The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

MS. WARNER: Good evening. I'm Margaret Warner in Washington.

MR. MacNeil: And I'm Robert MacNeil in New York. After tonight's News Summary, Charlayne Hunter-Gault in Damascus has an exclusive interview with President Assad of Syria. We have a report on the evidence in the Denny file in Los Angeles, and the week's political analysis of Mark Shields joined by Kate O'Beirne. NEWS SUMMARY

MR. MacNeil: The International Community today offered its financial support for the peace agreement between the Palestine Liberation Organization and Israel. Forty-three nations pledged to contribute some $2 billion in aid over five years at a donor's conference in Washington. Sec. of State Christopher called the meeting "a striking success." The U.S. has pledged $500 million. The money will be spent on infrastructure for Gaza and the West Bank Town of Jericho as they transfer from Israeli to Palestinian rule. At the White House, President Clinton brought together Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres and Crown Prince Hassan of Jordan. It was the second highest level public meeting ever between the two countries. They agreed to set up a committee to work together on economic and environmental matters. Afterwards, the President was asked about the Arab states' refusal to lift their economic boycott against Israel.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: And obviously, as you know, the United States wanted the boycott lifted now, but basically they were saying we have to finish the peace process. Well, we all agree with that. Israel agrees with that. No one disputes that, and so I don't want us to be deterred. This is a really historic day. We have this meeting and the agreement coming out of it. We have the remarkable donors conference today, and the results coming out of it. We are moving this process very quickly, and I am confident that in the course of time we will get the boycott lifted.

MR. MacNeil: The President also said he was hopeful that Israel would soon reach peace agreements with two more of its Arab neighbors, Lebanon and Syria. But Syria's President, Hafez Al- Assad, said today in a NewsHour interview that he opposed separate agreements between Israel and individual states. We'll have the full interview right after this News Summary. Margaret.

MS. WARNER: The death toll from yesterday's devastating earthquake in India passed 21,000 today and was expected to rise still further. Hardest hit was the state of Maharashtra, where many villages were completely flattened. Alex Thompson of Independent Television News filed this report.

ALEX THOMPSON, ITN: In the town of Kilahari, near the epicenter of the earthquake, destruction is almost total. And where some walls withstood the shock, the roof was gone, crushing all beneath. A survivor stands here, numb with shock. Others, distraught with grief, try to describe the scale of this disaster. Here, someone has salvaged a few household goods piled by the roadside in a pathetic heap. Rain has begun to fall, which hampers the army convoys trying to get to the scene along narrow country roads. The need for shelter and food is acute. Heavy lifting here is also vital, and though there's little hope that anyone has survived beneath the rubble of their homes, three people were dragged out alive today. The danger of disease increases by the hour, and local supplies of drinking water are already contaminated. Many on the scene have had to use their bare hands to drag the dead from the rubble, carrying away the victims in flimsy blankets. The open streets have been turned into makeshift morgues. Already, more than 3,000 people have been cremated. The death toll is India's worst natural disaster in 50 years, and the bodies are too numerous for some makeshift fires that have been lit by the survivors of the quake. For those who were lucky enough to escape, there is still the grief of returning to find husbands and children dead. Then almost all communications lines are down, and some government officials have arrived to listen to the needs of the survivors, and they begin to plan the logistics of getting aid and relief into this disaster zone. Some makeshift hospitals are functioning, but there's still a desperate need for medical equipment and supplies. But for this little girl, no more than 12-years-old, that help's only just getting through and has arrived too late. She died soon after these pictures were taken. Already, makeshift refugee camps have begun to spring up, but it's still too early to tell whether the relief effort will be able to keep them going, and there's already the danger of looting, and the army's attention has been diverted from the relief effort to patrolling the streets.

MR. MacNeil: In Moscow today, there was no progress in talks to end the armed standoff between the government and hard-line lawmakers. The negotiations were mediated by the Russian Orthodox Church. The lawmakers rejected the deal made last night by their leaders because it required their defenders to surrender their weapons. Boris Yeltsin went on television and repeated his vow not to take the barricaded parliament building by force. But outside the building, government troops scuffled once again with anti- Yeltsin protesters. Both the government and the lawmakers said they would return to the talks tomorrow. Libya missed today's deadline to hand over two suspects in the 1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103. The deadline was set by the U.S., Britain, and France, who vowed to push for tougher sanctions against Libya if it failed to comply. The three nations began circulating a draft resolution for new sanctions at the U.N. today but said they would not push for its immediate adoption. The French ambassador said Libya had shown goodwill by promising earlier this week to urge the suspects to stand trial in Scotland.

