The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

fb i'm judy woodruff treasury secretary james baker a report on global advertising more from the bork hearings and a conversation with novelist toni morrison coming up on the macneil lehrer newshour ms

bee that evening leading the news this tuesday president reagan signed legislation forcing twenty three billion dollars in budget deficit reductions he also challenge west germany and japan to find the political dimension to keep the world economy growing and the senate voted to ban all iranian imports into the united states will have details in our new summer in a moment judy woodruff is in washington tonight after the news summary we go first to a newsmaker interview with treasury secretary james baker on the new budget law and international economic worries from not returned a global advertising a pulse almond report on how tv ads are keeping up with business next more pro and con on robert bork from his senate confirmation hearings and finally charlayne hunter gault talks with author toni morrison about her new novel beloved funding for the macneil

lehrer newshour is provided by at and t combining everything people like about telephones with everything from computers to make everything about information at mt funding also was provided by the station and other public television stations and the corporation for public broadcasting president reagan today signed the revised gramm rudman law that mandates twenty three billion dollars in budget deficit reductions at a rose garden ceremony cities signed with great reluctance calling it a fix that doesn't fix things the right way and warning the congress faced a fight over what to cut to those who say we must weaken america's defenses there and not those you say there was raise the tax burden on the american people to make too and that's where there's a third choice the right choice is to cut the excesses from the domestic budget to impose upon the domestic budget once and for all a sense of responsibility and the

national good yes i'll sign this bill said do so from this moment on the big spenders in congress will have a fight on their hands earlier the president of the international monetary fund that he signed the bill as a signal that america is not backing down from its responsibilities really challenge countries with high trade surpluses to do more saying the health of the world economy does not hinge solely on the us budget policy the common west germany and japan in particular to find the political gumption to stimulate their economies the senate voted ninety eight to nothing today to ban all iranian imports into the united states the us has in recent years imported some five to six hundred million dollars worth of products annually from iran according to the sponsor of the proposals senate minority leader bob dole dough made it clear the action was taken in response to iran's recent moves in the persian gulf how we can indicate the board were concerned we're not going to give them more money but they interviewed by

whatever silkworm missiles and congress feel very strongly about it in the persian gulf the us navy began escorting a new convoy as british minesweeper started searching for mines discovered yesterday off dubai we have a report from keith graves of the bbc they let people move into the waltham on the top and went straight to work reminded me to forget that brought in for breaking any child while the revolution we got an unofficial agreement now gives the french responsibility for mine detection and faith in the approach of the gulf region in the falkland war zone and the united states from all that and go traffic generation that built up in the area before the navy started operations fearful of giving the channel through rambling

back in washington from a tour of a golf defense secretary weinberger said the us would attack any ship caught laying mines and appearing before the senate armed services committee admiral william crowder chairman of the joint chiefs of staff said the navy underestimated the threat posed by uranium mines when it started the tanker protection operation he also said the navy is looking for ways to reduce the number of men and ships there now soviet party leader mikhail gorbachev today showed up in public for the first time in seven weeks apparently putting to rest rumors that he or his wife had been ill gorbachev met in french delegation leader of legislators that he seemed in excellent health and in good for soviet officials have repeatedly said that gorbachev was on vacation in the french delegation leader said gorbachev and mentioned that he had been working on a book there was another day of warm support and blistering attack for supreme court nominee robert bork former attorney general elliot richardson said the nation owes work a substantial debt because he pressed for a new watergate special prosecutor

after obeying president nixon's order to fire the first one committee chairman joseph biden sharply attacked work saying he could come down for government intrusion into americans' private lives the chairman of the iran contra hearings senator daniel inouye said their report would be published october twenty eight or twenty nine you said it will be controversial and he said he didn't know of all the members would sign it finally in them is henry ford the second the leader of american industry died today he was seventeen years old and had been under treatment for pneumonia he took over the ford motor company and nineteen forty four when he was twenty eight and let it to profitability after world war to be maintained a highly publicized social life and was a leader of the countries business community among his civic accomplishments was his support for the ford foundation and downtown detroit's renaissance center project and ours are a summary of the day's top stories just ahead on the newshour a newsmaker interview with the secretary of the treasury a look at marketing on a global basis extended excerpts from

