The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

MR. LEHRER: Good evening. Leading the news this Monday, two airliners collided on a runway in Detroit, killing at least 19 people. Defense Sec. Cheney said the United States could not wait indefinitely for the embargo to work against Iraq, and President Bush began a five nation trip to South America as a state of siege was imposed in Argentina. We'll have the details in our New Summary in a moment. Robin.

MR. MacNeil: After the News Summary, we get more details of the Detroit airline collision and ground control procedures. Then the Pentagon's view of sanctions and the power to start a war. We have the congressional testimony of Defense Sec. Cheney and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Colin Powell. Next, the President's South American diplomacy. Charles Krause has a background report. And we remember the most American of all composers, Erin Copeland.NEWS SUMMARY

MR. MacNeil: Two Northwest airliners collided at the Detroit metropolitan airport this afternoon, killing at least 19 people. An undetermined number of others were injured, the planes were taxiing for takeoff on the wing of a Boeing 727, hit and broke off the rear engine of a DC-9. The DC-9 burst into flame. It was carrying 39 passengers. There were 146 aboard the other plane. Weather conditions at the airport were foggy and overcast and the runway was wet from snow and sleet. We'll have more on the story right after the News Summary. Jim.

MR. LEHRER: The Senate Armed Services Committee today heard the administration's side to the patience in the Gulf argument. Sec. of Defense Dick Cheney said the United States should not wait indefinitely for international sanctions against Iraq to work. He said Saddam Hussein had shown the ability and the willingness to ride them out. Cheney testified this morning.

SEC. CHENEY: My own personal view is that it's far better for us to deal with him now while the coalition is intact, while we have the United Nations behind us, while we have some 26 other nations assembled with military forces in the Gulf than it will be for us to deal with him five or ten years from now when members of the coalition have gone their disparate ways and when Saddam has become an even better armed and more threatening regional super power than he is at present.

MR. LEHRER: We'll have extended excerpts from today's hearing later in the program.

MR. MacNeil: President Bush was in Brazil today for the start of a five nation visit to South America. He spent the day with Brazil's President, Fernando Calor DeMilo. After their meetings, it was announced Mr. Bush approved the sale of a high performance computer to reward Brazil for its recent promise to stop its nuclear bomb program. President Bush also took time out to talk about the Gulf. In his address to Brazil's congress, he complimented the country for supporting the embargo against Iraq and for paying the price.

PRES. BUSH: I realize the sacrifices that Saddam's brutality has caused this nation and its people, has caused many nations around the world. In this country I was told this morning the impact, $5 billion in higher oil prices alone for one year, $5 billion to your economy struggling to move forward, because of the brutality and the aggression of Saddam Hussein. I salute your leadership and the world's communities' united stand against Iraq's aggression and in defense of the rule of law.

MR. MacNeil: Earlier, Mr. Bush said it is because of this economic toll that the sanctions cannot, in his words, go on and on. There was a military rebellion today in one of the President's next stops, Argentina. About 50 rebel soldiers took over part of army headquarters in the capital, Buenos Aires. The government declared a state of siege and the army launched an attack with tanks to get the rebels out. The rebels said they wanted a change in the army high command. President Bush said the rebellion would not cause him to cancel Wednesday's visit.

MR. LEHRER: The U.S. gave Europe a trade warning today. It came during the final session of world trade talks in Brussels, Belgium. American negotiators threatened tariffs on some European imports if the European community does not renew a farm products compensation deal involved in Spain and Portugal. Outside, European farmers clashed with riot police. Thousands of the farmers marched through Brussels to protest another U.S. demand, the reduction of European government's foreign subsidies. The Soviet Republic of Russia proposed a major change for its farmers today. The Republic's parliament voted to allow farmers to own their own land. That has not been possible since Stalin forced all private farms to become state collectives. The law still must be approved by the national parliament.

MR. MacNeil: Continental Airlines, once the nation's largest carrier, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection today. Company officials said the recent rise in fuel costs, as well as huge debts, forced them to take such action. Continental will continue to fly during the holiday season. Astronauts aboard the space shuttle Columbia today were forced to cancel some experiments because of problems with the astro observatory. NASA said the system that points the telescope was malfunctioning. The Columbia was launched yesterday for a 10 day mission to observe stars. NASA officials said they would use a back-up system if the problem persists.

