The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

Intro

ROBERT MacNEIL: Good evening. These are the day's top headlines. Trans World Airlines will merge with Continental and New York Air. United Airlines pilots stayed on strike to back flight attendants. The Reagan administration announced a $250 million aid package to Jordan. Retail sales fell in May, dashing hopes that consumer spending would stimulate the economy. Jim Lehrer is away tonight; Judy Woodruff is in Washington. Judy?

JUDY WOODRUFF: After the news summary we have two focus segments, a newsmaker interview and a profile on the NewsHour. First on the volatile issue of segregated housing: a realtor and an open housing activist debate whether there should be tests done to find out if there's been discrimination. Next a documentary report on the Sullivan Principles, guiding some U.S. companies doing business in South Africa. Then a newsmaker interview with the head of the nation's only artificial heart program about a possible slowdown in his efforts. And finally a profile of Joseph Papp, extraordinary man of the theater.News Summary

MacNEIL: More big changes in the airline industry made news today. Trans World Airlines agreed to a merger that will create one of the largest fleets in the country. Trans World will be acquired by Texas Air Corporation, the company which already owns Continental Airlines and New York Air. The reported price is $793.5 million. TWA has been seeking a friendly buyer to prevent a takeover by New York investor Carl Icahn. The merger would be another major step for Texas Air president Frank A.Lorenzo, who took Continental Airlines into Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 1983. Since that drastic reorganization, including reduced staff and salaries and voiding of union contracts, Continental has emerged as a strong carrier again. Meanwhile, the three-week strike of the nation's largest air carrier, United, remains unresolved. Elizabeth Brackett reports from Chicago.

ELIZABETH BRACKETT [voice-over]: It's not over until it's over in the United Airlines strike. Despite a tentative agreement announced well over 24 hours ago, the pickets are still up for United's pilots and flight attendants.

MARY BETH WEBER, flight attendant [addressing flight attendants]: It's not over until each and every one of us can walk back in there with our heads held high and a smile on our face.

BRACKETT [voice-over]: The pilots' union executive council met behind closed doors for most of the day at this suburban Chicago motel to thrash out the final wording on the new contract. The two-tier wage scale up to the level of captain remains the key economic issue in the settlement. But pilot union spokesman John Leroy says the three critical issues that have held up the pilots' return to work will be decided not by the company and the union, but by a federal judge.

JOHN LEROY, pilots' union: Three of the back-to-work issues: the new-hired pilots, sometimes called as the 500 or the 570; the superseniority, sometimes referred to as the rebid; and the pay of the replacement pilots will all be covered by Judge Bua's decision.

BRACKETT [voice-over]: Pilots were reluctant to react on camera, but most we spoke to were not pleased with the decision to hand those critical issues over to a judge to resolve.

[on camera] But the full union membership does not vote to approve the contract. Only the union's master executive council can vote the contract up or down. But even with its approval there is still one more hurdle before the airline is back in the skies: a separate back-to-work agreement must be worked out with the flight attendants.

[voice-over] When and if all is finally resolved, it will still take one to two weeks before the airline is flying at full strength once more.

MacNEIL: Judge Nicholas Bua will continue hearing the pilots' unfair labor practices suit in United States district court tomorrow.

In another major business story today, two of the world's largest computer makers, Burroughs and Sperry, said they had started talks aimed at a merger. Burroughs, based in Detroit, and Sperry, in New York, gave no further details. Last year Burroughs had sales of just over $5 billion and Sperry $3.5 billion. A combination of the two would create the world's second largest computer maker behind IBM.

The government reported today that Americans cut back spending on expensive items like cars last month and retail sales dropped 0.8 . That May decline was the biggest since last July. The Commerce Department figures disappointed analysts who'd been looking for continued strong consumer demand to keep the economy moving ahead, despite problems in the manufacturing sector. But the bad news was cushioned by better news for April, where revised figures showed retail sales rising nearly three times as much as previously estimated. Today's retail sales report was not greeted well on Wall Street. Stocks were broadly lower with the Dow Jones industrial average down over 16 points, closing at 1290.10. Judy?

WOODRUFF: Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi told a joint session of Congress today that he has deep reservations about President Reagan's plans to put weapons in space. In an address in the House chamber, the Indian leader appealed for nuclear disarmament and then referred to the administration's so-called Star Wars project without calling it by name.

RAJIV GANDHI, Prime Minister of India: India and the nonaligned movement fervently advocate disarmament, especially nuclear disarmament. Our ultimate objective must be general and complete disarmament under effective international supervision. We may -- [applause] We may move towards these goals in phases, through arms control which seeks to progressively lower the level at which the balance of armaments is maintained. We are concerned about any new dimensions to the arms race. This only makes the ultimate objective more difficult to achieve. Hence our deep reservation about the militarization of outer space.

WOODRUFF: It was reported today that the Reagan administration has decided to provide advanced military technology and weaponry to India, which has expressed interest in advanced surveillance and fighter aircraft, air defense and antisubmarine weapons.

MacNEIL: The White House said today it's asking Congress for $250 million in economic aid to Jordan. The announcement gave no details of how the money would be spent. Earlier this year the administration proposed providing $750 million worth of arms to Jordan, and that idea met strong objections in Congress.

