The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

JIM LEHRER: Good evening. I'm Jim Lehrer. On the NewsHour tonight: Our summary of the news; then, excerpts from today's funeral for Pope John Paul II, with some final thoughts about his impact; a report on San Francisco's new approach to the homeless; and the analysis of David Brooks and Harold Meyerson, substituting for Mark Shields.

NEWS SUMMARY

JIM LEHRER: Pope John Paul II was laid to rest today at the Vatican. The funeral Mass took place in Saint Peter's Square. Leaders from around the world joined some 300,000 others there for the ceremony. Millions more watched on giant video screens across Rome. The dean of the College of Cardinals, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, told the crowd: "Our hearts are full of sadness, yet at the same time of joyful hope and profound gratitude." The homily was interrupted by applause and chants from the crowd to elevate John Paul to sainthood. After the mass, the pope was entombed in a closed service beneath St. Peter's Basilica. Around the world, millions of people watched the funeral on television. We have a report on the global reaction narrated by Jon Snow of Independent Television News.

JON SNOW: In Iraq, embattled Christians gathered for a special service in the northern city of Kirkuk. Thousands attended in prayer, Christians alongside Muslims. Pope John Paul II strongly opposed the U.S. Invasion of Iraq. (Singing) In Africa, Catholicism's fastest-growing population shared in the global ceremony. Here in Kenya, worshippers watched the service on screens hung around Churches across Nairobi. And in the small hours of the morning in Mexico, the faithful filled up the city's plaza Basilica of Guadalupe, mariachi singers playing songs of farewell in honor of the pope, as his absence was symbolized by an empty chair. The pope visited Mexico five times during his papacy. And in Asia, 25,000 Filipinos gathered at a seaside park in manila to bid farewell. People stood and watched the funeral service live on large plasma screens. It was in this very place that Pope John Paul II stood ten years ago. It was nighttime in Australia, but still the crowds turned out around the country; in Sydney, mourners filling up Saint Mary's Cathedral. And in Paris, worshippers flocked to Notre Dame to witness this historical service. Organizers were forced to close the doors as worshippers flooded the cathedral to full capacity. Those who could not get inside simply watched the funeral from under their umbrellas outside.

JIM LEHRER: The Church now enters an official mourning period. The College of Cardinals convenes on April 18 to elect a new pope. We'll have more on the events of this day and John Paul's legacy right after the News Summary. In Iraq today, an explosion in Baghdad killed four children. They apparently triggered a roadside bomb. And the U.S. Military said a U.S. Marine was killed Wednesday in a vehicle accident in Fallujah. In all, 11 U.S. troops have died in Iraq this month. More than 1,500 Americans have been killed since the war began. Well over 11,600 have been wounded. An American tourist died today of wounds from yesterday's bombing in Cairo, Egypt. The attack also killed a French woman and wounded eighteen people, including three more Americans. It happened in a bazaar popular with foreigners. Police said a man carried the bomb on a motorcycle and that it went off prematurely. A previously unknown Islamic group claimed responsibility. The man accused of bombing the Olympic Games in Atlanta agreed today to plead guilty. The U.S. Justice Department announced Eric Rudolph also admitted bombing two abortion clinics and a nightclub. The attack on the 1996 Olympics killed one person and injured more than 100. Another person died in one of the clinic bombings in 1998. Rudolph will get life in prison instead of a possible death sentence. A North Carolina man was given nine years in prison today for sending junk e-mails. It was the nation's first felony case against illegal spamming. Jeremy Jaynes was convicted in Virginia of peddling sham products online. Prosecutors said his operation grossed up to $750,000 a month. U.S. postal rates may be going up. The Postal Service today asked for an increase of 5.4 percent across the board beginning next year. The cost of a first-class stamp would go up two cents to 39 cents. The agency said it needs the increase to fill a newly mandated escrow fund. The independent Postal Rate Commission makes the final decision. Crude oil prices fell for the fifth day in a row. The price in New York trading finished at $53.32 a barrel. That's down nearly five dollars for the week. Falling energy stocks helped end a four-day rally on Wall Street, the Dow Jones Industrial Average lost nearly 85 points to close at 10,461. The NASDAQ fell 19 points to close at 1999. But for the week, the Dow gained half percent. The NASDAQ rose 0.7 percent. And that's it for the News Summary tonight. Now it's on to the funeral and some last thoughts about Pope John Paul II; homeless in San Francisco; and Brooks and Meyerson.

FOCUS - POPE JOHN PAUL II - 1920-2005

JIM LEHRER: The funeral for Pope John Paul II. Ray Suarez has our report.

