The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

faith and chris paul the senate later they passed out its sales tax repeal measure and send it to the house are taking time both chambers were in recess with the possibility that they may return tonight that's capital so much land wayne good evening to reagan gorbachev

summit again dominates the news this wednesday the two leaders discussed the timetable for soviet withdrawal from afghanistan the us side reported a very good feeling right now about where we are going gorbachev met congressional leaders who also urged him to leave afghanistan we'll have details in our new summer in a moment after the news summary it's all summer senate republican whip alan simpson and house democratic majority leader tom foley reactor their meeting with gorbachev senators dan quayle and carl levin debate the newly signed a missile treaty an american reporter in a soviet writer look at the role of mrs gorbachev and our regular sonnet analyst william highland and madeleine albright continue to tell us what it all maine's new towers communicating the sound of the voice across the country funding also was provided by the station and other public television stations and the

corporation for public broadcasting president reagan and soviet leader gorbachev talk for two more hours today as their summit meeting got down to the issues of afghanistan and the iran iraq war among other things there was an old waffles photo opportunity before the session began and reporters asked former job about the discussion agenda season duties villagers well this is precisely the portion of the program the issues that we are going to discuss with the president right now you know i don't believe those are important and that's a very important consideration they say

something so it will be a disgrace to use a civic leaders came to the white house after a session of the soviet and to say with the congressional leadership they urged him to withdraw soviet troops from afghanistan garbage offset the leadership also sort of the intermediate range nuclear missile treaty signed yesterday will be ratified by the senate congressional leaders came away with these impressions of gorbachev have to be impressed with the caliber of the man and he says nobody's done a lot of things that can be very tough inside he's a shrewd and smart and he knows how to manipulate or at least to utilize to the fullest extent maybe the terminology find enough to his advantage he owed for a cordial very disarming we're candid very direct link in the

first paragraph we said something about beating around abortion that was the way he did it diplomatic niceties sometimes don't get the job done and use phrases like places like getting the bull by the horns and other rich western tapestry of radiology on all it was a very discriminating refrain they understand the language via their own sectors on every question that we made i thought it would explain to good humor and with the i'm standing in with a desire to understand what we're saying our job also invited a group of american editors and publishers to a meeting at the soviet embassy this afternoon it all than intellectuals must be listened to and that the new soviet openness none of glasnost required an exchange of opinion he said editor should take an active role in

that exchange he criticized the us administration for unfairly judging the soviet union is that they should not try to teach the soviet people how to live coverage of was asked if he was an exceptional person he answered that he was just like the other people or any other people that if a normal person in today's world is an exception and he was one this was also a publicly active dave form isn't gorbachev she was welcomed to the white house by mrs reagan the two women talk over coffee and then mrs reagan conducted a thirty minute tour of the presidential mansion they appeared to enjoy themselves and tried to dismiss rumors of a rift between them earlier elena shortz weigel secretary of state george shultz escorted her to the legendary of art where you look at the paintings of georgia o'keeffe that match or twentieth century sculpture collection and other attractions he was at the museum for more than an hour and other news japanese jet fighters fired tracer bullets to chase off a soviet bomb or

that included into japan's airspace today the incident took place off okinawa it was the first time since world war two the japanese warplanes has fired in such a circumstance japan will send a formal complaint to moscow in the philippines the aquino government cop the man who led the attempt to overthrow it last august soldiers surrounded a suburban house and colonel gregorio course when the sun surrendered peacefully along with eight other officers fifty three people died in the abortive coup and president aquino set upon us and planned to kill her back in this country a pistol was found a day near where a pacific southwest airlines commuter jet crashed monday forty three persons were killed in that california tragedy just before the crash the pilot radioed he heard gunshots a former tsa employee reportedly up a suicide message on an answering machine in which he said he planned to kill his former boss old reward that jet the fbi made the phantom

announcement at the crash site and really not in a position at this point to further discuss the weapon other than to let you know what it has been thank you i was envious it was going to crash the fbi also said today the plane's cockpit recorder confirmed an unauthorized entry into the cockpit during the flight this afternoon the federal aviation administrator can order all airlines to ensure that company identification cards are retrieved from firing employees and that's it for the news on late tonight is now on two day two of the summit featuring the congress the treaty and the first light

