The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

RAY SUAREZ: Good evening. I'm Ray Suarez. Jim Lehrer is away. On the NewsHour tonight: A summary of the news; John Burns of the "New York Times" on life inside Iraq; Haitian refugees throw a spotlight on immigration law; Arizona's new look at financing political campaigns; and the governor's races to watch next Tuesday.

NEWS SUMMARY

RAY SUAREZ: The UN Security Council may be moving closer to a compromise resolution on Iraq. "The New York Times" and other news organizations reported today the U.S. and France had narrowed their differences. Under the compromise, the U.S. would consult the UN before taking military action, as France wants. But the U.S. would still have the freedom to act even without UN approval. This evening, Secretary of State Powell underscored that point.

COLIN POWELL: At no time will the United States foreclose its ability to act in its interest in accordance with its constitutional obligations to protect the nation and to protect the people. And I believe that with a little more hard work on the part of all concerned, we can find a way to accommodate the interest of our friends without in any way as I have said beforehand handcuffing the United States.

RAY SUAREZ: At the White House today, President Bush pressed for rigorous weapons inspections in Iraq. He met with chief UN Inspector Hans Blix. A spokesman said Mr. Bush stressed the importance of disarming Saddam Hussein. We'll have more on Iraq in a moment. The coalition government of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon collapsed today. Members of the center-left Labor Party resigned over a budget dispute. They wanted a cut in funding for Jewish settlements, but Sharon refused. The resignations take effect in 48 hours. If they stand, Sharon will have only a narrow coalition in parliament and might have to call early elections. More than 200 Haitian refugees were being detained in South Florida today. On Tuesday, they jumped from a 50-foot wooden boat that ran aground off Miami after eight days at sea. Some reached a highway and tried to flag down cars. The Border Patrol rounded them up. Today Democratic Congresswoman Carrie Meek, and others, demanded the Haitians be treated the same as Cubans. Unlike other groups, Cubans are allowed to remain in the U.S. if they make it to shore. In Washington, a White House spokesman said there are no plans to change the policy.

ARI FLEISCHER: The President's job is to enforce the laws of the land and the laws will be enforced. And in this case what's happening now is that these ...the Haitians are being treated fairly. They're being treated appropriately; they're being treated humanely and the Immigration and Naturalization Service will apply the law and make the proper judgments.

RAYSUAREZ: Later in the day, six people were charged with trying to smuggle the Haitians into the U.S. We'll have more on this story later in the program tonight. Two more people died overnight in the wake of the Moscow hostage siege. That makes 119 who died after Russian troops seized a theater held by Chechen rebels early Saturday. All but two died from a knockout gas the soldiers used. Today, the Russian health minister said the gas was fentanyl. It's a fast-acting narcotic based on opium, and used as an anesthetic. The health minister said the drug should not have caused death. He suggested captivity had weakened the hostages. Former Vice President Walter Mondale will run for the U.S. Senate in Minnesota. He'd take the ballot spot of Democratic Senator Paul Wellstone, who died in a plane crash last week. Mondale's announcement came in a letter to the state's Democratic Farmer Labor Party. The party chairman quoted from it today.

MIKE ERLANDSON, Chairman, Minnesota Democratic Farmer Labor Party: The first line of the letter really sums it up. It says I'm writing to inform you if nominated I'll accept the nomination for the United States Senate tonight. It is with heartfelt but great hope for the future I will pick up the campaign where Paul Wellstone left off. Paul cannot be replaced. No one can. But his passion for Minnesotans and their need can inspire us to continue the work he began.

RAY SUAREZ: Party officials were expected to ratify Mondale as the Senate candidate this evening. Last night, he was one of more than 15,000 people who attended a service for Wellstone, in Minneapolis. It ran for three and a half hours, and was part memorial service and part political rally. Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura, an independent, walked out of the service, complaining it was too partisan. On Wall Street today, the Dow Jones Industrial Average gained 58 points, closing at 8427. The NASDAQ was up 26 points, 2%, at 1326. That's it for the News Summary tonight. Now it's on to an inside Iraq report, Haitian refugees and immigration law, clean elections in Arizona, and the gubernatorial sweepstakes.

FOCUS INSIDE IRAQ

RAY SUAREZ: Now, a report from inside Iraq. It comes amid two days of intense diplomatic activity. The chief United Nations arms inspector, Hans Blix, met with President Bush. The President pressed again for tough inspections in Iraq, and for ridding the country of weapons of mass destruction. And the United States continued negotiations with other Security Council members on the wording of a new UN resolution against Baghdad. But the U.S. warned again it would act alone in Iraq if the UN does not. Terence Smith takes the story from there.

TERENCE SMITH: Joining me now is John Burns, a foreign correspondent for the "New York Times." He returned to London today after nearly three weeks in Iraq, where he witnessed, among other things, the startling release of thousands of political prisoners from Iraqi jails.

John Burns, welcome. As you heard earlier, the Bush administration continues to press for a new UN resolution authorizing inspectors in Iraq. If that is passed, as now seems the case, do you think Saddam Hussein's government will accept the inspectors?

JOHN BURNS: I do. I do. I think everything I saw in the last three weeks suggest that they're in a sort of survival mode. That they're battening down the hatches, the purpose being to sustain survival of the regime. Whatever is necessary to do that, they will do. I don't think there is... for all of the, you might say, potentially the opposite. I don't think that Saddam Hussein's regime believes in truth that I could survive a war with the United States and in consequence of which they will, I believe, make whatever concessions are necessary to survive, and first and foremost amongst those will be to accept the weapons inspectors under whatever mandate United Nations chooses to pass.

