The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

no i'm not on july the wisconsin primary results an interview with walter mondale million killed in the palestinian uprising arab hijackers of a kuwaiti jetliner freed some of their captives victory in wisconsin next michael dukakis the clear front runner for the democratic presidential nomination we'll have details in our new summer in a moment your actor the news summary we love the wisconsin primary results in the democratic race with our analysis came a burden and shales and columnist earl caldwell and with a newsmaker interview a former vice president walter mondale and we close with a conversation with television journalist a new author david brinkley combining everything everything everything funding is also provided by the station and other public television stations and the corporation for public broadcasting

the four month old palestinian uprising plaintiffs first civilian israeli victim today when a teenage girl was reported stoned and beaten to death by palestinian villagers to palestinians also were killed and fourteen israelis were injured after the incident potentially the most explosive in the disturbances so far israeli army helicopters sealed off the area around the west bank village of data a cbs news cameraman running joke they gave this account of the pledge a group of israeli children from the settlement of a lawn mower and one a height when arab villagers attack them two adults is courting the hikers fired at the attackers the palestinian started beating them with rocks the girl was killed and two were three teenage hackers were seriously injured palestinian witnesses said the shooting was unprovoked secretary of state george shultz continued his shuttle diplomacy flying to egypt aka more thoughts and israel showed said the differences with prime minister should there

haven't been substantially now adding there's no lasting the deep seated obstacles to peace back in this country democrats and pundits had another significant results ponder today michael dukakis overwhelmingly defeated jesse jackson yesterday in the wisconsin primary caucus got forty eight percent of the vote the jacksons twenty eight albert gore ran third with seventeen paul simon forth with five simon was expected to announce a suspension of his campaign tomorrow campaigning in arizona jackson offered this assessment of what the results map in colorado and wisconsin now momentum continues because that base continues to get rather the applause that response continues to get rolled into our message continues to weigh i mean this is not a one state thirty odd that it wasn't that they stay the catch on to that and i am so glad i'm a long distance runner meanwhile on the inactive republican side there was a meeting

today between robert dole and pat robertson they met and dolls capitol hill office in washington to discuss the future of the republican party dollars already withdrawn from the presidential race in favor of george bush robertson remains officially a candidate with one running very far behind bush was said after their meeting that opened up the party was an important priority so this is the sequel it's b late today arab gunmen were said to be still holding at seven passengers and a kuwaiti airliner hijacked in northeastern around there was one unconfirmed report however that the plane had been stormed and the captives freed during the day the

hijackers release twenty four hostages but three members of the kuwaiti royal family two of them women remained aboard the plane the jetliner is being held by a group of arabic speaking man wearing masks and armed with pistols and candidates the hijackers or demand of them lisa seventeen shiite muslims now in kuwait in jails for the nineteen eighty three bombings of the us and french embassies and the way the government has said it will not about to blackmail and this town won praise today from the us state department us authorities say they suspected cocaine trafficker on a quick trip to present a day of my i was about a plot is a forty three year old founder as man juan ramon market while official prearranged founders police arrested him at his home in honduras last night he was then flown to the dominican republic where authorities quickly kicked him out of the country the us marshals on with arrest warrants grabbed him approve put on a new york bound flight this morning he was taken to the maximum security federal prison in marion illinois do

await trial on charges of drug trafficking and murdering a us drug agent the african nation of ethiopia today ordered all international relief workers out into drought stricken provinces for security reasons the order comes out to the marxist government announced a new offensive against rebels in the area of the civil war as the longest in africa's history and continues to disrupt famine relief efforts to three million people in the region rebel groups in the two provinces of eritrea and t great and i'm making major advances over the last few weeks we have a report from the front by trio know holden of the bbc i mean this was the biggest battle in twenty seven years of warm these pictures taken by the rebels show their fighters advanced into ethiopian territory from peanuts in positions they force ethiopians to retreat towards the main garrison town of alphabet that liberation front fighters had set an ambush in a narrow valley just outside the town this media left them

shows how brutally successful that ambush was there were few survivors soldiers died trapped in their tanks and trucks and was a valley was engulfed in flames the only road out was blocked by incinerated laurie's so there was little chance of any escape just days later the rebels took us to the same valley to prove their claims of a major victory the liberation front claimed that eighteen thousand ethiopians soldiers were captured or killed in the latest battle there are so many prisoners of war that they have to be packed into any available buildings like this old hospital bewildered by their own deals some of them are frightened that they'll be killed there are others though who believe that the eritreans will look after them all the weapons used by the eritreans have been captured from the ethiopians they proudly displayed their latest acquisitions large soviet built artillery guns they say weapons like these will help them end the war

