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MR. LEHRER: Good evening. Leading the news this Wednesday, authorities in Miami worked at preventing more rioting in the city's black neighborhoods, the U.S. trade deficit increased again and in a pre-inaugural speech to schoolteachers, President-elect Bush said he would make good on his promise to be the education President. We'll have the details in our News Summary in a moment. Robin.
MR. MacNeil: After the News Summary, we examine the riots in Miami's black neighborhoods, then the rest of our program is devoted to Part 3 of our series on the Reagan legacy. Tonight Reagan and the press. We start with a report by Special Correspondent Hodding Carter, followed by former Reagan aide Michael Deaver and Helen Thomas of United Press International, then a discussion with former Presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter on the Presidency and the press.NEWS SUMMARY
MR. LEHRER: Police and other officials are preparing for another night of the worst in Miami. Some 700 police officers were called out last night as rioting hit the black neighborhood of Overtown for the second night in a row and spread to another called Liberty City. More than 200 people were arrested for looting, arson, destroying property and other crimes. The rioting followed the police shooting to death of a man on a motorcycle. His passenger died later from injuries. The policeman was Hispanic. The two victims were black. Today City Commissioners voted unanimously to appoint a panel to investigate the shooting. We'll have more on this story right after the News Summary. Robin.
MR. MacNeil: In Stockton, California, stunned children returned to classes today the day after a young drifter sprayed their schoolyard with bullets, killing five and wounding more than thirty children before committing suicide. We have a report from Ginger Casey of public station KQED San Francisco.
GINGER CASEY: At Cleveland Elementary today, school began on time but not as usual. The nation was watching as students and teachers struggled to make sense out of what happened here.
JOHN KLOSE, Stockton Schools: I don't know that there's any precedent for this anywhere in public school history and I regret that it was at Stockton.
GINGER CASEY: Bullet holes had been hastily spackled over, flowers draped the school sign, and grief counselors and mental health professionals were in every classroom explaining to children as young as six what happened here and why several of their classmates won't be coming back. The school is 70 percent Southeast Asian. Most of these children's parents fled Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam, fled the violence that has now been visited upon their children.
NORRIS BURKES, Stockton Minister: One parent was told at one point her child might be okay and another point the child is dead and no, wait a minute, maybe she's okay, and then finally I brought back the news that her daughter was, her only daughter was killed.
NITA REINHART, Mental Health Official: Kids that used to wet the bed and didn't anymore will regress and they'll do some things that are very inward...
GINGER CASEY: Are they regressing because it was safer when they were younger?
NITA REINHART: Yes, yes, that's correct.
GINGER CASEY: Twenty-six year old Patrick Edward Purdy attended Cleveland Elementary School from kindergarten to third grade. He also had a criminal history involving drugs, illegal weapons, and prostitution. But there is still no answer to the biggest question of all, why Purdy walked on to the playground at lunchtime and mowed down thirty-five children and a teacher with automatic weapons before killing himself.
NITA REINHART: We're angry, we're really angry, because we can't control the situation, and who are we going to be angry with? We can't even be angry now with, with the assailant. We can't take vengeance out against him because he's already dead.
MR. MacNeil: At a press conference this morning, Stockton Police Capt. Dennis Perry said the gunman fired 110 rounds from a Soviet designed AK-47 assault rifle. He wore a flak jacket bearing the words "Death To The Great Satan". Capt. Perry told reporters what police found when they searched Purdy's hotel room.
CAPT. DENNIS PERRY, Stockton Police Dept.: There had to be a hundred little plastic army men that were spread out through the entire room, up on top of the drapes, in the shower, one in the freezer, all over the place. What the significance of that is I don't know. He obviously had a military hang up of some kind.
MR. MacNeil: Authorities said the assault rifle was apparently purchased in Oregon, where semi-automatic weapons can be bought without even the five day waiting period required for a handgun.
MR. LEHRER: The U.S. Supreme Court today upheld a new federal sentencing system that set minimum sentences for certain crimes. The court voted 8 to 1 to keep the system in place. It went into effect more than a year ago but more than 150 federal district judges had refused to follow it. Now they will have no choice.
MR. MacNeil: In Prague, more than 5,000 people demonstrated today, but for the first time in four days police did not intervene. Following criticism of Czechoslovakia at the European Security Conference in Vienna, the Czech Foreign Minister said the crowds who demonstrated for the past three days were anti-state provocateurs. Today's crowd in Prague shouted, "Stop lying," and called for the removal of Communist Party leader Milos Yakas. They chanted, "Gorbachev, Gorbachev," for the Soviet leader whose reforms Yakes has rejected.
MR. LEHRER: President P.W. Botha of South Africa suffered a mild stroke today. The 73 year old leader was hospitalized at a military hospital outside Capetown. His condition was listed as stable. A government spokesman said the cabinet would probably select an acting president to govern in Botha's absence. In another health story involving former Philippines President Ferdinand Marcos, Marcos's attorneys filed a court petition saying Marcos is suffering from heart and kidney problems as well as pneumonia. They said his doctors now say he is dying. The petition filed in New York City said was Marcos was not able to stand trial on federal conspiracy and corruption charges.