MR. LEHRER: The U.S. Supreme Court today voted 6 to 2 to overturn the murder conviction of a Mississippi man because his lawyer was not present when he confessed. The man had requested legal counsel. The court also let stand a lawsuit settlement that eased state restrictions on abortion clinics in Illinois. Anti-abortion clinics had challenged the settlement. They said it did not adequately protect women and unborn children. In Michigan, the doctor who invented a suicide machine was charged with first degree murder today. Dr. Jack Kivorkian helped a 54 year old Alzheimer's victim inject herself with a lethal dose of drugs. The local prosecutor said not charging the doctor would turn Oakland County into the suicide mecca of the nation.

MR. MacNeil: South Africa today imposed a nighttime curfew on more than 1/2 million blacks. It followed weekend fighting in the black townships that left at least 78 people dead. We have a report from South Africa by Kevin Dunn of Independent Television News.

MR. DUNN: The violence in Tecusa Township southeast of Johannesburg erupted at first light, commuters fleeing for their lives as their train came under armed attack. Out on the street were armed gangs of mainly Zulu warriors who rampaged through the township, attacking residents loyal to Nelson Mandela's African National Congress. The blood letting was the worst for three months in South Africa. Throughout the township laid the dead and the dying from 24 hours of vicious clashes. Residents bitterly accused the police of failing to intervene. The police have often been accused of siding with the Zulu migrants who support Mr. Mandela's political rival, Chief Gocha Buthelesi. This morning the police too sporadic action to disperse the mob but disarmed only those who were openly carrying guns. The minister of law and order visited the township last night together with Mr. Mandela, but their appeal for calm was gone unheeded. The police presence also seemed pitifully inadequate as the Zulus rampaged on.

MR. MacNeil: That's the News Summary. Still ahead, the Detroit aircraft collision, the Pentagon answers Gulf doubters, the President's South America agenda, and memories of Erin Copeland. FOCUS - FATAL FLIGHT

MR. MacNeil: First tonight we have more on the plane crash at Detroit's Metropolitan Airport that killed at least 19 people today. A few minutes ago I talked by phone with Robert Ficano, the sheriff of Wayne County, Michigan. Sheriff Ficano, from your investigation so far, what do you think happened?

ROBERT FICANO, Wayne County Sheriff: Well, we'd be truly speculating. At this point, there appears that two planes were scheduled to take off and they were in the same area, same runway area, and at that point the one plane hit the other one. The wings seemed to hit one wing and then also a part of the main body of the plane, and at that time, a fire broke out and resulting in the casualties. At this point, there appears to be 19 people that have been deceased.

MR. MacNeil: What was the weather and the visibility at that time?

SHERIFF FICANO: It appeared to be a lot of fog at that time, but until we have the actual tapes and the National Transportation Safety Board reviews them, it's hard to determine what actually it was like out on that runway.

MR. MacNeil: Was the ground also covered so that the lines of taxiways and things would be obscured?

SHERIFF FICANO: Again, there was fog out there. Now whether the pilots could see it or not would be speculation on my part right now, but there was a fog out there.

MR. MacNeil: So the way you've heard it, the wing tip of the 727 didn't only strike the tail of the DC-9, it may also have hit the wing as well, and the top of the plane, is that it?

SHERIFF FICANO: That's correct. And apparently part of the body then became disenlodged and at that point it immediately broke into flames and they were able to put it out rapidly, but unfortunately, there seemed to be 19 deaths, and so far 20 people have been taken to three area hospitals.

MR. MacNeil: So those pictures that we see showing the top of the plane missing, that wasn't only as a result of the fire, is that correct?

SHERIFF FICANO: Right now the speculation is is that it also may have over there.

MR. MacNeil: I see.

SHERIFF FICANO: But until it's actually pieced together from all the eyewitness accounts, as well as the FAA tapes and everything, it would be difficult to say what actually happened.

MR. MacNeil: Has your office been able to ascertain what was the chief cause of death of the 19?

SHERIFF FICANO: No, not at this time. We're still in the process of a rescue, obviously. The fire was a major player in it.

MR. MacNeil: I see. Did the evacuation occur as speedily as it's supposed to, were the, you know, the exit slides deployed rapidly and everything as far as you heard?

