that tragic as it is, this will galvanize the political leadership in Europe to invest their people and say although we may have disagreed with the Americans about Iraq, the al-Qaida threat is absolutely real and it is targeted at us as well, and we can no longer pretend that we're not the target, that the U.S. is the only target. So I think in that sense we'll see a lot of cooperation. But there will be more questions about whether or not Iraq really served the larger war on terror.

MARGARET WARNER: And Charles Kupchan, how about fighting on both, on the international front, in other words as you know the Bush administration says you not only have to fight at home you have to take the fight to where the terrorists live, and the U.S. has really wanted to get some kind of a U. N. resolution before June 30. Spain had always been a huge help, a rotating member of the Security Council. Has the U.S. lost a really important ally in that effort?

CHARLES KUPCHAN: I think Rich is right to say that over the last few months a lots of progress has been made on the atmospherics, I think the Bush administration and various European governments have tried to put the past behind them. But what I think what we now see is that the Spanish election does to some extent create a political dynamic that is moving forward, we don't know where it's going to go. And I think there are two competing impulses, on the one hand you have a sense of, listen, Bush was right, al-Qaida now struck in the heart of Europe, we need to go with the United States and go where we need to the get al-Qaida. The other reaction is that we went with the United Sates and we got hit, that this war on terror as defined by the United States may be causing more trouble than good. Maybe Iraq distracted us from going after al-Qaida. Which of those two impulses wins out is very difficult to say at this point. In the Spanish case, the impulse that said we don't like this, narrowly beat the impulse that said let's go with the U.S.. I think a key question is: Will this create problems for Berlusconi in Italy or the prime minister or president of Poland, and again we don't know yet.

MARGARET WARNER: And very briefly Mr. Checa, we only have 30 second, what's your take on the impact this will have on U.S. Cooperation with some of these other countries -- or the other countries' willingness to cooperate with us?

NICOLAS CHECA: The government of Spain on both sides of the aisle has a lot of experience in dealing with terrorism and fighting terrorism. I think in the end after the dust settles, after we all understand that the election is over, I think we're likely to see a tremendous amount of European cooperation and indeed Spanish cooperation on the global fight of terrorism. Will it happen in the same terms and in the precise specific fronts that we have seen it so far with the previous government -- possibly not. But will the government of Spain be an ally for the global fight on terrorism, no question about it.

MARGARET WARNER: Gentlemen all four, thank you very much.

FOCUS - SCHOOL RULES

GWEN IFILL: So is the federal government rolling back its landmark education law, or tinkering at the edges?

For answers, we go to Eugene Hickok, the acting deputy secretary of education, and Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack, the chairman of the Democratic Governors' Association. Mr. Secretary, how many school systems will be affected by the new changes that went out today?

EUGENE HICKOK: Well, I think it's possible that every school district in the country will have some impact with this. But it's far from going back on the requirements, what we're going to do is stepping up. It doesn't take place in a vacuum. And part of the obligation as made clear by Secretary Paige is as we implement this law, we learn about where the challenges of practical implementation run against the letter of the law. In this case what we're trying to do is provide some guidance, some flexibility in those areas where, as the superintendent from Maine mentioned, it's difficult to attract, maintain, highly qualified teachers.

GWEN IFILL: So is it fair to say that people like the superintendent in Maine and folks like the Utah state legislature and other states that Bush administration officials have been trying to explain this law, that they effected what we saw today?

EUGENE HICKOK: Certainly, in the sense that our job is to listen to the field. We have a law, it's got a very strong purpose, we all agree on the purpose of highly qualified teachers in the classroom. How you make that happen will vary across states, and part of our job is to fine ways to make sure the mandate of the law is accomplished in a practical way that realizes the challenges and potential of every district.

GWEN IFILL: Governor Vilsack, you're the governor of a largely rural state. What do you make of today's new regulations?

