The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

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yes white i am at good evening i'm margaret warner in washington welcome to this newshour special presentation of the two thousand presidential debates are announcing a live picture from washington university in st louis missouri where in just a few moments vice president al gore and governor george w bush will begin their third and final debate the candidates consider postponing tonight's events when hearing that missouri's democratic governor mel carnahan had been killed in a plane crash last night but in the end they end the debate commission decided to go ahead to its format is town meeting style with members of the audience asking the questions when called on by moderator

jim lehrer this face off comes exactly three weeks before the election two candidates virtually tied in the polls after tonight's encounter will have analysis from syndicated columnist mark shields and wall street journal columnist paul she go from republican media strategist greg stephenson democrat ray strother and from our panel of historians doris kearns goodwin michael beschloss he's johnson and richard norton smith we now go to jim lehrer in st louis reading from the field house at washington university in st louis i'm jim lehrer on the newshour on pbs and i welcome you to this third and final campaign two thousand debate between the democratic candidate for president and vice president al gore and the republican candidate governor george w bush of texas let's welcome the candidates now it's been

it's been before proceeding tonight we would like to observe a moment of silence in memory of governor mel carnahan of missouri along with his son and his former chief of staff died in a private plane crashed last night here's a little else but the peace but a reminder as we

continue now that these debates are sponsored by the commission on presidential debates the formats n roll's core worked out by the commission and the two campaigns tonight's questions will be asked by st louis area voters who were identified as being an committed by the gallup organization earlier today each of them wrote a question on a small car like this those cards were collected and then give them to me the second that my job under the rules of the evening was to decide to order the questions will be asked and the call all the questioners accordingly i also have the option of asking follow ups which in order to get to more of the band's questions for the record i planted new sparingly and mostly for clarifications the audience

participants are bound by the following rule they shall not ask follow up questions or otherwise participate in the extended discussion and the questioners microphone will be turned all after he or she completes asking the question though is of the rules as in winston salem last last week no single answer or response from a candidate can exceed two knots there is an audience you're in the hall and they have promised to remain absolutely quiet as to their predecessors this year in boston panel and winston salem before we began a correction from last week's debate i was wrong and i said guys the worst campaign commercials it called a bomb or that specific charge was made in a press statement on or mr levy i mean not in a tv guide and the va now let's go to

the first question of over one hundred and thirty questions we received from this panel we'll begin with one of the ninth inning on health issues and it goes to you mr vice president and it will be asked by james and cons and how do you feel about aging most and insurance companies making the critical decisions that affect people's lives instead of the medical professionals and while gage multiple insurance companies are not held accountable for their decisions mr hankins i don't feel good about it and i think we all have patients still drives to take medical decisions away from the edge of most and given back to the doctors and the nurses come back in and tell us why what if you'll forgive me i would like to say something right now at the beginning of this debate following on the moment of silence for no carnahan randy cunningham christopher entrepreneur i've we're good friends with mel and randy and i know that all of us

here want to extend our sympathy and condolences to gene in the family members of her family and i'm just like to say that this debate in a way is a living tribute to know cornering him because he logged a vigorous discussion about ideas in our democracy he was a fantastic governor of missouri the state became one of the top five in the nation for health care coverage for children under his leadership one of the best in advancing all kinds of benefits for children to grow up healthy and strong and course of this debate also takes place at a time when that tragedy of the uss cole it is our minds and hearts and insofar as the memorial services tomorrow out like that also extend sympathy to the families of those who have died and those who are still missing and and the injured now mr hankins i think that the

all the situation that you describe it's got completely out of me doctors are forgiving prescriptions they're recommending treatments and then there there are recommendations are being overruled by at most insurance companies that isn't acceptable i support a strong national patient's bill wright is actually a disagreement between us the national law all of that is pending on this the dingle norwood will bill a bipartisan bill is why not support and then the governor does not to managers was out to understand my first to the blessings god's blessings on the families whose lives were overturned it did to the last night's curtain on the texans versus is not true and who support our national patients the riots as a matter fact i brought republicans and democrats together to do just that the

state of texas to give patients the rights are records of african leadership style to do it you see in order to get something done on behalf of people have to put partisanship aside and as we did in my state with the most advanced patient's bill wright says for example that a woman can have to go through a gatekeeper boat regatta colleges it says that you can't get a doctor doctor can advise and eighty million shares that they can't get that doctor from giving full advice and if there's a bill allows patients to choose at all but we did something else that was interesting or when the first cases that you consume an hmo for denying a proper covers know there's independent reviewer is a snitch you have to go through force he says he got a complaint with your insurance company you can take your complaint to an object the body if the objective body rules on your behalf insurance company must

follow the rules however if the issue is funding doesn't follow the findings of the arrow that becomes a cause of action for law it's time for our nation turned to come together and do it right to the people and i think this is right for the people and i support a national pages vaporized the surface and that i have and one all people covered i don't want the lawyers superseded lot like we got in texas i think i just wanted to go to a girl's going after two minutes two minutes and i'll decide whether we go so well and make sure is we understand here is before we go on to another question how the area would you agree that the eu to agree on a national patients' bill of rights absolutely absolutely not i referred to the dental norwood bill it is the bipartisan bill that is now pending in the congress be the

hmo zen insurance companies support the other builders and the one that the republican majority has put forward they like it because it doesn't accomplish what i think really needs to be accomplished to give the decisions back to the doctors and nurses and you knew right of appeal to somebody other than the eighty more germs commonly go to the nearest emergency room without ever to call a major moment we call nine one one on the legacy especially a specialist in if you need to and it has strong bipartisan support is being blocked by the republican leadership so in the congress and i specifically would like to know whether mr bush will support the dental norwood bill which is the main one can convert us that they like but also like where you see the differences between the two of you when you were the differences is i can get it done and i can give some ten thousand on behalf of the people that's what the question in this campaign is about so it was your philosophy and what's your position on

issues but can you get things done yeah i we're going to go now and i talk about the principles and the issues that i think are important in a patient's bill writes knows this is my washington dc focus was in this committee respect the sponsor from the president remembers the room chair had their orders will have direct access only july and people build take their hmo insurance company the court that struck down a texas less and leadership style of ring the washington another the next question also along on health issues from korea will be asked by repaying plate and it goes throughout the privilege are either of you concerned with a barrier

and get behind them are either of you concerned with finding something usable way toward the price of pharmaceutical drugs such as education and minimizing intake i revamp of the fda process for fueling the drug companies procedures instead of just finding more money was my question i am i think when the promise we have a group of seniors is a spokesperson for coverage in medicare and therefore i have to try to purchase drugs they do so on their own there's no kind of collective bargaining with no power of purchasing among seniors so i think step one dimension prescription drugs more affordable for seniors in those of it folks really rely upon the egyptian there's a lot these days is reform the medicare system is to have prescription drugs is an integral part of medicare once and for all the problem we have today is that

like the patients who lived it with health care there's a lot of bickering and washed in some cases the sky like a political issue as opposed to a people issue so about one and two is i wanna call upon republicans and democrats to forget all the arguing and finger pointing and come together and take care of our seniors is the prescription drug program that says we'll pay for the four seniors will help all seniors with prescription drugs and the main town i think it's important with the media helping hand which is a direct money to states so that says forcing his opponents used to bring food medicine so as part of an overall overhaul purchasing power is important against price controls i price controls would hurt our ability to continue important research and development drug therapies are replacing a lot of medicines that we used to know it most important things to continue the research and development component and some against price controls expediting drugs to the

fda makes sense of course allowing the new bill that was passed the cars made sense to allow all for your drugs that were sold overseas to come back another country to come back in the united states and make sense of the senators to reform medicare a thousand or less are there we're going to know what if you want someone who will spent a lot of words describing the whole convoluted process and then end up supporting legislation that is supported by the big drug companies this is your men if you want someone who will fight for you and who will fight for the middle class families and working men and women who are sick and tired of having their parents and grandparents pay higher prices for prescription drugs than anybody else and i wanna fight and you asked a great question because it's not only