MR. MacNeil: The U.S. trade deficit took a turn for the worse in November. The Commerce Department figures released today showed U.S. imports exceeded exports by $12 1/2 billion. That's almost a 22 percent increase over October's trade deficit and follows several months in which the trade deficit narrowed. The White House called the November figures an aberration but Commerce Sec. William Verity said the increase was a disappointment and shows we still have a long way to go.
MR. LEHRER: The official lead in to the Presidential inaugural began today in Washington. President-elect Bush kicked it off with a speech to 250 schoolteachers from throughout the country. He told them he meant it when he said he wanted to be the education President.
PRESIDENT-ELECT BUSH: Education is the key to our very competitiveness in the future as a nation and to our very soul as a people, so being an education President is one way I can work to ensure that America remains the strongest, freest nation on the face of the earth.
MR. LEHRER: Later in the day thousands of people gathered at the Lincoln Memorial with Bush and his family and Vice President-elect Dan Quayle and his. There was an air force fly over, a concert by the Beach Boys, country and western singers and other pop artists, 40,000 people were there in all for the festivities. The event concluded with a torch lighting, a fireworks display and the lighting of the thousands of flashlights to illustrate the Bush campaign theme as a thousand points of light. Mr. Bush explained his metaphor to the crowd.
PRESIDENT-ELECT BUSH: What is it that makes the thousand points of light shine? What is it that will make America a kinder and gentler nation? And perhaps I should ask who, who is it, and the answer quite simply is really it's you. It is individuals doing their part to make America a better place in which to live.
MR. MacNeil: That's our News Summary. Now it's on to the Miami riots, the Reagan legacy and Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford on the Presidency and the press. UPDATE - MIAMI RAGE
MR. LEHRER: First tonight an update on the rioting in Miami. In the last two days, seven people have been shot, one fatally, and more than two hundred arrested. The disturbances began Monday after a 23 year old black motorcyclist was shot in the head by an Hispanic policeman. Today police prepared for a possible third night of violence. The city council met in emergency session. They were warned by black leaders that only quick action to ease racial tensions could prevent more violence. Here is an extended excerpt from that meeting.
MILLER DAWKINS, City Commissioner: Our problem is that of community, police relations. That's our problem. Now all through the other incidents it has been we are the sufferers and they are the perpetuators. We have the citizens and the nation who look upon our police department as being corrupted drug dealers and we also have citizens who look upon them as being executors. Then we have the police who perceive the citizens in a way...you could not expect policemen to know that X number of guns have been stolen and are in the neighborhood and that X number of shotguns and UGs and other instruments of deadly weapons are in the neighborhood and not bejittery. But then you also have the citizen's perception of the police and that is, we get shot and that's it. Now every time something happens in my neighborhood, i.e., the black community, this Commission knows nothing but a blue ribbon review board and I have found all blue ribbon committees to be expensive. They come up with beautifully bound reports which are filed away and nothing happens.
ANN MARIE ACKER, Community Leader: We all know the problem. We know the problem. We need a solution to it. That's, that's the whole thing in a nutshell.
JOHNNIE McMILLAN, Miami-Dade N.A.A.C.P.: We understand that the most immediate problem is the relationship between the police and the community in Overtown and in other parts of the City of Miami. That needs to be addressed. But there's some underlying problems that brought all of this about. The underlying problems include the menace of the drug trade. It includes segregated housing. It includes the lack of educational opportunity for our residents. It includes just the overall lack and inadequate health care problems that we have so there is a long-term overall effect of a total human being within the Overtown and the City of Miami area. We hope that whatever is created, and we certainly are in support of an independent review panel that is not politically driven but one that truly will make the difference that you will consider that, but one thing about having an independent review panel is something that we don't talk much about here, and that is that it must be funded properly. You must have attorneys, you must have an investigative staff, you must have those persons who can provide the kind of support to that effort that will truly truly make a difference.
REV. WILLIAM WASHINGTON: We are dealing with life and death and we had best do something in this Commission today to let those people know that we are acting in good faith. We don't have much time. I've seen some undergoing, things that are going on at gas stations and what have you and we need to act to calm that community out there and the quicker we do it, the better it's going to be for everybody. I have some members who live Overtown I'm very fond of and it's a matter of life and death. And we need to act.
J.L. PLUMMER, City Commissioner: My policemen who for the main part have shown great restraint are tired. They've been on that damned street for 36 hours. I am very concerned about that. I saw policemen last night in the police station who were doing a job that were about ready to pass out because they've been up for 40 hours. We are sitting here talking about and need to long-term solutions, no question. But damn it, there's going to be a lot of people hurt and possibly killed tonight and we're not addressing that issue. And I want to say to this Commission whether we think of a curfew, which may be as good or bad, the National Guard which is good or bad, we need to address some issues before we leave these chambers about the sun going down tonight.
MR. LEHRER: After that, the Commissioners voted unanimously to set up a panel to investigate the shooting. But Commissioner Dawkins warned the vote would not satisfy the people in the streets causing the disturbances.
MR. MacNeil: Still to come on the Newshour, the Reagan legacy in press relations, then Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford on the Presidency and the press. SERIES - REAGAN LEGACY
MR. LEHRER: Now to Part 3 tonight in our look this week at the Reagan legacy. The subject this week is the press and how it and Mr. Reagan treated each other and how well the results served the public interest. We begin with a report from Special Correspondent Hodding Carter.
