The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

JIM LEHRER: Good evening. I'm Jim Lehrer. On the NewsHour tonight: The news of this Monday; then, extended excerpts from today's opening session of the John Roberts Supreme Court confirmation hearings, with analysis from legal scholars Kathleen Sullivan and Doug Kmiec; plus looks at two of the Hurricane Katrina recovery's most serious ongoing challenges-- restoring adequate health care to survivors and helping evacuees find new and worthwhile lives.

NEWS SUMMARY

JIM LEHRER: Confirmation hearings began today on John Roberts, to be chief justice of the United States. Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee urged Roberts to avoid pointed questions on major issues. John Cornyn of Texas said: "Decline to answer any question you feel would compromise your ability to do your job." But Democrats objected. Russ Feingold of Wisconsin said: "If they mean that tough questions are out of bounds, I must strongly disagree." In his own statement, Roberts said judges must play a "limited" role. He'll begin fielding questions tomorrow. We'll have much more on today's hearing right after this News Summary.

Michael Brown resigned today as head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency. He'd drawn intense criticism for FEMA's response to Hurricane Katrina. Today, he said resigning was his idea. He told the Associated Press: "It's in the best interest of the agency and the best interest of the president to do that and get the media focused on the good things that are going on." Brown was replaced last Friday as head of the on-site recovery operations.

The president declined to comment directly on Brown's resignation. Instead, he focused on damage and signs of progress in New Orleans and elsewhere. But his latest tour of the hurricane zone came as authorities made a grisly discovery. Betty Ann Bowser narrates our report on the day's events.

BETTY ANN BOWSER: President Bush had to duck downed power lines today as had made his first on-the-ground survey of New Orleans. This is Mr. Bush's third visit to the region in ten days -- part of the continuing effort to both assess the destruction done by the storm and contain the damage from criticism of the federal response to the crisis.

SPOKESMAN: In Louisiana we've had a --.

BETTY ANN BOWSER: He was briefed aboard the U.S.S. Iwo Jima this morning by the man now heading the federal relief effort -- Coast Guard Vice Admiral Thad Allen. After his tour of the city, Mr. Bush spoke with reporters, before heading to Mississippi later in the day. He denied that race played any role in the perceived slowness of the federal response.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: The storm didn't discriminate and neither will the recovery effort. When those Coast Guard choppers, many of whom are first on the scene, were pulling people off roofs, they didn't check the color of a person's skin. They wanted to save lives.

BETTY ANN BOWSER: More than 40 hospital patients were not saved. Their bodies were found at Memorial Medical Center. The death toll in the wider region is now over 500.

Filthy water still infests the city. The New Orleans Times Picayune reported that the threat from toxins in the water is not as great as earlier thought, but that bacterial levels remain high and dangerous.

Round-the-clock pumping operations continue. About 50 percent of the city remains flooded, two weeks after Katrina struck. Lower water levels are allowing for the first inspections in parts of the city; where once there was water, there is now a putrid and viscous coating of mud.

Large swaths of the city are a total loss. One major insurer estimates that claims from the storm could top $40 billion, a record. Repairs to New Orleans crippled infrastructure are beginning. Officials hope to have partial sewer and water service restored soon. Trash collection has begun. And utility workers have started the monumental task of preparing the city's electrical and communication systems. Some residents remain in New Orleans, in violation of a mandatory evacuation order.

RESIDENT: We're here, we're fine.

BETTY ANN BOWSER: There's been no indication that force has been used to remove anyone as was threatened last week. One Guardsman even saw the famously irrepressible spirit of the city in one holdout.

GUARDSMAN: We know you're up there; we saw you dancing up there.

BETTY ANN BOWSER: Some business owners are being allowed back into New Orleans to gather vital records and to assess damage to their property. There are some 300 first responders from New York City in Louisiana, aiding recovery efforts. They took time yesterday, Sept. 11, to solemnly recall that day four years ago, as they work amid the ruins in another American city.

Firefighters also returned with a gift, given to New York's department in the wake of 9/11: A fire truck, called the Spirit of Louisiana that was donated by the city of New Orleans.

JIM LEHRER: There were signs of progress in Mississippi as well, two weeks after the hurricane hit. Northrop Grumman called back thousands of shipyard workers to jobs in Pascagoula, and authorities in coastal Harrison County said most roads there had been cleared and most homes had running water again. We'll have more on the hurricane story later in the program.

Hurricane Ophelia dropped back to a tropical storm again today, and kept the Carolinas waiting. The storm was inching northwest, about 250 miles off Cape Hatteras. Nearly all of the North and South Carolina coastlines were on alert.

A power outage hit large parts of Los Angeles this afternoon. The lights went out after two power surges. The Fire Department had reports of people stuck in elevators and traffic tied up at intersections. Police said there was no indication it was terrorism.

Iraq claimed today 200 insurgents were killed in fierce fighting near the Syrian border; 5,000 Iraqi troops backed by 3,500 Americans attacked Tal Afar on Saturday. It was the second offensive there in a year. Troops went house to house in some places. Iraqi officials said more than 300 guerrillas were captured. Hundreds more escaped through tunnels. U.S. officials said many were foreign fighters coming through Syria.