seniors listen for twenty four years i have never been afraid to take on the big drug plans that isn't great things they discovered great new cures and that's really what we want them to continue there but they are now spending more money on advertising and promotion you see all these apps then they are on research and development and they're trying to artificially extend the monopoly patent protection so they can keep charging these very high prices i wanna streamline the approval of the competing generic drugs and the new kinds of thought of treatments that can compete with him so that we'd written bring the price down for everybody now briefly levitate how my prescription drug plan works are going to talk about medicare i get i proposed a real prescription drug benefit under medicare for all things all saying it endures out works you pick your own doctor and nobody can take that away from the director chooses the prescription that you made and nobody can overrule you got to go to rome for

missing and that medicare pays half the price for that bailout if you have extraordinary high cost than they pay all over four thousand dollars out of pocket and i'll bring new competition to bring the price down and he has the big drug companies built nothing will happen or another of health question that comes from of that the french is for you vice president gore speaking french where you well there's this taxes are ideas of dollars in taxes would you be open to that built the national health care plan for everybody and have not and so this is something you were trapped here that it's all a simple which is going to implement this plan step by step toward universal universal health coverage but i am not in favor of the government doing all we spent sixty five years now on the development of a hybrid system shortly

private partly public and eighty five percent more people have health insurance fifteen percent of that adds up to forty four million people that is a national outrage we have got to get health coverage for those who do not have and we've got to improve the quality for those with hiv with a patient's civil rights that's real and that were sitting on more with bill and we have got to fill in the gaps in coverage by finally bringing parity for the treatment of mental illness because that's been left out i'm going to do with long term care now here are the steps that i would take first of all i will make a commitment to bring healthcare coverage of high quality that is affordable that every single child in america within four years and then we'll fill other gets by covering three of the parents of those children when the family is poor or up internet times the poverty rate i want you to tax credit for the purchase of individual health insurance plans

i want to give small business employers a tax credit twenty five percent to encourage the providing of health insurance for all of the voices in small businesses i wanna give seniors who are well the nearly hour like that term because i'm just about in that category but those fifty five to sixty five or be able to buy into medicare for premiums that are reasonable and say aaron significantly below what they have to forget now that we're living with a big rivers on this and you need to know the record here under governor bush taxes has sought to be fiftieth out of fifty in health care and health insurance for their citizens last week he said that they were spending the three point seven billion dollars to four point seven billion dollars on this okay with immense i'm absolutely opposed to a national health care plan i want the federal government making decisions for consumers or for providers

i started in nineteen eighty three they tried to have a national healthcare plan and for surely if they like trust people i don't trust the federal government to be one of the things you hear tonight i want the federal government making decisions on behalf of the other is an issue with the uninsured bashir is without uninsured people in my state or has the biggest a fast growing state we share a common border with another nation or more provide health care for people one thing about insurance as a washington term question is are people in health care without a strong safety net and there needs to be a safety net in america and he's the more community health clinics for poor can go get health care and a program for the uninsured women talk about in washington dc the number of uninsured now gone up for the past seven years we need we needed two thousand are credit rebate for people working people and

on and insurers thing in the marketplaces are purchasing insurance we'd ever allow small businesses to write across in charge of procedures digital lives are small business can afford healthcare small restaurants can afford health care and sort of health care needs to be affordable and available we're just people make decisions lives in the medicare reform i talk about it says if you're a senior you say in medicare if you like it that's fine we'll give you other choices to choose if you want to be so just like they do in the federal employees the paperwork in washington dc for the us congress of the united states senate get a variety of choices to make in their lives and that's what we ought to do for help people in america is paying attention and i don't know i know education these folks submitted that eighteen eighteen questions on on education and the first one that is that there would be one that we will be asked on educational goal your governor will be asked

by mg here and there there he is a lot about education and the need to hold teachers and schools accountable and i certainly agree with that and as an individual with an educational background and also a parent i have seen a lot of incidences where the parents are and responsive to the teachers the board flat and involved in their child's education how do you intend to hold teachers and schools accountable and also hope lawrence well you know if you're making love one another and i wish in a lot of the larger sign it was you were supposed to be good parents are the things the next president must do is to remind people that we have a responsible peer in america that each of us must leverage your heart and all are so i have a belief on accountability encourages parental

involvement though when you measure and voters also on the internet or in the newspapers most parents say women much else to undo what i wanted to do and therefore become involved in education i recognize or some just don't seem to care but there are a lot of parents too feel like everything is going well in their child's school thomas and i wake up and realize that wait a minute standards are being met as was so strong for accountability probably we'll measure a lot three four five six seven eight grade and we do so in my state of texas one of the things we've done to texas's we've got strong accountability because you can't cure unless you know you can't you can't solve a problem unless a diagnosis i strongly believe that one the best things to do first one woman also has to know that the classroom to be safe and secure that's why i support a teacher liability act at the federal level this as a teacher

principal upholds reasonable standards of clashing and discipline they can't be sued they can't be sued by parents will be more involved with education when another shows class homes are safe and secure as well i also believe that we need to say to people that if you cannot meet standards there has to be a consequence as senators that from the soft bigotry of low expectations but there has to be a consequence we can continue to show for children through school and what the consequences the letters a different choices ms rosa north we have a huge difference between a song that's what i like to start by killing what my patients i see a day in the united states of america they're all of our public schools are considered excellent world class where there are no failing schools where the classrooms are small enough insights number soon so that the teacher can spend them of one on one time with each with each student now that means recruiting new

teachers for the public schools it means and not plant hiring bonuses to get a hundred thousand new teachers in the public schools within the next four years it means also helping local school districts that sometimes find the parents of school aged join outvoted on bond issues to give them some help with interest free bonding the farm so that we can build new schools and modernize the classrooms we need to give teachers the training and professional development that they need including a paid time off to go visit the classroom of a master teacher pick up some new skills i want to give every middle class family eighteen thousand dollar a year tax deduction for college tuition so that so that middle class families will always be able to send their kids to college i want to work for universal preschool because we know from all this saudis that that be the the youngsters learned that kids learn more in the first two years of life than anywhere else now i said

there was a contrast mr bush's for vouchers and in his plan he proposes to bring more money more taxpayer money out of the public schools for private school vouchers than all of the money that he proposes in his entire budget for public schools themselves and only one in twenty students would be eligible for these factors and they wouldn't even pay the full tuition at private school i think that some say i don't want to give up on the private schools and leave kids trapped in failing schools i think we i think we should make the number one priority to make our schools the best in the world all are and what is your position on the operation that i think any time we end with one of these attacks because it's appropriate to respond is that i think or small batches are the states you want a batch of programmers are a feisty i strongly believe and local control of schools and the governor of the state i don't like it when the federal government tells us what to do i believe a local control still but here's what i said i said to the staff we send federal money on

disadvantaged children we want the schools to show us whether or not their children are learning what's a reasonable statement of the standards in many respects every measurement and we find successful prizes but when we find children trapped in schools that will not change and will not teach ssi all this is okay in america just a shovel for kids to schools there has to be a consequence and the consequences that federal portion of federal money will go in the car so the party and go to a tutoring program or another public school or not a private school or private school you see there has to be a consequence we got a society that says hey the status quo was fine just a moment through i guess it suffers what i'm on about what's the other side on the program that he's proposing is not the one that you just described and you're lenin governor bush states would be required to take vouchers for students to match the vouchers so that the federal government would put up now here is can it the way it

would happen is that under his plan if the store was designated as failing the kids would be trapped there for another three years and then some of them would get federal vouchers in the state would be forced to the matters that money under my plan if a school is failing we work with the states to give them the authority and resources to close down that school and re open it right away with a new principal a new factory a turnaround team of specialists who know what they're doing i think it's based on the planet go on in north carolina and it works great so no letters if i thought that there was no alternative then i might feel different but i i have an obligation to fight that to make sure there are no failing schools we got a turnaround all the schools are x but we got to make sure that all of them and it cost her as a related question on education but right on this sunday it cost her work very

honest for vice president or this river and in school districts in which i work and countless others across the nation we face a crumbling school buildings increase school violence street map of the overcrowding lack of funding lawsuits the list goes on a conventional to work and my fellow american speeches today about your plans for immediate future will greatly they help out as well as we are rules or ice as ben i mention that there's a that's betty on local communities or have no more time passing bond issues traditionally viewed been involved in not

