The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

ce la santa santa santa said earlier it's been good evening leading the news last friday that drought is causing salt water to creep up the mississippi river the white house said it wants iran contra legal proceedings to go forward and is processing documents as fast as possible fresh fighting between rival palestinian groups erupted in beirut well i'd be chosen on his seminal moment judy woodruff is in washington tonight today after the news summary the drought is again our lead focus we zero in on a proposal to divert water from the great lakes to

the mississippi river the governor of wisconsin and a water official from illinois join us next a report from minneapolis is on a few miles in some unhappy doctors and finally conservatives in an uproar over a civil rights disputes facing the supreme court we hear from reporter nina totenberg and to activists who disagree below the newshour provided like eighty at combining everything people like about telephones with everything they make everything about information at mt funding is also provided by the station and other public television stations and the corporation for public broadcasting the drought has lowered the mississippi river water level so far the saltwater from the gulf of mexico is moving up the river us army corps of engineers said today it will build a barrier on the river bottom to protect drinking water from the salt water intrusion so far the salt water has

come fifty seven miles upriver seven miles farther than usual passing some time water into eggs and is advancing towards heavily populated parishes ninety miles upstream the river is at its lowest level since nineteen seventy two today the first largest began to move in memphis tennessee the coast guard opened the river after three days of judging by the army corps of engineers twelve hundred martyrs were stalled by the low water across from brought some rain to the upper midwest today a hot dry weather persisted elsewhere white house said today it wants legal proceedings to go forward in the iran contra days spokesman claimed the raid and illustration is doing everything it can to expedite the processing of thousands of classified documents in order to determine which can be made public and used as evidence in the trial of colonel oliver north yesterday the federal judge who is overseeing the case urge the administration to make a decision on whether the case would go forward or not judge gearhart gazelle suggested the administration

could hold up the case by the lying a decision on the docket attorney general edwin meese meant to teach a group of high school students today in a program called the presidential classroom but found himself being questioned about his own legal problems we realize that you have not been charged with any wrongdoing and this time however the accusations against you put a cloud over the entire justice department i respect for the opposition and for this administration that have not stepped aside until this issue as a result in this case i am happy to say that there have been no interference with the department of justice or with my ability to for my duties in fact even the time that has taken to consult with my lord is usually done after hours or on weekends and in a way it hasn't been any interference with the effective leadership or the effect of operations at the justice the attorney general also said that stories in the news media about resignations of key justice department officials had long the situation out of proportion a divided supreme court today

ruled that states are not required to provide free bus service for poor school children the case involved a family in rural north dakota which said it could not afford to pay the ninety seven dollar annual bus fate witch charged to drive a daughter is sixteen miles to school writing for the majority justice sandra day o'connor said there is nothing wrong with charging a reasonable fateful bus service justice thurgood marshall and three other dissenters disagree and criticize the majority opinion as a retreat from the promise of equal educational opportunity pope john paul the second today visited the former mob ties in nazi concentration camp in austria where an estimated one hundred ten thousand people died in a speech at the site the pope condemned the lunatic ideology which inspired the gap that in referring to victims did not mention cruz that angered austria's chief rabbi chaim eisenberg who said the visit to mount thousand without mentioning the

word juice is not satisfactory earlier today the pope told jewish leaders that palestinians have a right to online as well as june's two incidents of violence in israel's occupied west bank today in one of palestinians stabbed an american born jewish settler in the back what was that there was on a shopping trip into town of hebron the victim in turn chased and shot the man who had stabbed in both men were hospitalized in fair condition and some jewish settlers reacted by demanding revenge in the second incident in nablus and israeli settlers jump out of a van and began firing into the submachine gun and a crowd of young palestinians after he and his wife had stones thrown at them seven arab wounded including two eight year old boys when israeli troops moved in and began firing tear gas and rubber bullets to israelis were slightly injured in lebanon new fighting broke out again today ed

to refugee camps and they wrote we have a report by cow's rectum of business mr boyle but they really showed the incumbent david refugee camp part three day of the fighting broke out again between model yet in action i think you know you enter the new camp or a loved one and david you have two thousand five hundred people killed in the latest outbreak of violence yeah that would be attending the camp that you cannot bore shall brush and again and held by government action that might have been backed by libya were counting down the rate of one show every ten minutes four people were killed in the part of our community for a russian hockey for the government reported would not gain any ground in the ring began to turn in a lull in the fighting in turkey rescue efforts continue

