The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

MR. LEHRER: Good evening. I'm Jim Lehrer in New York.

MS. WARNER: And I'm Margaret Warner in Washington. After the News Summary, France's U.N. ambassador talks about his nation's military mission to Rwanda. Then we take an extended look at the problem of spouse abuse with a Jeff Kaye report and five views on what can be done, and finally essayist Paul Hoffman on the link between mind and body. NEWS SUMMARY

MR. LEHRER: The Brown & Williamson Tobacco Company had its turn before Congress today. Chief Executive Officer Thomas Sandefur told a Senate Committee the company had developed a new, higher nicotine tobacco leaf known as Y-1, but he denied use of the new tobacco had increased the nicotine level in his company's cigarettes. FDA head David Kessler made that charge Tuesday. Sandefur also responded to Kessler's charge that tobacco companies were boosting nicotine content to keep smokers addicted.

THOMAS SANDEFUR, Brown and Williamson Tobacco Corporation: I want to assure this subcommittee that we do not spike our products, nor do we manipulate the nicotine in our cigarettes to keep people hooked as the FDA alleges. In fact, over the last 40 years, the nicotine level --

MR. LEHRER: Attorney General Janet Reno said today the Justice Department was investigating charges concerning the new tobacco as well as tobacco industry claims nicotine is not addictive. Margaret.

MS. WARNER: The Education and Labor Committee today became the first panel on the House side to finish work on a health care reform bill. The Committee voted 26 to 17 for a proposal that includes many of the traditions favored by President Clinton, but it offers more generous benefits and costs more than the President's plan. The committee members also approved a version of the Canadian style single payer plan. Meanwhile, a bipartisan group of moderate Senators from the Finance Committee met today to try to fashion a compromise that will bridge the gap between Democrats and Republicans on that Committee. Their plan tries to achieve mere universal coverage without requiring employers to pay most of the cost. First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton lobbied again today for the President's plan. She spoke to a women's group in Washington.

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON: The only way for all of us to be secure and particularly for those among us who already are vulnerable or are more likely to become vulnerable women and their children to be taken care of is to absolutely commit ourselves to giving health care coverage to every single American. The political system needs to respond. This is an issue that should go beyond partisan politics. This is an issue that the Congress should act on because it is the right thing to do for the American people.

MS. WARNER: A special Pentagon task force of scientists said it cannot identify a single cause for the illnesses afflicting many veterans of the Gulf War. But it found no evidence that chemical or biological agents were responsible. Deputy Secretary of Defense John Deutsch pledged, nonetheless, that research would continue. He also said the government was reclassifying thousands of documents pertaining to the war. Earlier this month, the administration endorsed legislation to research the causes of so- called "Gulf War Syndrome" and to treat veterans complaining of it.

MR. LEHRER: North Korea today proposed starting talks with the United States on July 8th. Representatives of the two countries may meet in New York tomorrow to work out the agenda for the Geneva meeting. Yesterday, President Clinton said the United States would suspend its push for U.N. sanctions after North Korea agreed to freeze its nuclear program. Several hundred French troops arrived in Rwanda today. They are the first of more than 2,000 going there to protect civilians from the civil war. We'll have more on that story right after the News Summary. The Guatemalan government and leftist rebels took a step today toward peace. They agreed to set up the human rights commission to investigate alleged abuses in the Central American country. The agreement was reached with a U.N. mediator in Norway. About 100,000 Guatemalans have died, and another 40,000 have disappeared in the civil war that began 33 years ago.

MS. WARNER: In economic news today, the Commerce Department reported that orders for durable goods jumped .9 of 1 percent last month. Most of the gains were in aircraft and parts. Durable goods are large expensive items designed to last several years. And that's it for the News Summary tonight. Now it's on to sending French troops to Rwanda, domestic violence, and a Paul Hoffman essay. NEWSMAKER - MERCY MISSION

MS. WARNER: First tonight, the French military mission to Rwanda which was approved last night by the United Nations Security Council. France says its purpose is to save civilian lives in the African nation, where between two hundred thousand and half a million people have been killed in murderous civil strife over the past two months. French military units of at least 2,000 soldiers and legionnaires have assembled in neighboring Zaire and Uganda, and a 600-man reconnaissance force entered Rwanda earlier today. We start with some background from Liz Donnelly of Independent Television News.

LIZ DONNELLY, ITN: They may not have got the international support they were seeking but France, whose troops are arriving in Zaire en route for Rwanda, has wasted no time in launching Operation Turquoise, saying it wants to rescue Rwandans in danger. Western diplomats have described this as a high-risk operation that could embroil the United Nations in another bloody civil war, but troops say they're relaxed. This officer said they don't know if there'll be trouble; they were just professionals preparing. But the rebel Rwandan Patriot Front believe the French are on the side of those who perpetrated the massacres, and most relief organizations in Rwanda fear the operation could boomerang, making their job harder. Today, aid workers said there would be a welcome for the French but only from government militias blamed for the massacres.

ALISON CAMPBEL, CARE: [speaking from the Rwandan border] Truckloads full of militia, young guys who've obviously come off the barricades, all crammed onto trucks, waving their machetes and their clubs and singing and banging on the sides of the vehicles with signs saying welcome to the French and thank you. It's -- I mean, they're being liberated as far as they're concerned. And these are the guys that have been perpetrating the killings over the last 10 weeks, and that was a pretty horrifying thing to see.

LIZ DONNELLY: The French troops taking part in Operation Turquoise are flying into the airport in Goma in Eastern Zaire into Bukavu on the Rwandan border 60 miles South. From there, an advance contingent has already crossed into Rwanda, heading for Cyangugu, where thousands of Tutsi refugees are said to be in danger. France says it'll make quick missions into Rwanda not to get drawn into the war.