the capture of three soviet offices is also regarded as a crucial developments the rebels hope this will force the soviet union to think again about backing ethiopia i need them as the fighting continues a morale among the rebels is high they believe they've reached a turning point in the war but the ethiopians with their powerful friends in the soviet union show no sign of giving into our trend amongst independents soviet leader mikhail gorbachev went to central asia today to talk about afghanistan the soviet news agency tass said he flew the past cannot in the southern part of the soviet union where he was to be joined by not a ged afghan head of state and soviet foreign minister edward shevardnadze past did not say when the meeting would take place or stated purpose but other sources said it does have to do with plans to withdraw all soviet troops from afghanistan back in this country today was the day new york city's snuffed out smoking in public places one of the more

recognizable new yorkers mayor edward caught displayed one of the signs that went up and businesses that employ more than fifteen person's restaurants with more than fifty seats theaters large stores and taxi cabs after a two month grace period the city will begin lending fines of up to five hundred dollars for illicit smoking antismoking laws smaller than the city council for six months before it was enacted into law and finally in the nearest the stock market jumped sixty four points the second biggest danish year a sharp rise prompted the new york stock exchange once again to restrict computerized program trading that for a summary of the news steelhead former vice president walter mondale joins our analysis of democratic politics after wisconsin that we have a conversation with david brinkley two weeks ago jesse jackson swap

michael dukakis in the michigan caucuses yesterday dukakis was jackson in the wisconsin primary where this exchange of swamps leaves the race for the democratic presidential nomination is what we look at first tonight we began it with a sign three analysts who were were here after the michigan small r gordon and shales analysis team last roll call well david gergen is editor of us news will report mark shields is a syndicated columnist with the washington post he joins us from chicago earl caldwell as a columnist for the new york daily knows my chilled how big a win was a pretty raucous there's a big one in an absolutely indispensable and crucial and critical is being nominated he had to win he did win convincingly edgar in a visitor result of negative reaction to jackson or positive new poverty in those years and four to caucus well we don't have a proportion of the voters who voted for the caucus so they made up their minds in the last week to congress became a more effective candidate in the minds of the voters in the last few days and i think the questions that remains is whether as jesse jackson became a more

serious candidate some ways drew back a bit that weathered an earlier appearances once and seven a message for jackson now i really get serious are saying we're not quite sure where one certain point into carpets roll call it really resolves well i think that dad dukakis did what he had to do he was there in a contest for survival about on the other hand i do not believe the reverend jackson did badly because he is getting somewhere around twenty five percent of the white vote and he has been that in the recent primaries has been around twenty five percent and if that has to continue well he is going to be formidable in this last part of the rights formidable but that's about twenty five percent was not enough to win the nomination and i'm not talking about twenty five percent of the white vote and i am and i'm saying that day these next states that were coming in to reverend jackson has a very strong base he's running to his strength and if he's able to hold it and to twenty five

percent and you add that to his base that he looks very good in new york and pennsylvania ohio and new jersey and california your grave our jails i know i don't yeah i'm i think that dairy jesse jackson that for the first time i had expectations set a high expectations in wisconsin out on to new york and new york is said is to paraphrase the feed yard at great michigan state coach not a matter of life or death one point than that and michael dukakis must win and they're jesse jackson and to be a spoiler and just the continuing challenge of the rest the way must breakthrough i don't see how he does in new york right now and as much as i respect your calls renter most emphatically disagree with his analysis i think in retrospect we may look back and find that jesse jackson peaked in michigan is extremely difficult for him to win new york and was how borders are well that's one vote away because in new york about twenty five percent of the democratic electorate will be black but about twenty five china the letter also the jewish and the jewish vote is not going go for jesse jackson

or memories of my meat and remarks was very uncomfortable going to go the other way until he has to get you know half of the remaining white vote in a two man race against caucus night i think as we are trained to do if gore bills up and could take votes away from the caucus has a judgment when it would otherwise just that it's a very much an uphill battle and after that it's very hard to see it when a place like wild especially india speaking of corporal call well what you're you know where al gore's and now winding gore has a very tough road in new york but he does have david carr who is i recognize political genius in new york and he also has a money and if he's not they're doing here that you'll be other race but to me his big challenges in new york and i believe that he would do fifteen percent and end that i beg to differ i hear that if the court didn't do fifteen percent i think that day jesse jackson could very well come first a new york minute the last time in your key get around twenty six percent of the vote at all

