The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

MR. LEHRER: Good evening. Leading the news this Thursday, the U.S. and Iran exchange charges at the UN over the airliner downing, President Reagan visited the drought areas of the Midwest, and major banks raised their prime lending rate. We'll have the details in our News Summary in a moment. Robin.

MR. MacNeil: After the News Summary, we focus first on Iran versus the U.S. at the United Nations with excerpts from Iran's charge and Vice President Bush's reply, next a documentary report from the Midwest on the drought and government programs for farmers, then a NewsMaker Interview with Richard Thorburgh, the New Attorney General-Designate. Finally, Judy Woodruff reports on the Midas touch of the man who has filled the Dukakis campaign war chest. NEWS SUMMARY

MR. MacNeil: Vice President George Bush traded charges with Iran as the UN Security Council opened debate on the shooting down of an Iranian airliner by the U.S. cruiser Vincennes killing 290 people. Iran's foreign minister, Ali-Akbar Velayati called it the most inhuman military attack in the history of civil aviation and said it was premeditated. Making an unusual appearance to speak for the United States, Vice President Bush called it a terrible human tragedy but said Iran shared responsibility because it let a civilian aircraft fly over a war ship engaged in battle.

ALI-AKBAR VELAYATI [Iranian Foreign Minister] [Speaking Through Translator]: This was a terribly coward misjudgment on the part of USS Vincennes, which is in turn the result of an arrogance and aggressive policy. All available evidence suggests that the shooting down of an Iranian civil airliner flying on a scheduled flight known to the U.S. warships and using an internationally established and published civilian airway and transmitting the signals identifying itself as a civilian airliner could not have been a mistake.

VICE PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH [GOP Presidential Candidate]: One this is clear, and that is that the USS Vincennes acted in self- defense. I am not going to dignify with a response the charge that we deliberately destroyed Iran Air 655. I honestly feel that Iran knows better.

MR. MacNeil: Iran asked the Security Council to condemn the U.S. action. Bush called on Iran to accept an immediate cease-fire in its eight year old war with Iraq. We'll have further coverage of the speeches after this News Summary. Jim. DROUGHT DAMAGE

MR. LEHRER: President Reagan went to drought country today. He inspected parched farm land by helicopter in Illinois and Iowa and toured one Southern Illinois soybean field on foot. He also got a first hand look at stunted corn stalks that barely reached his waste. By this time of year, they would normally be about eight feet tall. After the tour, President Reagan told local farmers the situation on the ground was as bad as he expected.

PRESIDENT REAGAN: What I saw was not a pretty sight, stunted corn, sparse bean fields, withered plants starved for water, struggling to push their way up, and we can't make it rain, but we can help to ease the pain. And that's what the federal government will do. I'm calling today for Congress to act quickly on comprehensive drought relief, disaster relief for all farmers, for all crops, including appropriate forgiveness of advanced deficiency payments and relief for all non-program crops. I'm also directing Secretary Lyng to lead a fact finding team which will visit places around the country that are suffering from the drought.

MR. LEHRER: Back in Washington, the Senate Agriculture Committee approved a drought relief bill that would make payments of up to $100,000 to farmers whose crops have been destroyed by the drought. But the National Weather Service had more bad news for the drought areas. Its new forecast for the next thirty days and for the next three months held out little hope for relief.

MR. MacNeil: Major banks raised the prime lending rate from 9 to 9 1/2 percent, the highest in more than two years, and the second increase this year. The increase had been expected because the banks' cost of borrowing had been rising. It came the day after Federal Reserve Board Chairman Alan Greenspan warned that the Fed would move to tighten credit if inflation started to accelerate. Today's increase will affect many loans for consumers. The government announced that retail sales rose 1/2 percent in June, reflecting strong auto sales and department store buying related to the hot weather.

MR. LEHRER: Representatives of the United States and Nicaragua went after it today before the Organization of American States. The special OAS session in Washington was called by Nicaragua, which expelled the U.S. Ambassador and seven of his aides. That led to a tit for tat reaction by the United States, which ordered the Nicaraguan Ambassador and seven of his staff members out of this country. The Nicaraguan Ambassador, Carlos Tunnermann, is also his country's representative to the OAS and said his expulsion would violate that organization's charter.

CARLOS TUNNERMANN [Nicaraguan Ambassador] [Speaking Through Translator]: The sovereign prerogative of the member states of the OAS to designate their representatives to their regional organization would in this way be turned over to the United States, so that this forum would have to become for a fact a sort of club of friends of the government of the present Administration of the United States from which any permanent representative or any diplomat could be expelled at the will of the host country.

RICHARD McCORMACK [U.S. Ambassador to O.A.S.]: The Organization of American States can take pride in the fact that the United States has never before had any reason to use its legal authority to take actions against diplomats accredited to the OAS for abuse of their privilege of residence in the United States. Nevertheless, in the rare cases of those who do abuse their privileges of residence, the United States has the legal authority to protect its sovereignty and inherent rights as host country by taking appropriate action.

MR. LEHRER: The U.S. House of Representatives passed a resolution today condemning the Sandinista Government of Nicaragua. It accused the Sandinistas of brutal suppression of its political opposition. The vote was 385 to 18. It stopped short of one passed by a similar overwhelming margin in the Senate yesterday. The Senate's threatened to resume military aid to the Contra rebels. Both resolutions were prompted by the expulsion of U.S. diplomats and the closing down of opposition newspapers and radio stations and the jailing of opposition leaders.