RAY SUAREZ: The open-air funeral in St. Peter's Square was one of the largest religious gatherings in modern times. Just after at 10:00 this morning in Rome, the Sistine Chapel choir sang the Gregorian chant "Grant him eternal rest, o Lord." Twelve pallbearers, laypeople who are members of old Roman families, emerged from the Basilica's red curtains carrying the bishop of Rome's casket. (Singing) (applause) The cypress wood coffin was emblazoned with a cross and the letter "m," chosen by John Paul for Jesus' mother, Mary. He also asked that the coffin be set on the ground. A gospel was placed on top. (Choir singing) The public Mass was preceded by a private ceremony inside the Basilica. There a white silk veil was placed over the pope's face and the casket was sealed. (Speaking in Latin) (singing) German Cardinal Josef Ratzinger, dean of the College of Cardinals, presided over the two and a half hour traditional Mass, the same Mass said at any Catholic's funeral.

CARDINAL JOSEF RATZINGER (Translated): Oh, God, Father, and Pastor of humanity, look at Your family gathered here in prayer and grant your servant and our pope, John Paul II, who in the love of Christ led your Church, to share with the flock entrusted to him the reward promised to the faithful ministers of the gospel.

RAY SUAREZ: 164 of the Roman Catholic Church's 183 cardinals and patriarchs of the Eastern Rite Churches donned red vestments for the Mass. (Singing) Also in attendance, leaders of the world's major religions, as well as presidents, prime ministers, kings and queens, dignitaries and common people from around the world. It was the first time an American president had attended a papal funeral. President Bush was there, as were his father and former President Clinton. The first reading was from the Acts of the Apostles, and was in Spanish. Known as Peter's speech, it quotes Saint Peter saying "God shows no partiality among nations."

WOMAN ( Translated): In those days, Peter addressed the truth. I have now come to realize, he said, God does not have favorites but anybody of any nationality who fears God and does what is right is acceptable to him. It is true that God sent his word to the people of Israel, and it was to them that the good news of peace was brought by Jesus Christ, that Jesus Christ is Lord of all men.

RAY SUAREZ: The Latin chant of a familiar psalm followed.

SINGING ( Translated ): The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures.

RAY SUAREZ: An American seminarian from Alabama read the only part of the Mass in English.

JOHN McDONALD: As you well know, we have our citizenship in heaven. It is from there that we eagerly await the coming of our savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. He will give a new form to this lowly body of ours and remake it according to the pattern of His glorified body by his power to subject everything to himself. For these reasons, my brothers, you whom I so love and long for, you are who are my joy and my crown continue my dear ones to stand firm in the Lord.

RAY SUAREZ: The gospel chosen for this Mass was a passage from John. In it, Jesus asks his disciple Peter if he loves him and will follow him. In his homily, Cardinal Ratzinger reflected on the scripture and John Paul's life.

CARDINAL JOSEF RATZINGER: (Translated): "Follow me": Karol Wojtyla accepted the appointment, for he heard in the Church's call the voice of Christ. And then he realized how true are the Lord's words: "For those who try to make their life secure will lose it, but those who lose their life will keep it." Our pope -- and we all know this -- never wanted to make his own life secure, to keep it for himself. He wanted to give of himself unreservedly to the very last moment, for Christ, and thus also for us. (Applause) None of us can ever forget how in that last Easter Sunday of his life, the Holy Father, marked by suffering, came once more to the window of the apostolic palace and one last time gave his blessing, urbi et orbi. We can be sure that our beloved pope is standing today at the window of the Father's house, that he sees us and blesses us. Yes, bless us, Holy Father. We entrust your dear soul to the mother of God, your mother, who guided you each day and who will guide you now to the eternal glory of her son, our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen. (Applause)

RAY SUAREZ: The homily-- indeed, the entire Mass-- was interrupted many times by applause. Not often heard in American Churches, applause commonly punctuates the ceremonies in St. Peter's Square. Prayers were offered in many languages, reflecting both the global reach of John Paul, the most-traveled pope in history, and the diversity of his Church. (Prayers in various languages -- singing)

RAY SUAREZ: Before offering communion, the cardinal asked the congregation to exchange a sign of peace, usually a handshake. It's an ancient ritual, once abandoned by the Church and then brought back as part of the reforms of Vatican II. (singing)

RAY SUAREZ: During communion, more than 300 priests fanned out to offer the bread to the masses in the square. (Applause) As the Mass closed, the crowd erupted in applause again for nearly five minutes. They chanted "Santo," Italian for "Saint," and held up signs reading "Santo Subito," Italian for "Saint Immediately," calling for the canonization of John Paul. (Singing) During his reign, this pope named 483 saints, more than any other pope in history. Cardinal Ratzinger sprayed the coffin with holy water and incense. Then, the pallbearers lifted John Paul one last time for the crowd to see. (Applause) Then, the body of John Paul II, the first non-Italian pope in 500 years, was brought back inside St. Peter's Basilica for a private burial. (Applause) This afternoon, the Vatican released photographs of that ceremony, showing the cypress coffin placed inside a second casket of zinc, which was soldered shut, and then within a third made of walnut. That was then lowered into the earth at 2:20 local time. Vatican rules call for nine days of mourning. Then the College of Cardinals will meet in secret to elect a new pope.