GOV. THOMAS VILSACK: Well, I would say that the No Child Left Behind law is basically on its own watch list. It hasn't had the yearly progress that it should have. I think the secretary suggested and indicated that there are flaws and problems with the law. And at least the department is beginning to create some flexibility, but I'm not sure they've gone far enough. The reality is that school districts have unique circumstances, and I think with the qualified teacher requirement you're still going to have difficulties in places like Los Angeles and urban centers continuing to look for qualified teachers and be able to find qualified teachers there. Right now they're having a hard time finding any teacher to teach in their classrooms, and then you take a state like Alaska that has a completely different set of circumstances, I'm not sure what the flexibility is enough. It certainly to give the second his due, it's certainly better than it was, but I think there still need to be greater flexibility.

GWEN IFILL: The flexibility that was granted in this case help you in Iowa?

GOV. THOMAS VILSACK: In our state we're in a little different situation. We're one of the few states that has and maybe the only state that actually has standards for teachers. This was implemented before No Child Left Behind. We are not in a position or concerned in terms of the quality of our teachers, we're very much focused on professional development in a state set of standards which forces and compels us to get qualified people in the classroom. So it's not going to have as much of an impact on a state like Iowa that already has something in place, but again there are tremendous challenges in highly populated areas like Los Angeles and sparsely populated areas like Alaska.

GWEN IFILL: What do you say to that, Mr. Secretary?

EUGENE HICKOK: I think it's way too soon, with all due respect to the governor, way too soon to be passing judgment on where No Child Left Behind is. As a matter of fact, I think the good news is, one of the reasons we're hearing from the field so much, if through, anxiety about this law is because they're taking it seriously, unlike previous editions, unlike previous administrations of federal education law. The fact is that we're hearing from states, we're hearing from locals, rural areas, metropolitan areas, we're hearing a lot of concerns, but the concern basically is how can we make this happen?

GWEN IFILL: Do they have a choice but to take it seriously?

EUGENE HICKOK: In previous administrations a lot of states didn't take federal education law seriously. When President Bush came to office, only a handful of states were compliant with the 1994 version of the Elementary Secondary Education Act. I think it's a real test with the people we've been partners with that they do take it seriously. But they also recognize there's no alternative - in the sense that if we don't believe in the importance of a highly qualified teacher in the classroom, if we don't believe in the importance of making sure that a child can read on grade level, in this the wealthiest nation on earth, that says volumes about who we are. So the debate continues. It's not really a debate about the larger purposes; it's about how to get there.

GWEN IFILL: Is it a debate, Governor about the larger purposes or is it a debate about the money or a debate about the fact that the federal government is the one telling you what you should do?

GOV. THOMAS VILSACK: Well, I think it's certainly a debate about the financing. We can probably have this debate on the show about whether or not this is a fully and adequately funded law, my view is it's not. And many, many governors feel the same way. I think really what's motivated a lot of the flexibilities that have recently been announced is the fact that 22 states have over a third of their schools on a watch list and eight states have over half of their schools. And I think there's a genuine concern that the law doesn't recognize that there are specific challenges. Not every child learns at the same level, not every child learns at the same rate. This is a very individualized process that education is, and I think a law has to recognize that. And there's also some pushback from the states in terms of the federal government mandating as much as they mandate not adequately funding it and suggesting that there's a strong partnership. In my state we've seen the federal share of education increase from 3.9 percent to 4.4 percent of our total education budget. That's hardly a partnership. That's certainly a contributor, but it's not a partner.

GWEN IFILL: I'll let the secretary respond.

EUGENE HICKOK: With regard to your state you see over a 50 percent increase in federal dollars for education going to Iowa. But the larger issue really isn't a debate over money, I think we'll disagree on that respectfully. I think the larger issue is the degree to which this new law represents where states feel they need to be going. And while there is somewhat of a hew and cry in some state legislatures, that again I think is because they recognize the complexity and the difficulty but the importance of this law. We would argue, in fact, I'll be in Maine tomorrow to take to their state chief, we would argue that we need to do now is sit down together as full partners and go to the next level. But to debate the funding I think is to put together a false premise.

GWEN IFILL: Let's talk about some of the flexibility which you have given it -- there have been changes or relaxations of guidelines affecting same sex education so far, limited English students, that is people who are, school systems which have a high percentage of people who don't speak English as their first language, specialeducation students, students with disabilities, and now this, a lot of rural teachers who have to teach multiple subjects. Where do you go next, if you keep shaving away at the edges here, when have you fundamentally changed the law?

