The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

JIM LEHRER: Good evening. I'm Jim Lehrer. On the NewsHour tonight, Ray Suarez explores the new world without wires; Margaret Warner looks at the big Yahoo hacking attack; Gwen Ifill updates the growing troubles in Indonesia; and Terence Smith with John Feinstein examines the golfing miracles of Tiger Woods. It all follows our summary of the news this Tuesday.

NEWS SUMMARY

JIM LEHRER: Something may have broken off Alaska Airlines Flight 261 seconds before it crashed. Investigators said today radar detected such an event as the jetliner plunged into the sea off Southern California. The chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board said the job now is to find the object. He spoke at a news conference in Washington.

JAMES HALL, Chairman, NTSB: I have instructed assets of the United States Navy to search an other of the ocean where we believe that something, we believe something that would have departed the aircraft at that point could have landed which is about four miles from the main wreckage site. This of course will be a difficult task for the United States Navy complicated by the fact that we do not know whether something actually did separate from the aircraft.

JIM LEHRER: Hall also said the flight data recorder shows the plane fell 7,000 feet before pilots briefly regained control. Then it pitched nose-down, rolled over and plunged 18,000 feet into the ocean in just over a minute. Another Alaska Airlines plane had trouble last night, over San Francisco. Sparks erupted from an engine moments after the jetliner took off. It turned around and made an emergency landing. No one was hurt, and it was not clear what caused the problem. The plane was an MD-80, part of the same series as the one that crashed last week. Overseas today, hijackers holding an Afghan airliner near London released another hostage. Police said he appeared to be ill. He was the ninth person freed since the plane landed in Britain Sunday. At least 150 are still onboard. The plane was hijacked early Sunday after takeoff in Afghanistan. British authorities would not say what the hijackers want, but they warned the standoff could last for days. Israeli warplanes bombed Lebanon overnight. We have this report from Kevin Dunn of Independent Television News.

KEVIN DUNN: The smoldering wreckage of a power station outside Beirut, one of three destroyed by Israeli warplanes overnight. The attacks were the heaviest inside Lebanon for eight months, and were in response to the killing by Hezbollah guerrillas of Israeli soldiers. As many as 15 Lebanese civilians were injured in the air raid, though Israeli commanders making public cockpit video footage maintain their pilots had hit their targets with precision. And they have threatened more air strikes if Hezbollah retaliates. Israel's prime minister, visiting people in bomb shelters on the border, said the air raids were justified because of Hezbollah's failure to keep to military agreements.

EHUD BARAK, Prime Minister, Israel: Israel is not ready to accept unilateral violation of this agreement, and whatever it will take to defend our citizens, we will do it, as would do in the same situation any three world governments.

KEVIN DUNN:But the sudden upsurge in cross-border violence is threatening to derail the delicate peace process in the Middle East.

AMR MOUSSA, Foreign Minister, Egypt: The Israeli aggression against the Lebanese civilian installations creates another negative aspect around the peace process-- creates a lot of clouds, dark clouds.

KEVIN DUNN: The latest violence in Lebanon, breaking months of relative quiet, mean the crucial peace talks between Israel and Syria, which broke down last month, are unlikely to resume soon.

JIM LEHRER: Israel had called on Syria to rein in Hezbollah, but Syria says it does not control the guerrillas. The Internet's most popular site was back in business today after hackers shut it down yesterday. They flooded Yahoo's web directory with electronic messages. As a result, regular users could not access the site for several hours. There was no claim of responsibility and no message explaining the attack. We'll have more on this story later in the program tonight. Republicans in Delaware held their presidential primary today. George W. Bush and Steve Forbes were the main competitors for the state's 12 delegates. New Hampshire winner John McCain did not campaign in Delaware. He concentrated instead on South Carolina. The primary there is February 19. Also today, Bush attacked McCain's claim to be a reformer. He said the Senator showed his true nature in a TV ad accusing Bush of negative campaigning. But McCain said Bush is breaking his own promise to run a positive campaign. And that's it for the News Summary tonight. Now it's on to our wireless future; hacking Yahoo; trouble in Indonesia; and the amazing Tiger Woods.

FOCUS - GOING WIRELESS

JIM LEHRER: Ray Suarez reports on the growing world without wires.

RAY SUAREZ: Financially these CEO brokered the biggest deal in the world, the world's largest cell phone company, Britain's Vodaphone announced plans to acquire Mannesmann, the leading wireless firm in Europe, for a record $180 billion. Although Vodafone's CEO Christopher Gent concedes that it's rare for a German company of this size to be taken over by a foreign competitor, he said Germany will benefit from the deal.

CHRIS GENT, CEO, Vodafone: I think the German public have understood that we've got constructive and created purpose here. I think it's actually a victory in the sense that Germany is developing, evolving and you've got to say that the share price that we are delivering to Mannesmann shareholders with the management supporting it, I think this is very, very good news for Germans.

RAY SUAREZ: Vodafone is a relatively young company, only 18 years old. It owns Britain's largest mobile phone network and recently purchased U.S. mobile carrier Air Touch. It also is allied with Bell Atlantic in the U.S. and multimedia company Vivendi in France. Mannesmann began as a steel pipe maker in the 1800s based in Dusseldorf. Together the two companies have a presence in four continents and have 42 million subscribers or 10 percent of the world's mobile phone users. The merger comes at a time of phenomenal growth in the world of mobile phones. Today there are more mobile phones than personal computers and the market is growing by some estimates at 50 percent a year. A third of people in North America use mobile phones. The rate is even twice that among some European countries. For the wireless phone industry, it's not just the numbers that are promising. It's the new applications. Today so-called web phones can surf the Internet, allowing access to hotel reservations, stock quotes and sports scores. Companiesare promising even more innovations in the future.