ALLAIN JUPPE, French Foreign Minister: It isn't military against one of the sites fighting in Rwanda but a humanitarian operation in order to save population, exclusively to save populations. It's very clear in my mind. It's clear also in the text of the U.N. resolution.

REPORTER: But the Rwanda Patriot Front still don't want you there, Mr. Juppe.

ALLAIN JUPPE: We are continuing our efforts to persuade this side.

LIZ DONNELLY: But in Europe, the Rwandan Patriot Front has been trying to persuade the West that the French operation is not going to ease the situation. They point out that the French helped train and equip government forces who share responsibility for the murder of more than 1/2 million people, and they question whether the French mission will genuinely be a humanitarian one.

JAMES RWEGO, Rwandan Patriotic Front: [speaking from Brussels] What we're against is any power, and we have said this to the French several times, that to come in to protect those murderers, you know, because that time and those militia have killed 1/2 million people. I think people should not forget about that, so anyone who comes to interpose himself to go in-between to save such criminals, you know, we would be opposed too.

LIZ DONNELLY: The French are hoping that by rescuing some of the Tutsi refugees who are stranded in hostile territory they'll be able to win the confidence of the predominantly Tutsi Rwandan Patriotic Front, but they'll be prepared in case of attack. In the past 24 hours, the Rwandan Patriotic Front has scaled down their threats to attack the French, saying, instead, they'll wait and judge by what happens. But with such deep distrust, many believe it will be impossible for the French to avoid getting embroiled in the war. The first French troops have already crossed into Rwanda, and by the weekend, more than two and a half thousand will have been dispatched. But despite the French request for more European support, only Italy has said that it might contribute forces and then only if both sides agree.

MS. WARNER: We're now joined by the French Ambassador to the United Nations, Jean-Bernard Merimee. Mr. Merimee, thanks for being with us. You had to overcome a lot of skepticism on the part of other U.N. nations just to get this mission approved, and most other nations aren't willing to go in there with you. Why does France feel it's in its interest to go into Rwanda?

AMB. MERIMEE: Well, as my minister said, France is going to Rwanda purely for humanitarian reasons, to rescue people in danger, to protect the civilian population. And that's about it. We don't want to upset the military balance. We don't want to upset the political balance. We are there just to protect people. I mean, it's a very simple operation, and while I know there are suspicions, that there are doubts, I know that the Patriotic Front is very much opposed to such a move, but it is a fact that people are still in danger and that nobody right now is able to protect them. I mean, the, the UN operation is not yet fully deployed.

MS. WARNER: You're talking about the other UN peacekeepers that are there, the 500?

AMB. MERIMEE: Yes, there are 500. Well, there are not enough. We simply have to face a situation in which people are in danger, and nobody comes to their rescue, so we propose ourselves to do that.

MS. WARNER: Tell me exactly how you're going to go about protecting these civilians. Are you setting up camps for them? Are you going to go in and protect refugee camps already there, are you going to try and go in and protect whole villages? How can a 2000- man French force actually protect them against a 30,000-man Hutu government force that has been doing a lot of this killing?

AMB. MERIMEE: I suppose that when on the ground we shall use the practical means for protecting people. It seems to me that if we are being told that 500 people in church are threatened, well, we shall go there and bring them from church to a protected area. And that's basically what we are going to do. How exactly, what will be the details, of course, I cannot tell you. I mean, that will be up to the force commanding officer to do it.

MS. WARNER: I see. Now, also there's been a little confusion about what your base of operations will be. At first, the understanding was you would pretty much stay in the western part of the country where your forces have gone in today and bring people there, but then I think yesterday at the U.N. you said you'll go anywhere civilians need protecting. Are you limiting yourself to any particular area of the country?

AMB. MERIMEE: Again, I don't know exactly. I think we shall concentrate our action in the part where it is reported most lives, human lives, are at risk. That's basically what we are going to do. I suppose that our aerial deployment will be different from that of the Patriotic Front, so that we'll be able to avoid clashes with them. That's all I can say right now.

MS. WARNER: Now, most American viewers watching this will probably be thinking of our example in Somalia, where, of course, with the best of intentions and strictly humanitarian attentions, American forces got over there and then got embroiled of something of a quagmire. The first thing, of course, that was so difficult was to preserve the image of impartiality. The rebel forces, as you've just said, are already opposed to the French coming in, afraid that you're going to be in on the side of the government. How can you actually persuade the rebel forces that you are completely impartial?

AMB. MERIMEE: We'll see. I hope that will be convinced by our deeds, what we are going to do on the spot. But --

MS. WARNER: Well, for instance, let me ask you this. What if you saw rebel forces moving in on an area held by government forces, would you stay out of that?

AMB. MERIMEE: We certainly won't interfere in the fighting between the Patriotic Front forces and the government forces. Certainly not. It's not a purpose, not the objective of our mission. Again, we will concentrate on rescuing human lives where they are threatened.

MS. WARNER: Of course, though, this genocide -- and I think most people would call it that -- has been a deliberate policy of the government-led forces, i.e., to try to annihilate the Tutsi civilian population. Isn't it possible that the government forces will see you as -- because you're protecting this minority population -- will see you as being in on the side of the rebel forces, in other words, that you're in a no-win situation here, and just by protecting civilians you would be frustrating their own military objectives?

AMB. MERIMEE: We'll see. We don't want to fight. But We have a mission to accomplish. If we are going to protect and to rescue some people and if militia, for instance, are in the way, and if they want to oppose us, we shall use force. That is very clear.