SHERIFF FICANO: Yes. From my knowledge at this point, everyone on Flight 299 was able to evacuate through the normal procedure of the chutes and everything. Obviously the tragedy occurred with the DC-9.

MR. MacNeil: For further perspective on today's disaster, we turn now to Anthony Dresden, public affairs director for the National Air Traffic Controllers Association and Paul Turk of Avmark Incorporated, an airline consulting firm. Mr. Dresden, I gather you've talked to controllers and people in Detroit. What can you add to understanding what happened today?

MR. DRESDEN: Well, I stressed from the start that this is all preliminary information and we too are waiting for the NTSB to arrive in Detroit. Our understanding is that the DC-9 pilot became either lost or disoriented. In a situation like this -- we have heard too by the way that the visibility was 800 feet on the ground -- and --

MR. MacNeil: Which is quite a lot really, isn't it?

MR. DRESDEN: Quite a lot, but still is not a great deal. In situations like this, since there is no surface detection equipment or ground radar, controllers have to rely exclusively on what the pilots tell them as to their whereabouts. It appears that the DC-9 pilot, as I say, either became lost or disoriented and then in what we have heard from the tapes, there is one very stunning moment where he says, "I think I'm on Runway 21-C". 21-C and 3-C where the 727 was taking off are parallel. The controller working the ground controls said, "Exit immediately." The DC-9 tried to and to our understanding, it was just too late.

MR. MacNeil: Was -- is it your understanding that the 727 was in the act of taking off --

MR. DRESDEN: That's right.

MR. MacNeil: -- and under -- considered already at high speed?

MR. DRESDEN: That is correct. He was in a take off role.

MR. MacNeil: A take off role. And do you understand that he hit both the wing and the top and the tail of the --

MR. DRESDEN: That we're not sure of.

MR. MacNeil: I see.

MR. DRESDEN: This comes after the controllers had reviewed the tapes of the incident. Of course, we will be giving depositions to the National Transportation Safety Board, but this is the initial review of the tapes of the incident.

MR. MacNeil: I must say at this point that we've asked the Airline Pilots Association for a statement, but they have declined to give one at this time. Mr. Turk, from what you know from the pilot's perspective, what - - and listening to Mr. Dresden's very preliminary account, how typical is this kind of thing or how usual is this kind of thing, the situation, on a ground situation?

MR. TURK: It's highly unusual. He has a lot later information than I do on some of the specific things that happen. There are two very large instances of this in 1977 and a crash at O'Hare in 1972, involving air carrier aircraft. But for the most part this is not something that happens with any regularity, and for it to happen in this way is I think very unusual.

MR. MacNeil: The -- describe the relative movements of planes - - I mean, if a man -- obviously you don't know about this particular situation, but a pilot flying a 727, which takes off at high speeds, he -- how is the take off speed relative to 800 feet of visibility? Presumably, that's very little visibility when you're traveling at that speed, is it?

MR. TURK: Yes, sir, it is. That doesn't give you more than a couple of seconds to react.

MR. MacNeil: So in other words, if what Mr. Dresden said occurred, the pilot of the 727 could suddenly have the other plane appear in a second, you mean, out of nothing, is that --

MR. TURK: In a second or two, with very little room to maneuver, and any sort of a violent maneuver to avoid at that time could simply worsen the situation.

MR. MacNeil: I see.

MR. TURK: We don't know yet.

MR. MacNeil: Mr. Dresden, Mr. Turk just said this kind of situation is highly unusual. You mentioned a moment ago no ground control radar should give the -- now that's a matter of controversy at the moment, isn't it? There was a story in the Wall Street Journal a few weeks ago saying that the NTSB was urging the FAA to do more about this kind of situation because of the incidence, because of incidents and near misses on the ground. Can you speak to that for a moment?

MR. DRESDEN: A little bit, but there have been incidents of runway incursions. As to --

MR. MacNeil: A runway incursion is somebody who isn't supposed to be on there.

MR. DRESDEN: Correct. There have been incidents of those. They have been in decline, however, as has been pointed out, Detroit did not have the airport surface detection equipment. For instance, Kennedy does, LA, Dulles Airport here in Washington, D.C., does.

MR. MacNeil: Is this very new equipment?