today following mudslides which may have buried a hundred people rescue workers use search dogs to identify three areas where people may be buried but they could not spell of the victims were dead or alive villagers reportedly have heard cries for help coming from beneath the debris new mudslides can clearly actually because the littler to flood the village at the top which is located in north eastern turkey in mexico two people died and twenty others were injured when fire broke out the petroleum storage facility in guadalupe the fire began late yesterday officials declared it out this morning that it has since re ignited the blaze began winfrey oil tanks exploded into state owned tank farm the blast sent flames of a hundred feet into the air and several cars forced more than ten thousand people on a nearby homes and raise temperatures of up to fifty four hundred degrees fahrenheit the deposed president of haiti leveling money god arrived in

miami today he came in search of support for his effort to mobilize international opinion against the military leaders who took over his country last sunday is aids at my god had no plans to meet with us officials on this trip the united states has been led by lieutenant colonel that's our new summer is still ahead on the newshour hard times for the mighty mississippi doctors and age and lows and a new battle over civil rights first tonight we turn to another casualty of the continuing drought this country's major midwestern rivers the mississippi river is more than two and a half feet below its low level marker at its lowest point in over a century farmers in surrounding states are hit double a hard by this drought and barges with their products are forced to inch along the mississippi traffic is blocked on part of the

ohio river which carry shipments of steel from pittsburgh and grain from midwest farmland in a moment we will debate whether water from them great light should be diverted to the mississippi governor of wisconsin and the director of the illinois division of water resources but first correspondent elizabeth bracket has this report from memphis where dredging began tuesday afternoon and how that overthrowing company outside of memphis tennessee says on an offshoot of the mississippi river and that has caused big problems of until last month the barges headed towards medical came up this stretch of the river no more so matt go dry brain in barges from the other direction but once loaded those barges that start going out there goes engineering manager has tried to cope with the problem more more difficulty getting product out of the refinery at

us not of the river the river's flow has nothing on the plastic that's about twenty five percent of capacity even if barges could get in or out of apple would still have trouble this is their loading barge is supposed to be floating on the river that was before the water went down fifty three feet here we decided to go to the lowest the river has never gone which is minus seven and have these been the river's writer ninety below zero nine update about what may have below where we had this time goes by we are in danger of losing a piece be sliding off the guidance lie down and let go says it's too early to assess the losses but they are now stockpiling much of the

gasoline and diesel oil produced at the refinery other tanks are now nearly fill thank you to pork river from apple the cartel grain company is also in trouble by jews used to carry grade are stuck on the rivers about an analyst transfer in the grain to empty baggies to lighten the load and if you buy those are now light enough to move through the low water by camels capacity to ship its grain has been cut by over one third plus i remain child the mississippi the barges these industries need so desperately haven't been moving at all the last three days all river traffic was cut off just north of memphis says the army corps of engineers dredge around the clock to try and open the quad channel even a three day closure great economic havoc on the river half of the nation's export brain is shipped on the mississippi twenty percent of the nation's

coal is shipped on the mississippi and its tributaries delays mean millions in added cost that will eventually find their way at the consumer late this afternoon the dredging was completed in the twelve hundred bodies that have been caught up in the closure began slowly moving again and bill gross of the army corps of engineers says the huge barge buildup means trouble all of a sudden you're going to have twelve hundred or just that one voice hitting well two directions but this is very abnormal you're setting yourself up for other problems in a ten year that it's like and i guess the analogy would be the freeway it oh it's a beast is a tumble pilots who must fight the problems that traffic and low water create on the river journey price has been on the river fourteen a half years and like others he has never seen the water so

low on the radio constantly with other pilots ejected missions during the three day shutdown rice use of a new problem caused by low water no place to try out prices for you know the low water has meant a whole different river for the charlotte to navigate i'm curious when shall i make to run from beaumont texas to st louis it usually takes about fourteen days now they've already been out ten days there were only two thirds of the way to silence and he says at a data drive up the costs tovar operators those up to ten thousand dollars a day in revenue and one of nearly that much in cars boats or forced to sit idle cruz must be kept onboard votes must be supplied fuel costs

continue in since rates are based on delivery dates as deadlines pass profits plummet company president frank stanton bauer says those delays hurt this is totally not expect like oh this is obama restaurant into it where we fry weighed about one of that one won a girls weekend you know what the somebody and hopes to finish up through this year where we can prove it dredging operations in the army corps they're keeping the river open are critical to both towboat operators on the main channel in the industry's situated in the river's harper's those of a towboat want the main channel dredged first are you but dredging the main river general doesn't help companies like gmac go to keep that goes two hundred employees on the job lawrence deal tries to convince the army corps grows dredge in his harbor