MS. WARNER: And, of course, unlike the other UN peacekeepers, your forces are authorized to use deadly force.

AMB. MERIMEE: Yes.

MS. WARNER: Yes. Completely to protect themselves or the civilians.

AMB. MERIMEE: Absolutely.

MS. WARNER: You have said -- let's talk about your exit strategy, because, of course, that's always of great interest, I think, to, to your voters back home. You've said this is going to be a two- month mission, is that right?

AMB. MERIMEE: Yes.

MS. WARNER: And what's supposed to happen after that?

AMB. MERIMEE: We have good reasons to believe that two months will be sufficient for UNIMER to beef up -- I mean, to be built up so that they can deploy themselves effectively on the ground and start assuming the mission, their mission in Rwanda. No, there are not enough right now. We hope that two months will be sufficient for them to have more contribution, more equipment, and to be able to, again, be deployed in an efficient manner.

MS. WARNER: But hasn't Boutros-Ghali, the secretary general at the UN, said already that he cannot imagine having a force ready to take your place in less than three months?

AMB. MERIMEE: Yes, I know he said that. I know he would like us to stay on for a longer time. On the other hand, we cannot -- I mean, it's a risky operation. It's a costly operation. We shall do our best. We hope that two months will be sufficient.

MS. WARNER: Well, of course, I think this is exactly what happened to the U.S. vis-a-vis Somalia, i.e., the U.S. wanted to get out a lot sooner than the U.N. was ready to take over. Couldn't that happen again here?

AMB. MERIMEE: Well, I hope not. I hope that -- I think it will - - it will go well on the ground. I mean, we have made very clear our objectives. We have made extremely clear that we are ready to use force. We hope that it will deter people to oppose our mission.

MS. WARNER: And if after two months, the U.N. is not ready to take over, as you'd like it to, are you saying you would pull out anyway?

AMB. MERIMEE: Well, that's what my government has said. That's what my prime minister and my minister have said. So for the time being, I cannot tell you any -- much more.

MS. WARNER: And currently, the French voters are very much behind this, I gather?

AMB. MERIMEE: Yes. Well, we -- I mean, the French population was absolutely appalled, I mean, felt a revulsion when saying that the massacres were going on. So the French public opinion is ready to take risks for putting an end to these atrocities.

MS. WARNER: And do you think that support will, will endure even if you suffer some heavy casualties?

AMB. MERIMEE: You know, we had casualties in Bosnia-Herzegovina. We had casualties in Cambodia. We believe that in such an operation there are risks involved, and when we have decided to go, you have to accept also the risks.

MS. WARNER: Well, thank you, Mr. Ambassador. Thanks for being with us.

AMB. MERIMEE: It's a pleasure.

MS. WARNER: Jim.

MR. LEHRER: Still to come on the NewsHour tonight, stopping domestic violence and a Paul Hoffman essay. FOCUS - CALL FOR HELP

MR. LEHRER: Now domestic violence, otherwise known as men beating or otherwise physically abusing women. Last night, the Los Angeles police released the recording of a call for help. It was from O.J. Simpson's ex-wife to a 911 police operator in October. The recording brightened the spotlight on the issue of domestic violence the Simpson case had already ignited.

DISPATCHER: 9-1-1 Emergency --

NICOLE SIMPSON: [October 25, 1993] Could you get someone over here now to 325 Gretna Green. He's back. Please.

DISPATCHER: Okay. What does he look like?

NICOLE SIMPSON: He's O.J. Simpson. I think you know his record. Could you send have somebody over here?

DISPATCHER: Okay. What is he doing there?

NICOLE SIMPSON: [crying] He just drove up again. Could you just send somebody over?

DISPATCHER: Wait a minute. What kind of car is he in?

NICOLE SIMPSON: [crying] He's in a white Bronco, but first of all, he broke the back door down to get in the door.

DISPATCHER: Wait a minute. What's your name?

NICOLE SIMPSON: Nicole Simpson.

DISPATCHER: Okay. Is he the sportscaster or whatever?

NICOLE SIMPSON: Yeah.

DISPATCHER: Okay. Nicole, is he still outdoors, or --

NICOLE SIMPSON: Uh-huh. He's in the backyard.

DISPATCHER: He's in the backyard?

NICOLE SIMPSON: Screaming at my roommate about me and at me.

DISPATCHER: Okay. What is he saying?

NICOLE SIMPSON: Oh, something about some guy I know and hookers and keys and I started this s-- [bleep] -- before and it's all my fault --

DISPATCHER: Um-hum.

NICOLE SIMPSON: -- and it's all my fault, and now what am I going to do, get the police in on this, and the whole thing.

DISPATCHER: Okay.

NICOLE SIMPSON: It's all my fault.

DISPATCHER: Okay. So basically you guys have just been arguing. [man screaming in background at Nicole Simpson's home]

DISPATCHER: Is he inside right now?

NICOLE SIMPSON: Yes. Yes.

MR. LEHRER: Calls like that are common throughout the country. Jeffrey Kaye of public station KCET-Los Angeles reports on the problem in Los Angeles.

MR. KAYE: Los Angeles police detective Bill Ellis represents the new face of law enforcement.

BILL ELLIS, Los Angeles Police Department: When I was a young officer, domestic violence wasn't looked upon as it is today.

BILL ELLIS: [on phone] This is Detective Ellis calling you again. How are you doing? You're feeling kind of sore? Plan on me being there around 1:30, and I'll probably have a member of the Rainbow Service with me that worked your crisis response.