And in Portugal, the Social Democratic members of the cabinet resigned, breaking up a coalition that has governed for two years. Prime Minister Mario Soares, who heads the Socialist Party, said he will also resign, opening the way to a new coalition or a general election.

WOODRUFF: The Reverend Leon Sullivan, author of a code of conduct which some U.S. companies use in doing business with South Africa, today told a congressional committee that he believes South Africa is on the threshold of revolution and that Congress needs to take additional action. Testifying before members of the Senate banking subcommittee, Sullivan said if the practice of racial separation known as apartheid isn't ended soon, he would seek even more drastic action against South Africa.

Rev. LEON SULLIVAN, author, "The Sullivan Principles": It is clear to me that a deadline is needed for conclusive action in South Africa. It is my view, therefore, that if apartheid has not in fact ended legally and actually as a system, statutorally [sic],@1 within the next 24 months, there should be a total United States economic embargo against South Africa and the withdrawal of all American companies.

WOODRUFF: Later in the program we have a documentary report on Reverend Sullivan and the way his guidelines for American business have worked.

And finally, the Pentagon was told today to fire its top civilian auditor. The order came from the Merit Systems Protection Board. Charles Starrett Jr., the director of the Defense Contract Audit Agency, was accused of transferring a staff auditor who had charged the Pratt & Whitney Company with contract abuse in 1983. That was denied by the defense contractor. The Merit Systems Board also ordered two other Audit Agency officials demoted. Today's ruling marks the first time a federal official has been ordered removed from office for retaliating against a whistle blower. Housing Bias?

MacNEIL: How do authorities catch landlords or realtors who discriminate against minorities? There's an interesting proposal before the Congress and it's what we look at first tonight. The idea is to stage tests by sending people with similar incomes but different racial or ethnic backgrounds to buy or rent housing. If landlords or real estate dealers discriminate or steer minorities to certain neighborhoods, the test could be used as evidence to prove it in court. The Reagan administration is pushing a new fund of some $4 million to help community groups set up such tests. But the move is being fought by the National Association of Realtors. They argue the money could be used unfairly. After lots of behind-the-scenes lobbying the House Housing Subcommittee today postponed a vote on the proposal until next week. We have both sides of the argument now. Phyllis Spiro of the Open Housing Council [sic] here in New York City supports federally funded testing. William North, general counsel of the National Association of Realtors, opposes it. He joins us tonight from public station WTTW-Chicago.

First to you, Ms. Spiro. Why with all the open housing and fair housing legislation of recent years, is federally funded testing necessary?

PHYLLIS SPIRO: Housing discrimination goes on in such a wide pattern over such a wide variety of areas with such a minimal amount of funding that's able to be obtained by private fair housing groups, that I think it's essential that the federal government provide the funds to fair housing groups to help them enforce our federal laws.

MacNEIL: And this kind of testing has been used at the local level -- for instance, by you here in New York, has it not?

Ms. SPIRO: Indeed, the Open Housing Center has been doing testing since its inception, which is 1964.

MacNEIL: And how have you funded it up 'til now?

Ms. SPIRO: By a wide variety of means, and we manage to survive year by year in trying to raise funds to do housing work and then use what is extra to do the fair housing work. We have had a few federal grants; we try to raise money from foundations. But there are limitations on most foundation money, and their priorities change, and one cannot always support oneself on it.

MacNEIL: Why is testing necessary?

Ms. SPIRO: It is the only way of uncovering evidence of discrimination. One might think one has met discrimination, one might believe one has met discrimination, but the only way to uncover the evidence of it and to prove it is to send out a tester who goes prepared exactly like you, if you are black or Latin, or whatever group is being discriminated against, who asks for exactly the same kind of housing, in the same price bracket, in the same area.

MacNEIL: Tell me how it works in practice. Give us a simple example of how it works.

Ms. SPIRO: A simple example. And it's easier to confine it to one group on each side. A black person goes into a landlord's office or a real estate broker's office and says, "Here I am, a single person. I make X dollars a year. I am looking for housing in a price bracket that meets that salary requirement." It's not something that's, you know, way out of line. "And I'd like to live in X area." The real estate broker or the landlord will say, "Gee, I'm sorry. (A) I don't have anything in your price bracket. (B) I don't have anything available. I'm sorry I don't have any keys right now. No, you really wouldn't want that area anyway." But no, mostly, "I don't have anything." We then send a white person behind them --

MacNEIL: And that person comes back and complains to someone like you.

Ms. SPIRO: Complains to us. "Listen, I see ads in the paper and every time I call there on the telephone they tell me they have an apartment. And when I come in there and they see that I'm black, somehow everything disappears." That is the most common form of discrimination as to --

MacNEIL: So then what happens?

Ms. SPIRO: -- a wide variety of other sophisticated kinds. Then a white person goes quickly behind that person. If indeed it's necessary, then the black person will make a recontact to make sure -- "Here I am again. Are you sure you don't have anything?" "No, I don't." The white person then goes to that same agency and, if possible, tries to encounter the same agent, if that's possible. The theory being that all agents, in their real estate office, particularly, have access to the same available information.

MacNEIL: Now, and then is the evidence of that tester admissible and has it been used in court to prove discrimination?