it's better but what may finally shut map go down is the loss of the tv a power plant just around the band the water is so low at the plans in the ig system the plant has already shut down one unit if the plant goes down both consumers will pay more for power from another source but that growth doesn't have that option generally possibly have imbalances

most here don't expect the crisis to end anytime soon the army corps and the coast guard of that to keep the river open but without substantial rains throughout the mississippi river valley many wonder if the court can keep up that needed dredging dedicated overlooked her now i would be partially our be reluctant to make the balls a winter that we are going to keep their job market that right i think they'll return to god for a core american of constant so those here in the memphis area who depend on the river are doing what much of the rest of the country is doing waiting hoping and praying for rain at an emergency drought meeting of governors yesterday in chicago illinois governor jim thompson called for drastic action the nation's commerce must be kept moving into is not moving on the mississippi river the mississippi river is for all practical purposes shot the only hope of opening the mississippi

and the other rivers for the corps of engineers to petition the united states supreme court to allow temporary diversion of lake michigan in chicago in a controlled fashion to move the barges down our waterways as we seek ways to help our drought stricken farmers we must also remember those farmers who were attempting to get product to market here to debate whether water should be diverted from the great lakes is wisconsin governor tommy thompson was also president of the great lakes governors association and dian von and they director of the illinois division of water resources he is also co chair of the illinois drought task force esteban inmate there is dredging that continues it it's underway now why do we need a diversion that your governor was talking about that because that is a quicker in more efficient way to get navigation moving on the middle and lower mississippi rivers but let's talk about the broader picture why is it so important in an economic sense for that navigation

libya to continue that as far as illinois concern our state is very dependent economy is very dependent on water borne commerce you and i as the second most total mileage of navigable waterways of any state in the union and as such about fifteen percent of the nation's commerce moves on our waterways and by our porch and terminals and about thirty two percent of the nation's agricultural production is moving on our waterways and terminals if the lower mississippi river is not able to pass traffic then we cannot move the national crime goes up from the softer the north through our system are can remove are commodities out of the state of illinois and two other places about commerce and trade so the online economy is very very much affected by a lack of the ability to pass traffic on the mississippi river without much of the nation's commerce at stake here why do you why are you opposed to this idea gm opposed war for so reasons it's a

temporary solution that may have lasting permanent impact on the great lakes we do not know how this is going to affect a great lakes shipping with it is then adversely affected we don't know how it's going to impact at all in regards to those communities around the great lakes to withdraw water now for pop public water consumption as well as les paul's would allow is going to affect tourism as well as the a hydroelectric power generation and north in northwestern ohio we had signed a compact as governors are on the great lakes that no diversions gonna take place until all the governors a great governor jim thompson is the only one that right now is advocating this the rest the great lakes governors really was the masses of these questions that we think and gather paramount importance but as mr vaughn and i was saying if i understand correctly of fifteen percent is is that the correct percentage <unk> ivana may of the nation's commerce a river commerce is is moving up normally moves up and down the rivers are a that is correct it in the answer to governor

tom thompson's inquiry are we have checked within the corps of engineers that when they asked us to consider this proposal initially and as our governor considered the advantages and disadvantages he thought that the advantage is far outweighed the disadvantage is what we are greatly chipper also and the impact of the increased the version we were advised by the corps of engineers that if the diversion lasted for as much as six months it would probably lower the lakes the level of lake michigan in here and by about an inch now we don't know how long the drought is going to last but that was a duration of flow of duration of the diversions that we could test to see just what the impact on the great lakes would be we're also advised by the great lake shippers that if the levels of lake michigan in here and drop an inch they will probably have to reduce bloating on their ore carriers by about two hundred and thirty times to compensate for this injury reduced navigable debts there's only about four tenths of a

percent though of the total cargo though lake or carrier or green carrier moves through the system and the immune system gets much much worse right now in an attempt to have the barges navigate the inland waterways they are light loading by as much as one foot anomaly loaded nine feet of grass so by only willing to eight feet they are sacrificing eleven percent of their cargoes just to try and navigate a governor and let me just bring the governor back in here the governor what you're here what we're hearing is that the effect on the mississippi river is is already much worse than what it would be on the great lakes at the water were diverted away from the life well julie that may be true but there's also some other lasting legal questions that have to be decided number one almost all of the case law has decided that one should dever there is no way to prevent that from happening in the future or ever being able to cut it off so this diversion right now maybe a prominent diversion going down the mississippi out of the great lakes