MR. MacNeil: Jesse Jackson today asked former President Jimmy Carter to mediate him and the party's new standard bearer, Michael Dukakis. Jackson, still smarting from the manor of his rejection as the Vice Presidential candidate, got a sympathetic pat from the Republican candidate, George Bush, who said he thought Dukakis could have shown a little more in terms of sensitivity towards Jackson when he selected Texas Senator Lloyd Bentsen. Today Jackson said Jimmy Carter understands the equation, adding, "I simply want the respect and responsibility." He also said he hadn't yet decided whether he would challenge Dukakis at the Democratic Convention in Atlanta next week.

MR. LEHRER: And finally there's the boy aviator story. His name is Christopher Lee Marshall of Oceana, California. This morning, he landed his plane at Le Borge Airport outside Paris after having flown it from New York City. He is 11 years old, which makes him the youngest pilot to have flown the Atlantic. He made stops in Canada, Greenland, Iceland, and Scotland, along the way, and a 46 year old retired Navy pilot was with him.

MR. MacNeil: That's our summary of the news. Now it's on to the UN debate on the Iranian airliner, federal aid for drought- stricken farmers, the new Attorney General, and the Dukakis fund- raiser. FOCUS - WAR OF WORDS

MR. MacNeil: Our first focus is the United Nations Security Council debate on the shooting down of the Iranian airliner by the US cruiser Vincennes at the cost of 290 lives. The first day of the debate was unusual, because Vice President and Presidential Candidate George Bush turned up to speak for the United States. We have extended excerpts from his speech and from that of Iranian Foreign Minister Ali-Akbar Velayati, who spoke first.

ALI-AKBAR VELAYATI [Iranian Foreign Minister] [Speaking Through Translator]: Mr. President, allow me at the outset to pay tribute to the everlasting memories of the 290 innocent victims of the most inhuman military attack in the history of civil aviation. Surely, this is an outrageous and clear illustration of moral bankruptcy of policy makers in Washington. This was a terribly coward misjudgment on the part of USS Vincennes, which is incurring the result of an arrogant and aggressive policy. Furthermore, all available evidence suggests that the shooting down of an Iranian civil airliner flying on a scheduled flight known to the U.S. warships and using an internationally established and published civilian airway and transmitting the signals identifying itself as a civilian airliner could not have been a mistake. Certainly the huge difference in appearance, size, weight, and flight pattern between an Airbus and those of an F-14, which is almost a fourth of the former, would make any claim of mistaken identity absurd. Even if one accepts the American contention that this was an accident, it will not reduce the heavy responsibility of the United States. Clearly, in granting such broad authorizations to the American Naval officers in the Persian Gulf, and considering the volatile situation there caused by their own presence, the American policy makers were absolutely aware of the inevitability of such tragedies and did nothing to prevent it. Let us for the sake of argument take the Americans' story at face value. If the most sophisticated American warship in the Persian Gulf allegedly failed to distinguish between an Airbus and a F-14, the question that needs to be asked here is whether one should not expect more severe incidents caused by other less sophisticated U.S. warships in the area when the most sophisticated U.S. warship panics over the remote possibility of the existence of an F-14 which in any case, as we discussed, could not pose a serious threat to a surface target, and goes on a shooting spree against an unidentified target. Should we not expect less sophisticated warships to mistake commercial jets smaller than the Airbus for fighter jets probably larger than F-14's? Are we not simply waiting for more tragedies to happen and more innocent lives to be lost? None of the principles and rules of international war can in any way justify the illegal and forceful action of the American forces in the region unless we accept that in our world today the international relations are based upon force and that the law of [the] jungle regulates the relations between the bigger and smaller nations. Mr. President, it is time that the Security Council takes a more serious and objective look at this grave threat to international peace and security, and compels the United States and other foreign forces to leave the Persian Gulf. Anything less would be a further evasion of responsibility by the Security Council, an invasion of responsibility which cannot be forgiven under the present circumstances and after the tragic massacre of innocent passengers of Iran Air Flight 655 last week.

MR. MacNeil: Vice President Bush, once this country's United Nations Ambassador spoke next. He said President Reagan had asked him to come because of the importance of the issues at stake, not only the airliner incident, but the ongoing Iran/Iraq War. These are excerpts from his speech.