RAY SUAREZ: Now three perspectives on today's ceremonies and the life and legacy of John Paul II. Chester Gillis is a professor and chair of the Department of Theology at Georgetown University; he is author of "Roman Catholicism in America." John-Peter Pham is an assistant professor of justice studies at James Madison University and author of "Heirs of the Fisherman, Behind the Scenes of Papal Death and Succession." And Timothy Garton Ash is director of the European Studies Center at St. Anthony's College at Oxford University and author of "The Polish Revolution: Solidarity."

Professor Pham, when Paul VI died, it was said to be the largest papal funeral ever and about 100,000 people were there. Now we're talking about a funeral throng in the millions. What happened?

JOHN-PETER PHAM: Well, a number of things happened. Certainly our world has changed a great deal. Travel is much easier; communications have rendered distances far closer. And part of it also is testimony to the late Pope John Paul II. While Paul VI was very much, In many senses, the first truly modern pope, the first to travel abroad in two centuries, the first to travel outside Europe, in many respects Pope John Paul II building on those foundations, expanded them in horizons that were unimaginable just two decades ago. So it's a tribute to what he has accomplished as well.

RAY SUAREZ: Professor Gillis, how do you mark the change in this pontificate by what we saw today in St. Peter's Square?

CHESTER GILLIS: Well, it was such an extraordinary outpouring of affection and from such a wide base, not only Catholics but world leaders, ordinary people, non-Catholics, people watching around the world in countries that are not traditionally Catholic. The kind of reach this pope had and the effect that he had on the populous is remarkable and unprecedented, I would say, in the public character of the papacy.

RAY SUAREZ: Professor Garton Ash, you've written how this pope was important not only to Catholics but non-Catholics. Explain that to me.

TIMOTHY GARTON ASH: I would say... you know, we talk about world leaders, President Bush or Prime Minister Blair. I would say that Pope John Paul II was the first true world leader. He was the first man in history who not only aspired to speak for every individual human being on earth, but who also reached most of them through the modern mass media. So there's never been anything like this papacy in world history.

RAY SUAREZ: But in a way that's qualitatively different from some of the other known people of the age, different from Princess Diana? How so?

TIMOTHY GARTON ASH: Absolutely, without thought. Princess Diana, good Lord, heaven's above, I mean, she was a national figure and like an international pop star. But this was like a pope who spoke for not just one billion Catholics but for the God-given human rights of everyone on every continent. And he went to all those continents and he demanded those human rights from the dictators, from the regimes, capitalist, communist, or fascist. No one has ever done that in history. I have no doubt that we've just witnessed today the funeral of the greatest man of our time.

RAY SUAREZ: Professor Gillis, one of the greatest men of our time?

CHESTER GILLIS: I would have to say certainly one of the greatest men of our time. I think it might be a little bit early to completely solidify his legacy. I think we'll have to give history a little time for it to settle. I know there are many who are calling for him immediately to be a saint and I anticipate he probably will be a saint; it may be fast tracked by the Church. And clearly he's one of the greatest leaders of the 20th and 21st Century. What his legacy will be, though, in five years or ten years or twenty years we'll have to see. But clearly it's remarkable and it is something that will leave its mark on history. I think Professor Garton Ash is absolutely correct.

RAY SUAREZ: But Professor Garton Ash also gave as examples calls for respect for human rights, asserting and alleging the dignity and rights of every human being. But did that message stick? Did it have more than an impact but an actual effect?

CHESTER GILLIS: Well, in some places it did. I mean, with the demise of communism, I think he contributed to that clearly. But on his moral teachings, did everyone... was everyone in accord with his moral teachings? Did he change the character of Western Europe, for example, which is highly secularized? No, he didn't. From his point of view I suppose he might say, like Mother Teresa "God did not call me to be successful. God called me to be faithful." And he was faithful to the message of Jesus Christ right until the end. But the efficacy of that, as far as widespread adherence to it is another thing. Statistics indicate in many places people did not follow his teachings completely.

RAY SUAREZ: Professor Pham, how do you gauge that tension between celebrity and impact?

JOHN-PETER PHAM: I agree with both my colleagues. John Paul II leaves behind a tremendous legacy, but as Professor Gillis has pointed out, the Church has always in Her wisdom required time to fully assess, to fully digest and absorb a legacy. While it's completely understandable in the emotion, the outpouring which we witnessed today very spontaneous and sincere a desire to elevate Pope John Paul to the status of greatness, indeed of sanctity, in the Catholic Church, we believe sanctity, official canonization is really a declaration that someone is already enjoy the beatific vision, is with God. And if one believes that John Paul is already with God, he doesn't need our earthly acclaim. Rather, I think he would - it is left for the Church and for the pilgrim people of God desire that nothing be done in undue haste and that time and history be allowed to unfold in their own pace.

RAY SUAREZ: Professor Pham, you've written about the Catholic Church over very long time horizons. Is the pope a different figure, in some ways a more important figure now that he doesn't have a country to run than when he did?

