The MacNeil/Lehrer Report; 6153; Seaga Interview

li li li li li last june funding for this program has been provided by the station and other public television stations and by grants from exxon corporation the corporation for public broadcasting and at and t and the bell system company it's b

the case be that evening president reagan today received the first foreign leader since his inauguration the new prime minister jamaica edwards iago us officials have begun calling the caribbean the third border of the united states the others are visiting canada and mexico and edward cr that has been called by some our men in the caribbean because reagan officials see in him a swing away from socialism and from too much sympathy for cuba and the soviet union at the white house today was to see and they said that the far east have preoccupied president nixon and africa had been given priority by president carter you hope that the focus of president reagan's foreign policy would be in the caribbean and latin america than mindful of the events that have preoccupied the united states for the past week mr c i get

invited all the return hostages to jamaica for a vacation as the guest of his government tonight prime minister see on there is with jim lehrer in washington from a mistress iraq is almost as new to his job is masciarelli and having won by a landslide october thirtieth five days before mr reagan did the same thing here the victory by jamaican labour party ended eight years of rule by the socialist leaning government headed by michael mandel mr ziad have one in college educated in the united states that held minister a position for ten years and prior pre manly jamaican prime minister welcome sir and through his or any word yet on whether or not any of the hostages and their families are going to take you up on year on iraq where no i don't approve of the word and the other and i think have been stepping in the other families know that it was the hand the hostage situation followed very closely fought for tuna have launched by the jamaican people this weekend a great compassion for

people who are locked in didn't know when they'd get out if they would get out the pharaohs who were uncertain as to their faith and those are generally was i to which the jamaican people responded to have some compassion it's been centers on a as i'm sure you know mr prime minister that this last fourteen and i have lots of amounted to a and as the united states being seen by the rest of the world as an impotent humiliated giant was that the view of this and in jamaica whether there was an element of back in consideration because the united states is always thought of as being such a call from a country that you can do anything with it wishes and really only has to restrain itself or not doing things but this back into focus that then international weapons of diplomacy and there are other considerations which have to be taken into consideration they love the final decision in leadership and

analysis the waiting period was inevitable and why let cause a great deal of anxiety in your country and anxiety filled the world to the people involved and they're less in the long run you came out on top and getting what you wanted do you think your own view that the patience that the united states government to show this was fourteen and a half wants is a virtual wasn't a sign of weakness i think it had to be a virgin because there wasn't anything you could do of all the alternatives have been rouleau i'm in the circumstances you had to exhibit photos of the only alternative and its own with the patients you know they owned was the former deputy secretary of state warren christopher who were negotiated if the final agreement with iran has said that the united states should honor that agreement with iran because if we do not

it could possibly discredit future agreements or rightness that we might might have with other nations of the world any particular said the third world is he right about that he read about it there's no question about the fact that international agreements should be sacrosanct and while it is true that the hostages were held against international agreements nevertheless contraception the united states which is in a leadership position and which will be involved in a multitude of international agreements spent isn't a different role a from a country like iran which may or may not break international units because they don't have a leadership position that leadership position and rich unity state stands makes it necessary for it to honor its international obligations and to make use of the insecticide do our prime minister do you expect a big change in the way the united states under mr reagan treats the caribbean her area and central

america well louis are reading into the reagan administration a deeper interests in the caribbean and central america and the us wants it was in the post election period that preceded they inauguration when we had discussions with the transition team and a detective that there was a genuine and deep interest in the affairs of the caribbean and central america more than the previous administration's interests and the previous administration had begun to show that interests in the last phase of its period of office when it would've gone on and continued there that interests and developed on it i don't know but i would say that the reagan administration certainly has begun with a very deep interest and therefore has plenty of room for expanding on that set the new secretary of state alexander haig said at his first news conference this afternoon that soviet risk taking through cuban proxies in latin america and africa was a subject of