VICE PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH [GOP Presidential Candidate]: The victims of Iran 655 are only the most recent casualties of a brutal and a senseless war that has brought immense pain and suffering to the people of both sides. Iran long ago could have accepted and can still accept an honorable end to the war. As for this matter at hand, the destruction of Iran 655, many of the circumstances do remain unclear. Our own military investigation is underway and we'll cooperate with any investigation that is conducted by ICAO, and we trust that the Government of Iran will do the same thing. And we want all the relevant facts to be brought to light as quickly as quickly as possible. And for those of you familiar with our system, you know that they will be brought to light as quickly as possible. One thing is clear, and that is that the USS Vincennes acted in self-defense. This tragic accident occurred against a backdrop of repeated, unjustified, unprovoked, and unlawful Iranian attacks against U.S. merchant shipping and armed forces, beginning with a mine attack on the USS Bridgeton in July of 1987. And it occurred in the midst of a Naval attack initiated by Iranian vessels against a neutral vessel and subsequently, against the Vincennes when she came to the aid of the innocent ship in distress. Despite these hostilities, Iranian authorities failed to divert Iran Air 655 from this combat area and they allowed a civilian aircraft, loaded with passengers, to proceed on a path over a warship engaged in active battle. That was irresponsible and a tragic error. There are three ways for Iran to avoid future tragedies, keep airliners away from combat, or better still, stop attacking innocent ships or better still, the best way is peace. The Security Council offers the best hope of peace right now. The information available to Captain Rogers, the Captain of the Vincennes, indicated that an Iranian military aircraft was approaching his ship with hostile intentions and after seven -- I want the Council to be sure to understand this -- seven unanswered warnings, the Captain did what he had to do to protect his ship and the lives of the crew. And as a military commander, his first duty and responsibility is to protect his men, his ship, and he did so. The wild allegations by the Iran side that the attack on this airliner was premeditated is offensive and it is absurd. The United States has never wilfully acted to endanger innocent civilians, nor will it ever contrast this, if you will, with the wilful detention of inhuman conditions of Americans and others held hostage against their will. One course is civilized and the other barbaric. I'm not going to dignify with a response the charge that we deliberately destroyed Iran Air 655. I honestly feel that Iran knows better. The foreign minister knows that this tragedy was an accident. He also knows that by allowing a civilian airliner to fly into an area of an engagement between Iranian warships and U.S. forces in the Gulf, Iran too must bear a substantial measure of responsibility for what has happened. Look, Mr. President, the terrible disaster of Iran Air 655 fills our hearts with sorrow, American hearts, hearts of the 14 countries around this table. I'm sitting next to the distinguished representative from Yugoslavia, six of his countrymen killed in this. Of course, we feel badly about it, of course, we have compassion, of course, we care. Our reaction to this tragedy transcends political differences and boundaries. As Americans, we share. You can't be an American if you don't share the grief of the families of the victims, whatever their nationality, and that includes the innocent citizens from the Islamic Republic. It's that strongly felt sense of common humanity that has led our government to decide that the United States will provide voluntary exgratia compensation to the families of those who died in that crash, prompt reaction from a President and a country that feels something deeply, feels a compassion for those that innocently lost their lives. And we make this offer strictly as a humanitarian gesture, not as a matter of legal obligation, but out of a sense of moral compassion, reflecting the value that we, sir, place on human life. We hope that compensation will ease the pain a little bit of those who have suffered a loss, even as we recognize that there's nothing that we can do, there's nothing that we can say ever to bring back the loved ones to the families. In the case of Iranian victims, we will take appropriate measures to ensure that the money flows directly to the families and not to the government, we'll provide none of these funds to the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Indeed, we will provide no compensation until mechanisms are in place to ensure that the money goes where it should, to the families of the victim. Mr. President, the time has come, indeed, the time is long past for us to rededicate ourselves to the cause of peace. The Iran air tragedy should reinforce our determination to act. It should remind those who would prefer to ignore the human cost of the Iran/Iraq War and the threat it poses to the security of the Persian Gulf those who find reasons to delay rather than reasons to act for peace that their complacency carries a heavy price. We, my country, the United States of America, have one overreaching, over-arching goal in the Persian Gulf, and that goal is peace. And peace means cessation of the killing. And peace means a definitive end to the war. And peace means total freedom of passage through the straits, total freedom of ships to sail without risk in international waters. And peace also means nations living without fear of threats or intimidations from their neighbors.

MR. MacNeil: The Council adjourned after Bush spoke, and debate is due to be resumed tomorrow. In Montreal, the governing council of ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organization, agreed to investigate the incident.

MR. LEHRER: Still to come on the Newshour tonight, a drought report from Dawson, Minnesota, the new Attorney General, and Michael Dukakis's money man. FOCUS - MOTHER NATURE & UNCLE SAM

MR. LEHRER: On a day President Reagan spent in drought country, we have a report on some relevant family ties, those between Mother Nature and Uncle Sam. When the weather makes things tough on American farmers, the government pays. In fact, the U.S. Government pays about one of every three dollars spent on the nation's farm economy, for a total last year of $17 billion. Our report is from the Midwestern farm country. It's by Fred Sam Lazaro of public station KTCA, Minneapolis-St. Paul.

FRED SAM LAZARO [KTCA]: It's a typical 1988 afternoon in Dawson, Minnesota, a small town in the heart of Western Minnesota farm country. On Dawson's Main Street, there are still signs of optimism, despite the scorching drought. These young anglers still go fishing and the loud speakers atop each building blare out an elevator music version of Singing in the Rain. Inside the Farmer's Wife Cafe there is worry.

PHILIP GRESETH [Dawson, Minnesota]: [Speaking in Norwegian] - - What I said was it's very dry and it would have been very nice if we could have had a good rain.

MR. LAZARO: To an outsider trying to find out how the drought is affecting individuals in the agricultural business here, the English sometimes needs as much explanation as the Norwegian.

DuWAYNE SWENSON [Farmer]: We seed the oats in diverted acres and we put them in the silo which will help the roughage program, we'll buy kale again this fall, and I put up the CRP acres last week, bale them.