BILL ELLIS: Today officers in our academy, they receive many, many hours of training in the handling of domestic violence cases. In the olden days, the early 70's, I would say that when we would respond to a scene of a family dispute, as it was called then, usually you would separate the parties, and you would advise the parties, and you would go on your way.

MR. KAYE: On this day, Ellis did anything but simply advise the parties and go on his way.

BILL ELLIS: [talking to person at door of house] Hi, this is Laverne from Rainbow.

MR. KAYE: When Ellis arrived at the home of a victim of domestic violence, he was accompanied by a member of Rainbow Services, a non-profit agency that assists battered women. They were there to transport the woman -- she asked that her identity be kept secret - - to the agency's office. There she could fill out papers requesting that a judge order her ex-boyfriend to stay away from her, a man who had repeatedly battered her.

WOMAN: And so then he got mad, and he started beatin' me at my head, and then he was lookin' for somethin' to hit me with, and he started hittin' me with the belt. And then he said, "This doesn't hurt, this isn't hard enough." So he went to my closet and he grabbed a coat hanger and he folded it in half and he started beatin' me with it.

MR. KAYE: The clients of Rainbow Services comprise only a small fraction of the victims of domestic violence. Those involved with the issue offer chilling statistics.

CONNIE McCALL, Executive Director, Rainbow Services: More women are injured by domestic violence than by rape, battery, automobile accidents combined. Over 50 percent of the women admitted to emergency rooms are admitted due to an injury caused by a partner.

LYDIA BODIN, Los Angeles Deputy District Attorney: We're filing a domestic violence homicide in LA County once every nine days. For every one hundred women who are killed in this county, fifty of them are killed by a boyfriend or a husband in a domestic violence incident.

MR. KAYE: Prosecutor Lydia Bodin heads the LA District Attorney's domestic violence unit.

LYDIA BODIN: And then when you get past the homicide question, there's all the things that come before it, the assault, the maiming the raping. I mean, my God, if we heard this kind of thing coming out of a foreign country, that this was occurring to American women and children, we'd send in the United States Marines.

MR. KAYE: While Bodin says the number of domestic violence cases is alarming, she feels the legal system is slowly becoming responsive to the scope of the problem.

LYDIA BODIN: The police, I think, at least in Los Angeles, for the very first time, the LAPD has started a unit called the Major Assault Crimes Unit, that's specifically directed towards domestic violence. That's where you have investigators specifically trained to deal with crimes of domestic violence. Prosecutors now have special units such as the one we have in our office where we deal with domestic violence, where deal with domestic violence, where we vertically prosecute, where we especially help our victims.

MR. KAYE: Tammy Bruce, president of the Los Angeles chapter of the National Organization for Women, welcomes changes, but she feels the legal system still treats the batterer too leniently.

TAMMY BRUCE, National Organization for Women: We have been aided by a system that does not understand the problem. In every case, we can't play the blame game, but these are men who are primarily responsible and have gotten a message from the system that it's okay, you can do this with impunity, there is no repercussion, you will not be arrested, and men then go along feeling as though this is their private system.

LYDIA BODIN: We have some excellent judges who understand this issue and take it seriously and see it for what it is, that the first hit is frequently a prelude to homicide. We have other judges who believe that these cases belong exclusively within the province of family court, which is wrong.

MR. KAYE: Bodin and Bruce say that basic societal attitudes need to change. For example, this week's cover of Time Magazine depicts the story everyone's talking about, but it unintentionally highlights another problem according to Bruce.

TAMMY BRUCE: This week's Time Magazine cover is quite shocking. It's a picture of O.J. Simpson that says American Tragedy. The picture should have been of Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman. Our perspective as a community has to change drastically, and our priorities have to change.

MR. KAYE: According to the executive director of Rainbow Services, society needs to be less accepting of domestic violence.

CONNIE McCALL: You may have heard that idiom rule of thumb. The rule of thumb is part of old English law that says a man can only beat his wife with a stick that's no larger in diameter than the size of his thumb. So this has been an accrued kind of violence. Women were seen as property as well as children, that man's home is his castle. This is a family matter. We don't disturb families. It's your business what goes on in your home. Yet, if these women were assaulted in a bar, on the street, it would become a major crime.

MR. KAYE: But police say increasingly they are looking at spousal abuse as a major crime. Their efforts, however, don't always pay off.

POLICE OFFICER: Because the man in apartment number 27 is beating his wife.

MR. KAYE: On Monday night, West Los Angeles police officers responded to a call from a woman reporting that her neighbor was beating his wife.

WOMAN: It sounded like he was hitting her again. It's not the first time.

MR. KAYE: But when officers questioned the alleged victim, she said nothing happened.

ALLEGED VICTIM: Everything's fine.

POLICE OFFICER: Okay.

ALLEGED VICTIM: There is no problem.

POLICE OFFICER: Is that your boyfriend that was here with you, your husband?

ALLEGED VICTIM: No, he's just a roommate. He's a friend.

POLICE OFFICER: Okay.

FEMALE POLICE OFFICER: Pull up your sleeves. Let me see your arms, make sure you have nothing on them.

ALLEGED VICTIM: Sure, nothing on them.

FEMALE POLICE OFFICER: You step in the room. I just wanted to get your back, make sure there are no bruises or anything.

MR. KAYE: With no evidence of physical abuse and no complaint from any victim, the officers left the scene.

SGT. DOUG ROLLER, Los Angeles Police Department: We had a possible victim that just was saying that everything's fine, and our hands are tied at that point. And it's too bad. If there was something done wrong, she would have been better off mentioning it, because, you know, oftentimes we know these things turn into more serious events.

