The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

MR. LEHRER: Good evening from San Diego. I'm Jim Lehrer. On the NewsHour tonight, full coverage of the Republican convention, a conversation with former President Bush, the Kemp selection as seen by three prominent Republicans and some Republican delegates, a David Gergen dialogue with GOP veteran Stuart Spencer about two past selections, the importance of the vice presidential choice as seen by Michael Beschloss, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Haynes Johnson, and William Kristol, plus with their analysis, Mark Shields and Paul Gigot. At the end of the program we'll have the other news of this Monday. OPENING GAVEL 1996

MR. LEHRER: The 1996 Republican National Convention opened today in San Diego. Nineteen hundred and ninety delegates from around the nation gathered here to officially nominate Bob Dole and Jack Kemp as their candidates for president and vice president. The convention was gaveled to order this morning by Party Chairman Haley Barbour.

HALEY BARBOUR, Chairman, Republican National Committee: We are here in the appointed place, and we're here at the appointed time, so it is my privilege to proclaim the 1996 Republican National Convention in session and to call it to order. [applause]

MR. LEHRER: The first major order of business was the adoption of the party platform, including the plank on abortion fought over by the Platform Committee last week. Congressman Henry Hyde of Illinois, who chairs the House Judiciary Committee, was also chairman of the Republican Platform Committee.

REP. HENRY HYDE, Platform Chairman, Republican Party: If you want a rebirth of self-government, limited but efficient government, this is your charter. And if you want to return character and conscience to the White House, if you want Bob Dole in the White House, we have this platform. It proclaims us the party of hope, of opportunity, and of the common good. It calls us the party of the open door. So we say come on in, America, this platform is for you.

MR. LEHRER: Pat Buchanan finally did today what he had declined to do before. He endorsed the Dole-Kemp ticket. He did so in a written statement. Buchanan finished far second to Dole in the primaries, but he had refused to concede defeat. He said in his statement today that that decision to wait was vindicated by the resulting influence he exercised over the abortion and affirmative action planks in the party platform. In a speech last night to his delegates and other supporters, he urged them to work for the defeat of Bill Clinton in November.

PAT BUCHANAN, Former Republican Presidential Candidate: Let us at least for the next 10 weeks, nobles and knights and even peasants with pitch forks, suspend our battles with one another and join together in a common cause to defeat Bill Clinton and Prince Albert.

MR. LEHRER: Bob Dole talked in San Diego today about his economic plan. He did so to factory workers at Solar Turbines, Incorporated. He said his proposal to cut income taxes by 15 percent, capital gains by half, would still allow him to balance the budget in six years.

SEN. BOB DOLE, Republican Presidential Candidate: Because we want change. We want more money in your paycheck, and we'll figure out a way to downsize the government a little bit, and you'll never miss it. You'll never miss it. We'll cut out a few departments and cut back on some other programs that have been wasteful and give the money back to the people who are out there working every day, trying to make it work, as you're doing here in Solar. That's what it's all about in America, and that's what this campaign is going to be about.

MR. LEHRER: Dole also praised Jack Kemp as his choice for a running mate. He said the former cabinet secretary, congressman, and pro-football quarterback had the horsepower to electrify and energize their campaign. We'll have more on that Kemp selection later in the program. And that's it for the convention news of the day. Now it's on to former President Bush, the Kemp and other vice presidential selections, and Shields & Gigot. CONVERSATION - CONVENTION 96

MR. LEHRER: Former President George Bush is first tonight. He came to San Diego this morning in preparation for his appearance before the convention this evening. I spoke with him a short time ago at his hotel.

MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, welcome. The big news of this convention is the selection of Jack Kemp. What do you think of that choice?

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: I've been out in British Columbia, out of touch, didn't even see it on the television till Jack, himself, called me, didn't know that until Jack called me the day that he was selected, a very generous, friendly call. But since I've gotten here, I must say this place is electrified by this selection. It is a wonderful thing, and I think--I think Sen. Dole is tapped into something here that could be very, very important in his winning this election.

MR. LEHRER: The popular myth, Mr. President, is that Jack Kemp drove you nuts when he was your housing secretary, is that true?

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: You know, he's talked about that a little bit, but he was secretary of housing and he served in it for four years, and he had an outreach that was unparalleled. And if I hadn't had full confidence in him, he wouldn't have stayed there for four years. So--but there are times--I mean, Jack's a man of his own opinions. But he also--he's a team player in the sense that he understands the importance of that for--I loved it when he said Dole would be the quarterback and he would be the blocker.

MR. LEHRER: The blocker.

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: That's quite a thing. And it's very important that it worked that way. The vice-president cannot and won't be and will not be, you know, kind of staking out the course for the President. It doesn't work that way. But I thought it was a wonderful choice now. I'm not sure I would have said that in the beginning, but I think it's been so well received and I have this genuine affection for Joanne and Jack Kemp. He called me up to talk about it, and I must say, Barbara and I were both very, very pleased.

MR. LEHRER: But it is a real surprise. He wasn't even on any of the short lists or nobody discussed it because of the problems he'd had with Dole, the problems he'd had--not necessarily with you personally, but-- PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: I don't think he ever had any with me personally.

MR. LEHRER: Yeah.

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: But I think he--I think he, you know, he disagreed on some issues, and, and one would read about that. But I, I am convinced that Jack Kemp is a good selection, and I say it because of the energy that you feel at this convention and because of the way that almost universal--universally positive way it's been received. But, you know, we all learn too. I mean, everybody learns.

MR. LEHRER: Well, on the issues, he is a big supply sider and of course, now, the new Dole economic plan is a--basically a supply side plan. This was something, of course, you called voodoo economics at one time. How does that--

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: Yeah, but Jack and I worked very well together. He knew my views, and he knew what he was getting in for, and yet, I don't think I could have had a better secretary of HUD than Jack Kemp. The program that Dole has announced calls for tax cuts, and I expect we're going to see budget cuts too, which is where I came down, controlling the growth of spending was essential. And so I think, I think all that'll work out. I mean, I remember when Ronald Reagan--I went through that same thing with Ronald Reagan--said, well you got all these big differences, but it didn't affect our winning the election. And I don't think--I think people will point to the differences. But they ought to be looking at the vast similarities too, the things that bring these people together.

