The Robert MacNeil Report

you are right kneeling in it is

good evening for the second day running there was gloomy news on the economy today from washington yesterday the government reported that wholesale prices have risen by one point eight percent last month the sharpest monthly rise in a year today is the monthly figures on employment the unemployment rate rose to eight point six percent of the workforce that haven't fallen for the past four months from the peak of the recession when the rate was nine point two percent last month a further two hundred twenty nine thousand americans became unemployed making a total of eight million people the good news side as it was came in the length of time people remain unemployed in september it was sixteen point two weeks on average last month it dropped for the first time this year a fifteen point four weeks well what do these dry figures really how is the nation going to live with what's coming to look like chronic mass unemployment on a scale only exceeded by the great depression where the administration and congress doing or what should

they be doing for people represented in that figure of eight million unemployed eyewitness living statistics if you like when the chemical is a former art teacher in the new york city school system who's been unemployed since last june she was earning about eleven thousand dollars a year in her last job now she collects ninety five dollars a week in unemployment benefits zhao's body is fifty four years old he got twenty years' experience as a clerk and secretary when he left his last on over a year ago on monday his unemployment benefits ran out so muller so was a new york city policeman until he lost his job last july first is married has one son and in his wife were expecting a second child soon and william conkling forty nine years old married one child is an electrician and has been out of work for fourteen weeks about one and a half weeks less than the national average this month is four people have a lot of questions about the unemployment situation and here with me in washington to grapple those questions are to have congress' top leaders

democrat jim rada texas deputy majority whip of the house and the democratic leadership's number one spokesman on economic affairs and republican john anderson illinois chairman of the influential house republican conference and a member of the gop leadership inner circle burroughs mr conkling very interested to learn exactly why is congress doing to help the unemployed in my particular feel construction what is congress doing why does congress sit back and not help why does not the congress but the construction worker by eliminating to work i was when the art is built the illegal alien was taking jobs away from qualified construction workers men who pay taxes and where the illegal alien has paid under that they'd all of the

books and pays no tax <unk> conkling our restaurant where your parents and efforts there to try and i believe you're an electrician and a building trades as you so painfully or where unemployment is higher than it is in any other segment of society you have maybe twenty percent commission on important building trades enough this is a disgrace particularly in light of the fact that we have a new ticket line item we have construction firms that are paying money on marlon capital and they'd like to get started us what is a weekend in several times in hand on a few of my friend john anderson probably would disagree with me on this i think a public service jobs bill that we passed initially designed to create some four to five hundred thousand new jobs autor been signed but with a week cowherd by another bill which would've produced by the two hundred thousand additional jobs and he signed that we've done the

best we could we tried to override the veto failed by five votes to override ninety two percent of those on my side the democrats voted to override eighty seven percent of those on the friend john anderson said republicans voted not overwrite second thing we did was a housing bill that would increase fuel and those in the construction trades certain that housing bill was designed to put employment opportunities together in private industry for some five to six hundred thousand additional americans were that there would be we tried to override that we did pass a secondary goal which all but psalm one hundred and forty thousand were the best we've been able to do but that still isn't enough i went back to the illegal alien already identified him we've already made an illegal we are not responsible agents for enforcing the law there may be some things that could be done to make it more difficult for him to our four years its subterranean employer to evade

the law and if those things can be done they'll be done beyond that i'd just like to say that i think america is rich enough that it ought to be able to provide a job for everybody mr anderson i was like you're just very brief revival a colleague in the congress must write a set because it seems to me that he suggested that the principal onus of for unemployment in the building trades rest with the president because of sort of certain vetoes that he's exercised on some bills that were passed by the house of representatives and the senate of course as a matter of fact almost right have said that these bills were going to produce two hundred thousand jobs and four hundred thousand jobs and saw we have no real way of knowing whether or not both jobs would be made available at least within the time period that would put you mr conkling back to work and the reason the president veto those bills was his concern about the federal budget deficit in excess the sheer of seventy billion dollars