the tumult of the toyo mondale was in that race among those waiting fifteen percent of the black vote jesse ought to get the black vote solid he ought to do very well because he has very good support across the latin communities in new york in the asian communities in new york and i still say that although there are many things have been said here was a tough state for him that new york has the hardcore of liberalism and anti nuclear groups to so conservation groups and that a lot of the end and also very low are and gay lesbian community and jesse jackson is going to do well i think when you start when something's on paper and got dozens of new or cure you you know you'd estimate is that around forty percent mr joel packer gore what that were scorched and european right now where i think a miracle was actually right david garner doesn't take campaigns like them as he exercised total control david this is somebody who understands the free media new york as well as paid media and i think his message very simple i'm al gore is

a fighter i put a fighter your car and he's got the guts to stand up to all these interest including jesse jackson michael dukakis doesn't that'll be that the message and the driver welcome him and debates and as well as his paid advertising there's one other factor in new york we'd we lose a candidate and paul simon reading two more actors and ed koch and that and mario cuomo mayor ed koch for the prices we pay for the european media capital the world ai has more access to television and willard scott and eight he's decided to run for re election as mayor new york city by running against jesse jackson he's a wild card in this election he is obviously going to be the seniority the first male a foreign policy and primate jesse jackson a litmus test for any jewish voter i have that person vote for jesse jackson has already branded and ed koch is a job in crazy so i had that could be a wild card in other ways it could be just that a backlash backlash against koch is an excess of pandering i know what

went wrong or does i don't know if he really wants to help to caucus there were mario cuomo or do is issue a sherman like statement right this minute and say under no circumstances will i accept or seek the nomination of my party in nineteen eighty eight i don't go i will be back to you later yes let's bring into this now in a newsmaker interview former vice president walter mondale the nineteen eighty four democratic presidential nominee who now practices law in minneapolis he joins us from the studios of public station katie ca minneapolis st paul to vice president welcomed let's make you a pundit for a moment what do you think of the wisconsin result that bill does or clarify the race for the democrats i agree with the three previous commentators i thought that the caucus that very well and substantially better than expectations i thought they're jesse jackson did well but i think expectations as they call it played against and because the speculation here was the third jesse might win

wisconsin of course he didn't the second thing that i notice that i think may be very important for these future contests is i think the caucus finally did something he had to do he had been very odd and dignified and god correct in the previous campaigns and i don't think people could feeling they didn't know who we was or what there was behind that they're technically correct exterior this time it was clear to me that he began to show its feelings he began to speak with more strikes about human problems and human feelings and i noticed that for the first time he had been very well among blue collar workers in amman now farmers in the rest of that and i believe if if what i saw in wisconsin which draws her neighbor here mike continues that way i think you're going to see a much better candidate than the help future a nominating estates especially in that this upcoming know your content dear

saint to caucus is now looking very strong for the nomination already you think it is still wide i think he's looking very strong but it's still let's say it's tentative he doesn't have enough of a margin this result was excellent it's what he had to do that of course new york is a terribly important contest and it has those major states coming up and since no one including mike could possibly have the delegates he needs for a nomination it's how he looks going into that convention that really counts i think it's a very good start it's very hopeful that for for the caucus by think he's got there are some serious challenges ahead of him you're saying that nobody is going to have a convention sign up as they go in and delegates is that would tell you do it know it gets very unlikely we need over two thousand delegates for the required majority i believe the caucus has seven hundred and ten we can look at that largely we have a young we have a graphic i think it shows the kind

standing their service to caucus on and when you can say it well i can't say here but i n o s e add seven thirty five that makes my point budget but you must remember that one thing that might throw this off is that there are several hundred delegates committed to candidates who have dropped out or were affected we're no longer in a contest and there's some six hundred superdelegates i myself included have a way of largely not been counted yet now that isn't going to be a bad thing to have a can i want what is generally turned a brokered convention where the influences superdelegates like yourself in a lot of honoring and blubbering barker bargaining is going to have to go on is are going to be a bad thing for the party and overjoyed that were brokered you know that i was going to be an open convention the republicans convention is already close there's no contest the delegates will have something to say about the results of our convention so i think it's going to be more democratic in the small the sense