TERENCE SMITH: Even to the point of giving them free and unfettered access to the country and the places they want to go to?

JOHN BURNS: I believe so. I had a number of conversations with senior people in the government of Iraq, Tariq Aziz principally amongst them, the deputy prime minister, and it was quite notable that for all of his objections to the particulars of the proposal the United States has put before the Security Council, the phrase that continued to come up throughout our conversation over two hours was "Iraq is prepared to admit the weapons inspectors." When I specifically said, "Are you prepared to accept this condition or that condition," there was only one condition that he specifically objected to and that was the United States stipulation that weapons scientists be uplifted out of Iraq as desired, as required, with their families for questioning outside Iraq. He said-- this might be some sort of indication of where an Iraqi objection maybe raised once the weapons inspectors are there-- that they wouldn't... they couldn't imagine that anybody would insist on weapons inspectors leaving the country against their will. But I think there was no mention of objection to the other specific requirements of the United States. For example, on the palaces, they say welcome to inspect the palaces. They inspected them before, and they won't find anything there. I think you mind whatever mandate is passed, they will accept.

TERENCE SMITH: And the mood among the Iraqi people that you were able to talk with, are they apprehensive?

JOHN BURNS: Yeah. Reading the mood of the Iraqi people has always been a rather obscure science, because as you know if you point television camera or a notebook at an Iraqi in the presence of the ubiquitous minders of the information ministry, you'll get a very predictable answer. They love Saddam Hussein, they oppose the United States, they believe that the weapons inspection issue is simply a pretext for toppling the regime, they're 100% for Saddam Hussein, and so forth. But some remarkable things are happening there. I believe that the pressures applied by the Bush administration have entirely changed the dynamics of power within Iraq already. The people are beginning to speak out in ways that they didn't. It's all paradoxical of course, because within the last two weeks, Saddam Hussein had himself reelected ostensibly by 100% of 11.4 million votes cast by the Iraqis in 100% turnout in the Presidential referendum. Of course, nobody in the outside world is likely to give much credence to that. But just as that result was announced, we as foreign correspondents in Baghdad were beginning to notice that to a much greater degree than ever before individual Iraqis, at considerable risk to themselves, were prepared to approach us at moments of distraction for our minders to give their real opinions, and my sense is that there is of course a core around the regime who will defend it at any cost. Typically, they're called the Tikritees-- the city of Tikrit from which Saddam Hussein himself comes, northwest of Baghdad-- they will stick with him. Many of the top people will in the regime, the Republican Guard, probably will. There will be a fight in the United States invades Iraq, but I think as to the opinion of the people of Iraq, I think you can assume that there are very large number of people in Iraq who are unhappy in some considerable degree with the way the country has been governed in the last 23 years by Saddam Hussein, and that their opinions will be quite other than those of the government.

TERENCE SMITH: In the midst of your visit there was this extraordinary amnesty announced. I wonder what was behind that and what it led to in your view.

JOHN BURNS: Well, I remember a game that we used to play when I was a youngster in school. Three men and a balloon, and who gets thrown out first. It seems to me the government of Iraq considers itself, whatever it may say in the face of American military power, to be in a balloon that is descending rather rapidly and are prepared to abandon whatever can be abandoned. I think the prison amnesty-- which was a quite remarkable thing, I don't know of any precedent for this in any totalitarian states certainly that I've ever been to. Saddam Hussein has had an enormous number of people in his prisons, certainly tens of thousands by every human rights account. In the particular prison that we were in the day the amnesty was announced, Abu Ghraib, which is the most notorious of Iraq's prisons about 20 miles west of Baghdad, there were about 20,000 prisoners. At noon on a Sunday, we were summoned at no notice to the information ministry and driven 120 miles an hour along the motorway west to the prison, where they announced that the President to thank the people of Iraq for reelecting him in the referendum was going to amnesty almost the entire prison population -- everything from petty thieves to motorists to political prisoners. Before this could be put into effect at Abu Ghraib, a crowd, an enormous crowd had gathered of people who knew their relatives to be in the prison and others who had long lost track of relatives who had been arrested over the years, detained and simply disappeared, who they hoped they may discover within the vast prison compound-- a mile square on the desert floor west of Baghdad-- that they might find their long-lost brothers, husbands, and sons.

TERENCE SMITH: In fact, some of the pictures that your photographer Tyler Hicks took show these crowds pressing in to the prison.

JOHN BURNS: Well, the crowds... I mean, if you look for analogies, I suppose in the long sweep of history the storming of the Bastille would not be a bad one.

TERENCE SMITH: Right.