HODDING CARTER: Ronald Reagan's Presidency was a dream assignment for most reporters. The great communicator and his advisers had a flare for the dramatic, for the picture story, for media events. As a result, the White House Press Corps had virtually unlimited access to the nation's front pages and evening news air time. But this frequent exposure masked constant frustrations throughout the eight Reagan years.
SAM DONALDSON, ABC News: The story that most people think of is Reagan walking to the helicopter and we're 50 yards away behind a rope line and this amiable friendly man with that nice friendly smile is walking along and like a pack of wild dogs we start yelling at him, and he goes, "Well, what, what?" And he smiles and he waves and he then goes inside the White House. Or he may stop and talk or he may just shout back a "no" or "yes, I do" or something like that which would declare the news. I think that story which the public sees so often best epitomizes a problem of trying to cover this man.
PRESIDENT REAGAN: And now, Helen, I know that Nancy upstairs would die, she's watching on television, if I didn't call on you in that pretty red dress.
HODDING CARTER: Helen Thomas of United Press International covered five Presidents before Reagan. She says the movie actor President always stuck by the script and listened to his directors.
HELEN THOMAS, United Press International: We would go into the Oval Office and would ask him a question and he would say, "Well, I can't answer that," and we would say, "Why," and he'd point to Ed Meese, and Jim Baker, and Mike Deaver, and say, "They won't let me.". And on it would go and we'd say, "But you're the President.".
JAQUELINE ADAMS, CBS News: The White House has been highly successful in limiting our access. They have a story of the day and they try to keep us away from the President or out of their meetings that do not fall into their category of story of the day.
HODDING CARTER: Who has the upper hand, press or President, when it comes to that relationship?
TOM GRISCOM, Former White House Comm. Director: I think the President does. You know, a lot of people disagree with me, but I can say that from having been a reporter and also having worked on this, on the other side of it, because a President nine times out of ten is going to control the story.
HODDING CARTER: Carefully scripted, masterfully delivered prime time speeches, almost 40 in all, were the President's favorite form of communication. But even when the situation looked most out of control, as with the shouted exchange over the roar of helicopters, it often produced an intended result.
PRESIDENT REAGAN: Nope. If you heard that, it must have been the helicopter.
TOM GRISCOM: There are times when you got the criticism about the roar of the helicopter, all of that. It was a convenience to have that ability to be able to do something in an impromptu way to answer the question that was out there.
JAQUELINE ADAMS, CBS News: It's not a dignified way to do business, but it's the way that the White House has insisted that we do business and they're not completely adverse to it, because it makes the reporters look like barking dogs, look like aggressors, and poor Ronald Reagan is attacked by this horde. [Press Conference - Everybody Shouting At Once]
STEVEN V. ROBERTS, The New York Times: The shouted questions. The questions at the photo opportunities or when Ronald Reagan's coming off an airplane are largely a product of frustration. They're a product of a feeling among all the reporters here that we so seldom see the President...and so seldom have a chance to poke through the script that we take any chance we get and that means people get rude, we get boisterous. It's really a very unhealthy relationship and unappetizing to most serious reporters as well as to the White House.
HODDING CARTER: For reporters, Presidential press conferences did not provide much relief. President Reagan held 48, an average of 6 a year. John Kennedy, in contrast, averaged 22 1/2 a year.
STEVEN V. ROBERTS: I covered this White House for two years. I covered it for a fairly major newspaper. I got to ask Ronald Reagan three questions.
HODDING CARTER: Steve Roberts was a member of the Harvard Commission on the Presidential News Conference whose report called the prime time news conference high on theater, low on content.
STEVEN V. ROBERTS: We felt that these prime time press conferences were really very useless not only to the President, but to us, that we became performers in a TV show. And that's not the role of White House reporters.
HODDING CARTER: The best known was ABC's Sam Donaldson who often seemed to be as much a part of the story as the President.
SAN DONALDSON, ABC News: When I used to walk into an auditorium with the press pool before Ronald Reagan and have the crowd start both booing and cheering me, I realized that I had stayed too long because as a reporter, I'm not someone who ought to be the story or ought to be the focus of attention. I'm there to put the attention on the President.
HODDING CARTER: After 12 years on the beat, 8 with Reagan, Donaldson is going to a new assignment. George Bush has said there won't be a new version of the Reagan/Donaldson act in his White House.
PRESIDENT-ELECT BUSH: Not shouted questions. It's demeaning to your profession. You shouldn't have to yell at me to get an answer and so we're going to try to do it differently. I'll do this for a while longer because it's certain fun. I like the give and take of it but I don't like the instability.
MR. LEHRER: Some thoughts now from Helen Thomas and Michael Deaver, two people who have labored prominently on both sides of the Reagan press street. Their discussion will be conducted by Judy Woodruff who in an earlier life was an NBC White House Correspondent during the Reagan and the Carter administrations. Judy.
MS. WOODRUFF: As Jim said, joining us is Helen Thomas, the White House Bureau Chief for United Press International. The Dean of the White House Press Corps, she has covered every President since John F. Kennedy. Also with us is Michael Deaver, formerly President Reagan's Deputy Chief of Staff. His responsibilities during the first Reagan term included managing the relations between the National Press Corps and the President.
MS. WOODRUFF: Helen, do you believe George Bush when he says things are going to be different under him?