Ms. SPIRO: Absolutely. It has been upheld in every level of administrative body and court up to the Supreme Court.

MacNEIL: Okay. Mr. North, you've been listening to this. Why do you oppose testing?

WILLIAM NORTH: Well, we oppose testing on two bases. The first basis is that there is a fundamental conflict between the fair housing organizations and between elements of the government concerning what constitutes fair housing. We find that in some instances fair housing is viewed by the governmental agencies as meaning nondiscrimination, in other instances as integration maintenance. And so we need the rules of the game. The second principle, of course, is that we are very concerned about the procedures and policies and practices that are introduced in the testing programs. We do not believe that it is appropriate for the government to fund vigilante programs.

MacNEIL: Well, what about the kind of situation that Ms. Spiro has just described? Would your association be against that kind of testing?

Mr. NORTH: That type of testing has gone on for many years, at least 15 to my personal knowledge, and has been recognized by the Supreme Court as a legitimate form of testing, if it is done properly and under appropriate controls. However, we've had many instances arise in which these so-called fair housing organizations have given special bounties or benefits to testers -- for example, a percentage of any recovery that is yielded on the results of the testing program. I think there's another aspect to this, and that is that you have to divide testing into two parts. The situation where somebody has sought a house legitimately and has failed to receive it, and then there is a test to verify whether or not he failed to receive his home because he was discriminated against. What we are more concerned about and which -- and the thing that this money proposed by HUD is --

MacNEIL: HUD, excuse me, is the Department of Housing and Urban Development.

Mr. NORTH: Pardon me. The money that the Department of Housing and Urban Development is committed to is for the purpose of what we call sweeps -- that is, there isn't a bonafide testing homebuyer in the whole picture.

MacNEIL: I see. Let's go back to Ms. Spiro. Is there a conflict, as you understand it, between what discrimination really is?

Ms. SPIRO: I would like to address one point that Mr. North made, the rules of the game. The rules of the game are Title VIII, and Title VIII says -- some groups may interpret it some way and government agency or policies may be another way. The rules of the game are Title VIII. It is against the law to refuse to rent or sell or make differences in terms because of color, race, marital status and sex. And that's the rules of the game, and that's the ones we want to stick to.

MacNEIL: Mr. North?

Mr. NORTH: Well, that's the rules that she says she wants to stick to. Unfortunately, those aren't the rules that HUD is supporting and they aren't the rules that the Civil Rights Division are supporting, and they are in utter and complete conflict with each other. HUD is --

Ms. SPIRO: It is not my experience. The fair housing groups across this country -- and we're in contact with all of them in one form or way or another -- follow those rules of the game, to see that the law is enforced.

MacNEIL: Mr. North, what about Ms. Spiro's point that discrimination goes on and this kind of testing is the only way to get at it and get evidence of it?

Mr. NORTH: Well, I think it would be appropriate to check not only the real estate brokers but also the home sellers. This is one of the concerns that we have. All of these testing programs are focused at the real estate broker but not at the home seller, and the real estate broker is the agent of the home seller. I think that this is indicative of the dual standard, the double standard which exists throughout this whole area.

MacNEIL: You mean real estate brokers are being made scapegoats for what home sellers privately --

Mr. NORTH: I don't think --

MacNEIL: Is that what you're saying?

Mr. NORTH: Yes, I don't think that there is any question about that.

Ms. SPIRO: I would say that most people who wish to put their homes up for sale for the most part do list them with real estate brokers, and they do exert a great amount of influence about who gets shown what. Real estate brokers would be covered completely and comply with the law if they showed to all people, no matter what color they were, the kind of homes that they were requesting to do. If indeed then behind that the owner of the home chose to discriminate, then some action would be taken against them. But the brokers would be complying with the law if they indeed took people out to see what they were requesting to see and not discriminate for them.

Mr. NORTH: That is simply not true. We are presently being sued by several fair housing organizations for precisely refusing to participate in affirmative steering, benign steering programs which have been established by the very people who would now start testing us.

Ms. SPIRO: I want to address the kind of testing that I know that we experience that is to make Title VIII effective and to be enforced.

MacNEIL: Do you believe that the real estate industry is guilty of widespread discriminatory practices?

Ms. SPIRO: They most certainly are. I know that from evidences in my organization's testing, and I certainly know it on a personal level because I have participated as a white tester.

MacNEIL: Mr. North?

Mr. NORTH: Well, we disagree fundamentally with that proposition.

Ms. SPIRO: I'm sure you do.

Mr. NORTH: We think it is an isolated instance and we think --

Ms. SPIRO: It is not isolated. I've been testing for 25 years, sir.

Mr. NORTH: There are law enforcement officers that are charged with the responsibility of enforcing the law and we do not see it appropriate to establish vigilante groups.

Ms. SPIRO: There's nothing vigilante about a standardized, professionally run fair housing group, and that is what is going on across this country.

MacNEIL: What do you mean by "vigilante groups," Mr. North?

Mr. NORTH: Vigilante groups, people who have a vested interest in the problem, not in its solution.

Ms. SPIRO: Fair housing groups' whole purpose is to find an answer to the practice of discrimination, to stop it and make equal opportunity for all people possible. That's their only goal.

Mr. NORTH: And we have --

Ms. SPIRO: They have no hidden agenda.