again the reagan gorbachev some of these are single focus on the newshour much or other jobs attention today was devoted to congress and so ours be <unk> were trump met privately with a small group of congressional leaders and later was introduced to an even bigger group at the state department lunch lawmakers became part of his unit because they will have to ratify or reject the missile treaty and any other treaties that emerge with the first two were the leaders who met with the general secretary this morning house majority leader thomas foley washington state and senate minority leader alan simpson of wyoming they joined us from the senate gallery sanderson jr sounded very enthusiastic moment they're ago about gorbachev's manner of talking to you why was that so well i was rather rich medina rich tapestry western phrases i can understand those he was very forthcoming i think in the first paragraph of those remarks he had no

no sir he simply said that paul i don't like to be around the bush and therefore he just kind of back the old dump truck up when honestly said that he really did appreciate sometimes the congress telling him things in passing resolutions on and the protections and treating them like bad boys and another fast a part of me and tom and share his views is that each one of us got the fire away on our own why about every single issue that they'll only the table what we've been talking about and he'd handle every one of them i think with the exception i think of nicaragua i've been thinking really address that will really are carson florida jury actor well i met him first in moscow in april and it is an impression i had there that he's very confident he's very articulate have some simpson says he likes to speak directly he likes to take up issues even somewhat sensitive and controversial ones and the idea i think they're dressed all the

issues pretty well he said about the subject of the central market even discuss ever present i do the issue of afghanistan was raised did you sense from that exchange that there is going to be any movement on afghanistan in the indies this summit i sense that there was a chance but that the same problems existed and how the soviets would extricate themselves from afghanistan and provide for a reasonably a neutral follow on government i get the impression we still some serious problems in soviet withdrawal from afghanistan where the point was made it in nineteen seventy nine when the soviets invaded afghanistan the resulting treaty was before the senate and that to cause the cell to a treaty to they were drawn in that immediate withdrawal from afghanistan nothing could be that helpful in the ratification process and other aspects of our wish senator simpson did you pick up any glimmer on afghanistan that maybe this week's current events and news there i think

he's ready to say something about thirty he did say that they don't want to leave afghanistan leave a vacuum love another government that is going to be destructive to them on a twenty one hundred kilometer border troublesome to them stop light and someone brought up the comparison of vietnam and afghanistan except afghanistan is on their border vietnam laos many thousands of miles away but i think something is coming out and i think that it will live and in the end senator byrd made quite clear if it comes will be very helpful as we deal with the treaty in april it will help greatly helped to get around sen byrd also said after the meeting we have to be very careful not to be swept off our feet few level headed gentleman is there a danger of the the charm be effective communicator and mr gorbachev of creating an atmosphere of which might sweet some people off with it written senators and said well i guess i've been accused of being naive and politics so i

and i don't mind that because i'm not the work that i am i'm a guy that will trust iowa trust her and then i'll trust someone telling violate that trust and then they violate it and then they have taken on a bitch grizzly that's the way i am but i'm ready to listen to him and i'm ready to watch his actions and i'm ready to see what he does and if he does what he says he's going to do the next time he comes to united states will have a all the congress that wish to visit with him do that i can't help be helpful but he will have us visit with the politburo we can visit with his functionaries many made that commitment from was there that we would have of a seminar or join congress on human rights and i mean thats it really a great groups that person former you feel about this warning muppets where property why i think it's a good warning that i don't imagine that americans are going to or members of congress would be swept off their feet by mario

secretary gorbachev he has an appealing personality is no doubt about that politically when one has had some experience with soviet leaders in past has more the repetition of sort of tired rhetoric here in these very directly speak confidently and he's willing to take on someone sensitive subjects than forthright way so he has an appealing personality but i think we ought to and are agreements with the soviet union on the basis of being able to yeah i have more than just trust that they will keep their agreements and i think they will have in the store and that treaty a verification procedure is utter and usually richard so i would say as the president said that trust but verify and where we ought to be able to continue our relations senator falling and i'm sorry senator since many of your fellow conservatives are raising all kinds of warning our signals about how gorbachev maybe pulling the war were

the eyes of the american people as a conservative yourself how do you feel about that and is his apparent candor and cardiology making a dent in the dowds of some of her colleagues well i have a difficult situation of my own dear colleague mark walton while my friends from childhood marchman iyer on the opposite sides of this one i just don't believe that there are over fifty in hard hard votes against the treaty there many people have questions maybe thirty thirty five but hard votes and if we allow them to present their reservations the conditions which are not quote killer variety i think what many of those conservatives would turn to a person like ted stevens was a conservative and very vital figure with our defense system who's been fifteen times over there and says this is that you never going to get this verification worsley we're going to come under the verification question