JOHN BURNS: I don't think Louis invited the crowd to come to the Bastille in the way that Saddam Hussein did, but what happened was that what had been arranged as a sort of propaganda exercise, in my view, which is to say "okay, Mr. Bush you said in your speech..." in Cincinnati I believe about three weeks ago that Saddam Hussein uses murder as a tool of terror. The President has said repeatedly in addition to the other reasons for instituting regime change in Baghdad, the weapons of mass destruction, he has talked about terror inflicted on his own people. So Saddam Hussein's response to this is say, "okay, you call me a terrorizing murdering tyrant. I'll prove you otherwise, I'll open up my prisons." It was a propaganda gesture, but it got out of hand. The crowd that gathered outside the gates built up to several thousands probably by... within two hours 10,000 or 15,000. By midafternoon, it was probably 50,000 or more. And they broke down the prison gates before the actual release had begun. They then stormed the cell blocks within the prison, and the most remarkable scenes developed. In my viewwhat happened that day, we're talking about Sunday two weeks ago, was that the people of Iraq who have been subjected to considerable oppression became sovereign at the moment that those gates and perceived themselves to be. They stormed the prison blocks and the photographs that you'll be seeing occurred at the anonymously-named division six of the prison, not oddly the place that we knew to have been the principal holding cell for the political prisoners, which is called the special judgment division. We're not sure to this day why the principal mob scene developed at division six. It's at the southern end of the prison about a mile from the prison gates, and as dusk fell, a situation developed in which the prisoners inside the prison began to panic attempting to get out. They reached a cinderblock wall with thousands of family -- relatives outside. The relatives picked up large pieces of steel tubing from a construction site where they were about to build even more cell blocks, 15 or 20 huge cell blocks-- cell block is probably the wrong term, we're talking about prisons within a prison-- began to break the cinder block wall down. At that point, an extremely frantic situation developed where you had, on the one hand, prisoners climbing out through part of broken wall and being assisted by some of the guards, and at another breach in the prison wall other guards with other links of steel tubing trying to beat prisoners back -- a complete panic. In the panic, quite a number of people were trampled to death. Our judgment was that they were probably suffocated and trampled. There was no evidence that we could be sure of, although there was some evidence of the guards beating some of the people attempting to breach their way through this wall, there's no clear evidence any of them had been beaten to death. The interesting question that remained from all of this-- and Tyler's picture which I think are quite extraordinary, and there's one in particular which shows the terrors in eyes of the prisoners yet within the cell block as they attempted to get out-- why were they so frightened? There were accounts... and of course none of this is verifiable. You have to imagine the scene was of absolute turmoil. 50,000 to 100,000 people in a mob storming every which way within the prison cell; every prisoner who got through the wall and out of other cell blocks racing for the gates, mostly abandoning all their possessions; some with bedding on their backs. Hundreds, possibly thousands, of these relatives in a state of the absolute panic because they couldn't find the people they had come to look for, and didn't find them for reasons that we can easily assume. And there were stories that even as these prisoners began to breach the wall, killing of some kind or other was going on inside division six. We were not ever able to determine what had happened, whether this was just panic, hysteria. But the tragedy was, of course, and the photographs showed this, among the people who died, the prisoners who died, many of them had waited twenty or thirty years to get out of those cell blocks, and they reached literally within feet of freedom. If they got through the wall, they had a mile to run across the prison compound to freedom. And they died within feet of reaching freedom.

TERENCE SMITH: Altogether just an extraordinary circumstance. Thank you for describing it, John Burns. Thank you very much.

JOHN BURNS: It's my pleasure.

FOCUS UNWELCOME IMMIGRANTS

RAY SUAREZ: Yesterday's attempt by a group of Haitian refugees to enter the United States has once again stirred controversy over American immigration policy. Kwame Holman begins our report.

KWAME HOLMAN: Every year, thousands of Haitians brave at least 700 miles of open ocean, often in unseaworthy boats, attempting to reach Florida. Yesterday, about 200 Haitians swam the final 500 yards to shore after their dilapidated vessel ran aground near Miami. About 20 Haitians, including a pregnant woman, were plucked from the water by the U.S. Border Patrol. One immigrant made clear why he endured the eight-day odyssey.

IMMIGRANT (Translated): We come to this country because there is too much property in think country. There is nothing to eat.

KWAME HOLMAN: Haiti, a country of eight million, is the hemisphere's poorest. Three out of four people live in abject poverty. Yesterday's boat trip ended near Virginia Key, just south of Miami. After the Haitians came ashore, a few got into the cars of motorists, but local police rounded up most of the Haitians, who then were held at Miami's Krome Detention Center. That reignited an old debate over differing treatment for immigrants from Haiti versus those from Cuba. Under U.S. policy, most illegal immigrants are detained, but a small number can avoid detention as they seek asylum based on the judgment of immigration officials. For the most part, immigrants from Cuba are not held in custody, and qualify for special provisions in immigration law. And most Cuban immigrants eventually receive asylum in the U.S.; most Haitians don't. Last night, hundreds protested against that policy at an immigration office in Miami, charging a double standard for Haitians.

WOMAN: The people are hungry. They are dying. The political situation is unstable.

MAN: In 1992, a Haitian boat came in and rescued some Cubans who were drowning. INS came in and took the Cubans and said, "thank you for the Cubans," and sent the Haitians back to Haiti.

KWAME HOLMAN: Today, Florida Governor Jeb Bush faced residents of Miami's "little Haiti" section, who demanded he get President Bush to alter the Haitian immigrant policy.

GOV. JEB BUSH, Florida: My position is, as I stated, if people have a well-founded fear of persecution, they should be allowed into the community and they should be able to pursue those remedies through administrative courts.

WOMAN: Tell your brother they should be released right now.

GOV. JEB BUSH: Okay. Thank you.

SPOKESPERSON: Thank you, Governor.

SPOKESPERSON: Thank you for being here. Nice seeing you.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Why you treating us like that, Governor. Why?

GOV. JEB BUSH: Haitians should be treated in the same fashion that Jamaicans, people from the Bahamas, people from any country in the world, Colombians. There should be equal treatment, and that's my position.