Mr. NORTH: They certainly do. And we have, as one of our code of ethics, equal performance and equal treatment to all citizens, all home buyers. We have the same objectives.

Ms. SPIRO: On paper. But in actuality that is not what the real estate industry is doing, otherwise we would not have segregated neighborhoods.

MacNEIL: Let him answer.

Mr. NORTH: We have segregated neighborhoods because the law of this country provided for restrictive ordinances and for discriminatory policies. For example, the --

Ms. SPIRO: You're going back 45, 50 years.

Mr. NORTH: Not 45 years. In 1972 the Supreme Court for the first time declared restrictive covenants not registerable as on the records of the property.

MacNEIL: Well, I think we've seen --

Ms. SPIRO: I'd like to get back to the testing issue, yeah.

MacNEIL: Well, I would too, but we have to move on this evening. I think we've seen that this is an issue that obviously generates a great deal of heat still, and that is going to be clear in the way Congress resolves it. Mr. North, thank you very much for joining us from Chicago, and Ms. Spiro in New York. Judy?

WOODRUFF: Still ahead on the NewsHour, a look at the code of behavior drawn up 10 years ago for American businesses which deal with South Africa, and the black minister who drew them up. A newsmaker interview with the head of the Humana Heart Institute on possible second thoughts about the artificial heart. And a profile of Broadway producer Joseph Papp. Sullivan Principles: Code of Behavior

WOODRUFF: Our next focus looks at the man behind the principle that is one of the mainstays of U.S. policy toward South Africa. The man is the Reverend Leon Sullivan. The fair employment principles that bear his name are essentially a code of conduct for U.S. companies doing business in racially segregated South Africa. Up to now, acceptance of the Sullivan principles has been voluntary, but last week the Senate Foreign Relations Committee voted to make the principles mandatory. And now Reverend Sullivan says that his code of corporate responsibility may need readjustment. Tug Yourgrau of Boston's public station WGBH reports.

Rev. LEON H. SULLIVAN: I'm a black Baptist preacher, and this is the work of God. God doesn't just want you to have milk and honey in heaven, He wants you to have some ham and eggs on earth. And He doesn't just want to keep you out of hell, He wants to get some hell out of you. And there's a lot of hell in South Africa.

TUG YOURGRAU [voice-over]: This is the Reverend Leon H. Sullivan, a longtime civil rights activist, developer of black businesses and training programs, pastor of Philadelphia's giant Zion Baptist Church. He's also the man behind the Sullivan Principles, which for nearly a decade now have conferred legitimacy on U.S. corporate presence in South Africa. But today there are signs that Sullivan himself is running out of patience.

Rev. SULLIVAN: You don't have 10 years to wait for freedom in South Africa for black people. You don't have five years. You don't have four years. It must happen now. The window of freedom must be opened for black people in South Africa.

YOURGRAU [voice-over]: In 1971 Sullivan joined the board of directors of General Motors, only to find out that GM was manufacturing cars in South Africa.

Rev. SULLIVAN: And I said General Motors should leave South Africa and all American companies. I made an impassioned speech on the stockholders' floor in 1971 that General Motors should leave and all American companies should leave South Africa. I lost in my appeal, but I held that appeal until 1975.

YOURGRAU [voice-over]: In that year Sullivan traveled through South Africa and spoke with black trade union leaders.

Rev. SULLIVAN: The thing that stood out in my mind was a request by those leaders, those trade union leaders, to see if I could not get the companies of America to begin a process whereby the companies could bring about change in that country. They said it had been talked about but never really tried. So I thought about it and I wasn't having much success getting the companies out, and I again discussed it with the elders of my church and my wife, and I prayed about it, and decided I would try, realizing that it was one chance out of a hundred it would succeed, and with great ambivalence, but it was worth a try. And out of it came was is known as the Sullivan Principles.

YOURGRAU [voice-over]: This modest Philadelphia office now administers the Sullivan code. I mean, four-tenths of 1 . So they have to be a lever for change. They have to be like a crowbar. And I understand there is a movement beginning to develop in South Africa to see that the principles are applied to every foreign country -- company and multinational company in South Africa.

YOURGRAU [voice-over]: A second charge against the principles is that they have failed to deal adequately with South Africa's growing black trade union movement. Before he came to Harvard on scholarship last year, Mike Mcethe was president of the Transport and Allied Workers Union in South Africa and an executive member of the independent black trade union federation, CUSA.

MIKE MCETHE, South African trade unionist [September 1984]: There are unions, particularly CUSA unions, I'm a CUSA man myself, that completely reject being involved in the administration of the principles. After, you know, initiating a move to be involved and, you know, I think after sitting down and analyzing their whole thing, that we all have concluded that this is nothing more than an extension of the systems.

Rev. SULLIVAN: The whole concept of the principles came from union members, who requested that this kind of initiative be made. Unfortunately, I have not had a formal relationship with the labor union leaders, but when they come to America I request those who will to come and talk with me to see how I can be helpful and supportive to them.

YOURGRAU: Sullivan and his colleagues concede that there's room for improvement on all these points and for negotiation. But there is another issue cropping up that offers much less room for compromise and which may separate the Reverend from his own supporters.

