The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

Intro

ROBERT MacNEIL: Good evening. Here are today's news headlines. The United States and the Soviet Union opened fresh nuclear arms talks in Geneva. In Moscow thousands of Russians and foreign leaders filed past the body of Konstantin Chernenko. President Reagan said Middle East parties are a long way from peace talks. A report said the U.S. has the highest rate of teenage pregnancy in the developed world. Jim Lehrer is away tonight; Judy Woodruff is in Washington. Judy?

JUDY WOODRUFF: After the news summary we have three focus sections on the NewsHour tonight. First we hear from a top adviser to Egyptian President Mubarak who sat in on his meeting today with President Reagan. Then we have a special documentary report on what Star Wars really is and what it could mean for U.S.-Soviet arms negotiations. And we have a debate about what the best cure is for this country's unusually high teenage pregnancy rate.News Summary

MacNEIL: Fifteen months after they walked out, the Soviets sat down with American negotiators in Geneva for a fresh start at nuclear arms control. After the meeting of nearly three hours, the chief U.S. delegate, Max Kampelman, said the first session was serious and businesslike. But he offered no more information, saying he and the Soviets had agreed on the principle of confidentiality. The chief Soviet delegate, Viktor Karpov, told reporters that his instructions had been approved by a meeting last Thursday presided over by the new Soviet leader, Mikhail Gorbachev. The two sides agreed to meet again on Thursday. Here's a report from John Simpson of the BBC at the Soviet Embassy in Geneva.

JOHN SIMPSON, BBC [voice-over]: It was to be the most important East-West contact in a decade, and it took place despite Mr. Chernenko's death. Inside the building Viktor Karpov, the head of the Soviet delegation, chatted in a noticeably relaxed way as he waited for the Americans.

VIKTOR P. KARPOV, Soviet delegate: Everything is negotiable, if you want that. So if there is a real interest in negotiating a ban on space arms, it can be done. It can be done. And the more we do now to prevent the arms race in space, the better it is.

SIMPSON [voice-over]: When the chief of the United States team, Mr. Kampelman, turned up, the atmosphere couldn't have been friendlier. Mr. Karpov hoped that the meeting would be just the first and that they'd reach agreement. His hopes were echoed by Mr. Kampleman.

MAX KAMPELMAN, U.S. delegate: My objective is to reach an agreement. Thank you. Let's hope this is a good omen.

SIMPSON [voice-over]: And, as the meeting began, the omens did indeed seem good. The SALT II arms agreement was negotiated here, and Mr. Kampelman, though now a strong Reaganite, was a pacifist in the Second World War.

Mr. KAMPELMAN: During the meeting, which lasted two hours and 45 minutes, the two sides had a serious and businesslike discussion of the issues.

MacNEIL: The MX missile, which President Reagan says is vital to the Geneva talks, cleared a hurdle in Congress today. In the first of a series of tests the White House has been lobbying hard to win, the House Defense Appropriations Subcommittee approved MX funding by a vote of seven to four. Votes are still pending in the full committee and in the Senate.

In Moscow, thousands of Soviet citizens passed through the Hall of Unions to pay their respect to President Konstantin Chernenko, whose body was lying there in state. They were joined by foreign leaders arriving for tomorrow's funeral, including Vice President George Bush.

In Washington the White House said it welcomed the positive tone of Mr. Gorbachev's acceptance speech yesterday. President Reagan told reporters he's ready to meet the new Soviet leader whenever he can and that Vice President Bush would convey that to Gorbachev.

After this news summary we have a focus documentary report on one of the chief disagreements between the United States and the Soviets, the so-called Star Wars proposal. Judy?

WOODRUFF: President Reagan gave a less-than-wholehearted approval to Egyptian President Mubarak's peace initiative today. After a meeting at the White House Mr. Reagan suggested the Mubarak efforts, while positive, don't go far enough. It was one more sign that U.S. officials are wary of any plan that calls for backdoor negotiations between the United States and the Palestinians before direct talks involving Israel and the other countries in the region get underway. For his part, Mr. Mubarak tried to put the United States position in the best possible light.

HOSNI MUBARAK, President of Egypt: I am pleased to know that we agreed together on the centrality of the Palestinian question to the situation in the Middle East. It is the key to progress and the source of despair and tension. Hence, we should devote ourselves to reaching a just and honorable solution therefore without delay. I believe that no nation is more qualified than America to support the Palestinian people's right to self-determination. I am confident that the United States will act without delay in order to keep the momentum going and to pave the way for further progress.

WOODRUFF: One of President Mubarak's top advisers, who sat in on that White House meeting today, will join us later in the NewsHour.