utmost concern to the reagan administration is that soviet risk taking through cuban proxies to use these words in your area of the world of concern to you well there's no question about the revolt against human expansion isn't in the caribbean resort you were playing their own as a proxy of the soviet union in infiltrating the political systems of the english speaking caribbean you must remember that a good deal of the caribbean is not involved in military that governments and therefore what is involved there is infiltration of political assistance we saw kubo going to a situation off and jj shown up the political systems and sending in its own boxes into the political parties of the caribbean region how much risk is there a cuban influence on it not for cuban influence actually taking

over one by one countries in the caribbean and central america what went in this last year when the caribbean countries in the series of elections made their own unilateral decisions that they were going to follow their own politically and they salute constituted a revolt against the left there when the marin danger because one by one there were signs off an interest in the cuban model of development the cuban strategy and this is beginning to gain some grown in some of the most basic political parties when it came to the acid test of an election or the caribbean people one by one rejected that system since then they cuban interests in the area have definitely been put in the background and the way that the soviet influence to think that risk is diminished so much that the united states need not be preoccupied by it but with

all of the cubans are only standing in the wings we're waiting to see now what happens after the caribbean people by themselves are taking their political decisions the cubans are now waiting to see whether the political will is being translated into economic betterment if it is translated into economic betterment by which the end of the living are increased which is that i think the bottom line test of the success or failure of a new development strategy then and they would receive a further setback if it is not in this fun place to be able to make gains from the system once stan poised to follow up and why what would be the next step well it in english speaking caribbean of a giant have to refer to which goes it's me it involves more than two thirds of the caribbean they're still poised in terms of their contacts with a mass base parties even though there'd been rejected because these mass base but this can make a come back to a certain

extent <unk> jamaica's an example of that right now and those ties are still there and alive and well this city they're in and that there is no indication that they have on huge the ties that they have with the radical left when mr reagan said at this luncheon created a quote we are and relaxed about the situation and the caribbean on about the outside influences that another word which are saying he should stay and relaxed right now though he sits still like solution with that the president also went on to say this in fact the very next life after that was the united states will continue to support peaceful change was at me what do that mean the use it in their presence at that how you interpret what that possibly that was i referenced throughout central america where they ate absence of democratic regimes leaves open

a door for the development of the temperatures you know how does a democratic regime emerge from a military dictatorship how does it emerge from that autocratic right or the dictatorial less peaceful change obviously is the most desired mother and to that extent central america is a testing ground for democratic principles and the extent to which the democratic system can win although the extremes of the right and then but of course there's palin no one in the world who would say they're in for a peaceful change i mean that that is really a mother type apple pie another type thing how does the united states industry and his administration follow up on how you go about encouraging peaceful change in your part of the world how the united states still has to be done on a case by case basis there is no form in that instance where there is in power moderate institution a moderate glass vase

institutions such as the politico which is dedicated to the restoration of an electoral system and the process of democracy than one of course give support for that particular institution and by giving its support hopes that it can make its way through the maze of extremists of the right and the left for the forefront and in acceptance from the people support even groups that are our power against a day a sitting government well a lot depends upon the position in the individualistic is it in a condition of turmoil in which the government and all is on the threat or is it a situation in which there is no existing threat to the government and how do you then go out to find a moderate grouping and then try to encourage as a threat against the government i would think it's a question of degree and obviously there is no hard and fast line

that can be let down in terms of how you support a given case well as take your cases specifically added that the united states government support you in the election in his best managers aren't know you see no support whatsoever from an extensive sure they have if they thought you were had a good idea and that he would make a better prime minister should the united states have involved itself in anyone indirectly or directly that election no it was not necessary largely because we are already conduct a peaceful change the caribbean is an area off thirty two countries of which twenty eight of proving themselves capable of peaceful change by the ballot system year after year in fact accused the thirtieth of the last grenade and so none of this is that the greatest year in the entire world all forty mccourt peaceful change or changed by the democratic process there's no need for anybody to interfere or to become involved in that system because the people have a system by which they can determine their own with