Rev. SULLIVAN: I am requiring and asking that the principles be made mandatory, with sanctions, embargoes, loss-of-tax penalties, for any company in America who does not subscribe to these principles.

YOURGRAU [voice-over]: On this crucial point, Sullivan is finding little support in his own ranks. Here again is Reid Weedon testifying before the Senate Banking Committee.

Mr. WEEDON: I would hate to be involved, in fact I will not be involved, in trying to do that process if it's done as a mandatory legal structure. We already have Sullivan signatories who have dropped out of the program because they didn't like the grade that we gave them. I have been getting threats from general counsels of companies because they don't like the grades we give. And my answer today is, if you don't like it, you can drop out.

YOURGRAU [voice-over]: And here's longtime signatory Mobil Oil.

SAL G. MARZULLO, Mobil Oil: American firms through adherence to voluntary standards of social responsibility have been a leading force for evolutionary change away from apartheid. Mandatory confrontational legislation could well jeopardize that effort.

YOURGRAU: Whatever their hesitations about confrontation, the companies did agree recently, under Sullivan's prodding, to work more actively for black political and civil rights in South Africa.

Rev. SULLIVAN: The white industrial leaders of America are quite disturbed with many of the things I'm saying now, because I'm saying that the companies should challenge and lobby against every aspect of apartheid laws. And I'm saying that you should get out of the workplace now and you must challenge the political system.

YOURGRAU [voice-over]: And to underscore the urgency of his demands, the Reverend Sullivan is publicly going a step further.

Rev. SULLIVAN: If with all these efforts, including the Sullivan principles, apartheid, statutorally [sic] and actually, and in fact, does not come to an end in two years, in 24 months, the United States should declare a total economic embargo against the Republic of South Africa and all American companies should withdraw.

Mr. WEEDON: One has to define what end of apartheid means. I think that there is no one who dreams that end of apartheid means one man, one vote.

Mr. HOURIHAN: Sometimes too he takes a position and throws it out, and sometimes he's really firm on it, and other times he's trying to drive American companies. I sense that this -- he may be -- that maybe is his true target. One doesn't know. On the other hand, he may be driving American companies, trying to push Sullivan signatories close to the point of "You have got to get something done over the next two years." I really don't know where he's coming from.

Rev. SULLIVAN: I'm like a man running down a track with hurdles. He's got people on one side applauding on one side, on the other side, jeering. But I can't listen to the jeers or the applause; I got to keep my eyes on the hurdles or else I won't make it. And I'm just jumping those hurdles one point at a time.

MacNEIL: Recently the South African Business Daily reported that the first South African company was about to sign the Sullivan code. Some big South African firms have already adopted fair employment principles of their own, though their performance is not monitored. English firms doing business in South Africa and other European firms also have codes. Artificial Heart Program: Time to Pause?

WOODRUFF: We take a look now at the changing fortunes of the artificial heart program, which started with much fanfare in 1982 but has since fallen on harder times. Many experts are now beginning to ask openly whether there should be a moratorium on artificial heart implants untilsome major problems can be worked out. And the problems have been there since the start. Barney Clark, the first patient, received his mechanical heart on December 2nd, 1982, when he was just hours from death. He never recovered enough to leave the hospital and suffered numerous neurological and organ problems. He died after 112 days. William Schroeder got his artificial heart almost two years to the day after Dr. Clark. Since then he's suffered two major strokes that impaired his speech and memory and left him seriously disoriented. Although he left the hospital in April, he was forced to return after his second stroke. Murray Haydon, the third patient, had his heart implant on February 7th and has yet to leave the hospital. Last week he suffered a minor stroke that left him partially paralyzed, but by the next day his doctor said he was 95 to 98 percent recovered. Jack Burcham, at 62 the oldest recipient, was said to be the healthiest at the time of his operation on April 14th. But immediately after, he suffered massive bleeding and kidney failure, and died just 10 days later. A fth patient, a Swedish man, is said to be recovering at a Swedish hospital.

One of the doctors who has suggested that it may be time for a pause in the artificial heart program is the director of Louisville's Humana Heart Institute, where three of the operations took place. He is Dr. Allan Lansing, and he joins us tonight from Louisville.

Dr. Lansing, why a pause?

Dr. ALLAN LANSING: Well, I don't really think we're pausing. I would say that at the present time our concern is for the two patients that we have in hospital. We want to make sure that they are over the hump and improving and do not require intensive medical or nursing care.

WOODRUFF: Is that what you -- go ahead.

Dr. LANSING: As soon as they are in that shape, then we'll be ready to move on again.

WOODRUFF: So that's what you meant when you said a pause?

Dr. LANSING: Well, I think we are in a holding pattern right now because of the condition of the patients that we have. But if an emergency situation came up, we would not hesitate to go ahead with implanting another artificial heart at any time.

WOODRUFF: Do you feel you are under any pressure to establish some kind of a moratorium? I mean, after all, we have the head of the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute saying that maybe we ought to stop, figure out what's gone wrong before we do any more implants.