MR. LEHRER: You know, this taxes business. At least, according to the polls thus far, it has not given Dole any kind of bounce, and one of the theories on this--let me run this by you, Mr. President--that people--that people just don't believe--politicians anymore, when they talk about taxes. Part of it is Bill Clinton said he was going to cut taxes, he didn't do it, he goes back to your famous remark about "no new taxes," and then there were some new taxes, and that people just don't have--don't believe it.

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: What they haven't seen since Eisenhower is a Republican President and a Republican Congress. If I'd have had a Republican Congress, I believe I wouldn't have had to do anything in the way of a compromise to get the spending cuts I wanted. Part of the 1990 budget deficit package, people forget it, was the first real constraints on the Congress for spending. But if I'd have had a Republican Congress, we could have done it out of the spending cut side. And that's what I think Bob Dole and Jack Kemp will have when he wins the election. And I think that then you can cut the taxes, provided you have, you know, have some offsets on the spending side. And he also has something in there I fought very hard for, agreed with Jack Kemp on, agreed with Bob Dole on, and that was cutting the capital gains tax because I think that will stimulate economic growth. And we had it almost done, Jim, until it was, it was singlehandedly defeated by George Mitchell, a very able parliamentarian on the other side, and hammered that agreement until, until we didn't have one anymore.

MR. LEHRER: So do you regret ever using that term "voodoo economics?" It's used in every story that's been written since then.

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: Yeah. I try to blame Pete Tealy, who used to work for me because it's better to blame the other guy if you possibly can at this stage in life, but, no, I--you know--I regret saying, "Read my lips." But what I like is this new ticket that's come together based on economic growth, based on constraining the growth of federal spending, and then there's a whole wide array of other issues where there's totalharmony. So I think that's good.

MR. LEHRER: Okay. Everybody says this convention here in San Diego really doesn't mean anything. And yet the conventional wisdom is that the seeds that led to your defeat, 1992, were cast at the convention at Houston. Do you buy that?

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: Well, I don't like to blame somebody else for my own shortcomings, but I know that we came out of the convention 10 points ahead of where we went into it. But what happened, you go back and look at the numbers--we all live and die by these polls--but I came out 10 points ahead of where I went into Houston with in the polling. And then were a lot of analysis, a lot of people telling others what they had seen, and suddenly that-- was a puff of smoke and that 10 points vanished. So I don't know. I don't think much about that anymore. I don't worry about it.

MR. LEHRER: Do you--

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: Let history decide my shortcomings and my strengths.

MR. LEHRER: But there are some parallels from 92 to 96. So do you feel that you placated Pat Buchanan too much, the man you defeated? You defeated him worse than Bob Dole did.

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: I think in retrospect, I probably did. I think this was handled very well here, better than we did it in 1992, far better. And Buchanan was the only candidate against me then, where there's a whole array of other candidates this year, with the White House not being occupied by a Republican. So there were big differences, but, umm, I guess I'd have to say that the conventional wisdom is so overwhelmingly negative about Houston, the Houston convention, that I'd have to say, well, we should have done something different.

MR. LEHRER: Buchanan said last night that the present Republican Party, he said, and I have the direct quote here: "Right before your very eyes, this is becoming the Buchanan Party."

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: Yeah. Well, I didn't hear that. I've been fishing in British Columbia, as I've told you, and very happily. So, Jim, look, you're not going to believe this but I don't--

MR. LEHRER: Is he right? Is he right?

MR. LEHRER: Yeah.

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: But, no, he's not right. I mean, if there are some things that he agrees with the Republican Party about, or the Republican convention about, the Republican platform idea about, fine. But he didn't win. Bob Dole survived all the rounds and was on his feet at the end. And so, you know, maybe he's--Pat has to say those things, but, no, I don't agree with that.

MR. LEHRER: Does it matter if the platform--

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: Big differences with him on trade, for example, differences that Dole and Kemp have with him too, and other issues too. But there's no point worrying about it for me anymore because I forgot to tell you the only politics, other than seeing Dole and Kemp elected that interest me, has to do with the Bush voice. And the minute, if I said something that, well, Buchanan was all crazy about this, some reporter might listen to your program, then go rushing down, your father says this, what do you think, and try to get a little division going, so why do it?

MR. LEHRER: Sure. No. I understand, but there's a platform in the Republican Party that was passed awhile ago.

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: Yeah.

MR. LEHRER: In fact, you and I were sitting in a room just now and watched its being voted on.

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: Anointed. Yeah.

MR. LEHRER: Anointed. And it's got all kinds of things in it. Does it matter?

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: I don't think it matters. I couldn't tell you if you asked me to give you 10 planks out of the platform in 92, I couldn't do it. If you gave a quiz to these delegates, some of whom have attended many--platform--any conventions--and said, hey, give me the heart of the platform back in 1992, 1988, I don't think they could do it. These things bring people together. The differences are aired, and then the candidate for President will go on and run his race the way he feels it ought to be run. And the vice-president will be supporting him. So I'm happy that this one seems to have found a harmonious conclusion. I think that's good, so you don't have a lot of floor fights and divisiveness, and I salute those who work that magic, but I don't--in all honesty, I don't think it matters all that much.

MR. LEHRER: But as a man who's devoted most of your adult life and twice that of your energy into Republican politics, how would you characterize what the Republican Party is and what it stands for now? Who are these folks who are here? Who are the people who- -

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: Well, that'll emerge as you listen to the candidates. What--the focus has got to be on Senator Dole and on Secretary Jack Kemp. And it will be. And I'll be adding my little, little nuance tonight about the importance of leadership and duty and honor and country, character, all the things I feel strongly about, and somebody else will come on and talk about his or her view of the party. Susan Molinari, a wonderful choice, will give a good speech, I'm sure, and then at the end of the week, people will say this is the heartbeat of the party. It's not going to be analyzing platform plank after platform plank. It's going to be a general impression you get of the new leadership of this party. So it'll emerge as a sound, sensible, conservative party, a party that's not isolationist, a party that's not protectionist, a party that does care about people, a party that can do a better job of the economy, I mean, the economic growth in this country has been anemic. I left Clinton an economy growing twice as fast as it's grown in the last four years. But at the time I was seen as the guy that was out of touch.