the typically and volunteer prime minister you've proposed a kind of marshall plan for the caribbean and central america does that mean you regard this as a kind of new competition ground in the cold war for us of a new phase in the cold war no what i'm considering is of having made a political decision for moderation in the caribbean the next the past to be taking and taking rapidly and that is the economic benefits that will flow from the politicos this thing which has been developed all which has been reaffirmed that by the people not to do so means greater flows off financial assistance is can come into his private flaws some punches out in the clubs all private investment and there are public flaws that all countries need because they're required for public infrastructure in the case of public flaws within the

region already the governments of venezuela mexico trinidad and tobago have already put up eight hundred million dollars in terms of long term credits by way off thirty percent credit on that way because of the number of countries in the region now if that amount was matched by external conscious it would mean an additional one point six billion dollars of public flaws to the countries of the region and this would be exactly double what is now the top of fickle public clothes meaning that he would be able to increase by one hundred percent the amount of public investment in that in the region and this is considered to be the basis on which the type of infrastructure development can take place to give these countries then you lived having made the political decision themselves for moderation well is this what you've been telling now the president and the

congressional leaders use are in washington today and their aides that unless there is a very large concert an increase in that kind of flow economic flow to these countries of the caribbean so that they can raise their standards of living then we stand in the back of the stage you described earlier when they may be right for me the cubans in the end the soviets so in that sense is it not kind of cold war situation the marshall plan after all were set up in the second world war to prevent western europe from an anti western her recover and offset the threat from these prison but there's a tendency in the case of this country in particular to view everything in terms of east and west and you're either with east or you're with the west and the strategies i the part of the eastern strategy or a part of the western strategy we don't do things that they do things in terms of whether in our own region our own where we can make a go of it and in doing so how do we take our decisions we made all political decisions what we need

now is assistance to take the economic development strategy to a point of that the standards of living that has little to do it all a consideration when the far removed problems of the cold war it has much more to do with standards of living for the people see i just wondered how jamaica power which has established quite an important leadership role in the third or non aligned world would be able to keep those credentials and yet talk in terms of the need for a kind of infusion of marshall plan type a pivotal area to offset the danger of becoming a journalist too well jamaica and many other countries like jamaica off part of a large bloc of countries in the third world that are in what we call a mid level starter of development and other monkeys develop and the second not alone bills that they're about to kick off economically at that meta level there is a need for an infusion in order to

help them up the ladder to the point of pickle that those are the very conscious that are likely to be forgotten we're not developed enough to draw he did withdraw investment without special move a direction in the pews and they're not only developed enough to drop a bit with a special attention of the dawn of punches within back mid level and we have to make our own special grown the mafia and the special role of the eu have been consistent with the world's refugees dave external floors that much more from though no punches kept on exporting countries to the less the metaphor are you comfortable with this business was going around the verb in our man in the caribbean the united states man and the caribbean jamaica cut uncomfortable i'm uncomfortable at anybody's mind because we are nobody's mean i think these the journalistic issues that i've become accustomed to the fact that journalists would want to find attractive in someone and to certain extent the journalistic

profession appears to be incest just wants to try to support my one journalist is a fifth of what the next song by an excellent question we are their own decision our own militia undecided on loan balances the moral political system all economic system it happens to coincide with that on the united states if the clothes by a similar process he will come to the same decisions there's a commonality of interests of that doesn't make us ida subservient us if you do you in your decision making process that leaves are free to make our own decisions of the desire does this survey you foresee year this journalistic label as you call it to become a problem for you down the line if it doesn't get some other vowels doesn't come along and remove it for you i think we have the removal of the us that how do you go about removing a minute is in the land and i look through a stack of old both campaigns today about two before the election after the election and rewrite

every one of those stories that with maybe a few exceptions referred to you as quote our man in the caribbean well i've never seen that particular cliche are hearing it for the first time what i have seen is that i have advocated closer ties with the west and this is pure logic economic logic we in jamaica and nine hundred miles offshore the world's richest market know if we have to develop and export growth of the month because you must earn more in foreign exchange to survive and for growth and where do you like sport what to the world's richest market and the world's richest market which was nine hundred miles away at your foreign policy therefore must be consistent with generating markets weaving the market for your export commodities that means closer ties with the west what it means is closer ties with the world's richest market for the