today's board confirmation hearings and a conversation with novelist toni morrison keys first tonight we have a newsmaker interview with treasury secretary james baker as we reported economic dominated news in washington today in a speech before the world bank and international monetary fund president reagan called for increased lending too indebted third world countries year japan and west germany to do more to stimulate the world economy and later as a signal to the world he reluctantly signed a new law requiring federal budget deficit cuts a twenty three billion dollars mr secretary welcome what exactly is the world intended to take this signal to me well i think it's i intended to take into may now robin that the nie states is serious about the obligations which it it has undertaken in agreements with other major nations of the world too early to work cooperatively to bring our world the world economy if you will and a

better balance we said we would continue to make progress on deficit reduction in this country and that's what this means in as as your intro pointed out this was a very very difficult decision for the prayers that show so it shows the world the united states is serious here recorded it was recorded in your favorite signing it because not to have signed it would've had an adverse effect on world financial markets and thinking is that true well i was part of it but i'm not to assign it also would've meant that the unites states for the first time in its two hundred year history would have defaulted on its debts i think one of the one of the things quite frankly that separates united states from some other nations in the world is that it stands up to its obligations and meets its obligations and we have two hundred years of credibility that we built up out there after all the dollar is the world's reserve currency is extremely important that we not default on our obligations and the congress had tied this revision of gramm rudman to an extension on

a deadline the new york times are referred to the president's reluctance to sign this in the shop things he said the congress said today the new york times said today president reagan has only himself to blame is in flexibility on raising taxes reducing defense spending drove congress to these new tactics a newcomer well i think that's a totally wrong on the fact of the matter is the president the senate budget up in january which would have not only accomplished twenty three billion dollars and that's a reduction of forty billion dollars in deficit reduction without raising taxes and without gutting our defense program the congress is simply are unwilling or unable to face up to the fact that we really need to cut some domestic spending in this country domestic spending continues to increase significantly federal spending as a whole is up to twenty three percent of our gross national product to start they spent about twenty taxi or assert taxation is up to about nineteen percent and that's historically where its been so

it's not a case where being under taxed it's a case of our overspending at the federal government we really argue with his message on the spending side is it politically realistic to say that there is a great deal that company and the domestic spending but it wasn't a cup to reduce the budget episode substantially i think it is a particularly when you consider that we assign a budget up in january again that had something like eighteen billion dollars in suggested spending cuts in it and twenty two million dollars in revenues the congress has chosen not to take in veritate very little of the domestic spending cuts and they basically put some of our revenue options off limits so if they really was a good faith effort or intention here to define twenty three billion dollars and that's a reduction we can do it without raising taxes and as far as a presence concerned we're going to have to do it without raising taxes the seven major industrial countries us are designing one of the meeting over the weekend reached

a consensus that the dollar should and would remain stable was signing this budget bill a condition of that agreement no it was not a condition of that agreement but the president announced on saturday afternoon it in his radio speech that he would sign this bill after he had agonized over it for quite some time and that announcement i must say you was greeted doe was greeted very warmly by by the other ministers and the central bank governors of the major industrialized nations of the world were there in our meeting because it did indicate that the united states was serious about its undertakings it was in no way a condition but it should it should lead to exchange rate stability because it means we're going to be moving to bring the world economy in a better balance between deficit nation to unite states and surplus nation's japan and germany should we assume the us will take measures to fight any further decline in the dollar well we should sound that the year that the statements that were made around that meeting on

saturday that is that the year all seven of them major industrialized nations reaffirmed their commitment made earlier in paris this year to have two closely cooperate to foster exchange rate stability around current levels it means just that that they're going to continue to do that we've been very pleased with the itch to exchange rate stability that's taken place since february and of the major countries of the war was see that continue liane feeling seems to be on wall street a general feeling that the federal reserve board which raised interest rates half a percent earlier this month we'll probably do so again before the end of the year do you think it's going to need higher interest rates to keep the dollar stable why they gets very counterproductive to speculate about about the level of the dollar or about interest rates both of those are matters that have extreme financial market volatility so i really it had expressed an opinion on that i will i would suggest to you that