and with inflation and with it the kind of interest rates that mean that the average person that they want to hold a mortgage is paying about nine percent and this i think is one of the reasons why we have a slowdown in construction why we haven't had the kind of revival in the building industry that there we would like to see that would put you a man like you back to work is that we've had double digit inflation and as a result we've had high interest rates and we haven't had that kind of activity in the building industry that would generate job so i think that really is a much fairer approach to this problem is just to say that difficult as it is i think for a time we have to exercise a kind of fiscal discipline and rich right that will get the economy back on the track again into an an inflationary posture or interest rates will come down as high interest rates are components of them inflation or the question about that it owes interest it's down and then i think we'll have that kind of activity in the private sector in and construction that will put you and thousands like him back to work gary

you old love you mentioned the problem for the ny daily there should be a third cd or michael brown ford or one of his top economic advisors mr cochran's question and others to follow should be directed to them as well but they do the president understandably nor any of these people are so understandably would be honest about it but because of the administration's position isn't such a crucial ingredient as calm as bananas that was just set in the sport next week it would take a few moments to review it before proceeding further on today's new unemployment figures we've seen in the president's chief economic and expressed concern that said quote we think at the present time that were doing what can be reasonably done to reduce unemployment without increasing the risk of inflation this follows the administration's position that a relatively high unemployment rate is the price that must be paid to fight inflation martin ford himself has been asked about this in past months and news conferences and we pieced together this quick compilation of his remarks

you paint a pretty bleak picture of the economy just what the american people expect in the months ahead hard while unemployment will and how some were medicines are taking oh you got a variety of answers as to why how high unemployment will go about her you can take one figure of seven point five percent some say over eight percent either figure is too high and my program if implemented by the congress will remedy the situation now it seems to me that by the late summer we ought to see a turnaround for long as to economic data tiffany and i hope better month in the unemployment rate

think there will be an improvement for the end of this year and certainly in the beginning of next year and the unemployment and i'm on the other hand we think it's wise at this time to pay prepare for any adverse three of the aisle nine percent to get the young people properly employed in our economy is there have a healthy economy not a government dominated economy i think we're in the process of coming out of a recession i'm optimistic in the future and one way and the third fourth quarters of this year have the success that i think we're going to have some of the problems well the answer that you have right now you bring down the inflation we may have to stop for

a for a short period of time higher unemployment than we like but i'm convinced that with the policies were pursuing we can gradually increase employment and gradually decrease unemployment and i'm glad to indicate that in the last two months according to the statisticians we've had an increase of about five hundred and fifty thousand more people gainfully employed this is a good friend and i think you're going to see an increasing and i hope and the process that will go down from the nine point two percent unemployment and then in one of his most recent statements on a part of the tenth most of ford said we are making headway in a good many areas in trying to eliminate unemployment we believe that there will be a continuing downtrend in the unemployment rate between now and the end of the calendar year nineteen seventy six it won't be as well as we want but it will be going down and furthermore will be making a continuous

improvement in the rate of inflation in one respect today's figures do not support within the administration's been emphasizing that the high number of unemployed have to be seen in the perspective of steadily rising employment last month there were scarcely any change on that front the number of americans and board remained at five point four million about the same as in september so the president accepts that such unemployment figures may last for another year in a moment how does the country live with that living statistics in iraq is to

make code do you hold the federal government responsible for your not having a job i think they have a large part of what is happening are the unfortunate situation that i think is that they are talking about statistics whereas we are people we may be part of that but we're living and breathing and right now i don't believe the statistics and i think a great many people don't believe that those unemployment statistics don't include all the people who don't qualify for unemployment with unemployment insurance has run out so the statistics are really quite heart i'm i really want to know what's going to happen when my unemployment insurance runs out what mit did just going to do art mr martin all the federal government responsible for this is something you do yes now your case is a little bit different since your new york city policeman and policemen hadn't been laid off so in every city and states do you think the federal government has a responsibility in your case as evelyn until chris darden the year the question no one study comp was low now and i don't foresee any national depression