DAVID WINGE [Farmer]: I have some 1985 corn in the bin. And I think, in this area I think we, I think the national average release is 3.03, and it hit that last week, so I could go buy back my corn for 2.70 to 2.75 approximately.

DALE TUFTO [Farmer]: Could plant your corn I guess and lock in the price of about 3.03 per bushel if you went in the program, but then you had to divert 20 percent, and if you sat down and figured out the basics, I guess it looked like quite a risk for me. That's why I went into this 092.

MR. LAZARO: Like Dale Tufto there's hardly a farmer in Dawson who doesn't talk in terminology like 092, diverted acres or CRP acres. They are talking about an array of government agriculture programs that profoundly affects the daily lives of virtually everyone here.

TOM COLLINS: It's really been about the only show in town.

MR. LAZARO: Tom Collins manages the farmers coop elevator in Dawson where over a million bushels of grain is stored. Until this year, Collins' elevator had been filled to capacity, almost entirely with grain the federal government purchased from farmers, this to prevent it from reaching an already flooded market.

TOM COLLINS [Grain Elevator Operator]: It's been a life saver for us really. You're talking about $300,000 or more a year, and for us, that's very necessary.

MR. LAZARO: The stockpiles of government grain have begun to disappear, as have the memory of bountiful harvests. They were bad news until this year, because abundant grain supplies depress prices. Chock full elevators symbolized government's attempt to put grain out of circulation. But a much larger government effort has been in keeping grain from being produced in the first place.

SUNG WON SOHN [Economist]: Uncle Sam actually pays farmers to let their lands idle.

MR. LAZARO: Sung Won Sohn is a Senior Vice President of the Minneapolis-based Norwest Corporation, a banking firm with large agriculture interests.

SUNG WON SOHN: If we add all the land in the United States set aside by government programs, that is 79 million acres, that is equivalent to the entire State of Nebraska, plus half of Kansas. So that you can see it is a very significant program.

MR. LAZARO: In Dawson, Dale Tufto opted early this year not to farm on about half his 500 acres, land on which he'd normally plant corn. Under a government program called 092, he'll receive a check for 92 percent of what those crops would have fetched. That's excellent yield this year.

DALE TUFTO: I didn't have the cash outlay in the spring, and definitely the way it looks now today, when we're talking here, why crops are burning up I guess and the local county agent over in the county, in Chippewa County, he said that it was two-thirds to three-fourths disaster.

MR. LAZARO: But crop disasters do not necessarily mean financial disasters for farmers who chose not to enter the 092 program this year, especially if they are large operators who can benefit from economies of scale. DuWayne Swenson is one of Dawson's biggest, most profitable farmers, with 500 head of cattle, 140 high quality sheep, and 1100 acres. He says he's confident he'll emerge unscathed after the season.

DuWAYNE SWENSON [Farmer]: My basic philosophy in my operation is to raise a crop, feed it to livestock, and sell it the next year, so that if I had a poor crop this year, I'm reaping, actually living off last year's crop basically.

MR. LAZARO: And Swenson says last year's crop was a good one, large enough to easily cushion the blow from a poor harvest this year. Swenson has also taken advantage of various federal programs. Under one, he's exercised an option to buy back grain he sold the government in past years at lower, past year prices. He can sell that same grain on the market today for much more. Under a special exception made this year, the government has also allowed Swenson to harvest hay and oats from lands he idled under conservation and set aside programs. That will mean a little more livestock feed for next year.

MR. SWENSON: I'm a fellow that likes to think for myself and figure out which way I can do the best at. And I am not a big believer in all these programs, but they do help I guess. And if they give it to one, I guess it's free enterprise, so you give it to one, you give it to all.

MR. LAZARO: For Swenson, federal farm programs have made a difference only in the size of his profit. Many other farmers, especially younger and smaller operators, have looked to the federal government for their survival in recent years. They'll do so even more after this year.

DAVID WINGE [Farmer]: It is a welfare check in that sense.

MR. LAZARO: Because market prices for corn and wheat have been far below his cost to grow them, David Winge has relied on the federal farm program to make up the difference. The government has set target prices, fair prices in other words, at which farmers should make a profit. It has then paid farmers the difference between the target and market prices, a subsidy called deficiency payments.

MR. WINGE: My government subsidies are what probably paid my food bills and my clothing bills and the utilities and such.

MR. LAZARO: Unless the laws are changed this year, Winge could find himself without either crop or subsidy. The drought has severely damaged crops. Economist Sohn says this has driven market prices close to target prices, thus greatly reducing the subsidies government owes farmers.

SUNG WON SOHN [Economist]: Uncle Sam paid out 40 percent of the anticipated deficiency payment early, so that is already in the pocket books of farmers. Well, theoretically, since the difference between target and market price has probably disappeared, farmers should be sending their checks back to Washington, but obviously, that is not going to happen. To me, Washington will come up with some kind of a program to help out the farmers.

MR. LAZARO: Under an emergency farm aid bill now being considered in Congress, grain farmers suffering crop losses will receive up to 2/3 of their normal deficiency payments. Livestock farmers will get subsidies from the government to help purchase feed which has skyrocketed in price. David Winge says relief measures are fine but don't take the place of a good crop either in dollars or personal job satisfaction.