HELEN THOMAS, United Press International: Well, I think they'll be different. Every President has had a different style, but I don't think we're going to stop asking him questions because he wants them under certain forums, because that means he calls all the shots. I admit that he can answer what he wants to but once in a while news will be breaking and I think he'll be forced to answer it. He has not given us any kind of a set formula of how he is going to conduct his press relations.
MS. WOODRUFF: Mike Deaver, do you think things will be different under George Bush?
MICHAEL DEAVER, Former Reagan Aide: Well, I agree with Helen. Every President handles it differently. I think these discussions that we've had in the last months about Reagan and the media are interesting to me. You have a man who is walking out of the office standing tall after eight years. It's the first time in 35 years. And it's largely because he played the game on his rules and the media is now spending a good deal of time trying to figure out how that happened.
MS. WOODRUFF: Well, that's a question I want to ask you. You would agree then with Tom Griscom, the former White House Communications Director, the fellow who came after you, that the President always has the upper hand, almost always has the upper hand in dealing with the press?
MR. DEAVER: I think if the President is smart enough to figure out a strategy and a game plan and stick to it, he can always have the upper hand.
MS. WOODRUFF: Has it always been that way, or did Ronald Reagan come in with a new game plan that made it more that way after 1981?
MR. DEAVER: Well, in all humility, I think that Reagan did have a good game plan, and we did have a strategy, but the press relations have changed to. Helen can talk about that a lot better than I can. And the media, and particularly television, is so important to the President's job performance and his success that it has to be a big part of his job and he has to have a communication strategy to deal with it. And he cannot let the media dictate what that strategy is going to be. He cannot let the Congress dictate what that strategy is going to be, because that is his, that is his window to the public and to the people and to the voters.
MS. WOODRUFF: Helen, did things change...
MS. THOMAS: Can I just say in terms of the upper hand...
MS. WOODRUFF: Yes, go ahead.
MS. THOMAS: ...we haven't been vying with the President and who's on top. The President of the United States obviously can call the shots. We say that he should answer questions in addition to any other way that he wants to communicate. It's the only way you can have accountability.
MS. WOODRUFF: But isn't the reality, Helen, that the press, that there is this constant struggle underway to see who controls...
MS. THOMAS: There is because he, Deaver here was the master manipulator, the master image maker. He boasts about packaging the President, don't you?
MR. DEAVER: Boast? No, I've never boasted about that.
MS. THOMAS: Well, that was your modus operandi. You do admit that you picked the story of the day, you wanted television, I don't blame you. You reached 60 million people and that's certainly...
MR. DEAVER: But let's look at this. We now have after eight years a President who's leaving office, the most popular President, leaving office.
MS. THOMAS: We were not trying to destroy his popularity.
MR. DEAVER: No. I'm just saying that the proof has to be there. He certainly is more popular than the media who have been covering him.
MS. THOMAS: During Iran-Contra, the President said, "The people like me but they don't believe me." I think that's pretty devastating for a President. I think there were many questions. They do like him, but there are many questions that remain.
MS. WOODRUFF: Helen, what did Reagan do that was so different in dealing with his press from his predecessors? You covered...
MS. THOMAS: He submitted to his handlers all the time. Actually, he did very well on his own. I always thought that Deaver and Jim Baker and Ed Meese thought that they were smarter than he was. They would go apoplectic if we would ask him an impromptu question in a situation that they had not planned.
MS. WOODRUFF: Mike Deaver.
MR. DEAVER: Well, I never went apoplectic over the President answering questions. I think...let's...rather than debating this back and forth, I do feel very strongly that the President and those people who are in charge of his communications and his media relations need to sit down with some of the key people in the media and get their feelings about how this ought to work better. That was tried at the beginning of the Reagan administration. Although it was tried with the press office, it ought to be with the senior people who are seeing the President on an hourly basis.
MS. WOODRUFF: Before we talk about the future though, I still want to ask you the question about what happened, what really happened during the Reagan administration. Did you feel manipulated, Helen?
MS. THOMAS: Absolutely. Absolutely. There were so many things each day that we thought were worthy of coverage that were real news which we were not allowed to cover, even giving the Congressional Medal of Honor to people and so forth. But they built a wall and they determined and they called all the shots as to what we could cover.
MS. WOODRUFF: Well, do you...what do you think the effect of that was on the Reagan Presidency, on what Reagan was able to achieve or not achieve as President? How much of an effect did it really have?
MS. THOMAS: I think that there was a real lack of accountability and at times credibility. When he made his first speech, when he was first asked about the Iran-Contra story that broke in November 1986, he said, "There is no foundation.". The first speech that he made to the American people on the subject was that there was no third country involved, it was one plain...it was all wrong...and so forth. I just think that we lost out on the truth in a lot of ways and that may never be repaired.
MR. DEAVER: What Helen is talking about is what I call gotcha journalism. She just cited gotchas, we got him there, we got him there, we got him there.
MS. THOMAS: No, that's not...absolutely not. That's not...
MR. DEAVER: And there is that attitude among the media that are covering any of our...
MS. THOMAS: That's a Larry Speakes line.
MS. WOODRUFF: Is that the reason you limited access, because you felt there was this attitude on the part of the press? Was it a bias against Ronald Reagan that you...
MR. DEAVER: I don't accept limited access. I mean, access, the President of the United States has a lot of things to do rather than just simply talking to the media all day long. While I was there, and some of the things Helen is talking about weren't on my shift, thanks, but when I was there I tried to develop different ways for the media to get the information that they were after, whether it was one on one interviews or bringing groups of people in or the senior members of the White House talking on a daily basis with reporters.