Dr. LANSING: No, I don't think there's any immediate pressure. I think that we have learned a great deal. First of all, while the artificial heart worked extremely well in animals, we are finding that there are problems in humans that could not be predicted from any of the animal experiments. And consequently it is absolutely necessary to go on learning about what the problems are in humans. You know, I think we got a big boost when the advisory committee of the National Heart and Lung Institute said that, yes, the government should get back into funding research in artificial hearts. And I think that's because we have seen how well transplants have done, that patients do recover with a new heart, they do get back to enjoying life, they get back to work. But there aren't enough transplants available, and consequently there is a need for a substitute for a transplant -- that is, an artificial heart. And I think we're very much encouraged by the fact that now there may be other centers involved in basic research and in clinical research in this project. It's most encouraging, and I think it's a good sign for the future.

WOODRUFF: But didn't you say that the heart that is now being -- that you've been using there at the Humana Institute, the Jarvik-7, needs to be changed.

Dr. LANSING: Oh, yes. I think we are making modifications working with Dr. Jarvik, and that is to change the drive system so it'll be more gentle on the blood and the clotting elements, and secondly to develop a smaller artificial heart. For instance, Mr. Haydon's problems arose because it was difficult to put the heart into his chest cavitity, and smaller models should be available within the next couple of months. So those things -- changing the valves so that they are maybe less damaging to the blood cells -- these are things that we did not see in the animals; we had to try in humans to find out these problems, and consequently, now that we've identified them, we are immediately taking steps to adjust the apparatus so that it is likely to be much more successful in future patients.

WOODRUFF: But how do you respond to suggestions such as the one from the National Institute of Health, saying that your program has been heading in the wrong direction, that really what you need to be doing is coming up with an implantable heart -- with a heart that is completely implantable, and not one that is dependent on an outside power source?

Dr. LANSING: Well, I don't think that we ever started out with the idea that there would be an outside power source. A great deal of research needs to be done in the methods of producing an internal power source, and all of us want that. A temporary intermediate phase is to use an external source of power which is very reliable and which can be applied now, and with it we can find out if the artificial heart itself actually functions as a satisfactory pump. Once we find that, once we have a good mechanical heart, we will then at the same time be working on an implantable power source. Absolutely, we need one that is under the skin so there's no tether, so that the patient can forget about his heart. There has never been any question that that's the way we were heading. We just can't do it all at one time. And the fact that we'll now have other centers involved in this, some of them concentrating only on the development of a power source, is most encouraging. That's exactly what we'd like to see.

WOODRUFF: Can you give us an update on, first of all, the condition of Murray Haydon, who had the mild stroke, or minor stroke, rather, last week?

Dr. LANSING: I would say Murray -- I saw him this afternoon -- looks the best that I have ever seen him. His color's improved, his face looks much better, he was out of bed. He's been going back down to the physiotherapy department to exercise, and his lung function has been improving steadily. He has not been on the respirator for some time.

WOODRUFF: Why such a fast recovery for him from the stroke?

Dr. LANSING: I think he had a very small blood clot, may well have come off the carotid artery in the neck rather than in the heart, and this small clot blocked only a minor branch in the brain. We identified this, and I think it was rapidly absorbed before any brain damage occurred. So he made a good recovery, and in fact, I would say his spirits and his motivation are better now than they were before this stroke. Sort of a reverse effect from the usual depression that occurs as a result of a stroke. In this case it seemed to give him a boost.

WOODRUFF: What about William Schroeder?

Dr. LANSING: William Schroeder has not improved a great deal in the past week or so. He is saying more words. He is moving the right side better, particularly his arm, and he is showing much more interest in the environment. But he is still very much incapacitated, and we'll have a long, slow way to go. We hope that we'll be able to get him out of the hospital and over to his apartment even before he is completely recovered and to continue his convalescence and physiotherapy there.

WOODRUFF: Mr. Schroeder's wife was quoted recently as saying that she thought if her husband had known the sort of hardships that all this was going to create, that he might not have gone ahead and gone through with it. How do you respond to that?

Dr. LANSING: I would have to say that our hearts go out primarily to the families of the patients involved in these experiments. The patients themselves have a very short life expectancy and have no hope other than with the mechanical heart. They know what they're going to get into. However, it's the families that bear the tremendous strain afterwards of the ups and downs, the encouragements, the discouragements, the heartbreaks, and then the happiness when people are doing well. I think they suffer far more than the patients, and it is completely understandable that these families would every once in a while become very upset, angry even, frustrated by this continual strain on them. So their response is perfectly normal. I would have the same response. Now, as far as the patients are concerned, I think that they understand this completely well as they go into it, and certainly with all the press attention with these patients, any future patients are going to know exactly what might happen to them. There'll be no doubt that they'll know about neurological problems.

WOODRUFF: Can you give us any idea of when your next implant may be?

Dr. LANSING: No. We have not set a date, we have not picked a candidate. We have several possibilities available, but we are not going to be moving ahead, unless it's a dire emergency, until either one or both of the patients are much improved from where they are now and hopefully over at the apartment for convalescents.

WOODRUFF: Dr. Allan Lansing, we thank you for being with us.

Dr. LANSING: Thank you. It was my pleasure. Joseph Papp, Impresario

MacNEIL: We close tonight with a profile. For people interested in live theater here in New York or across the nation, there's a chronic complaint: the Broadway theater grows more and more commercial and fewer serious plays get a chance. But there's one producer who's made a career of fighting that trend. He is Joseph Papp, who founded and runs New York's Public Theater. Correspondent June Massell has a profile of Papp as he prepares to celebrate another achievement: next week marks the 30th anniversary of Papp's free Shakespeare Festival in Central Park.