we're we do have three thousand workplace options now president ford at beginnings to say it is primary concern was with warm water and was sort of well someone will like president nixon we're going out a lot because i'm asked to a bar and then six percent and listen to turn around they'll promise that the reason why housing and i can see that would kill more cops in a rails level it was a moment that those houses of all have to hit the bottom more people being level winds of more people being employed they can sell his work and she announced to continue think the federal government has some responsibility here because you indicated that before and our wonder gentlemen in washington would you care to respond to the specific question from a certain age know what's going to happen when the benefits run out the federal government responsibility of houston well i do assume that and i find that you're arthur burns who are the chairman of

the federal reserve board and in a speech recently so the that he felt that the federal government has shown in fact the dvd employer of last resort and some people are react unfavorably i didn't i think that we've got to work out programs to provide opportunities for people like those on the program tonight but to go back to the initial question which you ask which was do they think the federal government is responsible and as i recall it each of them said yes and i think that in the sense that that is true but that is what is the responsibility of the federal government i think it is first of all to try to combat this double digit inflation that has produced the recession in our in our country and before we have before we console will increase deficit spending that is simply going to exacerbate the recession i i think that we in congress have a responsibility to exercise and for scores refined and control and that's

exactly what i think what the president was doing the beatles on the legislation to write it than that congress well congress has made several initiatives that have been supported by a presidential veto were trying some others we've got an accelerated public works bill which will make money available for immediate work and also his the country but the rate back all the necessary public works why is there if we can get that bill passed an unsigned but who would disagree with a couple of first the very idea that you've got to have unemployment an article i don't i don't i don't agree that that is my position jim but let me your insurer coming out right now are we

unemployment inflation or you gotta know that you're democrats of the bill called the humphrey hawkins everybody back to work we got a ring on it one about a three percent within eighteen months which i think is the goal of that legislation is that we're going to cut interest rates in this country of ten percent and we're going to have twelve or thirteen or even forty percent inflation and i wonder whether that is going to be very good for once written an inept yeah i'd like to ask of a direct question the few congressmen on as responsible members of congress who have talked about the fact that you cannot get through certain legislation to help economic situation why don't you ask congressman lend your prestige your leadership your position towards organizing people to demonstrate to have meetings to petition to put pressure on these people who won't put through this

legislation which was so strongly on the president and other congressmen who are stopping else when the aisle excuse memes furnace to make i don't reckon it's my responsibility to tell people and demonstrating i think that here for my people and an old undamaged through the years when those people he feels he represents their wishes i know that like i know what my people i do want to say something that i think is very very important and ideas when we're worried about that we all recognize the reason for that the reason for the federal deficit today as the unemployment that is not yet one of the region that is really overpowering ways it is a well established rule of song accepted by the conservative and liberal economists alike but gage percentage point apart in one generates an adverse impact on the budget people to

approximately sixteen billion dollars you mean because people are lined up some fourteen billion is lost for the anticipated revenue of people our work are paying taxes and some two billion is paid for the necessary cost of government and related unemployment compensation and other welfare costs therefore if we had four percent unemployment a more normal healthy level as we head instead of eight point six it's an easy kind of figure out we be getting some sixty eight billion dollars more the president recognizes that the reason for the deficit he asked for fifty two billion was that rap because of unemployment and he didn't suggest those stimulated thanks to stop unemployment it seems to me that we do have a responsibility and that are not only art to ourselves not only the united states and there's more solidarity but that people regularly dr greenspan dr burns dr simon very nice man and god and

that they're not cool that they'll come from a very limited a very honorable by what they've all done the same time you're all connected with the lyric financial fraternity they don't know many people who are unemployed john anderson is correct in the overall when you have a high unemployment rate some people are paying taxes of course government government to revenues decline and you have you have the opposite and i repeat that we we have to somehow raise the flag but we got to create the kind of conditions and the kind of economic climate in this country whereby we can encourage investment or we can encourage people to go out and build the factories and start a productive enterprise is that will put people like the people on the program tonight back to work and i'm for that everyone has for that but