the federal reserve took action the us several weeks ago in their own words to dampen inflationary psychology that they saw in domestic markets are particularly the domestic bond market investors there were also referred to your situation of the dollar loss that they did not in their in their statement at the time it is now almost two years since the dollar began to fall encouraged or at least applauded by you at the time as a way perhaps of bringing me a trade deficits more into law and now those deficits over the last few months it started to increase again what is happening it looks when they're well it's something called j curve effect and that's what happens on a nominal basis on a real basis and in volume turns our trade deficit is improving our exports are up seventeen or eighteen percent of our imports are down in volume terms but not in nominal dollar terms and that's what happens

when you see it when you see it appreciating currency you know if we hadn't taken the action that we are that we took at the plaza hotel in september nineteen eighty five our trade deficit would be an absolutely out of sight and we would be looking at much larger figures and we are today surgery centers and vows to work i'm saying it is working as sarah's work is we're absolutely working and that we're seeing a much were saying ayo an improved trade picture in volume terms and in time we will see that in nominal bartlett what is your policy known for improving it further improving the trade imbalance for well one of the one thing we ought not to do is to urge is to resort to our already he'd the siren song of protectionism if you will which is what the congress is he's about to do the house both the house and the senate are passing bills that are very very protectionist it would take an ice face down the same road we went down in the late nineteen thirties with very adverse consequences what we need to do is make sure that we're better with were more competitive

that our industries or leaning maine we ought to take a look at our educational system and examined closely why american children go to school and eighty days a year only a non japanese during those killed two hundred and forty days a year we ought to aggressively fight unfair trade practices in and i thought that our trading partners engage in and try and hammer markets open abroad and we've been marked on our course of doing that for some time we got to keep those things up as well as moving on exchanger as you mentioned the trade bill that the two houses of commerce and kirsten are about to go into a conference to resolve tuition believe that it can negotiate a satisfactory compromise a bill the president could sign at this point well we we think we could robin if the fbi trade elements securely trade elements of this a big catch all bill were segregated out and we were permitted to deal for instance with the those committees in the congress having jurisdiction of trade

finance committee the ways and means committee but the way the trade bill is being hamill it's a thousand pages long it's a big catch all for about for the product of ten or eleven or twelve committees in the congress and there's a lot of very bad stuff in there and it makes it extremely hard to negotiate a responsible reasonable bill when that's the approach if we could take a train elements out and negotiate on those we think we can reach an agreement with congress on a response for trade and we've offered by the way to do that and so far we've been told that's not possible but to come back to the president's exhortations today germany and and and japan last week appealing to another political gumption to stimulate their economies and help the world economy last week the germans and the japanese raised interest rates likely get their ministers and saying that's not a change of policy ideas country giving us around no i don't think so and i thin and and by the way there was a discussion and that is you in depth at our meetings on saturday and that

we heard from their finance ministers and central bank governors that indeed they were not changing and their monetary policies i don't think they're giving us the runaround but this puts the united states the fact that we had that we have obtained a spin exceedingly large deficit reduction nineteen eighty seven song sixty five billion dollars then the press its action saying we're gonna continue in nineteen eighty eight by signing a bill that was a very difficult decision this puts the united states in the position of being able to go to these countries and say okay you can no longer say united states is doing its part you can no longer hide behind the unites states' fiscal deficit what you gonna do additionally to bring the world economy into into better balance now i must say that we haven't made those requests yet the president didn't sign this bill until today these countries japan and germany both are performing on commitments that they made to us in paris in february and performing quite well i