i do we get so it's hard to speculate at this point i think that the caucus has a good chance of having a strong impressive plurality i just before the convention if so he's going to be in a strong position to be able to plot together a compromise with the other candidates in the other delegates that might bring you a majority very quickly however if he doesn't then i think that it will go to the convention and there's that convention i hope will be pleasant but i hope the negotiations will be civilized but if one looks at past democratic conventions particularly i one can't be too hopeful about that we do on one other point to make and i think it's important for democrats the one away and then i think most of them though that the republicans have already decided they're with their

nominee is the fights over he's raising money for the final actions he's doing his films now he's getting a night's rest he's getting ready for his strategy for the convention in the campaign and we're still fighting each other and that what we could lose there's just by failing to resolve this and that i would hope that as democrats vote in these upcoming contests they yeah they keep in mind the need to get this thing over with these fights can be very harmful and turned to what candidates say about each other the continuing fighting but just as important because somebody has got to have a chance to put the party together and to speak to that broaden the deep issues that confront our country and emma so i hope when get this fight or were unreasonable level what you're saying about the thirties yours first an honor to talk to me cause i was unable to get over

but i know all that that hurt me a lot those charges that were thrown around in the primaries dog me throughout the campaign our failure to put together a unified ticket until the last moment tonight is three four five months that we needed the only thing i think it's for the public to decide i think is for the democrats in these upcoming states to consider among other things how they get this over what were you one way to get it over with perhaps your intelligent others the popular with you said earlier in the year you believed it would be good for party leaders like yourself to get behind a candidate early in the process you haven't endorsed anyone are you planning to i might i don't know yet and i don't know how effective that'll be if i do but i think the democrats the american people we want to get on with the main contest and at some

point i might to have a word to say about it i don't think they'll be very influential but i might in order right now i think not protect let's talk about something or will it has been a central issue for most voters since michigan if jesse jackson worked on the ticket in one capacity or another this fall could the democrats the porsche i don't know or odd there was a poll the other day that i saw showing that under caucus jackson ticket would be that would defeat a bush ticket and i don't know if the caucus for example where the nominee of this he has to make the first choice because there's a lot more than its stake here in other words when you pick a vice presidential nominee you may be picking the next president you're picking somebody that you will have to rely on and work with as closely as a husband works with a wife dodd it is it is a bodice

the end have to make some very deep tough questions answered them about all about how you strengthen your own chances to win i remember nineteen sixty when not kennedy picked lyndon johnson and the convention almost exploded in anger but we now know that if he hadn't done that kennedy would have been president and we lost one of the finest our presidents in our history and all these tough questions would have to be asked and first of all he first played by the nominee himself so i would i would not want a cloud in charlotte says the question another way aren't given mr jackson's showing so far this year can the democrats win with him not on the ticket i mean would blacks turn away if he were given a place after he's won so many votes and delegates well i think that if i hear question correctly did jesse jackson must be treated with

respect and there we must all recognize the tremendous success he's demonstrated as a as a campaigner i think he's doing a much more credible job that he did four years ago he's showing growth and that's all very positive and now but i but i don't know are all that should work out that's what conventions are foreign i wouldn't seek to prejudge it i don't know that they're for example that reverend jackson would be interested in the second voice and it said once that he's not let it idle the conventional wisdom seems to been for much of the year that the democrats should be nominating and selecting a moderate very centrist candidate this year is that still work is that what you think yes i do and i think that's what we're going to do it i don't know let's let's just start with an assumption that the caucus were nominated i think if you listen to what he's saying if you listen to be an emphasis and he's making out a healthy economy and so on i think its very mainstream and write down that center

moderate route that i think can be successful and that's what the polls are suggesting that he's got a good chance to win it or isn't the jacksons drink so inevitably going to have to partially out of the party a bit to the left of such a centrist opposition i mean how can you accommodate want jackson will represent in terms of votes and delegates without bowing somewhat to his agenda which is considerably to the left of sense because we're not going to try to answer that i am confident that reverend jackson among the many things he's thinking about wants a democrat elected president united states i'm not talking for madmen authorized do that he said a few weeks ago and i thought a very poignant the phrase that there were going to be no ashes in atlanta and i think what he was saying was that he was going to unify and mind and help

