The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

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pope and i mean i'm jim lehrer and washington welcome to this special news hour pbs coverage of the two thousand four vice presidential debate you're like you know i'm shocked at the auditorium in the real center at case western reserve university in cleveland ohio that's where just a few moments vice president dick cheney and senator john edwards would take questions from the moderator of tonight's debate our very own glam

idol tonight's debate has taken on added significance as a result of last week's presidential debate going into that and then president bush was ahead in the polls afterwards it appeared senator kerry benefited the most the race is tightened up once again there are no restrictions on topics tonight although they should fall roughly half foreign policy at domestic the war in iraq remains a major issue today it was reported that former iraqi administrator paul bremer said that the us effort was hampered by not deploy enough troops early on that will surely come up tonight after the debate we'll talk to our regular analyst mark shields and david brooks as well as democrat maria edge of that state and republican peter robinson as well as historians michael beschloss ellen fitzpatrick an h w brands and now we go to cleveland ohio and to the moderator gwen good evening from case western reserve university the field center here in cleveland ohio and when i pull up

the newshour and washington week on pbs and i welcome you to the first and the only vice presidential debate between vice president dick cheney the republican nominee and sen john edwards' the democratic nominee these debates are sponsored by the commission on presidential debates tonight for last ninety minutes following detailed rules of engagement worked out by representatives of the candidates i have agreed to enforce the rules they had devised for themselves to the best of my ability the questions tonight will be divided between war and domestic policy but the specific topics were chosen by me the candidates have not been told what they are the rules for each question there can be only a two minute response a ninety second rebuttal and at my discretion a discussion extension of one minute a green light will come on when thirty seconds remaining any given answer yell at fifteen at five seconds and then splashing red means time's up there's also a backup

buzzer system it needed candidates may not direct questions to one another there will be two in a closing statements but no opening statements there is an audience here in the hall but they had been in struck him to remain silent throughout the order of the first question was determined by the candidates in advance and the first one goes to vice president cheney vice presidency there have been new developments in iraq especially having to do with the administration's handling paul bremmer the former head of the coalition provisional authority gave a speech in which he said we never had enough troops on the ground would never had enough troops on the ground donald rumsfeld said he has not seen any hard evidence of a link between saddam hussein was this the throat every other report that you requested that he received a week ago that sought show that was no connection between either we saw how we answered on say you were no one of the poster case western reserve hosted by super

important than indigenous verge of putting it together support look at all over to violence and a raccoon in the broader context of what we want to earth and after nine eleven it became clear that we had several things to have a successful strategy to win the war on terror specifically that we had to go after the terrorists where we might find in that we also have to go after state sponsors of terror of those who might provide sanctuary or save our reporter and we also then finally had to stand up the market since then afterwards that was the only way to guarantee that these states would not again become safe harbor for terror for the fountain of deadly weapons concern about iraq specifically focused on the fact that saddam hussein had them for years listed on the state sponsor of terror and establish relationships with the billion dollar loss they getting paid twenty five thousand dollars to the families of suicide bombers and yet established relationships specifically a look at george tenet cia directors testimony before the committee on foreign

relations two years ago he talked about a ten year relationship the effort that we not do with respect to a rack focus specifically on the possibility that this is the most likely nexus between the terrorists and weapons of mass destruction the biggest threat we face today is a possibility of terror smuggling nuclear weapon or biological agents and one about citizenship in the lives of hundreds of thousands of americans fall in what we did arrive was exactly the right thing to do if i had to recommend all over again i'd recommend exactly the same course of action the world's far safer today because saddam hussein is in jail its governance more manpower and that we did exactly the right center and fighting where from our use but it evokes a case western all the people from northern ohio for fred astaire was vice president you're still not being straight with the american people i'm in the reality you and and george

bush continued to kill people first that things are going well in iraq the american people only vestige bind to and they've seen on the television every single day we lost more troops in september there were lost jobs lost more in august will last until i lost more in july they will often do the truth is our men and women in uniform had the euro our military has done everything they've been asked to do and it's not just me it says the listener are there are republican leaders like john mccain like richard lugar like chuck hagel who said iran iraq is a mess is getting worse they were never asked why richard lugar said because of the incompetence and obstruction what paul brimmer said yesterday is they didn't have enough troops to secure the country they also didn't have a plan to win the peace they also then but the alliance's together to make this successful we need a fresh start

when a president will speed up the training of iraq's get more staff him for doing that we need to speed up the reconstructions of iraq and see some tangible benefit we need a new president who has the credibility with john kerry has to bring other so it's like thirty seconds respond what are we made significant progress iraqis that the government spent on only ninety days the notion of additional troops is talk about frequently that point of success and radical be reached one we have turned governance over to the iraqi people have been able to establish a democratic government they're well on the way to doing until every election next january for the first time in history but also are actively rapidly training iraqis to take on the security responsibilities those two states are crucial to the success in rats well underway and i'm confident the president there is no connection between the attacks of september eleventh and saddam

signed the nine eleven commission has said if your own secretary of state sit around the country suggesting that there is some connection there is not and in fact the cia is now about reports that the connection but wait archive and saddam hussein is tenuous at best and if that secretary of defense said yesterday that he knows of no hard evidence of a connection we need to be straight with the american people time for a new question at the same time his family as senator edwards you and senator kerry has said that the war in iraq as the wrong war at the wrong time does that mean that if you had been president and vice president to saddam hussein believe how is what things ma as the saddam hussein needed to be in front of john kerry now i've consistently said that is why we voted for the resolution but it also means that it to be done the right way and doing it the right way and hear that we would pay that we did the weapons inspectors in time to find out what we now know that in fact there were no weapons of mass destruction that we didn't like

our football which are a kind of osama bin on the people who attacked us on september the eleventh we went in afghanistan following the right thing but there was the right decision and we are military performed for at the clay only had osama bin ladin for a durable with the tenth mountain division up in uzbekistan a violent we have the finest military in the world and what we did we turned this is the man who masterminded the greatest mass murder and terrorist attacks in american history and one of the administration decided that they gave the responsibility of capturing or killing saddam and i mean some of that log two afghan warlords who just a few weeks before i had been working with the samba are one and this is not complicate we were attacked by i'll try that and osama bin ladin we went into afghanistan in very quickly the administration made a decision

to divert attention from that and instead plan for the invasion of iraq and these connections out what the american people in this very clearly listen carefully what the vice president say because there is no connection between saddam hussein and the attacks of sept general of the period the cincinnati eleven commission has said that true colin powell has said it's true but the blast was that he'd suggested that there is there is not any connection without trial is tenuous at best mr vice president had ninety seconds to respond with senators got his facts wrong i have not suggested there's a connection between iraq and the nine eleven but there's clearly an established a wacky track record with her and the point is that that's the place where the most likely to see the terrorists come together with weapons of mass destruction the deadly technology that saddam hussein had been used over the years the fact the matter is the the defensive line is that they are not prepared to deal

with states that sponsor terror the government view about how to use us military force to defend america we heard senator kerry say the other night after that there'll be some kind of a global test before us troops are deployed preemptively to protect the united states that's part of the track record that goes back to the nineteen seventies when he ran for congress the first time and said troops should not be deployed without un approval then in the mid eighties said he ran on the bases of cutting most of our other major defense programs in nineteen ninety one he voted against desert storm it's a consistent pattern over time those issues little tough talk in the midst of a campaign or as part of the presidential debate cannot obscure a record of thirty years of a senate defense issues and they get absolutely no indication based on that are going to be willing to go forward and aggressively pursue the war on terror caught a strategy that we're able to feed our enemies and guarantee that the united states doesn't it didn't get attacked by the likes of your turn to a

topic that we're so i ask you the two minute senators of vice president cheney tonight we mentioned afghanistan we believe that osama bin ladin is hiding perhaps in a cave somewhere along the afghan pakistan border in a second term what is your plan to capture him and then to neutralize those who have sprung up to replace him when we have we've never let up on some of them and they weren't actively and aggressively pursued him captured or killed thousands of archive of various places around the world especially in afghanistan and will continue to more aggressively pursue him a nonprofit and eventually will get the key to success in afghanistan as ben again going to go after the terrorists which we've done and also take down the taliban regime which has allowed them to function in effect sponsors if you will for the al qaeda organization john edwards too many years and six months after one in afghanistan announced that it was chaotic the situation during the world wars

or what they call here we are soon a half years later or four days away from a democratic election first one in history in afghanistan with ten million dollars to register the poll nearly half of them women that election will put in place a democratically elected government will take over next december the warmest progress in afghanistan and in fact there are actions by the way john edwards said today of years ago is that wall the fact is as we go forward in afghanistan we will pursue now some of them on the terrace as long as necessary to stand in the afghan security forces so they can take responsibility for their own security will keep us forces there we have about sixteen thousand and that is one is necessary he says the afghans in terms of dealing with the other security situation that they're making significant progress well we've got to president karzai's in power they have done wonders writing a new constitution for the first time ever the schools are open young girls are going to school women are going to vote when they're even