a campaign like that you know the parents of kids in school the ones that turn out and so it's ironic that there are now authors now smaller percentage of the voters made up of parents with children everywhere because of the aging of our population what the same time we've got the largest generation of students in public schools are more than ninety percent of america's children go to public schools and though it's the largest number ever this year and the bright red or next year and every year for ten years running when i do something about this and local it's not enough to leave it up to the local school district they're not able to do it and our future depends upon a lot more information age our economic future depends upon whether or not our children are going to get the kind of education that lets him go on to college and again a warning make it wasn't for all middle class families to send their kids to college and more pell grants for those who are in the lower income groups also and i will make sure that we have job training on top of that and lifelong morning when all sorts with the public school teachers at my

proposal gives ten thousand dollars hiring bonuses for those teachers who are are certified to teach in the areas where they're most needed not accountable but we would basically agree on a cowboy not plan requires testing of all students it also records something that governor bush's plan doesn't it records testing of all new teachers including in the subjects that they teach we have to start treating teachers like the professionals that they aren't given the respect and and that kind of quality of life that will draw more people into taking quote we need a lot more teachers to the total of all the federal spending or center is the largest increase in federal spending in years and it's not only about money i guess i have been a governor of a big state had made education my number one priority

for us that's what the voters are going to say this is the most important thing we do as a state parameters about six percent of money on but what about you sixty percent of string trio fill out paperwork or not you have to be a paperwork for our most of its cousin the federal government about one a business and flexibility afforded to the local folks you can choose one size does not fit all that worried about the rising education are you guys that i believe strongly that if obama can help lead to fund head start when he to have accountability to the presidents plan does not have a new accountability third grade fourth grade fifth grade we need to demand results i believe strongly in a patient teacher protection act like i mentioned i hear from speeches all the time about the lawsuits and threats respect in the classroom

part of this because you can't you can't control the classroom you can have a consequence for somebody without fear getting sued under federal law so mrs to congress to pass a teacher protection act saw believe in flexibility i believe in a nashville reading initially for local districts to access with katie two diagnostic testing curriculum that works fine it works by the way these be a part of our curriculum and he's the flexibility for teacher training and teacher hiring with federal money the federal government can be a part but but both operate all this stuff about money or money there because education is really fun at the local level many four percent come from the local us president laurent is the governor right when he says that you're proposing the largest federal spending in years absolutely not absolutely not i'm so glad that i have a chance to not that now the problem is that under the governor bush's plan one point six trillion dollar tax cuts mostly for the wealthy under his own

budget numbers he proposes spending more money for tax credits for the wealthiest one percent then all of the new money that the budgets for education and healthcare a national defense combined now under my plan we would balance the budget every year and on to say in the summer just talking i have help to balance the budget for the first time in thirty years paid down but that can undermine plans in four years as a percentage of our gross domestic product federal spending will be the smallest that it has been in fifty years one reason is you know the third biggest spending item in our budget is interest on the national debt we get nothing for it we keep the good faith and credit of the united states i will be there every single year until it is eliminating early in the next decade that the intrusion of the federal government in our economy now because the governor has all this money for tax cuts mostly for the wealthy there is no money left over so so

schools that testing and another for a lawsuit reform and and not much else government of us to losers are oh well he's wrong how does that of all the numbers it's three times bigger than what president clinton proposes senate budget committee my turn as well forget the journalists he propose more than walter mondale and michael dukakis combine that this is a big spender is the army private is part of his record we just have a different philosophy we talk about tax relief if you cut taxes you're going to actually the vice president believes that only the right people and it's actually if i don't think that's a rule the president to take your right and you're right i

mean you have to actually everybody on again and therefore wealthy people are going to get it but the top one percent will end up paying one third of the taxes in america and they get one fifth of the benefits and that's because we structured the plan so the six million additional american families pay no taxes if your family for making fifty thousand dollars and missouri get a fifty percent cut your federal income taxes were going to set priorities funded there's extra money and i believe the people pay the bills i mean i get some money back it's a difference of opinion he was to grow the government and i trust you with your own money i was going to spend an hour talking about trusting people it is the right position to take and we're going to go about once a clear though that the governor gets to reverse the day what do you say specifically to what the vice president said tonight you said many many times that your tax benefits the top one percent of the wealthiest americans and you heard what laura's advice if you pay taxes or getting a benefit people would pay taxes

it will get tax relief operation finished less well under my plan if you make it at the top of the wealthy people by sixty two percent in taxes and then afterwards i pay sixty four percent this is a fair plan you know why are the tax code isn't server people at the bottom end of the economic ladder if you're single mother making twenty two thousand dollars a year did a huge and raised two children for every additional dollar you are you pay higher marginal rate on the dollar than someone making two hundred thousand dollars and it's not right look this isn't about your voice it's not about me it is about you and i would come back to something i said before if you want somebody who believes that we were better off eight years ago and we are now and that we ought to go back to the kind of policies that we had back in emphasizing tax cuts mainly for the wealthy you hear german if you want somebody who will fight for you and we will fight to have

middle class tax cuts than i'm your man i want it now he i doubt anybody here makes more than three hundred thousand dollars a year i want ask if you do you're in the top one percent it would be a violation of the rules and have not known as i'm not a matter of what if everyone here in this audience was was dead on in the middle of the middle class than the tax cuts for every single one of you all added up would be last then the tax cut his plan would give you just one member of that top wealthiest one percent know you judge for yourselves with another fifty million americans get no tax relief from his plan as not running may now be one has now won the right people and suddenly without enough it is time to unite you talk about eight years in a years they haven't done anything below medicare social security a place as the words i've sandy's on the eye we're

here when i i cast a tie breaking vote to add twenty six years still the life of medicare it was due to go bankrupt in nineteen ninety nine and that there are fifteen million figure again i said you said forget a journalist but they are the keepers of the scorecard and whether not hear the news and facts in our right and that that fact is just not right speaking of keepers of the scorecard us what on condominium bush without it we're gonna move on women have to move on right there were twelve questions on foreign military matters and first when the women asked will be directed to you governor bush and david moyes and destroyed or a ferry or a wallaby while i'm at the best candidate in office during the middle east crisis i've been a leader in a person has a set a clear vision

and convince people to follow and i am i got a strategy for the middle east and for some say that our nation and they speak with one voice during this time and i applaud the president for working hard to defuse tensions our nation needs to be credible and strong and we say were somebody's friend everybody's gotta believe in israel's our friend will stand buyers are willing to reach out to modern arab nations as well to build coalitions to keep the peace i i also knew that the next year is the patient can't put the middle east peace process on our timetable it's going to be on the timetable of the people they're trying to bring to the peace table it can dictate the terms of peace museum to be standing here we're about polls and focus groups that have a clear vision a

little leaguer does we're also understands that the us case must be strong to keep the peace saddam hussein still is a threat in the middle east are coalition against saddam is unraveling sanctions are loosened high demand who may be developing weapons of mass destruction we don't know its inspectors are now so there's your question where's clear vision willingness to stand by our friends and the credibility for people both friend and foe understand where america says something we mean a future when the world is at peace with the united states of america are promoting the values of democracy and human rights and freedom all around the world even in iran they have had an election that began to bring about some

change we stand for those values and we have to be willing to assert that right now our military is the strongest than just our history of the world i will i pledge to you i will do whatever is necessary to make sure that states are now what can i bring to that shout when i was a young man my father was a senator opposed to the vietnam war when i graduated from college and there were plenty of fancy ways to get out of going be a part of that i will not volunteer and i went to vietnam i didn't do the most to run the greatest risk while long shot but i learned what was like to be an enlisted man in the united states army in the congress in the house representatives are served on the house intelligence committee and i worked hard to to learn the subject of nuclear arms control and how we can the fuse these tensions and deal with

nonproliferation deal with the problems of terrorism in these new weapons of mass destruction look we're going to face some serious new challenges in the next four years i worked on that long and hard when i went to the united states senate i asked for an assignment to the armed services committee and while i was there i worked on a bipartisan basis as i did in the house has worked with for president reagan on the modernization of our strategic weaponry and that in the senate i was one of only ten democrats along with senator joe lieberman support the government which is that in the persian gulf war resolution and for the last eight years i've served on the national security council can si just one other thing mr leavitt that within your next question is do you know what it's a related its related questions from the us what can without parole i think that he he gets the idea on story right there and