JOHN-PETER PHAM: I think very much so. One of the great graces, if you will, that the papacy has received over the years is the destitution of its temporal holdings, which for centuries made the pope a little more than a petty prince-ling in Italy, another person biting at the heels of the great powers. Instead, with the loss of those temporal doe minions, the papacy first under Leo XIII and many of his successors has the a moral institution that is capable of speaking for the weak, the oppressed, the marginalized, those who do not have a voice at the tables of power.

RAY SUAREZ: Professor Garton Ash, no longer a temporal governor but someone that you've said has tremendous power and influence in Eastern Europe, for instance?

TIMOTHY GARTON ASH: Well, for someone who only had spiritual authority, the political impact was enormous. I think that there's no question that without this pope no solidarity movement in Poland. And without the solidarity movement in Poland, no Gorbachev in the form we saw him in 1985; no velvet revolutions in 1989. So I think there is a direct connection between this pope, the end of communism, the end of the Cold War. What we saw today was actually a kind of celebration of European unity. This is the first time in history that people from every corner of the continent when they heard the pope died could just take their passport out of the drawer, Google a cheap airfare and fly to Rome. That was an extraordinary event and it was partly a testament to his legacy. On the other hand, he also leaves a Europe which is more secular than it has ever been before. I mean, Europe now is a most secular continent on earth. So I think there is a deep irony in this pope's legacy. This is, in a sense, the first time Christian Rome has been at the heart of a united Europe. But it may also be the last time because the mass of the believers are increasingly outside Europe.

RAY SUAREZ: Does thatparadox, Professor Gillis, also extend out to the rest of the Western world? To Australia, Canada, the United States?

CHESTER GILLIS: It does reflect to the developed world very much. The United States is much more Church attending and faith informal a sense than Western Europe. It's not nearly as secularized. And American Catholics go to Church at a much higher rate than European Catholics do. The question is: will European Catholics move toward the European model or stay independent of that and stay faithful to it? And it's a great tension. While American Catholics, for example, revere this pope and admired him and I think really loved him and I think rightfully so, they didn't necessarily listen to him. And it was a great... today was a wonderful event. But tomorrow people will go back to their ordinary lives and in some places, like Western Europe, the Churches will be empty. Just as the professor has just said, they came out for this event but for a lot of reasons, because they thought he was a saint, but he unified Europe and all, not necessarily because they all agreed with his teachings and his policies.

RAY SUAREZ: Professor Pham, take us forward, as Professor Gillis suggests, to the work that awaits the conclave and the Church that is now left behind by this pope. Has Pope John Paul II grown the job, transformed it in a way that's going to make it tough on whoever takes the job next?

JOHN-PETER PHAM: Well, inevitably any pope will be compared against his predecessor. But one has to realize the genius, if you will, of the human institution of the papacy is that it has reinvented itself in each of Peter's successors. And inevitably the next pope will leave his own mark on the papacy. He will build upon the legacy of Pope John Paul II just as pope John Paul has built upon the legacy of John Paul I and, of course, Paul VI and John XXIII. The next pope, ultimately, will be a true pontiff in the original sense of the word. His calling, the Roman term pontifex, bridge builder, is the next successor of Peter. To build bridges within the Catholic Church between those who feel themselves marginalized with the Catholic Church and those outside; bridges between the developed world and the developing world; between the global South and richer countries. And so in a sense, the word "pontiff," the title Roman pontiff will take on an even greater meaning not just as a mere ceremonial title but in a way a job requirement for Pope John Paul's successor.

RAY SUAREZ: But can a very spiritual person, a scholar, a prayerful but retiring person adequately take over from a job of... the job from a man who's made it into a media, high impact international job?

JOHN-PETER PHAM: Well, I think there are different styles of papacy. And I think it's an error to try to take what we know and demand that the next man... that the next era of the Church be exactly the same. And as Christians believe that the spirit blows where he will, in the unfolding of history ultimately the Church's call is to respond to the needs of the time. The Second Vatican Council in the Pastoral Constitution of the Church, Gaudium et Spes, says that the joys and the hopes, the anxieties of mankind, all those together are the joys and hopes and anxieties and concerns of the Church. And that will change with each passing day.

RAY SUAREZ: Professor Garton Ash, you spoke of a now secular Europe. Which way for the Church in Europe now with the next pope?

TIMOTHY GARTON ASH: Well, I think there are two very interesting questions here: One is whether the next pope may indeed not be a European given that the majority of Catholics are now outside Europe. And I myself feel that that would be a logical and a bold step for the Catholic Church to take. The second point is that for Europe, an absolutely crucial question is the relationship with Islam because we will have a growing number of Muslims inside Europe. And here someone else talked of building bridges. One thing Pope John Paul II did magnificently was to start building bridges to the other great world religions, notably to Judaism but also to Islam and the presence of the rabbis and the imams at the funeral was very striking and very moving. And I think for us in Europe, the question of how the Catholic Church reaches out, particularly in the dialogue with Islam will be of crucial importance to the stability and in fact the future peace of our societies.