among the ratification of ominous wandered from your observation now that mr gorbachev has met so many members of congress on this trip is his manner of speaking is there less propaganda more sensitive toward it is his candor and it is a beginning to break down some of the reservations of people who've had doubts do think in the court's about one thing that kind of self criticism were he says look i have a serious problem getting less completely sold in the soviet union but you i wanna hope that we get it done because the chorus i'm on is irreversible were not going to stop glasnost perestroika we're going forward and our people say well is that change their standard of living is loesser and he said yes it might they said well how much less and those are things that he's got a deal with over there and says the people and leave the phrase tom was there a boulder and have their heads up and a re analyzing and rethinking i think that well they can listen for you think of this man or his presence of propaganda banner in some of your work is today is

that beginning you think to erode some of the doubts and members of congress who'd for a worry about almonds it was sung by the way we have some of our colleagues i think to basically are very distrustful of an agreement with the soviet union very doubtful that those clues will be capped and i don't have to share that view but they do exist in the house and senate agree with senator simpson i think history is going to be ratified overwhelmingly bipartisan vote if someone were sort of opened to thinking about general secretary gorbachev thorough fairway i think you'd have to come away with a sense that he has a very persuasive ability and critically i think there's the sense that most of us have that is really had some put some rest of his own political future in these boxes and well we don't want to they serve agreements and correlations and

simple trust and faith is the man that conveys convictions i think they were persuaded a doubtful person perhaps not a hardliner but about well thank you we must move on listeners and some current and former thank you as we just heard a major part of the summer the story shifts to congress wants these meetings officially end tomorrow because two thirds of the senate must say yes if that in an intermediate range nuclear missile treaty is to become wall and there are several hurdles to clear and thousands of words to be spoken before that as result we preview the argument and the prospects now first with a report on tactics and strategy are congressional correspondent cokie roberts ronald reagan's re to support on capitol hill these days is the president's own california enemy democratic whip alan cranston he warns that ratification of the imf could be tricky the real leadership against a tree will not be direct opposition it will be in direct opposition people don't want to take on and finally said to find treaty we should approve that the rigorous we should

approve a provable that they are making some changes which really would say that if there were changes offered reservation to mehmet understand whatever that would require the president or the general secretary and the soviet union to do something they find impossible that's a little tricky in determining their strategy supporters of the treaty must deal with the fact that the republican leader is not ready to spearhead the battle for ratification father joe is keeping his options open trying to minimize the political problems the pack her sister him as a presidential candidate all of the other republicans running except vice president bush opposed the arms control authorities and conservatives outside of congress have declared war on the tree is a dangerous time for the free world political loyalty is important but it must take a back seat in the survival of the freedom itself is at stake accordingly we had joined together as the anti appeasement

alliance this treaty in appeasement is this a personally difficult situation few years so that rock hard place and i have those possibilities a senator i'm a candidate for president and some would say well the president shouldn't your candidate you look the broad concepts are not going to be a senator i had only so many songs i'm in the senate i think i do have some responsibility social responsibility to be the cheerleader when you say between a rock and a hard place was veronica mars the hard place that annoying governed by paul that you have seventy some percent of the people out there saying this is a good deal so by one of his jump overboard mean and that's something that is a run for come for the reservation's

and did you pick up if you've got a point across the country that maybe the rock hard place is that going to take place in a senate stage two and whether i'm a republican leader or just republican senator with a vote on the only one of the six republicans running for president that a vote dole's political problems would be eased considerably if he's able to convince other republicans to support the treaty it would show he's both a good republican and a good leader what we don't want to happen and is a republican leader as that city for democrats vote for it and the stand for republicans and we have a republican president i think he's made great progress has been condemned by a lot of people in both parties for not doing more on arms control here he's putting it together with gorbachev and as a party we need to support him add the fact that a

conservative president's name is on this treaty should make republican support easier to come by though some question ronald reagan's motives at this point in his presidency democrat john graham it compares president reagan's actions on arms control to president nixon's opening to china he was of a different political mindset and so he was willing to open up people had a great great feeling that he wouldn't do it unless it really truly was in our interest whether people might've been looked at as giving away the store lord i suppose or is some of that feeling with those reagan now but on the other hand i guess some people are a little bit suspicious in that the president is now entering close to his last year of his presidency and his very very anxious to have an arms control agreement as a legacy and perhaps that's a factor to be considered some republicans openly complain that ronald reagan has given away this still on this agreement in order to