RAY SUAREZ: For more we're joined by Bob Egan, vice president and research director at Gartner Group, a global Internet technology consulting firm, and Paul Saffo, director of the Institute for the Future, a technology forecasting think tank.

Bob Egan, during the sometimes rough negotiations over this merger, Vodafone had to raise its bid per share $150. Why do they want Mannesmann so badly?

BOBEGAN, Gartner Group: Because vowed phones understands they need to make it a whole lot easier for people to buy mobile phone service, with this acquisition, Vodafone becomes a one-stop shop for consumers worldwide. And given that these subscribers are going to be on Vodafone's network, they will -- accessing voice services today, data services tomorrow and because Vodafone owns so much network, they'll not have to wholesale air time from other carriers and they're not going to have to pay interface costs that their competitors are going to have to pay, thereby lowering their overall cost basis.

RAY SUAREZ: Does it mean, though, that it's going to get any easier to do that kind of things in the United States? They have one technical standard in Europe. Here we have a patchwork quilt of providers, places you can call and places you can't call.

BOG EGAN: Yeah. That's true, one of the things happening here in the United States is we're beginning to see convergence occurring within these networks. We have really three major wireless standards, as they are coming together into something known as third generation wireless, this is going to allow Vodafone to begin influencing how that, you know, evolution is going to take place and demanding larger discounts from its suppliers on behalf of its consumers, lower handset prices, thereby increasing its margin and also being able to pass these cost savings on to their consumers.

RAY SUAREZ: Paul Saffo, what the two big companies, they were already big companies were working out the details, they were also fighting over that French company, Vivendi, News Corps, Murdoch's company was involved. You heard talk about AOL Europe and Yahoo Europe, why is so much of this negotiation about content when we're dealing with two companies that supply you the phones that you can call people on?

PAUL SAFFO, Institute for the Future: Well there, is a tremendous dynamic going on here. You know, at moments it feels like that old Irish saying is it a private fight or can anyone join? In the short run this is about global dial tone and above all it's about people connecting with other people via phone. In the long run, though, it's going to be machines connecting with other machines on the behave of their human owners, and a key part that have is going to be rich content and new kinds ever experiences.

RAY SUAREZ: So it's going to be more than just being able to call somebody when you are in your car or walking down the street? Why is it that there is all that emphasis on getting these other services on to a telephone?

PAUL SAFFO: Well, everyone loves the Internet today. But the problem with the Internet is the only place you can get it is at your desk and your desk is where everybody is spending ever less time. People want the Internet to follow them around wherever they are and that means wireless and in the short run Internet access via phone but also by a galaxy of other devices. And doing this kinds of a deal gives them the global dial tone and the muscle to start positioning themselves for the next wave of Internet.

RAY SUAREZ: So, Bob Egan, are they creating the means for people to live out desires that they already have or creating means to create new desires -- I mean things that never occurred to you and then you can't do without it once you have the ability to do it?

BOB EGAN: Well, it actually depends on what region you are in. In Europe there are three times as many people that use mobile phones as there are people using PC's connected to the Internet. In the United States, there are about as many people that use their phones as they do connect to the Internet. So in Europe, it's become a way of life, and in Europe, in the United States, it's become more of a convenience. So we'll see access to these services in a more target market and so it depends what region you are talking about.

RAY SUAREZ: Because I'm trying to follow the growth of this business like anybody else. I'm seeing more people on the streets with these phones and so on. I'm trying to figure out whether this is a mass business that wants to become as ubiquitous as your home telephone or a business that really is concentrating on the high end user, that is going to do things like check sports scores or buy a stock on the back of their telephone.

BOB EGAN: That's the magic question. In the United States it has been a convenience item, but it's also true that people's lives are being becoming more complex and the mobile phone and access to the internet services in those mobile phone market are really something that creates free time and convenience. And so you know, what you are, -- if you think about the kind of E. Commerce excitement around Internet - you know - PC-based access to the Internet, wait till you see the kinds of excitement that is going to occur where people are making E. Commerce transactions over mobile phones.

RAY SUAREZ: Paul Saffo, maybe you can help us out here. So much of the broad band argument has to do with streaming video and rich graphics and great colors. And then the largest merger in the history of the world and we're talking about a one and a half by three inch screen on the back of a telephone in black and white, ugly graphics, just text, help us out here?

PAUL SAFFO: You can do a lot with that screen. Imagine it's 5:15 in the afternoon in San Francisco. You are walking down Sutter Street. You happen to have a cell phone in your pocket. In the next 12 months all cell phones made in this country will be required to have a position location system in it, so your phone will know where you are and be able to tell who you are calling. It's 5:15 your phone chirps and it's a message chirp. You look at your screen and you go, oh, that's interesting. And what it is, is an electronic coupon from a Chinese restaurant a block and a half away in your direction of travel; it says if you get in here in the next ten minutes, you get 50% off at dinner.

RAY SUAREZ: I'm not so sure that is a good thing. So you will be able to be tracked in fact, marketers will know where you are as long as your phone is on?

PAUL SAFFO: It will be consensual. It's really intended for 911 service. But you'll be able to opt into all sorts of new kinds of services.