MR. WINGE: We don't necessarily feel the effects of the drought this year, other than the fact that it hurts to watch our crops drying up. What will happen is basically it will be I and my neighbor and the people in town will feel the effects of the drought this winter and next summer, because people will just tighten up their purse strings and not spend asmuch.

MR. LAZARO: That's a phenomenon that people in Dawson say has already begun. Jerome Breberg opened this implement dealership 21 years ago. There were five competitors then. Today he's Dawson's only surviving dealer. But business is down to a fifth of last year's volume. If it continues, Breberg says he'll close his doors by next spring.

JEROME BREBERG [Farm Implement Dealer]: Our overhead, it's a fixed cost whether we sell anything or not, about 30,000 a month, and we can't take out insurance, you know, for drought or disaster of any kind. I mean, we're just strictly depending on agriculture. We've got to depend on the trickling down from the farmer, whatever they get. And if they get just enough to exist, it isn't going to do us much good. I mean, that's the whole thing.

SHERILYN BATES [Appliance Store Owner]: When we come to work, we look at the crops as if they're our own, because that's where our business comes from is the farmers that are around us.

MR. LAZARO: Along with her husband, Sherilyn Bates runs a hardware store in Dawson. She says caution is the by-word for business operators on Main Street.

SHERILYN BATES: We're just going to have to order day to day or week to week just what we think we're going to need to sell and not anything extra, you know. But many of the things that I sell anyway people will wait for. They will wait for a washer and dryer if they need one. So we don't have to stock as many. That's one of the attributes of a country small town person; they're patient.

MR. LAZARO: That's not surprising for a community that's forced to depend on Mother Nature and Uncle Sam for its well being. There's also time here to step back and take a philosophical look at this year's drought. Some here say there are lessons to be learned from it, especially for those who don't live here.

ANNABEL GRESETH [Dawson, Minnesota]: Maybe for the first time people who live in cities will realize that food does not come in those boxes in the store, it has to be raised somewhere, and it takes water to do that.

MR. LAZARO: For others, the drought is not the worst Dawson has seen and come through.

HENRY SOMMERFELD [Retired Farmer]: In the 30's, you know, we had a big drought in '32, and about a half crop in '33, and nothing in '34, and I didn't get much in '35 either because I had the wrong kind of wheat --

MR. LAZARO: Was Uncle Sam more generous then? Is he a lot more generous now?

MR. SOMMERFELD: More generous now, I would say, a lot more.

MR. LAZARO: How so?

MR. SOMMERFELD: Well, on the average, if you weren't going to get anything, you had to work for it, like WPA or something like that. And now you get your cash and do what you want with it, you don't have to do anything for it.

MR. LAZARO: For farmers at the receiving end of what the old timers consider unsavory handouts, there's been time to ponder the contradiction of living as much from subsidy to subsidy as from crop to crop.

MR. WINGE: Well, the United States has basically had a cheap food policy for years and I guess that I just feel that you're buying it for less in the grocery store and you end up paying for it in your taxes. And maybe if the government hadn't structured it so and let it run more naturally, maybe I wouldn't be being subsidized by the government and maybe you'd just be paying 50 cents more a pound for your meat and paying a little less taxes.

MR. LAZARO: For now though, farmers, economists and politicians alike say until the rains hit thirsty farm land here, it won't be a case of either taxes or higher grocery prices but both. NEWS MAKER INTERVIEW

MR. MacNeil: Next tonight we have a NewsMaker Interview with Richard Thornburgh, President Reagan's nominee to follow Edwin Meese as Attorney General. Easy Senate approval is expected for Thornburgh, former two term Governor of Pennsylvania, currently Director of the Institute of Politics at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University. He previously served as a U.S. Attorney and an Assistant Attorney General under Gerald Ford. Gov. Thornburgh joins us tonight from public station WGBH in Boston. Governor, thank you for joining us.

RICHARD THORNBURGH [Attorney General-Designate]: Glad to be here, Robin.

MR. MacNeil: You said you're going to be looking into morale at Justice. Do you agree there is a morale problem?

GOV. THORNBURGH: Well, I can't really speak to that at this point, because I haven't had a chance to visit and confer with the top people in the Department. There have obviously been a lot of pressures exerted on the Department and a great many distractions during the last year or so, and I want to make sure that our mission is re-established and the roles of the professionals in the Department are clearly outlined so that we can proceed to the very important task of looking to the protection of what I call the first civil right of every citizen, and that is the right to be free from fear of violent crime in our homes and streets and communities. And the Department can do a great deal in that regard, if we're about our proper mission.

MR. MacNeil: Well, is the problem is very simple? Does the departure of Mr. Meese solve the morale problem? Was his presence and his problems the problem?

GOV. THORNBURGH: I don't know that it's particularly useful to look back on what's occurred during the last year or so. I think it's more important to look forward and chart a course for the Department that ensures that standards of excellent and a commitment to carrying out our mission is the prime thing on people's minds and that's the leadership role and the role that I have to assume.

MR. MacNeil: With many people saying inside the Department and people observing it outside that the morale there is worse than it's ever been or at an all time low, can you really restore it and give with the firm hand on the tiller you've described, give the Department back its sense of mission when everybody knows you're just going to be there a few months and they'll be expecting somebody else to come in the door nine or ten months from now, if not sooner?