MR. DRESDEN: No. No. It's not particularly new equipment, but as I say, one would have to ask the FAA why it has not been installed in other airports, whether it's a question of budget, I'm not sure.

MR. MacNeil: What is your understanding of the surface detection equipment availability, Mr. Turk?

MR. TURK: I actually have less information on that than Tony does. I go with what he's telling you. It's my understanding in the situation that he's better informed.

MR. MacNeil: The Wall Street Journal story said that there is a desire on some part by the NTSB and others to have a very new kind of highly sensitive radar installed which can give the air traffic controllers a much greater picture of what's happening. What do you know about that, Mr. Dresden?

MR. DRESDEN: It depends. There are different types of radar coming on line over the next really ten to twenty years as part of the plan. There is one on precision landing. Now we're in favor of looking into this, but we just want to make sure, however, that there are enough controllers to handle this. In other words, we're trying to increase the capacity of the air traffic control system which is fine, but you have to make sure that you have the qualified personnel to be able to operate that. That's our only concern right now. But it's very good that they're trying to bring this new technology on line.

MR. MacNeil: I see. Mr. Turk, is -- are there enough near misses or incursions, as they were called, to justify a very significant change in the system?

MR. TURK: I'm not an expert on the air traffic control system. I think it's generally accepted in the pilot community --

MR. MacNeil: I'm talking about the ground control system, moving around on the ground.

MR. TURK: Yes, sir. I think what I'm trying to say is that it's generally accepted in the community that there's a great deal of work that needs to be done to bring the entire system, ground and air, into greater compliance or greater safety, without suggesting that it's an unsafe system that could be improved. I don't think anybody doubts that.

MR. DRESDEN: If I could add too that there has been a lot of discussion both with NACA and the Airlines Pilots Association about simplifying runway identification so that it's easier for pilots to find specific taxiways and runways.

MR. MacNeil: May I just say in closing, perhaps you'd like to comment on this, Mr. Dresden, the Airline Pilots Association have told us they think it is irresponsible to speculate this early on the cause of the crash.

MR. DRESDEN: Well, I think maybe -- I'd say, yes, it's not irresponsible.

MR. MacNeil: I mean, what you said puts the pilots in a rather bad light, doesn't it?

MR. DRESDEN: Yes. I think unfortunately the way news breaks so quickly these days that we are giving the best information we have available. People are very hungry for news information. This is information we have received, as I say, from the controllers. We are saying of course it is preliminary information, that the Board could come up with some additional findings, but people do want to hear the best information we have available and this is it.

MR. MacNeil: Right. Well, Mr. Dresden, Mr. Turk, thank you both for joining us. Jim.

MR. LEHRER: Still to come on the NewsHour tonight, the administration's day before the Senate Armed Services Committee, President Bush's mission to South America, and remembering Erin Copeland. FOCUS - MISGUIDED MISSION?

MR. LEHRER: It was the administration's turn to make its military case before the Senate Armed Services Committee today. We have extended excerpts from the hearing. Kwame Holman reports.

MR. HOLMAN: In four previous sessions, this committee had heard military experts and former government officials dissect the Bush administration's Gulf policy. This morning, it was the administration's turn to define and defend that policy. Sec. of Defense Dick Cheney restated President Bush's goals.

SEC. CHENEY: There shouldn't be any doubt about the consequences of allowing a man like Saddam Hussein to control the world's supply of energy. Obviously, were he to do so, he'd have a choke hold on the world's economy, he would be able to control production levels and price, he'd be in a position to blackmail any nation which chose not to do his bidding. Our goal and the goals of the United Nations involved getting Iraq out of Kuwait and restoring the legitimate government of Kuwait in protecting American lives and obtaining the release of all the hostages now held by Iraq and doing everything we can to restore security and stability to the region. We pursued a multi-faceted approach to this policy. We've exercised I think when the efforts of the President and Sec. Baker, one of the more successful diplomatic ventures in recent times.

MR. HOLMAN: Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Colin Powell said the military is solidly behind the President's course.