RAY SUAREZ: And cost, will that start to come down because a lot of people are standing at the threshold of having their own wireless phone in the United States, not sure whether to jump in because of the cost.

PAUL SAFFO: Well, the cost is dropping but bob was right about this back becoming a mass phenomenon. If you go to Stockholm today over 95% of people under 25 are carrying phones, it is a mass phenomenon at the current cost. You just can't be a member of polite society and be 20 something in Stockholm unless you have a phone. We're all headed that way.

RAY SUAREZ: Or impolite society if you are in a movie theater or restaurant --

PAUL SAFFO: That's why we have vibrating battery packs.

RAY SUAREZ: Bob Egan, what has to happen in the United States? Is it a business barrier? Is it a technical barrier? What needs to happen for mobile wireless communication in the United States to start moving down the road toward this tremendous market penetration in Europe?

BOB EGAN: Well, it's actually not a technical barrier. It is a focus barrier by the wireless providers to realize that, you know, the Internet can drive a lot of services for E. Commerce providers to a very qualified audience. As Paul was alluding to, you know, people know a lot about mobile phone users. Right. You have to qualify from a credit standpoint - you know -- the networks will be able to locate you and they will be able to track the kind of buying habits that you have. So really in the United States, it's more focusing on looking at the mobile phone user as a very qualified distribution and retail outlet for wireless E. Commerce services.

RAY SUAREZ: So what does the Vodafone-Mannesmann deal mean in the use since the newly emerged company has an alliance with Bell Atlantic, one of the biggest players in the United States?

BOB EGAN: That's right. In fact, the combination of Bell Atlantic, GTE and the Vodafone Air Touch properties make the Bell Atlantic arrangements the new sheriff in town. You know, this allows people to, you know, have a pretty ubiquitous service to them available for both voice services and wireless Internet services as they bring that new capability in this marketplace to compete against some of the players that have done very well here in the united states like AT&T.

RAY SUAREZ: So either of you guys packing? Do you have wireless on your hip?

PAUL SAFFO: Yes, I'm packing. I carry enough electronics on my person to get nervous in lightning storms.

RAY SUAREZ: Like what?

PAUL SAFFO: Pager, cell phone, I don't have them on me now. I wouldn't want them to go off at this moment.

RAY SUAREZ: Is there a convergence where one of these will eventually become one unit or they're going to have their own discreet uses?

PAUL SAFFO: Absolutely not. There is a divergence, you are going to see a whole range of different kinds of devices for different kinds of occasions.

RAY SUAREZ: Bob.

BOB EGAN: Well, let me show you a couple of those devices: Here is an example of what Paul was talking about. Rather than being a phone, this is a palm pilot. Now this is the most successful palm hand held in the world. They have shipped over 6 million units. So the palm has now been married to a wireless device. As you can see, I have taken, you know, and put some very personal and relevant services. I can get my map. I can get my New England weather. I can get my relevant news and a lot of people are talking about these wireless evolutions as sort of Internet wireless surfing. That is not it at all. What it is is a surgical cut into the Internet for services that are very valuable and very relevant to consumers.

RAY SUAREZ: But why not try to marry that thing that you had in your hand with a phone?

BOB EGAN: Well, let me show you an example of that. I have with me a phone made by a company called Neopoint. Now, here is an example of a phone that provides phone capability but also has access to the worldwide web, and I can buy a book from Amazon.Com. I can access my Yahoo services to get my Yahoo mail or my Yahoo finance or my Yahoo personal news. I can also check flight statuses. In fact, under most circumstances it's more accurate than I've been able to get from the gate agents -- knowing what planes will arrive -- what gate they will arrive at and how late they maybe or do I have to go and make changes and then, you know, do them through the phone.

RAY SUAREZ: Let me quickly double back on a question I tried to get at earlier. Is consumer desire for these services driving their development or our manufacturers trying to create a desire for you to want to find these things out and then giving you the goodies to do it?

BOB EGAN: I think it's a combination of both. We have seen people to some extent like the graphic rich environment when they are sitting behind their PC at home but - you know -- over time a lot of the carriers are beginning to realize that they're getting a lot like drug rehab center managers in that they have a new people out there addicted to the network. They are addicted to things like their E-mail services and information services that are relative to them, whether it's sports, news, weather or whether it's communicating with people at work and friends and so, you know, the carriers are providing that marriage of the desire for people to get at internet based services through devices that are very familiar with them and mobile phones are a very similar device anywhere in the world.

RAY SUAREZ: Bob Egan, Paul Saffo, thanks a lot.

FOCUS - YAHOO! - HACKED!

JIM LEHRER: And speaking of Yahoo, there was a cyberplace attack on Yahoo. And Margaret Warner has that story.

MARGARET WARNER: The popular Internet web site Yahoo crashed for nearly three hours yesterday, falling victim to what the company says was a coordinated attack by computer hackers. Millions of customers use Yahoo to help them search the worldwide web. Yahoo also provides news, weather and other information, and a growing array of customized services, like E-mail and personal calendars. With some 42 million visitors per month, it's the world's second busiest Internet site after America Online. Yesterday, Yahoo said it was suddenly bombarded with millions of bogus requests for information from multiple computers worldwide. This coordinated flood jammed the web site, making it impossible for legitimate users to get through until Yahoo devised a filter to block the phony requests. For more on all this, we're joined by Dan Schrader, vice president of new technology at Trend Micro Inc., the country's third largest maker of anti- virus software, and John Schwartz, technology reporter for the "Washington Post."