secure his place in history the treaty opponents are not quite sure of their strategy on ratification wyoming's malcolm wiley thinks ratification might make sense because failure to ratify could give the soviets a propaganda victory wallop ways that against concerns that the soviets might not comply with the treaty both the propaganda value of their service was a strategic that i think there maybe i may make some attempt to for compliance or forsaken plants close understanding on diversity realizing that the senate understanding is not binding on the parties at it please give future people who want to know what was going on in the minds of those who debated and a reason to say in the case of violation when there ought to be a withdrawal from the term significance of the street

treaty supporters are happy to provide senators have the opportunity to vote on such issues as compliant as long as those votes are not binding i think there may be some decorations are understanding maybe than reservations in which that require renegotiation but the present mr gorbachev let the you know the us or something you know somebody just totally mess on the us declarations and understanding and right now that's the chief aim of the treaty opponents to delay gratification for as long as possible and the belief that the soviet union will take an action on some spot on the globe that would turn american public opinion against the arms control treaty now the some flavor of the debate on substance build a common judy woodruff knows the treaty for more on what the battle for ratification of the imf treaty will look like we have joining us from capitol hill to members of the senate armed services committee republican senator dan quayle of indiana that

criticize the treaty and democratic senator carl levin of michigan who has expressed his support for it senator quayle is that cokie roberts' dissent day your and other opponents chief aim is to delay this as long as possible is that what you're up and to me i wouldn't put my hand self down as an opponent his tree i am one that is concerned and have some very a deep reservations about where we're going with history i hope that we have a very good debate actually get a good understanding on some commitments from the administration on how we're going to deal with the conventional armed forces and how we're going to deal with it perhaps a lack of compliance of that i'll build a vote for this treaty because there are some very good positive things about the street the army corps reductions and furthermore having be a patience and sticking to a position and having the soviet union walk out saying that they would never come back to the bargaining table they basically backtracked on

every single position so i want to look at the good things of history i do have some concerns and that will be a very long debate i think in the senate the one of substance and one of a great deal of legitimacy and one that i think the administration will certainly help open up an answer questions or answer concerns because i don't think they have every night when senator dole was just suggesting that that really all you and some others who have some problem with the treaty can do at this point is you can't really attach any binding amendments all you can really do is is that have some understanding of it are you pretty much resigned to that i think what senator dole say that we would probably not be able to amend the actual text of the treaty that would necessitate sending it back to geneva for further negotiation that would be a very difficult proposition and lesser we find the sun will defects are flaws in the street because of a very current up fashion that the last part of that was negotiated therefore i agree with senator dole that what we will get our

history our knowledge some reservations about some understanding so for example in the area of conventional forces but we need to have an understanding of two things ministration either were willing to pursue a very good position rather quickly on how we're going to go forward with a conventional arms control in reductions or we're going to have to make some real commitments to conventional buildup which is going to cost some money in their hands sen levin about that what about that senator bennet if there is an attempt to attach agreements on the conventional weapons reduction well actually gorillas are aware that their agreements between the congress and the administration has one thing that doesn't require a change in the treaty those agreements can be reached it anytime i'm not sure that though the key element here is also the administration we've been trying for fifteen years to negotiate conventional treat with the soviets it's very complicated the balance is very complicated and the conventional forces area and chairman of that

subcommittee senator quail is the ranking republican on the subcommittee that hearings in the conventional ballads a very complex balance in many ways and so would be very typical i would think in a few months to negotiate something which resolves something which we haven't been able to resolve in fifteen years but most of those wanna strengthen our conventional forces some of us like me would transfer money from some redundant be stabilizing nuclear weapons systems into the conventional forces so we could strengthen those forces you mean as part of an attachment history are no separate know the city was set while it sounds like senator lennon sang at any rate year and is it so difficult to negotiate some sort of a conventional agreement that it's not realistic to try and illustrate it well i don't believe that we're going to negotiate a conventional agreement with history but what we're going to do is to get an understanding on what the strategy of the administration is to place more of our policy of deterrence and conventional forces and providing for peace in western europe than we have in the past in the past we relied upon these nuclear weapons