MS. WOODRUFF: But you don't acknowledge that limit, that access was limited in the Reagan White House to the media?
MR. DEAVER: Well, are you saying that there ought to be unlimited access?
MS. WOODRUFF: No. I'm not saying anything. I'm just asking...
MR. DEAVER: What do you mean by limited access?
MS. THOMAS: The story of the day that you planned exactly what we should consider news.
MS. WOODRUFF: We heard from Helen, from Sam Donaldson and also from Jaqueline Adams of CBS...
MR. DEAVER: Well, I'll go back to what I said in the very beginning. Part of what I think is upsetting to a lot of the people who covered this President is the fact that he did have a game plan and his manipulators, as Helen calls them, had a strategy, and we stuck to it, and we were able through that to achieve some enormous results. Now maybe in the meantime the media wasn't happy with all that, but this President was successful following that game plan.
MS. THOMAS: But game plan, is that how you approach the American people in information as your private preserve? And I don't think it was the President's game plan; I think it was yours.
MR. DEAVER: I don't think after eight years the American people are wanting in any knowledge about this man.
MS. THOMAS: Not true.
MR. DEAVER: This is the most covered President in the history of this country. We know more about him, whether he dozes at cabinet meetings or what he says to Soviet leaders.
MS. THOMAS: That's your revelation.
MS. WOODRUFF: But, Helen, you're saying you think that the American people have suffered...
MS. THOMAS: I think there are big gaps, enormous gaps that are, have not been explained.
MS. WOODRUFF: Let me just come back to this again one more time, Mike Deaver. Do you think it was that the press was against Ronald Reagan coming in? What do you think it was about...
MR. DEAVER: No, I don't think it was that at all.
MS. WOODRUFF: ...the way the press operated that you had to be on guard against?
MR. DEAVER: Look it, they had their agenda and we had our agenda and we simply had the ability to make our agenda the story of the day because we had been elected and we controlled the White House. Now they object to that but that was our job.
MS. THOMAS: We were going after information and the truth. That's how democracy runs. You had an agenda that you were going to focus on whether it had anything to do with the reality or not.
MR. DEAVER: Did you ever call me in the White House and not get an answer?
MS. THOMAS: I called your office many times and never got an answer and many times your office denied something that was the truth. I hate to say that but it's the truth.
MR. DEAVER: My office, my word...
MS. THOMAS: We'll let by gones be by gones.
MS. WOODRUFF: If you had it all to do over again, Mike Deaver, would you do anything differently in terms of press relations access?
MR. DEAVER: Not from a strategic standpoint. I think that what we did was the right thing to do. I would say, as I said earlier, that I would spend more time on my own, having had the responsibility I had on an informal basis with reporters to try to find out what their problems were because I didn't do that. I left that to the press office and I think that was a mistake. I did talk to reporters every chance I got to give them whatever information they were seeking, but I didn't talk to them about how's it working and I think if I had to do it over again, I would do that.
MS. WOODRUFF: Would that have made a difference, Helen?
MS. THOMAS: I think everything, the more understanding you have, of course, but I think that we had a brick wall we were running up against.
MS. WOODRUFF: Well, when you say, just once again...
MS. THOMAS: They isolated him; they insulated him; I mean, the President, and they overprotected him. I felt that he was a big boy, he had won the Presidency, he certainly could handle anything that we could throw at him.
MS. WOODRUFF: Coming back again to the earlier question about whether Bush will be able to do anything different, what should he...I mean, from the viewpoint of the reporter, what sort of access do you think the press objectively needs to do its job?
MS. THOMAS: Well, I think the ideal, of course, would be to have one news conference a week, and that's pretty far fetched, but I do think that when big news is breaking and we'd like to hear it from him, from the man, himself, I don't think there's anything wrong with coming right into the press room and answering questions, but it would be nice to have regular news conferences and to know that they are going to be held.
MS. WOODRUFF: Is that feasible, Mike Deaver, for a President?
MR. DEAVER: Oh, certainly, anything is feasible. I happen to believe that the Presidential news conference is kind of more for the benefit of the media. I mean, as Helen gets all dressed up in her red dress and they get on television...
MS. THOMAS: It's not for the media; it's for the American people.
MR. DEAVER: ...and there really isn't any news that comes out of that.
MS. THOMAS: I don't agree with you at all.
MR. DEAVER: Most media people will say that there isn't a lot of new information that comes out of a press conference. I think a better way to do that is perhaps him going into the press room more often and having people into the Oval Office and in other people's offices to get the information the press are after.
MS. WOODRUFF: Would that work as a substitute, Helen?
MS. THOMAS: My rebuttal is that nothing can replace getting it from the President, himself. We heard many many things at news conferences that were, indeed, news in terms of the President. We found out that he thought that the Soviets lie, cheat, we found out that he thinks that the homeless sleep on grates because they want to. I mean, there were...he thinks that in 35 years we may find out whether Martin Luther King was a Communist, all of these things, and the whole, during the scandal there was the unraveling of that. I think that...and we heard that he wanted Ortega to cry uncle just for starters.
MS. WOODRUFF: But you again, getting back to the point you made, you believe that accountability of this President suffered...
MS. THOMAS: I do.