Dan Schrader, explain this a little more for us. How could someone from the outside penetrate, do this to a site as large and apparently sophisticated as Yahoo.

DAN SCHRADER, Trent Micro, Inc.: Penetrate is the wrong term. Its hackers need not have been very sophisticated. You know, one of my favorite urban legends is that the worldwide web is designed to withstand a nuclear blast. That may be, but it's not designed to survive infinite amounts of traffic, and it's very easy for one computer to generate and awful lot of traffic to program it in the right way. Well, there are tools out there that kids, hackers, crackers, vandals can download that allows them to generate a lot of traffic not just on one computer but on many computers and, in a coordinated fashion, point all that traffic at one site. That's exactly what happened.

MARGARET WARNER: All right. How much traffic are we talking about?

DAN SCHRADER: Talking about in theneighborhood of a gig a byte of data per second.

MARGARET WARNER: What is that?

DAN SCHRADER: That's equivalent to say the entire Encyclopedia Britannica being thrown at a site every second. It's a huge amount of data.

MARGARET WARNER: And how can one hacker, even a group of hackers coordinate - I mean, Yahoo said it came from many computers all over the world at the same time.

DAN SCHRADER: This is the type of a attack called the distributed denial of service attack. And what they apparently did - and this is still speculation - was they put Trojans software on a lot of different people's computers without them knowing about this. They did this in advance and then they set the computers at the same time and the same place send the data all over to the Yahoo site.

MARGARET WARNER: John Schwartz, do you agree it doesn't take much sophistication to do something like this?

JOHN SCHWARTZ, The Washington Post: Hackers and the people that design intrusion software love to share and the Internet is a place where it's easy to share. Whenever somebody comes up with something new becomes available. If you know what you are looking for you can download it, get the instructions and set it in play yourself.

MARGARET WARNER: So, in other words, the software to do this is right out there for anyone?

JOHN SCHWARTZ: Sure, just like Bill Gates says information at your fingertips. It's a wonderful place.

MARGARET WARNER: Now you in your story in the post this morning you quoted hackers saying they couldn't really believe that a site as large as Yahoo -- that this could be done from the outside.

JOHN SCHWARTZ: They were incredulous. They said the size of the pipe going into this company is so great that any denial of service attack attempt ought to be a statistical blip for them, but in fact if you put enough pipes together you can flood any pipe no matter how big.

MARGARET WARNER: Dan Schrader, how does a company guard against something like this happening?

DAN SCHRADER: Well, it's nearly impossible to defend. Yahoo is famous for its size of the pipe going in, for how well they bulletproof their network, and I think that's exactly why they were targeted. I think there is a group of hackers or crackers out there, call them what you will, who are patting themselves on the back and boosting that they are the ones who took down Yahoo. We are depending on everyone running safe computing practices and good computer security in all of our computers. And, of course, most people don't do that, don't think about it until after the fact. What we need to do is we need to think about putting computer security tools right on the backbone of the Internet so that Internet service providers like America Online or US West or Sprint or others will scan all the data coming and going for malicious code. That will make it hard for these hackers or crackers to put their malicious software on a lot of people's computers and to do these coordinated attacks.

MARGARET WARNER: But to ask a very elementary question, whenever I boot up my compute terse says scanning for viruses and so on. Isn't that part and parcel of most services now?

DAN SCHRADER: Well, it's part and parcel of most personal computers. Unfortunately, we are seeing about three hundred new viruses and Trojans and other malicious tools written every month. That means two or three days after you've uploaded your anti-virus software it's already out of date for a dozen new viruses. And I'm using viruses in the broader, generic term. That is why we can't rely on running desktop virus protection.That's why we need to be putting tools for detecting these malicious programs not on the desktop but at the E-mail server at the Internet gateway or, even better, out to the Internet service provider.

MARGARET WARNER: Okay. John Schwartz, how common is that kind of attack and what is usually the motive?

JOHN SCHWARTZ: Well, the denial of service attack has been around for several years, and they are very common. Cert at Carnegie Melons says they get daily calls on the denial of service attack. The distributed attack, which is where you get it coming in from lots and lots of computers, has only been observed since late last year. They are becoming -- they are showing up more and more. But what interests Cert what is a great technological advance this is for the folks that want to do mischief. And you ask why they want to do it. It is to do mischief. This is this is the same basic sense that underlies a kid going up, ringing someone's doorbell and running away. They've found a way to do it several million time minutes. And then they get to brag about it. Someone is going to be dining off of this experience for months.

MARGARET WARNER: And not caught?

JOHN SCHWARTZ: Could happen.

MARGARET WARNER: How hard is it, Dan Schrader, to track down the perpetrators of this?

DAN SCHRADER: It is very difficult. Is there a lot of tools they can use, tree freely public tools to hide all traces of where they came from. And, again, the computers that were sending out these streams probably had no idea -- the people who owned those computers had no idea their computers were used for their attack.

MARGARET WARNER: But we're told - in fact, in Ray's segment we had an echo that every click we make, everything we do on the Internet someone is tracking. Why doesn't that apply in even, I know what you are saying. They use other robot computers to attack the target, why can't that all be tracked?

DAN SCHRADER: To some extent it can be. When you connect to the internet our compute -- your computer is given an IP address. And a sophisticated tracker can change that information so misinformation is being sent out over the Internet or they can simply go over to a public library and or cyber caf and simply borrow a computer.

