The MacNeil/Lehrer Report; 6012; Labor, Blacks & The GOP

JIM LEHRER: Good evening- Ronald Reagan is getting more of what he wants tonight. A conservative Republican Party platform and warm praise from an array of Republican stars, including John Connally. Henry Kissinger and Barry Goldwater. They`re all on the list of the evening`s speakers, along with Congressman Guy VanderJagt of Michigan, the official keynoter. But it`s in adopting the platform that the convention has reached its first real serious business. It`s a platform that has already been labeled one of the most conservative ever adopted by a major political party. The question, of course, is how it and the man who runs on it, Ronald Reagan, will set with those groups of voters who in the past haven`t supported either. Robin?

MacNEIL: Jim, two groups of those voters are already being studied with hungry new eyes by Republicans this year. They arc blue-collar workers and blacks who both tradi-tionally produce large majorities for the Democrats. The polls are showing voters more willing to trust Reagan than Carter at the moment to handle the economy. United Auto Workers president Douglas Fraser says. `There is an absolute correlation between high unemployment and the movement towards Reagan.` According to the National Journal, some AFL-CIO labor leaders feel that as many as 35 percent of their rank and file might support Reagan. If white blue-collar workers thought Reagan could handle the economy better, might some blacks not think so. too? Tonight, we look at the appeal of Reagan himself, and the Republican platform to labor and blacks. In Detroit, a union member and a black who support Reagan. In New York, two who don`t. Jim?

LEHRER: Our labor representatives are both members of the United Auto Workers union. David Dodt, here in Detroit, is a Reagan supporter, is a production inspector at the General Motors central foundry in Defiance, Ohio. He is a member of UAW Local 211 there. With us in New York is Sam Meyers, president of UAW Local 259, a union of auto repair and service people in the New York City area. Mr. Dodt, tell Sam Meyers and the rest of us why you`re supporting Ronald Reagan.

DAVID DODT: Number one, jobs. Two would be the protection of the family unit. The problem of alienating the youth of America because of the working conditions. The other would be the -- oh, the treatment of veterans, the negative treatment that the Democrats have given the Veterans Administration. And the destruction of the work ethic.

LEHRER: Mr. Meyers, you`re not supporting Reagan. Why not?

SAM MEYERS: Pretty much for the very reasons that Mr. Dodt just projected. First of all, insofar as jobs are concerned, I`m delighted to see that in the platform, the Reagan people in the platform have finally come into the 20th century. At least they say that they recognize that even labor has a right to organize. As far as the family is concerned. I believe that the Democrats --

LEHRER: Well, let`s stop -- Mr. Meyers, let`s stop right there on the question of jobs. Why -- ? What is it -- What is it that you think that Reagan will do? Now, Mr. Meyers, what you think Reagan will do to alleviate the jobs problem -- by them, you mean unemploy-ment in the auto industry, and --

DODT: Well, he could do a lot of things that Jimmy Carter hasn`t done. Whether it`s a tariff -- a temporary tariff to stop imports for a while till the American industries can change over. The changeover would bring skilled tradesworkers back on the jobs, you know, in the plants, as soon as they`re ready to, you know, in full production, you know, production workers would conic back into working into working in the labor force. Tax incentives is a tine -- In the homebuilding trades, for example. The farmer can write off 10 percent of his equipment that he buys over V number of year period as a -- well, you can do the same thing if we had somebody up there with some imagination in housing where you could write off 10 percent of your housing -- You just have to have somebody with imagination. Carter doesn`t have any imagination.

LEHRER: Do you agree. Mr. Meyers?

MEYERS: Pardon? Oh --

LEHRER: Do you agree that --

MEYERS: No. I -- One of the problems I have in addressing some of these very simple statements, is that I have to be a little more -- more complicated than that.

LEHRER: Sure

MEYERS: For instance, in terms of foreign imports, I think it would be a catastrophic mistake to have tariffs. I think that the federal government has finally arrived at a point of view which is correct. That is. that they first of all ask that the Japanese plants locate here in the United States, that we begin to develop training programs for those who are laid off in the interim. I see that the Republicans are not interested in those who are laid off except through pious platitudes. I believe that we need, wherever possible, to develop public service employment. The Republicans say no to that. I think that what we have to do essentially is begin to attack the whole notion of inflation and unemployment as being interrelated. There is absolutely no reason why the Reagan administration shouldn`t attack big business, big oil. It seems to us that the major reason for inflation in the United States, and the reason that the working people in the United States don`t have money, is that there`s been an enormous transfer of wealth, into the hundreds of billions of dollars now, and for the foreseeable ten years. The platform says that it will not do anything about windfall profits at all.