today our military forces are up stretched thinner and doing more than they've ever done before during peacetime like you know what do i think we all like to know what you as president would do to ensure proper resourcing for the current mission and two or more selectively choosing the time and place our forces will be constrained world thank you sir i've just finished briefly and i sort of say that for the last eight years have been on the national security council and alas we got broke up a suspended campaigning for for for today's report two days to go back in bridges update in the meetings that sort of the presence of summit meeting that he just returned from earlier today an art easel our country's team over there did i did a great job it's a difficult situation of the united states have to be strong in order to make sure that we can help promote peace and security and stability and that means keeping our military strong not said earlier that we are the strongest military but we need to to continue improving readiness and making sure that our

military personnel are adequately pay and that the combination of their pay and benefits and their retirement is veterans are is this comparable to the stiff competition that's coming in a strong economy from the from the private sector and what i have supported the largest pay raise in many a year and i support another one now i also support modernization of our strategic and tactical weapon the governor's proposed getting a generation of technology i think that's so i think that would be a mistake because i think one of the ways we've been able to be so successful in kosovo bosnia and haiti and in other places is by having the technological innovation you know we won that conflict impossible without losing a single human life i can incumbents in american life and come back now on readiness the trends before we before i got my current job were on the decline in the number of divisions were

reduced i argued that we should reverse that trend and taken back up and i'm happy to say that we have now i'm on a budget for the next for the next ten years i propose a hundred billion dollars for this purpose the government closes forty five billy i propose more than twice as much because i think it's maybe the rest of us things are spinning contest i come in second i really meant to say the federal government like is your question was the plan it must be in the national interest has been our vital interest whether we ever send troops the mission must be clear so his most understand where we're going the force must be strong enough so that the mission could be accomplished any exit strategies to the world of fine i'm concerned that world are deployed around the world say i think the mission has says somewhat become fuzzy chalabi forcing other governments

the mission of the nicest military will be to be prepared and ready to fight and when war and therefore prevent war from happening in the first place there may be some moments when we use or troops as peacekeepers but not often the vice president mentioned my view of long term for the military or make sure they prefer military is of the sick and possibly be of course but we have an opportunity and opportunity is our research and development capacity is great technology of the united states the maker of military life are harder to find more lethal with an opportunity really to think about it if you're smart and if their strategic visionary leader who understands strategic planning to make sure that our we change the terms of the battlefield the future so it may keep the peace is a peaceful nation it indicates he's spending money is one thing but

spending money without a strategic plan can oftentimes be wasted first thing i'm a disaster the secretary defense the spell of the plan so we make sure we're not spending the money on political projects were projects to make sure soldiers are well paid well house have the best equipment in the world another kind of gun question will be asked by robert lutz floods requests as we just like to know what is your opposition to the other hand until you like to know why you'd sector brady handgun believed that if you do object to it as a recent tv ad is so that the national rifle association says if you are elected that they will be working out your office i have to say a trial by the national rifle association ran enamored my position on guns and general surfing online that is his managers finishers course our father's

voice it and like that would explain it well i don't think i ran the ad i think somebody don't want to be present my run that ad itself that was in my head and that might've been one of my opponents is your beliefs are i believe law abiding citizens of the electorate themselves in their families i believe that we are the key gonzalo hands people should have a nice one for instant background checks at gun shows and the trigger lock something that makes sense they're fed we distribute creature lives in the state of texas he will begin with women or guns make their guns more safer but will raise the age in which juveniles can have a gun but also believe strongly that we need to enforce laws on the books that the best way to make sure that we keep our society safe and secure is tall people accountable for for breaking the law because somebody illegally selling a gun isn't a consequence

to keep somebody in the legal use of the gun isn't a consequence foresman along the federal government can help support program called project x owners and regionally focused funneled taxpayers' money and federal prosecutors going after people who are legally and illegally using guns made as it makes aside the safest to convey and so yeah sometimes i agree with some of these groups in washington and sometimes i don't i'm a pretty independent thinker for one thing and for is a safe society and forth orson was a moment's notice that issue earlier that well one when it was not one of my head stood either governor are but i am familiar with a statement and it was made by one of the top ranking officials of that organization on lenny kaye in my position i think that some calm and sense gun safety measures are sorely needed with a flood

of cheap handguns that have sometimes been working their way into the hands of the wrong people but all of my proposals are focused on that problem safety none of my proposals would have any affect on hunters or sportsmen for people who used the rifles are they are there and that the real problem of migrants mostly from neighborhoods well so let's have a three day waiting period and cooling off so we can have a background check to make sure that criminals and people who really shouldn't have guns don't get that i'd like to use my remaining time on this exchange the gym but to respond to this to an exchange that took place just a moment ago because a couple times the governor said that i am for a bigger government connor i'm not only tell you what the record shows the last eight years i have and the challenge of running the streamlining program for reinventing government if there's any federal employees in this group you know

what that means the federal government has been reduced in size by more than three hundred thousand people and it's now the smallest number that we have had since the smallest inside since the john kennedy's administration during the the last five years texas government has gone up insights from roman has gone down texas' government has gone up now my plan for the future i see at a time when we have smaller smarter government were you don't have to wait in line or you can get services online cheaper better faster we can do the state liquor as a question and it is for life whether go to occur through vice president or a family farms are disappearing and having a hard time even in the current massive economic environment what steps would you or your illustration take on agriculture or

housing developments to protect the family farms for this multi functional service they perform with a bumper crop this year but that's the good news you know what the bad news is that falls on the prices low in the last several years the so called freedom reform law as in my view been mostly at first i would change many of its provisions and many here will what were not involved in farming don't will follow this just forgiven because the two percent of the country that is involved in farming is important for the rest of twenty except for them and then you guys and have a hard time and i wanna fight i watch as those provisions tore a meaningful safety net and i think that that you pointed the way in your comments because when you say they're at their mortal things accomplished

about former here specifically including conservation protection of the environment us farmers are the first environmentalists and when they decide not to apply a feel that it's vulnerable to slow erosion that may cost a little money but it helps the environment i think that we all have an expanded conservation reserve program and i think that the environmental benefits that come from sound management of the land or to represent a new way for farmers to get some income you to make sensible choice is opium crop rotation and when you leave the the land fallow and the rest now i go beyond that and say i think we need much more focused rural economic development programs i see a time win win the internet based activities are more available in the rural areas and were the extra source of income that farm families used to have for my shoe factories or is replaced by an extra source of income from from a working in the information become so we need to do a lot

of things that we ought to start with a better safety net and westerners alike are former seeding the world with best best best producers in the world and i want to know what the farmers the world we need to open up markets exports are down and become an export number goes down hurts the farmer and what the next president fast track negotiating authority to open up markets around the world were the best the most efficient fishing farmers i want to use it as a diplomatic weapon from this point forward we should be using from farmers is that the right thing to do and a lot of value added processing meaning more work on their year process take the raw product you reduce prison reform of your farm and you convert it and very a process of support and for research and development spending research

unveiling money so that we can these are technological base through that new uses for farm products and forgetting where the death tax completely game where the death tax one reason family farmers are forced to sell our way is because of the death tax cigarette tax resolution the veto that bill say it's a tax that taxes people twice penalizes the family farmer so should be forcing afternoon vote i also understand the markets but us understand that farming is a former national security lawyer from a big farm state of the second biggest a former state the country and there are from a farmer's friends all the time but isn't sure i know where it is or they feel the land and now that i liked it i liked the policies that will encourage farmers to set aside land as well for conservation purposes like a quick thing

on the inheritance tax has a lead there is a difference between the two of you on this i'm for a massive reform obviously are an under the plan that i propose a person all family farm to be completely exempt a from the estate tax i n and the vast majority of all a family business would be completely exempt and all of the others would have sharply reduced so a present another problem with completely eliminating it goes back to go to the wealthiest one percent the amount of money that has to be raised in taxes for middle class families to make up for completely eliminating odd that only of the very wealthiest and billionaires that would that would be an extra heavy burden on middle class families and so let's do it for most all but not completely eliminated overtime was the case for going to the main the death tax as they push in the test for summer assets here unfair for some run for for all