might say the point i'm making is now the united states has shown it's performing and we're in a position to move down the line in now and continuing to bring these economies and a better conversions by signing this bill president zardari who's got this country up from behind be a policy i think i think he has and he's basically shown the world and then that following on the heels of the sixty five billion dollar reduction in our lives at this year we're going to have additional deficit reduction next year at the very least they do better than that but at the very least we're gonna get twenty three million that's a lot of deficit reduction to you know you know i can come to germany japan you want their interest rates to go down well we want to we would frankly want to see them stimulate their economies as much as they can consistent with maintaining the gains the world is made against inflation we're not suggesting for one minute that there be that there'd be pump priming measures or that we run the risk of a

resurgence of inflation and each of those countries has got of course to judge the inflationary situation in their respective jurisdictions and a couple of other matters stood you have become involved in the free trade negotiations with canada you are many hours with him yesterday can those negotiations be put back on track after being broken up because we sure hope so united states hopes so it we've we've remained at the negotiating table and we really hoped that they that the conversations informal conversations we've had over the past several days and not really negotiations but but more of a political dialogue if you will we hope that that is going to result in a decision by the canadian cabinet to come back to the negotiating table we don't know that yet have there was a meeting of that cabinet this morning another one this afternoon and we expect to hear something out within the next several hours why in the eu in a country with an economy so much larger than the canadian are these talks and there is also important for the united states a trap for over a hundred years to

see if the united states and canada has to close two of the world's largest trading partners could reach agreement on a free trade zone for free trade agreement that would really be a very good thing for both countries economically it would be good for the united states even though were much larger because we would we would eliminate the canadian tariffs for instance or are much higher than ours and we will invest in this agreement both sides would eliminate tariffs it would give us access to the canadian market would give them better access to this market it would give us access to investment in canada which is his respected to a far greater degree today that it showed me he would be a very very good thing for both the army on global that question via vice president bush's been in poland near time says today the administration is offering get assistance up phones with their debt alter their debt for communist dictatorship while continuing to be granted to third world democracies and he will when the contradiction well i

don't think that's that that's true the united states has offered has offered substantial assistance to third world or mock or cesar that are willing to undertake economic reforms and the only thing that the vice president has offered the poem is is the us a rescheduling in the in the paris club which is the year which is the organization of official creditors if they'll lose if they are smart takes a market opening measures and reform our economy a little bit so it's so it's really good really moves along the same line is our approach two lesser developed countries do better countries and other parts for his administration approved of the senate's action including an embargo on iranian oil and other imports well we certainly a pre approve of the philosophy of it we approve of the concept of the idea that we should not be supporting i state should not be supporting iranian aggression the question of whether or not it's it said is enforceable or feasible is a is a difficult

question oil is fungible had you determine whether you're buying oil it came ultimately from the originally from iran when you buy a product had you know that product was not refined with the iranian oil and it represents a very difficult enforcement problem is to represent is it true as reported that the us has been importing about six hundred thousand barrels a day iranian oil well is the largest amount our accept were nigeria i really can answer that because i do not personally know whether that's a factually correct it's what i what i read the papers just like you said but i can't really from my own personal knowledge confirm or mr secretary your true geordie he's still ahead on the newshour advertising aimed at a worldwide market extended excerpts from the board confirmation hearings and a conversation with novelist toni morrison we shift our focus now from world debt to world

markets where advertisers are learning and walt disney was right it's a small world after all our special business correspondent paul sonne when a public station wgbh in boston looks at some new tv ads and what they say about the phenomenon called globalization oh this is coca cola's new is dan it's called general assembly meeting features teenagers from two dozen different nations general assembly will debut this fall all over the world to sixteen different languages and more than fifty countries this act represents the latest stage of what was once a heresy on madison avenue what is now the highest rated advertisement all over the world more more people's preferences regarding products and services and qualities and features i'm getting more and more like several years ago this land

harvard business school professor ted levitt stand the advertising community by announcing what seemed to him pretty obvious increasingly all of the world to find the same market since market segments repeated over and over again so the yuppies of paris for example behave in much the same way and have much the same place as the yuppies or peoria or anywhere else you sell to all of them as if they constitute in one segment of a global market the first agencies to go global with get a big jump on their competitions but for years and agencies resisted global market at the agencies and their clients were used to making money the old fashioned way different ad campaigns for apparently different markets in america at kentucky fried chicken is sold as cheap fast food