eligible to run for office this is a major major progress toward the democracy in afghanistan they no doubt about the freedoms about anything to address that someone did get a role but it was in john kerry and john edwards they got all we're way ahead of solomon a lot of court they left the jobs of the afghan warlords they then deported their attention from the very people who attacked the center or as a song knowing about something the vice president said just a minute ago because these distortions would continue he said that the damage of this global best what john kerry said this is this clear is dated anybody whose lives he said we won't we will find paris where they are until before they ever do harm to the american people first we wanted this countryside he defended this country as a young man he would defend this country as president he announced that he also said very clearly that he will never get any country the job fall over the security

of the united states of america now now the vice president elect and that wasn't said and the president would think that the reality of reality as it was say here's what actually happened in afghanistan regardless of this was the scenario that they pay for afghanistan's lot of iraq what's actually happened as though they're now providing seventy five percent of the world's opium not only about seventy five percent of the world's opium large parts of the country or an individual drug lords and warlords big parts of the country are still insecure and the reality is the part of afghanistan eastern afghanistan where osama bin ladin is is one of the one of the hardest places to control in the most insecure <unk> vice president within thirty seconds twenty years ago we had a similar situation or something we had a growing insurgency control roughly a third of the country seventy five thousand people dead and we help reluctance i was there as an observer of congress the human drive for freedom the determination that these people quote was unbelievable was the terrace with them

in sheet of polling places as soon as they left the voters to come back and live i would not be denied the right to build and they'll sell the jurors will live there because we help reluctant to cover the cancer doesn't apply in afghanistan and that the vice president has said that we should focus on state sponsors of terror is iran has moved forward with nuclear weapons from their more dangerous today than there were four years ago north korea has moved forward with their nuclear weapons program not want a nuclear weapons the sixty eight nuclear weapons and there's vice president has been an advocate for over a decade for lifting sanctions against iran the largest state sponsor of terrorism on the planet summa stagnation which now will not lose them we should strengthen the sanctions no question to senator edwards and i don't want that to let go of a global test questions first because i want people to understand exactly what it is is you said that senator kerry did say he said you've got to do you know good years after the pre emptive action the last debate he said you've got to do it in a way that passes the test that passes the global test

we're country men are people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and can fruit to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons why does a global test if it's not a global the title is a first he said in the end of the sign second segment i remember precisely what was connected with which is red but he said while we will never give anyone of a job or the security of the united states of america what he's saying is we're going to go back to the proud tradition of the united states of america and presidents of the united states of america for the last seventy five years for i wouldn't actually tell the american people the choice will tell the truth about what's happening we're not been a suggestion that things are going well in iraq or anyplace else when in fact they're not going to make sure the american people know the truth about why we using force and what the explanation for that is a nice not just the american people were also going to make sure that we tell the world the truth because the reality is for america to lead for america to do what he's done for

fifty years before this president vice president came into office it is critical that we be credible it is critical that they believe that when america takes action they can trust what we do and what we say we say the united nations will we say a direct conversations with leaders of other worlds that want the other countries they need to know that the credit of the united states is always good because they will not flawless without them and forcefully we're saying the consequences of that right now is the rule of the reasons they were having so much difficulty getting others involved in africa in iraq you know we've taken ninety percent of the coalition casualties merrick and taxpayers have or ninety percent of the cost of the effort in iraq and we see the result of that not being a coalition the first gulf war boston marathon are they involved with two hundred billion dollars and counting john kerry will never give up control over the security

even as there's an america that any other country we will not outsourced our responsibility to keep this country safe is the vice president with ninety seconds to respond well when the nine percent when you include the iraqi security forces that have suffered casualties as well as the allies they've taken almost fifty percent of the casualties in operations in iraq which leaves the us with fifty percent not ninety percent but the cost was two hundred am you probably want their vote for that but the hundred and twenty because in fact what has been allocated director estimates for afghanistan once there the you know allies have stepped forward and agreed to reduce demand for direct the debt to the tune of nearly eighty billion dollars by one estimate that was fourteen million advance in terms of direct aid foote's the overall allied contribution financially about ninety five billion dollars not to the record twenty billion we got that no better than forty percent two factions are

you also have a situation where we talk about credibility is awfully hard to convey a sense of credibility to allies voted for the war and he declared wrong or wrong place wrong time you vote for the war in any voting and supporting the troops when they needed equipment with you spare parts and the ammunition body armor you're not credible iraq because of the enormous inconsistent seasons john kerry and you have cited time after time after time and of course the campaign whatever the political pressures the moment workforce that's where you're not been consistent and there's no indication of all the john kerry has a conviction to successfully carry through want to know what the vice president has to say is just a complete distortion and people saw john kerry on thursday that they donate the vice president for the president to tell them what they saw they saw a man who would strong conviction who is resolute he made it very clear that he would do everything that has to be done to find tears to keep the

american people say he laid out his plan for success in iraq made it clear that we were committed the success in iraq would happen because we have troops on the ground there and because they've created a haven for paris is the vice president of thirty seconds your rhetoric center would be a lot more credible if there was a record of that that out there is that you cannot use dropped off during the course of a nine eleven that in the presidential campaign to obscure thirty year record in the united states senate and part of that by john kerry who has consistently come down on the wrong side of all major defense issues that he's faced as a public official mr vice president and they question for events in this response when the president says that senator kerry is involved a name enemies and you say that we could get hit again if boehner is make the wrong choice in november are you saying it would be a dangerous thing to have john kerry as president and say specifically that i don't believe he has the qualities we need in comanche because i don't think it's based on his record that he would pursue the kind of aggressive policies that

need to be pursued different i think these terrorists when you to battle them overseas so we don't have about the marrow i'm not challenging john kerry spectators i said in my acceptance speech in new york city the republican convention that we respected his service in vietnam and i got applause for that we've never criticizes big question is his judgment and a judgment small and the records there for anybody was looking in that nineteen eighty four when he ran for senate he opposed or called for the elimination of a great many major weapon systems that were crucial to one in the cold war and art are important today to our overall forces when saddam hussein invaded kuwait and occupied in nineteen ninety nine when he stood up on the floor the senate and voted against going in to liberate waiting for saddam hussein got to run back to iraq at the problem we have is that if you look at his record he doesn't display the qualities of somebody who has conviction another specter this particular operation we've seen a situation in

which first they voted to commit the troops sent in for john edwards and john kerry then they came back and when the question was whether not you provide resources it needed body armor spare parts in addition evidence that i can find out what happened initially and then i looked and figured out what was happening was howard dean was making major progress and immigrant farmers running away with a primer is based on and i work so they in effect they decided they would get in and we're going to vote against the troops nothing can stand up the pressures that howard dean listen i can we expect them to stand out sen reid had ninety seconds one thing is very clear is that a long resume there's not equal good judgment and we say over and over again over the missed judgments made by this administration only go back to watch this what the vice president said this is a continuation of the things you've been doing and fortune on the campaign trail is a continuation of what he began his first venture work tonight john kerry

has voted for the biggest military appropriations bill in the country's history john kerry has voted for the biggest intelligence appropriations in the country's history this vice president when he was secretary of defense cuts over eighteen weapons systems including the very ones he's criticizing john kerry force a foreboding against these are weapons systems a big chocolate which the vice president himself suggested we get rent out after the cold war the reality is that john kerry has consistently supported the very man that he served with in vietnam and let only eighty seven but it was clear at the time of that that they had no plan to win the peace were saying the consequence is that every day on the ground right now we stood up and said for our troops we must have a plan to win the peace we also thought it was wrong they have a twenty billion dollar coin out of wood seven and had begun was going to

go for a no bid contract for how important the vice president for republicans long they're wrong that surprise less than thirty seconds and it's on land on i think the record speaks for itself these are two individuals who had been for the war when the headlines were good and against that when authorities were bad we have not seen that kind of consistency that commander in chief has to have in order to be a leader in wartime in order to be able to see that strategy through the victory one win the war on terror it seems to me it's pretty clear the choices to abortion and john kerry there is an absolutely clear consistent from the beginning that we must stay focused on the people who attacked us that saddam hussein was a threat that needed to be addressed directly but the weapons inspectors needed to have time to do their job and they had time to do their job they would have discovered what we now know and that saddam hussein had no weapons that saddam hussein has no

connection with nine eleven that is that saddam hussein has a little or no connection with alcott sen edwards no question tn had tremendous risk on par with you have said senator kerry have said that you're going to do it in order to get us out of the problems in iraq is to internationalize the effort yet french and german officials have both said they had no intention even if john kerry is a letter that sending any troops into iraq for any peacekeeping effort does that make your accurate or your plan to internationalize this effort same time it will let's start with what we know what we know is that the president the vice president have not done the work to build the coalition that we saw dramatically different than the first gulf war we know they haven't done it and we know they can do if they didn't buy wages project the allies were in the lead up to the war they also rejected an effort to do the reconstruction in iraq and that has consequences it's what we believe is as part of our entire plan for iraq