MR. LEHRER: Yeah.

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: So you know, I may sound a little defensive here, but, but this is the way it's going to emerge, not by point by point analysis of the platform that few people will read.

MR. LEHRER: Sen. Warren Rudman, former Senator from New Hampshire, was on our program recently, and he expressed a concern about the fact that there were so many activists, so many leaders now in the Republican Party, who were doing things on a religious basis, whether it was abortion, or whatever, and he was concerned about it. And he said people who want religion in politics, look what's happened in Belfast, look at what's happened in Beirut, and other places. Do you share that concern?

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: Not about the Republican Party, nor do I share the concern about activist churches that are highly engaged in the Democratic Party. I used to campaign in Texas, and a lot of the campaigning in Texas, as you well remember, was done in minority churches all across Texas. And they're all unanimously for the opposition. I'd go there, show the flag anyway. You don't hear much about that. You do hear more about the, the conservative Christian Coalition. But, uh, I don't worry about it. I don't see anything dramatically wrong with somebody trying to get out there and shape events. And I think--I think the liberal side just loves to flail away at a Christian Coalition. When you look at the values, you look at what these people believe, strong families, you know, sound economy, I don't see how people can argue the point too much. Now, are there some extremists in this, you know, in our midst? Sure. And are there plenty in the Democratic side? Absolutely.

MR. LEHRER: Finally, just on personal terms, Mr. President, are you comfortable coming to this convention?

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: Yeah. I didn't particularly want to come because, Jim, look, I've shifted gears in my life. And I, as I mentioned to you, the pride I have in the fact that two sons of mine got into politics after what was a very unpleasant year for me and for my family in 1992 knows no bounds. It's a wonderful thing. And that's what really interests me. Then when my friend, Bob Dole, was nominated, or will be nominated, but won, then I was saying to myself, hey, listen, do whatever he wants you to do, work your heart out because I believe he'll be a great President. I believe there will be a restoration of honor and respect for this country around the world, and, and so--but other than that, I'm not--you know, I got here an hour ago and I'm going to leave in six hours. I'm here seven hours. And it's not to, you know, spoil sport or not that I don't want to see friends, but I'm yesterday. I'm happily yesterday, and my sons are tomorrow. And Bob Dole and Jack Kemp are tomorrow. So why should I be hovering around, giving opinions to everybody? I mean, I had a shot at it. I did my best, tried my hardest, and I don't--I don't--I just don't feel comfortable kind of always wanting to write an op-ed piece or to shape events or--I'm too happy and too proud of my boys and too blessed with Barbara, and we're trying to be--so I help others, but, you know, I don't need the day to day politics anymore.

MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, thank you very much.

PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: Good to be with you. FOCUS - CONVENTION 96 - NUMBER 2

MR. LEHRER: Still to come on the NewsHour tonight, Kemp and other vice-presidential choices through history and Shields & Gigot. Margaret Warner begins our Kemp coverage.

MS. WARNER: The first sight the delegates here in San Diego had of Bob Dole's vice-presidential choice came yesterday. Jack Kemp and his wife, Joanne, joined the Doles for a rally on the waterfront near the convention center.

JACK KEMP, Vice Presidential Candidate: [Yesterday] I think you know that I didn't ask for the honor of being Bob Dole's running mate. I didn't pursue it. I didn't expect it. And I really admire all of the other great men and women that Bob Dole had to consider in our party. But I'll admit when Bob asked me to run on his ticket I said yes faster than the Democrats can raise taxes. There's been some kibbutizing and criticism of our plans to both balance the budget and give long overdue tax relief to the families and workers of America. The President has said he's unalterably opposed. His advisers have said it can't be done. They don't know Bob Dole and they don't know Jack Kemp either. [applause] We're the pro-growth Republican Congress, balancing the budget while cutting taxes is a manner of presidential will. If you have it, you can do it. Bob Dole has the will. Bob Dole will do it. [cheers] I am particularly excited that an even bolder proposal with a down payment of a tax cut is a down payment on real reform for the first time on a tax code that is hopelessly flawed, unambiguously at fault with the American dream, and Bob Dole's vision is to start with a blank slate, to create a fair, flatter, simpler tax code to carry us into the 21st century to unimagined prosperity and make sure it's pro-family, pro-growth. It is time to release the great potential of human freedom and the American people and that's what Bob Dole will do for each and every one of you and our people in this country. [applause] Here's what a Bob Dole White House will mean to you and your family--more money in your pocket and your savings account, more jobs in your community, more hope for those who've been left behind, and more opportunity for people across this country, from the barrio of California and to the ghetto in New York, to this country from Russell, Kansas, Buffalo, New York, here in San Diego, we're going to create a zone of opportunity from sea to shining sea. That's what Bob Dole has in store for the American family. Ladies and gentlemen, we want a net of welfare and safety under which people should not be allowed to fall. Well, we're going to work on building a ladder of opportunity upon which every American can climb. That's what it means to be a Bob Dole Republican.

MS. WARNER: Now for three views on what Jack Kemp brings to the Republican ticket. They come from Rep. Nancy Johnson of Connecticut, who served with Kemp in the House, Pat Robertson, president and founder of the Christian Coalition, who ran against Kemp for the Republican presidential nomination in 1988, and Vin Weber, a former congressman who co-founded the public policy group Empower America with Kemp. He's now a co-chairman of the Dole campaign. Welcome, all of you. Mr. Weber, Bob Dole said he wanted a ten in choosing a vice-presidential running mate. Kemp's a 10?