In Washington today, the U.S. Ambassador to Iraq warned the Syrians to stem that flow.

SPOKESMAN: Our patience is running out with Syria. They need to decide, are they going to be with a successful Iraq, or are they going to be an obstacle to the success of Iraq. Iraq will succeed. Iraq will succeed. Syria has to decide what price it willing to pay in making Iraq's success difficult.

JIM LEHRER: The ambassador offered no proof of his claims about Syria, and he would not elaborate on what the United States might do. Al-Qaida accused U.S. forces of using poison gas in the assault on Tal Afar. The accusation came in an audio message. It was said to be from Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the group's leader. The U.S. Military denied ever using poison gas.

The last Israeli troops left Gaza today, ending 38 years of military rule. Palestinians flooded in to abandoned settlements near the Egyptian border before dawn. Some fired guns, others kissed the ground. Crowds also burned several deserted synagogues.

Japanese Prime Minister Koizumi vowed today to move forward with far-reaching economic reforms. His party, the Liberal Democrats, scored a landslide victory in parliamentary elections on Sunday. Koizumi said his first priority would be to privatize Japan's postal savings and insurance systems. He's also expected to continue support for the coalition in Iraq.

On Wall Street today, the Dow Jones Industrial Average gained four points to close at nearly 10,683. The NASDAQ rose seven points to close above 2182.

And that's it for the News Summary tonight. Now it's on to: The Roberts hearings; the hurricane's health challenges; and relocation problems.

FOCUS - THE ROBERTS HEARINGS

JIM LEHRER: Day one of the Roberts confirmation hearings. Kwame Holman reports.

KWAME HOLMAN: Just before noon today, the chairman and ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee escorted Judge John Roberts into the historic Senate caucus room to begin the first Supreme Court confirmation hearings since 1994.

Roberts originally chosen by President Bush to replace retiring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor was re-nominated last week to be chief justice, following the death of William Rehnquist. If confirmed, Roberts would be the high court's youngest leader in more than 200 years.

Roberts first introduced family members to the committee, then sat quietly for the next three and a half hours. That time was reserved for the committee's 18 senators, each of whom took the allotted ten minute to deliver opening statements.

Chairman Arlen Specter alerted fellow senators that he would allow wide latitude in the questioning of Roberts.

SEN. ARLEN SPECTER: Senators have the right to ask whatever question they choose, and you, Judge Roberts, have the prerogative to answer the questions as you see fit, or not to answer them as you see fit.

KWAME HOLMAN: In fact, it was clear from the opening statements that Democrats and Republicans differ widely over the types of questions that should be asked and whether Roberts should answer them. Texas Republican John Cornyn warned Roberts responding to so-called litmus test questions.

SEN. JOHN CORNYN: Don't take the bait. Do exactly what every nominee of every Republican president and every Democrat president has done. Decline to answer any question that you feel would compromise your ability to do your job. The vast majority of the Senate, I am convinced, will not punish you for doing so.

KWAME HOLMAN: But Wisconsin Democrat Russ Feingold said tough and probing questions are justified when a lifetime appointment to the nation's highest court is at stake.

SEN. RUSS FEINGOLD: It is not undignified to ask questions that press the nominee for his views on the important areas of the law that the Supreme Court confronts. It is not undignified to review and explore the nominee's writings, his past statements, the briefs he's filed, the memos he has written. It is not undignified to ask the nominee questions he would rather not answer, should he prefer to remain inscrutable or worse yet all things to all people.

KWAME HOLMAN: Utah Republican Orrin Hatch disagreed.

SEN. ORRIN HATCH: The senators' desire to know something is not the only consideration on the table. Some have said that nominees who do not spill their guts about whatever a senator wants to know are hiding something from the American people. Some compare a nominee's refusal to violate his judicial oath or abandon judicial ethics to taking the Fifth Amendment. These might be catchy sound bites, but they are patently false.

KWAME HOLMAN: But New York Democrat Charles Schumer said Judge Roberts' long career and private practice and short tenure as a federal judge leave important questions unanswered.

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER: In a sense, we have seen maybe 10 percent of you -- just the visible tip of the iceberg -- not the 90 percent that is still submerged. And we all know that it is the ice beneath the surface that can sink the ship.

For this reason, it is our obligation to ask, and your obligation to answer questions about your judicial philosophy and legal ideology.

KWAME HOLMAN: Beyond the debate over the propriety of questions, senators voiced concerns about several recent decisions by the high court. Ohio Republican Mike DeWine.

SEN. MIKE DeWINE: Many Americans believe that the Supreme Court is unmaking the Constitution that our founders drafted, and many fear that our court is making policy when it repeatedly strikes down laws passed by elected members of Congress and elected members of the state legislatures.

I must tell you, Judge, I too am concerned. Judges are not members of Congress. They're not elected. They're not members of state legislatures, they're not governors. They're not presidents. Their job is not to pass laws, implement regulations, nor to make policy.

KWAME HOLMAN: California Democrat Dianne Feinstein, the only woman on the committee, said Roberts' willingness to uphold Roe versus Wade was of paramount importance to her.