and we have a plan for offering them up they have a plan for audit more the sun we have a plan for success in their plan includes speeding up the training of the military we have less than half of the staff that we need their complete the tri second make sure that the reconstruction has sped up in a way that iraq would say some tangible benefit for what's happening and by the way we needed it we can take the rockies out of iraq to try it is not secure an episode ideas on the ground they can't be trying their we can take the matter up for purposes of trying we should do whatever has to be done to train the rockies and the speed up that process that works in conjunction with making sure the elections take place on time right now the united nations which is fraught with elections in january has about thirty five people that's compared with a much smaller country like east timor where they had over two hundred people on the ground you need more than thirty five people own

lesson in cleveland much less in iraq and we invited st elections all skilled scheduled this is going to have the reality is with credibility with the rest of the world and as a real plan for success success breeds contribution reeves joining the coalition now available but what the vice president said the attacks us about the troops they sent forty thousand american troops in iraq without the body onto it they set them without the armored vehicles while they're all the ground fighting they lobbied accomplished at the pump this is the hot pockets as the vice president have ninety seconds where to start to someone in increases in the fact that matters the troops wouldn't have but they have a few dozen little interaction was in the effort they don't have a plan basically as an actor you made the comment that gulf war coalition and nine he wants for astronomers know we had thirty four countries and we met there today

with get rich scientists it's hard after john kerry referred her allies as a coalition of the course and the bride to go out and persuade people to send troops to participate in this process you end up with a situation in which i talk about the meaning in effect in india sacrifice of our allies and say it's wrong or wrong place wrong time the mother was sent troops make no sense at all is totally inconsistent there isn't a health plan that our most important ally or uncaring and contract specifically to uk recently addressed a joint session i presided over the speaker the house and john kerry rushed out immediately after his speech was over with or he came and he thanked american contributions and sacrifice of pledge to hold these elections or not intended mainly criticized and challenged his credibility that is not the way to win friends and

allies and i have never been and to the coalition cantor and it refers to the vice president suggest that we had assigned number of countries involved now that we had in the first gulf war the first gulf war cost the american people five billion dollars and regardless of what the vice president says where a two hundred billion dollars and counting not only that ninety percent of the coalition casualties <unk> first the coalition casualties or american casualties nine percent of the cost of this effort are being born by american taxpayers it is the direct result of the things of this administration is the vice president's last count the sacrifices contribution iraqi allies to their country they're in the fight they're increasingly the ones out there putting their necks on the line take that their country from the terrorist and regime elements that are still left their teams for a job and for you to demean their sacrifice strikes me as long as dion well it

is indeed you suggest somehow they should count because you want to be able say that americans are taking on a persona second you cannot succeed in this effort into not wanting to recognize the enormous contribution iraqis are increasingly making to their own future well when they take on responsibility for governments which they're going to take responsibility for their own security which increasingly you question somewhere topic because i won a circle back to your question which are not quite certainly got an answer to file the gratitude for senator edward than just a question of american intelligence or that we read about today is true and if vice president cheney ordered it and asked about this do you think that in the future that your administration or the bush administration would have sufficient an accurate enough intelligence to be able to make decisions about where to go next limits before sort of us presence in the coverage of the question though this unfortunately what the life of the vice president is telling people is

inconsistent with everything they say every single day it's a continuation all when there's a strong connection between al qaeda and saddam hussein it's not true it is a continuation of at least insinuating that there's some connection between battle of the saddam hussein it's not true and say to the american people as the president said last thursday the vice president continues to cite tonight that things are going well in iraq contrary to what people have been there have signed including republican leaders contrary to what everyone america sees a live television every day americans being kidnapped people being beheaded parts of the country under the control and insurgents even today and the control of the insurgents the vice president is still might not said anything about what mr romer said about the failure to have adequate troops say to be able to secure the country in the short term you know barbershop in all look at where we are

not is a direct result of the failure of playing the fader have others involved in this effort this is not an actual now to go back to court if we want to do the things that need to be done to keep this country said we can't be dragged kicking in swimming pool one thing that everybody does agree is a nine eleven did change that but what's happened is this administration opposed the creation of the nine eleven commission to find out what happened what we needed to do they oppose the creation of a partner carmen of homeland security and therefore we can't react that way we must be more aggressive with john kerry as president announced that we are committed to immediately implementing all other reform suggested by the amount of information so we have the information we need to fight terrorists and pushed them before they heard us a surprise when the story appeared today about this report this one i asked for i asked an awful lot of question that for my job as vice president of sea ice

spokesman was quoted in that story saying they've not yet reached the bottom line there's still debate over this question of the relationship between sarah palin and saddam hussein were also points out that at one point some as a callous people were arrested saddam personally intervened haven't released supposedly at the request of the sort that will be no monsters or cow we know is was running a terrorist camp training terrorists in afghanistan we know that women in afghanistan and eight and migrated they get they set up shop in baghdad where he oversaw the poisons facility up from all or the terrace for developing reisen and other deadly substances to use when i was still in baghdad today he is responsible for most major car bombings killed or maimed thousands of people he's the one you will see on the evening news beheading hostages it is without question a bad guy he is without question a terrorist he was in fact in baghdad before the war and he's in baghdad

now after the war the fact of the matter is that this is exactly the kind of tracker years we have to deal with as are powered by taking him out and that's exactly what we'll do mr vice president in june two thousand when you were still ceo of halliburton you said that us businesses should be allowed to do business with iran because quote unilateral sanctions almost never work after four years is as vice president now enter with iran having been declared by administration as part of the axis of evil you think these two we that we should lift sanctions on iran no i do not been going at the time our son talking specifically about this question of unilateral sanctions what happens only oppose unilateral sanctions the us unless there's a collective effort than other people move in and take advantage of the situation and you don't have any impact except to penalize american countries we've got sanctions on ran now we may well one of the un security council and asked for even tougher sanctions if they don't look at their obligations and the initial the international atomic energy agency among

nonproliferation treaty we've dealt with around different because iran has not yet as a wrecked it violated twelve years resolutions by the un security council are working with the brits and the germans and the french then negotiate with iranians recently or were actively involved in the in the board of governors of the international atomic energy agency in a seder be a follow up meeting in november to determine whether or not iran's leading up to their commitments and obligations and they aren't my guess is that the board of governors work and then sending a letter to the un security council for the application of initial psychic what exactly were the us and north korea are some of those things well chinese the south koreans the japanese and others for a different number one a great buy products for example what would interact in afghanistan is that after five days after we captured saddam hussein will mark a coffee and when he came

forward to announce it means the surrender all of these nuclear materials the united states which he has done this is one of the biggest sources of proliferation in the world of date in terms of the threat that is represented by the suppliers network provided that and a promise to aq khan has been shutdown with a major progress in dealing here with a major issue with respect to nuclear proliferation will continue to press very hard in the north koreans and the iranians as well center for the vice president talks about their new member are someone associated with the patent in iraq there are sixty countries who have members of o'connor and how many of those countries are weak that not only that his thoughts about iran the reality about iran is iran has moved forward with their nuclear weapons program on their watch the city responsibility to deal with it to the europeans now the vice president as you pointed out

were spoke out loudly or lift insight as john kerry and i believe we need to strengthen the sanctions on iraq including closing the loophole that allows companies to use the subsidiaries offshore subsidiaries to do business with iran and that you helped organize ago a connection with the eighty seven billion in the race and this question this role because he was putting aside just within sight of where israel our ears while we didn't think albert you have an arabic country while he was ceo of halliburton they paid millions of dollars in fines for providing false information own solar companies like enron and gimlet they did business with libya and iraq two sworn enemies of the united states they're now under investigation for having rob ford officials during that period not only that they've done the seven and a half billion dollar no bid contracts in iraq instead of our their money being withheld which is the way it's normally done because they're under investigation david to continue to get their money is vice

president of research on women's rights i've got the pill el reason they did mention how important is because they can throw up a smoke screen they know the charges are false long they know that if you go for example through fact checked dot com an independent website spliced the universe offensive and he didn't get the specific details with respect to albert it's an effort that they've made repeatedly to try to confuse voters and to raise questions but there's no substance of the church is a fat the facts are the vice president's company that he was ceo of the business was sworn enemies of the united states paid millions of dollars in fines for providing false financial information is under investigation for bribing foreign officials the same company got a seven a half billion dollar no bid contracts the rule is before the money's supposed to be withheld when they're under investigation as they are now