GOV. THORNBURGH: Well, in my view, it's not the length of the assignment, it's the nature of the assignment that counts. Law enforcement to me has always been a twenty-four hour a day, seven day a week year round proposition. And I expect to be in a position to hit the ground running. If there is a morale problem, I had to face that before when I came into the criminal division in the post Watergate era in 1975, and I think what's needed is a clear commitment to what the mission of the Department is, to try to rid ourselves of the pressures and distractions that may have deflected the Department from that mission over the last year or so. I'm confident I can do that.

MR. MacNeil: When you came into the Department in the circumstances you describe, you established the public integrity section there. Now the special prosecutor has given his report on Mr. Meese's conduct to the Solicitor General. Has there been a decision yet as to whether there will be a formal review in the Department's professional responsibility section of Mr. Meese's ethical conduct? Has that decision yet been made?

GOV. THORNBURGH: Not so far as I know, but you must understand that at this point I am really not privy to what's going on in the Department. That will have to await my confirmation. I have clearly indicated that whatever evidence is brought to my attention I will see that it's pursued and we go wherever the evidence leads and I certainly would not be proper in pre-judging any case that was now pending before the Department, and I certainly won't do that.

MR. MacNeil: Will you be involved in that decision, assuming your confirmation?

GOV. THORNBURGH: I would expect to be involved in any decision of any magnitude within the Department except those that for technical reasons might not be appropriate. There's always a residue of cases for any prosecutor where some conflict may arise, but in the normal case I intend to be a "hands on" Attorney General and ensure that my folks are exercising the proper kind of discretion with regard to the cases that lie within our jurisdiction.

MR. MacNeil: Well, obviously, this is going to be a big decision. Is that something the Solicitor General and others are going to wait until you are confirmed and they have an Attorney General in place before making, whether to investigate Mr. Meese's --

GOV. THORNBURGH: I really can't answer that question. I would expect that given the opportunity that I expect to utilize over the next couple of weeks to confer with the top people in the Department I'll have a better sense of where those processes are leading.

MR. MacNeil: I'm just wondering, based on your experience back in the 70's, wouldn't it be extremely awkward looking for the Department to have to be formally investigating the ethics of the boss who has just left while you're trying to forget the past and create a new atmosphere?

GOV. THORNBURGH: Investigations of those sorts don't deal in personalities; they deal in evidence. And as I say, you must go where the evidence leads, and that's the only proper criterion to apply for an effective professional prosecutor. I've had a lot of experience in handling tough cases. I'm not afraid of them. I think the challenge that's inherent in being the top law enforcement official in the United States alerts you to the fact that you're going to have to face a tough decision.

MR. MacNeil: In the time left, will your administration of the Department reflect the conservatism of Mr. Meese's time on issues that are sensitive public matters of controversy?

GOV. THORNBURGH: Well, again, I think that obviously every Attorney General has his own style, his own priorities and his own criteria to apply. I don't really want to -- I don't think it's necessary or proper for me to pass judgment on what my predecessor may have done. I look forward to exercising my own experience, my own instincts, my own professional commitment in a way that I did for six years as a courtroom prosecutor and two very difficult and challenging years as head of the criminal division. I expect that that kind of attitude can be transmitted throughout the entire department.

MR. MacNeil: Is that a long about way of saying no?

GOV. THORNBURGH: It's a long about way of saying that I have a record as a prosecutor that I think people can look at and determine how I'm going to perform if I am fortunate enough to be confirmed as Attorney General.

MR. MacNeil: For instance, are you glad that the Solicitor General -- we did a program on this a couple of weeks ago -- that the Solicitor General decided not to file a Justice Department brief inthe Runyan Civil Rights case which the Supreme Court has decided to reopen? Are you happy he decided not to get embroiled in that?

GOV. THORNBURGH: I'm neither happy nor unhappy. Again, without being familiar with the elements of that decision, I can't comment on it. But again, I don't want to leave the impression that I'm trying to dodge any difficult decisions. They go with the job. And sometimes the harder the challenge, the more satisfying the job is, and I have a feeling this is going to be a challenging tenure.

MR. MacNeil: Do you think you will be able to move Congress in the time left available to move the federal judgeship nominations that are stalled there, several dozen of them, and stalled because in many cases of Congressional opposition to the conservative nature of the nominations? Do you think you're going to be able to get some movement on those, or will the nominations be withdrawn, or will we at the end of the Administration see them still stalled there?

GOV. THORNBURGH: I can only convey my attitude. I obviously am not familiar with the array of reasons why a particular judge may not be confirmed. I'm a realistic. I've been part of the political process for the last eight years in a highly partisan state, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, but I hope to be able to reason together with Congressional leaders, particularly those in the Senate, who may have some questions about particular nominees, and resolve those questions so that vacancies in the courts at a time when we're very concerned about crime and the movement, swift movement of cases, both with respect to public interest and the defendant's rights can proceed. But I will approach those on a case by case basis.

MR. MacNeil: Governor, thank you very much for joining us.

GOV. THORNBURGH: Thank you, Robin. FOCUS - '88 - MIKE'S MONEY MAN

MR. LEHRER: Finally tonight the money of politics. It's the story of the Dukakis campaign's remarkable success at raising money, over $20 million in individual contributions during the primary season alone. Judy Woodruff reports on the man behind that success.