WOMAN: We're asking you to make a phone call for us and...

GOV. JEB BUSH: Okay. I got it.

KWAME HOLMAN: At the White House, Spokesman Ari Fleischer was asked about the Haitian immigrant policy.

REPORTER: This Haitian situation comes at a time when it is right for a lot of people to try and make political points out of it. Can the President and those closest to him maintain a hands-off policy especially when there may be gray areas for asylum?

ARI FLEISCHER: If the question is because it's six days before an election should a president start tint fear with the actual workings of the Immigration and Naturalization Service. The answer is no, whether it's one day, six days, or 364 days before an election. The laws of our land are the laws of the land and they should be enforced by the proper authorities.

KWAME HOLMAN: Fleischer said he's unaware of any plans to review the policy regarding Haitian immigrants.

RAY SUAREZ: And Gwen Ifill has more.

GWEN IFILL: U.S. immigration policy has special rules when it comes to Haiti. Mexicans, Cubans, and others, are all treated differently. This latest turn of events once again raises the question why. Here to explore that are: Dina Paul Parks, executive director of the National Coalition for Haitian Rights, an advocacy group; and Jan Ting, a law professor at Temple University. He was the assistant commissioner for refugees, asylum and parole at the INS during the first Bush Administration.

Dina Paul Parks, how unusual, we know we saw the pictures and they caught our eye of all of the people on the he boat jumping over board trying to reach shower but how unusual is the episode we saw yesterday?

DINA PAUL PARKS: It's fairly unusual, although also routine in the sense that the numbers that are pretty spectacular they were hundreds usually happens maybe once a year, maybe once every couple of years or year and a half. It is very routine however. The Coast Guard interdicts those on the seas daily and they have numbers from month to month that vary how often they run into boats. And then you'll see a little bit more frequently, perhaps, a handful who make it to the shores, maybe 5, maybe 15 or so. But to have a boat with so many in the range of 200 is not that common.

GWEN IFILL: Which it's 200 or a handful what usually happens to Haitians when they reach the shores by these means?

DINA PAUL PARKS: Usually the process tries to repatriate Haitians pretty expeditious live. And it is only if Haitians volunteer they want to apply for asylum that typically at least until December of last year the process had been they would go through a credible fear threshold interview, which should they pass at that point within a few days or so they would have been released or I guess the INS term is paroled into the community so see if they could find a lawyer, have time to prepare their cases, et cetera.

GWEN IFILL: Let me interrupt to explain something; the credible fear threshold is a fear that something would happen to you when you return?

DINA PAUL PARKS: Yes. The credible fear threshold is the first step basically in the asylum process. It is an initial interview that's done by an asylum claims officer of the INS to basically have someone tell them why if they're returned to their country they would be fearing for their lives in terms of political reasons, affiliation, et cetera. Generally if you're lucky enough to pass that, it generally means that there is a very good chance at the end of the full process that you would be granted asylum.

GWEN IFILL: Jan Ting, how is this different and why is it different the way other potential refugees are treated?

JAN TING: Well, I think the Haitians are being treated differently since last December because the Bush administration has intelligence which suggests that there is a potential for a mass migration because of situations... conditions in Haiti and it's not in the best interest of the individuals that they make this hundreds of mile journey in these leaky boats. It's not in the interest of the United States to have hundreds or thousand of individuals land on our shores burdening our Immigration and Naturalization Service and all of the other law enforcement agencies and therefore, the administration is embarked on a process trying to figure out what can deter this mass migration to our shores. And one thing that we can do besides interdiction on thehigh seas it to make it more difficult for those who do arrive in the United States; and one thing that can be done is to deny parole for these individuals so that the word goes out there is not a possibility of parole. There is not a possibility that you're going to be let out pending your asylum claim. And it's hoped that this will have a deterrent effect and encourage people not to get into these small boats and risk their lives on this journey to the United States.

GWEN IFILL: When you say that the U.S. Government has credible intelligence that there are conditions in Haiti that would lead to a mass exodus, what kind of conditions? Are we talking about political conditions, economic conditions?

JAN TING: Well, all of the above. It almost doesn't matter. I mean the reality is conditions in Haiti potentially will drive significant numbers of individuals out into the high seas looking for a way to get to the United States. The laws of the United States do not permit their entry into the United States; since 9/11 our law enforcement agencies have been on high alert for national security reasons. This is not the time to have their limited resources diverted to the processing of thousands of new migrants.

GWEN IFILL: Ms. Parks, do you see evidence of this threat of mass exodus?

DINA PAUL PARKS: Absolutely not. We have been monitoring the situation in Haiti NCHR is primarily a human rights and immigration policy organization; we have an office in Haiti that was founded in 1992 to do human rights and rule of law work. From our own analysis and the contacts that we have in Haiti, I was in Haiti myself a little over a week ago there is absolutely no evidence that there is a mass exodus imminent and if you look at the times, if I may just add, if you look at the times where there have been waves upon waves thousands and tens of thousands of folks fleeing the conditions that warranted those waves are not present in Haiti at the present time, the current political situation notwithstanding. So we don't believe that is a valid motivation and frankly....

GWEN IFILL: Let me jump in fire moment; why are people coming here then if that is not... why did what happened yesterday happen?