whoever's nominated women that he wasn't taking himself on the race of the time and that in order to win i think there's got to be some compromises but above all the nominee asked to be true to his own beliefs and his own thoughts in his own direction jury will be credible a moderate candidate was the rationale for super tuesday you were in support of regional primaries that you know that would produce this consensus something like a consensus behind a strong moderate probe southerner candidate what went wrong was that the wrong strategy or the wrong candidate well actually i think what nothing went wrong i think what's happening is where we're finally picking from among an entirely new field of candidates or walter mondale not around anymore the others went around these are all new candidates and i think it takes a while to test to probe to opera asp of a judgment upon these candidates and so what happened in the

southern super today was we really had three are candidates who showed special straight think he took about a third of the south and we had to spend the rest of the time when he went went away it down further i think that's what happened i don't think that proves that these a regional primaries are of ira the improper way to go in fact i would like to see senator dixon's bill passed that would that would have regionalized a contest from here on out you've endured portion going to be easy to beat the democrats this year i don't think we'll assume that all i think he's very vulnerable are in a lot of areas so it is very tough to get our act together we have to speak positively about the future and how are going to deal with those problems we have to demonstrate to americans that were ready to govern and that we can take on the tough problems overseas and that we get the biz to

the wisdom and the vision is required if we do that i think we can beat bush it sounds from what you said earlier we're not ready to make endorsements now that you could be quite comfortable with the dukakis is the nominee is that is a man and i'm out here in the midwest i don't get all subtleties but it's if i have if i decide to support some reality now a place or let's bring the others back in david gergen hat is with porsche now firmly in place is the profile of the ideal democratic candidate now clear you should be i don't mean who it is that i mean for who would be their partners and run against now that that's no longer in doubt well i think it's very clear that democrats need a centrist moderate of the kind that the vice president has spoken about it it's also very clear that it would help the ticket if they went to the south or someone can appeal lasalle for vice president because of that that's your work which is great strength right now

so that that it seems to me that the caucus now appearing as i think rather heavy favorite is it isn't pretty good position at this question we would go for a vice president but i do think that there's an additional question here that are hard by one of withdrawal was present on this and that is in his campaign when he took the nomination he pledged to set the nominee to face up to the issues we need to raise taxes not the course of our country still statements of people push a lot of birds a third bird but the big thing now in this election of course people there's a widespread feeling that the party that their candidates are not speaking to the issues in the way walter mondale did in nineteen eighty four and i'm i'd be very curious to know he thinks the care they should speak out more forthrightly about the issues that face the country where that's been a really important one in the selection or whether it's committing suicide mr lauderdale yeah i i believe despite my experience there and talked about that the nation's crying out for our leading candidates to define spell out in depth their vision of the future

their approach to the central questions at home and abroad and one of the problems with the current process and i don't blame the candidates really is that an almost blanks out that kind of discussion there isn't time the debates have too many people protested at you may get five six minutes apiece was just slow been hearing the week to week contests are such that they're almost on a survival course and they're exhausted and fatigue in and sometimes say things they don't want but what the first victim is the depths and the coherence and in the analysis that our country needs as we face problems that are really more profound more difficult and in many ways more hopeful than we've we've confronted for a long time and i think that's one of the reasons to get this democratic nomination over so that our candidate and mr bush can begin to address these issues in a more basic fundamental way we're not getting

it done now but i'm not sure i blame the candidates the system just doesn't permit and do you agree with vice president david you're going to be the ideal candidate for the democrats is a centrist moderate democrat lauded the principle that i think to me takes someone can communicate with the american people i believe that the people are a little bit further to the left than perhaps has been picked up on that injustice or attacks and that i think a lot of the reagan programs a lot of the reagan position have have been rejected by the people and i don't think we're going to see that until the selection so i my concern is that when the democrats say the center what they really mean is finch over to the right and i don't think the workers average and then the advantage because i think there's a lot of truth the world has said i think we've had eight years of this called social darwinism in our country we had first of all the obliteration of the farm belt in the industrial

belt with the high dollar and there was no appeal or change in course for years we've had the homeless around for years in little or nothing's been done about it we've got a whole generation here that needs to be educated them nervous and going to college and the rest independent many of them are just not getting the help they need and so we've had an icon a lot i think radical theory that dominated our country now that there's no remedy except the market no matter what your problem and i think i make americans are starting to turn and i think jesse jackson has tapped that sentiment and and i agree with her on that i think americans are ready to to address human problems again where the market will take care of it i think what americans are also concerned about and they think the democrats will do that end and i come from that wing of our party where that they worry about with ice is that they think were going to destroy the economy by by making the government today