GEN. COLIN POWELL: We don't want a war. We aren't looking for one. The President doesn't want one. The Secretary doesn't want one. No one in uniform wants one. No American wants one and certainly no loved one waiting at home wants one. War is a terrible thing with unpredictable consequences. But my job and the job of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the commanders involved in this operation is to make sure that if it is necessary to go to war, we go to war to win. That is the surest way to achieve our objectives and to minimize casualties. I also want to note that the views I'm expressing today represent the views of our responsible military commanders and all of the members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. As we discuss issues of peace and war this morning, let no one listening to these proceedings doubt the pride we have in our GIs and the full support we will give them, whatever the future holds.

MR. HOLMAN: Like the questioning of previous witnesses, today's hearings focused on economic sanctions versus military force, to get the Iraqis out of Kuwait.

SEN. CARL LEVIN, [D] Michigan: You've indicated that sanctions might work and they might not work. And there's a lot of evidence, I believe, you said, Mr. Secretary, that they won't work. In your opinion, is it more likely than not that they will work within a year to two?

SEC. CHENEY: Senator, I have a bit of a bias where sanctions are concerned and it's based upon trying to find historical antecedents where they produce the kind of result that we're interested in trying to achieve. That's very hard to do. Sanctions have got a sort of spotty track record. We've used them in many cases with varying degrees of success. If the President were to ask me today, can you guarantee that these sanctions will work within a year or two, the answer is, no, I cannot. I can guarantee you we can keep the ships at sea, we can keep interdicting the oil exports, et cetera, subject to all of those conditions I mentioned in my testimony and to try to maintain the coalition, but I cannot, nor can anyone else, give you anything more than the kind of opinion that Sen. Cohen mentioned. Opinions are all over the lot and my testimony this morning I think is designed in part to point out that there are a lot of reasons to think that the costs of trying to make them work may be greater and that they may, in fact, not produce the result.

SEN. LEVIN: I didn't ask you for a guarantee for the reasons you give, but what I asked you is whether or not in your opinion the sanctions are more likely than not to work within a year to two, if we pursued that alternative, keeping our military option open?

SEC. CHENEY: My personal view, Senator, is that given the nature of the regime, given Saddam Hussein's brutality to his own people, given his very tight control over that society, his ability to allocate resources to the military, their ability to produce their own food basically inside, that he can write them out.

SEN. LEVIN: What did you mean in late August when you said Sec. Cheney, that sanctions have some reasonable prospect for success?

SEC. CHENEY: Well, I think it was based upon the notion that we would be able to marshall the kind of international effort with our naval forces that would block oil traffic that would deny him the ability to acquire goods and international commerce. I think the, I guess the new information I would say that I've seen in recent months that leads me to have questions about whether or not they'll work. We saw for example the abortive effort to ration gasoline back then, but that's subsequently been cancelled. They've gone back not to rationing gasoline, fired the minister who put it in. The analysis that shows, in fact, that they're likely to be able to significantly expand their food production which was not available early on and the extent of which even with the sanctions in place for the last few months. He has been able to mobilize a couple of hundred thousand additional personnel to deploy in Southern Iraq and Kuwait, so that even though we've had sanctions on since August, we've seen this constant, continual military build-up in the Kuwaiti theater of operations, and I guess all of those things lead me to have some doubts about whether or not they'll produce the desired result.

SEN. LEVIN: Do you have greater doubt now than you did in late August as to whether sanctions can work?

SEC. CHENEY: I think that'd be a fair statement.

MR. HOLMAN: Sec. Cheney referred to last week's UN Security Council resolution that authorized the use of force against Iraq unless it withdraws from Kuwait by January 15th.

SEC. CHENEY: The President has not made a decision to use military force at this point, but that option's going to be there very shortly.

SEN. SLADE GORTON, [R] Washington: Do you view it most likely that this credible threat of force, together with sanctions, the threat of force unused, is likely to succeed only when it is perceived by Saddam Hussein that no other alternative except conflict remains and then very likely only at the last minute.

SEC. CHENEY: That would be my expectation. Again, we're speculating here about how he might or might not respond to events. But I think as long as he believes he's got time, but he will continue to try to work to find ways to break up the coalition and to refuse to come into compliance, and the positive side of the UN resolution that we adopted last Thursday, of course, was that we were able to get a 12 to 2 vote from the Security Council authorizing the use of all means necessary. On the other hand, it doesn't kick in until January 15th, so that means he's got some six weeks now where he's basically got a grace period. I would not expect him, were he to respond to that threat, to do so until very close to the 15th of January.