LEHRER: Yeah. All right, let me -- let`s get to the -- You`ve raised several questions here, that we`ll get back to --

DODT: If I can remember all of them.

LEHRER: Right. Well, let me help you. First of all. the question of big business. Business. Mr. Meyers said --

DODT: Okay. In the auto industry itself, there wasn`t the revenue, you know, to do all the changing over that there was because the `73 oil boycott. There was a trendous layoff. The profits weren`t there to completely do the changeover that Jimmy Carter even addressed himself to when he first came to office. He told the people in the auto industry that they ought to change over some cars --

LEHRER: Yeah, but what is Reagan -- ? You`re supporting Reagan. What is Reagan going to do that you think -- ?

DODT: Welt, he`s doing nothing right now. It`s catastrophic, which is what we`re dealing with. Whether the -- whether you -- Sam doesn`t like tariffs. Okay, you don`t like tariffs, how about quotas?

LEHRER: How about quotas, Mr. Meyers?

MEYERS: Well, I don`t agree with quotas per se. I think there needs to be a reciprocity between Japan and the United States. For instance, I do believe that the United States is bending backward in not demanding reciprocity from Japan. If Japan is taxing the auto industry to the extent that it is. the auto industry should do the same.

LEHRER: Ail right, let`s go to the -- Yeah? Yes, sir.

MEYERS: But this is a worldwide problem. Sir, the Fiat Corporation in Italy is also suffering. What needs to be done is to have a worldwide understanding about what the automobile industry will and what it won`t be. And in this regard. Carter fails. I`m not suggesting that Carter succeeds. I`m not a Carter advocate. But if we had Reagan in the White House, I think that we would first begin to enter the 20th century. Let me suggest this --

LEHRER: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let`s talk -- Let`s get back to the question that I asked here a moment ago, which -- and the point that you raised. And let me put it to you this way, Mr. Dodt. Reagan and the Republican Party have always, rightly or wrongly, carried the label of being pro-business/anti-labor. You`re a labor man, and yet you`re supporting Reagan. Does that bother you, or do you feel that`s just a bad rap?

DODT: Business employs labor. It`s as simple as that. If you say, well, I`m only labor, to hell with business, business is going to down the tube, which it is doing, and you have unemployed labor. So let`s -- let`s be -- you know, wait a minute, let`s get -- use a little sense here. Who`s going to employ all these people? If you`re not going to employ them by business, you`ve got to employ them by somebody. It`s gonna be government, and what`s the percentage? Was it one percent unemployment means the government has to kick out $30 billion a year to take care of that one percent. So, you know, the cost -- you`ll say, well, you got to defray that cost. Get it away from government. What do you get it away -- If you don`t get it from government, who do you do it with? You do it with industry. You got to deal with industry. It`s a baloney. It`s what it is. It`s just a bunch of baloney that you can only -- We can`t do it with, you know, we got to do it -- we deal with industry. The tax breaks that the corporations have they got over the last 30 years from the Democratic Congress which is -- been controlled by the Democrats for the last 30 years. There`s no way they can get away from that. So, if they`re going to say, well, look at the tax break -- those are Democratic tax breaks. So, there`s only one place they can go for their money to do all these willy-nilly programs that they got. And that`s to come to me and my pocket-book. And I don`t like that. I`m getting sick of it. When it was one percent of the inflation rate, we could buy that. When it was two percent, we said. Okay. When it was three percent, we`ll live with it. But not when it`s 18, pushing 20 percent. I say, wait a minute, this is my pocketbook, I got to feed my family, and I don`t give a tinker`s hoot about those guys in Washington, D.C. And so far, the organized labor hasn`t addressed itself to that yet. I do, with my rank and file brothers and sisters at Local 211.

LEHRER: Do your rank and file brothers and sisters in 211 feel the same way you do about Ronald Reagan?

DODT: The vote for Ronald Reagan picked up, oh, about between 700 and a thousand votes, independents and Democrats, in the non-contested primary election, which was the largest vote in that county. There was a large vote also in the Democratic primary with Kennedy, because the UAW, of course, pushed Kennedy. Those rank and file members come to me and say, `Look, we did this as a protest vote against Carter. We`re not against Reagan. As soon as this is over with and Carter carries the state and gets the nomination, we will immediately switch.` I expect, in my county, and if this is a reflection statewide, that the Carter -- I mean the Reagan vote at the November election would be greater than that Nixon carried the state of Ohio.