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN: I'm concerned by a trend on the court to limit this right, and thereby to curtail the autonomy that we have fought for and achieved, in this case, over just simply controlling our own reproductive system, rather than having some politicians do it for us.

It would be very difficult for me to vote to confirm someone whom I knew would overturn Roe V. Wade.

KWAME HOLMAN: Once all 18 senators had spoken, Chairman Specter asked Judge John Roberts to stand.

SEN. ARLEN SPECTER: If you would raise your right hand and, they've asked know do this slowly because this is their one photo op. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony through give before this committee on the Judiciary of the United States Senate will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

JUDGE JOHN ROBERTS: I do.

SEN. ARLEN SPECTER: Thank you, you may be seated.

KWAME HOLMAN: It was now Judge Roberts' turn to speak, and he did so without referring to notes.

JUDGE JOHN ROBERTS: Judges and justices are servants of the law, not the other way around. Judges are like umpires. Umpires don't make the rules; they apply them. The role of an umpire and a judge is critical. They make sure everybody plays by the rules, but it is a limited role. Nobody ever went to a ball game to see the umpire.

Judges have to have the humility to recognize that they operate within a system of precedent shaped by other judges equally striving to live up to the judicial oath. And judges have to have the modesty to be open in the decisional process to the considered views of their colleagues on the bench.

Mr. Chairman, when I worked in the Department of Justice in the Office of the Solicitor General, it was my job to argue cases for the United States before the Supreme Court. I always found it very moving to stand before the justices and say, I speak for my country.

But it was after I left the Department and began arguing cases against the United States that I fully appreciated the importance of the Supreme Court and our constitutional system.

Here was the United States, the most powerful entity in the world, aligned against my client, and yet all I had to do was convince the court that I was right on the law and the government was wrong, and all that power and might would recede, in deference to the rule of law. That is a remarkable thing. It is what we mean when we say that we are a government of laws and not of men. It is that rule of law that protects the rights and liberties of all Americans. It is the envy of the world, because without the rule of law, any rights are meaningless.

Mr. Chairman, I come before the committee with no agenda. I have no platform. Judges are not politicians who can promise to do certain things in exchange for votes. I have no agenda, but do I have a commitment. If I am confirmed, I will confront every case with an open mind. I will fully and fairly analyze the legal arguments that are presented. I will be open to the considered views of my colleagues on the bench. And I will decide every case based on the record, according to the rule of law, without fear or favor to the best of my ability. And I will remember that it's my job to call balls and strikes, and not to pitch or bat.

KWAME HOLMAN: Judge Roberts then paused to reflect on his boyhood days in Indiana.

JUDGE JOHN ROBERTS: I think all of us retain from the days of our youth certain enduring images. For me those images are of the endless fields of Indiana, stretching to the horizon, punctuated only by an isolated silo or barn. And as I grew older, those endless fields came to represent for me the limitless possibilities of our great land.

Growing up, I never imagined that I would be here in this historic room, nominated to be the chief justice. But now that I am here, I recall those endless fields with their promise of infinite possibilities, and that memory inspires in me a very row found commitment.

If Iam confirmed, I will be vigilant to protect the independence and integrity of the Supreme Court. And I will work to ensure that it upholds the rule of law and safe guards those liberties that make this land one of endless possibilities for all Americans.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank you members of the committee. I look forward to your questions.

KWAME HOLMAN: Judge Roberts will have an opportunity to answer those questions starting at 9:30 tomorrow morning when the hearings resume.

JIM LEHRER: And to Margaret Warner.

MARGARET WARNER: So what do today's opening statements from Judge Roberts and members of the Judiciary Committee tell us about him and what we may expect as the hearings unfold?

For that we're joined by two constitutional law scholars, who follow the court closely: Kathleen Sullivan, law professor and former dean of the Stanford Law School; and Douglas Kmiec, a professor at Pepperdine Law School and former dean of Catholic University Law School. Welcome to you both.

Kathleen Sullivan, I'll begin with you. A six and a half minute opening statement -- if you were looking at that, parsing it to try to understand Judge Roberts' judicial philosophy, what would you see?

KATHLEEN SULLIVAN: Well, Margaret, it was a picture perfect opening to say that he would be open minded. But the real test will come when the questions begin tomorrow and we see what he says in answer to substantive questions about privacy, about Congressional power to regulate the environment and protect civil rights, and about limits on executive discretion. And so while it was a beautiful opening statement, we won't know what it really means until he answers the questions starting tomorrow.

MARGARET WARNER: Doug Kmiec, the opening statement, did the umpire analogy work for you?

DOUGLAS KMIEC: I thought it worked brilliantly. The proposition that the umpire does not create the rules, the proposition that no one goes to the game to see the umpire is a reminder that it's Congress and the president that are formulating these policies, and that -- that really was the theme of at least the Republican side of the Senate committee today, and that is this is an inquiry that is to respect the separation of powers and the limited role, albeit important role, of the Judiciary to interpret the Constitution and the statutes, as passed by the Congress but not to expect the nominee to run on a political platform or to be expressing his personal views about disputed political issues or about past cases. What they are going to inquire into appropriately is his general understanding of the law.