MR. HOLMAN: The Armed Services Committee's Democrats continued to press the administration officials on whether the President could order troops into combat without prior approval of the Congress.

SEC. CHENEY: There have been some 200 times, more than 200 times in our history, when Presidents have committed U.S. forces and only five of those occasions was there a prior declaration of war. And so I am not who would argue in this instance that the President - - the President's hands are tied or that he is unable, given his constitutional responsibilities as commander in chief, to carry out his responsibilities.

SEN. KENNEDY: Well, Mr. Secretary, we're not talking about Libya, we're not talking about Grenada, not talking about Panama. We're talking about 440,000 American troops who are over there; we're talking about a major kind of American military involvement if it becomes necessary to do so. And do I understand from your response that you are prepared to tell the American people now that barring provocation by Saddam Hussein that you believe he and he alone can bring this country to war?

SEC. CHENEY: Senator, I would argue, as has every President to my knowledge, certainly in modern times, that the President as commander in chief under Title 2, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution has the authority to commit U.S. forces.

SEN. GLENN: You indicate the embargo will not be effective, you indicate that it may even hurt some of the allies, our coalition, maybe even more than Iraq, and we may have the coalition break up. It seems to me that's almost a chicken little approach to our current policy, the sky is falling in and there's only option, and that's war.

SEC. CHENEY: I remember very well something you told me, Senator, when I got this job. You took me aside shortly after confirmation and you said to me, you said, Dick, you've got only one requirement, one obligation, that's secretary of defense, all of the other talk about the industrial base and all of these other considerations is irrelevant; your concern is to make certain that we are prepared to fight and to win, if need be, and the size of force we've deployed there is based specifically on the notion that if there is to be hostility, if there is to be a conflict, that there should be absolutely no doubt about what the outcome will be, or that the United States will prevail in the shortest time possible.

MR. MacNeil: Today's testimony ends this round of Senate Armed Services Committee hearings on the Gulf. Tomorrow the Senate Foreign Affairs Comme4 YYPqY|Ko its investigation. Sec. of State Baker is scheduled to testify on Wednesday. FOCUS - SOUTH OF THE BORDER

MR. LEHRER: Next tonight the United States and South America. President Bush is in Brazil tonight on the first stop in a five nation, seven day diplomatic initiative in South America. Correspondent Charles Krause has a background look at the President's trip and policy goals.

MR. KRAUSE: The President received a 21 gun salute and a warm welcome this morning in Brazilia. His host, Brazil's new President, Fernando Calor Damelo, then to Congress, where Mr. Bush promised strong U.S. support for continued economic and political reform throughout the hemisphere.

PRES. BUSH: To fulfill the new world's destiny all of the Americas and the Caribbean must embark upon a venture for the coming century to create the first fully democratic hemisphere in the history of mankind.

MR. KRAUSE: For Latins in Brazil and throughout the hemisphere, today's message reflects a welcome change in U.S. policy. For the past decade, Washington's interest in the region was dominated almost exclusively by concern for security issues in Central America, the Contras and the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, Marxist guerrillas in El Salvador, Noriega and last year's invasion of Panama. But now as old conflicts come to an end, the President intends to signal a change in U.S. priorities, from military and security to political and economic. Even before today's military rebellion in Argentina, Asst. Sec. of State Bernard Aronson said the President was determined to show U.S. support for democracy and to reassure Latin America it hasn't been forgotten.

BERNARD ARONSON, Asst. Sec. of State: Frankly, I think there is some fear in South America that just at this moment of enormous opportunity for them when they are creating new democracies, when they are opening their economies, that the United States will be diverted to other parts of the world, to Eastern Europe, to the Gulf, and neglect Latin America, and it's also the case that because of the conflicts in Central America, the United States was to some extent diverted to that region, to some extent to the neglect of South America I think this trip makes it clear that that history is behind us, and that we're very committed to building a stronger relationship with these important countries.