but in japan it was being marketed as an authentic high quality product needs they're sad is still multinational each country unique each marketing campaign uniquely tailored but multinational marketing may be a thing of the past well the multinational corporation is precisely where it says this needs a corporation the things of the world as consisting of a multiplicity of separate distinct nations in the separate distinct markets and each one of those and his organizing managed around each one of those separate market with a consequence a very high cost of doing business was global is merely a step beyond that we're organized and offered free the world from major segments of

them as being a single or some other category in the world of marketing a product is not just that the subjects themselves but a set of associations and the city advertising doesn't just communicate these intangible qualities he creates and his advertising itself becomes part of what you're selling in global advertising that means you're selling similar association similar dreams this coca pro football great mean joe green plant in the us in nineteen eighty two it was a great in this country with his nomination so this year old but heroes and hero worship sale everywhere no problem is still

the season in argentina cocaine caught the global way but in the early nineteen eighties despite coax efforts there were still major hurdles for global market into overtime in this country's television was still monopolized either by state run or at least heavily regulated say <unk> in almost every country estate rigidly controlled the type and amount of advertising west germany for example the state allowed only two minutes of advertising per hour and stress you could run a computer and presumably does it would compete with the strange stayed on computer monopoly this extravagant ad for example is selling an american computer they said couldn't run in france even though it was selling a global product using the global message in tomorrow's business battle don't get caught with yesterday's

technology but national restrictions on advertising like this were beginning to give way a wave of deregulation was sweeping the globe and opening up tv markets from france to the philippines the time was right for global advertisers like the virtuous their autonomy for two three things happen really more credibility because of global basis for ziskin regional advertising which comes from the cell sits in the second city the opening of more commercial television of the country too and so a company like pepsico now producing them with rock star tina turner in any local law start anywhere in the world there's more time for tv ads in puerto rico they wanted even tino with puerto rican rock idol wilkins do we think anybody else

and she knows that she and her partners are simply selling the excitement and energy that appeals to the pepsi generation everyone's pop culture particularly american pop culture as the marginalized minorities and so now advertisers simply experience a nice for themselves and that raises the coast general assembly at the newest instance of global marketing for those in favor of global marketing this is the realization of an age old dream one world united by common tastes and a common propensity to consume but there was a more global marketing they see something very different one small industry madison avenue i'm modernizing the world and destroy precious cultural diversity in the process both sides would agree on that globalization is here to stay and that will be your

next tonight we return to the confirmation battle over judge robert bork president reagan's nominate to the supreme court the senate judiciary committee heard more today on bork's role in the watergate era saturday night massacre and on board to use of the right to privacy the first panel of witnesses this morning or call to criticize bork for failing to recognize the general right privacy in the constitution specifically democrats on the committee asked the panel about bork's contention that there is no need to find the right to privacy spelled out because citizens most private acts are not about to be placed in jeopardy by the government we're told that obviously the

state is not to do things like gas birth control laws like connecticut and that we really don't have to worry because no legislative would never lacked legislation that infringed upon basic rights do you believe that to be true history shows mr chairman the exact opposite of judge bork such forums that we can trust majorities we can trust the good sense of the powers that b never to infringe privacy history shows the opposite is no reason to suppose that new and different laws will come on to the horizon that threatened i do see a new and previously unforeseen ways we should bear in mind the words of the great conservative justice on so many issues just as harlan and his ideological air justice powell that we must thought the court should acknowledge the existence of the right to privacy but tread carefully in defining its go you elaborate the rights slowly incrementally over time with attention to our tradition our