we got to face the fact that we have been going through not just in in the united states but in western europe i think in every country the industrialized world for a variety of reasons certainly we've had economies moving and recession since nineteen hundred seventy three i want i want a reply to something that mr mcneil said worries so that it appears that we got to resign ourselves to chronic mass unemployment i don't think that's accurate because we had in the last quarter we have eleven point two percent increase in end and the gross national product of the villagers are large increase in the last twenty years and two decades i think the economy is moving out and before we push the panic button and suggest that we're going to have a perpetual a point six percent unemployment i think we ought to recognize that the recovery has begun in this country have bottomed out in april of this year were starting back up and secure their problems that remain but if it were we would maintain some downside between federal

spending and that and i think we're going to be able to encourage or the kind of demand in this country that people were what about this question that you mentioned a moment ago federal government should be the employer of last resort and no matter what technique is used to lower inflation to sell out the economy as you've been mentioning what happens to what should be done now so these people and other people like him can actually put the war well i'm certainly in favor of public service in one of jobs and we have of course a fairly comprehensive and one training accountable to the present time and if necessary i would be in favor of expanding that program if we can't find jobs for people in the private sector then i think we ought to expand public service and wanted to take care of your favorite publishers all along not this with the rhetoric and thought that the votes and i think we ought to have something like this bill again is about i think this version of it can afford a job there when he's willing to work and i like that ought to be

and first priority the white wine that that is to get america back to work and i wonder if people in europe will be willing to work for the federal government twelve years agencies years ago when the two activities in the new york area they have since polls out and move to other areas and there are not many jobs available in the area i have a question of it speaker general about my benefits ran out as of monday know they tell me that i'm eligible for relief well quite some by that what he wants to sit down and collect welfare let alone able to work i'm willing to work at and hurts me for the same dung which only that you know about the gate at these programs grow but its been even appropriate millions and billions for foreign countries and it angered people that they're not contributing to the economy of our country alike than i feel about that strike i think

there are somewhat related but not directly related to the amount that is given on economic aid is a very small percentage of the budget and i don't think that that's and paid off every penny that ryan on economic aid into providing the americans still under the job i'm at as i understand it fail but you know there isn't any way for anybody to understand how you feel not voting unless you've been in your shoes i try in in a relentlessly honestly thought i you know i remember the great depression i was an impressionable age of eighty nine years old my queen work for twenty three years but what was business that was minnie unemployment compensation was no social security there was anything else of those men god not i'm sorry was a problem at the company laid off everybody that more than twenty years of war

the twenty five will they were struck and all the depression that i saw my grandfather every morning and eagerly go to the program rita little meager water for help them for now knock on doors and the cork line from his eyes on the debate rekindled an and then dashed again vicariously mostly concerned about is running i'm concerned about providing a job i can't i could guarantee you honestly that they could offer to each of you the job that you would most dishonest to say that but what i'm saying is that we ought to have these programs on the books so let's listen to cancel the summit mr nicholas

johnson and some of our rooms are in techno such as the importance of education of manila what was not my medicines and since i got laid off funds or my missus have not shown i could not continue on this is not going to have to interrupt you we have given i think a up a sample of some some of the views that many people have we could go on with this for many hours are just like two to ask each of the gunman in washington with a very very briefly his sentences summit the beginning this extraordinary presidential year when everything's going to become a town of worms what is actually going to happen in a few words each of you mr anderson why should i want emphasize that we don't regard to four people with him on this program tonight is simply statistics are they are living proof that there is no greater human tragedy than people who want work and are out of work i don't think that even we in washington have all of the answers yet as to what

combination of public service employment together with measures to give up a private economy should be taken to bring full employment but i i think we're moving in that direction and i think as we have any word from mr wright an officer in a word mr wright i had to let go what my mom said you and i disagree on find the worst though franzen i think he is as good an american ally of our i really honestly believe that the first priority of this mission ought to be a guarantee that every american jobs recommended their congressman congressman ryan thank you very much for coming to see me and jim lehrer and i will be back among the good lord