DINA PAUL PARKS: Well, I think that every so off you're going to have folks who are in a situation that perhaps... like I said we haven't spoken with these folks and we don't know that they're applying for asylum; we have not had access to them yet. The INS is still processing them. But should they apply for asylum there are folks and there have been folks throughout the years who are fleeing political prosecution, whose homes and houses and places of worship have been burned down from a variety of political factions and groupings. I think the difference that certainly would not give way to tens upon thousands taking to the seas, which my understanding is what the Bush administration fears, is that you do not have a centrally organized, highly organized state repression going on. And that is vastly different. In terms of the poverty, which I think is a very fair issue to bring up, because people always look to a Haitian asylum seeker as economic refugees, but, to be honest, I mean, Haiti has been the poorest country in the western hemisphere for as long as most of us can remember but the waves of refugees fleeing to this country come at very particular points. So the economic reasons are clearly not sufficient to drive folks into the sea. And in terms of what's in their best interest savings their lives is in their best interest and if they believe their life is at risk in their homes or in their towns, the fear of being "detained" here in a jail is not going to keep them.

GWEN IFILL: Let me give Mr. Ting a chance to respond. Is this policy, the policy that the administration is pursuing now, is it working?

JAN TING: Well, it's hard to tell. I mean, Dina says that nothing is unusual going on in Haiti but at the same time she acknowledges that this is arrival of 200 Haitians on one boat at one time is highly unusual. And I think the evidence is kind of supporting the government's case, that things are happening in Haiti and that unusual things are happening and a loft people are leaving Haiti.

GWEN IFILL: Why did the law change last December, Mr. Ting? Why is it... to bring people up to date that the Clinton administration came up with the wet foot/dry foot policy for the Cubans, which says if you're on a boat, you went back to the Cuba, but if you were on land, you stayed here in the United States. Why wouldn't that kind of policy work for Haiti and why was the immigration policy or the refugee policy, in fact, tightened for Haiti last December?

JAN TING: Well, the Cubans have always been a special case and I think there is two reasons for that. First of all our policy towards Cuba is a vestige of the Cold War -- that originally we embarked on a policy of kind of trying to poke Castro in the eye at every opportunity and one way we could do that is to welcome all the refugees from Communist Cuba. And so that's a policy that started in the 1960s to grant parole initially and then thanks to the Cuban Adjustment Act of 1966 they can adjust status to legal permanent residents after one year. And that policy has kind of been maintained up to the present day in part for I think for political reasons; that Florida is the key swing state as everyone knows and the Cuban American vote in Florida is the swing vote in a swing state. And so that helps maintain this policy of special treatment and I don't think anyone can deny that it's special treatment for Cubans over everybody else. The normative policy is for the government to decide based on its detention facilities and the numbers it has to deal with either to detain the individual until the hearing before the immigration judge for release them on bond or on parole as it seems appropriate. The Haitians are in a kind of a third category now in that the policy of the government is not to grant them bond or parole pending their hearing before an immigration judge. They will get to the judge.

GWEN IFILL: But they could be held in this detention indefinitely, is that correct?

JAN TING: No, they will not be held indefinitely; they will be held until their case is resolved. Either they will not pass through the screening for the credible fear test that has been referred to or they will get to the immigration judge, who will decide either they'll be allowed to stay because they have a valid asylum claim or the immigration judge will order them sent back to Haiti.

GWEN IFILL: Ms. Parks, why do you think it's different for Haitians than for Cubans, or for people from other nations, and what do you think should be changed about that if you think that this is a bad policy?

DINA PAUL PARKS: Well, I think Mr. Ting was absolutely correct in saying the Cubans have special treatment; they always have for all of the reasons from which he spoke. But I think beyond that, if the policy could go back to what it was before December 14 of last year, which is really to treat Haitians as any other similarly situated asylum seeker, I mean, we're talking about a directive that came from Washington, from headquarters to basically -- basically saying you should jail people, you should jail asylum seekers based on their country of origin. That's not something that should be allowed to happen in the United States; it's not something that anyone should be advocating, much less purposefully supporting. So I think that with the court cases that we have going forward, hopefully we'll get the policy back to what it was before December 14, which is to basically give everyone the opportunity to put their case before the court and get their fair day in court, because when you're in jail it's very difficult to find a lawyer to find the time to prepare a case as everybody else has.

GWEN IFILL: All right Dina Paul Parks and Jan Ting, thank you for joining us.

RAY SUAREZ: Still to come on the NewsHour tonight: Clean elections in Arizona; and the gubernatorial sweepstakes.

FOCUS ARIZONA CLEAN ELECTIONS

RAY SUAREZ: Ted Robbins of KUAT Tucson has the clean election story.

TED ROBBINS: Matt Salmon is a politician who raises money the old-fashioned way, he asks for it.

MATT SALMON: That's why you're here today. You voluntarily came, to contribute to my campaign.

TED ROBBINS: Salmon is the Republican candidate for governor of Arizona. A former Congressman, he is running a traditional campaign, holding on average one fundraiser every other evening.

SPOKESPERSON: Perfect.

TED ROBBINS: This one at a phoenix home is with Sportsman for Salmon, a hunting and fishing group.

SPOKESMAN: Are you a member of the NRA?

SPOKESMAN: I am. I am.

TED ROBBINS: Salmon's opponent, Janet Napolitano, spends no time fundraising, just campaigning.

JANET NAPOLITANO: What do you think are the key challenges you're confronting right now, and how can the governor help?