reading overcharge the american pet but they're getting every down that one time had led both mcneil state senator edwards as we wrap up before passing further said you were talking about the israeli palestinian conflict today a senior member of islamic jihad was killed in gaza have been suicide bombing targeted assassinations more attacks all this continuing at a time when the united states he's absent in the cheese making process what would your administration do first of all do you agree that the united states is absent maybe you don't but what would inefficient do to try to resolve that well first of all i do agree that we've been largely absent on power somewhat largely absent some of these mortgage losses over the last four years and let me just say a couple of things and talk about where we are now first the israeli people not only have the right to defend themselves they should defend themselves they have an obligation to defend themselves

rather if i can just for a moment a rehearsal story i was in jerusalem couple years ago three years ago and all this the two thousand was staking detail we left in the morning get into the airport ley and later in the day i found out that that same day not far from where we wish we were stern ellis of our a pizzeria with was hit by suicide bomb injuring fifty people killed six children were killed one of the israeli people supposed to count happened they continue to watch israeli children killed by suicide bombers killed by terrorists they have on the right and the obligation to defend themselves and we know that the prime minister has made a decision of historic decision unilaterally withdrawal from gaza is imported from america to participate in helping with that process now gaza is being used as a

platform for attack the israeli people that has to be a stop in israel has a right to defend itself they don't have a partner for peace for a sermon or have a partner in that in any legitimate partner for peace now my day is very important for marriage across america to crack down on the saudis in the light of public prosecutions of financing terrorism says now as the situation in iraq because iran is an enormous threat to israel and israel if it is a vice president and then i would go back to the last comment and the noncombatants your pasta the reason they keep trying to attack is because some obscure their own rhetoric and sen friendly ever appeared in the sense numbered establish you'd miss thirty three out of thirty six meetings in addition to commit almost seventy percent of the names of the intelligence committee we missed a lot of key votes on tax policy on energy and medicare reform your hometown newspaper has taken to calling

the senator gone you've got one of the worst attendance records in the united states senate now and like best is vice president i am the president sent the presiding officer came up in the senate most instance when they're in session the first time i ever met you just when he walked on stage tonight with respect to israel and palestine when the young suicide bombers and partly generated by saddam hussein who were paid twenty five thousand dollars to the families of suicide bombers i personally think one of the reasons that we don't have as many suicide attacks today in israel as we had in the past is because of homs no longer business wouldn't strong supporters of israel the president to step forward and put in place a policy basically that said we will support the establishment of tuesday's first person ever to say will establish and support a palestinian state next door who is really a first the hestia an interlocutor you can trust to deal with and we'll have that we don't

have now the us her father has to reform the palestinian sister sarah's it certainly is a second there was a complete distortion of our shop they that the vice president surprised to hear him talk about records when he was one of four and thirty five members of the united states house is one of ten to vote against headstone one of four to vote against banning plastic weapons that can pass the metal detectors he voted against the department of education he voted against funding for meals on wheels were singers he voted again it's a holiday for martin luther king he voted against the resolution calling for the release of nelson mandela in south africa it's amazing to hear and criticized in america or doctors thirty seconds i think his record speaks for itself and find its numbers the case will move on to domestic matters ominous question that with the senate to vice president cheney the census bureau knows because the senate i didn't i get

at the cia has asked him about israel even though we didn't have to talk about it is illegal in the centers that the census bureau writes cleveland as the biggest port city in the country vary one percent jobless rate you two gentlemen are pretty well off to get welfare cells in the private sector what can you tell people of cleveland of people cities like cleveland that your administration will do to better their lives when there are several things that i think need to be done and i mean we of course then through a difficult recession and in the aftermath of nine eleven we lost over a million jobs after that attack we think the key is to address them basic fundamental issues at the presence already working then i think probably the most successful thing we can do with respect to ending poverty is to give people jobs there's no better antidote to poverty than a well paying job last summer to take care of her own family to do that we have to make america the

best place in the world of business and now that means we better deal effectively with tax policy we've got to reduce the litigation costas build in our society that it provided adequate medical care and make certain that we can in fact create the opportunities that they are viable that process i zero in particular an education i think the most important thing we have a first class public school system i'm a product of public schools and the president its first legislative priority was the no child left behind act was first piece of legislation when it has to get past that first summer on a bipartisan basis women have taken on board the effort and it does several things and it establishes high standards it's the same time the sense that the system of testing respects to our school system so in a spanish accountability of parents and make certain that they understand how well their students are doing and they have the opportunity to move

things out of poor performance will also have to improve schools it strikes me that that is absolutely a part of what needs to be done from the standpoint of education is also important as we go forward that's the time one and be able to take what we've done for elementary education in the secondary education it's working and we've seen no reports about a reduction in the achievement gap between the majority students and minority students were making significant progress senator edwards had ninety seconds to your questions about jobs it was about jobs it was about poverty i thought i thought it was about jobs and poverty religious talk about education because with a much talked about is what happens in the town that they have been in office in the last four years one point six million private sector jobs have the last two point seven million manufacturing jobs have been lost or has had real consequences and less likely to clean the wonderful this thing was is that a lot of the right things but as the us army ranger country one out of almost two children in cleveland are now living in

poverty during the time that that the vice president president in office four million more americans have fallen into poverty and with the most striking a starling is there the first president in seventy years and i'm talking democrats republicans presents its presence of lettuce that were war through the korean war the vietnam war cold war everyone on creating jobs until this point we have to do better we have a plan with them to get rid of text about what they're for outsourcing jobs elementary people here that's a fundamental difference with us the administration says over over the outsourcing of millions of american jobs as good if we're against it we want to get rid of tax cuts for companies sending jobs overseas we were bouncers like to get back to fiscal responsibility and we will invest in the creative innovative jobs in the future when know that a hundred and eleven million american taxpayers that benefited from an income tax cuts without thirty three million students have benefited from the cholla far that fourteen million seniors who've benefited

from oil we have reformed the medicare system the democrats on this prescription drug benefits for years the platform i never got it down the president about how we also dropped five million people to lay off the federal income tax rolls of an owner if any federal income tax at all so the story i think is a good one and the data he's using his own babies for two thousand three doesn't include any of the gains we've made in the last two years we've added one point seven million jobs in the economy for a second vice president present like talk about their experience on the campaign trail may is that people have lost their jobs may instead fall into poverty or family incomes are down while the cost of everything is going up medical calls up the heist ever been over the last four years we have this mess in iraq was about was i don't think the country can take a warrior's spirit this next question goes to you senator edwards senator kerry said in a recent interview that he absolutely will not

raise taxes on anyone under you aren't under two hundred thousand dollars a year have any guarantee that and also cut the deficit in half as he's promised to chose what we will do what they did not you know if you look at what's happened over the last of the last four years we have grown from a five trillion dollars forget to serve was when george bush took office to a three trillion dollar rejected as they promise of the two trillion surplus assad and so secure not that not only that as the biggest fiscal turnaround in american history and there's no wind and saw the water but just reported they have several trillion dollars of additional tax cuts and spending no suggestion of what they're going to do about john kerry and i believe we have a moral responsibility not to leave trails of dollars of debt to our children and our rental service oriented that venture question to pay for the things that we believe need to be done it's just talk about healthcare and also

about education because we have plans on both those subjects more unusual but that's there's nowhere when they hear this because of an exaggeration but on the campaign trail wall that tax cuts for people unlike over two hundred thousand dollars a year we will do that we wanted keep the tax cuts or implies for people who might listen to one thousand dollars and give additional tax cuts to those middle class that tax cuts for health care tax cuts to help families pay for their college tuition tax cuts for chocolat is families are struggling and hurting and they need more sexually novelist actually with the help get us back to about my job we also wanted it to some of the bureaucratic spending and watch one of the amazing things that happened is they've actually later or more supervisory people people the supervisory level in this government we also won a closing corporate loopholes now be honest that we can eliminate this deficit people heard that over and over and over in four years we cannot do when to dig the hole what we can cut the deficit and had

equipment we can move this country tobacco after fiscal responsibility and the sentence was vice president the young kerry record on taxes is one basically of voting for a large number of tax increases many times the united states senate there's a fundamental philosophical differences between the present myself who believe it will let the american people keep more of what they earned and we ought to empower them to have more control over their own lives i think the kerry edwards approach basically is to raise taxes and to give government more control over the lives of the digital citizens with a huge long way to go this fundamental difference of opinion here they talk about the top bracket and going after only those people in the top bracket well the fact of the matter is a great many of our small businesses pay taxes under the personal income taxes rather than the corporate rate and about nine hundred thousand small businesses will be here if you do in fact do what they wanted to know the

top bracket that's not smart because seven out of ten jobs in america are created by small businesses not one attacks a bad idea to increase the burden on those folks the army senator himself center in the course the farmers that the kerry plans would drive us deeper into deficit those were the senator's words about about his running mate but the matter is the president and i will go forward to make the tax cuts permanent policy that's only avenue but with fiscal restraint will also drive the deficit down fifty percent in the course of five years we are committed to cutting back anything and operatives in the debate that that he gets backup that fiscal responsibility john kerry was the vice president has voted voted or co sponsor over six hundred times tax cuts for the american people over six hundred pounds and there is a philosophical difference quick lesson then we are for more tax cuts for the middle class then therefore have been for the last four years but we are not for more tax cuts for multi millionaires who they are