again this is a difference of opinion if you're from washington you what they can choose winners of the us are all the president and they were going to actually everybody benefits secondly i think a plan a lot of time for a new plan as vice president of a respected as a messenger eight percent of people get it the death tax analysts a hundred percent organic i think if i'm the president i still think it's fairer tax people's assets wise regardless of your status so fairness issue sin issue principle not politics new issue to issue and the question will be as a cleaner the work was just as i'm very concerned about the morality of our country now tv movies the music better to learn ours are you know arise to earth every day i want to know if there's anything

that can be worked out hollywood or whoever to help get rid of some of the spanish language in that whatever you know it's just ringing the country down and our children are very poor interests and are concerned about their education at school which he concerned about their education at home also they perceive that question lorne are proud parents of teenage girls twin daughters in an order saying stand on the side of paris persecution of july from wrong in the message also oftentimes gets undermined by the paul popular culture you better since the government can do we can work with the entertainment industry to provide family hour we can now have filters on it and that's where public money is that

they're out of the filters and public libraries and filters and public schools of his gear on the internet lebanese unarmed fleeing violence coming that they will have character education or schools eleven directly talk about hollywood but it does reinforce the values you're teaching really expand character education funding so the public schools to teach children values values which have stood the test of time and after school money available i think that after school money ought to be available for faith based programs and charitable programs that exist because somebody answered the call to love a neighbor like you'd like to be love yourself they'll help reinforce the values that parents teach at home as well as ours a great land and weather is was prisoner four years i don't support censorship but i do believe that we aren't are plainly to the hollywood moguls people

producer stuff and explain the consequences have rating systems are clear and i am like the idea of having that technology for the tvs and for personal use even to happen programs that you don't want in your house but amara my mother's embarrassed the best weapons the off on but we're paying attention to children any endeavor with them and they are in an infant and be an answer farm workers need to hear a lot about this scientists movies television video games music the internet parents now feel like you have to come he with the mass culture in order to raise your kids with the values that you want i have four children decide on their own to come here the sea i will embarrass our

oldest archie her husband made us grandparents almost a year and a half ago i care and and yet if you're forgiven when she was little she brought record home that has some awful where it's an n and separate the ceiling and that launched a campaign to try to get the record companies to put ratings that warning labels for her parents and i'm so proud of what she accomplished and getting them on fire i've been involved myself in negotiating in and helping to move along the negotiations with the internet service providers to get a carrot rejection page every time ninety five percent of the cages come up and a feature that allows parents to automatically check with one click what sights your kids have visited lately you know some parents are worried about those filters that night that her kids would have you can check up on and then you have your youth that's

real power and recently the federal trade commission pointed out that some of these entertainment companies have warned parents that the material isn't appropriate for jordan than they turned around behind the backs of their parents and advertise that say no material directly to george that is an outrage joe lieberman i gave him six months to clean up their act and if they don't do it we're going to ask for tougher authority on him and so the ftc on the false and deceptive advertising out that yes i want to do something about this respect the first amendment what i will do something to help you raise your kids without that act as president gore next questions for you and i will be asked by steven grossman there we go it seems that when we hear about issues that this campaign is usually medicare social security or prescription drugs as a college professor a lot of young people who feel eternal issues

directed to them and they don't plan to build new best friend i spent a good deal of time talking to young people and in my standard the speech out there on the stump i usually am i must be saying i want ask you for something and i wanted to record especially to young people in the audience and i would say what i tell them sometimes people who are very idealistic and how great dreams as young people do our actress day at arm's length from the political process because they think they're good hearts might be brittle and if they invest their hopes and allow themselves to believe then they're going to be let down disappointed but thank goodness we've always had enough people who have been willing and every generation which has the fear of a broken heart and become deeply involved in forming a more perfect union were america and then we we believe in our future and we know we have the ability to shape our future

now we've got address one of the one of the biggest threats to our democracy and that is the current campaign financing system and i know they say it didn't write anywhere on the polls i'll believe i don't believe that's a fair measure and telling it i will make it the automaker mccain feingold campaign finance reform bill the very first measure that ice into the congress as president or bush opposes either i wish that he would consider changing his mind on that because i think that the special interests have too much power and we need to give our democracy back for the american people like they want those issues you mentioned social security prescription drugs the big drug companies are against the prescription drug proposal that meant the age of those are against the patient's rights building norwood bill that i support and the younger bush does not support the big oil companies are against the measures to get it more energy independence and renewable fuels they ought to have their voices heard what they shouldn't have a big megaphone that

drowns out the american people we need campaign finance reform and we need to shoot straight with the young and old alike and tell them what the real choices are and we can renew and rekindle the american spirit and make our future what our founders dream ticket we can't say what i hear a lot of people are sick and tired of bitterness in washington dc and therefore the ahwahnee part of politics they look at washington and see people point fingers and kesten the line and say one thing and do another law young folks at a while only involved in business and what i think needs to happen or to encourage the young to become involved is to shoot straight is to set aside partisan differences and set an agenda that will make sense medicare i know you talk about the medicare is is as relevant for all of this young and old alike we better

get right now tax reform is relevant for old union ally are easy issues the term itself i think it's a tone i think is the attitude i think is a cynicism in washington and it doesn't have to be that way for us senate run and the resulting issues in my mind one your family and you're all this business back in the conclusion that our love was strong enough real the mayor was cut administration change the tone and watch nbc cannot believe answers yes i love was when they ask you for your vote with what happened in texas we work together as a man years on his removal berliner is the chairman of the health committee he came here for a reason that our record on health in texas is a democrat i think youre witty republican mayor pro accurate does that we work together that's in washington dc is entirely serve as your

question in a semi in office until the truth as the best way to get people back in the system and we're sure north korea's next question and it's for you recreate worry how will your ministration address it first the inclusiveness and what role will affirmative action played in your overall plan i've had a record of keeping people from all walks a life into my administration and my maturation girl for texas five people that we serve the country but our diverse administration think it's important i work hard in the state of texas to make sure institutions or reflect the state with good smart policy policy that rejects quarters so like what was closed in the pit one group of people against another quarters

of it for america's up the way america is all about the policies that that good people helping hand saying help themselves for example and our state of texas have worked with the legislature both republicans and democrats to pass along the city come in the top ten percent your high school class your magazine and whatever whenever ayers says a higher citizens born in college and as a result art or our universe isn't a more diverse a smart thing to do is what i call it a label but affirmative access the contracting business and government can help out with voters but at me and all of ownership of small businesses for example the contracts even the smaller the agencies need to be made to recruit and the work hard to find people to bet on the state contracts

and we can do that in a way that the rivers is what america's all about which is equal opportunity and owner and an opportunity for people to realize their potential so there's your questionnaire support this way the book is affirmative access prime minister selected for a thousand or a bleeding that's a goal and this effort with all my heart i believe that our future as a nation depends upon whether or not we can break down these barriers that had been used to that group against through that and bring our people together how do you do well we establish respect for difference you don't ignore the differences it's all too easy for somebody in the majority of the population is our just all all the same without an understanding of the different life experience you think that others have had once you have an understanding and mutual respect then we can transcend the differences and embrace that heist from a number of the american spirit iona what affirmative access means i do know what

affirmative action means i know the governor's against that and i know that i'm for an award a hate crime statute pending at the national level is all about in the aftermath divisions on for the proposed law is against i know what it means to have a commitment to diversity i am part of an administration that has the finest record on diversity and ended snow in x one i mean i think our success over the last eight years has not been in spite of diversity but the calls are those were able to draw on the wisdom and experience from different parts of the society that had been trapped in the same way before and as adele what mel carnahan in missouri had the finest record on diversity in the entire history of the state that among these other achievements here now but i just believe that what we have to do is to force the civil rights lawsuit against quotas says with all due

respect to garner that's a red herring affirmative action isn't course i'm against what's their illegal they're against the american life affirmative action means that you take extra steps to acknowledge the history of discrimination and injustice and prejudice and bring all people in to the american dream because it helps everybody not just those who were directly beneath is you are you opposed to affirmative action times every action is quotas on the gas engine for election is what i just described what i'm for therefore you are what i was for a friendly gives them against things euros for and that's what i support he said of affirmative action musical is he's against affirmative action doesn't mean their votes or euphoric without coats i may not be for your versions to vice president but after what i just described the lady what the supreme court says is a constitutional way of having affirmative action let's