like the present is in the ground launched cruise missiles to deter war now we're going to become to like more upon our conventional forces to have a wart free europe if we're going to do that which i believe that we will resist free will that she get ratified that we need to do some things in conventional forces would have a tremendous anything nobody down in connection with the ratification of this yeah absolutely and i intend to push a very good understanding with the administration on what needs to be done in the area of conventional forces to get that that senator levin have a problem with them the understanding which is referred to by senator dole out is our understanding of the treaty that set the word understanding means that we can try to reach understanding with this president a number of things that have over the year that between the congress in the present as that really nothing to do with any formal ratification process the understanding which everyone makes reference to his our understanding of the meaning of victory

and that are negotiated agreement with our own president well just to make it clear you're not talking about some sort of an attachment which would require going back to geneva but that at this point i do not the worst see an amendment the world at understanding which would basically force a renegotiation of history i might offer a small cabin that most of us have not read the details of the tree for the more we have a lot of the classified that information and there may be some technical problem with the tree that we don't know a lot but i don't believe that is our main goal is to force renegotiate a re re negotiation tree are mango have concerns about that this treaty is how does it ever play with the start agreement what kind of presence in the imf agreement should or should not be carried forward and start what we going to do on our conventional forces verification adequate are not adequate

or even try to attach understandings or are other language that would that would really that yes and in a couple instances one i believe it was a fundamental mistake of this treaty to give up their ground launched conventional businesses at the same time that senator levin dan quayle are talking about building up our conventional forces this treaty gives up or five hundred kilometers of conventional ground launched cruise missile i don't want them to make that mistake and start and i will be pushing for to try to have a senate bill on record saying that we need to have a conventional cruise missile and we should not give up senator levin is that acceptable to you and other supporters you can't negotiate the next agreement in this agreement's would be a mistake for us to try to negotiate the start treaty during the ratification debate undecided have treaty and i don't think it's going to work and that would be viewed as a killer amendment as far as the ground launched cruise missiles concern we have a number of other assistance they can do the job of the ground launch cruise missile including they slip embassy launched

cruise missile including the air launched cruise missile and a number of other systems that we have to remember that this agreement only addresses two thousand warheads out of the fifty two thousand nuclear warheads which exist in this world for so for those of us who are worried about conventional imbalances week after that we got a long way to go before there's a reliance on a conventional to turn fifty thousand nuclear weapons will be left after this agreement is ratified we've got a long long way to go before we have a great concern about any convention bounces dna i say we must avoid exaggerating the convention bounce there's a number of areas where we are stronger including in our the number of troops we have more the training is far better experience is far better and so forth so we ought to be aware of exaggerations of conventional and bounces and realize that all the nato defense ministers have supported this imf tree despite

claims that that would leave us the prey of convention bounce center we thank you both for being with us senator levin center well thank you and that the general impression of summit conviviality the only discordant note is in repairing reports that a certain call mrs develop between nancy reagan and raisa gorbachev both women denied that today when mrs gorbachev amid a tour of the white house with mrs reagan who's in such reports were silly we'll talk about this aspect of superpower diplomacy in a moment first correspondent charles cross has a report on this is gorbachev visit to washington by the time i sent werber job arrived in washington this week she'd already because of personality in her own rocky attractive well dressed and self assured she embodies than soviet him a husband mikhail gorbachev is drawing to project the broth americans and especially the props were

eager to catch a glimpse of this unusual soviet woman on her first trip to the united states ms bonnie carroll thank you but despite witnesses girl which are set at the national gallery today she seems to be under wraps there is speculation but because of criticism at home about her lavish clothes and her high visibility as his brother charles public role during the summit has been kept deliberately low key apparently the reduced press coverage of her activities the soviet embassy has refused to release <unk> gorbachev scheduled until the last moment even then she skipped starts in this scheduled appointments according to the new york times is more conservative on this trip to washington and on previous trips abroad

but despite the apparent effort to keep this is gorbachev in the shadow of a relationship with nancy reagan has been in the spotlight ever since the summit began while their husbands have talked of improved relations between the two countries' rumor has it that a kind of cold war has developed between the two first ladies supposedly it began last year when mrs reagan became annoyed witnesses or rexroth because he accompanied her husband to this summit in like you've met mrs reagan observe protocol remaining at home in the united states is on this is called the trout stole the show today at the white house both first ladies repeatedly denied reports of a rift between them but by the end of the day and this is gorbachev was at the center of another controversy asked what she thought of the white house she said it wasn't much of a home it reminded her of a museum they had two years now this is gorbachev and the way in which she's related to mrs reagan alexander acosta was a