MARGARET WARNER: And, Kathleen Sullivan, how about the umpire analogy, did that work for you? Do you think that stands up when you think of what a Supreme Court Justice does?

KATHLEEN SULLIVAN: Well, it portrays a fairness, a judiciousness, and open mindedness that's appropriate for the judicial role. But let's face it, Margaret, with all of the talk today from the Republican side about how judges should respect the political branches and they should not legislate from the bench, let's face it, over the period of the Rehnquist court, and we mourn the great Chief Justice William Rehnquist, but the hallmark of his court with Republicans dominating it was to strike down congressional statute after congressional statute.

So if you want to go to the umpire metaphor, they called a lot of outs and a lot of strikes on the act of Congress -- in one six-year period, the Rehnquist court struck down 30 federal laws, more than any time since the New Deal. So respect for the political branches suggests more respect for Congress when it legislates to protect commerce or civil rights.

MARGARET WARNER: Professor Kmiec, were you surprised that that was one issue that seemed to unite both Democrats and Republicans? Quite a few of the senators talked about the propensity of the Rehnquist court to strike down what they had done.

DOUGLAS KMIEC: Well, it's obvious that this is part of the dynamic between the Congress and the court. This is part of the separation of powers and checks and balances, and yes, I do think there will be specific questions about his understanding of the commerce power, about the respect of authority of the federal and state government.

Again, he has to be very careful, as Justice Ginsburg pointed out in her own confirmation hearings and as she pointed out eloquently on the Supreme Court in a case a few years back, not to step over the line, make pledges or promises or predictions, but I do think Congress is going to want to know, does this judge have an appropriate deference for Congress when they are within the scope of their authority? But of course we also want to know that when Congress oversteps that authority that this judge has the capacity to interpret the limitations on power to protect or as he put it safeguard individual rights.

MARGARET WARNER: I'm going to stay with you Professor Kmiec, because we're having a little trouble with the audio at Stanford. Talk to us about the common theme of the Democrats and what they'll really be looking for. In other words, if Judge Roberts is to be confirmed by let's say a big bipartisan vote, as many justices have been, what did you hear today that told you what the Democrats are looking for?

DOUGLAS KMIEC: Well, I think the real problem on the Democratic side is that they've got a nominee here who is of such superb quality and articulateness that their primary interests seem to be in terms of their statements in policies, that they are going to ask about affirmative action, they're going to ask about gay rights. They're going to ask about the right of privacy.

They're going to go down the laundry list of difficult issues that we expect the legislature in the executive to deal with. And quite frankly, I think they will be somewhat frustrated that John Roberts will decline to substitute himself to, as he said, make the umpire into the batter or the pitcher or the catcher.

Sen. Schumer, Margaret, said the key for him was entirely ideology, but compare that statement to Sen. Graham's statement, Sen. Graham of course being one of the pivotal figures who carved out the compromise that ended the judicial filibuster, Sen. Graham said, look, we understand that John Roberts is of a conservative mind. There's nothing wrong in that. President Bush is of a conservative mind and he won the election. And the ideological question is determined every four years when presidents are elected; they're not determined when we're determining the merits and fitness of judicial candidates.

MARGARET WARNER: Professor Sullivan, we heard Sen. Kennedy, several other senators talk about the court as an institution that has continually expanded the rights and liberties of individual Americans in different areas, whether it's civil rights, women's rights, so forth, and that they saw the court's role and they wanted to make sure that Judge Roberts was ready to did this, to continue -- not only restrict those rights, but continue actually expand them. Do you see that as a theme that unites everything the Democrats said?

KATHLEEN SULLIVAN: Well, both Sen. Leahy in his opening statement and Sen. Kennedy and the other senators on the Democratic side were very eloquent on that theme. Sen. Leahy began with the preamble to the Constitution, "we the people," and talked about how the concept of the people had expanded to include African-Americans, women and other minorities in the right to vote as well as all the other rights.

So it was very much a theme of the Constitution that's not frozen in time as of 1789, but a Constitution that through the interpretation of the court and the amendments by the people has embraced new rights, but has committed to its original purpose of protecting minorities against oppression. Let's remember, we live not just in a democracy, where the majority can always trample on minority rights, but in a constitutional democracy with a Bill of Rights that protects minorities against majority oppression.

MARGARET WARNER: Did you - let me just interrupt you there. Did you hear from the Republicans a common opposition to that idea?

KATHLEEN SULLIVAN: Well, when the Republicans say don't legislate from the bench, they mean, don't strike down abortion restrictions; don't strike down anti-gay legislation, but they seem fine with striking down all kinds of laws that are designed to control gun use or protect women against violence, or to restore religious liberty. So they're selective in when they think you should strike things down.

But what I heard on the Democratic side, Margaret, was an attempt that really goes beyond this hearing. The Democrats are trying to lay out an affirmative vision of the Constitution that speaks not just to this nominee or these hearings but to the role of this party in shaping the court and I think trying to socialize Justice Roberts when he becomes Chief Justice Roberts to take account of those principles and purposes when he's on the bench.