In Lebanon at least two Israeli foot soldiers were killed in an ambush along their front lines today. Two other soldiers were injured in the attack, that involved a car bomb which detonated ahead of schedule. It occurred near a bridge that crosses the Litani River north of Tyre. This and other attacks on Israeli soldiers came as residents of the Shiite Moslem town of Zuaire were burying their dead from a raid yesterday by Israeli troops in which 37 people were killed.

Meanwhile, at the United Nations, the United States today vetoed a draft resolution in the Security Council to condemn measures by Israel against civilians in southern Lebanon that were alleged to have violated international law. There were fears that the veto might spark terrorist reprisals against American targets in Beirut, but the American ambassador to the U.N., Jeane Kirkpatrick, said although she had received three such threats, she would not be intimidated.

MacNEIL: In Ottawa three Armenian terrorists stormed the Turkish embassy, killed a guard and held 11 people hostage and then surrendered. Here's a report from Don Newman of the CBC.

DON NEWMAN, CBC [voice-over]: It was shortly after 7 a.m. when this rented truck backed up to the gate of the Turkish embassy. Three gunman jumped out. They stormed past the post manned by a security guard, then blew open the embassy's front door. And, while sharpshooters kept their rifles trained on the embassy, negotiations began to get the gunmen to give up. Then more than four hours after the takeover began it was over. With a hostage in front of them, two of the Armenians came to the front door and threw down their weapons. The hostage ran to safety. The gunmen came out with their hands up. Police quickly grabbed them, threw them face-down on the ground and handcuffed them, and all three people were taken into custody by Ottawa city policy.

WILFRED LONGCHAMTS, Staff Inspector, Ottawa Police: There was no force used to bring it to a conclusion.

REPORTER: They finally agreed to surrender?

Inspector LONGCHANTS: They surrendered. They came out on their own.

REPORTER: What finally made them change their minds and --

Inspector LONGCHANTS: Just negotiation.

MacNEIL: The Turkish ambassador, Joss-Kun Keer-Jah, suffered a broken arm and a broken leg in a fall from a window.

In the Persian Gulf war Iraq and Iran attacked each other's cities for the ninth consecutive day since the collapse of an agreement not to do so. Iraqi warplanes rocketed Teheran, where five people were reported killed. The Iranians fired missiles at the Iraqi city of Kirkuk, but there was no report of casualties.

WOODRUFF: In New York word the legal problems of the so-called subway vigilante, Bernhard Goetz are far from over. A judge today signed an order allowing the Manhattan district attorney to resubmit the Goetz case to a grand jury. An earlier grand jury investigation was criticized after Goetz was indicted only on weapons charges. The Manhattan district attorney, Robert Morgenthau, says there is new evidence in the case which he will present to the grand jury next week.

And in Cincinnati today a federal court jury decided that the drug Bendectin, once widely prescribed to pregnant women for nausea, did not cause birth defects when taken in properly prescribed doses. The jury, deliberating in a trial of some 1,000 coordinated lawsuits, decided in favor of Bendectin's manufacturer, Merrell Dow Pharmaceuticals.

MacNEIL: American teenaged girls have higher rates of pregnancy than girls in nearly all other developed nations of the world, according to a report issued today. The Alan Guttmacher Institute said American teenagers also come first in abortions. The greatest difference between U.S. and other countries occurs in girls under 15. The report also said that the United States is the only developed country where teenaged pregnancy has been increasing in recent years. Later in this program we have a documentary report and a discussion on the best ways of reducing teenage pregnancy.

WOODRUFF: Former President Nixon has decided to give up the Secret Service protection he has had ever since he left the White House and to provide his own private protection instead. A spokesman for the former president said his only reason for the move is to save the government money. Refusing official protection will make Mr. Nixon the first former President to do so. It's been estimated that it costs about $3 million a year to provide security for Mr. Nixon. His wife Pat had her Secret Service protection dropped last year at her request.

One of America's most famous conductors died today. Eugene Ormandy, who conducted the Philadelphia Orchestra for a record 44 years, died of pneumonia after an extended cardiac illness, at the age of 85. He had been with the Philadelphia longer than any other modern-day conductor of a U.S. orchestra, made it world famous for the quality of its string sound. Middle East: Pushing for Peace

MacNEIL: As we reported, Egyptian President Mubarak met President Reagan today to talk about new moves towards peace talks in the Middle East. Specifically they discussed the recent Jordanian-Palestinian agreement to form a single delegation for the next round of Middle East peace talks. For our first focus section tonight we explore these developments. The single-delegation agreement came after King Hussein met the PLO's Yasir Arafat last month. Then Egypt's Mubarak met with Hussein and got him to agree that there should be talks between the United States and the Jordanian-Palestinian delegation before formal talks start with Israel. And today President Mubarak asked President Reagan to have the U.S. meet with the Arafat-Hussein approved delegation. Up to now administration officials have been unwilling to meet with an Arab peace delegation that includes the PLO. For more on today's diplomacy we talk to a participant in today's White House meeting, Osama El Baz, a senior foreign policy adviser to President Mubarak. Mr. El Baz was Egypt's observer at last month's Hussein-Arafat meeting. He also led an Egyptian delegation to Israel.