RAY SUAREZ: Professor Garton Ash, Professors Pham and Gillis, thank you all.

JIM LEHRER: Still to come on the NewsHour tonight: A homeless story, and Brooks and Meyerson.

FOCUS - CARE NOT CASH

JIM LEHRER: A new approach to homelessness. Spencer Michels reports from San Francisco.

SPOKESMAN: Thank you, mayor.

SPOKESMAN: You take care. Thank you.

SPENCER MICHELS: Gavin Newsom, San Francisco's mayor for just over a year, has gotten to know plenty of the homeless who loiter on the streets near city hall and around a nearby farmers market. Newsom has made ending homelessness a priority in a city where one out of every 87 residents is homeless. He says it's the highest-per- capita homeless population in the country. On a recent walk with us, Newsom said the problem is much better than it used to be.

MAYOR GAVIN NEWSOM: Literally three months ago you would have seen 40, 50 shopping carts, encampments right in here. The library had been taken over the last three years completely by homeless and transients.

SPENCER MICHELS: To change that, in May of 2004, Newsom implemented a plan he said would end chronic homelessness in ten years. It reduces welfare payments for the homeless by 86 percent and uses the savings to pay for housing and increased services. Called care not cash, he made it part of his campaign with TV spots like this.

AD SPOKESMAN: I took your cash and I bought drugs.

AD SPOKESMAN: Crack.

AD SPOKESMAN: Heroin.

AD SPOKESMAN: What I needed was care, not cash.

SPENCER MICHELS: Welfare payments for single homeless people have been cut from $410 a month, one of the highest in the nation, to just $59. The money saved, totaling $14 million, pays for leasing hotels.

SPOKESPERSON: And I can give you a referral for a vacancy to go tomorrow.

SPENCER MICHELS: It also provides care in the form of services like counseling.

SPOKESPERSON: If you have any questions for me.

MAYOR GAVIN NEWSOM: If the idea is we are going to buy our way out of being responsible by just handing you a check and saying "good luck," that's outrageous. There's no care there. The fact is with care not cash, you are guaranteed services before the cash grant is cut.

SPENCER MICHELS: Newsom pointed to the tenderloin: A poor, crime- ridden section of San Francisco where 12 formerly decrepit hotels have been leased by the city, upgraded using welfare funds, and now house 1,000 formerly homeless people. Newsom's plan follows years of frustration. Under pressure from businesses and residents, a series of mayors tried various approaches to reducing or hiding chronic homelessness, including police actions to keep the homeless out of parks and out of sight. Shelters were opened with high hopes, but clients saidthey were dangerous. People with substance abuse or mental problems could spend a few nights in shelters, but they were expected to be clean and sober before even being considered for permanent housing.

MAYOR GAVIN NEWSOM: The worst thing we've done in this country is warehouse people in temporary spaces permanently.

SPENCER MICHELS: Many of the chronic homeless on the streets, like Alan Lewis, who's been homeless 22 years, didn't trust officials, shelters or hotels.

ALAN LEWIS: Are we gonna live in a raggedy hotel with bugs and spiders in it? They came to me and asked me why I refused to stay in a shelter. It's just like I said before, there are nasty people in there, totally disrespect. You know what I'm saying? And you never know who you're sleeping next to.

SPENCER MICHELS: Nothing seemed to work, according to Philip Mangano, a top homeless official in the Bush administration.

PHILIP MANGANO: The irony in San Francisco for years was that they had some of the most innovative and creative ideas on homelessness in the country, and they also had the most visible and the most disgraceful issue of street homelessness in the country existing side by side.

SPENCER MICHELS: But today Newsom says Care Not Cash is working. He cited a new overnight survey showing a 28 percent decline in the total homeless population from two years ago and a 41 percent drop in homeless on the streets.

MAYOR GAVIN NEWSOM: Every year it showed an increase. This year it miraculously showed a decrease. We have a reduction in our street population, reduction in panhandling.

MAN: I'm stressed out. There's drugs out here. I'm a victim and I don't like it.

SPOKESMAN: Are you on the wait list for the housing?

MAN: Yes, sir.

SPENCER MICHELS: Newsom has made it city policy to provide permanent housing, with supportive services for chronically homeless people first, and deal with their mental health or substance abuse problems later. And that directly benefited 35- year-old Steven Devald, who moved to San Francisco from Colorado and who is schizophrenic.

STEVEN DEVALD: About seven years that I've been homeless, since I became ill in my late 20s.

SPENCER MICHELS: You were just living out on the street? I mean, staying, sleeping

on sidewalks and so forth?

STEVEN DEVALD: Wherever I could find a place: In parks, in sidewalks, in the mountains sometimes.