VIN WEBER, Co-Chair, Dole-Kemp Campaign: At least a 10.

MS. WARNER: I mean, why?

MR. WEBER: I honestly I think I've asked some of my Democrat friends with longer memories if they can remember a convention where the vice-presidential choice had such a powerful impact in either party in any of our lifetimes, and all of them have told me no, with the possible exception of Hubert Humphrey helping out Lyndon Johnson, who was going to win anyway. But Jack Kemp first of all is in line with the conservative economic and social thinking of the Republican Party. But he also has sort of a boundless optimism and energy about him that is really characteristic maybe of a Humphrey on the Democrat side, or at least in terms of the optimism of a Reagan of many years ago, and the Republican Party wants that very badly, and he's able to reach out into communities where the Republican Party ought to be competitive but just hasn't been for a long time, whether it's laboring people, poor people, people of color, and it's just energized this party more than any of us would have imagined. I'm a great friend of his. I'm glad that he's on the ticket, but I never would have predicted that it would have been such a positive event to put him on as vice-president.

MS. WARNER: Congresswoman, how do social moderates in a party like yourself view Jack Kemp?

REP. NANCY JOHNSON, [R] Connecticut: I like Jack Kemp. First of all, he's the first Republican that put cities on the Republican agenda. He loves cities. He understands that if America lets her cities rot at the core, America will go down. He understands cities. He understands the people who live in them. He understands people of all races, people who work hard, and he's always spoken to them as equals and for their rights. Jack Kemp is not only about opportunity in America, he's also about equality, and justice. And lastly, he's enthusiastic. He loves politics, and he loves government, and he firmly believes, as I do, that good government creates a society of opportunity, equality, and justice.

MS. WARNER: Mr. Robertson, how do social conservatives and religious conservatives regard him?

PAT ROBERTSON, Christian Coalition: Well, we had a leading yesterday of some 500 of the delegates who are with the Christian Coalition, and we had a survey, and the unanimous with two or three exceptions, opinion, is that they're extremely excited about this choice. It seems that this energized people from every spectrum in the Republican Party, and I'm astounded. I agree with Vin. He's bumped 8 percent. He said he wanted 8 points in the polls overnight is extraordinary. It just never has happened before in our history.

MS. WARNER: Now there was a story in "Newsweek" Magazine this morning that said you had actually sought assurances from the Dole campaign that Kemp wasn't on the list, is that true?

MR. ROBERTSON: That's not true. I've never discussed Kemp. Nobody ever thought he would be a player. I've talked to Sen. Dole about a number of choices, and I thought there were three or four that they were zeroing in on, and Kemp was never mentioned, so this, you talk about a Hail Mary pass, he pulled one, and I think the American people wanted a President who could take bold, decisive action, and that's what that's done for Dole. It says this man will take chances, he'll get out of the box, and do something, and it's quite unorthodox, in my opinion.

MS. WARNER: How do you explain, though, that when Jack Kemp's so out of step in a way with the platform certainly, affirmative action, on immigration, on trade, that he still is energizing the base, the delegate base here?

REP. NANCY JOHNSON: See, that's what I like about it. What Dole is saying is I'm not only going to govern, I'm going to govern with a vital discussion. I'm going to have different points of view in there. I like--I agree with Jack Kemp on a lot of those points. And I like knowing that there will be a rich, diverse conversation. And as a pro-choice Republican, even though Jack's not pro-choice, it says to me, we are an open party, this is going to be a vital discussion, that all points of view are going to be on the table.

MS. WARNER: But does it say to you it is an open party, and does it say the same thing it says to her?

MR. ROBERTSON: I think the point is open, there's no question about it. I mean, there's a great deal of tolerance, and we want tolerance, and of all points of view, and I think that's fundamental. We want an open party, inclusion and exclusion. The only thing about Jack Kemp--and I think Vin knows it and I know it because I ran against him--he's a very independent guy, and the question is: Is he going to be the blocker, or does he want to be the quarterback?

MR. WEBER: That's exactly right, but Pat, I think that speaks so strongly to Sen. Dole, because he knows that about Jack Kemp and he is so secure and so obviously happy about the fact that he's put someone on his ticket who is not a rubber stamp or a carbon copy but who brings his own set of strengths and personality and energy to both this ticket and ultimately to the administration, it's great for Kemp but let's give the guy who picked him some credit. This speaks volumes about Bob Dole.

MR. ROBERTSON: I think more than anything, it says this man is qualified to take the decisions that are necessary to be President of the United States. That's what it says.

MR. WEBER: That's exactly right. It was an executive decision.

MR. ROBERTSON: Sure.

MS. WARNER: Let me ask you something that Jim just asked former President Bush which had to do with Jack Kemp being a fabulous salesman for the supply side philosophy and tax cuts. As Jim just pointed out, the release of Dole's economic plan doesn't seem to have really given him a huge bump, and the public seems very skeptical that anyone means it when they talk about tax cuts, especially in balancing the budget.

MR. WEBER: Of course. The occupant of the Oval Office today ran for President promising a tax cut and delivered a tax increase. We understand why the American people are cynical. We don't expect to win the argument about the tax plan today or tomorrow. We expect to win it by November, and the best evidence of that is Gov. Christie Whitman in New Jersey who ran on a tax-cutting platform. I was with her a couple of days ago at the Republican Governors Association Meeting, and she was quite eloquent in saying, people don't believe you right out of the chute, but if you stick with that plan, and articulate it and defend it up to election day, people want smaller government and lower taxes, and we're confident that they're going to vote for Republicans based on that and the other issues that we're standing for in this election.

REP. NANCY JOHNSON: And the fact is that the Republicans House and Republican Senate for two years now have cut taxes, cut spending more, and cut the deficit. We have done all three of those, and we--by the time the election rolls around, we'll have all those Republican candidates and incumbents out there showing the people exactly how it could be done.

MS. WARNER: Let me ask you to answer, Mr. Robertson's question, though, about Jack Kemp's willingness to be the blocker, not the quarterback, you've known him a long time.