history our basic underlying values you don't go wild with that you know protect anything people say is private you project where traditions say make us a free people i listened with interest to those arguments in france by people who promote the general view over generalized right to privacy and the chorus i concluded that general i'd write little more liberal oregon it's laying right there on the table for those panel i'd like to try to get a handle on where you think that this gentle writer general right of privacy might take his word extends to lawyers and americans disagreed widely oh on the scope that write in on the grounds for more on the grounds on which it might be a reagan there's a range of different views which people take on that issue i mean some of us might might include and sexuality in the end the scope of privacy might have problems including

other things homosexual marriages imploded and our privacy i mean it seems to me like we got to get to appoint a judge blocked sorbet your spouse eighties to now on the right to privacy and how far does your point you take our society away from the community standards and just a lot of the political the station's owner make this country and get my name in to get if the question here would be that were whether judge bork sees the right of privacy as wide enough for us as encompassing all the things we personally might think ought to be private none of us would be here because we all agree that reasonable men and women can disagree about the scope of the right to privacy some might think prostitution involves the marketplace commerce that's not love roots are that's at six beloved sex for money and therefore it's not private others might disagree that's not why we're here why we're here is because judge bork isn't asking us to get in that

line drawing issue he says there's no right of privacy so you don't get a line drawing issue as to both senator simpsons and senator grassley is remarked that this right of privacy isn't cabin then limitless and as wide as the sea or there's just no evidence for it the supreme court hasn't taken and what were the limits as far for example just get in by the supreme court to terms ago was it did not extend five to four decision it did not extend the right of privacy to consensual adult on the sexual why because it's a new standard because in good faith trying to draw the line as is the appropriate task of the supreme court if they stop and engaging in line drawing baby is out of work is the nfl life drawing is their business they drew the line in large part because they couldn't identify that with the traditions of our country the values underlying are people at the time of the framing of the bill of rights and the supreme court's not join making that determination of our society of our checks and belton says mcgowan that i'm fighting an example serve that limits the

supreme court has drawn its not limitless the supreme court has not said everything in the world that any academic might invent is private they've said look to our traditions look to our values some of us may disagree with that decision that's not why we're here that's not why we're here we're here because we think it's dangerous to deny the existence of the riot we fully court anyone his right to argue that it's the next witness was former attorney general elliot richardson who defended bork's firing of watergate prosecutor archibald cox and to express support for boards news that debunks actions in the aftermath of clark's dismissal completed a continuation and ultimate success of the watergate investigation he took immediate steps to keep the watergate special prosecution for together and insisted that it retained responsibility for the investigation so much was chairman for a hen issue as to

which i have from the outset that happy to do what i could to assure that judge marks row was fully understood and adequately appreciated the uncertainty which rarely referred stem from utterances it may be wonder whether his view reflected the requisite balance between the two most basic considerations that cuts to education is required to reconcile on the one hand you're a god or continuity and stability and on the other openness toward the maturing that you had to change this time my uncertainty has now been dispelled by the carefully considered testimony the judge bork has given to this committee so he may have a sign the same way to these considerations that i would give them are there is a ration of them as eminently reasonable i'm also certified to

portray him as a ban on and finding his every utterance in some future majority opinion is worse than a caricature it is a distortion republican senator strom thurmond gave richardson a chance to raise or do you figure this is the qualifications to make an outstanding supreme court justice of the united states and by that i mean there are caucasians at a map of ourselves and he uses integrity judicial cow mud and and the incompetence singing i believe you know david green all the qualities you know married and now have said unreservedly convinced that he would make an outstanding supreme court justice not only with respect or quality tackle touchdown

but with respect to his contribution to the adjudication inherently difficult issues that will always divide a body of nine justices but later in the afternoon two former watergate special prosecutors disputed richardson's assessment that board was instrumental in the successful conclusion of the watergate investigation testified tuesday during his testimony yasser ali and his testimony on all sanctions in the aftermath of the caucus muscle contributed to the continuation of misfits as an award investigation he took them is to have to keep the ward a special prosecution for together and says labour changed was investigated he really didn't know what happened