MS. WOODRUFF: ...because of what this White House...
MS. THOMAS: I do indeed.
MS. WOODRUFF: ...created.
MR. DEAVER: No, not at all. If his accountability would have suffered, had suffered seriously, he wouldn't be there today and he wouldn't be leaving with this historic job approval...
MS. WOODRUFF: Helen.
MS. THOMAS: The Congressional committee said if he didn't know he should have, and I mean, this is really a pretty devastating...
MS. WOODRUFF: How do you explain it, Helen? The man has a high popularity rating despite the things...
MS. THOMAS: He's a very likeable person and people, they protect his vulnerability. They like him and that counts for a lot, personality, good nature, holds no grudges, very decent, but at the same time there was that big hole.
MS. WOODRUFF: All right. Well, Helen Thomas, Mike Deaver, thank you for being with us. Robin.
MR. MacNeil: Finally tonight, more thoughts on the Presidency and the press from two former Presidents, Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford. I spoke with them today at a symposium at the Gannett Media Studies Center at Columbia University in New York. The discussion ranged over their own experiences with the press, Mr. Reagan's and the prospects for George Bush. Here are excerpts from the discussions.
MR. MacNeil: This is a statement by a deputy press secretary in the Reagan first term, Leslie Janko, who was quoted in the Washington Journalism Review as saying about the early days of the Reagan administration, "The whole thing was PR. This was a PR outfit that became President and took over the country.". Do we now have increasingly a Presidency by public relations? I'm not fixing this only on President Reagan...by public relations where the techniques that are successful in the campaign are imported into the White House and, in effect, are running the executive branch, is that correct?
JIMMY CARTER: I think there's no doubt about that, that is a strong trend. Whether it's been consummated or peaked during President Reagan's administration still remains to be seen. There may be a retrogression from that in the Bush administration, but I think that his 1988 election shows that the entire campaign was conducted basically on 30 second spots, sometimes distorted, attacking one's opponent's basic character and that sort of thing, rather than dealing with issues. But I don't, my prediction is that there will be less of that under George Bush than there has been under President Reagan. I think it won't be so highly evolved a PR effort. There's...compared to what was there when President Ford or I were in office, there's a massive capability there with constant polling and the contriving of dealing with the press but I think we've reached the high point on that under President Reagan. That's my guess.
MR. MacNeil: What do you think about that? Has the high point been reached, or is it part of an inevitable evolution that's going to go on that the techniques that are so successful in the campaign are going to be irresistible in continuing to mold public opinion during the...
GERALD FORD: Robin, I strongly feel there was an over emphasis in 1988 in the campaign on photo opportunities, sound bites, and analysis of surveys and polls. It was almost ad nauseam, as I sat there and watched it and I hope that in the months ahead we're going to have a little more substance from the point of view of the White House and the press. And from what I see has happened since November 8th, George Bush has sought through his appointments to pick people of substance. He has sought to reach out. He had offered an olive branch to the Congress which is certainly vital and he has brought people in for consultation that I think are all constructive so I feel good so far and I hope that starting on January 20th, this kind of momentum will continue. We won't be overwhelmed by what was I thought unfortunate campaign techniques during 1988.
MR. MacNeil: But if the problem is getting the message through to the people for your own good purposes as President...after all you were elected, and you feel a mandate and you feel you have a right to be heard...if the object is getting the message through, isn't it irresistible to use techniques that demonstrably work?
JIMMY CARTER: Yes, if you can get away with it. I just don't believe that President Bush after Friday is going to be able to get away with it, with the high level of news management that has been accepted by the press in the last eight years. I think it's going to be a heavy condemnation of him if he has press conferences as infrequently as did President Reagan, if he refuses to answer questions except shouting on the way to the helicopter and so forth, I just don't think that's going to be acceptable anymore, so I think that if the press condemns that kind of Presidential aloofness, then I think it's going to be corrected and that would be my anticipation. But I just don't, I think there's going to be a different level of relationship between the President and the press under Bush than we've had under President Reagan.
MR. MacNeil: Where should the problem of dealing with the press or the opportunity, whichever itis, where should that be, how high a priority should that be as he sets out on Friday after Friday?
JIMMY CARTER: I think almost pre-eminent because the only way that a President can deal effectively with the public both here and abroad is through the press. The time for direct speeches, fireside chats, publicly covered news conferences is relatively rare as a percentage and I think how the press treats say his relationship say with Dan Quayle...I noticed it's becoming to be a question, has Quayle been hidden from the press since the election was over, is he going to be involved in the major decisions...that kind of question can be, you know, quite damaging to Bush if it is sustained, so I think that how he deals with the press ought to be a top priority and just telling the public the truth and answering some questions that have been left over from the campaign.
GERALD FORD: For his program to be successful, whether it's domestic or international, he has to establish a receptivitiveness with the Congress on the one hand and the American people on the other; he needs their support. Between now and sometime next week, he has to build through the press a momentum for whatever he's going to propose in his speech when he goes up to Capitol Hill, and at that time, if he's done it well, the Congress will be receptive and the American people will. And if he doesn't have that background and that support, Robin, he can't do well when the chips are down.
MR. MacNeil: Let's talk about...excuse me...
JIMMY CARTER: I don't think we can count on a continuation of the eight years of a Teflon Presidency. There may be some velcro mixed in when Bush takes office. And you know, I think that President Reagan has been so enormously successful in dealing well with the press that I don't think that Bush is going to have that same success.