MR. WEBER: Oh, he will be. He is a free spirit, and he's going to be interesting for you folks to cover, I have no doubt about it, but he does understand the team and he was in our leadership when I was in the House and he managed to take orders from our leader, Bob Michels, quite well, and he managed to work in the Bush administration quite well, and I have no doubt that he's going to, he's going to back up Bob Dole probably better than somebody that thought that their role was to keep quiet and out of sight and be a rubber stamp. It's going to be a marvelous ticket, and isn't it great that Nancy and I Pat all agree on that, and that's amazing. You didn't think it's possible.

REP. NANCY JOHNSON: One last thing about Dole. Remember, he's worked with a room full of quarterbacks.

MR. WEBER: That's right.

REP. NANCY JOHNSON: And out of all those quarterbacks, he has gotten action in the public interest. He is comfortable with differences of opinion. He is comfortable with strong people, outspoken people, people that differed with him, and that was one of his--part of his greatness as a leader of the Senate, and that was part of his greatness as President.

MS. WARNER: But do you all think that Jack Kemp is comfortable with being a champion or salesman for things he disagrees with?

MR. ROBERTSON: He's going to have to be. He's 61 years old. He's lived around Dole a long time. We ran both for the presidency in 1988, so he understands the commitment he's making. He's not some ingenue coming on the scene for the first time. He knows what he says and he said it so publicly he's bound by it. He's going to have to--if there's one thing I think we ought to point out, the average family of four is spending more money in taxes than they do on food, shelter, and clothing. They are burdened down with taxes, and the idea of this as some big tax cut for the rich is utter nonsense. I mean, we've got to cut taxes on these people that are going to hurt him.

MS. WARNER: We're going to have to leave it there. Thank you all very much. FOCUS - PEOPLE'S CHOICE?

MR. LEHRER: Now what some of the delegates think of the Kemp selection. Kwame Holman reports.

MR. HOLMAN: Bob Dole's arrival in San Diego had been anticipated for months. Jack Kemp, it seems, wasn't on anybody's radar screen. Certainly none of the convention delegates we talked to saw him coming, not Richard Wilborn of Kansas.

RICHARD WILBORN: I think it surprised most Kansans even that are close to Dole.

MR. HOLMAN: Chuck Berry, Colorado's speaker of the house, also was surprised.

CHUCK BERRY, Colorado Delegate: Well, I was. We hadn't been on the so-called short list, at least the ones I'd seen, until a few days before this election was made. But I've been a Jack Kemp fan for a long time. So I'm delighted that Dole has picked him to be his running mate.

MR. HOLMAN: Gordon Pederson of South Dakota was ecstatic.

GORDON PEDERSON, South Dakota Delegate: Absolutely excellent. I had a chance to talk to Kemp back in 88 when he was running, and out of the field, and I liked him then.

MR. HOLMAN: Although Dole and Kemp arrived in San Diego together, they took very different and often conflicting political routes to get here. Dole, the deficit hawk, has supported tax increases in the past to cut the deficit. He's a strong believer in a balanced budget. Kemp has been critical of Republicans for being too absorbed by efforts to balance the budget. He says tax cuts spur growth, and that reduces the deficit. And Kemp once said of Bob Dole he never met a tax he didn't hike. But here in San Diego, Kemp declared such strident statements and other differences with Dole are things of the past.

JACK KEMP, Vice Presidential Candidate: Let me clear this up once and for all. The media has reported that Bob Dole is going to have a problem perhaps choosing a quarterback for his running mate. Let me just tell you here today unambiguously Bob, you're the quarterback and I'm your blocker, and we're going all the way.

MR. HOLMAN: But Massachusetts delegate Laurie Letourneau says she won't mind if Kemp tries to throw a few passes of his own.

LAURIE LETOURNEAU, Massachusetts Delegate: I admire people who get up there and say what they think. I respect that. I hope when he disagrees with Dole, I have no problem with him, his publicly saying it if it's done in an appropriate way. Obviously, I don't want him--I would--that's one of the things I admire about him. He's not afraid to say, hey, I don't agree with him. You know, if we're going to be an inclusive party, people better realize it's important to have someone who's willing to do that, who will do that, and I think it's very important that Bob Dole listen to what he says.

MR. HOLMAN: New Jersey's delegates were celebrating Kemp's selection last night. State party leader Chuck Haytaian also believes Dole will benefit from his differences with Kemp.

CHUCK HAYTAIAN, New Jersey Republican Party: Jack Kemp has been a supply sider, and Bob Dole has been one who wants to cut the deficit. And so you get the two of them together and boy, you've got one heck of a ticket. I think now you've got a big tax cut that Dole is pushing out, and Kemp is a good spokesman.

NICK KASOFF, Buchanan Supporter: Well, he could have done a lot worse.

MR. HOLMAN: Nick Kasoff from St. Louis was among the 1200 Pat Buchanan supporters who gathered to hear their candidates speak yesterday. Like many other Buchananites, Kasoff couldn't get very excited about Dole's choice of Kemp.

NICK KASOFF: He is a social conservative and really has not wavered on the social issues, whereas with Dole we've seen a very mixed record on the social issues, so that's pleasing for those of us for whom social issues are important. On the other hand, as I mentioned before, Kemp has had a mixed record on some other issues. We would like to see some substantial scaling back of things like public housing. We believe that providing federal aid for illegal immigrants is completely inappropriate, and Kemp has been on the wrong side of some of those issues, so it's--it's with kind of mixed feelings that we approach this selection.

MR. HOLMAN: Overall, however, as Republican delegates began their convention today, they seemed more than willing to give Kemp the benefit of any doubt, believing he'll keep his past disputes with Dole in the past. DIALOGUE - CONVENTION 96 - THE DECISION

MR. LEHRER: Now, a Gergen dialogue. David Gergen, editor at large of "U.S. News & World Report," talks to longtime Republican professional Stuart Spencer about selecting the number two on the ticket.