which we could have some person a permanent adverse impact on all the great lakes shipping and all the great lakes states and answer questions that we want answered before the great lakes covers go along with any kind of the version whatsoever mr vaughn amazed that a passable many as it as they did briefly describe how would the water actually be diverted to the river yesterday the water would be released into it chicago sanitary and ship canal for either of two structures along the periphery of lake michigan in illinois and the diversion could be stopped very easily i i we would increase the diversion by manipulating gates we could shut off in the same manner so i don't think that there is any war ii that it wants the diversion it started that it couldn't be stop thompson but you'll be missed appointments he misses the point because recurring a law allows for him too to continue that out of the diversion and takes away the control of the great lakes governors and great lakes states and

doesn't illinois and i don't know any government's willing to do that finally what exactly would be involved legally area where are you familiar enough with it there now that yes in the governor's letter to the assistant secretary kerry the army he is not looking for any long term version of all in fact he just as the assistant secretary or rather page two do the temporary diversion for as long as the drought lasted end of that route to follow lasted over thirty or forty days and then we return to normal rainfall conditions we would be happy to have the corps of engineers showed off the additional diversion what the court have to go to the supreme court to get permission to do this as was suggested yesterday know we do not think so because the supreme court victory only of sex the illinois person or to the state's only use of the thirty two hundred cubic foot per second allocation that we do get we feel that this additional diversion for use on the middle and lower

mississippi rivers would be in the national interest and as such since it isn't for ellen i only it would not enter the pervasive the supreme court as the governor was heading south today from some negotiations and the secretary of the army was in contact with an interstate airplane and the secretary of the army and the assistant secretary of the army did advise him that as a result the governor's request that the assistant secretary would be asking the other governors for their opinion offering to give them impact information and that the assistant secretary would also be checking with the department of justice to ensure that the legal claims that we feel are true are in fact the case governor thompson and we assume that your response when you get that letter will will be a negative when you get when you're mr jody i'm also joined with governor privilege of minnesota governor blanchard michigan and governor celeste while what do you think should be done about the air what is it an increasing crisis now on the mississippi river in the end and the ohio river what what do you think should be done if not on something like this diversion

idea only have to continue dry junior choruses the lasting solution to any of these problems of course as ray we say that a temporary diversion right now and i will reiterate that it could cause untold problems for all the great lakes states including illinois and basso were opposed to at this point time without further information further input from us well at what you save if rain came would've rain didn't come by say next week or the week after would you be willing to take another look at this all the great lakes governors association is willing to take a look at it and governor jim thompson of course is a member of that association were willing to consider anything that will alleviate the problems on the mississippi aware also want to make sure that at the same time we do not adversely impact on the great lakes served system itself and that's a big danger right gentlemen we'll leave it there with it both of a win as governor tommy thompson we thank you and on vinyl man thank you think the remote still to come on the newshour doctors and hmo is and the supreme

court again tackle civil rights next we focus on the controversial business of health care more and more people and businesses are turning to hmo is health maintenance organizations in an effort to cut rising medical costs but what has consumers happy as many doctors outraged we have a document report from minnesota our correspondent his friends and was a role a public station katie ca in minneapolis st paul to help maintenance organizations are big business in minnesota a dozen they cannot operate here providing health care coverage for just about half the state's population police for most women samplings clientele seems pleased and very satisfied with nature and no complaints whatsoever our family's pretty healthy but if we have a thing because it's so comprehensively

come down for an informal my check up comedians all taking care so enjoy them as she says that that's the main thing smart a wellness program see the periodic checkups and bird summit i mean what's their periodic checkups like diabetes or about pain already going in other words that at most there are no deductibles or the patient copayments common on most conventional health insurance to most often they care for a flat monthly or yearly fee numbers get everything from checkups to catastrophic care doctors and hospitals to affiliate with hmo plans receive a flat fee for providing their services to hmo members the message to providers has their fish of their practice the more money they can make a rationale is that it cuts out unnecessary care for protective services at our feature most have made minnesota a paradise for consumers they needed a nightmare when doctors at least that's what a number of doctors say over six hundred twin