LEHRER: Mr. Meyers, what`s your reading at your local in terms of support for Ronald Reagan right now?

MEYERS: Well, it will be overwhelming. Membership, our membership will be voting tor Carter or for some other candidate. None of them, or very few of them, will be voting for Reagan. Reagan to them represents an anathema. If you read the platform, you find that he supports right-to-work laws. There`s nothing in the platform that talks about national health insurance, which is a vital aspect`. I would suggest that even on the tax cuts, we know it`s a trick bag. When our members pay $1000 or $1500 a year in taxes, or $2000, they will get $200 cut. If a millionaire pays a million dollars, he will have $100,000 cut. And I`m just wondering where the money is going to go? As far as we`re concerned, we`re not at all happy with Carter, but we sure don`t want to see Reagan because there`s a record, there`s a Republican record that goes back to Hoover at least. Labor laws, labor law reform, which is a terribly important aspect of our life, the right to organize, has been aborted, primarily by the Republican Party. So, that every one of the issues that we need -- and I might point out that ERA is a labor issue. And who is very strongly opposed to a platform that speaks about the rights of women to have the same -- same rights as every-body else.

LEHRER: All right. Mr. Meyers, thank you very much. We`ve got to move on now. Robin?

MacNEIL: CBS News this morning interviewed a group of black workers waiting in an unemployment office in Detroit. Remarkably, every black person shown in that report said they didn`t like what Carter was doing, and would consider voting for Reagan. Let`s examine that sentiment more closely with two blacks, (n Detroit, Dan Smith, a GOP convention delegate from California. Mr. Smith is a banker, and has been involved in Republican politics for eight years. In New York, Hazel Dukes will be a Carter delegate to the Democratic convention here next month. She`s an executive with New York State`s Off-Track Betting system, and last week, was elected to the nominating committee of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. Starting with you as the Reagan delegate, Mr. Smith in Detroit, what does Mr. Reagan and do Republicans have to offer blacks this year to make you want to support them?

DAN SMITH: I think Governor Reagan offers increasing economic prospects for the black community. Under the Carter administration, we have lost tremendous gains acquired through difficult struggle over the last 15 years, and another four years of Carter economics could have a devastating effect on the black community.

MacNEIL: Ms. Dukes?

HAZEL DUKES: I disagree wholeheartedly with that statement. Under the Carter ad-ministration, for blacks, we have gained more than we ever had in any administration. That includes Lyndon Johnson and John Kennedy.

SMITH: You mean, we gained --

MacNEIL: Just let Ms. Dukes finish her point, then I`ll come back to you, Mr. Smith.

DUKES: Appointments in the Small Business Administration. We have been able to enter into that market that otherwise had been closed to us.

MacNEIL: Mr. Smith?

SMITH: Well, we may have gained in terms of a few appointments, but if you really look at the facts, four years ago, black family income as a percentage of white family income was on an upswing. It was 62 percent. But during the last four years under President Carter, it has now dropped to 54 percent. Black youth unemployment is as high as it has ever been, and the prospects for us to remain economically self-sufficient -- at least move into that direction -- under the Carter administration has been significantly reduced.

MacNEIL: What do you say to that?

DUKES: That`s not true. And -- but the record should say -- I would like for you to tell me, under the Republican administration, what has ever been done for blacks? Your platform today speaks of nothing that is important to us. What have they ever done to say to blacks that `we understand you`? Under the Nixon regime, when we were trying to pull ourself up by the bootstrap, under the Economic Opportunity, that was the first thing that he went in to dismantle. There was a training program for blacks and poor and minorities, not bankers. Not those of us who have succeeded in education, but those who had not, to bring them into the mainstream. That was the first thing he wanted to dismantle. I would like to know from you, what is it -- you all have been involved eight years. I`ve been involved 20 years. I`d like to know what have the Republicans ever presented in any way ? When I look at your delegation there, that`s the first thing that speak to it.

MacNEIL: Let`s give Mr. Smith a chance.