DAVID GERGEN: Stu, Bob Dole has electrified many of the delegates here about a selection of Jack Kemp as his vice presidential running mate. Now you've been involved in a number of these campaigns. I'd like to go back to 1976 when Gerry Ford was a nominee, and he selected Bob Dole as his running mate. You were Gerry Ford's chief strategist. Tell us about that selection. It was an 11th hour selection.

STUART SPENCER, Republican Political Consultant: Yeah. It was at the last minute. It was in Kansas City. I'm sure President Ford had given a lot of thought to potential running mates weeks out ahead of that, but we went into the convention with, you know, roughly a 119-delegate lead, and that was rather small, and it was always the spectrum did Ronald Reagan want the VP slot, and so I don't think he was in a position to clearly make a decision until later on, and that's why it was an 11th hour decision about the night before he actually was nominated, and there were three or four people on the table. Ruckelshaus was on the table, Howard Baker was on the table, Dole was on the table, Andy Armstrong was on the table, and a lot of discussions were held, and he did what most of them do. He came down with the person who he felt would do him the most good, and he was comfortable with, and that was Bob Dole.

MR. GERGEN: It was mostly his own decision?

STUART SPENCER: I think it was his own decision. Some of us believe he'd made the decision already before we had the meetings. Yes. It's always a decision of the nominee, themselves.

MR. GERGEN: Right. What was he looking for in Bob Dole at that time?

STUART SPENCER: Well, the biggest thing, all the polling data we'd done during the primary and things of that nature showed us trailing in the farm belt, and Bob Dole is a candidate from the farm belt, and Bob Dole delivered the farm belt. In the end, the ticket carried the farm belt.

MR. GERGEN: He was a tireless campaigner, as I recall?

STUART SPENCER: Oh, he was a tough campaigner, a tireless campaigner, a high energy level, and was a good selection.

MR. GERGEN: Now, the next time around in 1980, you were there. Again, you flew in Ronald Reagan when he came into Detroit, Convention City, and he was trying to make up his mind, and he turned to you while you were on the plane to talk about it.

STUART SPENCER: Yeah. We were flying from LA to Detroit, and somewhere in the conversation early on, he said, what do you think about the vice presidential thing. But prior to that, which is the most interesting, he'd spent about five minutes sort of dumping on George Bush at the time because of all the terrible things he said about him during the primary, like voodoo economics and that sort of thing, which is normal and natural. And after he got through, I said, well, you may fell that way now, but I says, I think he's going to pick George Bush. And he said, why? And I said because we're flying into Detroit, the convention has written a pretty right wing platform, and you don't want to get into the position Barry Goldwater got into in 1964, George Bush is perceived as a moderate Republican. He has a constituency. He was out there, ran against you. You can bring the party together by putting George on, and then after we got back there, I wasn't in any of the discussions, but that's eventually where he ended up.

MR. GERGEN: Yeah, but, as I recall, that was the convention he looked hard at Gerry Ford.

STUART SPENCER: Well, I don't know who's looking at who. That was a non-starter, in my judgment, from day one, and Dick Cheney, the same way, we tried to get lost; we didn't want any part of that. But Bush was a good selection, and he ended up being--Ronald Reagan did respect George Bush very much, and they were very close.

MR. GERGEN: Right. So what lessons do you draw about the selection of a vice presidential candidate, what difference it makes whom you select?

STUART SPENCER: Well, I think, No. 1, you've got remember people who I think vote for the President, but there are subtleties in the selection of a vice president you have to look at. I mean, one is like the farm bill; if they can help you. Carter picked Mondale because he was a southerner.

MR. GERGEN: Right.

STUART SPENCER: --the liberals in New York.

MR. GERGEN: Right. Ultimately, it depends on the presidential candidate in the end.

STUART SPENCER: That's correct.

MR. GERGEN: Thank you very much.

STUART SPENCER: You're welcome. FOCUS - HISTORICAL VIEWS

MR. LEHRER: Now to a longer view of selecting vice presidential candidates and to Elizabeth Farnsworth.

MS. FARNSWORTH: How important is the choice of vice president? We hear now from our NewsHour regulars presidential historians Doris Kearns Goodwin and Michael Beschloss and author and journalist Haynes Johnson. They're joined tonight and throughout this convention week by William Kristol, editor and publisher of the "Weekly Standard." Good evening, everybody. Welcome. Michael, has the vice presidential choice ever elected a president?

MICHAEL BESCHLOSS, Presidential Historian: It has in a tangible way. In 1960, Lyndon Johnson from Texas helped Kennedy, and Texas also helped Kennedy carry a number of southern states. You can count the numbers of electoral votes Kennedy got--303. It was a close election. Johnson really helped. I might add that despite that, Kennedy during his three years as President never thanked Johnson for doing this, which is something that Johnson always remembered. I think it's also helped in other ways that are less tangible, though. One very good example is recent. Al Gore in 1992, Bill Clinton chose him on July 9th. After that, Clinton really was never in a position where he began to drop in the polls. He really began to go up. Many of Gore's qualities tended to enhance qualities in Clinton that really helped him.

MS. FARNSWORTH: Doris, some polls show, though, that people really are paying attention just to the President. Is it fairly rare that the vice presidential choice makes a difference?

DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN, Presidential Historian: Well, that's the conventional wisdom, that when a person goes in the booth, the only thing they think about is who the President is going to be. But I think what that misses is the fact that a person makes up their mind about there is not a whole series of emotional issues, one of which is what kind of a decision maker is this guy, and the first decision you see the presidential candidate making is who the vice presidential choice is going to be. Dole has done very well by that in terms of Kemp today. Look at the contrast when McGovern put Eagleton on the ticket. His campaign went down and never could recover from that, not only because he put him on the ticket, but that he backed him 1000 percent, and then he took him off the ticket. So I think it's a window onto the presidential nominee. It also is a window on the party, is the party going to be broad, or is the party going to be small, and choosing somebody like Kemp has made it seem broad, so it tells us about the person too, but just one last thing on Lyndon Johnson, all the rest of his life he was made, just as you say, Michael. He used to watch the videos of him going on the Southern tour called the Corn Pone Special during the 1960 campaign, and say, he didn't ever thank me for that.