by raising taxes to live by burdening the economy so we don't have the capital that produces new plan could the nonprofit and competitiveness and the rest and we have to get we have to demonstrate that we know that line exist and it has to be adhered to in order to have the company's to win and in my opinion they're policies and to obtain the policies that can be successful mr shields we've come in on their service point were discussing of as to whether the voters are saying through the primaries they want the democrats to nominate somebody right bang in the center even to the concert inside a bit so that you don't lose what they could gain from the years from possible republican disenchantment or what is what is the message they're sending well it's it's a mixed message robin i think vice presidents actually write that they're jesse jackson and dick gephardt before him tap something very real very fundamental in this country and that is in a sense first of all the americans lost control of its own economic destiny i the tv a

lot of free trade ideologues in the reagan administration who seemed indifferent to be a tremendous infusion and control of foreign capital in this country in major industries we are are are are somehow callers to do anything about it there is a sense that they're we in america have lost their our control their destiny and we can regain it and i think that we regain it by reinvesting in our future which would be a democratic issue by improving our educational system which of the democratic issue but there are fundamental fears about the democrats the texas pen party as a party that has not in the past fully comprehended the danger and threat of the outside world i would add one thing the vice president in nineteen eighty four he had for people under consideration the vice president met henry cisneros be a mayor san antonio dianne feinstein america seven sisko and geraldine ferraro the cars one from queens and he says it shows the fourth person whose first law that he asked for was governor michael

dukakis of massachusetts mr mondello you're ready to head to name one of the four finalists if you're jason mark you're really great thomas in american history the wire that way the pipe is here is there's something wrong with his hearing it is good so let's go back to the situation and go around once more and that's a question of whether to caucus really has the lead that some of you are singing as of the moment let's look again at the head delegate count we did a moment ago and they're when you look at this delegate count our seven hundred and thirty five to seven hundred and sixties and it's still very much a two man race and possibly a three man race s and i i hope i didn't say differently that at this point as those that delegate count points out and no one's opened up a lead of any significance however you've had these recent primaries in wisconsin and in there colorado and connecticut that suggests that maybe the

caucus is beginning to develop a strategy that might do that but he's yet to demonstrate were yet without ariel and i think that's one of the reasons why this new yorker primaries so terribly important four years ago was new york it really ah bob walt put me across the barrier the lobby to be seen as the nominee there's no question that that my victory there it was made all the difference and i think it could well be that for a governor to caucus but you don't have to you're not as your normal sit that way david gergen i think if there was a caucus develop a little more poetry than he's had certain had much of that math is important here jesse jackson a strong candidate has not want any primary of them virginia with wood which has had less than about twenty five percent black vote within the state elizabeth of the size of the bipartisan buy for jessica when

and if you look at the states that are coming up new york with a fourteen percent black and having a nine percent black while ten percent black indiana can serve a state with a percent california a new jersey thirty it's hard to see how he puts that together unless he can restore some momentum and it has to be a new york and i think he goes into new york as nonverbal recall i would agree that he goes to europe as an underdog but the fact of the matter is that it i'd be very interested in here is that the vice president speak to this reverend jackson comes into the states having a very solid base i think to do caucus is the unknown here he was and is not an effective campaigner i would agree at least is improving but jackson has the bass he also has money to caucus is what is running out of matching fight is i couldn't speak at his new miami jackson's always get campaign had a two hundred fifty thousand or a leaflet mailing to the year that was in new york he has raise more money unless this march over two million dollars and he's ever raised i think he's very well

positioned to run through this next string of primaries and these are key factor the matter is maybe does not have those victories but those second places cow he could come out of new york i don't see how you could not be the levy delegate that we're from new york and that's what we're talking about is the delegates and the democrats also locked in on the back end of saying where has the lead well this will be decided by the voters of new york their ideas on april nineteenth the not by us and i had no way of knowing how it's going to come out i see poll so i know that the caucus site was substantially but of course and that will not determine the outcome all white judge on as what i saw in wisconsin where i thought that we saw a new the caucus campaign much more effectively find he's showing himself and finally connecting with the average