saudi official who defected in nineteen seventy eight she's become a businesswoman in the united states and a journalist margaret warner is white house correspondent for newsweek magazine ms werner what is the basis for all the stories of mrs reagan illnesses gorbachev are cool to each other is there i think there's a basis it's fair to say that was rated went into this not really knowing discomfort very well but not much cared for what she did know about her mother right because of this one big issue in the first couple of years ago apparently mrs reagan tried a number of different conversation topics and feminist told friends afterwards davis's gorbachev just that marks a stark transmission answer now as a mystery here i think that the media attention has the story listen now

ms saar costello do you wear see any basis for this urban school that's between i think the cultural differences and the fact that the latest in front of their differences sizes and then when there was not much that stature to discuss their differences on the same level of people in their cars but when it comes to wives the one that we should they have is with manners of which is there but you know unfortunately is a little short short on good manners i think so because there were no way to beijing that cultural gap which is very profound because of the different structural services latin american society is part of the protocol and that i have a feeling that she hasn't done that so she does have is a very specific task she is packaged together with her husband the present so the image on the one hand that you wish is that that the reason that news of the richer was visible abroad is that

the images we are like you and here is the first lady that will finally have and she's smart and she's bright and she dresses well we just like you want that again she has to present a different image because she has to convince the world that so that women at different from the deck of an american women that day out you have a little pot barons that they participate in political life etcetera etcetera which is all a tool but it's part of the package and did you see our ms warner did you see in covering mr b's evidence of these differences between absolutely i think that is the essential problem and today was the perfect example of that during the two wardens is gorbachev had clearly studied up about american history and in some of the art work that she would say and she kept asking ms reagan very specific questions about this painter or this piece of furniture they were questions was as reagan apparently really couldn't answer we got a little awkward though there was a curator there it is someone perhaps being very sensitive to israeli

with back off a little bit and recognizing it was uncomfortable units that song little and is gorbachev did not did not at all and so by the end of the story mrs reagan's quite uncomfortable that they are i understand that and ask us to tell us this more i understand that it's considered a mark of good manners if you're going to visit someone that you learn a new study find out a little bit about the person you can see what you can see however to american sensibility it appeared as if jesus' gorbachev was trying to out statements writing or work is nick businesses come back to his caustic businesses gorbachev's wrote a different outside the soviet union and it is inside well definitely so this is a bit of a western consumption i think congress would wish that she would be invisible inside a soviet union unfortunately that doesn't work because the table for using american express in london was one of the biggest he had an underground radio in moscow i didn't realize existed at that

if this or all of that she is not supposed to flaunt inside the soviet union because the lifestyles of the region famous in the user's time the lifestyle of the upper class the party elite and a wooden mallet that they'll leave differently but there's supposed to be mainly kind a postcard and civilian was eons and things like they're flaunting it that doesn't there are incredible at the respect and love is there evidence so among the soviet officials who are handling that aspect of the trip that they are sensitive to this question of mrs margaret the charge in making this country have either you ms warner know what are they doing well they got out walked over they interview that the job had with that bomb brocco and that was the bond that concerned me says coverage of and how much he discusses look for political affairs that is the lullaby that was older but in this debate

here in washington this week are what what evidence is there is one of a you know well yes in talking to the white house i should say in who i was talking to but the people are planning the trip with the kgb and the soviet security said that in discussing mr gorbachev schedule and mrs gorbachev the sensitivity on her schedule was much greater and one official said it was almost as if everything had to be signed off on back in moscow i think that's the reason that she delayed so long accepting mrs reagan's invitation was probably not to be wrote it probably had to do with political delicacy of her position but the us officials were very conscious and are the us officials showing some sensitivity about the supposed tensions with mrs reagan how are they handling that i think they think it's a tempest in a teapot i mean in the white house does have signed a ball and i think nancy reagan has her on the ball and that is her husband's place in history and from mrs reagan after a very very difficult year what's important is the triumph that that's that she sees in this event so i

don't detect much more than kind of amusement park white house official you're you cover the white house is there concrete evidence that about the stories that are circulating that it was largely mrs reagan who who who wanted to see a day an arms deal made on putting it very crudely now to our in order to enhance her husband's reputation and prosperity is there any actual evidence of that of course as i'm sure you know covering the white house there's really concrete evidence of anything we depend on people inside the white house to know the reagans to pass on their observations so our information is only as good as their observations but it was very very strongly felt within the white house but she had nudged him along certainly and end you know in the way that she has influence with him aren't served it to shape his approach as his second term began