MS. WARNER: In economic news, the government's chief forecasting gage recorded its strongest gain of the year in August. The Index of Leading Economic Indicators jumped 1 percent. It was the third consecutive monthly increase. The Commerce Department also reported that new orders to U.S. factories rose .9 percent in the same month. Chrysler reached a tentative agreement with the United Autoworkers today for a new, three-year contract. No deals on the pact were released, but UAW officials said it was patterned on an agreement reached with Ford last month. The main sticking point in the Chrysler talks involved so-called "outsourcing," the use of non-union outside suppliers for parts. Chrysler relies on outside suppliers far more than Ford or General Motors do.

MR. MacNeil: Jurors in the Reginald Denny beating trial began deliberations this afternoon. Damian Williams and Henry Watson are charged with attempted murder in the 1992 attack on Denny during the Los Angeles riots. Denny was dragged from his truck, and the attack was captured by live television cameras. If convicted, the two could face life in prison. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg officially took her seat on the high court this morning. President Clinton joined Ginsburg's friends and relatives for a formal investiture ceremony. Afterwards, she posed with Chief Justice William Rehnquist outside the court for a traditional picture taking session.

MS. WARNER: That's our summary of the top stories today. Just ahead, President Assad of Syria, the Denny trial, and our Friday political analysis. NEWSMAKER

MR. MacNeil: We start with a Newsmaker interview with the President of Syria, Hafez Al-Assad. Mr. Assad's interview with Charlayne Hunter-Gault is the first he's done on American television in over two years. It is part of our series of interviews with Middle Eastern leaders following up on the Israeli- Palestinian Peace Accord. Charlayne talked with President Assad last night at the presidential palace in Damascus.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Mr. President, thank you for joining us.

PRESIDENT ASSAD: [speaking through interpreter] Welcome.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Mr. President, I'd like to begin with the agreement between the PLO and Israel. In recent days it seems as if your criticism has gotten stronger and stronger against the agreement. Could you tell us if my perception is correct, and, if so, why.

PRESIDENT ASSAD: [speaking through interpreter] We were of this perception, of this understanding that the coordination among the Arab countries would achieve its objective of pushing the peace process forward and of achieving success and security for the peace process as a role. Suddenly we hear about the agreement that takes place between the PLO, of part of the leaders of the PLO and Israel. And from my point of view, they have not taken the best option or the best alternative, and the best way to achieve peace. And in spite of that evidence, we decided not to hinder the agreement which they have reached, not to put obstacles before what they have done. We said that this belongs to the responsibility of the Palestinian people and their institutions. Nobody expects us to raise banners of happiness and pleasure with such a clandestine agreement held behind our backs.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: But you said you wouldn't stand in the way of other Palestinian groups opposing the accord. Does that in any way give a green light to the more radical elements who would oppose the accord through violence, the fact that you have said you wouldn't stand in their way? What do you think that -- what kind of message does that send, or signal does that send to the more radical elements?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: We did not -- we decided not to hinder the agreement. Perhaps you wanted to ask where is the Palestinian opposition and what is your attitude to the Palestinian opposition?

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: That's a good question. Why don't you answer it.

PRESIDENT ASSAD: I don't think that it is our specialization or our right, or even our duty to suppress opposition to this agreement or to any other agreement.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Well, would you encourage opposition to it?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: I said we will not hinder, we will not suppress. This opposition, some voices from Israel come out sometimes that there is opposition only in Syria, and Syria should silence them. If Syria wanted to silence Palestinian opposition to the agreement, then why doesn't somebody ask Israel also to silence the Israeli opposition to the agreement? There are a number of parties in Israel that are opposed strongly and firmly to this agreement.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: But the Knesset has approved the agreement.