go on to another question and listeners wrote in space for the fact that there are certain rules and there's that we all agree to that and they were so many things questions for your watch or unleash a key west city wearing revealed how your tax proposals effectively isn't enough clams thirty four year old single person and if you make less than sixty thousand dollars a year and you decide to invest five thousand dollars in a savings account you'll get a tax credit which means intestines that will matter thousand dollars with another thousand bucks if you make less than thirty thousand dollars a year and you've put five hundred dollars in a savings account the federal government will matter with fifteen hundred dollars if you make more than sixty thousand appointees still get a match but not as generous you'll get a lot of

access to lifelong learning and education help with the tuition if you want to get a new skill or portraying if you if you want to purchase health insurance you will get help with that if you want to protest the plate and some of the dynamic changes that are going on in our in our country you will get specific help in doing that if you are poor are really on the bottom twenty percent or so of the wage earners and then you will get an expanded earned income tax credit now the tax relief is directed specifically that middle income individuals and families are and if you have a if you have an elderly parent or grandparent who needs long term care that you will get help with their three thousand dollars tax credit to help your expenses and taking care of a loved one who needs long term

care i'm going to say the first three of this as the us about an entitlement you try to describe the savings are massive savings are massive savings they're fully funded it's going to cost whole lot of money a lot more than the half a unit tests we fundamentally an enemy target and reporting that everybody as jessica tax relief if you take your mail in your home you know get the first ones at an increased i think also what's unique thing about is not the media what about medicare you get a plant that will include prescription drugs a planet will give you options now how people understand that medicare today is iss is important but they don't keep up with the new medicines for medicare person on medicare you don't have them in new procedures stuck in a time warp in many ways

still be a modern medicare system that choice you make a variety of options for you know i live in a peaceful world would be a world of peace because we have a clear clear center for policy based on a strong military the mission the stamp buyer for iran's mission of them trying to be all things to all people the judicious use of the military which will help keep the peace in their world leaders were educated so it's less likely you'll be harming an overseer educated challenged one much more likely to the hopeful and optimistic you'll be in a world which fits into my philosophy of harder work are you work the more you thinking see american way that mentioned the heavy hand of the federal government has to be a helping hand to actually from proposals i just described should be helping him questions for you and rio anderson last well you

might and one last time they scale on the subject of capital punishment came up and in your response to questions simple will enjoy as a matter fact robert texas leave and live nation in execution of prisoners are certain atmosphere you're responsible you're really really proud of the fact that texas one executions that there was very serious it's a decision to be born obviously disagree on i take my job seriously to think i think differently i i wish for nepal was a mustang in the course of the campaign in nineteen eighty four i was asked to support the us that a good measure fairly and justly as i believe it saved

lives and i think that's in their ships swiftly justly fairly it saves lives the things that happens we're going to make tough decisions public persuasion sway because the job through force of the law and they're so bad in some of these cases come across my desk is from the hardest moments of seven the governor of the state of texas so the auspices of my job is asking questions of the person guilty of the crime and the present full access to courts a lot i can tell you looking at right now and all cases those answers were from an upcoming record i'm proud effect of violent crimes than the state of texas we hold people accountable

ms rosenberg a supportive of i think it has to be administered not only fairly with attention to things like dna evidence which i think they should be used in all capital cases but also it was a very careful attention if for example somebody and confesses to the crime that somebody is waiting on death row and arrested the alertness to say wait a minute we got the wrong guy with the wrong guys put to death in that's a double tragedy on not only as an innocent person and executed but the real richter owner of the crime and has not been held accountable for in some cases may be still at war ah but i'll support the death penalty in the most heinous cases to both of you believe that the death penalty actually george crumb and it's only reason before i don't want an efficient or injured for the death valley to seek revenge over detroit

i think the reason support their families can save other people's lives give them to turn funnel that's a controversial view but i do believe that the term questions are you foreign policy issue in alaska mr fisher yes my us it's very classic st clair school when it asks all these promises he doesn't make him at all the places we keep them when you're in office right i'm a person gets promises and you know we've heard a lot about from the governor about not much is being done in the last eight years as if all the promises that and i made eight years ago have not been kept the record shows otherwise we have

gone from the biggest ever since eight years ago to the biggest services industry that they're instead of high unemployment we now have the lowest african american unemployment the lowest latino one point ever measured twenty two million new jobs a very low unemployment it's one of four times over we have seen the dead actually begun to be paid down here some promises that i'll make you know i will balance the budget every year i will pay down the debt every year i will give middle class americans tax cuts meaningful ones and i will invest in education healthcare protecting the environment and retirement security we both made promises in this campaign i promise you i'll keep my military about one of the government's he has promised a

trillion dollars out of the cell security trust fund for young working adults to invest in stable now but he's promising years that they're so security benefits will not be cut and he's promised the same trillion dollars to them so this is a show me say it reminds me of a line from the movie show me the money which one of those promises will you keep and which we've recovered from worth it for your question i am i am there's an old high school debater witches dance or something and then attack your opponent in the us about promises on your promise and medicare be reformed and associative the reformed you promised a middle class tax cut it netted two didn't happen to his bitterness in washington too much wrangling it's time to have a fresh start

when the reason i was successful as the governor of texas is designing try to be all things to all people now campaigning in a race was posting think i could win living well in my mother i said before things for reform education reform welfare reform the juvenile justice reform and i want and i had the will of people must a tiny animal close together to get it down unless we need i think in this election to me this was all about and a listener sends usage figures allison keyes dare say anything elected but there's a record as well people again were not promises that we saw security for me that we need to take for you know for you know a zealot two point four trillion dollars surplus remember so security revenue exceeds expenses up until twenty fifteen the role you play with your younger worker you're younger you know discussing things differently otherwise empty faces huge payroll

taxes or reduce benefits and you that we take a trillion dollars of your own money and lets you invest in under state guidelines to get a better rate to return the money in the pottery two percent of the federal government has created a swarm of promises but it's going to require people to bring both republicans and democrats together to get it done so that requires us a chance to get this done rep carson approach has been rejected and will bring together both of you both of you on the seventy or other questions and also gold this skepticism not necessarily about you but all people in politics and why is that for a first told him i'd like to i'd like to respond to what the governor does that cause be the trillion dollars that has been promising young people as also been promised the older people and you cannot keep both promises if you're in your mid forties under the governor's plan social security will be bankrupt by the time you

retire if he takes it out of the service so scary trussell under my plan it will be is it's almost it will be extended until your hundred now that is that the president and the government not wanna answer that question you may want to call it a high school debating trip would say this this election is not about debating tricks it is about your future the reason so security says he gives two percent you know it's not a bank account it also that they're just pays back money that's invested it is also used to give your mothers and fathers the social security checks that they live on if you take a trillion dollars out of the social security trust fund howard schatz going to be hard to keep faith with the science now many companies were were one theory one reason people are skeptical as does people don't answer the questions they've been asked a trillion dollars comes out a surplus salute you confess i'm your own money as a

supervisor and how what workers have their own assets the address governor people gored what's given all begin by answering your question i record us what i believe that a lot of people are skeptical about people in politics today because we have seen the time off of a great challenge for a country since the assassination of our best leaders and sixty since the vietnam war since watergate and because we need campaign finance reform i'd like to tell you something about me i keep my word i have kept the faith it i kept the faith with my country and i'm a volunteer for the army and served in vietnam i kept the faith with my family ever not been married for thirty years we devoted ourselves to our children and our nearly one a half year old grandson i have kept the faith with our country

nine times i have raised my hand to take in both of the constitution and i have never violated that both i have not spent the last quarter century in pursuit of personal wealth i've spent the last quarter century fighting for middle class working men and women in the united states of america i believe very deeply that you have to be willing to stand up and fight no matter what powerful forces might be on the other side if you want somebody who is willing to fight for you i am asking for your support and your vote and yes your confidence and your willingness to believe that we can do the right thing in america and we've made some progress during the last eight years we have seen the strongest economy in the history of the united states lower crime rates for eight years in a row highest private homeownership ever but i'll make you one promise