vicki said yet second and third hand accounts and from the second in her third hand accounts in the us to work with himself well in fact senator and off i just don't wanna see history re written just to confirm a supreme court justice the fact is as the borg was irrelevant or continuation irrelevant he had nothing to do with it we saw him as not a factor in any decision that we're making and we saw him as powerless to cause anything that happened i don't see any reason to rewrite history mr read it's a moment then testified in a small state sanctioned and they smile when the best interest of the department of justice and the country also but instead it sounds like you believe that or not i can't answer that yes or no senator i would characterize judge bork role in the weeks after the saturday night massacre as basically a leaf

floating on an ocean during hurricane this was going to be the outcome of the integrity of the investigation and the prosecution is going to be shaped by events far beyond at his control and it was shaped by events far beyond his control you as a true said he was an irrelevant player in this will you one candidate a statement in which you were the ads are well as julia knew i'm not no sir no sir this afternoon the senate democratic vote counter party with alan cranston told reporters that he thought the bork nomination would be defeated princeton says he counted forty nine senators against only forty four and eleven undecided said that represented a loss of five pro war votes in the past two weeks he's extended charlayne hunter gault

talks with award winning author toni morrison about her highly acclaimed novel beloved as one of america's most formidable women of letters toni morrison always gets a lot of attention when a novel of hers is related beloved came out in september and is already in its third printing stance moving to the top of the best seller list following the pattern of morrison's four other novels published over the last sixteen years the bluest eye sue a song of solomon and tar baby when tar baby was published in nineteen eighty one morrison statue in the world of fiction earned her a newsweek cover story the beloved is the second morrison novel to become a book of the month club main selection beloved as the story of a runaway slave cetera who tries to kill her children rather than see them returned to slavery she succeeds in killing only one a daughter named beloved story unfolds around the return of the lovers' angry

ghosts she moves into the house with her mother insisted denver hear morrison reads from a passage that illuminates denver's view of the murder and sets his need to make the love of ghost understand it so i was trying to make up for the hand so beloved was making her pay for it but that would never get into that in seeing her mother diminished shamed it infuriated her yet she knew served his greatest fear was the same one denver had in the beginning their beloved likely that this process could make her understand what it meant but it took to drag the teeth and that's all under the little chance to feel the baby blood pumped like oil in their hands to hold her face and head would stay on a squeeze or so she could absorb still the debt spasms that shot through that door it plum seat with life of the law that might leave leave before sector could make her

realize that were spent there followers was what baby suggs died of what allan you put stamps saw and what they call d turnbow that anybody why it could take your host of anything that came to mind not just work till i'm a new or do you barry is so bad you can like yourself anymore their use so that he forgot who you weren't couldn't think about and then she and the others lived through and got over it she could never never happen to own the best thing she was scared children whites liked at her all right but not the best day and beautiful magical best thing part of her and it was clinging to someone inspiring basically i read an article in the nineteenth century newspaper

about a woman whose name was margaret garner who had indeed killed or try to children she was a fugitive slave and rather than have them go back he decided to take the law into purpose of oblivion and it was an article that stayed with me and seemed to have in it an extraordinary idea that was worthy of an hour which was this compulsion to nurture this ferocity that a woman has to be responsible for children and at the same time the kind of tensions that exist in trying to be a separate complete individual he used it to that she has no she had no right to do it that i would have done the same thing i mean it was the right thing to do but she had to have to do it i think i

felt that the planes you see those women were not parents you could happen when the people insisted that they have children that they could not be mothers because they have nothing to say about the future of those children where they land they could make no decisions they technically the name them so that they were denied humanity in a number of ways that he would deny that role which is how early it has a bit of history is what women do and so she claimed that something that he had no right to claim which was the property or children they've claimed it so finally she decided that she could not only dictate in them and when one knows

what the life with a future would be her decision is not that difficult to understand you've talked to bear previous accounts of slavery being simplistic in that probing the interior being of the characters this is how difficult was it for you to probe the interior being of characters are being black still for a long long time goes back up my disappointed in some of the accounts art was based on the fact that it's a live tuesday and then the big problem is the flavor is so intricate so immense in so long and so on precedent that you can that slavery be the story the pla and we know where that story is that it is predictable and then you do the worst thing which is you he used the center of it becomes the institution the people so focused