this cluster the idea mrs gorbachev playing the role of a kind of decorative partner in the west to show that they are more like us than we thought they were before i noticed that a suburb tv official said today that she has a phd in philosophy and a lot of that is quite a serious piece of credentials her credentialing it would be by american standards were what were you know about her well so do i i have the same degree and i was fishing the same discipline marxism leninism on the college level it's a nice cool shit and on demanding money back singe of that allows it to have been so free time to the shopping it is one of the books that comes with being a life of a high level official it in other words it's a pro forma thing is it is not in an evidence of a great intellectual achievement well that that's fine in my dissertation was not really difficult to write

because writing a dissertation in marxism the only thing that does it quite gifted young not creative you'd like to become creative you get the label only major news and probably was your job so it's essentially a compilation of platitudes which you present the opponents whom you choose yourself you get your degree awarded be a salaried babbles you teach my dog days a week so as i said it's one of the port's that that goes with the husband's job i have had to work for a month was like what why has been a sailor that it that is it activates or the philosophy as well we don't want to go on but we need to make a pair of his customers wanted them to vote we wrap up the day now with our two recurring summit alice wheeler hi allen and madeleine albright ms albright was on president carter's national security council staff and is now professor georgetown university this trial and is the editor of foreign affairs quarterly and was deputy national security

advisor to president ford he just returned from a meeting at the soviet embassy that gorbachev conducted with publishing and other media executives i'm not going ask you first madeline albright about your phd and rescue brought about we discuss how watch it or you know i'd be a gorbachev and what happens a lot he did i think what he did yesterday with the academics intellectual scene he presented rather a long speech at the beginning and others on this yesterday apparently a very dynamic performance here's a strong formidable man who knows what he believes in is the very persuasive want you to accept what he's telling telling his audience and he does it with a certain amount of promotion and indeed as the meeting wore on after about an hour the cool calm gorbachev that we have seen in the arrival ceremonies and gave way to i think are more russian emotional man who was really in there swinging will tell us specifically about the incident that involved watching on the pool the us the question you know

about the two signs of that he interrupted you unfortunately all i was hearing was the english i did not hear that the instantaneous that answer tell us about what happened when your follow up question and what he said when he invited he had after the end of his little remark it invited the us to join in a conversation and what he got was questions that won twenty seven of question the one here which are thanked and so i said to him that down i had protests appeared in previous ahmanson and we all in the room knew about previous visits his was the third visit from khrushchev to russia and what was it about this meeting that gave him or give us a guarantee that it would be successful but he had started by saying we must put aside things of the past and he directed that from a semester island you must decide now ideas of the past and i said well we can't because they're with us and it's those memories of failed some months and failed relations that he

propping back up and then he said but it is different this time there's a popular a feeling about it the other two powers must change and if we don't then the people will take over so to speak and do it for us but that was of a rather unemotional cold blooded response compared to its response and human rights to get very exercised about it tell us about well he was asked a question in effect he said i'm tired of this who are you to judge our country we don't judge your country were not on trial well you have your human rights problems we have are as you keep yours we'll keep ours and we'll both go ahead but he cited a great length a note with great emotion and in effect he said i keep getting asked this obviously this is an issue that's beginning to get going he made a long speech about the arms race very a very strong speech about the current agreement that you just sign saying it's time to move on i

we must put aside all thinking the thing that he said i suppose a dozen times was the struggle in the modern world is between the old way in the new way or thinking a new thing and if we stick to the past we're going to have more confrontations more blogs and if we go off in a new direction and we can accomplish a great deal and was he suggesting that that you and the others in that room were also part of the old thinking i think he's trying to tell us that i think he was saying that many of you are here for the an older generation and you're sticking to things of the past the stereotypes of the past he said many times he gave as an example of the statement by the white house press spokesman before he arrived that this is a meeting of old enemies news about how can we have a new beginning if you're willing to think of things in that fraction so i was a formidable performance and it is obviously a very impressive site also quite emotional but his performance all it