Mr. El Baz, are you going to go back to Cairo disappointed at having had the U.S. turn down the request for the kind of meeting you wanted?

OSAMA EL BAZ: No, I wouldn't say that. For one thing, President Reagan did not turn down our proposal and, second, we knew that this is a long process and it is not an easy thing. It requires several steps, one after the other, consecutively, and we believe we are not insisting on a single formula for that. The dispute is too complicated and it is siery involved. We have thought that we should first break the ice. We should have a start, even a small step, a little step, a limited one. And we thought that a good way to achieve that would be to have some preliminary talks between the U.S. and the Arab side. The Arab side now is basically the Jordanians and the Palestinians.

MacNEIL: Yeah, but may I interrupt you for a moment? Is that not what the White House rejected in these talks today, that the United States doesn't want to sit down with the Arabs -- the Palestinians and the Jordanians without Israel?

Mr. EL BAZ: No, I wouldn't say -- we did not suggest a meeting without Israel. We just said that ultimately there would be direct negotiations involving all the parties including Israel. But to facilitate that we should take some steps because we were afraid of the following. If we wait and see until everybody comes to the negotiating table, we could be spending months without any result. So -- and a step that could encourage and stimulate progress and maintain the momentum as we go, we thought that the U.S. would conduct a preliminary dialogue with the Jordan -- with the Arab delegation. The Arab delegation would be composed of Jordanians and Palestinians. What type of Palestinians, the identity of these Palestinians, is open to question. We can talk about that. So I would not say that -- I wouldn't say that we submitted a definite formal proposal to the administration, and I wouldn't say definitely that the administration turned that down.

MacNEIL: Okay, well, let me ask you this. Mr. Mubarak, in his remarks, said the United States shouldn't miss what he called a golden opportunity for peace. Is the United States missing such an opportunity now?

Mr. EL BAZ: No, we were afraid that everybody would be lax and would be reluctant to move because we know that the U.S. and other parties have had their fingers burned in other disputes and other instances, especially in the Middle East. And people and countries would be reluctant to take a move or to take a risk. It might be too costly. And for that reason we thought that with some encouragement, with some persuasion, we could tell everybody that there is in fact an opportunity; however big or how big this opportunity is remains to be seen. And that the U.S. could actually perform a certain role to utilize this opportunity.

MacNEIL: Is it going to?

Mr. EL BAZ: I believe that the U.S. is seriously considering certain options. We talked about other options as well. We talked about other formulas I cannot reveal now, because they are still in the stage of being formulated and they have not been finalized yet. So we have a variety of options discussed with the U.S., and other parties as well, in the hope that this would stimulate progress. And our impression is that the administration's attitude is positive.

MacNEIL: In other words, they're not just going to sit back and wait until all the parties in the area get together, but the United States is willing to get in and contribute to the momentum. Is that your impression from today's meeting?

Mr. EL BAZ: Yes, this is our impression, because if they sit back and wait the parties might never agree together to come to the negotiating table.

MacNEIL: What do you think is going to happen next, Mr. El Baz?

Mr. EL BAZ: I believe that some sort of a dialogue would be started between the U.S. and Arab parties or party, if you may, and then following that the dialogue would be enlarged to include Israel, and we will sit down and negotiate. This would take a long period of time. It is not an easy dispute to solve, and we know that it will involve years. However, we should start. The important thing is that if we don't start today then the extremists on both sides could have the upper hand.

MacNEIL: How hopeful are you that this is going to get going? I mean, at one point, at the Camp David period many years ago now, that was a sort of high point of optimism. Where are you now in terms of optimism?

Mr. EL BAZ: Well, at Camp David the Jordanians and the Palestinians were third parties. They were outside the process. So it was very difficult for us and for the U.S. to make any prediction as to the future attitude of the Jordanians and the Palestinians. But this time the difference is they are now inside the game and they have stepped in. So they are not a third party. They are one of the main parties, one of the players.

MacNEIL: Well, Mr. El Baz, we appreciate you very much joining us this evening. Thank you.

Mr. EL BAZ: Thank you, Robin. Star Wars: Space Strategies

WOODRUFF: The United States and the Soviet Union, as we reported earlier, at long last sat down to discuss nuclear weapons today amidst great hopes that at some point down the road some sort of agreement may emerge. But for every optimist who sees reason for hope in these Geneva negotiations, there are at least two pessimists ready to write off any such possibility. The most frequent reason given for such a bleak outlook is President Reagan's cherished plan for a strategic defense initiative, better known as Star Wars. The Soviets are calling it the monkey wrench that could throw the arms talks off altogether, while American critics are balking both at its huge potential cost and at the change it represents in American strategic thinking. Who is right, and what is Star Wars anyway? We've put together this background report to tackle these and other questions.