SMITH: Well, there`s several things that we can point to. If we are about the business of making the black community economically self-sufficient so that we are not dependent on welfare and public service programs that the Democratic administration dangle like carrots at election time, I think we`re gonna have to took at the record that exists. First of all, let me point out that we`re talking about Governor Reagan, and not President Nixon. If you are talking about the platform, there`s some very important language in there. Let me -- let me quote. It talks in the platform that we`re about to adopt tonight that `Republicans want to stand shoulder to shoulder with black Americans to eliminate racism, that they are committed to improving black economic conditions through economic development." It rejects turning the poor into governmental wards. And if you want to see some positive results the Republicans have achieved for the black community, just look at the area of black enterprise. How else do you account for the fact that of the 100 largest black businesses in America, 68 were started under a Republican administration? And you were talking about bankers. Bankers helped make blacks economically independent, something that the Democratic administrations haven`t been interested in. I`ll point out that 32 of the 48 largest black banks have been founded under Republican administrations.

MacNEIL: Ms. Dukes?

DUKES: That`s true. As the president of New York State NAACP, that`s pretty hard for me to believe that your platform would want to stand shoulder to shoulder, when last week Governor Reagan refused to come before our convention. That`s shoulder to shoulder with nothing under this sun that could have been more important than for him to come to Miami. So that platform to me will be another slick piece of propaganda tonight that you will be adopting to the black community. We`re not at all fooled. Let me set the record straight on economics, to banking. That`s true. All of us. for many reasons, of this country of racism can not be bankers. The majority of blacks in this country have had a problem with the educational system, and you go right down the line. So, there is a need tor programs to get them into the mainstream. Not a carrot. I can name you program after program that have not been no carrot, that have been a success, and many blacks have been able to get into the economic ladder. But that was a door open for them, for them to at least have a chance. But the Republicans have always closed the door on the chance.

MacNEIL: Mr. Smith?

SMITH: Well, I think you`re going to find under a Reagan administration that the sort of decline in success that we`ve witnessed during the last four years is going to be reversed. After all, there are some facts we can look at. Black unemployment is higher under President Carter. Black family income is lower under President Carter. Under President Reagan, we`re going to sec programs like Congressman Kemp`s Jobs and Enterprise Zone Act, which create new incentives for disadvantaged areas. We`re going to take a look at welfare reform. Quite frankly, under Democratic administrations, we`ve taken the attitude it`s really best to keep poor people on welfare and not moving them into the mainstream of the American economy. We haven`t seen President Carter do anything to move blacks into lasting jobs in the private sector. If you notice, most of the jobs that President Carter has been advocating are public service jobs, jobs that are dead-ended, jobs that do not last, and jobs that can be jerked and yanked at election time.

DUKES: I beg your --

MacNEIL: Mr. Smith -- {to Dukes} Go ahead.

DUKES: I beg your pardon. I live in a Republican county. That`s just the opposite. The Republicans have given theirs -- the public service jobs for their patronage. Kemp -- a Buffalonian who I know very well. I wouldn`t dare let you tell me about his record for the black community. In Nassau County, where I`m a resident, there has been nothing of the sort that you talked about that has ever happened in that county. You look at the counties or the states where there`s Republicans who`s in control, and you see what the black com-munity have gotten. That`s nothing. That`s untrue that the jobs in public service have not been long lasting. President Carter cannot tell big business -- what the Republican identify with -- that once a man or woman or boy or girl has been trained, that they should be accepted. So, of course, he`s prolonged public service employment, so they could at least stay on without returning back to the welfare rolls, or returning back to unemployment. But there was just so much he could do. There have to be a partnership with government at the local, at the state and federal level, as well as with the private sector.

MacNEIL: Can I ask, just in conclusion of this section. Mr. Smith, how many blacks do you think are likely to vote Republican this year, just from your own acquaintance?

SMITH: I think if the Reagan --

MacNEIL: I mean, what kinds of blacks?

SMITH: Okay. I think if the Reagan campaign makes a high key effort to pursue the black vote this year, I think it could easily be doubled from the traditional levels.

MacNEIL: The traditional levels being what?

SMITH: Being approximately 10 percent of the black vote. I think it`s not inconceivable that with a concerted effort, exposing the facts that the share of the black vote could go two, three, four times as high as that.

MacNEIL: Do you -- How many blacks would you think going Republican this year, Ms. Dukes?

DUKES: Well, if he said they`ve had 10 percent, they might pick up another five percent, after all the hoopla, and we gel the records on that the two men can debate.

MacNEIL: Do you think there might be some blacks voting -- more blacks voting Repub-lican?

DUKES: Might. Yeah, but the point that is key -- You ask what type of blacks, and I think you mean, the income level of blacks that will be voting. I would imagine those might be in the range of the bankers, of big business identifying with the other ethnic group, might be the ones that go that way.

MacNEIL: Is that the way you see it, Mr. Smith?