MARGARET WARNER: So it's normal people like us, John Schwartz, that doesn't know how to cover their tracks - but it's really quite easy?

JOHN SCHWARTZ: And some people who are fairly sophisticated don't cover their tracks well either. What you hope for is somebody who is smart but stupid like the fellow that loaded the Melissa virus. He left a few traces. The fellows doing stock scams out of the University of California Library, they left a few traces, and so law enforcement officials who do this sort of thing look for the stupid slip and hope it's there, it might not be.

MARGARET WARNER: Dan Schrader, finally, Yahoo yesterday and you made the same point yesterday when I used the wrong word in my first question about penetrating Yahoo stressed that the hackers didn't get any data, for instance if you had your personal calendar, your E-mail on Yahoo, they didn't get into that. But if you have the ability to do what happened yesterday, can penetration real penetration and theft of data be far behind? Are they totally different kinds of operations?

DAN SCHRADER: Well, they are different kinds of operations. They are done for different purposes. Just recently a major music site on the Internet had something like 300,000 credit card numbers stolen off their site and the hacker was trying to blackmail them saying they would release the numbers if they didn't pay up. So, yes, this kind of thing happens --happens all the time but in this case it appears no data was stolen and no one's personal information was taken.

MARGARET WARNER: But, I mean, should people who are mostly worried not only about being denied access to their favorite site but worried that information they might store on that site, John, should they be troubled here that the next step could be get into our personal calendar in Yahoo?

JOHN SCHWARTZ: Well, I think there are enough stories about intrusion to make people think twice about leaving a credit card number with a company on-line. A lot of companies allow you to do it one at a time -- that is one time only credit card use. And folks who are worried about that can simply opt for the services that offer that kind of security as opposed to storing it on the site. You can get your credit card stolen in a restaurant as well, so most of us opt to life dangerously and conveniently.

MARGARET WARNER: All right. Well, thank you very much Dan Schrader and John Schwartz.

JIM LEHRER: Still to come on the NewsHour tonight, more trouble in Indonesia, and the Tiger Woods miracle.

UPDATE - TROUBLED ISLANDS

JIM LEHRER: Gwen Ifill has our Indonesia update.

GWEN IFILL: The violence in East Timor last summer riveted the world, ending only after international peace keeping forces stepped in. The toll was dramatic, hundreds killed by pro-government militias, refugees and the otherwise homeless numbering more than 100,000 and nearly all of East Timor's building left burned or ransacked. United Nations investigators say the military was implicated in the violence. It erupted after residents of the former Portuguese colony voted overwhelmingly for independents from Indonesian occupation. The Indonesian army -- criticized by foreign governments for failing to stop the killing and arson -- ultimately withdrew. United Nations troops from Australia, Asia, North America and Europe restored a semblance of stability to East Timor, but violence continues elsewhere in this 17,000 island nation. In Aceh, one of Indonesia's richest provinces pro-independence demonstrations have led to bloodshed. In Moluccas and in the resort destination, Lombok, near Bali, clashes between Muslims and Christians have taken the lives of 1,300 people in the past year. The violence is the most dramatic challenge to Indonesia's first democratic government in 45 years. Indonesia -- with a population of 210 million -- is the fourth most populous country in the world and the world's predominantly Muslim nation. Its new president, Abdu Rahman Wahid, a Muslim scholar, was elected by the national assembly in October. Wahid, among his first official acts, shuffled top military commanders, among them Army General Wiranto; he was replaced by a civilian then named security minister instead. But last month Indonesian human rights investigators identified Wiranto -- who like many Indonesians uses only one name -- as one of 3 people responsible for crimes against humanity in East Timor. Wiranto led the army, which is known as the TNI.

DJOKO SUGIANTO, Indonesian Human Rights Investigator: (speaking through interpreter) General Wiranto -- as commander of the TNI at that time -- is a person who must be held responsible.

GWEN IFILL: Wahid on two weeks of state visits to Europe called for Wiranto's resignation but in subsequent newspapers accounts from Rome over the weekend Wahid clouded the resignation issue, saying he trusted and would forgive Wiranto. The general has denied involvement in the violence and has refused to step down and his attorney acknowledged a strange relationship with a president o who is popularly known as Gus Dur.

ADNAN BUYUNG NASUTION, Wiranto's Attorney: The way President Gus asked him to resign publicly, the statement abroad, you know, that is also not a problem. Everything is very humiliating to General Wiranto.

GWEN IFILL: This political tug of war has sparked new worries abroad and at the United Nations. U.S. Ambassador Richard Holbrooke issued this strong warning to the Indonesian militaries.

RICHARD HOLBROOKE: Indonesian generals should know that their own efforts to thwart internal accountability and openness and inquiry are only going to result in greater pressure. There is obviously is a profound struggle going on in Indonesia between the forces of democracy and the forces that look backward to protect their own skins and other parts of their anatomy. And it is a struggle of great historic consequence.

GWEN IFILL: President Wahid now credits the general with saving his life in an assassination attempt several years ago. But Wahid also said he hopes Wiranto resigns soon.

GWEN IFILL: For more on the situation in Indonesia we get three views: Dorodjatun Kuntjoro-Jakti is Indonesia's ambassador to Washington; Paul Wolfowitz was U.S. Ambassador to Indonesia during the Reagan administration; and Jeffrey Winters is Associate Professor of Political Economy at Northwestern University, specializing in Southeast Asia. Ambassador, welcome. We just heard, Ambassador Holbrooke say that there is a profound struggle going on in Indonesia between the forces of democracy and the forces that look backward. Do you agree with that?