PRESIDENT ASSAD: The Likud, which is the main party of the opposition, he said that when -- if it comes to power, it would negate or cancel this agreement, and Rabin did not silence this opposition. Then why should Syria alone be asked to carry a stick and to try to suppress the opposition to this agreement? Syria will never carry such a stick and will never even, whether it agrees or disagrees with any other agreement, it would not carry a stick and become a policeman against people who consider this cause as the central cause of the struggle of having been such for several decades, for many scores of these.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: What do you think the other Arabs should do at this point, the other Arabs involved in various stages of negotiation with the Israelis?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: They should continue the peace process which began in Madrid.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Would you be prepared -- we all know you have considerable influence, for example, over Lebanon -- would you be prepared to encourage Lebanon to make a deal with Syria -- or with Israel at this time?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: We agreed to work together in coordination.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: So you're saying that Lebanon should wait until everybody is now ready to move in unison, that no more separate deals should be cut until everybody is ready to cut the deal together?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: The way is not open for any party to carry out the bargain which it wishes or intends, wishes to carry out. The Israelis have not opened the way, and other -- our peoples, themselves, have not opened the way for us, or the Arab people. The Arabs are one people. If I were to sign an agreement similar to that to signed by Arafat, I would have faced great and big problems. Love or hate for Arafat -- it's not a matter of love for Arafat or hate for me, because the Syrian citizens would believe in this case that by taking such a decision I have relegated or given up another Arab people. And it is the same thing in Lebanon. People of many countries may not realize deeply there are Arab leaders who paid their lives as a price for such a separate or individual attitudes of the area.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Are you suggesting that Arafat could pay such a price?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: Arafat and I, and we all know, all Arab leaders know that the masses of the people will be according to the masses' understanding or how these masses interpret the behavior of their leaders.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: If Arafat were murdered or assassinated, is that what you mean?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: [speaking through interpreter] He is not speaking about Arafat as an individual, as a person. It is not in particular.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: But leaders who make deals.

PRESIDENT ASSAD: We will not support the method of killing or assassination. And I have confidence in myself, and I have confidence in my people. And I am sure that I enjoy the confidence of large masses in our country, and in spite of that, if I carry out an action which is understood or interpreted by the Syrian people, but it is incompatible with the aspirations of the Syrian citizens, I may pay the price like the others.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Well, Mr. President, Prime Minister Rabin of Israel has said that Syria right now is not a priority, that the priority is the PLO-Israeli agreement, and that Syria, they can get to Syria in six or eight months. Does this sound like an appropriate time period to prepare the people, six to eight months? Is that a timetable you can sign on to?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: This is a logic of running away from peace, and it violates the rules of the Madrid. The new logic which we seem to be hearing these days shows of certain that Israel does not want peace. That's why the others, all the others, should understand that we want peace, but we are not begging.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: But what evidence do you have, what leads you to say that you don't believe that Israel wants peace?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: There is no basis for what the Israelis are talking about. Today is specialized for such and such country and tomorrow is for such and such a country. It's a matter of a process, of a peace process as a whole. The logic which you have referred to in quotations from Rabin is this is the logic of war. Have we reached peace yet? We are still belligerent. Israel still occupies our land, displacing hundreds of thousands and millions. We have started the peace process but we have not reached peace yet.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: All right. What is Syria going to do? Is Syria going to stay in the peace process in spite of what has happened between Israel and the PLO?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: Yes, we will continue, if we find enthusiasm from the other side to the peace process.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: But what would constitute enthusiasm? For example, what --

PRESIDENT ASSAD: Our states have delegations negotiating in Washington. There are rounds, and there are intervals between rounds, if these rounds were to achieve progress and enthusiasm expressed in the progress, in the amount of progress achieved in these rounds. Yet, I've got to say the U.S. is committed to push the peace process forward.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: President Clinton told you this?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: And Sec. Christopher also.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: How far apart do you believe that you and the Israelis are at this time?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: We entered the peace process on certain basic information, and certain prospects, and hopes, and aspirations. Nothing has developed ever since. This has been a trend in their attitude from the beginning of the peace process. They offer nothing, they present nothing, and only they say they want more. They want this and they want that.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: President Mubarak has talked about a compromise that would get the momentum going between Israel and Syria, a compromise that would -- in which Israel would withdraw from the Golan Heights over a period of four months, and then Syria would recognize Israel with full diplomatic relations, opening of borders for the most part. Is that a compromise, that kind of thing something you think you could live with?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: We have said, our Syrian delegation in the peace process and I personally have said on many occasions that the peace process is a whole, but in spite of saying that, we added to it that this whole contained elements. These elements are withdrawal, peace, and security, and that we have to discuss all these elements and each party takes what we agree that it is his right which achieves its aspirations. We know that peace has its requirements. We do not expect to get our rights or what we think that it is our right without giving the others also what is basically a right.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: What went through your mind when you saw Arafat shake hands with Rabin?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: I said that he had made a mistake against himself and against the parties with which he has been coordinating in the same process for a very long time. We did not support but we did not hinder.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: But the earth didn't move in your mind when you saw these two enemies for 40 years shake hands, you personally, Mr. President, your thoughts when you saw this happen, did it pain you, or did you say, ah, I can see a possibility in my own mind, or --