JESSICA TANDY: I think, thank God for Joe Papp, because he has the sort of courage that is very rare.

COLLEEN DEWHURST: He had a vision. He was also a crusader.

KATE NELLIGAN: Without him the New York theater would be absolutely impoverished.

JUNE MASSELL [voice-over]: A Chorus Line is Joe Papp's most well-known success. Now in its 10th year, it's become the longest running show in Broadway's history. It's won both a Tony Award for the best musical and a Pulitzer Prize for drama. While Papp has had 14 plays on Broadway, Broadway has never been where Joe Papp has poured his greatest energy. Papp is more associated with off Broadway than on Broadway and with serious drama more than musicals.

JOSEPH PAPP: I make my own decisions. I'm in the most envious position. I could do any play I want to do. I could do almost anything I want to do in the theater.

MASSELL [voice-over]: And Papp has. From Gilbert and Sullivan's Pirates of Penzance to serious dramas about Vietnam. In fact, he launched his career by producing perhaps the most serious of all playwrights, William Shakespeare, and in a setting as far from Broadway as one could imagine -- a public park. In the late '50s Papp decided to put on free Shakespeare in New York's Central Park. He didn't have a permit but he did have a truck.

[on camera] And one night he drove into the park and started to set up a theater. When city officials told him he would have to charge admission if he wanted to put on plays, Papp refused because that wouldn't have been free Shakespeare. Finally the matter went to court. It was Joe Papp versus the city of New York, and Joe Papp won.

Mr. PAPP: Anytime you follow something with great fervor and you go after it relentlessly and you let nothing stop you, except death, then either you're killed, in a way, or pushed aside, or you break through.

MASSELL [voice-over]: Papp broke through. With the rapid success of Shakespeare in the Park and plays like The Taming of the Shrew with Meryl Streep and Raul Julia, Papp soon became known as a formidable producer and a formidable fighter, someone who took on tough battles and tough opponents and prevailed.

[interviewing] You know, I read a story about you, and you were out here one night for a production and it looked like it was going to rain, and the big question was, who would win: Joe Papp or the gods?

Mr. PAPP: Well, you know, it's a funny thing how myths start to spring up around you. People would run back and say -- we have to be very careful when it's raining when we're doing fights on the stage, because our fights are very realistic, usually with swords or with various kinds of sticks which they use. So I watch it very carefully. And so this chap comes running back and says, "Mr. Papp, it's raining." I says, "Listen, I'll decide when it's raining."

A lot of people said when I started that I was a fanatic, and a lot of it was out of fear. I mean, most courage comes out of fear, I'll tell you that. You're fighting to stay alive.

MASSELL [voice-over]: Joe Papp has been fighting to stay alive since childhood. Growing up poor in an orthodox Jewish family in Brooklyn taught him survival and in part explains why free Shakespeare in the Park was so important to him.

Mr. PAPP: I guess it was connected with my childhood. We used to go to the park. It was the one place poor people had; it was Prospect Park at the time because we lived in Brooklyn. Also I love Shakespeare so much that I felt nothing's too good for the poor people.

MASSELL [voice-over]: Papp has a deep sense of his own history and an appreciation that where he came from made him what he is today. Now 64, he conducts the traditional Passover seder as his father did one generation before him. But how does a young boy growing up in a home where only Yiddish is spoken develop a love for Shakespeare?

Mr. PAPP: English became surprisingly interesting because it was a different language. And it's amazing how foreign people begin to attune their ear and really listen to the language, much more so than people that are raised within the language. But I guess it has to do with the sound because the key to Shakespeare is the ear, the listening. When you hear it, then you understand it.

MASSELL [voice-over]: While the Papp family is comfortable today, Papp's father was unemployed for years, and as a teenager Joe hadto help put food on the table. He had to pluck chickens, drive a pushcart and shine shoes.

Mr. PAPP: Well, I wasn't so good at it, so I had this brush; she wore these high-heel shoes, and I put this black polish all over her stockings -- she had a silk stocking on, and she was furious, she just kicked me out and didn't pay me anything. And I'm walking down the street, it's drizzling, and I'm feeling like so terrible, I was sort of crying a little bit. I felt terrible this first venture. And some guy asked me, he says, "Come here, kid, give me a shine." It was a nickel a shine. So I got in the store and I shined his shoes, and he gave me a quarter. So I felt terrific.

MASSELL [voice-over]: The theme of unemployment left its scars. It's something Papp has never forgotten. It's what attracted him to a story about unemployed dancers auditioning for a job that eventually became the smash hit A Chorus Line. Papp remembers a poignant moment from the show, an interaction between the director and a dancer.

Mr. PAPP: He starts to ask a personal question. She says, "Do I have to answer that?" He says, "You want this job, don't you?" There's a pause. She says, "Sure, I do." And she steps back. It breaks my heart, that line. She wanted that job. And even the song, "I really need this job." I understand that totally.

[scene from "A Chorus Line"]

Mr. PAPP: That used to move me very much. That's all childhood.