DORODJATUN KUNTJORO-JAKTI, Ambassador, Indonesia: Reforms are continuing in Indonesia, and this is happening in all front and I believe that in such situation, we will have, of course, forces, pro as well as anti reformists moving up to the surface because now we have so many parties in Indonesia, not to mention hundreds of NGO's, and I believe that in this kind of situation, everybody would like very much to have their opinions known.

GWEN IFILL: NGO -- you mean non-governmental organizations.

DORODJATUN KUNTJORO-JAKTI: Non-governmental organizations, you're right. And we have 300 newspapers now. I believe that what is mentioned by Ambassador Holbrooke is really one of the issues that we are facing now.

GWEN IFILL: General Wiranto, is he on the side of reform -- what is his status now in this government?

DORODJATUN KUNTJORO-JAKTI: During the transition including in the era of President Habibie, which was less than one year, we saw that he took initiative to have the military introduce reforms. One of these steps which is familiar to all of us in Indonesia was the separation of the police force, for example, from the military. Also we have so many steps undertaken by him at that time to introduce more awareness among the military officers about issues of human rights, for example. So I believe that he actually started many of the reforms and he is still carrying a lot of this.

GWEN IFILL: But is his time up?

DORODJATUN KUNTJORO-JAKTI: Well, considering the pressure in the public for more faster, I would say, reforms in the military, I think you will see more pressures in the coming weeks.

GWEN IFILL: Paul Wolfowitz, the forces of democracy versus the forces that look backward, as Ambassador Holbrooke put it, is that the valid choice?

PAUL WOLFOWITZ: Well, first let me emphasize something else Ambassador Holbrooke said, which is what is taking place there is of historic importance and it can't be emphasized enough. I think his is the fourth largest country in the world. It's on the road to becoming a real democracy. That will make it -- apart from Turkey -- the only democracy in the Muslim world. It will become the largest democracy in East Asia. I think if it is successful, it can have dramatic positive effect on the Muslim world, on China. If it's unsuccessful and the country starts to unravel, it could destabilize all of East Asia. So the stakes here are huge. Obviously, they are most serious for the Indonesian people, themselves, but I think sometimes Americans act as though this is a far away place, that makes no difference to us; it's very, very important to the United States.

GWEN IFILL: And you are saying that it's not as bleak as it looks?

PAUL WOLFOWITZ: I think it's not as bleak as it looks. If you put Indonesia on a map of Europe, it would stretch from London to Moscow. It's a huge country. The fact that Maluku is as terrible as those scenes show, ignores the fact that Jakarta, which is a metropolitan area of 25 million, bigger than most countries in the world, is largely at peace. And it's a very complicated, ambiguous picture. You asked is Wiranto a reformer or anti-reform -- I think the truth is he is history, whichever he was. He did some very important things back after those horrible riots in May of 1998 which most people tend to think were caused by Suharto's rather vicious son-in-law. Wiranto is the man who moved the son-in-law out of any position of authority and got the army under control. Wiranto was the general who commanded the army during the first elections in Indonesian history, I think -- in June - where the army genuinely played a neutral role. He may have done bad things in East Timor or failed to stop bad things in East Timor, but that's what makes it so tricky is this president -- without any question -- is a reformer. The old president without any question was fighting reform every step of the way. I mean Suharto was. Wiranto, we don't know. And I think he should be given a fair trial on these charges in East Timor.

GWEN IFILL: Jeffrey Winters, what is your take on all this?

JEFFREY WINTERS, Northwestern University: Well, I agree that the level of change in Indonesia is absolutely dramatic. And for all the difficulties that we daily read about in the headlines, the fact is that a dictatorship of several decades where there were plans in place for condition continuing the dynasty was stopped, it was done with a relatively small amount of violence really. And the outcome was a transition to democracy but a very fragile one which involved compromises where President Wahid's administration had to incorporate two elements that he has now been systematically trying to work out of his coalition. Those two elements are a Muslim coalition that backed his presidency and he has been systematically cutting them out of key positions to try to consolidate his own control over his cabinet and administration, and second, the compromises that he made with the military to get in position, and he has also been very systematically and I think rapidly moving to try to strengthen civilian control over the military, but doing so in a climate, an economic climate, in particular, which is extremely difficult. Indonesia is the only country in Asia which has not been able to pull out of in a significant way, pull out of the Asia crisis which began at the end of 1997. So he is, I think we're not going to really see much coherent policy on the economic side or maybe even on the regional crisis side until President Wahid is able to really consolidate his control and sort of undo I think, the military/Muslim coalition that brought him to power.

GWEN IFILL: Mr. Ambassador your response to that?

DORODJATUN KUNTJORO-JAKTI: We need the support of all sides in Indonesia. So aside from President Wahid has to build up his support, please remember this is for the first time since the 50's we have a collective leadership in place and we have also a coalition cabinet which membership come from seven parties including of course the military. So it's not going to be easy for him. But I believe that the middle ground is there. In the last election from 140 some parties, a team was set up by those parties to select which one that can go to the national election. And about seven parties survive through natural selection process. So despite the problem that we have seen in the mass media, I believe that the middle ground is being built now in Indonesia.

GWEN IFILL: As President Wahid has traveled in Europe on this economic mission for the last few weeks, there has been rumblings at home of an imminent coup. How real is that?