SPENCER MICHELS: Devald qualified for housing under the mayor's plan and recently moved into a rehabbed single-room occupancy, or SRO hotel, where he has a small room of his own. He lives just a block from a newly opened medical clinic that caters to hotel residents.

STEVEN DEVALD: Hi, I'm here to see the Dr. Swedlow.

SPENCER MICHELS: He sees a variety of health workers. The clinic is funded by federal and city money. Devald still occasionally panhandles, but he is encouraged by the changes he has seen in his neighborhood.

STEVEN DEVALD: This is one of the most difficult, dangerous places to live. It used to be just person after person after person living on the sidewalks, begging for change. There was no place to go. It was like they ran out of West. Now they have programs and healthcare and a chance at civility and a way to live.

SPOKESPERSON: Do me a favor and sit up?

SPENCER MICHELS: Longtime city outreach worker Ben Amyes now has housing he can offer his clients; 800 newly rehabbed rooms were filled in March. There'll be 1,200 by June.

SPOKESMAN: I'm going to call right now. And I'm gong to tell her that I've got one room reserved for you, okay? That's all I got today.

WOMAN: A room?

SPOKESMAN: A room at an SRO, okay? And we're...

WOMAN: If I go right now I can sleep inside tonight?

SPOKESMAN: If you go there before 4:00...

SPENCER MICHELS: Aymes admits the city doesn't have enough rooms to meet the current demand, and that shortage is just one of several criticisms of the mayor's homeless program. Juan Prada, director of the coalition on homelessness, says only one in three needy homeless people gets housing, while the others simply get less money.

JUAN PRADA: So what we see is a policy that focuses on housing a few people, the most visible cases of the homeless people, at the expense of other people that are losing their benefits; they're being left out in the cold, and we just simply don't know where they end up.

SPENCER MICHELS: Prada also questions the accuracy of the survey that shows a big drop in homelessness.

JUAN PRADA: We haven't seen that. What we do see is a move from people in the central areas of San Francisco to outer neighborhoods, pushed out by this combination of diminishing resources and law enforcement.

SPENCER MICHELS: As evidence that homelessness is far from solved, coalition members took us to Saint Boniface Church, in the tenderloin, which every day allows up to 120 homeless people to use the sanctuary for daytime sleeping. The homeless in the pews speak to the policies of Care Not Cash, according to the overseer of the Church, Shelly Roder.

SHELLY RODER, St. Boniface Church: They're only affecting really a minute portion of the homeless community. But the majority of the homeless community aren't on the city welfare benefits, and those folks aren't getting the services that they need still in order to exit homelessness and moving on to supportive housing.

SPENCER MICHELS: Next door is Saint Anthony's Dining Room, which is serving 2,400 free meals a day, up 14 percent from last year. The critics also say that by concentrating on the chronically homeless, who make up just 10 to 20 percent of all homeless people, the mayor's program neglects homeless families. But the mayor argues the chronically homeless account for nearly 70 percent of social service costs, including emergency rooms and jails. Newsom, a self-described liberal Democrat, says his plan will work provided he gets support from the federal government, which, he notes, has recently cut housing funds.

MAYOR GAVIN NEWSOM: This is a national disgrace, and there is no leadership at the federal level, absolutely none on this-- Democrats and Republicans. Did you hear in the last presidential election, homelessness? Not even close.

SPENCER MICHELS: But Newsom does praise federal homeless coordinator Philip Mangano for trying. And Mangano sees San Francisco as a laboratory where new ideas are starting to pay off.

PHILIP MANGANO: San Francisco has the potential of being the tipping point of homelessness in our country. When people see a change on the streets of San Francisco, they'll understand that change on homelessness is possible anywhere in our country.

MAYOR GAVIN NEWSOM: It takes just a tiny transition. So be patient.

SPENCER MICHELS: Mayor Newsom says that by July every homeless person whose welfare check was cut will have housing and services. But the irony, he says, is that by succeeding, San Francisco will attract new homeless, making it even harder to end chronic homelessness in ten years.

FOCUS - BROOKS & MEYERSON

JIM LEHRER: Finally tonight, Brooks and Meyerson: New York Times columnist David Brooks, and Washington Post columnist Harold Meyerson. He's also editor at large at AmericanProspect and political editor of the LA Weekly. Mark Shields is off tonight. David, Pope John Paul II. First time in history a U.S. President has attended a funeral for a pope. First time flags were flown at half mast in the United States. Any meaning here at all?

DAVID BROOKS: There are two things. First, he wasn't only the head of the Catholic Church, he was a world historical figures. I'd say in the '80s there were five world historical figures, people who really moved history: The pope, Solzhenitsyn, Mandela, Reagan, and Thatcher. So he sort of extended beyond simply the Church. The second thing I'd say that the Catholic Church and public relations toward the Catholic Church have become a lot less fraught in this country over the past 30 years. It was a non-issue essentially when John Kerry ran for president, unlike 1960. And I think one of the great civil rights triumphs of America in our lifetimes really is the diminution though not elimination but the diminution in anti-Catholic prejudice. It's become more acceptable for people.