LYDIA BROWN: It's a highly under reported crime. Many women don't report the hits, the spousal rapes that occur, because they're afraid to do so, because they're afraid if they report it they'll get killed for reporting, because of the justice system in the past to adequately respond to their cries for help.

MR. KAYE: Also, under reported according to police officers, is abuse of men by women.

SGT. DOUG ROLLER: Domestic violence can be against either party, and, you know, we know what the norm is, and it usually it's a stronger man beating up on a woman. But I've been on many calls where it's been the opposite.

MR. KAYE: The other victims of domestic violence are children. Studies have shown that kids raised in violent homes are likely to become the next generation of abusers.

MR. LEHRER: So, now that the Simpson case has dramatically raised the question, what can be done about this problem? We ask it now of Flora Colao, a social worker in New York City, who specializes in family violence. She has worked with the FBI and District Attorney's offices in domestic violence cases, Michael Dow, director of the Battered Women's Justice Center at Pace University in New York State, James Garside, deputy chief in the patrol division of the Nassau County New York Police Department, Dr. Mark Rosenberg, psychiatrist and director of the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control at the federal government's Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta, and Barbara Seaman, chair of the Domestic Violence Committee of the National Council on Women's Health. Chief, is there a police solution to the domestic violence problem?

CHIEF GARSIDE: No, and I think that would be an overly simplistic approach. I think that the police are going to solve this problem. I think you've got to view it very much like the tape said, that there's a multi-faceted approach, different parts of our system ave to come together. They've all got to work optimally, the police have to as well, and then we might see some resolution to the problem, but to think that the police are going to solve this problem is to think that the police would solve, for example, the DWI problem.

MR. LEHRER: You mean, they're not going to stop people drinking, they're not going to stop men beating their wives.

CHIEF GARSIDE: It requires a change in society's attitudes. And as long as people see it as something that's socially approved, it's going to be impossible to ask for the police to singularly stop that kind of behavior.

MR. LEHRER: Ms. Colao, is the socially approved attitude toward this, is it still out there, or is it --

MS. COLAO: Absolutely, it's still out there, and, you know, one of the things that the Simpson case illustrates is that it's out there. People were complaining that they thought he was treated specially because he's a celebrity. He was not. He was treated the way very many battering men are treated with this is a family matter, and yeah, do a little community service and get some counseling of your choice, unfortunately happens all too often not just for celebrities.

MR. LEHRER: Where do you start to change, how do you start to change that attitude?

MS. COLAO: All levels of society, churches, schools, hospitals, every level, every community organization has to start with this is absolutely unacceptable behavior. We're not going to tolerate it. You're not going to get a contract with a major car rental company if you're a celebrity, if you do this, he wouldn't have gotten that contract if he'd smoked a joint. But he got it after he had beaten his wife.

MR. LEHRER: Mr. Dowd, is that the heart of the problem, the society attitude?

MR. DOWD: Of course, it is. I mean, just think -- and we're talking about drunk driving -- there are practically no spots -- I don't think there are any public service spots by our major companies advertising today about domestic violence. Yet, every 10 minutes we hear spots about don't drink and drive, don't use drugs, and why is that? And why is that we have commercials by Hertz and a spokesperson for Hertz, an on-air personality for NBC, who they knew was a wife beater?

MR. LEHRER: Answer your own question. Why?

MR. DOWD: Because it wasn't a serious matter, and we have to deliver the message throughout every level of society. Private citizens, corporate citizens, the courts, the government, we all have to deliver the message to abusers. We're not going to tolerate it anymore. Men have to deliver the message to other men. You will be a pariah among us if you abuse a woman. We're not doing that today, and we have to begin.

MR. LEHRER: Where do you -- where do you begin, Ms. Seaman?

MS. SEAMAN: The place that I would begin may surprise you. Many battered women are afraid to access the police and the courts, and for good reason. Nothing may come of it, and it may incense their batterer and escalate the danger. But all battered women sooner or later keep passing through the health care system. They get their teeth knocked out. They go to the dentist. They frequently go to the emergency room. The women who are at highest risk of being battered who are still living with their batterers are pregnant women, very high rate of battery during pregnancy. They're going to obstetricians all the time, and the place that I would start intervening is with the health care system. Now, something --

MR. LEHRER: Now how do you do that? What -- how do you do that? Explain that.

MS. SEAMAN: It's very sad, because the systems are all in place. In 1985, the blessed Everett Koop --

MR. LEHRER: Who was then the Surgeon General of the United States, C. Everett Koop.

MS. SEAMAN: Such a fine person. He recognized that domestic violence was the leading cause of injuries in women. And he said so. And he proclaimed that the health care system had to stop holding its collective head in the sand and start responding to it. A number of brilliant women doctors did research and found that it was being terribly under reported, so everybody started passing regulations, the surgeon general, the AMA, the state, the state health authorities, and by 1992, JACO, the Joint Commission for the Accreditation of Health Care Organizations, had past regulations saying that emergency rooms had to identify battered women, had to take steps to procure their safety, had to inform them of community resources, and had to compile an evidentiary record.

MR. LEHRER: Is that being done?

MS. SEAMAN: No.

MR. LEHRER: Why? Why not?

MS. SEAMAN: I did a study in New York City last year. Another study was done in the state of California.

MR. LEHRER: Okay. How do we get -- how do we get that done? That's my question. That's what we're talking about. How do you get the hospitals not only in New York but all over the United States, when a woman comes in and appears to be battered or has an injury as the result -- how do you -- how do you get the health care system to do what you want 'em to do?