cities positions last year to hear the dissent of mark everett californication unionized <unk> whenever possible you know that you and i have become employees remember we're talking now about the retina go see the circumstances under which you will henceforth be obliged to set your labor i know all about how you hate unions but the answer is if you can't win on china at these doctors are union members in nineteen eighty six unhappy about pay and working conditions they struck their employer health association in washington dc health maintenance organization but they are the exception most doctors' practices are incorporated as independent businesses which contract with a gem boats they cannot unionize since it would violate anti trust

laws against price fixing but the strike is evidence that the years of grappling with their role in today's healthcare marketplace there were chagrined when a victim has just they're practicing medicine seeing patients trying to be a jobbing available and and i get paid a fair wage for the niceties so for two of pursuing other complexities involved in this this business of medicine does business of managed health care dr david nelson is a minneapolis plastic surgeon he says because hmo that role so many minnesotans doctors here have no choice but to affiliate with one or more such plans nelson chose physicians' health plan in nineteen seventy five the attraction at that time he says was that the akp was founded and controlled by doctors initially were first touring for shaking and roll it was the great the room most of financial difficulty and after we brought animation company things beginning of voters each

bee's new managers united healthcare company wants to do an aggressive marketing eight years other twin cities hmo was followed suit setting off a price war to lure patients bhp emerge the winner and it's in rome and sword the age of these managers look for cost savings as well as customers patients were kept in hospitals for shorter periods outpatient surgery was encouraged and cheaper clinic settings wherever possible but the board and dr nelson feels was been shifted to doctors they now have to put as more equipment space and support staff to do many of the things hospitals bristling that they weren't paid accordingly he adds an improvisation became a business decision that had to be defended well i understand but our patient is in chronic congestive heart failure requires rather stringent sodium

restriction in order to control of the water balance in our lives i spend fifty to sixty percent of my time practicing medicine forty percent of the time doing your paperwork colorful weren't the happiest hours of monday allows only opera doing something i really enjoy doing it a challenge to me i've been trying to do what i think i'm good at only about the office and foreign faced with a stack of paperwork and faced with trying to justify why did a certain procedure or why a certain procedure costs would be and that's a real frustration the frustration eventually led a group of php doctors to launch a public battle against their management company to reshape its board of directors the resulting lawsuit in coverage suit so threatened the survival of walk by and now as the state's largest hmo the governor really privileged personally intervened to bring the two sides do an accord at the bargaining table if that plant in status to solve if that falls apart i think that will have reverberations all around the country for at least the medical

profession's willingness to play ball with this kind of a delivery service arthur caplan who heads the biomedical ethics centre at the university of minnesota has been closely following developments at physicians' health plan different models that have come into existence to deliver medicine in under prepaid clams being closely watched by physicians all around the country that they're there aren't that many years the country experiment with them and all being watched very closely with a new board of directors and a tentative peace between the nba scene indies bhp start to show signs of returning to black ink but it remains a financial struggle for it and several other twin cities hmo and all plans premiums have gone up it's been difficult or at most to estimate when you hear the amount of services members will use and analysts say is a growing attitude among members that says use the service because it's they're paid for in other words patients were taking advantage of procedures and services they might otherwise or go if they had to pay for the meantime

despite these problems dr paul elwood considered the father of the hmo concept remains optimistic it's a viable one elwood predicts managers will eventually get a better grip on costs market forces will prompt murders and that in turn he says will reduce competitive pressures elwood says hmo such here to stay and doctors better get used to the new reality if the doctor can find someone outside of their health plan that will pay them more than they can earn more this is that with an oversupply of physicians physicians find that they have to work for these organizations that they feel don't pay them enough the system is tilted towards consumers there's no doubt about the last as long as consumers think that age and those are good deal but dr nelson says consumers may soon begin to feel the pinch hospitals and our doctors and orr says quality care could be at stake he cites an example where his a general would not reimburse him forcefully lives of street

furniture i was going to see your mercy basis and clearer closer temporarily was sutures a bubble after they wound heals years the us have opposed to an energy efficient house has a very large series and after a year we just went back and remove this entire skin graft and left her with a a long scar on her cheek was the sutures are actually able to discover this garb was a little makeup and fortunately as were saying with more more regularity in terms composition most of the typically are finding difficulty in covering this particular procedure deeming it non functional for cosmetic in nature i've become very skeptical when dr start talking about the adverse qualitative impact of the new payment arrangements and the debate between indies an nba city there is perhaps no more powerful a defender of the nba schedule and paul elwood