NASA OFFICIAL [January 24, 1985]: Four, three, two, one, ignition and lift-off. Lift-off of Discovery, the first flight totally dedicated to Department of Defense missions.

WOODRUFF [voice-over]: The super-secret mission of thespace shuttle in January, the deployment of a highly sophisticated spy satellite in orbit over the Soviet Union, further assurances of American capability in space. It's part of a new vision of nuclear strategy, a vision of dread for the Soviet Union, a vision of hope for Ronald Reagan.

Pres. REAGAN [February 6, 1985]: Some say it will bring war to the heavens, but its purpose is to deter war in the heavens and on earth. Now, some say the research would be expensive. Perhaps; but it could save millions of lives, indeed, humanity itself.

Lt. Gen. JAMES ABRAMSON, U.S. Air Force: We don't like Star Wars. You all know the President doesn't like it, either, but I say that the Force is indeed with us.

WOODRUFF [voice-over]: The President may not like the name Star Wars, but he cherishes the idea. Right now Star Wars exists only as an artist's concept. It refers to a mostly space-based defense system, a system designed to stop a nuclear attack launched from the Soviet Union. Its weapons could, in theory, destroy Soviet missiles at three different stages during their 25-minute flight to the United States: just after they are launched and are leaving the earth's atmosphere, in their intermediate phase as they fly in space toward the U.S., and, third, as they re-enter the earth's atmosphere en route to their targets. The system depends on hundreds of satellites which, using sophisticated computers, would try to get a fix on the Soviet missiles the instant they were launched. The satellites would send that information either to a space-based battle station, which would try to shoot the missiles down with laser beams, or to submarines ready to pop up so-called X-ray lasers which would find their targets 2,000 miles above the atmosphere. Those missiles that survive the first stage of just a few minutes could be targeted by still another laser system orbiting in space. Finally, the missiles that made it through space would face two more obstacles in their last minutes in the air: a shower of rockets fired from so-called homing-kill vehicles launched from fighter jets: and the last-ditch effort, a burst of rockets fired up from so-called swarm jets deployed on the ground. Each of these systems would attempt to detonate the Russian warheads before they landed. The President thinks this plan will make nuclear weapons obsolete, but former National Security Adviser McGeorge Bundy disagrees with that.

Mr. BUNDY, former National Security Adviser: Nothing in Star Wars as a real proposal will eliminate the danger of assured destruction. That's simply a red herring. There is no system by which, defending your weapons, you can eliminate the possibility that one side or the other or both will one day use them against people or against cities or against the whole society.

WOODRUFF [voice-over]: Scientists critical of the plan say there are other problems. They note that the space weapons would have to be able to tell the real warheads from thousands of dummy decoys the Soviets would surely send. And a way still needs to be found to protect the orbiting satellites from space mines the Soviets could detonate before an attack. Pentagon advocates of Star Wars liken the work needed to solve these problems with the effort to land a man on the moon. But in a recent Senate Foreign Relations hearing, former astronaut John Glenn and former Defense Secretary James Schlesinger scoffed at that idea.

Sen. JOHN GLENN, (D) Ohio: General Abramson was here one day and he likened the whole Star Wars thing to the Apollo project. We just have to decide to go and go ahead. And I told him then that I thought that was nonsense, because when we decided to do the Apollo project we knew all the engineering. If we talk about Star Wars as all we have to do is decide to go and we go, then that's just pure nonsense, because the physics hasn't been invented yet to do Star Wars.

JAMES SCHLESINGER, former Secretary of Defense: It is different from the Apollo program in another way. The moon is basically an inanimate object. In this case we are dealing with a calculating foe on the other side, sometimes a foe that we regard as malevolent, a foe that will be prepared to take countermeasures, very intelligent countermeasures, against whatever it is that we deploy. So the solution of the physics problems on our side, even if [TEXT OMITTED FROM SOURCE] does not solve the problem.

Sen. GLENN: The moon wasn't likely to change course, nor was it likely to shoot back.

WOODRUFF [voice-over]: But former Undersecretary of Defense Richard DeLauer told producer June Cross that the problems are not as monumental as they seem.

RICHARD DeLAUER, former Undersecretary of Defense: The concepts of weaponry have been around for a very, very long time. The real problem is engineering devices that you can accurately point -- how can you manufacture it and have it a rugged system? And then in some cases all we have is devices and we haven't got the final product, which is more engineering than it is physics and invention.

WOODRUFF [voice-over]: Even if the engineering hurdles are overcome, can the system be 100% effective? Paul Nitze, the chief U.S. arms control adviser, says it doesn't have to be.