it is a fundamental difference in what we think needs to be done thirty seconds before the us today the president signed an extension the middle class tax cuts of ten percent black i'm originally from the increase in child tax credit senators kerry and edwards weren't even that a vote for what became the final test next question goes to use this to vice president i want to read something you said four years ago this very setting freedom means freedom for everybody said it again recently when you asked about legalizing same sex unions and you use your family as experiencing a family experiences the context for your remarks he described and your administration's support for a constitutional ban on same sex unions your act four years ago in the state the subject came up and i said then and of the leap day freedom doesn't freedom forever but people are likely to choose any arrangement they wanted to anyone else's business that's a separate question from the issue of whether or not government should sanction or approve or give some sort of authorization of the world of these

relationships traditionally that's been an issue for the states the states to regulate marriage if you will calm that would be my perfect in effect what's happened is that in recent months especially massachusetts but also in california and massachusetts we had the massachusetts supreme court directly on state a massive the legislator massachusetts to modify the constitution to allow gay marriage and the fact is that the president felt that it was important to make it clear that that that's along with him goes far as he's concerned he says paulson for this administration and i support the president for every three seconds this song let me say first on an issue the vice president said in his last this report get this question i talk about tax policy continues to know that on the work they have put in place and want to put in place they up on millionaire sitting by the

swimming pool collecting their state to say how much money that might make their money from dividends talk pays a lower tax rate than the men and women who receive paychecks for serving on the ground in iraq now and i think that for john kerry had no we don't despair you will which they did we value work in this country and it is a fundamental that the two of them and us now as to this question when is a force that i think the vice president and his wife love their daughter i think they love repair man and you can't have anything that respect so the fact that they're willing to talk about the fact that they haven't yet although the fact that they were served as a wonderful fly no means a pants like that who love their children who were the children of a happy man i actually the marriage is between a man woman and so does john kerry also believe that should be partnership benefits for gay lesbian

couples and long term committed relationships but we should not use the constitution to divide this country no state the last two hundred years has ever had to recognize another state's merit this is using the constitution as a political tool no question but same subject as the vice president mentioned john kerry comes from the state of massachusetts which is taken as big a step as any state in the union to legalize gay marriage yet both you and senator kerry say you oppose it are you trying to have it both ways now i think we both since i'm playing all week we both believe that this goes though the end of what i just thought that we both believe that marriage is between a man a woman but we also believe that gay and lesbian sink a lesbian couples those who have been in long term relationships deserve to be treated respectfully they deserve to have benefits for example pay a gay couple now as a very

difficult one visiting the other when they're in the hospital or fried sample lives if heaven forbid one of them were passed away they had trouble right even arranging the funeral and those are not the kind of things that john kerry and i believe and i suspect that the vice president himself does not believe in that the butt we don't really do believe that marriage should be between a man a woman and i would go back if i can about the question you just as well which is discussed islam in order make sure people understand that the president's proposing a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage that is completely unnecessary under the law of this country for the last two hundred years knows that has been required to recognize those days most of it is this about my state of north carolina would not be required to record as america massachusetts which you just ask about there is absolutely no purpose in the law and in reality for this man is nothing but a

political appeal and is being used in an effort to divide this country on an issue that we should not be dividing america will be talking about issues like health care and job and what's happening in iraq not using an issue that divides this country it in a way that's so it for political purposes well mr vice president had ninety seconds like the same kind of words you said about that to think it'll move on to the next question this one's for you mr vice president president bush has divided john kerry for putting a trial where the ticket you yourself have said that lawsuits are partly to blame for a higher medical costs are you want to say that john edwards sitting here has been part of the problem well when i first

of all i'm not familiar with this case it's my concern is specifically with what's happened to our our medical care system because of rising malpractice insurance rates because we failed to adequately former medical liability structure i was in the next day will be july and ducks and they were deeply concerned because they were fearful that there would be another increase in malpractice insurance rates as a result of what they believe are frivolous lawsuits and that would put them out of business one doctor indicated get her rates had gone up so much that he's now to the point where she is screening patients she will take on risk patients anymore because the danger that that will generate a lawsuit and lost and for business this has had a devastating impact on the community top unsure about brightest

insurance in the state rates were in general practitioner of gone from forty thousand dollars year two hundred thousand dollars a year for an insurance policy we think this has a devastating impact on the quality of health care is it's a high risk patients don't get covered anymore we've lost to one of eleven overdue and practitioners in the country we think it can be fixed needs the effects now specifically we need to do is cap non economic damages wilson think the need to limit the awards that the trial attorneys take it was over fifty percent of the settlements go to turn is an administrative overhead we passed a medical liability reform to the house of representatives it's been blocked in the senate senator kerry's voted ten times against medical liability reform and i don't believe some american sports of either not the kind that would be needed american cities now who is a first of all i'm proud of the work that did on behalf of kids and families against the insurance fund the drug companies and the agent was we do have too many

lawsuits and the reality is there something we can do about john kerry and i have plans something that we would put more responsibility on the lawyers to require for a case about malpractice about doesn't it have occasionally by an annex parts of the time the cases serious and therefore sport can be far all the lawyers responsible for that certify that a lot of financially responsible if they don't do it at a three strikes in euro so the lawyer to file surrealist jason that means requirement loses the right to file these cases that way we keep the cases that the system the dome along insist they talk about for most cases we believe this is the dome along system should never exist but we don't really that we should take away the rights of people like valerie like it was a young girl who i represented five years old severely injured for life were defective swimming pool drain cover it turns out the company knew of twelve other

children who had either been killed or severely injured by the sign probably get the intel about the could fix that with a two set score best role john kerry and i always closed with the very latest in the world and out of insurance sen edwards so the question to use same topics do you feel personally attacked vice president cheney talks about a liability reform and tort reform and the president talks about having a trial lawyer and the ticket personally about a fifth of the i think the i think the truth is that what they're doing is talking about an issue that really don't have a great deal to do with what's happening with medical costs in this country nothing is a very serious issue and i would be the first to say that us presidents bob a few minutes ago that problem outright this point that's true israel is very real mandela doctors talk about is very serious and they get a squeeze from both

sides because they have told him we were for all the care that you know from the government or from healthcare provider of health care companies and conflicts that the malpractice costs are going up the spirit which is why we have proposed a plan to keep this is not a system that don't belong there was very important to put this in context because in context everything they're proposing according to the bipartisan congressional budget office now still about head of one percent of health care costs about half of one percent we had double digit inflation and healthcare costs we single largest rise in medical costs in the last four years in the country's history thirty five hundred dollars national nobody is what's used by the committee's findings to leno and medicare prayers of seventy percent on their watch again largest increase in medicare premiums in that in the history of medicare we think we have a plan to keep this as an oblong system after we also do what they have i mean americans have lost their health care coverage

medical call skyrocketing we have a serious health care plan to bring down cost for everybody to cover millions more americans and actually stand up the drug companies insurance companies which is administration has been unwilling to give the school and we think the lawsuit abuse is a serious problem in this country with a badly need tort reform i was in minnesota today we're visited an aircraft manufacturing plants great success for the same company that started twenty years ago nothing today that the second leading producer of just driven aircrafts in the country he told me that if it weren't for the increased cost of his liability insurance industry's product line that i really could hire two hundred more people that we've built into the system the enormous costs as a result of our current practice expect litigation have to find ways to get ahead or imagine medicare up seventeen percent somehow that that was something we

call snow oh a seventeen percent increase in medicare premiums was the direct result of the statute not the ninety nine cent john kerry voted for the status is a formula for party of medicare that says in effect as to cover twenty five percent of the cost the program and the reason the money and they're going to trust to make sure that we cover you were on the senator you had the advantage of a special tax loophole subject or s corporation which are set up so you were paid six hundred thousand dollars in medicare taxes would have gone into the phone and it's those kinds of loopholes that necessitate a premium increase the law that was enacted in nineteen ninety seven supportive of john kerry well first of all our ads paid all the taxes that that well when the vice president was ceo of how important they took care of took advantage of every offshore we poll of iowa college multiple offshore companies that for

avoiding taxes those that happens will be closed well because now because brady by now because we're the partial they'll be closed or whether they applied a corporation but the reality is health care costs are going up every day for the american people i hope we get a chance to talk more about health care thirty seconds we've done a lot to a reduced cost of health care in the medicare drug benefit that would be providing the seniors' big animals sex will provide upwards of thirteen hundred dollars a year to help them buy prescription drugs and drug savings and drug discount cards now available saves an estimated fifteen to thirty percent of the cost of prescription drugs for senior citizens so will we're moving in as many areas as we can to make certain we hold down to reduce health care costs i will talk about health care is a vice president at events that particular wanted a few decades and not about aids in china our africa but a judge here in this country where black women between the ages of twenty