MS. SEAMAN: Well, it's my belief that most doctors, nurses, and health providers really care about the welfare of their patients, and that it's just a question of education. Somehow the message has not gotten through to them that they have to deal with this in a different way, and that it's critical to saving the women's lives. And, by the way, I personally had the experience where because I had good medical records, I am a survivor of batter, the judge gave me exclusive occupancy of my home and made my husband leave, and she said it was because of the records.

MR. LEHRER: All right. Dr. Rosenberg, you heard what Ms. Seaman has said, and you're familiar, obviously, with this, with her approach to this, that that would at least be a place to begin. Why has it not begun there, and what can be done to get it started there, at least?

DR. ROSENBERG: It is beginning there. Let me mention just a couple of things that are going on, but let me take the beginning point after that back even further.

MR. LEHRER: All right.

DR. ROSENBERG: I think there is a massive effort now to start to train physicians, nurses, health care workers of all sorts in the recognition and treatment and referral of battered women that's very, very important. It is starting. In the crime bill, for example, there's a big violence against women act, $1.8 billion potentially to use a large part of that for training, health care, social service, legal professionals, in the recognition, identification, and treatment of battered women, very important, it is starting.

MR. LEHRER: Now, let me --

DR. ROSENBERG: It'll take a bigger effort.

MR. LEHRER: Sure. Let me ask you a question -- may I interrupt one moment. Under the preferred procedure, if a woman comes into an emergency room of a hospital, and whether or not she -- whether or not she wants it reported to, to Chief Garside, a police officer, it's not her option, in other words, it should be reported automatically if the health professional believes the injuries that are being treated as a result of this kind of thing?

DR. ROSENBERG: No.

MS. SEAMAN: No.

DR. ROSENBERG: I don't think that it necessarily should be reported. What we're talking about is training the personnel to recognize -- that's the first step we need to do -- just to recognize the problem. We have such great ability, as you heard, to deny the problem, to put it aside. The first step is to recognize it. The second is to talk to the person, to provide some services, to provide some referral, some treatment. It is not clear at all that there should be mandatory reporting to law officials. That's something that needs to be looked at. We need to look very clearly at what the consequences of that would be. Would that encourage more women to come in, or would it keep them away?

MR. LEHRER: From the hospital, you mean, from getting medical care?

DR. ROSENBERG: From the hospital, from the physician, from the therapists, from anyone. It's not clear, so I think what we're talking about is very important, is the identification recognition and referral, not the reporting. The reporting question really needs a closer look, but let me take it back.

MR. LEHRER: Okay.

DR. ROSENBERG: You said where do we begin.

MR. LEHRER: Sure.

DR. ROSENBERG: I think this is very, very important. And services, shelters for battered women are very, very important, but it doesn't take it back far enough. What we need to do in addition to that, not to replace it, is to look at how to prevent it in the first place, how you keep women from becoming battered, how you keep children. What can you do when people are very young to keep them from growing up to be batterers? How can you prevent it in the first place? Yes, you need to intervene later, but we need to start thinking about a variety of things.

MR. LEHRER: Let me ask the chief a question. If the way our system is designed, Chief Garside, is that if somebody is thinking about holding up a convenience store, the system, that person's been educated to know, there is risk involved in that, you get caught, there's a good possibility that you're going to go to prison, does not that same rule apply on domestic violence?

CHIEF GARSIDE: I could give you this experience, and I'm a police officer for 22 years, and when I first was trained as an officer, we were pretty much taught to mediate, to get into a dispute, to calm it down, and to get out, because it was not the government's function to intervene in people's family lives, and that philosophy has changed completely.

MR. LEHRER: What is it now?

CHIEF GARSIDE: Well, to the point now where we're making mandatory arrests in certain cases. There's a bill in New York that may be passed in the next couple of days.

MR. LEHRER: Is that right, just passed?

MR. DOWD: This afternoon unanimously in New York State.

MR. LEHRER: Do you think it's related to the Simpson case?

MR. DOWD: It's been in the works for 18 months.

MR. LEHRER: No, but I mean just the fact that it passed. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

MR. DOWD: Unanimously.

MR. LEHRER: That's what I meant. Yeah.

CHIEF GARSIDE: No, we've changed in terms of our perspective just as society has, so we've been responsive to it in that regard, whether -- again, I go back. We're not the complete solution.

MR. LEHRER: Yeah.

CHIEF GARSIDE: But we've changed our perspective. Some of the points that are made are very, are very engaging, because at some point there has to be some attempt to try to break the cycle. For example, it might be a doctor who sits down with a victim and gives them a little sense of what's going on in their life because they're just really not capable of handling it. We talk about the battered spouse syndrome. It might be the police officer who does that. It might be Flora. It might be the social workers who do it, but very often, what it takes is someone to kind of get in and --

MR. LEHRER: Stop it.

CHIEF GARSIDE: -- stop it. What we saw in that, in that videotape, where the officers really didn't have a good chance to intervene, maybe they could have come back on another night. Maybe someone else from, you know, the social service department, could, could contact that woman. Maybe we can break into that cycle. As far as intervening early on, I think we've got to get to educating people, just like we educate them about not smoking.

MR. LEHRER: Yes.

MR. DOWD: Jim, you know, I think we also have to be thinking about intervening before it gets to the police department. I mean, one of the appalling lacks of services for, for battered women in the United States is legal services. Often, whether they come out of a mansion or a project, they come without any money by virtue of the nature of that relationship, and all too often in some places, a woman who is poor has to wait two years to even get a lawyer to handle her divorce, and she's trapped, connected to this man for that time, because we don't provide legal services. We're not willing to spend the money to train lawyers. Lawyers aren't willing to give the time to do pro bono work.