was a supporter came away with no no i'm sorry if i don't mean it was all that carefully more calculated and they're constructed i mean i think the real mikhail gorbachev begins to come through me feel very strongly about many things he obviously realizes that he is in the substantial struggle inside his own country and abroad to put it put forward his own new policy or whatever you wanna call it and he keeps coming back to that team dominates almost every presentation well i was listening to that tape in russian and it was very interesting to me to listen to him talk about the forces present in the soviet union one of the questions he was asked was we hear all the time that you've got problems with the politburo and you've got various problems and he can have a lip synced well first of all you are listened to any rumors and you get too involved in that and it's your western press that's making this up on the other hand he did make clear that he is going to have a lot

of problems in moving forward as i can the thing that fills a little bit of the fact the old versus the new aa and he seems and watching him he really does look as though he's very involved and dynamic it was kind of interesting to watch and respond and to be able to deal with western publishing representatives in a very forthcoming way and kind of bantering back and forth these things and it impossible to accommodate as i would say absolutely this is and this is a man i couldn't help remembering we must tell our audience didn't see this interview in fact when he interrupted ut started taking you on you set up by courtney if i misquote you i don't think i'm going to get into an argument with the general secretary of the soviet embassies are core questions he said you're right a very intimate great deal of damage

out but he has a he has a sense of him at a serious this is a man i think with a sense of mission and probably are much more driven and we give him credit when we seeing him rather set pieces forties stage he knows what he's going to say but as he gets carried away and after all this was on soviet television images of this you know the thing that you were being filmed the sports talk publicly about mission now we week when we open this or the other night you all talked about what we have to bring that were almost there i mean this is as the summit is almost over and what is the what works and when were you picking up as for what he's actually going to get in addition to the treaty that was signed yesterday asked so far it's hard to see what he's going to happen or what is happening there are there discussions that there may be some draw from afghanistan the question is how he can portray that as a victory for and so i think woody can say that he's gotten is a good dialogue with members of

congress kind of a sense that they understand how important this treaty is apparently he has told them that he will not go forward with any kind of pain no movement on the stark talks if the treaty is not ratified i mean he has the sense and rightfully so that there'd been assaulted treaty was not ratified and therefore he believes the congress needs to deliver before he can make any further concessions now ratification we've been talking about it earlier in the program robin to talk to those people on those senators on the hill about this you've been talking to members of the senate also he did he had is is that then very well the sure thing man well now i don't think anything's a sure thing i think they have a sense that they have a good fast track going the question is whether they would be able to go forward with the senate foreign relations committee is saying the data look for is not so much december eighth nineteen eighty seven but every fifteen nineteen eighty eight when they will report out a resolution of ratification they are hoping that along with that they will have some kind of a

package which will deal with the various concerns of the various senators are that when it goes to the senate floor they will have a roll call vote on on all these particular concerns thereby avoiding a fight allison don you and your fellow media moguls so what was your reading now when the meeting was over the second and last what and our land when it was over us to whether or not he had them but about whether the other representatives all the major networks and newspapers magazines et cetera that they were but we're gonna be behind the ratification of this treaty another with him i wouldn't say that i don't know how the group lured voters also i think the fact that human rights keeps coming up is an indication that it's not like it was another say nineteen seventy two in an arms control agreement standing by itself is no longer good enough there has to be something more to the relationship and simply regulating course he's

got that message it was made made is i think it's she's gotten the message and he doesn't know how to cope with that because what it means is real concessions human rights afghanistan perhaps even in the armament few concessions that he doesn't really feel that he needs to make now so i suspect that the summit has not reached that kind of turning point and tonight laden working group for tomorrow morning early the bottom line will finally be written and that bottom line is that you think there is a bottom line on human rights with the commerce now but i think there can come out of this the ability of the united states to say we really cold like it is and he now has the message that there has to be movement on something other than the regulation of missiles that level right there on stage and we're not like you're much and in the main story of the day the reagan gorbachev

summit mr reagan and mikhail gorbachev move their discussions to questions like soviet withdrawal from afghanistan gorbachev also met with congressional leaders launched with secretary of state george shultz and how the late afternoon session with american newspaper publishes an editor is the singing of our jobs and retain president and mrs reagan at a state dinner at the soviet embassy in their opening remarks the two leaders talked about continuing problems in us soviet relations so we've come to this summit without illusions with no attempts to gloss over the big differences that divide us differences that reached the core values which run which are political systems are based like we said even so we can make progress even so we can find areas of agreement and cooperation night i'm robert mcneill whistler tomorrow night good night for the macneil lehrer newshour has provided by at and t combining everything people like about telephones with everything from computers to make

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