And they said it as part of this process, Margaret; it is a process that was submitted by the farmers not just to the president but to the president with the advice and consent of the Senate, and they're trying to put a marker down that says the Constitution embraces lots more people besides those who win political victories in legislatures.

MARGARET WARNER: And Doug Kmiec, so if you take what Kathleen Sullivan just said - and you've referred to similar - that similar tension - it's really going to - we're really going to see tomorrow what kinds of questions Judge Roberts is prepared to answer that do offer hints at least about his philosophy.

I mean, there are different categories, right, his own writings, how he feels about past Supreme Court decisions, or more broadly issues?

DOUGLAS KMIEC: Well, I think it's entirely appropriate for John Roberts to answer questions of methodology, how do you come to interpret the Constitution, what sources do you consult, what honor do you give to past decisions, how do you give respect under the doctrine of stare decisis

MARGARET WARNER: Precedent.

DOUGLAS KMIEC: -- when is a case suitable for overruling and when is it not - exactly.

He has to be careful, as Justice Ginsburg was careful in declining to answer over 55 times in her hearings to not step over the line where he is saying, my personal view of the death penalty is thus and such, or my personal view of this past decision is for it or against it.

Justice Ginsburg did her best to never do that and to stick as close as she could to giving an explanation of what the Constitution, as originally ratified, or as construed, has been found to mean, demonstrating her competence, demonstrating her open-mindedness, and as Sen. Graham pointed out, many of her past writings, like John Roberts', had a strong ideological bent to them, but they didn't disqualify her from service by virtue of the fact that she was able to demonstrate her commitment to law.

MARGARET WARNER: All right. Professor Douglas Kmiec and Kathleen Sullivan, thank you both.

JIM LEHRER: Still to come on the NewsHour tonight, Katrina's health and relocation problems.

FOCUS - HEALTH HAZARDS

JIM LEHRER: Now, battling post- hurricane threats to public health. Susan Dentzer of our health unit has a report. The unit is a partnership with the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

SUSAN DENTER: National Guard troops are on patrol all over New Orleans and vicinity. But even as they enforce security, they can't do much about other threats: The ones to the public health.

For starters, there's the contaminated floodwater. Already, tests have shown extremely high levels of bacteria and lead in this noxious mix of storm surge and sewage. These images show how dirty it is, but they can't convey how much it smells. Add in rotting garbage and shuttered restaurant with decaying food, and it's a veritable public held crisis.

Tackling it requires a specially armed force all its own. This building just blocks from the New Orleans flood zone was a hospital until Hurricane Katrina. Now it's being turned into a well guarded command center, for a constellation of federal, state and city agencies. They'll be monitoring and battling all the threats to the public health.

Carol Rubin is a leading expert on emergency responses following hurricanes. She and other colleagues from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have been assessing the health threats, and drawing up plans to overcome them.

CAROL RUBIN: Until I got here, I did not appreciate the scope of this disaster and just how much rebuilding there is to do.

SUSAN DENTER: During the tour of a neighbor near the flood zone, she told us that the most important public health step was nearing completion, evacuating residents of New Orleans and many other flooded areas. Rubin said getting peep out would protect them from a number of harms, like downed power lines, or the absence of potable water, even in the scattered parts of the city where the taps were still running.

CAROL RUBIN: The message I want to give to the community is don't drink it, just because it's coming out of your tap doesn't mean can you drink it, because you can't.

SUSAN DENTER: We asked her about a risk that some public officials had cited, that the corpses of flood victims, a few still floating about, posed a health risk to the living.

SUSAN DENTER: Are the bodies really a risk?

CAROL RUBIN: Actually no. They really do not pose a public health risk.

SUSAN DENTER: In fact, scientists have learned that when a person dies, the body cools, and loses fluids. As that occurs the bacteria and viruses present in it die as well.

CAROL RUBIN: There are certain steps that people who are recovering the bodies should take in terms of personal protective equipment. But the people that are doing that are very well aware of those steps that they should take.

ALI KHAN: (talking to people) How are you and what are you doing here?

SUSAN DENTER: Rubin's colleague, Ali Khan, is a captain in the U.S. Public Health Service and an infectious disease specialist.

SUSAN DENTER: How worried are you, how worried should the public be about a major infectious disease outbreak?

ALI KHAN: We're very fortunate that despite the concern of major infectious outbreaks, they're notvery common after these types of disasters, so that's fortunate. Based on our experience with previous disasters, we have recommendations in place, such as immunization recommendations.

SUSAN DENTER: Specifically, Khan told us that means making sure all rescue workers and others operating in the area get shots for tetanus and hepatitis.

Today military planes sprayed pesticides to control mosquitoes, and avert spread of potentially deadly diseases like West Nile Virus.

Meanwhile, Rubin and Khan have begun touring hospitals in and around New Orleans, to see how long it will take to get the local healthcare system fully back up and running. They started last week at the well-known Ochsner Clinic Foundation Hospital in Jefferson Parish.

PERSON ON PHONE: We have a patient that was evacuated from her house today, obviously not voluntarily.

SUSAN DENTER: It's one of only three area hospitals that remained open after the hurricane and flooding. Dr. Frances Smith is an Ochsner emergency department physician. Like most of the other workers here, she's been living in the hospital since Katrina hit. She described the patients who have been coming in since the storm.