MR. LEHRER: Where in the process of what we -- all the things that we have been talking about, where is the legal -- that kind of help needed the most, after the first battering, after -- when a wife wants to actually leave the husband or wants to prefer charges, where?

MR. DOWD: When a woman --

MS. COLAO: When she comes into the system, when she needs -- you know, because there are some women who initially want to try to work it out and stay together but also need legal advice to figure out how to do that and how to compel treatment. There are some women who know after the first time that they want out and need legal advice. There are some women who are concerned about the well being of their children and need legal advice in terms of dealing with custody issues, or at any place that she comes into the system, she might need legal advice.

MR. DOWD: This afternoon I talked to a woman desperately looking, and this is a conversation that happens in my office ten to fifteen times a week, a woman desperately needing a lawyer to represent her in a divorce or family court, nobody will represent her. They want five thousand, ten thousand dollars in advance. It's appalling.

MR. LEHRER: What about, Ms. Seaman, what about if you're talking about going back another step, who deals with the -- the potential beater, in other words, the man? How does the message get over to you? You had talked earlier, Mr. Dowd, about -- should be a pariah, become a pariah among men. How do you get to the people? How do you get to the men in this?

MS. SEAMAN: Before I answer this, may I say that I completely agree with the doctor, and I didn't mean to give the impression before that there should be mandatory reporting. Complying an evidentiary record is a different matter. That's to use if and when the woman decides that she wants to go to court, but no, it would - -

MR. LEHRER: I had moved that. It wasn't Dr. Rosenberg. I had moved it to the police thing. It wasn't --

MS. SEAMAN: Dr. Rosenberg mentioned the money and the training. It could be very cheap just putting the question on every intake form. Did somebody hurt you -- would identify scores of battered women every day.

MR. LEHRER: If you go back to a point that I made sometime ago, that the way you deter people from holding up convenience stores is, is through some kind of system, they're going to get, they're going to get whopped if they get caught.

DR. ROSENBERG: That's not the only way. That's not the only way you deter people from robbing stores. You start with a kid probably before he's born, and you teach the parents how you deal with stress. You teach the parents not to beat that kid because we know that it's more likely that a kid who's beaten, who's abused as a child is more likely to break the law, is more likely to commit violence later on. You start very much earlier between the ages of one and three. There's lots of things --

MR. LEHRER: How do you do that?

DR. ROSENBERG: That kid is learning moral development.

MS. COLAO: You start on every aspect. I mean, every church, synagogue, temple, every religious institution, every community institution should be out there this weekend talking about --

MR. LEHRER: Using this opportunity, you mean?

MS. COLAO: Using this opportunity to say this is not acceptable, and if it's happening in your home, here's where it's help -- there is help available, and if there is not help available, then let's find a solution together as a community.

MS. SEAMAN: One of the problems is that batterers tend to be very charming men, and one of the reasons why it's difficult for women to leave is that there's a cycle, and the batterer swears it'll never happen again. He will do anything for her, even paint her toenails, and most women take a while before they begin to not believe him anymore. This is quite frustrating to the people who are trying to help her leave.

MR. LEHRER: Let's take it from, from the reality of the O.J. -- we're talking about this tonight on this program, and we're not the first ones to have done this -- as the O.J. Simpson case -- but because of the O.J. Simpson -- it's very unlikely that the MacNeil- Lehrer NewsHour would be devoting this time to this issue tonight. Have you in your police department been devoting any extra time to this question in your discussions and whatever since the O.J. Simpson case came up?

CHIEF GARSIDE: Not specifically because of the O.J. Simpson case. I think we've been looking at the domestic violence issue pretty heavily over, I would say, the last 11 years particularly when we changed our policy back in 1983.

MR. LEHRER: Let me ask it a different way. Do you think the rank and file cop working for your department tonight called to a domestic violence situation is going to handle it even, even unconsciously a little different because of this?

CHIEF GARSIDE: I would hope so, and I would think that that's a good part of the media getting out the message.

MR. LEHRER: Do you agree that something could change?

MS. COLAO: I agree, but I am reminded of one of the previous times I was on your show was after the Lisa Steinberg tragedy. And that did result in a number of policy changes in regard to children in domestic violence households but unfortunately not all of them have been enforced. And my hope from the Simpson case is that now more things will be enforced and looked at at a greater level.

MR. LEHRER: Dr. Rosenberg, from the overview, the national view, what, what should happen that can be done and an overview way as a result of the attention that has been brought to bear on this terrible issue?

DR. ROSENBERG: I think there are a number of things we need to do, Jim. First is we need to take it seriously. That means to focus on the problem and start to get better accounting of how often it occurs, where, when, under what circumstances. We need better information about what works to prevent it, what's effective, what are the causes. We need to support those services that are already in place and we need to turn to prevention. We don't yet understand how to really turn it around, but, again, there are cycles, there are places in the cycle. We can break into it. I think the most deserving thing about the O.J. Simpson case is that many people are asking the question: Are we condemning someone who's still innocent until he's proven guilty? I think people don't realize that he was guilty. He was guilty of battering. He went before a court. He went before a judge. He was found guilty. The police were called eight, nine, ten, or eleven times, again and again and again, and we can still ask the question: Is he innocent? We have an incredible ability to deny the problem, but we do need to take it more seriously.

MR. LEHRER: Mr. Dowd.

MR. DOWD: I don't really disagree, but I would say that the greater tragedy is that if we make progress, that our passing of a milestone is marked by another martyr, and we have far too many martyrs, too many dead women already, and it shouldn't have to be the thing that provokes us to action.