TED ROBBINS: This is a meeting with school superintendents from around the state. Napolitano is the Democratic candidate for governor, and the state's current attorney general. She is running under Arizona's clean election law. Once candidates choose to run so-called "clean" campaigns, they are forbidden from fundraising. Arizona's voters passed the Citizens Clean Elections Act four years ago, following a decade of political scandal, including one governor who was impeached, and another who resigned following a felony fraud conviction. Arizona is one of four states with clean elections laws; more than 30 states and cities are considering them. The law's intent seems simple, to lessen the influence on candidates of big money and special interest by publicly funding campaigns. But so-called clean elections candidates still need to find donors to qualify; small donors, and lots of them.

JANET NAPOLITANO: The bookkeeping: You're collecting $4,000 five dollar contributions. You have a form in triplicate...

TED ROBBINS: A candidate for governor must collect 4,000 contributions of five dollars each, and submit this form for each one.

JANET NAPOLITANO: The overwhelming majority of our five dollar contributions came from two sources: One is people who had given to me in the past, and I wrote all of my previous donors and asked if they could give five dollars and fill out the form; and the second was a series of house parties all around Arizona, but that's also a way to start campaigning and getting your message out.

TED ROBBINS: Napolitano says running this clean campaign has been easier than her previous one.

JANET NAPOLITANO: Well, I campaign... when I ran for attorney general the old-fashioned way, where you basically spend two-thirds of your time raising money. And I will tell you, now I get to spend my time out actually talking with voters, as opposed to raising money. It's just is a different dynamic altogether.

TED ROBBINS: Matt Salmon also spends plenty of time with voters. Here he attends a candidate forum for business owners.

MATT SALMON: I will not raise taxes.

TED ROBBINS: Salmon says he chose to run a traditional campaign because he opposes the principle of public campaign funding.

MATT SALMON: The reason that I decided not to take... to participate in this government giveaway of tax dollars for campaigning, was really because I believe that it's unconstitutional for a taxpayer to fund political speech they disagree with.

TED ROBBINS: The Arizona Supreme Court recently ruled that the Clean Elections Act is constitutional. The court said taxpayers frequently pay for speech they may not agree with. Taxpayers pay all state legislators' salaries, for instance, regardless of whom they voted for. Here's where money for Arizona's clean elections comes from: A voluntary check-off on the state income tax form, and a 10% surcharge on criminal and civil fines, largely traffic tickets, which account for about two- thirds of the funding. And here's how the money is distributed: For the governor's race, so-called "clean candidates" get a maximum of $1.8 million. The first $600,000 comes right off the bat. The rest of the money is matched dollar for dollar if, and when, a traditionally-funded opponent raises more than the $600,000 threshold. In the last month of the campaign, traditional candidates must report contributions daily.

SPOKESPERSON: Great, that's it. We will target for this event.

SPOKESMAN: We thank you for being here and supporting our campaign for Arizona's future.

TED ROBBINS: When President Bush came to phoenix to campaign for matt salmon at a $700-a-plate fundraiser, Salmon passed the threshold, and Napolitano got matching funds.

JANET NAPOLITANO: I was very grateful the President came to campaign for Matt. ( Laughter ) in fact, I told Matt, I said, "let me sell tickets, come on," you know, "this is great."

TED ROBBINS: Salmon grouses that Napolitano got more public money just because he raised more private money.

MATT SALMON: We raised several hundred thousand dollars but had to subtract from that the cost of the invitations, the cost of the dinners that we paid for. So if we make several hundred thousand, but we have to pay $50,000 in expenses, my opponents get that extra $50,000 as well, and I just don't see the fairness in that.

JANET NAPOLITANO: Matt chose to run the old- fashioned way, and raise money primarily from special interest. And that was his choice. Everybody knew the rules going into this election cycle. We made our choice; I'm happy with it.

TED ROBBINS: But in the long run, Salmon can raise and spend as much money as he wants. Campaign aides say they hope to raise at least $2 million.

SPOKESPERSON: Present attorney general Janet Napolitano...

JANET NAPOLITANO: Hey, Burt. How are you?

TED ROBBINS: Napolitano is limited to running her campaign on the $1.8 million public money maximum.

COMMERCIAL: It's time for new leadership and honest change in Arizona.

TED ROBBINS: So far, both major party candidates have had ample funds for costly TV ads.

COMMERCIAL: ...Arizona is losing jobs. In Congress, I cut wasteful spending, apply for middle- class tax relief, help pass a balanced budget.

COMMERCIAL: There is a difference. As our attorney general, Janet Napolitano, took on Qwest to stop the fraudulent billing of Arizona customers. But Matt Salmon was a paid lobbyist for Qwest-- even while running for governor.

TED ROBBINS: he clean elections law regulates only funding, not speech, so Napolitano can run ads, like this one, attacking her opponent. The real question may be whether the law is accomplishing its goal, whether it reduces the influence of special interests and big money in government.

SPOKESPERSON: Right, right.

TED ROBBINS: Darcy Olson says it doesn't. She heads the conservative Goldwater Institute, based in Phoenix. The institute studied the effect of the clean elections law on legislative voting records.

DARCY OLSEN, Goldwater Institute: You can predict along party lines whether they vote for the legislature favored by the Sierra Club or the National Rifle Association or any number of these groups, but it is the party ideology, which is correlated to that, and there is no relationship at all to how they finance their campaigns.

SPOKESPERSON: What's the group that you're meeting with tomorrow in California?