five and forty four thirteen times more likely to die of the disease and their counterparts what should the government's role be in helping to end the growth of this epidemic list was a great tragedy when we think about the enormous costs are here in the united states and around the world of the aids epidemic and millions of lives lost millions more infected than face in a very bleak future in some parts of the world we've got to the entire reproductive generation has been eliminated the basic work as an economy the presence been deeply concerned about it and he has moved in and proposed and i got to the congress an authorization for a fifteen billion dollars to help international efforts to be targeted in those places where we need to do everything we can through a combination of education as well as as of providing the

kinds of the medicines that will help people control infections here in the united states we made significant progress though i had not heard those numbers with respect to the african american women i was not aware of that it was though that severe that the benefit because we have made progress in terms of oil rate of aids infection and i think primarily through a combination of education and public awareness as well as the development centers result of research of drugs that allow people to live longer lives even though they are infected obviously we need to do more than the fare at the second third fourth so what's happening in africa and russia and other places around the world with us presence but what the fifteen billion dollars for four eighth john kerry now believe that needs to be doubled and i might add on the first year of their commitment that you know significantly sure what they had promised and that we probably will get a chance to talk about after winning the setup invites the aids epidemic in

africa which is killing millions and millions of people and this is a frightening and not just for the people of africa but all fours also for the rest of the world that combined with the genocide that way now st vincent they are two huge moral issues for the united states of america with john kerry spoke about eloquently last thursday night here at home we need to do much more than the vice president spoke about and we suspect that you have the drugs available making sure that we do everything possible that provision there's a bigger question that you know we have five million americans who've lost their health care coverage unless four years forty five million americans without health care coverage we have children who don't have health care coverage if it is if she is and adults don't have access to preventive care if they're not getting the health care that they and the day after day after day the possibility of knowing

developing areas another problem and from a lot of the problem developing other life threatening diseases there every day dave there was still capable of our business the senator edwards you have two minutes ten men and women have been nominees of their parties since nineteen seventy six the vice president you have a weak government will experience if any of them will qualify to be a heartbeat away from the american people wall in their president and there was basically three times they want to know that their president or vice president we all know that they have a judgment that you tell the truth john kerry and i will tell the american people the truth during the time that i had so that in detail the intelligence committee in the senate of traveling to of the places we've talked about like

afghanistan pakistan middle east turkey meeting with leaders of nato i have it very clear idea of what has to be done to keep this countryside threats with isis terrorism killing your parents and stopping them before they can do damage to us making sure that we stop the spread of nuclear weapons i agree with john kerry on thursday night as the danger of a nuclear weapon getting in the hands of terrorist who won the greatest threats that america faces with the one thing that we know from this administration is that first of all i don't klein gap along political resume about present yes that's just the truth the american people know that it deserved but what we know from this administration is a long resume does not equal good judge to hear the judge in my first priority would be to keep this country safe i would find terrorists where they

are and stop them and kill them before they do to us we would stop the spread of nuclear weapons and we would also strength and the snow which mays providing equipment and training that they mate who wanted to raise the active duty forces the forty thousand double the special forces so we can find areas where they are and provide the tennis support for families health care housing that they deserve while their loved ones are serving and protecting us as the vice president have ninety seconds that answer question about this one of patients out that was the question i am i think the important thing in picking a vice president from that varies from president present the present approach was when george bush asked the design on obviously wasn't the cousins were military wyoming seventy percent of all of those three electoral votes dramatically important last time around when he said he

wanted me to do was to sign on because of my experience of the amenity to help them and that's exactly the way he is and i think from the perspective of the nation it's worked in our relationship and this administration on its work in part because i've made it clear that an enemy for the political aspiration so i think that's been and that allows the president to know that my only agenda is his agenda not worried about what some precinct committeeman i was were thinking of me with respect to the next a round of caucuses in two thousand a home it's a very significant responsibility when you consider that lonesome ocean and takeovers raise nine states to make those decisions and it's happened several times in history the thing that probably is the most important consideration of enormous presence on the table

if it gets a second to get it back so the most important thing out for this process is what i now know about john kerry and year before know a better day summit though one candidate is led troops in battle he was a prosecutor putting people behind crime time for four hundred thousand cops on the street when with john mccain to vietnam to find out what happened here that isn't american people saw themselves on thursday night the straight result and back all and i myself have seen john kerry is ready to be commander in chief suffice for slager thirty second are clearly believe that george w bush did the commander in chief has already done for forty years and has demonstrated that question the conviction the vision the determination to win this war against their interstates of global climate conflict that reaches from the united states all oil on the global jakarta and of

those very special qualities of pi lincoln energy and i think the president has an agenda i'm not at all convinced his opponent does mr vice president picking up on that you've both to sing the praises of yoga tops of your ticket without mentioning them by name at all explained it was why you are different from your opponent starting with instruments i am different from john edwards well and in some respects probably more similarities and their differences and apportion story i don't talk about it sen edwards and then there's a listen to him i'd find some similarities like a relatively modest circumstances my grandfather never went to high school and the first in my family to graduate from college and i carried it to get the international brotherhood of electrical workers or six years have been laid off and hospitalized without health insurance have some idea the

problem is that people encounter armed person stories on in some respects those surprisingly similar with respect to home or how we spent our careers honestly made a choice of public service and the net for a good long time except earth in those elections that figures because i am an absolutely convinced that the threat we face now the idea of terrorists and that one of our citizen is very real that we have i feel very strongly that the significance of nine eleven home cannot be underestimated forces to think in new ways about strategy of the nation's security about how we structure forces and about how we use us military are some people say we should wait until we are or attacked before we use force i would argue we've already

that's a lot more people on nine eleven and lost for arbor and i'm a very strong advocate of a very aggressive us policy implemented a tourist and those supporters how has the president we worked that one of us alongside men one thing that john kerry a map would agree with you about is that it is john kerry's they also one thing that we do agree about is is that made the office and going after terrorists the reality is that the best defense isn't that office which may second leaving america returning to his proud tradition of the last seventy five years old once again leading strong coalition so we can get these terrorist cells where they are before they can do damage to us and to the american people john kerry made clear on thursday night we made clear we made clear on thursday night that

we will do that and we'll do it aggressively bought there are things that need to be done to keep this country safe that have not yet been done for example three years after nine eleven we find out pretty ministration still does not have a unified terrorist watchlist it's amazing for me is what we want you know we still have one list that everyone can walk off the city terrace are entering this country were straining air passengers who were on their clients but we don't swing the cargo there are so many things that can be done to keep this country safe you have to be strong and you have to be aggressive but we also have to be smaller and there are things that have not been done the need to keep the american troops just respond thirty seconds ok will move on this close to senator edwards the popping has become a recurring theme in this campaign you may have noticed senator kerry change his mind about whether to vote to authorize the president to go towards president bush changed his mind about whether iowa homeland security the cartoons that idea

or nine eleven commission with the idea that far with a little flip flopping than well first of all the winners at the john john kerry has not to use his name that john kerry has been as of awe and completely consists of iraq who made very clear from the beginning and not after thought we said at the time that we had to confront saddam hussein and we had to help a coalition and a plan to be successful and the vice president so much about your earlier questioned paul bremer has now made clear that they didn't have enough troops and they didn't have a plan and the american people are saying the results of that every single day and spot of the prowl great disservice of our men and women in uniform what law and they should know something about flip flops no way that there's a lot of you in their administration they were first against the now eleven commission then there were four vote for the department of homeland security there were yesterday homeland security then there

were four they said they weren't the two trillion dollars of the syrup was that they came into office the side to protect social security then they changed their minds they say that they supported the troops and they walk through this world and around iraq and afghanistan they went to the congress and lobbying to have become a pay cut they say it that there were going to do something about health care in this country and that doesn't make them any worse they say that they were going to find there are no child left behind twenty seven billion dollars short the day over and over this administration had said one thing and done another this present say i wasn't until the night in two thousand and i say out for a national patient's bill rights and a southern baptist joy and mccain and senator kennedy and i wrote it that it passed in the senate will help patients polarized because one thing that the president announced that they've gone back and forth as the vice president

for my mom and think of a lot of words to describe senator kerry's position on iraqi consistent someone well i think if you look at that the record from voting for sending troops and voting against the resources they needed when they get their say and actually vote for the eighty seven billion before a vote against the same in response to a question moynihan know now yes yes exactly the same boat and then shortly after that same long walk that consistency doesn't come to mind is i consider that a worker beyond the question of troops as an interesting and important one we have looked for commanders on the ground in iraq for guidance on what they think that if they need more troops alaska's but the key here is not to try to solve the problems of iraq by putting in more american troops the key is to get the iraqis to take on the responsibility for their own security that's exactly where do