JIM LEHRER: What's your reading, Harold?

DAVID BROOKS: We've in essence replaced the old rift between Protestants and Catholics, which was a huge source of...

JIM LEHRER: It used to be a very big thing.

HAROLD MEYERSON: This was a major source of political tension in this country in the last part of the 19th and the first part of the 20th century. That's been replaced now by a tension between the more religiously observant and the more religiously... or non-religiously secular. And the pope had become kind of a unifying figure for the more religiously observant, which is very much...

JIM LEHRER: No matter what your own personal religious belief was.

HAROLD MEYERSON: Exactly. There's a kind of new dividing line which isn't Protestant/Catholic but more observant secular and this Republican coalition that George W. Bush heads is very invested in the growth, the care, and the feeding of this observant coalition. It's a very important part of the Republican coalition.

JIM LEHRER: Does that make sense to you?

DAVID BROOKS: Absolutely. I wouldn't say it needs the Bush administration, it is sort of spontaneous. And I would say one of the groups that was most instrumental in lessening anti-Catholic attitudes were southern evangelicals in the 50's and 60's who recognized the things they had in common with these people and took away - really this was the core of anti-Catholic feeling and they said, no, "let's reach out to these people." If you talk to evangelical Protestants or observant Catholics about Veritatis Splendor, one of the encyclicals of the pope where he talks about freedom, really means obedience to God's word, that's something they both can agree on, so the encyclicals which the pope issued were things that ideologically, intellectually unified this coalition Harold's talking about.

JIM LEHRER: Do you agree with David, Harold, that it also had a lot to do with this particular human being, Pope John Paul II?

HAROLD MEYERSON: Sure it did. I mean, it will be an interesting test to see the level of governmental support, let us say, turning out for the funeral of Nelson Mandela, one of your other five figures who is not part of this political coalition that the pope came to symbolize and that the Republicans are, I think, exploiting very well. But of course it is. And of course he also symbolized things pretty much to everybody across the spectrum. There was something there that anyone in any part of the spectrum could identify with, with the pope. On the drive over today, I passed a Federal Reserve Bank, saw the flag at half-staff and it occurred to me that the pope's economics were a good deal more humane than Alan Greenspan's, so for my point of view I appreciated that. But that's not why the flag was at half-staff. It was other reasons than that.

JIM LEHRER: Okay. New issue, new person: Tom DeLay. His situation continues to grow. What direction is it growing, do you think?

HAROLD MEYERSON: Well, this was the week that Tom DeLay's ethics ceased to be a story and became a beat. That's a bad thing for a...

JIM LEHRER: Beat as in a news beat?

HAROLD MEYERSON: Yes. Yes. This is the story that keeps springing out in many different directions and this was clear on the same day when both the New York Times and Washington Post had front-page stories about unrelated ethical issues that had arisen about DeLay's career, in one case having his wife and daughter on his Political Action Committee's payroll, in another case a trip DeLay had taken to Russia which apparently very circuitously, was paid by a Russian oil and gas company with close ties to the Russian Defense Ministry. There's just so many things coming out about DeLay right now. And his own method of counterattacking, which is to raise the whole issue of are judges sufficiently answerable to Congress and the public wheel is just inflaming matters more.

JIM LEHRER: You have been staying in contact with Republicans on this, David. What are they telling you?

DAVID BROOKS: Well, the first... first a number of them who normally say everything to me are saying even privately "I just don't want to talk about it:".

JIM LEHRER: They're just praying it's going to go away?

DAVID BROOKS: Right. And the ones who are talking very candidly to me off the record are saying there's been a deterioration, that there was a meeting where people rallied around DeLay and a number of people did speak up in his defense, there were about 20 people really clapping vociferously, a lot of people sitting on their hands and a lot more people who just didn't go to the meeting. And so it's not the scandals. It's not Post and the Times stories. That was DeLay's best day of the week because when House Republicans see stories in the Post and in my opinion, they think it's the liberal press attacking us, well, let's rally around this guy, so it's not the scandals, it's the anxiety about the guy. It's why - you know, he knows he's under the microscope, why is he always under the ethical edge and then when he's under scrutiny, as Harold says, why is he lashing out at an institution, the judges? You know, he's always on aggressiveness. And so they're afraid his anxiety that he creates around him will become a political liability. It's not the scandal, it's the politics.

JIM LEHRER: I was struck by a statement in a speech that Justice Sandra Day O'Connor made yesterday asking the politicians to cool the rhetoric, the anti-judge rhetoric because of the recent attacks on the Judiciary and whatever. Is she talking to Tom DeLay?

HAROLD MEYERSON: She sure is and so was Chief Justice Rehnquist sometime ago when he said you cannot impeach a judge for delivering a decision, an opinion. You know, it's one thing... in the old days the American right went after liberal judges, impeach Earl Warren, said the billboards. Right now seven of the nine Supreme Court Justices were appointed by Republican presidents and a majority of the 266 appellate judges were appointed by Republican presidents. I mean, what is this institution that Tom DeLay is lashing back at? This is not a liberal institution. And there's a lot of moderate Republican dismay registered in the polling about attacks on an independent judiciary.