PRESIDENT ASSAD: I do not feel that it as negotiated -- we did not consider it such a big deal. I do not think that the consequences of it are going to be earth shaking either positively or negatively, particularly since Arafat used to, has been saying for a very long time. We are seeking with Rabin, or Shamir before Rabin.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: In your own mind, can you foresee a time when Syria will, in fact, recognize the state of Israel and its right to exist?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: Perhaps after withdrawal from the occupied territories.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Would it be any time before that, or would it take the withdrawal for you to say support lifting of the Arab boycott?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: We believe that all elements, particularly those which we call the fruits of peace, should be linked and associated with peace, itself.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: So until there's a comprehensive settlement among all of the Arab parties, you will not sanction calling off the boycott?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: Of course, and the Israelis know this very well. The boycott took place because of the wars and the occupation. Palestine is the essence of the cause.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: And so that's why you're saying that without a comprehensive peace, there will be no peace for Israel?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: How can we distinguish a difference yet? How can we say whether the Lebanese land is better, or has more priority than the Syrian land, the Jordanian land, Palestinian land, this land is intertwined and it is all Arab territory. There is no priority. There are no priorities.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: What you would say now is the biggest obstacle to a comprehensive peace?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: The non-seriousness of Israel, non-seriousness. I'm not speaking out of hostile feelings or otherwise.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: What role do you see the --

PRESIDENT ASSAD: The obstacles to which you refer could be overcome.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: What role do you see --

PRESIDENT ASSAD: We work to overcome this obstacle.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: So you genuinely, you're saying you genuinely want peace?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: Certainly.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: What role, whatrole do you see the United States playing in this, and what would you like from the United States?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: Through our contacts with the American government we are convinced that America will do something to push the peace process forward.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Have you discussed with the U.S. administration removing Syria from the terrorist list of countries?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: We do not view these things as part of the peace process.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: But do you think that Syria should be removed from the list of terrorist states, you deserve to be removed?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: If Syria practices terrorism, then I would like its name to remain on the list of states that support terrorism. I ask an American delegation of a high level I don't want to name, and I asked them this very simple question. I said to them, you speak about terrorism, a great deal about terrorism, and Syria, give us now what evidence, one example of an event of terrorism in which Syria was involved which was carried out. They did not have anything of the sort.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: On that point, the Israelis have argued that Syria houses and supports and even promotes terrorist groups, that there are 10 terrorist groups that are harbored here in Syria, and that Syria -- I think there's a general perception in the West that Syria harbors these groups for its own purposes. How would you respond to those criticisms and perceptions?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: Anybody who knows what is going on in the region if they scratch their heads and think a little bit, they would know that this is not true, that terrorist is a criminal, to make extortions, even individual, personal purposes and benefits. A struggle against a force of occupation, if this kind of struggle is called terrorism and if it is applied to us, this means that all the peoples of the earth are terrorists, because the people of the world throughout history were colonized and each country which was colonized struggled with various efforts and means to kick out their colonies and to liberate their land. The United States practiced this kind of struggle. I said this to more than one official, American official on more than one occasion. We have to practice this kind of struggle in the Arab world. We had colonists. Do we smile for them? Did you expect us to smile for them? We fought against those colonists with all the means at our disposal.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: So you still consider violence against what you consider to be oppressors as a legitimate political weapon?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: Against imperialism this is the kind of violence which is not only legitimate but it is a duty.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Finally, Mr. President, you talked about the necessity of preparing the people. How long will it take to prepare yourself and the people, if ever, to live in peaceful coexistence with Israel?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: We always keep our people well informed about our political orientations and directions all the time. We declare, and we have always been declaring that we want peace, and we work to achieve peace. Hence, we say that if we under the International Community are able to achieve an agreement that achieves or brings about peace and justice, and it is comprehensive, then we are sure that our people would respond and comply with the requirements of such an agreement.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: And you don't want to put a timetable on it?

PRESIDENT ASSAD: I wish this to happen tomorrow.

MS. HUNTER-GAULT: Well, Mr. President, thank you very much for this rare interview.

PRESIDENT ASSAD: Thank you very much, and I wish you all success.

MR. MacNeil: We'll continue our interviews with Middle East leaders on Monday with Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres. Still ahead on the NewsHour tonight, an update on the Denny trial, and political analyst Mark Shields, joined by Kate O'Beirne. UPDATE - WEIGHING THE EVIDENCE

MS. WARNER: Next tonight, a look at the trial of two men accused of beating truck driver Reginald Denny and seven others during the Los Angeles riot. Millions of people watched the attack live on television. The defendants face possible sentences of life in prison. The jury began its deliberations today. Correspondent Jeffrey Kaye of public station KCET-Los Angeles has this update.