we put american troops in there in large numbers and don't get the iraqis into the fight to postpone the date when you can in fact bring our boys so it's vital we deal with a need for additional troops by offering iraqis into the or forty nine percent increase in funding for elementary and secondary education and non no child left behind that's a lot of money even by massachusetts message in thirty seconds the kitchen is evident on the mandates that they put on schools all over this country as a reasoned eight hundred teachers one of the reasons eight hundred teachers have been laid all right here in cleveland one third of our public schools are failing and some illustration half of african americans or dropping out a hospital had with hispanic americans are dropping out of law school john and i have i don't have the time that we have a clear plan to improve our public school that starts with getting our best teachers and the schools where we need in the most by creating incentives for them to go

there with the vice president when the talent behind they were for another against the border for another opposed to we are making significant progress and we are closing the achievement gap the results coming in from a number of studies show without question on math and science math and reading that in fact our minority students are hispanic and african american students have been better idea so what we are doing exactly the right thing they're the wounds than for the patriot act and against for the challenge behind him and against mr vice president rafael for a thirty second for each day that he's done a that there's such a job we will for accountability fan will for fast and john have no child left behind because we thought that the accountability and stands with the right thing a bit but then negatively of july well of this is you well i do because that's when the final question i apologize for giving you measured

fifteen seconds they're going at a vice president cheney whichever one of you is elected in november you mentioned those three electoral votes in wyoming and how critical that turned out to be a bit what their assigned have also is that your boys inherited very deeply divided i'm not sure it economically politically you name it how you set out with the vice president in a way that you weren't able to have these past four years to bridge that divide are well i must say it so i'm more than disappoints the last four years is that we've not been able to do what president texas for example when he was able to reach across the island and bring democrats won a major issues that we had some success early on i think the no child left behind that when we in fact had broad bipartisan support we have a lot of support for the patriot act when we pass on a bipartisan basis now we're saying no objections at that by the other side and all i know is is to continue to try to work it's a disappointment in the sense that i remember

from my earlier service when things were much different than in fact somewhat best friends in the congress with people like tom foley majority leader speaker of the house one of our strongest allies in congress one on security fences jack murtha democrat who's chairman of the defense appropriation subcommittee how we used to be able to do more together on a bipartisan basis that seemed possible these days i'm not sure exactly why i think an important may be changing in the majority minority status in the house and senate has been difficult both sides to adjust to the senate of course been very evenly divided fifty fifty fifty one forty nine and forty and fifty were you know i will keep working on is important force dry i believe that is the essential force to do everything we can to garner much support from the other side of the aisle as possible and we've had the support to keynote address at the convention was

delivered was elmo so there are some democrats who approach me in a second term the president said that he would unite this country and he was denied or not a divider and you're saying america more divided into ever seen washington more divided the reality is is not an accident it's a direct result of the choices they've made in their efforts they have created a vision of america we can do better than that in this country that we go back to the whole issue of healthcare because we tested but i think the american people deserve to know what we would do different an inside me and people losing their health care but everyone watches knows health insurance premiums through the roof we need to talk about what we would do that they haven't done first we make the same health care that's available members of congress a vote of all americans who have a cover all she is not only that we had a break now calls up cooling the catastrophic loss

so would bring down premiums and we'll give tax breaks directly to family signed up a thousand dollars a year and this is the vice president talked about that a few minutes ago so they can provide health care to their employees and we're also gonna finally do something about the cost of prescription drugs they blocked the line prescription drugs in this country from canada will allow they would not allow the government to use its negotiating power to get discounts for singers were go up were also and standup the drug companies and do something about these drug company as on television which are out of control he had thirty seconds response that the vice president were going tom reported no or start the er that the matter is the most important and significant change in the health care in the last several years was the medicare reform culture oh it's the most sweeping change in forty years medicare has to pay for or bypass surgery but didn't pay for the prescription drug that might allow you to avoid it

the fact is that when that came up senator kerry and senator edwards vote against provide prescription drug benefits to forty million senior citizens it's very very significant piece of the jewish their second set of chores all our prescription drugs in this country and canada of being with the american people with the drug plans there with the drugs they had a choice all the negotiating discounts in the medicare prescription drug bill being with the american people or with the drug plans though with the drugs they had a choice on the patient's bill of rights allowing people to make their own health care decisions about having insurance companies like to be with the american people be with a big insurance companies there with the insurance companies john kerry and i will always by the american people as previously agreed to go to closing statements now two minutes each point out senator evidently began when they hear you know when i was younger growing up i remember coming

down the steps into the kitchen there and more and then i'll see the glow the television then as i'm a father sitting at a table the ones peggy olson they won the report from or what it's done was learning math on talent now he didn't have a college education but he's doing what he couldn't get a better job in the mail we're still right now is also hopeful because i knew that i lived in a country where i could get a college education here's the tears i have grown up in the bride lives of american airlines flights are they now know that the vice president and the president will say it but you do it we say when incomes are going down and the cost of everything college tuition health care is going through the roof you say when

you sit at your table it's not and there's an empty chair because a loved ones serving in iraq or afghanistan with their immediate use four more years of the side of john kerry now believe that we can do better we believe in a strong middle class in this country that's why we have a plan to create jobs get and whether tax cuts for companies outsourcing jobs give tax cuts for companies that keep jobs in america is why we have a health care plan as well we have a plan to keep you safe and the big fix this mess in iraq the truth is and every four years you get to the side you have the ability to decide where america's going again john kerry asking you to give us the power the fight for you fight to keep that america that dream in america that i saw as a young man alive for every parent singing attention to vice president cheney well and thank you but a privilege to serve as your vice president's last four years and work alongside president bush

put our economy on an upward path we've cut taxes and one point seven million new jobs in the last year and will continue to provide opportunities for business and for workers we will be happy until every american was to work and find a job we believe that all americans ought to have access you available to medical care and that they have access to the finest schools and we're learning we can to preserve social security and make certain that it's there for future generations i worked for four presidents watch too is a close and i know there's no such thing as routine day in the oval office we saw nine eleven that the next president next decision the president has to make in effect the lives of all of us now we find ourselves in the midst of a conflict unlike any we've ever known faced of the possibility that terrorists could smuggle a deadly biological agent or nuclear weapon in the middle of one of our own cities that threat then the presidential leadership needed to deal with that is placing a special responsibility in all of you decide on november

second who will be a comanche the only viable option when in the war enters the one the president chose to use the power of the united states to aggressively go after the terrorists wherever we find them and also the whole new account states that sponsor they're now that we've captured or killed thousands of archive and taken down the regimes of saddam hussein and falling on it's important we stand a democratically elected government is the only guarantee that they'll never again revert to terrorism or the production of deadly weapons this is the task of our generation and i know firsthand the strength the president brings to be out overall outcome of the pan up on the ability of the american people and the strong leadership for the president to meet all the challenges that will face in the days and years ahead i'm confident we can do it and with that would come to the end of tonight's debate on behalf of the commission and the candidates like to expand the special expand the special thank you to the students and administration here at case western reserve university a reminder of the second presidential debate takes place

this coming friday at washington university in st louis missouri charles gibson of abc news will serve as moderator of that encounter where the candidate will field questions from an audience then on october thirteenth from arizona state university in tempe arizona bob schieffer of cbs news will moderate a debate on domestic issues throughout think you vice president cheney senator edwards from cleveland ohio i when i had four thank you and goodnight ninety minutes and fifty thousand for a vice presidential debate vice president cheney the republican nominee the republican incumbent democratic challenger sen john edwards of north carolina there was the family's women on the stage to join their respective candidates is that words if you have an iphone

or the edwards family characters whose presence family in the past they'd say well a lot of people don't want to come out on the stage while that that's no longer on the limited only two thousand more debates was important was implemented in miami here's senator alan simpson the wyoming create a vice president here no way shields and brooks syndicated columnist mark shields and your times columnist david brooks david i would characterize that they sometimes portugal bodies share a beer for a few jokes but was a tense debate edwards came home right from the get go and said he

lobbies for the american people and they really went on a bailout a couple of the wind blows region one that blow several times and seated instead of taking that one fan of mr they interact is essential issue of the selection they wrote up an iraqi was crackling away just off to the investigation said that they went back into serve normal patterns and some of the energy us into the lives of to me with that was of that they were they both got people in the various call to the faithful are sitting riled up to the village and i said is the last debate i was wrong to say it again i don't think it has an amicable is your overview mark to different events and john edwards first one on one debate the bill that way i actually know nervousness came out right from the start i n and was aggressive and dick cheney i think the vice president really not that the seals didn't come back about the third question wayne police to question about john kerry's votes of voting record unfolds on defense matters and that