Amb. PAUL NITZE, U.S. arms control adviser: I don't believe that the target must be 100% effective because the object, as I see it, certainly in this transition phase, is to increase the security of both sides, reduce the danger of nuclear war. And the way in which one can do that is to make it much more difficult for a potential aggressor to anticipate that he could conduct a successful military strategp involving the use of nuclear weapons.

Mr. BUNDY: If you say to American strategic planners that we're going to make it harder for your weapons to penetrate, they don't say, "Well, we'll abandon the weapons." They say, "We'll buy more," or "We'll design better ones." The Soviets will do exactly the same thing. So it's a prescription for an intensified arms race, not for a new level of safety.

WOODRUFF [voice-over]: The Soviets do say that President Reagan's vision will turn into a nightmare of a renewed arms race. Last December the man who has just been named the new leader of the USSR made this warning to a meeting of the British Parliament.

MIKHAIL GORBACHEV, President of USSR [December 17, 1984; through interpreter]: It is especially important to avert the transfer of the arms race to outer space. If that isn't done, then it would be unreal to hope to stop the nuclear arms race.

WOODRUFF [voice-over]: Both Soviet and American critics of Star Wars have said the plan is destabilizing. Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger says he doesn't think so.

HENRY KISSINGER, former Secretary of State: Many of the opponents are making, in my view, two totally contradictory arguments. One, it's ineffective and, two, it's destabilizing. It's going to be one or the other. It cannot be destabilizing if it's ineffective.

WOODRUFF [voice-over]: What is destabilizing, according to many arms control experts, is the experiments both sides are doing now. Last year the Air Force fired this fake Minuteman warhead from Vandenburg Air Force Base in California. Twenty minutes later they fired a missile interceptor from an island in the western Pacific and tracked its progress with a telescope. One hundred miles above the earth the two caught up with each other. Here, using animation and film supplied by the Defense Department, is what happened.

NARRATOR: Five, four, three, two, one, intercept.

WOODRUFF [voice-over]: The Reagan administration says the Soviets are pushing ahead with research in this area, too. Of particular concern is a radar facility the Soviets have built in the middle of Siberia near a place called Krasnoyarsk.

Mr. BUNDY: It's an increasing threat to the ABM treaty, really the programs on both sides. We are engaged in what we call a research program. But it's really bound to look like more than that to the Soviet Union, just as their program looks like more than just research to us.

WOODRUFF [voice-over]: The treaty Bundy is talking about is the anti-ballistic missile treaty. Richard Nixon signed it with Soviet President Leonid Brezhnev in 1972. Henry Kissinger, who had a hand in negotiating the treaty, says he doesn't think it is threatened yet.

Mr. KISSINGER: The real issue will arise when it comes to testing and deployment, which is about three or five years down the road. Yes, the Soviets may build new offensive weapons or they could built a defensive system. As long as they are spending money, I'd rather have them spend it for defense than for offense.

WOODRUFF [voice-over]: But the Soviets say they will spend their military dollars on more nuclear warheads. As the two sides begin arms control negotiations in Geneva, they have threatened to scuttle the talks unless the United States agrees to halt its plans for a Star Wars development. Ambassador Nitze says that's not in the cards.

Amb. NITZE: We are prepared, as I said earlier, to negotiate with them the way in which systems of that kind, whether they're developed by us or by them, could be introduced into the forces of both sides in a way which would increase stability and reduce the risk of war. And that is a perfectly appropriate thing to do.

Mr. BUNDY: The trouble with that is that people -- the other side won't reduce its offensive weapons in the face of that prospect of a new U.S. defensive system. It just won't happen.

Mr. KISSINGER: A conventional agreement with present technology is largely irrelevant. We either get a fundamental breakthrough in the way the two sides approach the issue of strategic nuclear weapons or they cannoo complain if we take care of our defense in the best -- in the way we judge best.

WOODRUFF: U.S. arms experts agree that the hardest task facing the American negotiators in Geneva is convincing their Soviet counterparts of the wisdom of President Reagan's vision. Starting this Thursday the Americans will hold briefings on Star Wars for the Soviets to try to do just that. Robin?

MacNEIL: Still to come on the NewsHour tonight, a documentary report on teenage pregnancy and a discussion of whether one answer is more or less sex education in schools.

This is pledge week on public television, and we're going to take a short break now while your local public television station asks for your support. Your pledges help keep programs like the MacNeil-Lehrer NewsHour on the air. We'll be back shortly with our focus section on teenage pregnancy.