MR. MacNeil: Generally speaking, President Carter, is the way Mr. Reagan and his White House have handled the press a good model for George Bush?
JIMMY CARTER: George Bush would be very lucky if he could continue the relationship that President Reagan has had with the press. I think President Reagan has handled the press...and I used the word handled advisedly...superbly. Based on his analysis and his advisers' analysis of what is popular and unpopular, I think President Reagan has been effective in emphasizing those popular items in dealing with the press. I think if something has a connotation of disappointment or failure or unpopularity, he's very adroitly stayed personally aloof from that particular news item, but if something was popular, I think he's associated himself with it. And President Reagan has dealt with the press I think through very carefully orchestrated encounters and through the passing from the White House to the helicopter back and forth and responding to whichever questions he wanted. So I think his aloofness from the press and his ability to emphasize or to orchestrate the daily news item has been remarkably successful. I just don't believe that George Bush is likely to have that level of success.
MR. MacNeil: Let's talk about that orchestrating the daily news item. To be effective as President, must the President drive the new news agenda. Do you agree with David Gergen, who was Mr. Reagan's first communications secretary, who says the government has to set the agenda, it can't let the press set the agenda for it?
GERALD FORD: That certainly, Robin, is the objective of any administration. I suspect that others did what we did. We would sort of plan for the week what the various news programs or the news items would be and we would try to implement it through the press secretary, through speeches, through conferences, what have you. That is what an administration seeks to do and probably ought to do if it wants to have the momentum for whatever his program might be. As we all know, you don't get away with that despite the best laid plans because the press has a different perspective and they ought to. They ought to try to find out what's good and what's bad and what you're planning and at the same time come up with some agenda of their own. And they certainly have done that even in the Reagan administration. The press, despite the personal popularity of President Reagan which is phenomenal, some of his programs, because the press doesn't or hasn't bought them all, haven't been nearly as popular as he, himself.
MR. MacNeil: So you don't agree with President Carter that he's gotten away with it, he has gotten away with it?
GERALD FORD: Well, on a personal basis he and Mrs. Reagan are extremely popular, but there are some programs that the press has dug into that are not if you look at the polls, the surveys, are not nearly as popular as President Reagan and Mrs. Reagan, themselves.
MR. MacNeil: Do you agree, President Carter, that to be effective a President has got to seize and hold onto and maintain the agenda initiative all the time, he's got to have his message out there first and fully?
JIMMY CARTER: I think so and the message ought to fairly simple and clear. You can't have a multitude of messages simultaneously, otherwise you can't keep track of it. When I was getting ready to run for President, I talked to Sen. Herman Talmas from Georgia, who's a very brilliant man, about this question, and he pointed out to me that all during his career he had decided each day what message he wanted to get out to the news media. In other words, he had an answer and no matter what question the press asked him, he gave that answer. Well, I never was able to do it and get away with it. So I think there's no doubt that the President in general can set the agenda except for domestic or international events that are just uncontrollable.
MR. MacNeil: What do both of you say to the comment that a former senior producer with CBS Evening News said that "Michael Deaver should have been listed as the executive producer on all the political stories that we broadcast," is that the ideal from the White House point of view? Is it a good model to follow?
JIMMY CARTER: I think most Presidents have that kind of ambition. Some of those ambitions are realized and some not. In my case, not, I never was able to orchestrate any news, and have a very unsuccessful relationship with the press I think, but I went into the Presidency with the ambition of having a press conference every two weeks. And when I wasn't out of Washington, I basically adhered to that policy until after the hostages were taken. Following that, there were so many questions asked about hostages and what are you doing about them that we minimized the number of conferences at last. I think President Ford had about the same number of conferences per month that I did. President Reagan has had very rare press conferences and I think he's gotten away with it, and I think that this is a tribute to his political acuity, his political ability, but I never have...
MR. MacNeil: You mean, if a President can get away with fewer, he should?
JIMMY CARTER: I think if a President can get away with presenting his tenure in the most favorable light he should and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, and President Reagan has been remarkably successful, to repeat myself, in not being associated with things that were unpopular. It was always James Watt, it was always Edwin Meese, it was North or Poindexter. It was the Congress, it was...it was some predecessor in office who was the cause of his problems, not him.
MR. MacNeil: Why did Mr. Reagan, to use your phrase, get away with it?
JIMMY CARTER: I think you could answer that question better than I, although I understand that President Reagan has never been willing to be on MacNeil/Lehrer Report, but I think that he has given the public an image of a strong leader who sees in our country nothing but new and who has convinced the American people that everything is okay, $200 billion deficits are okay, for instance, and other things of that kind. I think that he also has brought about a sense of national pride that is very gratifying, both politically and to the consciousness of American people and there's a very good equation I think, I wouldn't want it named after me, but I think you can equate Presidential popularity in the public opinion polls almost exactly with press treatment. When a President is riding high and has 50 or 55 percent favorable reaction in the public opinion polls, he's also created with kid gloves and deference by the press. If he starts going down though, then he's condemned by the press, so I think that's kind of a sustained momentum that I think is a truism in politics.
MR. MacNeil: This is the Carter curve? Do you agree with that, the press follows the opinion polls?