DORODJATUN KUNTJORO-JAKTI: The Indonesian military is an institution. It has a well-established tradition and one of the historical background which should not be forgotten for everyone, by everyone who tried to see the Indonesian military -- originally it was set up by the people themselves. At the beginning of the revolution in 1945 until '47, we had hundreds of militias at that time organized by the people. And it was from this hodgepodge of militias we then created the military. So by tradition the military is very close to the people.

GWEN IFILL: What does that mean?

DORODJATUN KUNTJORO-JAKTI: Psychologically it's going to be very difficult -

GWEN IFILL: A coup or no coup?

DORODJATUN KUNTJORO-JAKTI: We never have this kind of attempt by the military in the 50-year history of the republic. I don't think at this moment a lot of the organization in the military moving toward professionalism that you will have this.

PAUL WOLFOWITZ: I think President Wahid is actually showing his confidence that there isn't going to be a coup. He hasn't hurried home to try to put one down. I think it's partly what the Ambassador said. It's also what - partly what Jeffrey Winters said, which is he has cleared out some of the potentially most troublesome generals. But I would say one other thing. I don't think his agenda is simply to eliminate people that he compromised with. That is part of the agenda. But I think the fundamental agenda is reconciliation and pulling people together. And it's worth remembering in South Africa, which, of course, was the most evincive case you could imagine, President Mandela set an example of this in this Truth and Reconciliation Commission to try to clear up -

GWEN IFILL: But there has been no agreement to do something similar in Indonesia yet.

PAUL WOLFOWITZ: Well, I think you can see a lot of movement in that direction, even in some of the things that the President has said about the Wiranto case.

GWEN IFILL: Jeffrey Winters, you wanted to say something?

JEFFREY WINTERS: Yes, I think the key thing on the question of the coup is that it's very unlikely that you are going to have the military as an institution move against this government, which by the way has as its head the two most popular people in the entire country and a move against those two people - President Wahid and his vice president, Megawati, would I think unleash both domestically and abroad an isolation of the Indonesian military. The danger is a group of people within the military as is so often the case with a coup, a group of desperate people who decide they have no better choice than to try to move against a system, which is in a creeping way moving against them. I would add also that it is extremely important at a moment like this that the U.S. foreign policy be one of not reengaging with the Indonesian military until such time as the civilians have a much firmer hand on the levers of control there.

GWEN IFILL: Excuse me, I just wanted to slide in there. As we just saw, President Wahid is frail. He is near blind. He survived two strokes. Does he look vulnerable to people especially when he tries to fire his top general and the top general won't be fired?

PAUL WOLFOWITZ: I think the top general is going to go. I think everybody sees the handwriting on the wall. It's simply a question of when -- and I think it's also worth pointing out in Indonesia -- unlike a lot of western cultures -- a lot of things are done indirectly and by negotiation. You know, when the military got out of line a month ago and a military spokesman made some interviews that suggested it didn't matter what the President thought, they were going to do what they wanted to any way, Wahid fired that spokesman. I don't think there's any question he has the authority.

GWEN IFILL: The President's condition?

DORODJATUN KUNTJORO-JAKTI: Well, I accompany him for his medical checkup at Salt Lake City last November, and the conclusion of the checkup was that medically he is excellent, and he has actually as I see it stabilized many of the problems and what we are seeing now is a possibility of him again going up for another checkup and this is okay.

GWEN IFILL: Jeffrey Winters, how does a country as diverse -- as unwieldy almost as the government of Indonesia -- go about restoring the rule of law?

JEFFREY WINTERS: Well, I think first of all, they've got to start by moving away from just talking about the rule of law, which they've done a lot of, and actually do more implementing. That is, they've got to strengthen their courts. They've got to upgrade the position of judges. They've already made a major move by freeing up the press and so there is a constant pressure and very open healthy debate going on in the society pressuring in the direction of rule of law, but I think we're already seeing terrific moves in that direction. I mean, that this human rights commission has done such a good job and as even forestalled the role of an international tribunal shows that they have done a serious investigation, that they have brought charges against what are very powerful figures domestically and it's very encouraging. And all of this sends signals to the people that those who were previously above the law are going to be treated according to the law. That is the way that rule of law gets put in place, case by case, not just statements but by following through. And there are signs that that follow-through is happening.

GWEN IFILL: Jeffrey Winters, Paul Wolfowitz and Ambassador Kuntjoro-Jakti, thank you very much for joining us.

FINALLY - BURNING BRIGHT

JIM LEHRER: Finally tonight, Tiger wins again and again, and to Terence Smith.

TERENCE SMITH: Golf phenomenon Tiger Woods pulled off a remarkable victory in the final round of the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am yesterday. Seven strokes down with seven holes to play, he came back to win by two strokes. It was his sixth consecutive victory on the PGA Tour, a feat last accomplished by the great Ben Hogan in 1948. Here are highlights of some of his final holes.

SPORTSCASTER: That was actually a pitching wedge if you can believe it. He is trying to knock it down.

SPORTSCASTER: I like that play and I like that shot. Go in! Oh! (Applause) Sounded a little bit heavy but it's not.

SPORTSCASTER: Oh, no. He just about made two in a row. That ball hit right in front of the hole. I thought it was going in.

SPORTSCASTER: There you go. He has come back from as many as seven down today. (Applause)

TERENCE SMITH: With us now is writer and commentator John Feinstein. His latest book is "The Majors," about the four major championships in professional golf.

TERENCE SMITH: John.