MR. KRAUSE: Unlike some of his predecessors, George Bush seems to have a genuine interest in Latin America. He was in Costa Rica last year and in Mexico just last week. He's established close personal ties with many Latin leaders and by all accounts he's determined to forge a new relationship with the region after decades of gunboat diplomacy and mutual suspicion. The United States has intervened in the Caribbean and Latin America at least half a dozen times since the end of World War II. In 1961, it was the Kennedy administration which tried to overthrow Castro at the Bay of Pigs. In 1965, Lyndon Johnson sent troops to the Dominican Republic. In 1983, President Reagan ordered the invasion of Grenada, and last year, it was Panama. Time and again, the United States was angered by undermining governments perceived to be unfriendly or too far to the left. And because of support from military dictators like Gen. Augusto Pinochet in Chile. "Yankee go home" reached a fever pitch in 1958, when then Vice President Richard Nixon was mobbed in Caracas. Guido Di Tella, now Argentina's ambassador to Washington, remembers what it was like in his country and in others.

GUIDO DI TELLA, Ambassador, Argentina: You know the name of the game in Latin America and Argentina in the past was how to irk the Americans a bit, not so much because then you could really angry, but enough to make political hate internally. That is not the name of the game anymore.

MR. KRAUSE: Di Tella says what's changed is the United States is no longer perceived to be the enemy. In part, that's because the collapse of Communism in Eastern Europe has robbed the left in Latin America of its ideology and of support. Perceptions of the United States have also changed because of Jimmy Carter's concern for fair elections and his human rights policy of a decade ago, and finally there's been a revival of democracy throughout the hemisphere and a new generation of Democratic leaders.

SEC. ARONSON: I think there's been an enormous intellectual revolution in Latin America in the past decade. The first is that democracy is now considered the only legitimate form of government. Dictatorships of the left and dictatorships of the right have no legitimacy and nobody makes the case for them anymore. And secondly, there's been a profound revolution in thinking about economic policy. The old model for development in growth in Latin America was a closed status model that argued that these countries were vulnerable to competition that they had to erect large protectionist barriers and shelter their local industries and substitute for exports by developing these protected statused industries. That motto is discredited entirely.

MR. KRAUSE: One important reflection of the changes that have already occurred took place here at the White House June 27th. The President called together his cabinet, Latin ambassadors and other distinguished guests to announce an important shift in U.S. policy. Henceforth, the emphasis in relations with Latin America would be on trade and economic cooperation, what the President calls his "enterprise for the Americas initiative".

PRES. BUSH: I've asked you here today to share some of the ideas, some of the ways we can build a broad-based partnership for the '90s, to announce the new enterprise for America's initiative that creates incentives to reinforce Latin America's growing recognition that free market reform is the key to sustained growth and political stability.

MR. KRAUSE: Among the President's proposals, support for free trade, steps that would eventually lead toward creation of a Western hemisphere free trade zone stretching from Alaska to Argentina, new loan programs to encourage privatization of state- owned industries and to spur foreign investment. The initiative would also restructure or cancel some $7 billion worth of official debt owed by Latin countries to the U.S. government, and finally support for programs to protect the environment. After the speech, Mr. Bush walked over to shake hands over with Enrique Iglasias, President of the Inner-American Development Bank. The bank will play a major role in the enterprise initiative. Iglasias now says he was surprised and delighted by the President's speech last June.

ENRIQUE IGLESIAS, Inter-American Development Bank: Well, I would say I was pleasantly surprised in the sense that after so many years of gloomy visions of Latin America, there appears the President of this country projecting a message of confidence and in the future of Latin America, and using the relations within the U.S. in Latin America to promote a joint venture. That, it's very good news. It's not a philanthropic initiative, and that I think is very important. It is initiative based on the majority of interests.

MR. KRAUSE: Aronson says that's why the initiative has been so well received.

SEC. ARONSON: Precisely because it responds not to an agenda written in Washington, but an agenda written in Latin America. This is what the Latin leaders have told us that they care about, trade, investment, and debt.

MR. KRAUSE: But at home, Democrat Chris Dodd, chairman of the Senate Subcommittee on Western Hemisphere Affairs, complains the administration is preoccupied with other issues. There was the speech in June.

SEN. CHRISTOPHER DODD, [D] Connecticut: And then silence, virtually nothing. Had one hearing in September on this question and frankly, the people who came to testify were ill prepared, couldn't answer questions about what this meant, what it was going to do, what the implications were. It was just a disorganized effort and frankly, the President is not being served well. And he's going to hurt himself and hurt this initiative if we don't handle it with a great deal of sensitivity in making it amenable.