EUGENE HICKOK: Well, I would disagree with the premise that it's shaving away at the edges. What I think it is doing is recognizing we have these principles, highly qualified teachers, everyone recognizes the importance of it, how can you best accomplish that given the realities of the world in which teachers exist -- and how that world differ among the states. So rather than have a narrow tunnel vision approach to that policy, our goal is to make sure in the end we achieve that policy, although it might be done differently than originally envisioned by the law. What happens next, we continue the conversation. That's our whole purpose here is to spend time at the state and local level learning about where the challenges are. We had a team of teachers going to every state in this country, among them Iowa and to learn what kind of challenges are out there, that's what led to the kinds of recommendations that Secretary Paige announced today.

GWEN IFILL: Governor, do you think that this kind of flexible is ultimately a good thing or do you think it's just fixing a flawed vehicle?

GOV. THOMAS VILSACK: I would certainly not want to say that it's not a good thing for the department to be flexible. The question is whether they've gone far enough. When you basically talk about special education students, we are still faced with the dilemma of making sure that every special ed student is proficient within ten years; that a very difficult challenge. In terms of limited language students, is it really fair to assume that a youngster who has been in this country just a single year is and has learned the language in a single year well prepared to take the test that is the assessment tool by which we determine whether school districts are failing or succeeding? Is it fair to say that you are listening when state after state indicates to you that you're not adequately funding your own mandate by the virtue of the agreement that was made with Congress to fully and completely fund this bill, and not doing it, are you really listening? So I think there's still a long way to go before we can reach the promise of this bill. I think the secretary is right that no one disagrees that we want every child to reach his or her potential. The question is whether or not we have in place the proper vehicle, I think there still need to be substantial changes to reflect the unique nature of education in all parts of this country and the unique nature of every single student.

GWEN IFILL: What needs to happen next to perfect this vehicle, in your opinion?

EUGENE HICKOK: We're looking at various issues, we're looking at participation rate, we're looking at how states identify schools.

GWEN IFILL: What do you mean by participation rate?

EUGENE HICKOK: There's a statutory requirement that you have a 95 percent participation rate of your students or you don't make equity or any progress, that's in the statute; there's not much we can do about that. But there are ways states implement testing procedures that we can get to that issue. I think, frankly, that where we are right now is exactly where we thought we'd be two years ago. If we did not have a law that placed among the American people a tough challenge, because of the importance of this challenge, I don't think we'd hear the kind of reaction we've heard. I'm not bothered by it. I welcome it. I think we need to continue this conversation. But you know, the American people are spending upwards of $500 billion a year, and yet in some places 60 percent of the kids aren't on grade level. That's our challenge, and the alternative I think is just unacceptable.

GWEN IFILL: Time for a previous response from Governor Vilsack.

GOV. THOMAS VILSACK: There's no question we're spending resources, but we have to spend these resources because our economic opportunity is linked to a great education system. The chairman of the Federal Reserve, Alan Greenspan basically said it all when he said the education system is the key to the future of this country, it's where innovation and creativity comes from. If we're going to succeed in the goal of this law, we have to adequately fun it and we have to continue to listen more closely to states. There is absolutely a need for greater flexibility, and I would say that if folks anticipated this two years ago we should have built boo the law the flexibility that doesn't exist today.

GWEN IFILL: Governor Vilsack, Secretary Hickok, thank you both very much.

RECAP

JIM LEHRER: Again, the other major developments of this day: Reverberations continued across Europe after the socialists swept to power in Spain. The socialist leader promised again to withdraw from Iraq, unless the United Nations takes over. In Washington, a State Department spokesman said the administration might consider seeking a new U.N. mandate. And a car bomb was found outside the U.S. Consulate in Karachi, Pakistan. Experts defused it with less than five minutes to spare. We'll see you online, and again here Tomorrow evening. I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank you and good night.

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The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer Monday, March 15, 2004