JOHN FEINSTEIN: Hi, Terence.

TERENCE SMITH: Good to have you here. You know some of the prose was pretty purple today describing all this. The "New York Times:" "a comeback of epic proportions;" the "Washington Post:" "nothing less than brilliant." Put this in proportion for us, this win and this record.

JOHN FEINSTEIN: The Post sounds like a theater review. It really was great theater, what he did yesterday and what he has done during this streak. When you do something in a sport that hasn't been accomplished for 52 years, when you equal Ben Hogan, that is extraordinarily. Of course, what is more remarkable is that he is still five away from the all-time record that was set by Byron Nelson in 1945. Now, back in 1945 golf wasn't as deep as it is today. There weren't as many good players. I would say the best players -- Byron Nelson, Ben Hogan, Jean Sarizan at the tail end of his career, and Sam Sneed -- were as good as today's best players but there weren't at many good players who could beat you in a given week.

TERENCE SMITH: Given the depth of golf today and the competitiveness, is it conceivable that he could go, that he could break Ben Hogan's record and go on to Byron Nelson?

JOHN FEINSTEIN: Well, anything is conceivable right now with Tiger Woods the way he is playing. He that good and I think he has also got everybody else just a little bit intimidated. They see him in the rear view mirror and their hands start to shake a little bit. That's what happened to Matt Gogel who was leaving the tournament yesterday trying to win his first event, and here comes Tiger Woods up on the outside. It's the last thing in the world you want to see. He is playing this week in San Diego where he won last year.

TERENCE SMITH: Smoked the course.

JOHN FEINSTEIN: He shot 62 on Saturday. Right. Then he is playing in Los Angeles, where he is very comfortable; then he has a match play event. He loves match play man to man through seven rounds to victory. Then he goes to two Florida courses if he gets to nine that he doesn't like quite as much. That may be where it gets tested, but think about this for a minute, Terence: If he ties the record at 11, he'll go to the masters looking to break the record. That will be the all-time media horde in the history of golf.

TERENCE SMITH: How is that for a stage set? Wouldn't it be wonderful?

JOHN FEINSTEIN: It would be unbelievable.

TERENCE SMITH: You know, putting it in another comparison, Jack Nicklaus never won more than two straight tournaments. Arnold Palmer never won more than three. Even what he has done now is something extraordinary.

JOHN FEINSTEIN: Oh, it is amazing. The other thing to think about is he just turned 24 in December. He has been on the tour a little more than three years. He has already won 17 times. Let me just throw a few names at you of players who haven't won that many times. Fred Couples, Davis Love, Phil Nicholson, Payne Stewart, they didn't want -- none of them have won 17 times on the tour. He has just turned 24. Golfers often don't peak until they are in their 30's, it's not unreasonable to say that the 18 major championships that Nicklaus one which is the all time great number in golf, and perhaps in all of sports, even though Tiger right now only has two majors; it's not unreasonable to think that that number may be unreachable. And no one, besides Nicklaus, by the way, has won more than 11.

TERENCE SMITH: Well, you know, he seems so extraordinary and so cool and composed and confident for a 24-year-old. How can that be?

JOHN FEINSTEIN: Well, he is used to winning. He has been winning all his life. He was the youngest player to ever within the Junior Amateur title, then the youngest player ever to win the U.S. amateur title. And he won it three years in a row. No one else had done that. Then he wins the masters when he is 21 by 12 shots, just by the way. He expects to win. Now he hit a little lull in 1998 - only won one tournament that year -- but I think that was good for him because he understood that he had to rework parts of his game. He matured as a person dealing with losses and disappointment, became better able to deal with the celebrity that comes with being Tiger Woods, and I think what people would look at a lost year in 1998 is one of the reasons why he is playing so well now.

TERENCE SMITH: What permitted him to turn it around, in your view?

JOHN FEINSTEIN: Well, a couple of things: he understood that he had to change his swing lightly, and actually hit the ball less far so that he would have more control off the tee. He worked harder at his game, especially short iron game, which was his one real inconsistency. And, as I said, Tiger -- the thing people miss about Tiger is he is one of the smartest people I've ever met in sports, he's very, very bright - not one of the smartest athletes I've met - one of the smartest people - and he figures things out. He figured out he needed to change agents because his agent was causing problems. He figured out he needed more independence from his father. He figured out that he needed to stop whining about the trappings of celebrity what he had $50 million in the bank. He has really grown up a lot away from the course. And I think has helped him tremendously on the course.

TERENCE SMITH: Is he the best ever?

JOHN FEINSTEIN: You can't say that yet. He still only has two major titles. And greatness is judged in golf by major titles. And Jack Nicklaus, as I said, has the record at 18. But he, more than anybody, has the chance to break the record. And it's amazing. Jack Nicklaus three years ago -- when Tiger was still an amateur in 1996 -- came in at a master's press conference and said this kid will win more masters than Arnold Palmer and I won combined, which is ten and people literally laughed at it, like Jack. You know, what have you been drinking today? And now, I don't think so many people are laughing.

TERENCE SMITH: They're not. John Feinstein thanks so much.

JOHN FEINSTEIN: Thanks, Terence.

RECAP

JIM LEHRER: And, again, the major stories of this Tuesday: Investigators said a piece may have broken off Alaskan Airlines Flight 261 just before it crashed. And four people escape after dark in a hijacked Afghan airliner at an airport near London. Some 150 captives remain on board. We'll see you online and again here tomorrow evening. I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank you and good night.