here you ain't seen nothin yet and i will keep that prompts the question that's within hours it affects culture wars scene university in the vice president pre shift a chance to have an honest dialogue about our differences of opinion and i think of the three debates the people this country understand there's a difference of opinion said the restraint that federal government in some ways come from outside washington who address individuals i've got an agenda that i want to get done for the country says jenna dasilva reform medicare make sure seniors about the prescription drugs we give seniors different options which they can choose so generous as ordinary listen to the young voices and so security and severe think differently about making sure we have a system but also fulfill the promise to the seniors in america a promise made will be a promise kept you have the fortune of becoming president will rebuild the military to keep the peace corps make sure the public school system in america feels as promised so that no

child about one child is left behind after setting priorities when you're somewhat some your money back sell think the surplus is the government's money i think is the people's money i'll think the surplus exists because of the ingenuity and hard work in the federal government i think it's just because of the ingenuity and hard work of the american people and you would have some of the surplus or you can save and ryan unveiled but for the final weeks of this campaign i'm asking for your vote for those of the foreman thanks for help for those you for my opponent please only vote once i mean i for those are not made up their mind i'd like to conclude by this commission that before so it's becoming president and i put my hand on the bible elsewhere to not only uphold the laws of the land but i will also sort of pull the honor and the dignity office which i had been elected so help me god thank you very much the closing piece of business before we go the debate commission wants reaction to the three

kinds of formats used in the debates this year and you may register an opinion at their website that he had that he had done he had debates dot org thank you vice president gore obama bush from st louis on jim lehrer margaret warner in washington given what's in the final presidential debate between cowboy george w bush at washington university in st louis to say the family is now going to candidates and state and another that on with syndicated columnist mark shields and we'll figure out our thoughts and you know i i don't have a big point of the billboards are so confident they both came of the strategy is so striking to me was the difference in strategy song now

or try to become an al gore the convention speech the fight against big forces of big oil and big drugs i will fight for you and try to draw distinctions on issues with governor bush across the board even try and the first question was freezing walking over to an obscure story about if you want to get into dialogue and then backing away without quite it were a bush for his part trying to trump that with philosophy of big government vs small he trust washington i trust the people in with him and is very effective making the case on bipartisanship and and i can get something done was the case for change of those most affected answer was when he was asked about the cynicism and young people toward politics and so the questioners said is it the issues and also jerry salinger is usually just the tone it's the cynicism was very strong on that in that it has become his top issue for change and he made that case one of and it makes me wonder why the bush people ever been walking ever wanted to avoid debate because of the fees that the debates

biological marker i thought first of all that it was set out for his most aggressive i'm george w bush had a thematic consistency to his message to every question he got he returned to the thing it feeds all of which sounded of compassionate conservative small government provide trust you for saving money and not in a bidding war for your support all but at the same time i thought i had a case a third night jitters at the beginning he edits reverted to talking and sentence fragments it didn't seem to be as long as he had been in the second debate his biggest problem like it into the questions that are at the idea that a formulation quite frankly i thought his answer on the tax cut was the best he's ever given which is the one individual rights in the top one percent of all it's more that everybody else the middle class a tax cut that would

only one city or even as it flared a multidimensional use in order are the second debate he was that every question isn't equal urgency and people in their eyes but i thought i thought it was a war that was far more on on his game and he had been you know the first the second debate and i thought gee do the difference is quite well with the with the gobs of a crippling about any of his animal come back but do you think that all that that war changed the dynamic of the race that's what we said going into this my impression would be no that in fact bush did bush's goal here was to reassure people even more than the first two times with his with his governing style with his philosophy and i think he achieved that and that's a subtlety or change that a market report it would have to do i think i think we'll make the case for that he has in the past in the past eight years and he wanted of that we better off or not there are i might but i think the next thirty six hours we spend eternity

was right in the numbers of words they argued there are a lot of points of contention and disagreement and i don't go away but we're going to turn now to when i thought for some partisan reaction thanks margaret for that assessment we turn to two veteran media strategist republican greg stevens at by senator john mccain during the republican primaries and help prepare him for debates against governor bush among others and democrat race rather he helped prepare lloyd bentsen for his vice presidential debate against dan quayle in nineteen eighty eight it seems that they both have something to prove tonight one would order to prove that we're better off that we were eight years ago and out and georgia b busch i'd prove that they didn't do enough for the last eight years greg stevens who pool which candidate oh well i think first of all it was a much better debate when a lot faster i think was much more entertaining than it has been certainly gordon a better job he's done in the last two debates but i think that the

onus was on him to score some in essence not knockout punches and i didn't see any knockout punches in fact governor bush to the next and job on several fronts the morality question was actually answered the tax question by the way i think the best that he's answered that question since you've been debating again and frankly governor bush showed something tonight that he grew as a debater he grew in his ability i think johanna oneself in this kind of format and while the vice president gore has done a thousand town meetings will last years this is not something the governor bush i thought that looked for tonight but he did quite well my son my twelve girls on comedy night before i came on he said that what ok every answer the questions and i said i don't know sun but tonight i think they did i think they both have a pretty good job of answering questions about a racetrack with al gore i have to land a knockout punch and i i don't think he had that he had made a knockout punch that i think he staggered bush about five or six rounds i found a very

interesting that will better feel for gordon i'd rather than part of that first row is expected expectations were extremely and i think he met them i think bush in many cases manage to live down is parental expectations and hours to re interested in courts body language and his movement on the stage he commanded the stage it was sort of commander gory commander george bush he commanded the stage not party is the audience of factory and well as a medium and i was really impressed with gourds to me right in his hands and not only the issues with himself on stage he really looked like he was in command i've waited disagree like my friend raise a delight but rage of the american people don't want an attack dog for president and we saw the old al gore attacked are back again and i'm telling you i think people want someone who is likable and they can trust in them and certainly governor bush score very well on those points for gaza to what someone is lost that would use it where

is well i got lost my light which means that the last time he lied outright but you sell befuddled and i began to feel sorry for me can complete the sentence so i would disagree with this you know last man maybe it was sort of was a debate but this time i think that was a clear advantage to go or not if people even exit poll winner not ad though generally i think you'll probably find more stores extremely what it was specific to a shark sharp sharp and what model and stumble ordinance it twitched several grams of those very disconcerting entrenched racetrack how about this whole idea of credibility and trust you heard al gore's closing statement he made a big point of the fact that i'm someone who you can trust to keep his word the thing that connected him do you know why he would do that of course i mean it's all about trust me every candidate they can have all the issues that will lead people don't trust them they don't get the vote not only that the cross and have to like them and al gore was more likeable al gordon mad not produce for his more lovable but was more like george w bush i know i must say i don't think so and i also think that

the governor were scored very very well on the issue of partisanship he wove that thematic throughout the debate that if you want to change the way things work in washington along the way and we'll bleep campaign finance reform question he went right to the fact or what court uses a campaign finance reform question he went right to the fact that we have to change the tone in washington we have to change the partisanship we have to change the bickering and we're going we're doing right now which people out there in america really like and i think that was a very smart movies the magdalena last several weeks he's hit on big government versus the people and he's hit on that on the thematic of partisanship and that changing the tone in washington and i think that's why bush is showing a slight lead admittedly a slight lead in the polls or regret even even act as a democrat sort of felt sorry for bush the people followed him out the military question so bad why would he be a great national leader a world leader in action an actual policy and international policy goes he was the governor of texas he told

us in that sense that sort of stretched back debates as al gore they'll that the day came that very strong about what his experience in an office and he failed to do that before and i think he was much better than i thought it was good in the first debate so that the american public and i thought he was probably to relax in the second debate maybe even over coach i think in this debate a great deal of notice that it took al gore into the debate was almost an hour and twenty minutes before our work at even talk about the positive aspects of the clinton orchestration it took him an hour twenty minutes to talk about the positive things that we shouldn't talk about the last three debates he didn't do that and i think that's where again one of the reasons that that the governor bush did as well as here i can see that al gore did better he certainly did but it didn't have to be much to get better from what was but campaigns are about the stations and in court again and again and the cleric claimed distinctions now see it may look at it as a republican and think that george bush won this debate dr gray correct bad race started that with next event earlier point