this was supposed to be where cheney dominated it get he did not dominate on the on the discussion on that part of the debate and i thought that i thought edwards did there exceptionally well it's it was his first debate i didn't think the dynamic of the race changed the dynamic of the race was changed by kerry howe bush did they think that i have the press coverage but change one else that kerry went from that the loser to the underdog i think this certainly didn't interrupt the momentum of a very i thought the second half of the day at energy left ah it was interesting here in this year and they copy jim was interesting copy what they said about each other what they said but the attention of the suspense that the real feeling of drama i had subsided that's what david did going into this so we talk about ourselves around the newshour that john edwards mission tonight was to keep the cork kennedy mariah carey momentum going at in fact do that i think one of the film while the importance of sex in the first debate

was lifting democratic spirit scary supporters various i think he did that tonight ii there were several moments we had one liners and if they're democrat in the room that would not crazy is the democratic party crafts i think to that extent he kept things going and that there was the danger that he would appear like next to change at that there were some point when cheney was talking was a collie worry he seemed like a man given him and in charge and really had a depth of experience or maybe cooper edwards could match the mouse i would not say edwards looks well frankly quell like he did he did not and at any point you could point to and we play over over over again on tv there was no moment where he would appear obviously fit you agree i do agree and i thought well things that woods did it was addressed to me and i had no idea to do this was he anticipated what what you're doing there were cheney was going to go after him on his congressional record and he won that cheney's congressional record and bowling wanna for voting against plastic guns running against their head start and the end and then the flood flops that you knew that was coming he enlisted the flip flops of the administration first on nine eleven and

then he returned as sometimes so i thought in a sense that that indeed the tactics of bob edwards in the debate made sense and the vice president but they insisted that negotiations that is it down to the table to do this i think it certainly worked for them but i don't think in words appeared to be greatly disadvantage that it's a far right now a republican and democratic partisans are saying about all this and i'm margaret warner for that yet the party's reaction ideas from republican peter robinson he was a speechwriter for president reagan and then vice president george h w bush he's now a fellow at the hoover institution and democrat maria it's investing who was deputy chief of staff in the clinton administration and this election cycle services visor the howard dean's campaign react to the state how do you like the number one target in this kind of debate which is to both boost and a fan of the top of his ticket what i first thought on every time vice president cheney can try to keep the focus on terrorism sen edwards was very clear and find fish and the wrath and the misjudgment

the plot as there is in some ways an earlier the selection of the conduct of the war in iraq and the incredible those judgments that have been made and so in that sense edwards diddley i think the cheney had nothing but both had to go back to the record and basically keeps dating out in the face of the facts that that the war is going well and wrath when peter robinson first get your take on who got the better of the war on terror and a rock sort of dichotomy i'd score that vintage any perhaps seven rounds out of nine the first couple of questions edwards came out very hard and very fast and very energetic manner and i do think cheney was slow to kind of pick up steam but once he did that's exactly what it was like a battleship pristine are no visible emotion but slowly there was a kind of immense momentum there and slowly it seemed to me that he pulled ahead after the presidential debate no one would have doubted george w bush's conviction and determination the question for the faithful

but also oddly for undecided voters about the it was what about competence to these people know what theyre doing and cheney's command of the facts the figures the detailed history of the war on terror spoke to that question his loyalty to the president that cheney would have no doubt that george w bush's them and also spoke to that question so it seems to me that cheney did a tremendous service for bush tonight how do you say the way out cheney handled this question of confidence in the management well because you focus so much on the long experience i think edwards has the best one liners which as long resume does not equal good judgment and not is a key period because that isn't that on the record hands on senator edwards was able to consistently coming out and being consistent with decisions is not enough americans with peter robinson how well they pick who got the best of the debate over the flip flopping the whole question of changing one's mind that that the charges were

made a good scary but of course we heard john edwards and that one michel say you could level against wealth right and incidentally i thought when i thought of a very good job he was very fair and evenhanded and the question of pushing them both in my judgment about the best of the flip flop once again cheney edwards had some kids positions of items on which the administration to change position but they were unified laden's head start of nine eleven commission what what's the unifying theme here and cheney the flip flops were all on the war on terror and that devastating line if they couldn't stand up to the pressure that howard dean brought to bear on them and caroline edwards in the primaries how could it stand up to the pressure of al qaeda i just think that summed up the notion of inconsistency a lack of a kind of a record a conviction on the war on terror you think edwards dealt with that adequately i think he did i think the fundamental thing is that senator edwards and john kerry have a plan and why cheney kept

the treaty that was we're going on the right track with state with more of the same and i think the american people are going to choose that actually we need a change because the direction that this is going on we can all see that it is not the right direction and constantly saying we're right when the facts or otherwise it's not sufficient for the american people i think every interest in peter robinson tenth now the debate measures up for the history books terrence smith as that to help us put tonight's debate into some perspective we're joined by presidential historian michael beschloss by ellen fitzpatrick professor of history at the university of new hampshire and by age the beer brand's professor of history at texas a and m university welcomed all three of you michael beschloss how did this vice presidential debate that we've just seen how they compare with previous versions well you know terry they don't usually presidential campaign doesn't usually turn on a vice presidential debate except for if it's a close election walter mondale told jim lehrer about

nineteen seventy six that he thinks that his debate against bob dole may have made a difference in a very close election against gerald ford because that was the one as you remember when dole said you know i suffered world war two a democrat war people were put off by that mondale set you know when they occurred dole talk so bitterly about things like world war one in world war two as democrat wars they remember why they were democrats i don't think this debate tonight is that he looked back on as a pivotal moment in this campaign but at the same time george w bush was not thought of as having done a great job for five days ago had cheney done very badly tonight it would have been a great deal of damage of that campaign i think the fact that he performed well probably stems and bubbly of other brands that give is your view of the us and particularly in the context of vice presidential debates as we know and he was very solid performance

by both candidates and there was a good deal of substance in the date on both candidates presented their views forcefully are particularly on i don't know that it has changed a lot but then vice presidential debates tend not to do that vice presidents don't do the same thing that to five presidential candidate started saving a presidential candidates doing debates they're not they're not trying to get people to identify with them there's no likeability factor really been involved in these vice presidential debate on both of the candidates came out hitting very hard i felt as though they went to that over fifteen rounds i think the candidates made clear the differences between their campaigns and between their candidate and that regard i think it stands up well compared to other vice presidential debate watcher that i think we've seen something unusual here tonight which is an incumbent vice president having to defend an american war with troops on the ground as we think about the vice presidential debates which began in

nineteen seventy six the televised debates at that point saigon had already fell in nineteen eighty there was no vice presidential debate and then through the period of the late eighties and then into the nineteen nineties we really seeing the end of the cold war and so in some ways the most apt historical comparison really is nineteen sixty even though he was running for president richard nixon was arguing at that point that we face the most ruthless fanatical leaders the world has ever known that's a quote from a transcript and he said we're in a race for our survival and he emphasized the importance of having experience somebody who had walked the walk who could be an effective commander in chief and in some ways i think we saw a repetition of that tonight michael beschloss debate debate does seem to reflect or vice president cheney's unique an important role in this in this

administration oh i think they did and he was not shy about that sign the things that he had recommended to president bush but you know a lot of what he was essentially saying was i'm a figure of all these years of experience on a large figure in american life and he was quite outspoken and signed to john edwards essentially you haven't had a distinguished career you know sort of what what are you doing here and edwards is part and i was interested that they'll mention the and debates of nineteen sixty john kennedy while debating against richard nixon was essentially trying to say even though i'm a young senator micah debate against this famous vice president i'm a presidential stature that's what john edwards is trying to do tonight and i think you do professor brad four we look back on it as as noting either the coming out so to speak of john edwards says at a national candidate or any change in the view of vice president janet it's always a consideration and vice presidential debates whether these people are

presidential timber i think we're going to see more of john edwards i think he demonstrated that he has a command of the issues i think he showed a kind of crowd a toss that some people suspected that perhaps he didn't have it came off very well personally and it did a good job for his campaign our nigerian in a sense i think edward's midnight kennedy in nineteen sixty and saying i don't minimize the gravity of the threat from our enemies i take that very seriously and i also think you saw a kind of war weariness and dick cheney tonight the weight of the responsibilities that he his borat and the ongoing war in iraqi which is a formidable problem that this administration bears as does the country itself and as you say this unique moment where that dominated by historians for a thank you very much thank you terry and that ended for now we'll see you online and had our regular news our time tomorrow evening with

more analysis and reaction to tonight's debate for now from washington i'm jim lehrer thank you and goodnight it's been major funding for the newshour with jim lehrer has been provided by somebody different fishes new today at drake says in addition to continue says nathan so the future is beautiful

as bc communications we've always been a nation on the moon that's what wireless technology is such an important part of this be saying we are and will continue to be a very active member of the most modern society are going beyond the call and i see it and graham norton and the william and flora hewlett foundation working to solve social and environmental problems at home and around the world and the pew charitable trusts serving the public interest with information policy solutions and support for civic life and traditions these

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