[pledge week intermission] Teen Pregnancies

MacNEIL: Finally tonight, we look at teenage pregnancy and some new evidence about why the problem in this country is so great. As we reported earlier, a new report released today found that the rate of pregnancy among American teenagers is the highest in the Western world -- 96 births for every 1,000 girls in the 15-to-19 age group. The report, by the Alan Guttmacher Institute, a research group, compared the U.S. to 36 other developed countries, and it found that the countries with the lowest teen pregnancy rates were also those with the most liberal attitudes toward sex education and contraception. This comes at a time when many conservatives, including those in the Reagan administration, argue that family planning programs are the cause of, not the solution for, teen pregnancy. In a moment we'll hear more of that debate. But first we have a background report on the problem and what's being done about it in one midwestern city, St. Paul, Minnesota. The report is from Carol Levinson of public station KTCA, Minneapolis-St. Paul.

CAROL LEVINSON, KTCA [voice-over]: Like an ever-increasing number of teenaged girls across the country, Denise Tebbe became a mother before she finished high school. Two years ago she was struggling to raise her two-year-old son Scottie as a single parent.

DENISE TEBBE, teenaged mother: I didn't grow up in a, I guess, in a very happy home. And I just want to make sure that Scottie is going to grow up in a happy home even if he doesn't have a dad.

SCOTTIE: Dad!

LEVINSON [voice-over]: After she had Scottie, Denise wanted to share her experience with other teenagers to help them avoid the situation she found herself in. She spoke to many high school classes about the realities of motherhood.

Ms. TEBBE: When I had Scottie, when I went into the hospital to have Scottie, the second night he was born I asked if I could keep him in my room with me and they said I could, but it got to be 11 o'clock and I was going out of my mind. He's crying, what do I do with him? So I called the nursery up and had them take him back down to the nursery. When I got home and he was crying there was no nursery to call, and you know it was kind of a shock, because here I thought I was going to have this baby that I could dress up in cute little clothes and it was going to be just like playing house. And I found out real quick that it's not like playing house.

LEVINSON [voice-over]: Like Denise was several years ago, these girls are now about to become teenaged mothers. They're a part of a special program in the St. Paul public schools called AGAPE, which stands for Adolescent Girls and Pregnancy Education. It was started in the 1950s as a maternity home program for girls from rural Minnesota who were sent away to the Twin Cities to have their babies. Its primary mission now is to offer education and support through the pregnancy and prevent the girl from dropping out of school. School social worker Cynthia Loveland listens to the girls' stories about their pregnancies.

CYNTHIA LOVELAND, social worker: Some will say, for instance, "I was sexually active for two years and I didn't get pregnant, so therefore -- without contraception. So therefore I thought I couldn't get pregnant." And then some will say the reverse, you know. "I only did it once or twice, so how could I possibly get pregnant doing that?" So I think generally teenagers just have a different way of thinking than adults do, which to me suggests that we have to have a different way of teaching them, too. And so I think even sometimes when teenagers have had sex education, it hasn't been of the nature that they can really use.

LEVINSON [voice-over]: Much of the controversy about sex education centers on that fact. Even if they had some knowledge, they didn't use it. Barb Simon remembers her own experience.

BARB SIMON, pregnant teen: You know, I knew about birth control and I knew about diaphragm. I knew about this and that. I just didn't take it. My fault.

LEVINSON: What would you say to people who say kids really don't need to get sex education, that if you give kids sex education it's encouraging them to have sex?

Ms. SIMON: That's not true. They need it. They do. Even though I knew about it, I think if I would have had somebody to say, "Hey, you can get pregnant, you know. Don't think it's just in your head. You can get pregnant," I think I would have stuck on birth control pills or something. I think it's a good idea.

LEVINSON [voice-over]: Minnesota State Representative Paul Thiede is a father of eight children. He is one of those who believe giving teenagers like Barb more information about sex breeds more sexual activity.

PAUL THIEDE, Minnesota State Representative: The sort of trickle-down theory as it applies to alcohol and drug abuse I think also applies in this instance as well, where if there is more discussion, more talking about it, more activities in the sense of a teaching experience, there is going to be more susceptibility being entwined into that activity. And I think this is one of the cases where the morality of our society ought to be vested with the parents of those children whom they are responsible for.

LEVINSON [voice-over]: Sex educator Judy Palmer agrees that parents play an important role in teaching their children about sex. But she feels the classroom experience enhances rather than detracts from communication in the family.

JUDY PALMER, sex education teacher: And many people do criticize the schools as being the place for education on human sexuality. I agree. It should be addressed at home and it should be addressed at church, and in fact I emphasize that to the students in the classroom. However, as I said, historically the homes and the churches have not been addressing the issue or it's been very difficult. It's hard for parents to talk to their children about sex. We come in and make it a very safe environment and a very open environment and the students feel real free to talk about things they've never talked about with anyone else before.

[to students] There are so many ways to prevent pregnancy. Why are teenaged girls still getting pregnant?

STUDENT: Peer pressure from their friends? Like kids, like their friends saying that they should do it and everything. They don't really talk about anything. They just say how real neat it is and everything like that.