DR. FRANCES SMITH: People with infections, from being contaminated with the water; people with dehydration, or heat exposure illness or heat cramps related to the heat; and a large number of patients who have chronic medical conditions who have not had access to their physician or their medications.

SUSAN DENTER: Thirteen other hospitals and many smaller clinics in the region are still closed. And some have suffered serious damage.

ALI KHAN: We're working with the city and state health department to figure out how to reestablish public health here. As you look around in many of these sites, that infrastructure is really gone, and many of the employees here obviously also lost their homes and also gone.

SPOKESPERSON: The hospitals are so ready to rebuild and they want public health to be not just as good as it was before, they want it to be the best ever, and this can be an opportunity to do that.

SUSAN DENTER: And an opportunity, she says, to reap at least some benefit for New Orleans and the rest of the stricken region.

FOCUS - RELOCATION CHALLENGE

JIM LEHRER: Now, the relocation problems caused by Katrina's wrath. Spencer Michels spent a weekend with a family in Baton Rouge.

SPENCER MICHELS: On a sultry Baton Rouge afternoon, Troynel Wright led a contingent of her relatives to a crowded city shelter looking for help. She is a third year law student living in Baton Rouge, whose studies have been completely disrupted by nearly 20 family members from New Orleans seeking a place to stay in her apartment.

TROYNEL WRIGHT: I have a newborn; he's sleeping in the bed with my two year old and myself. Now it's my mother. My husband sleeps on the floor. Others sleep on the sofa; others sleep on the floor. Wherever. They sleep in the bed, four or five to a bed.

SPENCER MICHELS: The Wright's relatives are among hundreds of thousands of people who have left New Orleans, many of their homes underwater or too damaged to live in, after levees broke flooding the below-sea-level city --130,000 residents didn't have cars. The Wright family got to Baton Rouge any way they could. Jonathan Wright hitchhiked.

REPORTER: The whole family?

JONATHAN WRIGHT: Yes sir, five people, we got on the back of a truck with my 70-year-old mother-in-law and my pregnant daughter.

WOMAN: They had to get me out through a window. They had to break the window and rescue me in a boat.

SPENCER MICHELS: What were you thinking at the time, did you think you were going to make it?

WOMAN: I knew I was going to make it because I'm a survivor.

WOMAN: I'm sick, and I'm taking medicine, and I'm just here. And I'm homeless. I'm homeless.

SPENCER MICHELS: Troynel and Eric Wright live in a two bedroom apartment, former military housing, in the Scotlandville section of Baton Rouge. And now brothers, cousins, nephews, nieces, mothers and in-laws have descended on them.

TROYNEL WRIGHT: Pregnant girl, the grandmother. Children. My baby can't sleep in his baby bed. We're just trying to make do.

SPENCER MICHELS: The one bathroom is overcrowded to say the least.

PERSON: You have to get a number to get in there. (Laughter)

SPENCER MICHELS: For Eric, who got his law degree last year and fears his bar exam may have been lost in the flood, the bills are beginning to pile up, while family income declines.

ERIC WRIGHT: The test is going to be whether we can all survive in this two bedroom house for three months without killing each other. But let the truth be told, my wife and I may have to go the shelter also because if the assistance doesn't come soon, I mean, we can't afford to take care of ourselves and live here.

SPENCER MICHELS: The River Center Shelter the Wrights went to inspect lies across the street from the Mississippi River. The Wrights had to go through a security check, manned by armed MP's from the Nebraska National Guard. This shelter is one of nearly 600 set up in 19 states, almost half in Louisiana alone. And it's run by the Red Cross, mostly by volunteers.

SPOKESPERSON: This is so if you go outside they'll let you back in, okay?

SPENCER MICHELS: Nearly all the 1,700 shelter residents are from downriver. On Sunday a group cheered for the New Orleans Saints from this unlikely location. (Cheers) Red Cross officials say that while the numbers in the shelters have gone down somewhat, this disaster is different from others. Shelter manager Pom Fountain says many evacuees are staying.

POM FOUNTAIN: I've been told time and time again that people from this part of the country don't move around a lot, and so the people are going to wait for their homes. Most of them do not want to relocate.

SPENCER MICHELS: For the extended Wright family, just visiting the shelter offered a chance to sign up for some aid and medical attention that they couldn't seem to get at their overcrowded home. Troynel Wright's mother decided to move to the shelter finding it more comfortable than the apartment.

The population in shelter alone speaks to one of the most perplexing problems facing those displaced by the flood.

SPOKESMAN: We need a way to get them out of here into the community; we need a way to get them out here in Baton Rouge, close to New Orleans, in their own state.

ERIC WRIGHT: The frustration is there, you know, it's just that we don't show it, we try to stay calm as much as possible, you know, to benefit, you know, all the people we have staying with us.

SPENCER MICHELS: What is very frustrating at Eric and Troynel Wright's apartment is not knowing when things will get back to normal and at the Baton Rouge shelter, not knowing how long before residents will be able to leave and when this complex operation can shut down.