empty or elwood to conceive the hmo idea and at a later championed by the nixon administration says there's no evidence that quality has been compromised in minnesota in fact elwood says at most will soon begin to provide better quality care as they begin to analyze the huge volume of information compiled over the years about their members many many illnesses we have carried us that we can make when operation versus another one drug versus an operation but medical care is so complex and subtle that we haven't been able to resolve those differences but by having huge populations of people that we can follow very closely because paying the bill is tied to what happens to the patient we now i think they will go through a natural experiment to resolve some of these questions about what works in medical care whether or not one one that the treatment worked at a molecular stuff i think most people feel that too as we've known that all of we haven't elwood and other experts

say these databases can does point out any needless excesses in healthcare service and also help them better predict health needs of their memberships and their cost once this homework is done analysts say look we're ready to emerge an hmo it will be watched closely by policymakers consumer groups and especially by doctors now we turn to another battle brewing over civil rights in april the supreme court voted to reconsider a landmark decision called runnin versus mccrary it was an unusual move because no one had asked the court to do so a nineteen seventy six runyon ruling was based on a reconstruction era law allowing individuals to sue private citizens for racial discrimination the court's surprise move cheered conservatives and shop civil rights advocates some sixty senators hundred

nineteen representatives hundreds of civil rights groups as well as the american bar association of urged the court not to overturn the runnin decision usually in a case with so much at stake the administration would express its views ruined solicitor general charles fried but this week reid stated he would not take part in the debate prompting angry conservatives to call for his resignation for more on this unusual case we turn first to nina totenberg who covers the supreme court for national public radio you know why did the administration choose not to enter this case well there are a variety of explanations some people have said that what the administration did was the politically smart thing to stay out of a hurricane here after all we now see it's in fact up to sixty six senators on this brief including both the minority leader and the majority leader of the senate forty seven states state attorneys general and well over a hundred groups including the american bar association about every civic or public interest a civil rights group that she

can think of un and that is one to stay away from this controversy i think there are probably some other explanations as well as solicitor general in this administration has had difficulty at sometimes prevailing and what he and i don't just mean mr fried i mean his predecessor in the first reagan administration and what the solicitor general thought would be the best approach to the supreme court and in the past the attorney general specifically ms denise has basically said look we're conservative administration we have a conservative agenda and we're going to push it and they have pushed out and they've lost and in this case just afraid i'm told are you forcefully not to push it some people told me that he wanted to file a brief on the other side in any event in the end he decided no grief would be the best position and i think it's fair to say that this attorney general who in the past might have ah put his

thumb on and frieden said look you got to do what we want you to do decided that he was simply politically in a very precarious position himself and couldn't alienate his own sausage and one hadn't quite so the surrogate could be said to be a direct consequence of the pressures mr masefield himself under as attorney general let me have the legal problems he has and the other pressures it i think conceivably analysis try to put make a very clear definitions are fleeing what's fact and what we have to infer after all this administration had no trouble on reversing previous administrations and arguing for example that segregated private school should get tax exempt status they took that position in the supreme court that was a terrible uproar about a political uproar and they face the quote consequences because it was part of their agenda in this case they decided they won't have that up or you have fried out on a limb getting mad impossibly grating and even though the attorney general said today in an interview that brief interview that we did with him

outside of his speeches a voice supported our solicitor general afraid i think we can infer that there is some more things at work here out what is the effect of the administration not entering the case went when the court takes it up well i think you have to say the effect could be considerable after we have virtually the whole world on one side of this case now saying please upload your previous decision of twelve years ago if you don't it will be a very bad thing and with that diddley squat on the other side can you explain how come the supreme court on it sounds by spontaneous combustion decides to reconsider this case i mean usually somebody comes either comes up through the courts or somebody challenges the ruling and answers reopen it but nobody did in this case why why did they do that and is it as unusual as i think it has it is unusual but we have to say first of all it hasn't happened yet all it said is we're going to look at it again they haven't done it separately at the composition of the court has changed quite dramatically

since nineteen seventy six when this decision was made we know a number of justices have thought for some time specifically the chief justice for example and later joined by justice scalia and then buy up and by justice o'connor thought this kid should be reconsidered on eventually they got enough votes in the swing vote i'm told and this was justice white who finally decided that the case ought to be reconsidered that doesn't mean he's been a voter is that means he's willing to take a look at it and they got the new justice justice kennedy who provided the fifth vote and they wear in business is unusual for the court to just sit around and look over the law as it stands and decided self what it would like to review no it isn't and you know and when i have to say that by tradition the court does not revisit cases based on statutory interpretation and that's what this case was the case of statutory interpretation because the court reasoned that if congress doesn't like the