LEVINSON [voice-over]: In addition to classroom sex education, health clinics offering prenatal care and birth control counseling operate in four St. Paul high schools. The first of their kind in the nation, the maternal infant care clinics offer comprehensive health services to students who would not otherwise have access to the health care system. Barbara Taylor is the clinic's nurse.

BARBARA TAYLOR, health clinic nurse: Well, last year there were 67 pregnancies at this school. That's out of a total school population of 1,800. So about 7% of the girls in this school became pregnant last year. Now, we didn't see all of those girls but we did see a majority of them.

LEVINSON [voice-over]: Taylor says the main accomplishments of the clinic have been to dramatically reduce the number of pregnancies in the school over the years. And for those who do getpregnant, they are able, with good prenatal care, to have healthier babies and to prevent having a second baby before they graduate. About 80% of the students seen in the maternal-infant care clinics finish their high school educations.

[interviewing] What do you say to critics who say that birth control has no place in the schools and that giving kids birth control is encouraging them to have sex?

Ms. TAYLOR: Well, first of all, I'd say that 95% of the kids we see are already having sex, so we haven't encouraged them to do anything. And I'd say that because of the epidemic of adolescent pregnancy we know that there's a problem and we know that there's a risk. And although -- you know, I'd like to see this prevented at a much earlier age, the kids don't get into this situation. I would prefer that kids remain abstinent until they're adults. But since that isn't happening, I feel that we have to deal with the situation the way it is and do whatever we can.

LEVINSON [voice-over]: Barb Simon has learned a lot about dealing with her situation the way it is, and she knows the toughest part is yet to come.

Ms. SIMON: I'm not really afraid of the pain. I'm just kind of afraid about the responsibility. I know it's a lot. You know, like people will say, "Oh, I can't wait until after I have my baby," you know, and I say that, too, but if I really think about it, this is the easy part. Once it's here, I mean, that's when the pain is going to start. Right there, for the next, you know, who knows how many years. That's when it all begins.

MacNEIL: For more on today's teen pregnancy report, we have Jeannie Rosoff, president of the Alan Guttmacher Institute, which sponsored the study. On the other side is a long-time critic of family planning programs, Robert Marshall, of the American Life Lobby in Washington. Before we come to your report, Mrs. Rosoff, what did you think of the school program, health clinics and birth control clinics, in the schools, which the director there said had dramatically reduced pregnancies in that school?

JEANNIE ROSOFF: Well, from what I saw it seemed like a really warm, humane, very reasonable program which emphasized, I think, the importance of parenthood and the difficulty, and perhaps the pleasures and rewards of planned parenthood, and at the same time I think gave emphasis to prevention of unwanted pregnancy, it seemed to me in a measured manner.

MacNEIL: Mr. Marshall, what did you think of that program?

ROBERT MARSHALL: Well, this is another attempt to bring about a contraceptive mentality in the United States and its practice. The facts are, even according to Dr. Guttmacher, who was with the Planned Parenthood for awhile, that as you give birth control information to teenagers, he acknowledged in 1963, that you're going to increase the frequency of sexual relations among teens. And Dr. Michael Halberstam in 1970 also said when contraceptive use spreads throughout a society you're going to lower the age of first intercourse and increase unwanted pregnancy.

MacNEIL: Is that so? Did Dr. Guttmacher say that, and --

Ms. ROSOFF: I don't know if he said that. It would be 22 years ago, and I wasn't around at the time. And I think the situation in the world has changed. One of the things which is apparent is all the industrial societies are going through the same trends in which, in fact, sexual activity does start earlier than it used to, largely, I think, because young people mature early. They're healthy. They mature early. The needs of education require that they stay in school at least until the end of high school, and perhaps establish a job or a career, save a little money, get married, start having children, and it is a long, long period of time, perhaps, between 13 and 25 in which young people are obviously sorely tempted to enter in sexual relations, and in fact they do, as we know.

MacNEIL: Do you agree with that, Mr. Marshall, that young people are more sexually active just because of the reasons we were just given?

Mr. MARSHALL: Well, they're more sexually active in the presence of the very programs that her organization, Planned Parenthood, has been operating for about 13, 14 years with heavy government subsidy.

MacNEIL: And they would not be without them?

Mr. MARSHALL: Well, when you go back to the only survey of sexual activity in the United States that was taken, that was the Kinsey Report, in the late 1940s and it even was unrepresentative of the United States, the frequency of sexual intercourse was lower then among what's been reported in her own magazine, in Family Planning Perspectives, in the same group that has studied in her clinics.

MacNEIL: What do you think, what is the reason you believe that this country has a much bigger problem or higher rate of teenage pregnancy and abortion than other comparable countries?