MR. LEHRER: What in your specific case -- running the operation that you run -- how has the Simpson case affected your daily operation?

MR. DOWD: We're being asked to talk about the subject of training for lawyers, training for prosecutors, which we're doing this summer in August, and that alone -- the request for information and discussion about the subject clearly is we hope is a prelude to action, because talk is good, but it must be followed by action, and I think that's what we're all about here.

MS. COLAO: And it's important to note while your show is airing, a woman is beaten every 15 seconds. Two hundred and forty households in our country there's someone being beaten, and there are children in those households, and there are women who are hurt, some of whom will come to the attention of authorities and some of whom won't. It's a systemic problem in society, and all levels of society have to deal with it.

MS. SEAMAN: It may be much worse.

DR. ROSENBERG: I think --

MR. LEHRER: Yes.

DR. ROSENBERG: I think people within the system now are joining the people who have been struggling outside the system for a very long time, and I think coming together there's a real chance to make a difference. I think that there is a note of optimism. I think there is going to be a change. It needs to happen.

CHIEF GARSIDE: I think we're moving toward social disapproval, which is what we need to do.

MR. LEHRER: That comes first before all the others.

CHIEF GARSIDE: Absolutely. How did we stop people from smoking? It became socially unacceptable.

MR. DOWD: -- address the lesson from drunk driving, and the way we have changed attitudes in 10 years.

MR. LEHRER: All right. We have to go. We'll leave it there. Thank you all five very much. ESSAY - MIND OVER MATTER

MR. LEHRER: Finally tonight, essayist Paul Hoffman, editor of "Discover Magazine," on the relationship between how we think and how we feel.

PAUL HOFFMAN: Richard Nixon was the "comeback kid." He weathered many uncommon setbacks that would have defeated other people. But those who knew him best say the one trauma he could never put behind him was the loss of his wife, Pat. Less than a year after her death, the seemingly immortal Nixon also died. Poets and writers understand the connection between grief and death. There's the expression "died of a broken heart." Ophelia goes mad and drowns herself because Hamlet won't return her love. Characters in novels routinely exhibit physical manifestations of their mental anguish. Wolf Larsen, the cruel captain in Jack London's Sea Wolf commands with an iron fist and a stone heart but pays the price with migraines that blind and eventually kill 'em. Dr. Frankenstein falls ill after unleashing his horrific monster. Our own lives may not be as morally bankrupt as Larsen's or Frankenstein's. Or we've all wondered whether our own mental states could somehow make us ill. Woody Allen played on this fear in the movie "Manhattan." "I can't express anger," he said. "That's one of the problems I have. I grow a tumor instead." Popular self-help books have reflected the flip side of this view, that our mental states can cure us. [Books Shown on Screen: Betting on Yourself by Dr. Robert Anthony; Feeling Good, the New Mood Therapy by David D. Burns, M.D.; You Can Heal Your Life by L. Hay; Quantum Healing, Exploring the Frontiers of Mind/Body Medicine by Deepak Chopra, M.D.; I'm OK-You're OK by Thomas A. Harris, M.D.; I Can Cope; Love, Medicine & Miracles] Focus your thoughts, these books urge, and the tumors will shrink away. Most physicians and scientists are not as confident of such a strong link between mind and body. Indeed, only 20 years ago, researchers who pursued this link were generally dismissed as crackpots. But in 1982, Robert Ader and Nicholas Cohen stunned the medical community with experiments at a strain of mice that succumb to disease because of a faulty immune system. The mice were fed an artificially flavored drink, along with a drug that corrected their immunity. Eventually, after the mice had come to associate the drink with what the drug did to them, they were given the drink alone. Sure enough, these now drug-free mice still altered their immunity, adding precious days to their little lives. The Ader and Cohen experiment was a clear demonstration of the placebo effect, that patients can improve when given inert substances that they believe to be medicine. Today, mainstream medical research includes a new breed of scientist, the psychoneuroimmunologist, who studies what goes on in our head affects the functioning of our immune system. This past year, two researchers caused a stir when they started to uncover the hardware by which mind and body communicate. George Murphy and Richard Granstein found that nerve cells in the skin which, of course, are connected to the brain, produce a chemical that can suppress the skin's immune cells. In other words, the brain may control the amount of a chemical and thereby regulate the skin's immune activity. This finding may explain anecdotal stories of psoriasis flaring up during stress or of warts melting away at the prospect of the surgeon's knife. Mainstream medicine is still loathe to overplay the connection between mind and body. Doctors fear that patients may abandon a tried and true treatment in favor of some discipline positive thinking of dubious therapeutic value. Besides, even well conducted studies in this area are often difficult to interpret. For example, a landmark study at Stanford found that women who were being treated for metastatic breast cancer lived strikingly longer if they joined support groups. As impressive as this result is, the extended life span may not be due to the women in group therapy handling the stress of the disease any better, rather, the support of a group may make it easier to stick to a difficult regimen of diet, exercise, and medication. Psychoneuroimmunologists are rushing to uncover the complex role our moods play in our ability to avoid disease and fight it once we have it. Physicians look forward to the day when they can do more than repeat Bobby McFaren's platitudinous advice: "Don't worry. Be happy." I'm Paul Hoffman. RECAP

MR. LEHRER: Again, the major story of this Thursday, a top cigarette executive denied tobacco companies were boosting nicotine content to keep smokers addicted. That charge was made Tuesday by the head of the Food & Drug Administration, and the first contingent of French troops arrived in the African nation of Rwanda. Good night, Margaret.

MS. WARNER: Good night, Jim. That's it for the NewsHour tonight. We'll see you tomorrow evening. I'm Margaret Warner. Good night.