MR. KAYE: After a six-week trial, closing arguments in the case of People Vs. Watson & Williams began Wednesday.

JANET MOORE, Prosecutor: How much force did Damian Williams use when he threw that brick? Did he toss it, or did he haul back as far as he could with a full body stance and throw that thing? That's what he did.

MR. KAYE: Prosecutor Janet Moore methodically took the jury through the list of charges against two men accused of various assaults at the outset of the 1992 Los Angeles riots, Henry Watson and Damian Williams.

JANET MOORE: Defendant Williams in his heart at that moment wanted to take this man out. He wanted to take him down. He wanted to wipe him out. He wanted to kill him.

MR. KAYE: In his summation, Williams' attorney, Edi Faal, tried to chip away at the prosecution's case. Faal questioned whether the man accused of the videotaped assault is, in fact, his client.

EDI FAAL, Defense Lawyer: One may say, you know what, this man looks very much like Mr. Williams, I think that's him. But is that enough?

MR. KAYE: Faal reminded the jury that the man prosecutors say is Williams at times has a t-shirt with a stain, at times without one.

EDI FAAL: Which is really nothing because, as you know, this was one the worst riots in modern U.S. history, and in the middle of this riot, a rioter is saying, gee, I need pressed clothes, I have to stop the rioting now and go home and change.

MR. KAYE: In addition to the claim of mistaken identity, Faal argued that if the defendants did commit violence, there's no evidence they intended to kill anyone.

EDI FAAL: They tried to make it into an attempted murder case. They tried to make it into an aggravated mayhem case but it is not that. It's a beating case. Reginald Denny was beaten. It's regrettable, but that's what it was. Nothing more.

MR. KAYE: Moore sought to undercut Faal's various arguments.

JANET MOORE: What you heard was this: It's not my guy. It's no Damian Williams. But if it is, he didn't do what they said he did. But if he did, he didn't mean to do it.

MR. KAYE: As for Henry Watson, in his closing argument, his lawyer, Earl Broady, conceded his client assaulted truckers Larry Tarbin and Reginald Denny. In the case of Denny, Broady implied the jury should consider convicting Watson of the lesser crime of simple assault instead of attempted murder because Broady said Watson was actually protecting Denny from other assailants.

EARL BROADY, Defense Lawyer: Mr. Watson appears to be pushing and is pushing this man backward. He is not encouraging him to strike Mr. Denny, and Mr. Watson's out of view at the time this person threw the brick or the rock toward Denny. Now, I should mention to you that Mr. Watson did not aid or abet anyone. He's trying to stop the offender.

MR. KAYE: Jurors will have to consider 12 counts ranging from attempted murder to robbery. While much of the publicity has revolved around the beating of Reginald Denny, Denny is only a part of the story. There are eight victims named by the prosecution in this case. Alicia Maldonado, an X-ray technician, was pelted with rocks as she drove through the intersection. Williams and Watson are accused of assault with a deadly weapon. Driver Larry Tarvin, pulled from his medical supply truck and beaten, his supplies stolen, Watson is accused of assault with a deadly weapon, his foot, as aiding and abetting the robbery. Prince Sharbona Taqa Hirata was beaten up, as was law student Jorge Gonzales and construction worker Fidel Lopez, who was also spray painted. Williams is accused of assault with a deadly weapon in those attacks. Fire battalion chief Terence Manning was on his way to a fire with firefighter Fred Mathis when their car was hit by rocks and bottles. Williams is charged with two counts of assault with a deadly weapon on a firefighter. The most serious charges result from the beating and robbery of Denny. Williams and Watson are both accused of attempting to murder him and of aiding and abetting those who robbed Denny. In addition, Williams was charged with aggravated mayhem, an accusation that Williams intended to disable Denny permanently. Williams is also charged with using a deadly weapon, a brick.

JANET MOORE: We have seen that video. It is burned in our brains. You all know what happened to Reginald Denny.