court's interpretation of the law congress can very simply change the law by majority vote this isn't like passing a constitutional amendment so the justices don't usually revisit these sorts of issues on the other hand one has to say that when you are dramatically change the composition and the court and go to a court that is very very much more conservative than an already previously conservative for it was that it's not going to be without consequences and this is one of the consequences people who have the votes try to use those votes and this court has changed ok nina thank you very much for joining us and joining us now to debate the case itself and the court's decision to reconsider its argument our resident scholar of the center for judicial studies who would like to see the running decision overturned and john paul legal director for the american civil liberties union one of many civil rights organizations it has asked the court to uphold the run in really mr kau why are so deep people might use are concerned that it should not be overturned a first about this case is not an isolated case

this case goes out of a body of water started backing eighteen sixty six right after the civil war and its is the country finally are making good time to make good on a promise of equality and anti discrimination for the freed slaves and there'd been a series of cases that haven't braces on and it's hard to overturn single case and leave the principal attack in addition the court that he acts as a moral teacher for the country and the concept of equality concept of of anti discrimination is very important especially today we're looking at the country coming back to the issue of race and race relationships and very troubled times so it's a very serious matter for the quote service to overturn it from europe or do would be a gesture against the principle that has gradually been accumulating since reconstruction i would say it's more than a gesture in the country there's no national sentiment that the right to

discriminate against blacks and other minority specifically plants and employment situations something this country should embrace it puts you look at this country and very bad company with the likes of south africa germantown why should be overturned in your view the first of all i think it's not very helpful to consider this to be a matter of civil rights for retrenchment what we're really talking about here is a court willing to reconsider her decision that is an expansion of judicial power it's a question of how far should courts will and construe statutes should they go is that in the case of running far beyond what the original congress intended i think there's a message coming from the supreme court it's not that they are against civil rights in any stretch either an education or other that they're willing to tell congress that in the future you better grab your laws with precision out with some definition because we're going to inflate them to walk though you would like you know we did take a moment to tell us where to think the year congress originally intended and then what the court how the court interpreted that in seventy

six well my sense of what happened in seventy six was a record expanded that to include private contractual arrangements and the schools in question were private schools that made offers free admission and then decided to deny admission that was held to be a violation of civil rights the original act was never intended as i understand the history of it to include such private contractual obligations as one of its dissenters said an original running case this really goes far beyond anything that the congress had in mind what would be the practical effect on civil rights in the streets business were overturned but the effects of the many effects it would be legal affairs for is a bar in the area schools are number of things that a number of areas of discrimination that overturns data would allow in addition the statute really has certain remedies the northeast has really haven't worked as the statute as it stands non interventions thousand what does it prevent that could happen if they're

returned to prove that private discrimination based on race to be an example of a kind of a case that came out was a a white school that advertise to the public generally the residents fortunes and some blacks and supply and they were denied admission because they were black and that's to what the running case is about and this is perfectly consistent with what the congress intended for what the cover so white schools could again denied black students admission if this case were overturned yes and not only that i think what the court is joined by inviting archives goes by inviting a re look at this is to really invite conservatives where many conservatives believe those who are against equality principles in this country which i don't think is a conservative the split to raise a whole host of song rise statutes and gospel the past thirty years to see it that way mr dowd first of all and it's practical effect we've just discussed and that example and they are in the overall philosopher you know i

don't think first of all legally the statute in question doesn't have that broader application it's something that for the most part is very narrow the war right now and title seven the civil rights act of far more than compensates for those kinds of things generally the second thing is if this all of this law is over ruled congress has demonstrated very adequately in the past few weeks that it's quite capable of passing legislation to overrule that supreme court opinion as a good number of cities and i think that that's the issue that if congress wants a lot to do with the court and runyon said this law did and now this court says it doesn't do that congress can pass a law that specifically does that and politically that's far more legitimate under the constitution congress can do that what comes to do a bit of the dyes congressional economy for one thing grow city took for years congress has a very full agenda and it's not just congress that has the the charge to protect civil rights in this country it also sends a message and it's not every instant that kind of congress

can reinterpret the stature that started in turkey also there is a principle in and years of practice with car start is isis which is where the court once a decision is made the court is supposed to rely on that and thus their overwhelming reasons not to say once the decision was made in nineteen seventy six in order to really look at it requires overwhelming compelling reasons to overturn it wasn't then it was a settlement remains central that's right and the reason is when the races that could start relying on and the hundreds of cases that relied on monday rahm including the cases before the court now this is not a remarkable case is a case where a woman is charging that she was being sexually harassed on the job the very few people in this country who think that that kind of activity should be protected and leicester now that third of the establishments of or powerpoints do that you don't we open one of settlers are some overwhelming recent well first of all the court appears to think there's an overwhelming reason to they have set forth the agenda to reconsider this