DUKAKIS SPOKESMAN: Today is the last day of fund-raising for the Dukakis campaign. We have gone over the top today.

MS. WOODRUFF: The good news was announced at a fund-raising reception in Washington a few weeks ago. The Dukakis organization had raised all the money it legally could raise to pay for the Massachusetts Governor's campaign to win his party's Presidential nomination, a feat no other Democrat this year even came close to, and something Walter Mondale couldn't pull off until after the national convention in 1984.

MICHAEL BERMAN [Mondale Campaign Treasurer]: They're done. I mean it's a phenomenon. I mean, I felt so elated. We paid all our bills ultimately. We were the first to do that. But these folks finished before the campaign's over. I'm envious.

MS. WOODRUFF: Michael Berman should know what the Dukakis people have accomplished. He was Mondale's campaign treasurer four years ago when it was harder for the Democrats to raise money. 1988, however, is different. The Dukakis campaign under the guidance of its treasurer, Robert Farmer, has persuaded a record number, almost a hundred thousand individuals, to contribute money. During the primary season, some $21 million was collected, all of it in checks of $1,000 or less, as required by law.

ROBERT FARMER [Dukakis Campaign Treasurer]: We've got 240 million people in this country and it's the most important decision they make every four years, and I think they care deeply about that decision, and they like to be involved in the process. And most people haven't been involved in the process.

MS. WOODRUFF: Farmer was a millionaire in his thirties thanks to a successful educational publishing business he started in Boston. In 1980, soon after he turned 40, he became fascinated by politics on the Republican side. He raised money for the Presidential campaign of John Anderson that year, then switched parties and offered to raise funds for Dukakis, who at the time was thinking about making a second try for re-election as Governor of Massachusetts. Farmer helped raise almost $2 1/2 million for Dukakis's comeback in 1982, and the two have been fast friends ever since.

MR. FARMER: We have all known a lot of people during the course of our lives. I have never met anybody as impressive as Mike Dukakis.

MS. WOODRUFF: Farmer says he chose the fund-raising side of politics because in his view it has unmistakable goals.

MR. FARMER: At the end of every month, you know if you did a good job or a bad job. There's no hiding behind a rock or anything. I mean, if you run the press operation and you get good stories or bad stories or you run the field organization, you don't know how good a job you're doing until the day of the election or the issues. It's all kind of hard to figure out, but fund-raising, you either do it or you don't do it.

MS. WOODRUFF: What Farmer has done is first of all help build an unprecedented base of financial support for Dukakis in Massachusetts.

MR. FARMER [June 15, 1987] [Addressing Crowd]: My friends, this event is the largest single political Presidential fund- raiser in the history of the Democratic Party.

MS. WOODRUFF: The campaign says one-third of the money it has raised so far has come from the Governor's home state, much of it from people who gave to Dukakis's earlier gubernatorial campaigns. Bill Sweeney is a former Democratic Party official who has studied political fund-raising.

WILLIAM SWEENEY [Campaign Finance Analyst]: If you do not have home state financial support, then you cannot launch a national campaign, because the people who know you best, if they're not there with their checks early in the process, you don't have the resources to then go other places to introduce yourself to the network of contributors as well as voters.

MS. WOODRUFF: Sweeney says another critical element to Dukakis's success was his tie to members of the Greek-American community. The campaign credits them with one of every five dollars that have been raised so far. Bill Sweeney says that is a tremendous advantage for Governor Dukakis.

MR. SWEENEY: He was able to garner the pride of Greek-Americans around the country. For example, because of his involvement with Greek organizations around the country over the 25 years of his public life, he knew Greek entrepreneurs, business leaders, political leaders, in virtually every community in America.

MS. WOODRUFF: On top of the Massachusetts and the Greek-American bases, Farmer has imposed a highly structured fund-raising organization. Expert say Farmer understands that under current campaign finance laws, the emphasis is no longer on big contributors but on talented fund-raisers.

MR. BERMAN: Instead of giving contributions of two and three hundred thousand dollars as you could in the 60's and up to the early 70's, now you have to find people that have the connections and the personality to go out and find, instead of giving a check for $10,000, finding 10 people that will give you $1,000 each, and you keep multiplying that.

MS. WOODRUFF: Whereas Walter Mondale had only about 25 wealthy contributors who belonged to his national finance board, Farmer has created for Dukakis a committee of almost 1,000 people, each one of whom is responsible for raising at least $10,000.

GOV. MADELEINE KUNIN [ (D) Vermont] [Speaking To Farmer]: The Midas touch is for real. I heard from one of your troops, shall we say, foot soldiers out there, got his marching orders to collect a certain amount of money, say boy, those guys are tough, if you don't produce, they get right after you. That's the way you've go to do it. But he was smiling as he said, smiling with admiration.

MS. WOODRUFF: During the primary season, Farmer spent most of his time on the road, trying to persuade people to raise money for Dukakis.

MR. FARMER: What my job is really is to go around to these different cities and sit in a hotel suite and meet one on one with people, maybe six or eight a day, and ask them to raise that $10,000. The secret is to enlist the efforts of as many people of stature and of substance in the communities across country.