MR. KAYE: Besides videotape and still photos, prosecutors relied on three eyewitnesses who say they saw the defendants beating victims at the scene. Other witnesses who knew the defendants previously identified them from videotape and from photographs. Prosecutors pointed out clothing to try to track the defendants from one scene to another. Last week, it was the defense's turn to present its case. Lawyers for Watson and Williams had a three- pronged strategy, first to discredit a key prosecution eyewitness. Philip Davis challenged the testimony of a gas station cashier who said he saw Williams throw a brick at Denny. The cashier said he, himself, was beaten up after Denny but Davis said the cashier was assaulted at the gas station before the Denny beating and was in no position to observe Denny or his red truck.

EDI FAAL: At the time you observed the gas station attendant being kicked and beaten, had you seen a red truck come into the intersection?

WITNESS: No, I hadn't.

MR. KAYE: Recalled to the stand by the prosecution, gas station cashier Gabriel Kintana stuck by his previous testimony.

JANET MOORE: Did you see the driver of that truck get hit in the head with a brick?

GABRIEL: Yes.

MR. KAYE: The second line of defense was medical testimony. Two doctors questioned the causes and seriousness of the victims' injuries. Emergency physician Erb Edwards was called in attempt to minimize injuries suffered by Fidel Lopez, but the strategy may have backfired when prosecutor Lawrence Morrison asked about the danger of spray paint.

LAWRENCE MORRISON: In your medical opinion, could spray paint cause death?

DOCTOR: It has the potential to.

MR. KAYE: The final defense attack was on the issue of intent, which prosecutors must prove to obtain convictions on the attempted murder and aggravated mayhem charges. UCLA psychiatrist Armando Torres Morales suggested the actions of rioters are spontaneous.

ARMANDO TORRES MORALES, Psychiatrist: And they begin to act out various types of behavior almost as if it was in unison, as if it was organized, as if it was planned, but it's all very impulsively acted out.

MR. KAYE: But prosecution witness criminologist Paul Tracy said individuals in a mob can make up their own mind.

PAUL TRACY, Criminologist: My research indicates that within a group people are still able and do, in fact, think for themselves and act.

MR. KAYE: In closing arguments, the prosecution contended the defendants aided and abetted the criminal acts of other rioters. The defense asked the racially mixed jury to avoid making Williams and Watson scapegoats for the riots. FOCUS - POLITICAL WRAP

MS. WARNER: Finally it's Friday and time for our political analysis with syndicated columnist Mark Shields. Joining him tonight is Kate O'Beirne. She's vice president of government relations at the Heritage Foundation and contributing editor of the National Review. Welcome, Kate.

MS. O'BEIRNE: Thanks, Margaret.

MS. WARNER: Welcome back, Mark.

MR. SHIELDS: Thank you very much.

MS. WARNER: Well, this was a big week on health care, of course, the second week of the sales campaign of the administration. And of course, Hillary Clinton was really carrying the ball this week. What impact did you think she had, Mark, on the health care debate?

MR. SHIELDS: Oh, I think Hillary -- I think on the health care debate it was positive as far as the administration is concerned. She disarmed her critics. I mean, what she did was she shattered the stereotype that had been created by her by many of her political opponents, husband's political opponents. And that was the sort of tight-lipped, unsmiling, unhumorous, ardent, militant feminist. And she came on for someone with humor and even more than that, someone with enormous knowledge. I mean, we are so used to people going up on Capitol Hill with hovering aides whispering into the ears and pointing to charts and slipping them notes. And I think it was truly impulsive to see her do it. Finally, of course, it's just -- it marked, I thought, an emergence of the First Lady from the -- we've always know the First Ladies had power, considerable power. Certainly, we found out afterwards how much Nancy Reagan had on her husband's schedule, appointments, rapprochement with the Soviet Union, but now it's out front. And I think that's a major change, I don't think we'll ever go back.

MS. WARNER: Agree, Kate?

MS. O'BEIRNE: Yeah. It's -- we're in the very early stages. I think we've got to send, as Hillary Clinton spoke to some five congressional committees, this is a very complicated issue. There weren't that many questions even repeated over the course of those days by all those members, and I, of course, totally agree with Mark about how well prepared and what a fine job she did, and I am totally dismayed at so many male members of Congress in shock by this opposition that a woman is perfectly capable of having a command of the details and doing a good job. Every woman I've spoken to has felt the same way to a woman. They were not the least bit surprised that she was up to the task, and they were very depressed that this seemed to be news to male members of Congress. In fact, I think Dick Armey of Texas was the most liberated man all week. He treated her as an equal, and they were an equal match. They had a sharp exchange, a cordial but sharp exchange, and he paid her the enormous compliment of taking her seriously, of not going through the details you know, the substance you know. It was really a depressing spectacle. But, as you know, there is no consensus on Capitol Hill about how to tackle, you know, what needs to be done about health care. If there were, a bill would have passed two years ago.