Ms. ROSOFF: Well, frankly, we didn't know, which is why we undertook this study, which we have just finished. But we're struck by the fact that if you look at countries in Western Europe in which sexual activity among teenagers is similar to that of the United States, sometimes even starts earlier than in the United States, we were struck by the fact that clearly there were fewer pregnancies in those countries, fewer abortions and fewer births. And, obviously, something different must be happening there.

MacNEIL: A country like, for example?

Ms. ROSOFF: Well, the fact, we looked at 36 countries, but we looked in detail at five outside of the United States: Canada, which is very close to the United States in behavior, France, England, Holland and Sweden. All of these countries have rates of sexual activities which are very, very similar to the U.S. Yet they have dramatically different results of the sexual activity.

MacNEIL: So why?

Ms. ROSOFF: Well, one of the things we looked at is exactly that question. The thing which is very striking and surprised us is that openness about sex, a lot of discussion in the media, not only in the schools but in the media, in the newspapers, not only showing fancy ads about jeans that titillate people but real frank discussion of sexual matters, that this was associated with lower rates of teenage pregnancy, lower rates of abortion, lower rates of teenage birth.

MacNEIL: Mr. Marshall, why do you think this country has such -- first of all, do you agree with the report this country has the highest rates in the developed world?

Mr. MARSHALL: I will accept that for purposes of arguing a case.

MacNEIL: Then why do you think it's so?

Mr. MARSHALL: In part -- not in part. I would say almost totally because of programs like what Planned Parenthood has. They will give birth control to virgins, and this was acknowledged by Dr. Guttmacher in 1970 before a House and Senate subcommittee. She mentions the frequency and initiation of sexual activity as being comparable. I would suggest you read your own report here, where you state that these data should be interpreted cautiously, but you acknowlege the difference in pregnancy rates between Netherlands and Sweden may also be partly attributable to the older age of sexual initiation in the Netherlands. Youdon't even have data on sexual intercourse prior to age 17 in the Netherlands; you have it in the United States because of programs like yours.

MacNEIL: Do I understand you that you're saying that the rate of pregnancy is higher in this country because of programs like Mrs. Rosoff's?

Mr. MARSHALL: That's correct.

Ms. ROSOFF: Let me clarify it. I do not run clinics. I do not have a program. We have a research institution in which we're trying to be as objective as we can about those trends. Some of these trends are very distressing, and I understand as a parent that, you know, I have the same reaction that most parents have. We want to protect our children. To some degree we want to keep them to be children longer and we want to keep them from harm. So I would be fairly conservative about these issues, but we try to look objectively at the factors which seem to influence the outcome of sexual activity in other countries. Sweden, for example, sexual activity starts quite earlier than the United States. And these teenagers seem to be able to use contraception very effectively and really while the government has made a very sizeable effort in Sweden to lower the rates of teenaged pregnancy, it has been successful. I mean, one very interesting fact is in 1975 Sweden liberalized its abortion law, which was liberal before, but now abortions are free in Sweden and they're really on demand. The government was very concerned that this would result in large increase in abortions among teenagers, And the government embarked on a very important campaign not only of sex education but of linking, a little bit like in St. Paul, clinics with educational programs, and it seems to have been very successful.

MacNEIL: Mr. Marshall, what do you think is the solution to the teenage pregnancy problem in this country?

Mr. MARSHALL: Well, to get the federal government out of the bedroom with organizations like Planned Parenthood. They are both facilitating and initiating social change in this area, and that has been the problem.

MacNEIL: How do you stop teenagers getting pregnant?

Mr. MARSHALL: You give a good example. The example in her own clinics that are run by Planned Parenthood, 90% of the counselors there and the practitioners are on birth control.

MacNEIL: What is a good example?

Mr. MARSHALL: Abstinence before marriage.

MacNEIL: Abstinence before marriage.

Mr. MARSHALL: That's correct. Fidelity in marriage.

MacNEIL: All right, thank you.

Ms. ROSOFF: Well, that seems to me like, you know, it's perfectly fine, except that the behavior of other human beings do not seem to conform with the ideal and if it doesn't conform with the ideal then what do you do?

MacNEIL: We have to leave it there. Thank you both very much for joining us. Judy?

WOODRUFF: Turning now to a recap of today's top stories, U.S. and Soviet diplomats met at Geneva to begin new arms control talks. World leaders are headed to Moscow for the funeral of Soviet party leader Konstantin Chernenko tomorrow. Vice President Bush will represent the United States. And in Washington President Reagan met with Egyptian President Mubarak. Reagan said efforts to get Middle East peace talks underway are encouraging but haven't gone far enough. And the Reagan administration won the first round in the battle in CoxGgress over the MX missile. A House subcommittee voted to fund 21 of the strategic missiles.

Good night, Robin.

MacNEIL: Good night, Judy. That's our NewsHour tonight. We'll be back tomorrow night. I'm Robert MacNeil. Good night.