TED ROBBINS: Cecelia Martinez heads the Clean Elections Institute, a group that advocates for the law. Martinez says legislators who won using public funds tell her the law does have an effect.

CECELIA MARTINEZ, Clean Elections Institute: And I heard from one candidate who said to me, "you know, one of my colleagues has a debt of $10,000," and a lobbyist said, "I can get rid of that debt in one night." And, you know, there is no way that a person, even the best person in the world, can't somehow feel indebted to a lobbyist who says, "I'll take care of your debt in one night."

TED ROBBINS: Arizona's had only one previous election under the Clean Elections Act, and none for statewide offices before this year. So the law's long-term influence is still hard to judge. In the short run, Matt Salmon keeps collecting checks, knowing Janet Napolitano is keeping pace with public money, but hoping he can raise more than her limit. And money could make the difference.

SPOKESPERSON: I'm on your team.

TEDD ROBBINS: Most polls say the race is still a tossup.

FOCUS CAMPAIGN 2002

RAY SUAREZ: Well, as you just heard, Election 2002 is less than a week away. Much attention has been focused on the campaigns for the U.S. Senate and the House of Representatives, where the control of both chambers hang in the balance. Maybe not as heralded, but perhaps as important, are the 36 states that will be electing Governors. 16 incumbents are seeking reelection; 20 are open seats. To sort through the trends and some of the more interesting races, we're joined by two veteran political watchers: Ron Faucheux, the editor-in-chief of the magazine "campaign and elections"; and Chuck Todd, chief editor of "5he Hotline," a daily political newsletter. Well, a week and what is the importance of the Governor's races with all of this emphasis on the House and Senate, what are we missing that's important

CHUCK TODD: Well, the Governor's races are in some way the most interesting races. The Senate is down to about six races; the House is down to 20 races. The Governorship is there is 26 races we have of the 36 with the leaders in the polls is under 50%. This is where the anti-incumbent moved that people are looking for. This is where it's at. Anti-incumbents or anti-incumbent parties, they are all struggling because the budget messes. All of the budget messes that we're arguing about here, they've all come to roost in these statehouses and these governors, these incumbent party Governors, and the incumbent Governors themselves are struggling with budget messes and that's what almost the crux of every argument in every state is about.

RAY SUAREZ: Ron, are there a lot more seats in play, is there a lot more movement in these statehouses because of term limits, which you don't have at the federal level?

RON FAUCHEUX: Well, you do have that as part of it because you have 20 open seats of the 36 right now. But it's as you said, all of these economic problems have sort of come home to roost at the gubernatorial level. While Congress is talking about education and the environment and consumer protection and crime and all of these other issues, Governors in state legislatures are doing things about them. So who is elected Governor is very important for this country from a policy making standpoint as well as from Presidential politics. Six of the last seven Presidential races were won by Governors and former Governors, so they're important elections, and as Chuck said, you know, there is a lot of possible turnover.

CHUCK TODD: And another thing that folks miss with these Governors races is that they are the dominant races in these states. We're all so focused on out here, for instance, before Senator Wellstone passed away -- in Minnesota it was the Governor's race that was getting more attention in, South Carolina it's the Governor's race was getting more attention, even though here in Washington we get consumed with the battle of the Senate. So the issues that are driving voters for the polls are what's being run on in the Governor's races.

RAY SUAREZ: Well, each of you have chosen some hot races that you think are interesting for one reason or another. Let's sort of rift through them. Minnesota.

RON FAUCHEUX: Well, Minnesota is interesting because you currently have an independent Governor who is neither a Democratic or Republican. You have a three-way Governor's race between Tim Penny, a former Democratic conservative reform, moderate Democratic runner of Congress, who is running as the independent candidate; you've got Roger Moe, who is the Democratic leader in the Senate and Tim Pawlenty, the Republican leader in the House. It has been a pretty close election. There are some recent indications that's Penny's vote may be dropping some. But it's a very interesting race, because there is an opportunity, a greater opportunity there than any state in the country to elect a non-Democrat or non-Republican Governor.

RAY SUAREZ: And quickly, does Walter Mondale's arrival in the race have spillover effects into the Governor's race?

RON FAUCHEUX: Well, you would think perhaps it would; you would think that the Democratic base in the stake would be energized, although the only round of polling I have seen since then is showing that's not the case.

RAY SUAREZ: Todd, Maryland where they haven't elected a Republican since Spiro Agnew.

CHUCK TODD: Yes. This is their best chance they've ever had. You have the Democrat one time superstar in waiting Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, who has a lieutenant Governor was seriously touted as Al Gore's running mate in 2000, and then you had the Republican here, Bob Erlich. It is as good of a chance Republicans have ever had of winning the seat. He has survived this onslaught. You know, Maryland is a very Democratic state, but he has survived this onslaught from her; she raised a ton of money; but he did pretty well in the fund-raising. He's not the right wing Republican that Maryland Democrats have been beating up on for years. He really is this very middle-of the-road guy. He represented his congressional district was a Democratic leaning district, and so he always had to survive those elections. He never had tough elections; he voted just Democratic enough just to the left in his party to keep that seat. So there weren't a lot of votes for them... for her to beat him up on. The fact that he's ahead in two new polls that we have seen; one out of the Baltimore Sun had him up four; another tonight that is going to be in the papers tomorrow has him up one. The fact that he's up this late she has beaten him up on the air, tried to take advantage of the gun issue when guns were a very potent issue during the whole sniper investigation, and it hasn't taken. You just kind of see that maybe she is not going to pull this off.