GERALD FORD: Oh, yes. When things are going badly, the press sort of thrives on it. I mean, it's a time for them to show their machoism and so they, they enjoy it. And I think it's unfortunate, but how you change it, you have to have a break in some event, you have to have some good thing that's beyond the control of the press.
MR. MacNeil: Let's talk about personality for a moment. If personality makes a big impact on how the press treats you, how would you predict that George Bush's personality is going to play with the press in its current mood?
GERALD FORD: I think George has started out with nothing but good press. When he goes fishing, there are great pictures. I haven't seen pictures of him doing something wrong as a fisherman. And you're probably a better judge than I, Jimmy, because I'm not a fisherman, but I can tell you in other areas.
MR. MacNeil: No rabbits attack him...
GERALD FORD: Well, I think George Bush's personality and his background, his accomplishments, are going to be highly beneficial in his relationship with the press. He's already shown a great capability to develop that relationship and if he can only keep the momentum going, he's going to have a good year and possibly a good four years.
JIMMY CARTER: I don't quite agree with that. By the way, I've never been attacked by a rabbit. That was one of the press creations that got the most attention perhaps when I was President. More than the Camp David accords, people remember the rabbit, but I don't agree that Bush's acknowledged good character and his ability and knowledge of Washington is going to pay that rich a dividend with the press because he's inheriting some extremely difficult responsibilities, problems. And I think there may be a direct relationship not only between public opinion polls and the press, but also between personal access to the President and the press. Frequent press conferences, the constant contacts with the press I think probably would work to the detriment of the way the press treats George Bush.
MR. MacNeil: Why?
JIMMY CARTER: Just mark what...that's my prediction. I'm not sure I can explain it, but now I'll try. I think that President Reagan's ability to stay aloof from the press on anything that was unpopular has paid extremely rich dividends for him in the image with which he's presented to the American people. He's not responsible for things that are unpleasant. I think Bush is going to be one of those Presidents like Harry Truman where people say well, the buck stops here. If there is a problem with the Natural Park Service or if there's a debacle in Lebanon or if the deficit continues, or if the savings & loan institutions are not salvaged, I think Bush is going to get a major part of the responsibility. I think that President Reagan has been able to avoid that kind of responsibility in the public image because of his basic aloofness.
MR. MacNeil: So it isn't...excuse me...
GERALD FORD: I would differ with President Carter on that because Reagan and Bush are different personalities. They have had a quite different exposure as they have come up through the ranks of public service. If George Bush has good answers, he can do well in frequent press conferences responding to the press. Now if he has lousy programs or his answers to the challenges are not adequate, then he'll have a tough time. But I assume whether it's how he's going to deal with the Congress, how he's going to handle the savings & loan crisis, how he's going to handle the debt problems of the under developed nations, those are things that he ought to have well organized to respond to the press, and if he does, he'll do well. If his answers are bad, there's nothing he can do about it.
JIMMY CARTER: How well the press treats you is not the pre- eminent responsibility of a President. It's how well he governs, how courageously he deals with controversial and difficult issues and how well he's able to coordinate his activities with others who share responsibility like in the Congress, the quality of his appointees in cabinet posts and in lesser positions. Those are the kinds of things, how well does he tell the truth, how well does he understand domestic and public issues, how compassionate is he, those are the things that measure the greatness of a President. It's not how well he's treated by the press that measures the greatness of a President.
MR. MacNeil: Those were excerpts from a discussion taped this morning at a conference of the Gannett Media Studies Center at Columbia University in New York. RECAP
MR. LEHRER: Again, the major stories of this Wednesday, authorities in Miami sought to quiet black neighborhoods where riots have caused two deaths and hundreds of arrests in the last two days. The U.S. trade deficit jumped 21.9 percent in November to $12.5 billion and President-elect Bush began the official inaugural countdown by telling a group of schoolteachers he really meant it when he said he wanted to be the education President. Good night, Robin.
MR. MacNeil: Good night, Jim. That's the Newshour tonight and we'll be back tomorrow night. I'm Robert MacNeil. Good night.
Series
The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour
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NewsHour Productions
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NewsHour Productions (Washington, District of Columbia)
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cpb-aacip/507-n58cf9k04s
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Episode Description
This episode's headline: Miami Race; Reagan Legacy. The guests include HELEN THOMAS, United Press International; MICHAEL DEAVER, Former Reagan Aide; JIMMY CARTER; GERALD FORD; CORRESPONDENTS: HODDING CARTER; JUDY WOODRUFF. Byline: In New York: ROBERT MacNeil; In Washington: JAMES LEHRER
Date
1989-01-18
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Episode
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Copyright NewsHour Productions, LLC. Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International Public License (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/4.0/legalcode)
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00:59:28
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Producing Organization: NewsHour Productions
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NewsHour Productions
Identifier: NH-19890108 (NH Air Date)
Format: 1 inch videotape
Generation: Master
Duration: 01:00:00;00
NewsHour Productions
Identifier: NH-3340 (NH Show Code)
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Duration: 01:00:00;00
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Citations
Chicago: “The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour,” 1989-01-18, NewsHour Productions, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed January 15, 2025, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-507-n58cf9k04s.
MLA: “The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour.” 1989-01-18. NewsHour Productions, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. January 15, 2025. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-507-n58cf9k04s>.
APA: The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour. Boston, MA: NewsHour Productions, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-507-n58cf9k04s