MS. WARNER: Let me ask one other thing about Hillary, and then I want to get on to health care as an issue, and where it's going from here. Hillary Clinton's approval ratings seem pretty constant. They're pretty high, about 60, 61 percent, but there's still 40 percent of the people who think she's too influential. Do you think there's any potential downside to her being so front and center on health care? Do you see any?

MR. SHIELDS: Oh, sure. I think it could be a very difficult and delicate political moment for the Clintons when something -- what she's done in this I think has mastered the subject that nobody identified previously. I mean, it's not only a woman I think as much as it is she took the subject, thoroughly emerged herself with it, and became expert on it. I mean, one thought of Hillary Clinton prior to this, and it was children's issues, rather than health. I, I think there could be that difficult political moment, Margaret, when the part that she thinks is non-negotiable. Bill Clinton says that's the only way we can get it through Finance, Senate Finance, is if we drop this. I think there could tensions at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, but I don't know -- I don't know if a strong woman represents somehow an erosion of confidence in a strong male leader anymore.

MS. O'BEIRNE: There's a real risk involved here though. They have really overpromised. It's just --

MS. WARNER: You're talking about another substance of health care.

MS. O'BEIRNE: Yes. It's just not going to -- but her credibility is very much on the line because she's so up front. It is not going to be easy by any means, and many people think not at all possible, to deliver on what they have promised, and they'd better get it right. Congress is still scarred from the experience with the catastrophic health insurance debacle where within a year the law had to be repealed. Every single American cares about this one. Her credibility is very much on the line, and she has reassured all of us it's doable. There's a real down side.

MR. SHIELDS: Let me just take issue with one thing that Kate said earlier, and that was we would have had this two years earlier. We wouldn't. I think because it required presidential leadership. There wasn't any presidential leadership on this issue for 12 years.

MS. O'BEIRNE: But as you know, it's clearly an issue that faced the Democrats. People trusted the Democrats to fix health care.

MR. SHIELDS: Yes.

MS. O'BEIRNE: If the Democrats agreed on how to fix it, it would have loved to have passed a bill and made George Bush --

MR. SHIELDS: It made George --

MS. O'BEIRNE: It would have been a great issue, but among the Democrats there is no agreement.

MR. SHIELDS: They had, they had only the experience of one special Senate election in Pennsylvania, that when Harris Wofford upset Dick Thornburgh, that kind of confirmed that, and then it was validated I think in part -- you can make the case it was validated by Bill Clinton's 1992 victory after his expropriation of Bob Kerrey's issue of health care.

MS. WARNER: It still looked at least to the average viewer watching television this week as if there's still this sort of honeymoon on health care on the Hill. And maybe it's because the Republicans don't yet know where they're going. Do you think it's - - we're still in a honeymoon phase. How long can it last? Where's the political battle going from here? Mark, what do you think?

MR. SHIELDS: I think the price tag, obviously, how it's going to be paid for, I mean, the questions about health care are questions that are going to be solved at the breakfast table and the dining room table. It's people sitting down saying, how much is this going to cost, what are the benefits, if I lose my job is it going to be there, if our child gets sick are they going to take away my policy, where do I have to go to get it, how can I get in or out? Those are the questions that are finally and ultimately going to resolve whether the plan is accepted, passed, or, or thrilled and cheered by the American people. So I think we haven't got to that. We're still, we're still in the case of, you're right, the honeymoon.

MS. WARNER: But, Kate, I think if four years ago we'd sat around here saying that the Republicans would have bought onto this basic idea we wouldn't have believed it. I mean, suggesting that the debate has moved dramatically --

MS. O'BEIRNE: With the understanding now, the consensus that something clearly has to be done, some conservatives and some Republicans were working three, four, and five years ago. But they still have the Bush legacy to come out from under. I mean, they're vulnerable too. Where have you been for 12 years? And they have to overcome that. They have perfectly legitimate ideas. In fact, in many respects, they have some better ideas, but George Bush's position on health care was the equivalent of take two aspirin and call me in the morning.

MS. WARNER: So what do you think the Republican strategy is going to be?

MS. O'BEIRNE: It hasn't emerged yet. I guess, Margaret, there are going to be so many different political battles within the beltway. The major battle is over the numbers. Do they add up? An awful lot of people don't think they do. There are going to be battles and discussions as members go back home. It's an issue that the American public really is not giving a lot of guidance on. Happily, we are finally engaging. It will be a wonderful debate because we're talking about big things. The role of government is an issue that every American cares about. Among Republicans, they're going to have to decide. Do we do a bipartisan version of socialized medicine? Do we strike out on a totally different vision? It's going to be a terrific overdue because of the critical issues involved, discussion. And we're in the very early stages.