SMITH: Robin, let me put all of this in a little different context. And let`s use a little information from the NAACP. When President Carter came into this administration, we had low inflation and we had an economy on the move. Since then, we`ve had raging recession, increasing inflation, and what does the NAACP say about the black prospects under those sorts of conditions? In their report of their energy conference in early 1979. they said that there was a direct link between a good economy and increasing prospects fur the black community. How are you going to explain to the many blacks in this city of Detroit who are out of work because of Carter economics, because of his regulations of the auto industry that has made the American car uncompetitive abroad --

MacNEIL: Can we have a brief comment on that, and we`ll be hack?

DUKES: I know the direct correlation between that, but that`s not true. When President Carter first took office, he said to us Americans, that there would be an energy shortage. We turned deaf ears. So, I don`t think all those problems will be laid at the feet of President Carter when we debate the issue.

MacNEIL: Thank you. Jim?

LEHRER: Yes. Back to the labor question for just a moment. Mr. Dodt. there aren`t many of you here in Detroit. ?

DODT: There`s one delegate from Michigan.

LEHRER: Of the 1994 delegates, the count that we got is about 55 are members of labor unions. Why is that?

DODT: Labor has sold itself lock, stock and barrel to the Democratic Party, and the leadership is pushing always for the Democratic Party, and it just seems to -- Their public relations seems to work, to a point.

LEHRER: Mr. Meyers, how do you explain the fact that there aren`t many labor people here in Detroit?

MEYERS: Because the Republican Party does not reflect the needs or interests of the labor movement. The Republican Party --

LEHRER: Do you expect --

DODT: The needs and relations of the labor movement and the Republican Party, those needs are reflected in socialist legislation, which the Republican Party has often -- has traditionally rejected. The something- for-nothing philosophy the Democratic Party -- buy now. pay later -- just doesn`t go for Republicans. We believe if you got something, you pay for it now. If you don`t have the money, you just hold your cards and wait till you do. That`s just fiscal responsibility that is reflected both in the conservative congressional records and the policies of the national party and the leadership in the Republican Party.

LEHRER: Mr. Meyers?

MEYERS: I think that the -- if we kept on talking with Mr. Dodt. we could peel away his labor position, and show a true conservative in the real sense of the word. The UAW is a leading progressive force in our society, and Mr. Dodt. I really don`t believe that you agree with our program in the UAW. I think that --

LEHRER: Do you? Let`s ask him. Do you``

DODT: What program? Which -- such as national health insurance?

MEYERS: Yes, national health insurance.

DODT: No. I do not.

MEYERS: I assumed that.

DODT: The reason -- okay, number one. I am the recipient right now of the best health care plan in this world. I got that under the collective bargaining process, which means that I -- when I voted my -- cast my vote for that article in that constitution that we -- that I have said. I am taking bread out of my family`s mouth to get that national -- the health care plan. And when I did that. I got it. I went and got that for good. Now they go the other route with national health insurance. That takes away from me. I can see Mr. Bluestone getting a phone call from Pete Estes saying. `You want national health insurance, fine. It`s just been passed by Congress, signed by the President Carter, and congratulations, we`re canceling your health care plan.` Now. wait a minute. You know, why did I go through all that. It`s ridiculous.

LEHRER: Gentlemen, we`ve only got a little over a minute left. I want to ask Mr. Smith the same question about how come there are only, out of the 1994, there are only 56 blacks here?

SMITH: Clearly, the Republican Party has not done an effective job of laying its full case before the black community. Those black delegates who are here at the convention are dedicated to seeing that the case is put for. We believe there is a black case for Reagan this year. We think the economic conditions are justified. We think that Reagan`s past per-formance justifies our support.

LEHRER: All right. Ms. Dukes, do you agree? Why do you think -- Well, I know you don`t agree. (Smith laughs) Why do you think there aren`t more blacks here in Detroit with Mr. Smith?

DUKES: The Republican Party do not represent anything that the black community would be able to see or believe. I think Bill Brock last year had said that he wanted to go out into the black communities and begin working. He was stopped, because they want no move-ment to make them look they was moving from the conservative view that they had. So that was stopped. Also. Bill Brock was almost stopped for even thinking to do such a thing to the black community.

LEHRER: All right. Thank you. We have to leave it there. Ms. Dukes and Mr. Meyers in New York, gentlemen here in Detroit, thank you. And good night. Robin.

MacNEIL: Good night. Jim.

LEHRER: From Detroit. I`m Jim Lehrer. Thank you and good night.