JIM LEHRER: Gwen Ifill takes it from there.

GWEN IFILL: Initial estimates suggest nearly one million people like the Wrights were displaced by Katrina; they are part of the largest mass migration of Americans since the 1930s. Communities throughout the country are absorbing the overflow.

We take a look at that now and how they're doing it with Joyce Russell, chief operating officer at Adecco, a temporary employment company working with evacuees; Lee Clarke, a sociologist at Rutgers University whose most recent book, "Worst Cases," is about disaster response; and the Republican governor of Arkansas, Mike Huckabee-- more than 60,000 people have fled to his state since Katrina.

Governor Huckabee, I gather that 60,000 number means that your population has increased by two and a half percent. How are you doing this?

GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: Well, we're handling it very well, Gwen. The people of Arkansas have accepted these folks as neighbors and friends and have asked them to practice the golden rule: Treat them like you want to be treated, and they've done that and I'm very proud of them. This is a disaster that has touched all of our hearts but it has also caused us to reach out our hands, and we try to make sure that we can assimilate these people by spreading out the evacuees not just in one location, but we created 26 camps using church camps that were closed for the summer, perfect timing, and we've been able to get folks there as well as obviously the thousands that are staying either with family, friends, hotels, motels, and other forms of shelter.

GWEN IFILL: What kind of effect or strain has this placed on public services?

GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: Well, once again, because we've spread it out, we have not felt like we've been overwhelmed. I mean, our hospitals are certainly getting a lot of new patients, we have people in nursing homes; we have kids going to public schools by the thousands. But the net result is no one school district is having to absorb all of the impact because of the way they're spread.

But the key reason we felt that spreading evacuees to many parts of the state, they get a lot more personal attention, and one thing we feel very strongly about. These people need to feel as individuals, every one of them is a special person; they don't need to be somehow corralled into making that they're in a group, that everyone has a name. We need to call them by name, let them get to know a volunteer by name, build relationships -- because what they've been through has been very, very dehumanizing.

GWEN IFILL: Professor Clarke, we just heard what the nuts and bolts are -- how you create camps, give people a place to stay. We heard the Wrights talk about the emotional stress of being family on top of family in small spaces in many cases.

Is there an emotional component of this as well that somehow governments and private agencies even have to be prepared to deal with?

LEE CLARKE: Sure there is. And it's a crucial component, because people need to feel a sense of connection to their communities and to their families. If that sense, if it disappears, then we know all kinds of bad things follow from that. It's not clear that government can make those connections happen for people, however.

One of the things I worry about is the second social and psychological disaster that could come from people feeling unmoored and disconnected.

GWEN IFILL: Explain that some more to me. When you mean - unmoored and disconnected - you mean people who are used to be being in the same place, living in the same state in a familiar way, suddenly being plunged into the unfamiliar?

LEE CLARKE: There are two sets of people here. There are people who are going to stay away from New Orleans, and there are people who are going to want to go back. They want to go back - people want to go back for that sense of community that they had there. But it's questionable the degree to which people who do not want to go back are going to be able to make that, those connections, to develop that sense of belonging. I hope that they can.

The good people of Texas, Arkansas and the other host communities have opened their hearts and their wallets, but there's a limit to people's generosity. What I worry about is if, if the evacuees come to be seen as a threat in some way, come to be seen as a burden to schools, tax bases and so on, if they become to be seen that way, then their sense of connection will not be fostered.

GWEN IFILL: Joyce Russell, let's talk about some of the things the evacuees are trying to do, which is get a little work. You've been working with evacuees? What has your experience been like, your company's?

JOYCE RUSSELL: We've had a very positive experience; we've gone to the shelters and found them work. We've reached out to our client companies and found them, found assignments for them, and we've had a very, very positive experience at Adecco.

GWEN IFILL: Explain to me how you do that. Have you been setting up in shelters; have you been reaching out to individuals; do they approach you -- how does that work?

JOYCE RUSSELL: We've actually gone to them. We've gone to the job fairs in each community, we've gone to the shelters and we've gone to them instead of waiting for them to come to us. We found wonderful assignments for them from clerical to call center to light industrial work, and we've not found one victim that has not taken a job when we've offered them employment.

GWEN IFILL: Gov. Huckabee, how do you begin to plan, and this is only a couple weeks we're talking about so far, so maybe it's too soon to say, but how do you begin to plan what the long-term versus the short-term effect might be? Everyone is on board now welcoming folks, but what happens after a while, as Professor Clarke was suggesting?

GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: We see three stages, the immediate stage when they came off the airplanes and busses having not showered or eaten in days; the intermediate phase which is right now, what many of them are experiencing, trying to decide are they going to relocate in Arkansas, will they try to go back or maybe hook up with family elsewhere, and then the long-term, so we've created an enormous level of task force throughout the state, helping people with housing, with employment, getting connected to the schools and community, making them feel as if they would be truly welcome in the community, and much to my delight, churches here have acted like churches; they've really reached out with loving hearts, and they've made people feel wanted. And they are wanted. We're not trying to push these people away somewhere, because we know they've been through a lot of.