MS. WARNER: Unless you want to add something, I'd love to shift to another top, something else that happened this week. A major political figure -- not political figure, public figure, Gen. Colin Powell, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, retired. And immediately the political speculation began. Your friend and mine, Al Hunt, wrote in the Wall Street Journal sort of open strategy to Gen. Powell. Do you both think he's that great a political catch, and if so, if he wants a political future, how should he go about it?

MR. SHIELDS: Well, I think he is a great political threat. He's obviously the most popular military figure since Eisenhower. He has, he has symbolized the, this temporary or partial solution of the racial divide in this country, the military, which has a long and unspectacular tradition in racial matters, has led the nation. They showed under Colin Powell's leadership that a policy of no preference, no discrimination works where blacks are promoted on the basis of performance, and merit, and encouraged, and so he brings one, the first clear cut American military victory since 1945, and so he brings in a great American success story that all Americans could identify with. He's a black leader that an overwhelming majority of whites are very comfortable with.

MS. WARNER: And should he make the leap,the political --

MR. SHIELDS: Well, I mean, as one Republican friend of mine said today on his politics, his policy is, don't ask, don't tell. I mean, we don't know if he's a Republican or a Democrat. I don't know. I think we've got to find that out first.

MS. O'BEIRNE: We like our American heroes. We always have. He clearly -- the American public is probably interested either -- he's clearly a series date. Whether or not it will go beyond that, because they've already made their mind up about really the critically important things. They trust this man. They like this man. Whether they're right or not, they think they know what metal this man is made of. That's the hard stuff when you're running for President, and he's firmly established within the complicated things, will there be an open field for him, and where is his political base, never run for office before, I mean, but yeah, I think he's a prospect on the horizon.

MS. WARNER: Finally, another political figure had a bad week. Kay Bailey Hutchison, who had won Lloyd Bentsen's Senate seat as a Republican in Texas has been indicted. What is the impact on the Republican Party, briefly?

MR. SHIELDS: The Republicans looked upon this. Kay Bailey Hutchison won last June, 16 weeks ago, she won, the first Republican woman ever elected to the Senate from Texas, the first Republican woman ever elected to the state legislature from Texas in 1972, a career in the making, won two to one, carried 215 of the 254 counties, was golden, was the answer to the Democrats' year of the woman. I mean, she was the GOP poster girl, and then this week out of nowhere she gets indicted, and the Republicans look like they've seen this movie before, Margaret. It isn't the charges against her. It is the alleged coverup and the coverup --

MS. WARNER: Let me give Kate a quick second because we have to go.

MR. SHIELDS: Sure.

MS. O'BEIRNE: Well, because she, of course, had a landslide last year. And they have to go after her. Last June, her landslide --

MR. SHIELDS: That's untrue. That's untrue.

MS. O'BEIRNE: She only brought down one Democrat. If she repeats it next November, she could bring down a lot more. Landslide Lyndon has given away to Landslide Lady, and I think it's politics as usual in Texas, and they've got it --

MS. WARNER: I'm afraid we're going to have to go as usual.

MR. SHIELDS: Nine of the witnesses against her are Republicans, of the ten.

MS. O'BEIRNE: They weren't on the grand jury, Mark. They were all Democrats on the grand jury.

MR. SHIELDS: The foreman of the grand jury was a Republican candidate for sheriff.

MS. O'BEIRNE: Ten out of twelve were Democrats.

MS. WARNER: Got to go. Good night, Robin. That's the NewsHour for tonight. RECAP

MR. MacNeil: Before we go, the major stories of this Friday, 43 nations pledged $2 billion for Palestinian self-rule, 500 million of that aid will come from the United States. Israel and Jordan agreed to form a joint committee on economic and environmental matters. In an exclusive interview with the NewsHour, Syrian President Assad said he would only consider recognizing Israel if it withdraws from all occupied Arab lands. The death toll from yesterday's earthquake in India rose to 21,000. And in this country the government's main gage of future economic activity posted its strongest gain of the year. Good night, Margaret.

MS. WARNER: I'll say good night again, Robin. That is the NewsHour for tonight. I'm Margaret Warner, and we'll see you on Monday. Good night.ENGLISHMACLEH1993