HAYNES JOHNSON, Author/Journalist: But there's something else. I mean, the fact is, you know, that it matters to the country because the person who's vice president, even if they don't win the election for the president nominee, might become the president. I mean, I was looking, you know, since Franklin Roosevelt 52 years ago picked Harry Truman, we've had 10 men in the White House, 10 men so far. Half the people who are vice president in those years went on to become President. Two of them actually became vice presidents and ran as the nominee of their party and lost, Hubert Humphrey and more recently and Mondale. And here's Bob Dole, who's a vice presidential nominee, himself, and now is a nominee of his party, so it matters historically. Assassination, death, impeachment, whatever the--in our modern period--even if we say here, it doesn't matter in terms of electoral politics, it matters in terms of history.

MS. FARNSWORTH: And do you think it does matter in terms of electoral politics overall? Do you think the conventional wisdom is wrong?

WILLIAM KRISTOL, The Weekly Standard: I think it's wrong in the way that Doris suggested. The vice president--

MS. FARNSWORTH: Not because of the vote.

WILLIAM KRISTOL: Well, it's not at the end of the day the voter goes into the booth and says I'll vote Republican because of the vice presidential nominee, but the vice presidential pick, that's the dynamics of the campaign. Gore helped Clinton, it got him--the convention was strong--after that, the bus tour, and he had a huge 17 point bump over about in the polls in about 10 days. Kemp-- Dole's had a pretty good week. If he gives a good acceptance speech Thursday night, we will view the vice presidential pick a bold and decisive pick which energized his own supporters at the convention, and which I think reaches out lots of other Americans, who view that as a key part in the Dole surge from twenty points down to five points down or even or whatever. The Democratic strategy--I was talking to the Democratic strategist pretty close to Clinton a couple of weeks ago--I said we were speculating about all the VP possibilities, and he said, it doesn't matter, doesn't matter, because we know who the vice president is, the vice president, above all, is not Colin Powell, in other words, Dole couldn't get his real first choice, Colin Powell. And secondly, the vice president is Gingrich, as in Dole-Gingrich, a Dole- Gingrich Congress. And if the pick had been an unknown, fairly unknown--Connie Mack, John Engler--I mean, they're all good men, but it would have been Dole couldn't get Powell and Dole's running with Gingrich. Kemp is a big enough name that I don't think they can simply say it's Dole-Gingrich, Dole-Gingrich anymore. Now it really is a Dole-Kemp ticket.

MICHAEL BESCHLOSS: I think another thing on this is that the office of the vice presidency is very different from the way it used to be. Vice presidents didn't used to become president very much. Nowadays not only, as Haynes mentioned, do vice presidents become president, but since Richard Nixon in the 1950's, everyone who was a vice president is basically the odds on favorite to be the front runner for the presidency next time. And so the result is you've got different things in the choice. It used to be in the old days, when the vice president was rather inert, you would balance the ticket geographically, and that was something that's not so important now because people are more mobile. They don't have that kind of attachment to the state that they live in, and the other thing is there was always a feeling of ideological balance. You choose a vice president like John Garner in 1932, much more conservative than FDR. When you've got a vice president who is likely to become president and also to be a rather powerful figure in the White House, you don't want to have someone who is enormously at odds with the president he serves.

DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN: The only thing that cuts into some of the euphoria that people might be feeling at the Republican convention is I remember what the Democrats felt when Ferraro was chosen in 1984. In fact, I remember as a woman waking up the next morning thinking history has been made. I was so excited. People were crying tears of joy at that convention. Obviously, it didn't work out the way they hoped. Things went downhill once she got out there and the visibility heard and all the finances of her husband came in, and that's when I remember Richard Nixon's remark. He said, I wish I could run alone. I don't want anybody."

MICHAEL BESCHLOSS: I might also interject just on Doris's point, George Bush felt that the selection of Dan Quayle would carry the baby boom generation. As a member of that generation, I can say that it didn't have that effect particularly.

MS. WARNER: Haynes.

HAYNES JOHNSON: I do think there's something about the euphoria, though. Our chairs are still warm from Pat Robertson and Nancy Johnson and Vin Weber--but that reflects accurately I think this convention which was very demoralized when it began. I think this is a case where it might really make a difference down the road because he has unified it seems so far a very sort of dispirited party that began this convention.

WILLIAM KRISTOL: And in the cases of Ferraro and Quayle are not like Kemp in this respect. Both of them were unknown actually, and they got defined by problems in their past or alleged problems in their past, the draft finances or whatever. I think Dole saw last week that that was the danger with taking an unknown candidate, that, you know, we would hear about the first thing the voters would know about this man is that he smoked dope 15 years ago, that he, you know, had difficulties of one sort or another. Kemp is well known, and if you look back over the last 30 years, when you pick someone who's run for President, who's already a national figure as your VP, you usually have made a good pick. Kennedy-Johnson in 60, Clinton-Gore in 92, Reagan-Bush, Reagan-Bush--it's just very hard to introduce someone to the national press corps in this day and age without having an initial introduction turn out pretty badly.

MS. FARNSWORTH: I'm interested in all of your view that this is a window into the candidate's soul and that that's how everybody sees it, into the way the candidate will behave. Do you think that's always been true, that people have seen the vice presidential choice that way?

DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN: Well, I think in the old days before primaries were so important the person who was the presidential nominee didn't even think about the vice presidency until he got the election. And then it was, as Michael suggested, region, ideology, or religious balance. It wasn't so much a real decision, except a political one. Now when they've won a primary so long before, I think they've come up with a lousy choice at the last minute. It's no excuse for that because they've had plenty of time to think about it.

HAYNES JOHNSON: I was just laughing. When they got Theodore Roosevelt, was put as vice president, they said, Mark Hannah, the Republican boss, thank God, we got rid of the damn cowboy, they thought he'd be lost forever, and of course, he became president, and that sort of told you where you used to be.