working man and woman and that's that's what he needs now i'm not going to take anything away from jesse there he campaigned very well and that's why ai what we're going to see in new york is going to be very arabic architect microphone away from new voters and they can monitor journalist mark shields david gergen political will think you're happy now to a conversation with a distinguished man a broadcast journalist david brinkley he was one of america's first big name big impact anchorman mostly barren a thirty eight year career in the city has a partner willy jeff buckley on the huntley brinkley report that was a nightly news program which among other things ended with a co anchors saying goodnight to each other goodnight chat goodnight david a sign of style still in use elsewhere he now runs abc sunday program this week with david brent david brinkley

has won every award honoree an accolade there is to win in history and he's just added a whole new field a copper writing books washington goes to war is his first book that has just been published a universally ray routines david brinkley well i think they're delighted to be here and mostly what it said there you could easily upset about yourself thank you sir thank you sir why did you decide to write about washington no really good reason to tell you the truth it years ago i wrote a book called reveille in washington by margaret bleach which was a description of the city during the civil war and a few years ago i noticed on my lover's show rally in washington and occurred to me she wrote the book without having been here at the time of the civil war was long before her time at a good demeanor or two i was here so it all and i think that whatever she did i could do both because that's really all there was to get a dramatic have any budgeting and then as you write in the first

person that a third person a straight reporters why why does on this trip report and i wasn't interested in writing an autobiography and telling people a month feelings among her selection painful like yours i don't much care of myself and so i thought if i was going to be a reporter i should report and so that's really what i tried to do i don't wanna talk about myself i am a couple cases in the book you can figure out who it is shared as i but i couldn't think of a way to get into a first person and then back out of the blue collar roots and really know how to do it you say you were a reporter you still see yourself reporting yet still the thing i really claim to know how to do and started as a reporter on a small town newspaper in my hometown covering police and fire and i like it in the nose getting a television doing your own work and the

kind i was doing for a long time i sometimes its reporting in a special sense but not running around town of a moped and talking to people and putting it all down and coming back it's cameras and lights and wires and microphones and technicians so it's a different kind of feel a sense that journalism is not change the basic idea is still the same the technology technology has changed along you and me to do things we could not do in the past before we have satellites and all of that but the basic idea of telling people here is what happened today one too if if we know is what it means to me and more jobs less inflation or one of and let's start with the troop levels to know that the television or in journalism or to chew and i did a lot of people would say that it's become more entertainment is says journalist but it's not the same as mine it can be really

know what is so think about it this way what we have as compared to newspapers what we have is a war history's best circulation the park newspapers have the whole load down in trucks and dumped out and delivered to the door put on the newsstands we take it like a living room bedroom bathroom where i haven't had a tv set instantaneous circulation the year moves as mothers exhaustive we couldn't possibly do with the newspaper's new political as much stuff as they put on we don't have comic strips crossword puzzles and goldfish columns still have in new orleans about i am since i don't belong to do and i'm not reluctant to say and i think what television does with news is very good you really do not have better now than it was when you started the better because the home the technologies but you know when i started and we have a story from say cape town which half or a

lawyer and had to be flown to new york by way of london where it always got lost an airport that cost another day was already a daily and when we got it it was one day it was two days now you've got it and one second batch of the same people in jails they need better words about the same so much better than of our twenty three and apply for a job at nbc are good at heart robin i've said that we couldn't get thousands of what it is that is the improper because of this i think so that is more literate it is more accurate has more well put it is better put together has written better you know here's where the bad grammar and terrible senses as we used to hear on here he said that in trouble writing a vote putting yourself then it is a navy i the pronoun let's talk about that for a lot of people would say to you or to me or anybody in our business and say look it's impossible for you david brinkley to take your opinions

out there which you actually say on the air as woody is it is not possible is it i explain why i think it is so simple that it doesn't even explain if i am savoring outsiders going into snow tomorrow morning until what i think about it though i don't want the same thing is true in politics economics history all the stuff we cover you know if you don't wanna put yourself in it you don't have to there are times when i think for the audiences benefit is helpful to say something of what we might call analysis very pompous word for saying this folks this is what it means that we don't always know but one we know what it means i think is worthwhile to tell them to say again that this means that prices will rise or the president will leave early or something do you think that a reporter who is well well versed in a particular subject issue whatever story has an obligation to express him or herself

is twenty seven has a invitation because if he is extremely well of all the one thing that i say is an expert in soviet american relations and spends the whole time informing himself he therefore should know a good deal more about it than those of those who have to cover everything he has i think there is an invitation from the audience for him to say what is happening that between the soviet union and the united states and what it means as best we can tell for the future what are the implications of sort of that is a special feel i think he owned i would expect him to tell me something on the varsity a listen and yet as you know a lot of people objected that they say that's not what are willing to have a lot of people tell us we're fortunate we don't tell them what their functions are i think we know what our fortunes on we know why she was still