MR. KRAUSE: Beyond the bureaucratic and political rambling, there are some other potential problems with the initiative. Except for Chile and Mexico, the indices of poverty throughout Latin America continue to worsen. With so many of the details yet to be filled in, there's concern in Latin America the initiative won't go far enough fast enough to solve the region's deepening problems.

GUIDE DI TELLA, Ambassador, Argentina: Of course, more it would be better, but this is what we're going to insist that more meat is put on the bones of this measure.

MR. KRAUSE: Di Tella and others say the President's new policies have clearly raised hopes throughout the hemisphere, especially in the new democracies, Chile, Argentina, and Brazil. But as today's military uprising in Argentina demonstrated, many of these governments are fragile. Iglesias says they need concrete U.S. support.

MR. IGLESIAS: The President is saying he's pleased that democracy has returned to the region. The question is now we need to sustain these democratic efforts with development, and this invitation to work now in the other "d", development is in a way a very important contribution. It's a long process. It would be I think a major mistake to have an excess of expectations and the timing of all these things.

MR. KRAUSE: In Brazilia today, the President said he knew his enterprise initiative would take time and that economic reform in Latin America would not be easy. But he promised continued U.S. help, encouragement and support.

PRES. BUSH: My friends, our neighbors, let the new dawn come to Brazil and to the new world and let us fulfill the promise of these great lands. Thank you very much and may God bless the people of Brazil. Thank you very, very much. FINALLY - PERFECT PITCH

MR. MacNeil: To close tonight we remember one of the greatest American composers of the century, Erin Copeland, who died yesterday at the age of 90. Copeland's music ranged from ballet to symphonies to opera, to film sound tracks, but whatever the musical norm, he imbued everything he composed with the uniquely American sound. I spoke with Erin Copeland at his home in Pekeskill, New York, in 1985.

MR. COPELAND: There is no reason in the world why I should have been a musician. I come from a family who were just ordinary shop keepers and people who liked music occasionally but nothing in the way of a professional musician. When I told my father I wanted to be a composer of serious music, he looked at me and he said, where did you get such a strange idea. But on the other hand, I was the youngest of five children, and as long as it appeared that I would not be making a financial bother of myself, the attitude of my parents was he knows what he wants to do, let him do it.

MR. MacNeil: Are you pretty pleased with what you've accomplished?

MR. COPELAND: Well, I think one of the major accomplishments is trying to write a music of your own time, and that's part of the fun. Of course, that's part of the fun in trying to find musical idioms that are fresh, new, different, more exciting for us, because they haven't been done before, than just to sit back and write music in the style of Beethoven and Bach.

MR. MacNeil: When people call you the father of American music or things like that, what does it make you feel?

MR. COPELAND: Sort of nice that somebody or other thinks you deserve a situation like that. If you take it too seriously, you're liable to get into trouble yourself.

MR. MacNeil: In what way?

MR. COPELAND: Well, I mean, after all, it's very difficult to know what music lovers 50 years from now will think about what I have written. They make thing it's fascinating. They may think it's old hat, or heave only knows what they might think about it.

MR. MacNeil: Do you have a hunch whether 50 years from now you will be better remembered for the more popular works like Billy the Kid or Appalachian Spring, or the perhaps more progressive things, like your Piano Variations?

MR. COPELAND: There's no way of telling how 50 years from now the listening public is going to be either passionately interested or not interested at all. You're taking a big chance and there's no other way of doing it. You have to write the music. You have to write. You can't write the music that you only hope somebody's going to love. You, yourself, have to be convinced that your writing is so good that they won't be able to ignore it 50 years from now. [ONE OF COPELAND'S PIECE'S] RECAP

MR. LEHRER: Again, the major stories of this Monday, at least 19 persons died when two Northwest Airlines jets collided on a runway at the Detroit Airport. Defense Sec. Cheney said the United States cannot wait indefinitely for sanctions to work against Iraq, and early this evening military rebels in Argentina surrendered after one day of fighting. Good night, Robin.

MR. MacNeil: Good night, Jim. That's the News Hour tonight. We'll see you tomorrow night. I'm Robert MacNeil. Good night.