MS. FARNSWORTH: Okay. We'll be back later with you all. Thanks. Jim. FOCUS - POLITICAL WRAP

MR. LEHRER: And finally some closing words from Shields & Gigot, syndicated columnist Mark Shields, "Wall Street Journal" columnist

Paul Gigot. They turned the lights on, guys. That was terrific. First, just quickly, do you agree that--Mark--that the Kemp selection has really made a difference in this convention, for this convention?

MARK SHIELDS, Syndicated Columnist: It's changed the convention. This was a convention that was down, that was in a sense of almost emotional torpor when it arrived here last week, last Thursday, and I think Jack Kemp has given it--Jack Kemp is sunny. He's "can do," brings the brightness to it. He is every Democrat's favorite Republican. And he's a lot of Republicans' favorite Republican. So I mean, he's really, I think, it's a choice that's energized.

MR. LEHRER: Paul.

PAUL GIGOT, Wall Street Journal: A week ago they were sending out some of the delegates for Dr. Kevorkian the mood was so somber. Now it's really energized. The people here are--they believe that this- -the choice signals that this election is not merely about the end of an era, the end of the last hurrah say for the World War II generation that Bob Dole represents. It's also about the future, and Kemp represents that future. He has that sunny, optimistic message, and that energy.

MR. LEHRER: Okay. Speaking of the future, let's talk about tonight. The convention, itself, gets underway tonight, and give us your dope sheet to viewers as to what they should look for tonight. What should they expect?

MR. GIGOT: Well, I think the big highlight of the night is going to be Colin Powell.

MR. LEHRER: Which is at the very end tonight.

MR. GIGOT: He's going to--he's a fabulous speaker, and it's really his coming out party as a Republican. The only other big public event was when he declared he was not going to run at the same time he announced he was a Republican. That'll be one of the emotional highlights. I think the others will be the presidents, the former presidents, and particularly Nancy Reagan with a tribute to Ronald Reagan.

MR. LEHRER: President Ford and President Bush are both going to speak. Nancy Reagan is going to speak, and they're going to run a film on Ronald Reagan that Michael Deaver made.

MR. GIGOT: That's right. So I think that will be, if there is an emotional highlight tonight, that will be the main one because the delegates have such a fondness for Ronald Reagan.

MR. SHIELDS: Colin Powell, if you're the Republicans, you want Colin Powell to be the centerpiece tonight, with all due respect and deference to President Bush and President Ford. People have heard them speak before, and Paul's right. I mean, here's Colin Powell, who is an electrifying speaker, who most Americans have never heard speak and certainly never heard speak as a Republican, as a political figure. You want him to be the future. You want to send up a message this is an inclusive party, this is a party that has reached out to the most prominent and most respected African-American in the country, and he's joined this party. That's a message after the platform fights and all the other things that they want to send.

MR. LEHRER: So it really doesn't even matter what he says, just the fact that he's there speaking, do you mean?

MR. SHIELDS: I think that carries with it not unlike Barbara Jordan in 1976 when she electrified the crowd at Madison Square Garden at the Democratic National Convention, there is just a persona of Colin Powell at this convention I think will have a magic moment and I think it'll be very positive for the Republicans.

MR. LEHRER: And do you think that's the message that Bob Dole and the organizers of this convention want? When people turn off the tube tonight, that's what--they want to leave em with Colin Powell, not with anything else?

MR. SHIELDS: Not with a T-shirt that says intolerance is a virtue.

MR. GIGOT: Jim, and this is a party that's been beat over the head over a year as extremist. Colin Powell at the podium is a walking, living example of a party that is inclusive.

MR. LEHRER: All right, gentlemen, thank you both very much, and we'll see you later. NEWS SUMMARY

MR. LEHRER: And in the other non-Republican convention news of this day, the Reform Party held its first convention this weekend in Long Beach, California. Members began voting today by mail, telephone, and computer for their presidential nominee. The choices are party founder businessman Ross Perot and former Colorado Governor Richard Lamm. Both addressed the convention last night. Both criticized the Republican and Democratic Parties for their lack of creating solutions to the nation's problems. The second half of the Reform Party convention will take place next weekend in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. The party nominee will be announced at that time. President Clinton interrupted his Wyoming vacation today to announce the shutdown of a planned mine near Yellowstone National Park. The site, located two and a half miles from the park, was expected to produce at least $600 million in gold, silver, and copper. That developer, Crown Butte Mines, Incorporated, will receive federal land in return for closing the site. President Clinton said the deal was a victory for all involved.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: The agreement that has been reached with Crown Butte to terminate this project altogether proves that everyone can agree that Yellowstone is more precious than gold, that its mining jobs are good jobs, and mining is important to our national economy and to our national security. But we can't have mines everywhere, and mines that could threaten any national treasures like Yellowstone, that's too much to ask of the American people.

MR. LEHRER: On the TWA Flight 800 story today salvage crews think they have located the fourth and last engine from the 747. They will try to raise it from the ocean tonight. Divers have found another body. Two hundred and thirty people were killed when the plane went down in July; a hundred and ninety-nine have now been found. Yesterday, the last of four cargo bins from the 747 was brought up from the ocean. Investigators said none of them appeared to have been blown apart by a bomb. They are now turning their attention to the front coach section of the aircraft. They said there was significant damage to suggest the possibility a bomb was placed in carry-on luggage or a food cart. Overseas today in Chechnya, Russian security chief Alexander Lebed went there to negotiate a cease-fire with separatist rebels. The rebels overran the capital city of Grozny last week. Some 200 Russian soldiers were killed. After returning to Moscow, Lebed told reporters the cease-fire could begin as early as tomorrow. He said the condition of Russian troops was much worse than he had imagined, calling them poor creatures who were hungry, frail, and half-dressed. RECAP

MR. LEHRER: And that's it for the NewsHour tonight. Our joint coverage with NBC News of this evening's convention session begins at 8 PM Eastern Daylight Time on most public television stations, and we'll be back here on the NewsHour tomorrow night. I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank you and good night.