we tell the truth as far as we know occasionally slip usually get something wrong but komen does not whatever you know there's a letter what the region or what former you know resist becoming bosnia we watched those that are long career with your column sunday in which he said that the people in the most vessels are still acting on this kind of holy or the mouth you this week we don't criticize each other we don't hold each other than any kind of standard so we've tweeted we look at the doctors and we jump on doctors were they don't give peer review unknown soldier their people say that with lawyers whatever and yet as far as we're concerned we don't do anything about the people or the actions in our business would give us problems well in most cases here i know the case of the post is that it his job to do that as i was about to appear how often does he appear together sunday sundays and that whatever else you know it's his job and the posters post is

to be congratulated for doing it or having it having an ombudsman to come on and say well last week we said this and that we were all were stupid were careless we should've done and blah blah blah at his job and he does we don't all have an ombudsman and i'm a little doubtful that coming around a week or so later and saying or something we knew no new divided on monday night withdraw helps the same people don't care for them or is the only answer then the yearling what it sees something you're watching you watching something on television television program sometime arabs you know anybody to do it right and you see something that really you think of professional journalist you david ring think that it's a lousy way to operate as a professional you know do anything about that i mean you i don't either but if i see something like that now why is it that we don't do that well if i saw that if i were watching years ago

said that happen more than once in a long while i still watch that would feel i wonder how much those guys really know about what they're talking about why are they more careful about the faction out to somebody else that you would not complain and if somebody called you and said that mr blankley what you think of the job of a sense of where billy bob's mail is going you view which remain silent yes what we are talking about no we don't we don't police are all that is true but we don't have any real mechanism for doing that lawyers dumas so they don't use it much and so do doctors physicians dentists they'll have professional their license to adolescence and people say maybe we should be and that's another question those of professions are licensed and they have the bodies that regulate them and watch over them and the lawyers can lift your license to want to have a recommended in the typical we don't have anything like that and ask me why

i don't know i just all of us should i don't know that you know i get that both ways i don't know what you think will hutton nah i just begun think i've thought about often on just like you know manage and in america make the case both ways believe walter cronkite that was honest program few months ago robin talk to him there now rollins said cronkite said i'm paraphrasing that you could entertain the idea of being present the united states and ted koppel has been quoted as saying yeah i could i would mind in secretary of state ever had dreams your thoughts about going into government know conquered could be probably a pretty good president because he has a very high degree of public confidence would deservedly so the water know myron outrageous your competitor and yet he could be present the sad part of it is that the day he took office everybody would think it was wonderful a year later

after he made a few decisions it's a lot of people didn't like that water would have a few stains on his toga which started with george washington and has never stopped ted koppel us secretary state of old former i'd know because that is his view he specializes in cares about works in foreign relations it doesn't like politics you may have noticed we never put him on a political program or politics doesn't like to talk about is not interesting is he cares about relations with chewing khat switches have enough of the field gave anybody i got a life but you are not interested in and government going and i'm not interested in being a watch at talking about and writing about wouldn't ever ever been interviewing somebody had been a story about somebody and my goodness i could certainly do that in iraq and that's what i think which is never caught

if never not use strontium have no reason of our office i probably wouldn't be able to do much better than he that's because he is also the pressures on inside the private citizen so you work on another book many of them to have an idea for another way to get an idea for one one of them the one that what you've learned about the raucous is you're there when it all began using has happened the technology explain it to bleed well what about what it is why we do it for one of the ridiculous but i don't carry one thing and ari for the front of the once you do that i will never forget that is was so marvelous in the very early days of more about forty eight i think it was i was doing something on the local station here that we are suitable for and people kept calling and saying gosh we were getting a wonderful picture out in bethesda that's a legitimate getting a good picture on television the matter what you said as was a new wonderful mali and i love that

they would record i liked and they give it was a place of view that night again the main stories in the news an israeli girl became the first israeli civilian killed in the palestinian uprising arab hijackers of a kuwaiti jetliner freed some of their captives and victory in wisconsin made michael dukakis the front runner again for the democratic presidential nomination tonight in cairo and we'll sail on eye on july i thank you and goodnight combining everything everything everything funding is also provided by the station and other public television stations and the corporation for public broadcasting

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