that this was the best the three debates almost no question about it there are several reasons one you had two people standing they could express themselves better you had the war and this was a familiar format for me was able to man the audience in the stage of the two that were used as is his frame and his eyes looks better because advantage i knew when the withdrawal mean it was it was the best and well then there's the syllabus the toure studied bush see oh i don't think it seals it all about three weeks ahead of us of tough campaigning i said that the governor bush enjoys a slight apparently a slight lead it's very close anything can happen i think events around the world can decide this but it's very close and i i must say i think governor bush did well enough to win the selection greg stevens recently that their pets you margaret and now we hear from some of our other he's our regulars and ray suarez and with me a presidential historians doris kearns goodwin and michael beschloss

and journalist and author haynes johnson joining them tonight as richard norton smith presidential historian and biographer wil just before it closed jim mentioned that be and gabby a debate commission wants reaction on the floor mats of the debate i know you haven't had a chance to visit the website yet but that's what does a town hall meeting which is fairly modern form of debate show us about these candidates that maybe the other ones though i think it really important i have either reviews unlike those for much of the sixties seemed to me this given amnesty and allowed to watch them moving around were all russia see where it rots and we look at things were especially i thought that this was by foreign wars best performance the impressively close election when they look back at this like that's for each of the law but he was more comfortable more fluid i thought bush was the one who was stiffed by doris is that tests things that are germane to being president honor know how woodrow wilson or herbert hoover would have done it we know the one thing that keeps striking me about these

debates as compared to ones even in the past or forty thirty years ago is that they keep talking as if they're standing out there alone look at the number of times they said my plan this is what i will promise you i will do this i will do that debate in the old days used to talk about their party's what they would do to gather the kennedy talked about the democratic party as a great river that you have to understand its source and it slater say something has been lost i think on both peoples party says if they are in mortal combat with one another and they don't call on the past i think especially for gore he's got a strength it's mystifying to me that he doesn't call on more which is the heritage of the democratic party on all of these issues that everyone's talking about who were the party that put medicare through in the first place within social security that's never mentioned so in some ways i think the part of the guys in the past might have done even better than this because they belonged to something larger than themselves they talked about the country in history and heritage these guys are just up there as individuals as if i'm going to do all these things and nobody's going to quite

believe that regional instant investors i know it you're saying it i think the vice president was somewhat more assertive lot more in command of his facts by the cover of which was in command of his message and you never forget that message other one line he had when he said if this were spending contest i've come in second i think it's not eloquent it's not polished but may very well be powerful was also awful inside baseball tonight and in the annals of campaign history i suspect pass the dingle would bill is unlikely to go down with fifty four forty are fight we might be in the wiki moines might sue nineteen sixty eight you know the other thing you were talking about this venue one of the ideas of these town hall meeting format was the answer the buttes the aggression between the two candidates bob dole for richard once worked in nineteen ninety six have come and loaded for bear in this format had planned to denounce bill clinton for his ethics and somewhere on i just couldn't do it because there he was and all these people close range i just didn't feel i could go through with

it and the result was that he perhaps did not attack as much as he might have al gore was under no such construction tonight i think he sort of went back largely to the outdoor a debate number one much more aggressive than i would've expected and i think he sort of roll the dice tonight i think he said the downside of this approach is that people will find this overly aggressive in the settings they might even say this as someone like field that queasy about as president looking at the body language but i think he also said if i'm going to turn around this campaign this is perhaps my last best chance i've got to make the case against george bush and that's part of the equation out that if i'll have these evenings become an indispensable part of the modern campaign and if they have have a proven their value as we look back over the three and four so this report of the campaign will have to have televised debate and balances john kennedy that for years but whether they have the size that they are with this thing is so interesting to me

tonight i agree with michael but i think we're absolutely well i think it will not like it was in my face he came over to me like as you versus the hillary clinton but i think that it and why it may be that people may respond to that they finally were getting some action here and we're getting some really strong boston strong action back and forth so that it and the question is going to be hungry people watched that went down in an era of those who did adult that small number who are really undecided at this really make a difference i can't have a proven their value for you those one thing it's not even a valued only for tonight i think it's not like a like yogi berra saturday over when it's over to mangle him because it's gonna continue on for the next week the next two weeks is everyone talks about these three debates so they don't really end with a single night even if not everyone is watching no question they've got a value we see them without their armor on and we see them getting better which is a good thing they have to prepare more we see how they can absorb information it's

not the only thing we need to know about them as president i mean have the courage under fire that they see hardly tonight but you see them able to learn from experience you see a lot of qualities that will be necessary to articulate mrs won the ability to communicate in simple language i don't know that either one of them is still able to communicate in the human terms of the planets laney one of their programs to someone else that i'm not sure i'd be able to find that one thing roosevelt would do was to talk in the kind of anecdotal language about a lending your host at the fair for the next or we need more of that in these debates but i think they're incredibly important yeah you know i don't think many of voters tonight or historians tomorrow are likely to confuse either these guys with kennedy nixon but the dynamic i think applies forty years ago the question was whether a challenger untested could hold his own against a knowledgeable hugely skilled vice president of two weeks ago we were asking a question about george bush i don't know what'll happen on election day i think the case

could be made that these four debates and i would emphasize as well the vice presidential debate together have at least gotten bush across the threshold of credibility to the point where he is widely seen as a prospective president michael quigley last month remember in history of a candidate who wins election is has been always the candidates who would seem to have won the debates of george bush's st louis won this debate tonight that will be at least two in a row maybe three in a row that would lead to his election three weeks from now if that his seat not why yes thank you all for joining cnn tonight and now for some final thoughts were back with syndicated columnist mark shields and was to channel calmness cause you go mark pick up on what our colleagues said did it seem to you as if al gore was rolling the dice tonight there was no question al gore was going to leave something in the locker room after after tonight i did get the intensity which i mentioned earlier i think it was president i mean each question was of equal importance of ceded people urgency so i thought it through the differences far

better the head of the video that was his best performance by far but margaret here we are on the eve of the elections virtually all of this one year and without with operating either the sellers not once and they told us what it means to be an american in the year two thousand not once have they asked any sacrifice of us not once as they said this is what america can be this is the kind of a nation we can be tonight to talk about his vision of peace in the future but absent john mccain and left the race in march when i came at the talk about the more noble on was sacrificing the outcome that everybody had something for us and i think that was missing i think that really contributes to what is not been a passionate allege that trouble you call it does i wish or both of them would they get out of the week sometimes offer a vision that the overall rating of the kind that that he that he could do that he could offer in a way they're both of i think maybe respond to the clinton era

where bill clinton's great knowledge of detail is walking eyes and his mastery of those details is something that seems to have been a political success so these guys in following him are supposed to do to demonstrate some more knowledge and would get lost in those details even though it's a as others have said i don't think those will be remembered much all lasting impressions will be ones of leadership and command presence i knew so bold and trying to touch those notes tonight my visit us possible but that the clinton era that bill clinton he did he was one fish but he also had some a vision thing and was an emotional quality to the way he connected with people and you can see that from either of these candidates so i think you're right argh he had bill clinton had of empathy and an ability to project head and i think to feel an immediate empathy it i disagree with the vision i believe that the only single memorable phrase of his presidency is the year of big government is over i i do it i do think in the game is incredibly articulate is not eloquence it wasn't but

clinton had this ability to humanize to talk about government in personal terms of what it meant i don't what it would be and how it would be better if we did these things that i don't get that from either of these fell slightly less was more disciplined returning to his strategy or schemes and i but i really thought the gore and i was close best performance of the three by far and i just thought it was it was a you know there were no knockouts i don't know not downs really i just thought it was not governor bush has done is it just a quick assessment fall her colleagues about these debates how revealing have they been about these two men and they have been less revealing than perhaps more free willy nilly exchanges would've would've allowed but i think they've been revealing i think we did see a war ii at his the way he he has been and other debates against democrats and republicans in that first time that we saw and try to change that part of his character and i saw bush what you saw i think over time is

its capacity to learn and get better and get more confident within each debate but across the series quick thoughts on that mark right that i have that you know that was obviously did better than people thought he would have been a baby's own camp thought it would but i thought tonight he showed a certain until it's certain for listeners are they had been they're in the past that we would talk about cowboy's fierceness an aggressiveness but a joint worship tonight i wasn't just a happy warrior alright we'll have to leave it there we'll see online and again tomorrow evening on the newshour i'm margaret warner thanks for being with us tonight this is intense

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