RAY SUAREZ: Ron, Massachusetts?

RON FAUCHEUX: Well, Massachusetts is another Democratic state where the Republicans have a shot at winning the Governorship. They have held the Governorship now for the last three elections they have won. The incumbent Governor who is in effect the caretaker Governor Jane Swift, a Republican who took over the position when elected Republican Governor became an ambassador from President Bush's appointment, Swift was moved out of the election in a bloodless coup by the Republican leadership in the state because her numbers looked so bad. And they brought in Mitt Romney, who was probably their best shot by far. Romney has hung in there. The Democratic candidate, Shannon O'Brien, went through a contentious primary but came out if it in pretty good shape. It's a very, very close election. The last round of polls give O'Brien a very slight lead but it could go either way.

RAY SUAREZ: Florida?

CHUCK TODD: Florida. What's there to say about Florida? Already tonight folks have seen Governor Bush. It seems like everything that happens in this country somehow happens in Florida first and Governor Bush has to deal with it. This race if you watch the race on television and it was Jeb Smith versus Bill Smith rather than what it is, you would say this race is all about education and funding of education. But the reality is even though that's what Bill McBride, who is the Democratic nominee, is running on, he is basically -- it's a replay of Bush versus Gore, and anybody who doesn't look at this race any other way is not following what's going on down there. It's a battle of wills in some respect, and it's the one place that Democrats believe they can embarrass the President. And if they beat his brother, his brother loses, then they feel like they will have embarrassed the President. So that's their ground zero -- the Senate, House, forget if, if they can beat Jeb Bush, then that sends the signal nationally, they can beat the brother.

RAY SUAREZ: Ron, Tennessee?

RON FAUCHEUX: Tennessee is a state that's had a Republican Governor. The current Republican Governor Don Sundquist is unpopular; he got on the wrong side of tax issues. The Republican candidate Congressman -- Republican Congressman Van Hilleary has actually opposed Sundquist's tax program and has had a very contentious relationship with the current Republican Governor. The Democratic candidate is former Nashville Mayor Phil Bredesen, who ran against Sundquist eight years ago. After the Republican primary, which was so divisive where you had a Republican Governor and a Republican candidate for Governor at odds with one another, many people thought that the Democrats had a great shot to pick it up but Van Hilleary has hung there very well. The last round of polling is showing it within a couple of points either way, and so it's really up for grabs and it's an interesting state because all the problems, the fiscal problems, the spending problems, the deficit problems that so many states are seeing are coming together in Tennessee in an interesting way.

RAY SUAREZ: You talked about Florida being in the shadow of the 2000 race; is Texas in the shadow of it..

CHUCK TODD: It is but not as much because everybody that's running in Texas and this is not just in the Governorship, it's in the Senate race, it's in the Lieutenant Governors race -- all is running even the Democrats by first saying we love President Bush. Then they say but this is why I'm running and this is why you should elect me. This Governor's race is fascinating on so many levels and it's not just the Governor's race; it's paired up with that Senate race. The Democrats have nominated a Latino businessman Tony Sanchez, who is self-funding the race; he's probably going to be spending at the end $75 million in the state alone, maybe more we may find out later, but a minimum of $75 million. The Republican Governor is Rick Perry; he assumed the Governorship. It's never easy to run on your own. He never got the good time poll numbers that Governors got in the late 90s. He assumed it right when suddenly the budget problems were coming and so he never was that popular in the first place. It's by far the nastiest TV ad campaign in the country. They have both have used police blotting photographs of the other in their ads. It's just downright dirty. I couldn't even tell you what the issues are about because they just are too busy beating each other up personally.

RAY SUAREZ: Any indication that turnout is going to be higher because of all these interesting races, at least in states like these that you've been talking about?

RON FAUCHEUX: Well, oftentimes when you have close elections, it pumps up turnout at the end, although the trend has been in midterm elections recently for turnout to keep going down. That's an opportunity for both sides. The lower turnout is the more each side has a chance to manipulate to its advantage. Republican consultants from around the country that I've talked to in the last week are scared to death that some of these close races -- Governor's races as well as congressional races will flip to the Democrats with Democratic base turnout.

RAY SUAREZ: Ron Faucheux, Chuck Todd, thank you both.

FINALLY - HALLOWEEN

RAY SUAREZ: Finally tonight, the children prepare their spooky costumes for tomorrow night, the grownups stock-up on candy, and former poet laureate Robert Pinsky has a poem.

ROBERT PINSKY: Part of the point of Halloween seems to be we have met the enemy and he is us as the late Walt Kelley has a cartoon character say. Fear of what is inside us and fear of what we put on. on the outside is giving a sharp adult definition in this short poem by Charles Simic.

"Empire of Dreams."

"On the first page of my dream book, it is always evening in an occupied country. Hour before curfew. The houses all dark. The store fronts gutted. I am on a street corner where I shouldn't be, alone and coatless. I have gone out to look for a black dog who answered to my whistle. I am holding a kind of Halloween mask which I am afraid to put on."

RECAP

RAY SUAREZ: Again, the major developments of this day: There were signs the UN Security Council might be moving closer to a compromise resolution on Iraq. The U.S. and France reportedly narrowed their differences over military action and the coalition government of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon collapsed in a budget dispute. Sharon might have to call early elections. We'll see you online and again here tomorrow evening. I'm Ray Suarez. Thank you and good night.