JIM LEHRER: Where do you think it's coming from? Is it coming from the Schiavo... if the pope had not died... somebody said to this to me today - just think what we had been talking about for the last ten days if the pope had not died - we'd still be talking about Schiavo and all of the ramifications. DeLay is still talking about Schiavo?

DAVID BROOKS: Right. We'd be talking about Saul Bellow.

JIM LEHRER: Right.

DAVID BROOKS: I guess I'd say there's an emerging difference between what you'd call the ideological conservatives who really do want to change a lot of things and within the Republican Party the temperamental conservatives who are a little nervous about the "take no prisoners" tactics, who are a little nervous about the attack on the Judiciary, who are a little nervous frankly about Social Security reform which seems sort of a new thing. And so one of the things you're seeing within the Republican Party is the fracturing between the "let's change everything" types and the "hey, I'm a conservative temperamentally, which means I'm cautious and I want order." And there's a little nervousness among those temperamental conservatives.

JIM LEHRER: Those are the people who have a serious problem with, a serious problem with Tom DeLay?

DAVID BROOKS: They have a problem with DeLay; they have a problem with the nuclear option on the judicial nominations; they have a problem with Social Security; they have a problem with the whole aggressive mode of where things are going. A third of Republicans opposed the personal accounts in Social Security. These are cautious Republicans.

JIM LEHRER: New subject and finally, Harold, the coming of a new government in Iraq. What does that mean for this whole thing that got us where we are in Iraq?

HAROLD MEYERSON: Well, it is something that I think people across a number of political tendencies should certainly welcome. You want there to be some result at the end of the day that is better than what was there and this certainly moves in that direction. It's not at all clear if a democratic government that can keep a unified country is going to emerge there. They still have to write a constitution, there are all kinds of issues there with minority rights and majority rule that will be difficult to iron out. And there are any number of nations over the last 20 years, the former Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, that as democracy became part of the political landscape actually fractured upon ethnic lines which may yet happen to Iraq. It's a little early in the game to make a final prediction there.

JIM LEHRER: What is your prediction? Final or otherwise?

DAVID BROOKS: We've been told about the fracturing of Iraq, and there hasn't been any really sign of that; on the contrary. And when our reporters were asking people... are always asking people, are you Shia, Sunni, or Kurd, the answer they get back is, why are you asking me that question, I'm an Iraqi. There seems to be a lot of national cohesion to that. And the other thing you have to say is this is another step of Iraqis taking responsibility for their own country. And that's important at the government level; it's also important at the personal level. And I've been struck by changes in after a terrorist attack at Hillah a couple weeks ago Iraqis spontaneously protesting the attack; Iraqis spontaneously coming up against the insurgents and fighting back. And that's part of the process of taking responsibility foryour own country and not thinking-- which obviously didn't happen and couldn't happen-- was that the U.S. could do this thing for them.

DAVID BROOKS: So you're... this is optimistic... an optimistic development that makes you even more optimistic?

DAVID BROOKS: One's optimism is always tempered. I sometimes think with all the great things happening around the Middle East that Iraq policy will succeed everywhere but Iraq. So you have to be a little pessimistic, given the level of violence. Nonetheless, as we move, the formation of a government is a good thing.

JIM LEHRER: Of course, you were opposed to the war; you were opposed to military option.

HAROLD MEYERSON: Absolutely.

JIM LEHRER: Can you put that aside now and look at what's happening now as a good thing?

HAROLD MEYERSON: Yes. What's happening now is a good thing. But then I have to look at the other consequences of our intervention, America's standing in the rest of the world, the fact that George W. Bush was booed by people attending the pope's funeral today when they saw him on television. And this is not a radical crowd. These were people out for the pope's funeral. There are all kinds of positive and negative consequences to what George W. Bush did; I can oppose what he did and nonetheless see that there could be some very positive consequences among many at the end of the day.

JIM LEHRER: The formation of the government this week was one of them?

HAROLD MEYERSON: It is so far as it goes. And I said, we'll see where this goes at the end of the line but right now yes.

JIM LEHRER: Okay. Thank you, gentlemen. Harold, good to see you again.

HAROLD MEYERSON: Thank you.

RECAP

JIM LEHRER: Again the major story of the day, Pope John Paul II was laid to rest at the Vatican. Leaders from around the world joined some 300,000 others to view the funeral Mass in St. Peter's Square.

JIM LEHRER: And once again, to our honor role of American service personnel killed in Iraq. We add them as their deaths are made official and photographs become available. Here in silence are seven more.

JIM LEHRER: Washington Week can be seen on most PBS stations later this evening. We'll see you on line and again here Monday evening. Have a nice weekend. I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank you and good night.