nobody is barred from the government to do so out the problem with sturgis isis in the reliance on president i'm always reminded what thomas hobbes once said that is a president's only show what was done not that it was done well and when a court makes a mistake as many people think he didn't run and then a later ct has an obligation kasich's win politically and legally to correct that mistake ah such cases at by overruling plessy versus ferguson is a case in point can the court decided its owners overwhelming reason they're deciding about is really important for a number of reasons first of august the statutory construction statutory construction is supposed to be alive even more heavily yes the court can overturn that there's districts have big reasons and none of those reasons the president here this decision reading this is it was not made by the record was made by conservative court related to the justice sitting at the time reported by democrats was conservative court in the first instance are and he's right they're there was no controversy no one was asked in the court to reconsider this matter which

makes it all the more remarkable now on another point that whoever was discussing with nina totenberg a minute ago what do you think of the year on the solicitor general's decision not to jump into the fray some conservative isn't accounted for example are saying that he ought to resign men that are the shows that was denise as attorney general in name only do you have an opinion on that well i have two thoughts on that first it's very clear that charles fried has exploited that the attorney general's public problems to his benefit and he's now going to move on that this is the clearest example of that but beyond that i think when things get last year because of the ed meese problem is the fact when the supreme court so is that a law deserve to be looked at again the case deserves to be reconsidered and the united states government says well we don't think it's important for us to file a brief that as a rather callous disregard for the rule to cort plays in this country and i think the solicitor general no matter what the politics of this happening internally or externally the solicitor general had an obligation to file

a break and he didn't do that and i think it's a sign of an absence of courage on his part to do that but i'm also disappointed that the governments that followed are the government did file in nineteen seventy six and it was a decision for ghana was not a man to be a great liberal and they fall in favor of but now as the law and soon so an iron apolitical irony in the situation is that the work who was denied her confirmation as a supreme court justice because of his alleged conservative views voted the other way when this first thing that when the service was decided it isn't as not only that the thing is that this is not a remarkable principle of the idea that people should not be able to be discriminated against employment situation others but general motors of the post office is not remarkable concert that's assad but what do you think of his point that do you agree with the point that the solicitor general owed the system of violence that include the system and opinion from the

bench i think all is too strong a word of advice and then i say i'm disappointed i would hope that it would fall the same way that the government initially there's no new evidence of other new evidence suggests that the statue was correct in the first point and then then then because targets isis i would've hoped you would fall mr dalley you'll see in addition to the really used the phrase a moment ago the attorney general's political problems do you see a political decision within the administration just for whatever ramifications it might have an election year or anything else just to stay away from something that could be construed by people like mr powell as an anti civil rights position i i would imagine that the people in the bush campaign headquarters are breathing easier this evening i think it would be a very tough thing for them to earth to live down out on the campaign trail certainly there's always been allegations of insensitivity unproved allegations of insensitivity is all right by this begins this administration and two to have filed a strongly worded brief which a lot of us think they should've done seeking overturning a run and would have certainly been the fuel for michael dukakis its fires

and just as this guarantee a victory for mr powell side that the administration is not oh i think far from it i think that chief justice rehnquist probably wouldn't have been able to do what he's done so far in the sea that is a pretty good shot at having a case overturned i think that that one could even take the other view and say that the absence of a brief filed on behalf of this administration might enhance the opportunity for running to be overruled you're within five is difficult assailant what i can say is that this is a very serious case and we just say very briefly what they are the vote was seven to initially and all the conservatives of the new rates of us would have to vote against it and will permit one more modest incomes to still think about the germans might add once again a final look at the main stories of this friday drought conditions have cause salt water from the gulf of mexico to creep up the mississippi river the army corps of engineers plans to build a barrier to protect drinking

water a white house spokesman said the reagan administration is trying to expedite the processing of classified documents to the trial of lieutenant colonel oliver north can begin and there was no fighting today between rival palestinian factions in beirut in iran and that's the newshour tonight and we will be back on monday night at a nice weekend robert macneil that nine eleven huge our combining everything people like about telephone with everything they need to make everything about information at mt funding has also provided by the station and other public television stations and the corporation for public broadcasting as

bonnie there are better at this