We are simply trying to ask, if this were me, how would I want to be treated. And by approaching it that way, it's really not been, well, let me put it this way. It's a difficult task, but not an impossible task.

GWEN IFILL: Have you seen any signs yet of evacuee fatigue?

GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: Well, I think there's always going to be some of that, both from volunteers and evacuees, but right now what we're seeing is an enormous level of gratitude. People are just so grateful that they've been received, that their needs are being met, whether it's their banking needs or dealing with insurance, or helping them to find long term housing or employment, or even the simple things like medication or eyeglasses.

Folks are willing to volunteer. And I know that there's going to come a time when people will just get worn out. But that's why we're trying to accelerate the pace of getting people in a permanent settlement situation.

GWEN IFILL: Professor Clarke, as you've looked at other disasters of this kind where people have been dispersed by other reasons, reasons outside their control, how do communities, how can they prepare for the long-term social and economic integration of these, in many cases, very culturally different people?

LEE CLARKE: It's difficult to say how the communities can prepare. We know that it's entirely normal for communities to open their hearts and to welcome people after disaster, to look after fellow Americans. What we don't know here is going forward, three, six, twelve months, if those people are still being asked to provide for folks who might come to be seen as outsiders, we don't know what those effects are going to be. We don't know how that's going to play out --

GWEN IFILL: I'm sorry -- What is it we know about how it's played out in other cases, in other places where there have been hurricanes or earthquakes?

LEE CLARKE: It's one of the things that is unique about Katrina, the massive dislocation that's going to go on for so long. Possibly the only thing we have to compare it to is, are the Oakies in the late 20s and early 30s. That did not go well. Those people went to California and other states and they were turned away, the term Oakies was not a term of endearment, so indeed those people came to be seen as threats to local communities.

So we owe a great debt of gratitude to the good people of Arkansas and Texas and the other host communities, but we just know that there are limits to people's generosity, going way down the road.

GWEN IFILL: Joyce Russell, what do you do with people who come to you with different kinds of skills - say someone -- we just saw the Wrights in the last piece and they were working -- they have law degrees and they are trying to be upwardly mobile and now they find themselves being pushed back -- people who have come with engineering degrees, and now they're - what -- are they happy for any kind of work, and will that hold for the long-term?

JOYCE RUSSELL: They are, they've not -- they've accepted every assignment that we've offered them. We've had people with construction background and landscaping background and even cooks from New Orleans, but they're taking all kind of work from us. They are packing batteries in a warehouse; they're working at wonderful companies like Nike. So we have not seen them wanting to stay specifically in their skill set. They've been very, very, you know, they've just been open to other assignments.

GWEN IFILL: Is it fair to assume that you're talking about the short-term temporary employment, however?

JOYCE RUSSELL: You know, we don't know if it's temporary or permanent. They might have moved from New Orleans here to Charlotte, North Carolina, and they might think of it as temporary, but they might take up permanent residence here. So we have many people that have temporary assignments as well as interviewed for full-time work right here.

GWEN IFILL: Gov. Huckabee, who pays, to put it bluntly, for all of this? There's a lot of good will right now, but at some point the dollar signs are going to begin to add up.

GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: It is going to be costly, and whether or not the federal government will reimburse a lot of the state costs, we don't fully know. We think they will; we hope they do. But even if they don't, this is really about doing what's right, and what's right is to give these folks a chance to stand on their own feet. That means some of us are going to have to make some sacrifices to do it.

I can assure you, government has spent money in ways that weren't nearly as valuable as it is investing in people who have been through a horrible tragedy, who really do need the assistance that we can offer to them, whether it's getting their kids in school, getting them medically upright -- and even such things, we were talking about employment, we're offering reciprocity to license for electricians and architects, even lawyers -- our Supreme Court has allowed Louisiana attorneys to come.

Now I would say the last thing we need is a whole bunch more lawyers here. But the fact is we're trying to accommodate people who do come with skills and with specialties -- many of which will find a very open market for it.

GWEN IFILL: Is counseling part of that equation as well?

GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: It's a very important part of it. Our mental health facilities throughout the state, particularly our community mental health centers have been activated; again because these folks are spread out, we're not just overwhelming any one mental health center, but we're making sure that teams of mental health professionals there are to help people through post trauma syndrome that we know they're going to experience and many already are.

GWEN IFILL: Gov. Mike Huckabee, Joyce Russell, Lee Clarke, thank you all very much.

RECAP

JIM LEHRER: Again, the major developments of the day: Confirmation hearings began on John Roberts to be chief justice of the United States. Michael Brown resigned as head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Searchers found more than 40 bodies at a New Orleans hospital. There were conflicting accounts of how they died. And a power outage hit much of Los Angeles; later, officials said utility workers caused it when they connected the wrong wires.

JIM LEHRER: And once again to our honor roll of American service personnel killed in Iraq. We add them as their deaths are made official and photographs become available. Here, in silence, are four more.

JIM LEHRER: There's a Washington Week special on the Roberts hearings with Gwen Ifill later tonight. We'll see you online, at 9:30 tomorrow morning on most PBS stations with the Roberts hearings-day two, and again here, of course, tomorrow evening at the NewsHour. I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank you and good night.