purpose of developing great the financial and trading floors for the benefit of our country how much influence that india cubans on through the cubans of the soviets or begun to exert in the operation of jamaica under the prior manly rashly they started a good deal of influence in a tactical and strategic way they were participants in a political strategy making though of the disciplines in the training what part of the security forces which sure setup was an espionage type system political espionage texas thin jamaicans or sand took you both to be trained in marxist leninist brigades and comfortably so when they return that they didn't hide that knowledge and all of these things you were the cubans and the former regime in jamaica together not just on the government to government basis but on the pocket a party base is a political system that doesn't

apply so much so that they stop and then he gets to the cuban communist party at the time of their annual conferences and be possessed a lot of the time of their annual conferences or have you done some shoe control of the first to change that relationship with cuba well the first thing that he had to do was to in egypt the oss for a recall of the present you when a massive it was objectionable since then they cuban programmers are being gradually phased out and the cuban establishment of the embassy ever is being gradually reduced we have not in any way interfere with our diplomatic relations between the two countries because we believe that that is a last resort in diplomatic or an issue that there is still a rule for a government to government basis of cooperation between the two governments

not the one which involves the political systems of the two countries mr prime minister you our negotiating as we understand for new loans from the international monetary fund your predecessor mr manly found it i found himself unable to accept some of their conditions are you going to be able to accept those conditions when he couldn't for instance a very significant cutting government expenditures understand in the case of this the manly the conditions which they phoned in boston the jokes that came at the end of the line they had had previous loans negotiated with the imf they had faith in the performance criteria that were set up to judgment though they were making the grade or not and as it is in any backlog of them or you fail the stiffer the terms get the next round and they had reached a stage where the imf had become pretty tough because they were dealing with the government but obviously was not able to restore growth which was the paramount objective of the imf and i'll

get their starting with a good track record when we were last in office in the nineteen sixties he produced an average annual rate of growth of six percent around and in return he added tart balance of payment reserves i knew that you're able to contain inflation you're a vote to finance all budgets without resorting to the printing of money i have a boring all foreign exchange that was service by only four percent of our foreign exchange receipts a present fifty percent of our foreign exchange receipts have to be used to service all foreign exchange that all of these things would naturally lead a bank a negotiating with you to say well you know you're the kind of glad because before minute you start with a good deal of confidence in the momentum going for you there for that just talk to you on a different mission but is the hair world is very different than it was in the nineteen sixties for jamaica

you're terribly vulnerable to the ever rising price of the energy in the sport important informal well how we read and i believe something like forty cents of any of every dollar goes to that limit expenditure goes to that how are you going to be able to alert to reap economic miracles when you're faced with the same realities in that sense the instrument it was first of all was the man it was a really faced with the problem of that time it would become a problem in the future because of the same pen that there was a dramatic increase in the price of oil which cost four hundred and ninety nine point five million dollars between nineteen seventy four and nineteen eighty is the man there is the bauxite levee which earned nine hundred and ninety nine million dollars the team that same period we therefore have earned edition of foreign exchange drew more than call the price of oil that was involved in a dramatic escalation but that is all the more reason why we have to seek a new export trust as a means of learning new foreign exchange and that is

all the more reason why we must look to those wealthiest country and it was like this for the fix for threats and that is all the more reason why our policies are based upon a direction looking towards about market for the development of new foreign exchange we are just our own little time left a few seconds left was the most encouraging thing you heard in washington today well we got a very warm reception will not about going to tune into specifics we have to bear in mind of the new regime is only an office some six or seven days continue the dialogue that began before the inauguration and a few confident that there is greed good will on the side of this government to make that dialogue continue in a sense that will materialize with practical programmes second deal of assistance of the country reporter richard berner says even so says that so for women are tomorrow on the

jackass ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha so the station soundbite of graduation in the play you are only

men named