on the characters and their imperial i it's like putting the authority back into the hands of the slave rather than slave owner produces rationale for the ghosts for so i really wanted her past her memories her haunting memories not to be abstract i wanted her to actually sit down at the table with the thing he's been trying to avoid and explain away which is just pass this terrible thing that happened to confront it as a way of saying that's what the past is a living thing has this relationship between ourselves and our personal history and our racial history and natural history but sometimes if you make it into a person it's inescapable confrontation the other was that it was part of the millions of black people to think in terms of a very intimate relationship between living in the day they didn't have that you know sort of

this is good received almost that know that critical time reading isn't just total acclaimed but one of the things that preexisted though that this book in the character pacific and other out works of you is is that you draw characters that are larger than life there that disturb you or is that even the criticism as far you're concerned if used as hysterically but i realize that what they are saying is that like a small packages and they are in fact as big as i am life is really very big weekend to cut it down these days collins wants to make sure that one headline do you think the modern readers haven't diminished view of life

to be used over the writers were making small small television really sell within cut out the screen size and two short article dwelling in the life of a complicated person over complicated period infection is not involved if this is sort of it's small it's now or geography history biography and i think to realize you said many years ago many years ago and back in the seventies there you were an editor at that time that when a mouse and you're saying that you wanted to put to use the paid in developing the canon of black work beyond black self regulation the kind of entertainment that you felt was being encouraged among black writers barry white editors or the white society

did you succeed in particular and has the publishing world succeeded in general is having a better balance of work there has been this to resistance because the fix on who that period hasn't changed a great deal of the reader is a collection fourteen sixteenth white and lives in dallas suburb near big city missouri classic profiles who buys books but something happened in the meantime a huge readership emerged black and white and female which made a difference in what was published do when i mention this off legislation i was particularly aware of song titles in particular but more importantly the eagerness with which publishers and deepen the book industry were interested in books by black people that i said let me tell you tell us the terrible it is painfully

and so that wasn't so i encourage me to sort of expose the hearts of the the victim which some people played into but it was like feeding the vampire with one's own blood instead of describing in a complicated extraordinary survival life which doesn't mean you wipe the slate clean of all the black people heroic there was a mood of that but you have somewhat out of that is some of the most complicated interesting mysterious people in the world a whole group of them and they need to be revealed for what that life is not simply to reveal and educate or even play into the hands of the year and he would use to be earning forth guilt excesses of the white people and that's what i mean by that sort of large but and i wanted that to change and many black women writers have succeeded along those lines

because there was this active growing readership and was just desperately hungry to see themselves at a stagecoach what happens as a toni morrison who has been responsible for introducing so many new voices into american fiction letters as you move farther and farther away from your editing responsibility because of the success of your own publishing i'm who fills that void and what does that the patent how does that make you feel i mean in a way you're abandoning your children and it's two and then limited then and there that i am convinced that the more i am well no the better known and the series of other writers to come along

if i till it's on myself and publicity telling and you're selling books like to have you then all of the younger people who will have to breakdown the same goes for the open they will write infinitely better than they will write about all sorts of things that no one right again that protects they will be stronger and they will be delicious to be a part of that availability and accessibility is because six or seven women writers among whom i'm one have already been there and tells a solo rap finally another look at the top stories today president reagan signed the revised gramm rudman law forcing twenty three billion dollars in budget deficit reductions promising a fight with congress to preserve defense spending president appealed to west germany and

japan to do more to stimulate the world economy the senate voted to embargo imports of iranian oil and other products the center on a signal that washington would not a business as usual in the present situation in the persian gulf and i didn't in iraq and that's our newshour for tonight we'll be back tomorrow night i'm judy woodruff thank you and goodnight funding is provided by combining with everything from computers everything about information it into you funding also was provided by the station and other public television stations and the corporation for public broadcasting many

thanks in northern new or early years