MASSELL [voice-over]: In 1967 Papp created the Public Theater in downtown Manhattan. He convinced New York City politicians to lease him the building for a dollar a year, and he convinced the public that his theater was worth coming to.

THEATERGOER: It's not showing anywhere in New York but here, and I think it's a little gem in the big city of New York.

MASSELL [voice-over]: Papp is known for putting on courageous plays, plays with a political message that often are not commercial enough for first runs on Broadway.

BRAD DAVIS [scene from "The Normal Heart"]: Forty dead. That's too many for one person to know. Bruce is really getting paranoid. His lover, Albert, isn't feeling well now and Bruce is afraid he's giving it to everybody.

MASSELL [voice-over]: Most recently he opened a play about a theme most producers and theatergoers would prefer to ignore: the AIDS epidemic.

Mr. DAVIS [from "The Normal Heart"]: It is no secret that I consider the mayor to be, along with The Times, the biggest enemy gay men and women must contend with in New York. Until the day I die I will never forgive this newspaper and this mayor for ignoring this epidemic which is killing so many of my friends.

LARRY KRAMER, playwright: It's very courageous for any producer to take on those two titans. I think it's very courageous of Joe Papp.

MASSELL [voice-over]: Larry Kramer wrote The Normal Heart.

Mr. KRAMER: I mean, the mayor is his landlord; The New York Times reviews all the plays that he puts on in this theater. I am deeply indebted to him for being so courageous. The play was turned down by every major agent in New York and by most of the theaters, and I don't think that it could have got on anywhere else.

MASSELL [voice-over]: Over the years, Papp has nurtured a lot of talent like Larry Kramer. He's discovered more playwrights than anyone else in the business, and he's helped launch acting careers of stars like Colleen Dewhurst, George C. Scott and Meryl Streep. Papp is passionate about the theater, often spending 12-hour days and weekends at work. It's a passion that has sometimes gotten him into trouble. Occasionally playwrights have found him intrusive, difficult to work with, and good relationships have blown up. Actor-playwright Sam Shepard has not talked to Papp for five years because of a bitter quarrel over the casting of one of Shepard's plays. But Wilford Leach, Papp's resident director and sometime set designer, finds Papp's reputation as ill tempered mystifying.

WILFORD LEACH, director: He is reported to interfere a great deal, to be very bossy, to be -- to take plays away from the playwright, that sort of thing. It's never happened in my experience. He gets very emotional about things. I mean, he makes -- his commitment is wholehearted and profound. And therefore he's interested in everything's that's going on and has a lot to say about everything that's going on, but he's never at any time interfered with anything that I've done.

MASSELL [voice-over]: Perhaps the person who has worked with him the longest, 20 years, is his wife and head of play development, Gail Merrifield.

GAIL MERRIFIELD: I submit a formal letter of resignation every year.

Mr. PAPP: I get one every year.

Ms. MERRIFIELD: He tears it up. And I'm really very serious when I do it, and he's very serious when he tears it up.

MASSELL [voice-over]: No one disagrees that Joe Papp can be serious. On Broadway he's remembered as the man who fought hard but unsuccessfully to try to save two Broadway theaters from the wrecking ball of real estate developers three years ago.

Mr. PAPP: The people are betrayed here in the city. I think betrayed by Koch, betrayed by the whole goddamn government of the city. None of these people have done a thing to stop this.

MASSELL [voice-over]: The demolition was symbolic for Papp of a Broadway in crisis, of a diminished Broadway populated mostly by musicals and frivolity and rarely by provocative works.

Mr. PAPP: There are very few serious plays on Broadway. Here and there one manages to get through for some reason or other. I feel it's important that we upgrade Broadway by bringing works of a higher order.

MASSELL [voice-over]: But serious drama requires a serious audience, something Papp believes Broadway has lost. So, true to his style, he's trying to create one among the young at heart. The Public Theater runs a special program for schoolchildren designed to interest them in the theater early.

Mr. PAPP: We don't have an audience for the future. This is a great audience for the future. You've got to give them a chance.

MASSELL [voice-over]: But don't think for one minute that it's only the kids who love to perform. Papp is a showman from way back.

[Joe Papp singing]

MASSELL [voice-over]: This is a rehearsal for a benefit Papp recently entertained at. His staff rolled a piano into his office and Joe Papp presented Joe Papp. For the last 10 years Papp has kept his operation alive with the money that A Chorus Line made. But now those profits are diminishing and he's back on the phone fund raising and wheeling and dealing. The latest deal is with the city of New York for a new lease on his theater. This time Papp is asking for a guarantee of 99 years at, you guessed it, a dollar a year. And not many people doubt Joe Papp will pull it off.

MacNEIL: The correspondent for that profile was June Massell. Judy?

WOODRUFF: Turning finally to a last look at the day's top stories. Trans World Airlines says it will merge with Texas Air, the company that owns Continental and New York airlines. And labor unrest goes on at United Airlines. Pilots continued their walkout today despite a tentative agreement reached yesterday. They are backing striking flight attendants. The Reagan administration says that it will give Jordan $250 million in aid. And retail sales fell last month, diminishing hopes that consumer spending would stimulate the economy.

Good night, Robin.

MacNEIL: Good night, Judy. That's our NewsHour tonight. We will be back tomorrow night. I'm Robert MacNeil. Thank you and good night.