MS. WOODRUFF: Tina Manatos is typical of the people Farmer relies on. She and her husband, who was a lobbyist for Greek-American causes, have together been responsible for raising more than $200,000 for Dukakis. Manatos, like a loyal supporter, credits the Governor foremost for having a personal style that makes it easier to raise money for him.

TINA MANATOS [Dukakis Fund-raiser]: He comes across on TV as a very intelligent, confident man, which he is, but his warmth and his humor doesn't come across. He has an incredible memory for faces and names. I have seen him meet people six months later and remember their name and remember details about them, like, gee, did you find your luggage that you lost in the airport. I've done many fund-raisers before and the candidates do appreciate it, but they seem to really appreciate it.

MS. WOODRUFF: Manatos says there are real incentives to raise money for the Dukakis campaign.

TINA MANATOS: I encourage my friends to join me on the Washington Finance Council for Dukakis. If they raise $5,000, they can be on the Washington Finance Council. If they raise $10,000, then they can be on the National Finance Council. If they raise $20,000, you're on the Board of Directors of the National Finance Council. And with each one of those comes invitations to events, mailings from the headquarters, private breakfasts with the Governor in Boston, meetings with the top staff people.

MS. WOODRUFF: Manatos goes further to say the more someone achieves, the more of a role they play in the campaign.

TINA MANATOS: Here I am a housewife from Bethesda, Maryland, who's done some fund-raising and I know all the top people in the campaign. Through my husband's and my work, we are recognized as players in the national Dukakis campaign.

MS. WOODRUFF: Manatos insists she would never try to take advantage of her position, but observers aren't so certain about the motives of other major Dukakis fund-raisers, particularly people whose firms do business with the State of Massachusetts, or executives of New York investment houses with whom the state has floated bonds. Bob Farmer denies anything improper.

MR. FARMER: We have imposed stricter standards on fund-raising than law requires. In the primary season, we took no PAC money, we took no money from registered lobbyists in Massachusetts, tried to be very careful to people who were doing a lot of business with the state. We've tried to run the most pristine, most squeaky clean fund-raising operation, and we've done everything above board. It's undergone a lot of scrutiny.

MS. WOODRUFF: Bill Sweeney says it would be difficult to find an example of a political contribution influencing a Dukakis policy decision.

MR. SWEENEY: The experience of Massachusetts finance people is that it is just as likely to be ruled against you rather than ruled on your favor because of the influence of political money. Michael Dukakis has very strict ethics, has got a 25 year record of living up to them.

MS. WOODRUFF: Experienced observers say what motivates most big fund-raisers is not a desire to get some valuable favor out of the candidate or the government, but what some call the sociability factor.

MR. BERMAN: You can have, you know, two boats and a plane and a car and two houses, being invited to a state dinner is a big deal or being invited to have dinner in the private quarters of the White House is a really big deal or to top it all off, be allowed to stay in the Lincoln bedroom over an evening. I mean, that's the beginning and the end of it. And maybe they get to go to sit in the President's box in the Kennedy Center, all those things, and I think people do enjoy that kind of social prestige, if you will, if those are the things that turn you on.

MS. WOODRUFF: Favors or no favors, veteran Democratic fund-raiser Nathan Landow is troubled by the large amounts of money that are required to run a successful Presidential candidate.

NATHAN LANDOW [Democratic Fund-raiser]: It now takes almost $25 million to win the nomination. It takes 12 million to lose it, and it's been said this cycle, that almost $50 million will be spent amongst all the candidates on media, TV buys. I think contributors get hit up too often for so many candidates, committees, and events. The candidates don't like it, the fund-raisers don't like it. And the contributors don't like it. And I'm not so sure that the voters like it.

MS. WOODRUFF: Michael Berman says as much money as is required, it doesn't bother him.

MR. BERMAN: Pick up Advertising Age for any year you want to and run down the top of the list of the top 10 advertisers and keep going and find out how much more money is spent by McDonald's, the Ford Motor Company, General -- and I'm not picking on them -- there's 10, 15, 20 companies that spend more money advertising in a given year than is spent in the entire Presidential campaign.

MS. WOODRUFF: But they're selling a product.

MR. BERMAN: Sure.

MS. WOODRUFF: We're electing a President.

MR. BERMAN: We're communicating. We're doing exactly the same thing.

MS. WOODRUFF: No one knows how much that communicating costs better than Bob Farmer. Farmer also knows how valuable his efforts are to Governor Dukakis.

MR. FARMER: You get immense satisfaction out of providing the resources, helping to provide the resources to elect the next President of the United States.

MS. WOODRUFF: Farmer makes it clear he wouldn't be averse to accepting a position in a Dukakis Administration if the Governor saw fit to offer him one.

MR. FARMER: If he asked, I would -- you know, you want to make sure he's as a successful President as he can be and if he asks you to play a part in that, you'd obviously do whatever he wanted. RECAP

MR. MacNeil: Once again the main stories in the news today, Iran accused the United States of a premeditated attack in shooting down a civilian airliner killing 290 people, Vice President George Bush called it tragic, but said Iran bore responsibility for sending a civilian plane through a war zone. President Reagan visited the drought areas of the Midwest and major banks raised their prime lending rate 1/2 point to 9 1/2 percent. Good night, Jim.

MR. LEHRER: Good night, Robin. We'll see you tomorrow night. I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank you and good night.