The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

MR. LEHRER: Good evening. I'm Jim Lehrer. On the NewsHour tonight, Tom Bearden updates the Olympics bombing story; two experts discuss the search for the bomber; Betty Ann Bowser updates the TWA Flight 800 story; then two members of Congress look at the federal response to the new terrorism threats; and Lee Hochberg reports on the changing timber industry in the Northwest. It all follows our summary of the news this Monday. NEWS SUMMARY

MR. LEHRER: President Clinton talked about terrorism with congressional leaders at the White House today. They discussed expanding the FBI's wire tap authority and placing chemical tracers and explosives, among other things. Those two measures were dropped from the anti-terrorism bill passed earlier this year. Before the meeting, the President called on all Americans to help make the country safer.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: People who do this kind of thing are always trying to stay ahead of the curve. Whatever we do, they'll try to find some other way to get around it. That means that this has got to be a long, disciplined, concerted, united effort by the United States. And I think we ought to take every tool we can and take every possible advantage we can because this is not going to be easy, but we have shown that we can get results when we work together and do the right thing and the smart thing.

MR. LEHRER: A bipartisan group of 16 members of Congress will meet tomorrow with White House Chief of Staff Panetta to design a plan to fight terrorism. And a G-7 summit on terrorism begins tomorrow in Paris. The Clinton administration plans to ask for international airport security standards, plus other measures, such as requiring identification numbers on vehicles and vehicle parts and standardizing passenger and cargo manifests. On the TWA crash story today, investigators are continuing to search the waters off Long Island for bodies and clues. At an afternoon news conference, the vice chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board said 161 bodies have now been recovered. He also said analysis of the cockpit voice recorder was not expected to definitively indicate the cause of the crash. Flight 800 exploded in the air July 17th, killing all 230 people on board. In Atlanta today, an FBI official said no suspects had yet been identified in the Saturday bombing at Centennial Park. David Tubbs said agents were sifting through a lot of data and he was confident the case would be solved. Fans went through additional security today on their way to Olympic events. Centennial Park will reopen tomorrow with a memorial service to the victims of the bombing. Two people were killed, one hundred and ten others were injured. We'll have more on the Atlanta bombing, TWA Flight 800, and federal terrorism legislation right after this News Summary. The television industry agreed today to broadcast three hours a week of educational programs for children. President Clinton announced the agreement at a White House meeting of TV executives and others involved in the issue. A CBS executive said the industry faced a difficult task.

LES MOONVES, President, CBS Entertainment: We are prepared to go forward based on this agreement to develop new programs of the highest quality that will garner the largest possible audience. It will not be easy. A television programer is a little like a Major League baseball player. The best in the majors make out seven out of ten times. Given the intense competition for viewers, it is hard both in prime time and in children's programming to launch new shows, and we fail far more often than we succeed. It is easier to put on more programming. It is far harder to put on more quality programming that kids will actually want to watch.

MR. LEHRER: The Federal Communications Commission was urged to approve the new regulations in a vote scheduled later this week. The FCC will be responsible for certifying which programs are, in fact, educational. Today's agreement does not affect cable TV programers. Cable television is not licensed by the FCC. Pat Buchanan today declined an invitation to speak to the Republican National Convention on video. Buchanan opposed Bob Dole for the presidential nomination in Republican primaries, and he's still not endorsed Dole. Babe Buchanan, the candidate's sister and campaign chair, said the offer was an affront to Buchanan and his supporters. She said he was being treated shabbily by convention organizers. They said none of Dole's other eight primary election challengers had been asked to speak in person at the convention. The Chinese government conducted a nuclear test explosion today. An official said it would be the last of such tests. It occurred at China's main test center in the Northwestern part of the country. China's state-run news agency reported the test was successful but gave no details. And that's it for the News Summary tonight. Now it's on to Olympics bombing, TWA Flight 800, a new terrorism threat, and the changing timber industry. FOCUS - SECURITY MATTERS

MR. LEHRER: Security is our principal focus tonight. We begin with the Olympics bombing story. Margaret Warner has that.

MS. WARNER: This weekend, the spotlight on the Olympic games took a grim turn from the exploits of the athletes to a deadly explosion in Atlanta's Centennial Olympic Park. Today was a day for recovery and continued investigation. Tom Bearden begins our report.

TOM BEARDEN: Security precautions in Atlanta have been tightened considerably in the wake of Saturday's early-morning bombing. Olympic spectators have found longer lines and more thorough searches of their bags as they enter Olympic venues and ride public transportation. The park where the attack took place is scheduled to reopen tomorrow with a memorial service for the victims. Authorities say it will still be a public venue but say security will also be beefed up.

BOB BRENNAN, Atlanta Olympics Spokesman: There will be increased physical presence of law enforcement officers from all over the state. There will be increased electronic surveillance which we will not discuss in detail, as you know.

MR. BEARDEN: Visitors appeared mostly undeterred by the tragedy that left two people dead. They still flocked to the competition sites and many seemed relieved, rather than annoyed by the increased security precautions.

VISITOR: A little bit of this as opposed to somebody dying because of a bomb? You know, five minutes of my time isn't going to kill me, and I don't think it's going to hurt anybody else here either.

BOB BRENNAN: And the public has been remarkably patient, willing to stand in line, and, indeed, in some cases thanking us for the extra steps we're taking in terms of security. And they're not reflecting any complaints about the fact that we're having to keep them waiting a little bit longer to get in the stadium.

MR. BEARDEN: Bomb threats continued over the weekend. A shopping mall was evacuated, two subway stations, a bank, and a church were temporarily closed. Beverly Harvard is Atlanta's police chief.

BEVERLY HARVARD, Atlanta Police Chief: Well, I don't know if there appear to be copy cats, because we were receiving threats prior to the incident. We've not--we dispatch and we look into every call that we get. I mean, the same protocol is initiated on all calls, and to this point this is the only device, the one that actually went off is the only device that has actually been found.

MR. BEARDEN: Despite the continued threats, officials say they're determined to maintain the spirit of the games.

CHIEF BEVERLY HARVARD: It has not changed the atmosphere. And the athletes, the citizens, and the visitors, uh, have a resolve that as tragic as this incident was, uh, and is, that, uh, people are not going to be held hostage to an individual or individuals who would perpetrate an act like this and totally make it change all the positive things that were going on as it relates to the games, itself, as it relates to the positive spirit, uh, and atmosphere of the city.

MR. BEARDEN: But questions remain about how well the massive security apparatus responded to the one bomb threat that turned out to be real. Critics charge that the 911 operator who answered the original warning call didn't alert officers in the park quickly enough. Chief Harvard says police procedures were adequate and followed properly.

CHIEF BEVERLY HARVARD: We do have a protocol as it relates to bomb threats and that protocol was followed. An officer was dispatched to the location of the call.

MR. BEARDEN: Was there a delay, as has been alleged, about reporting this threat to the people in the park, the other security officers?

CHIEF BEVERLY HARVARD: No, there was not necessarily a delay. You have to keep in mind, uh, the call and then the officer in the park being notified by the security guard of a suspicious package when you go back and look at the time frame. These things were going on sort of simultaneously.

MR. BEARDEN: The FBI has taken the lead in the investigation and has shipped much of the physical evidence to Washington for analysis. This afternoon, agents and Chief Harvard held a briefing on the latest developments.

DAVID TUBBS, FBI Spokesman: An intensive investigation is continuing by the numerous law enforcement agencies involved. We are continuing to examine evidence and following up on a substantial amount of information that we are receiving. There have been no additional explosive devices found, nor any arrests made. As you would expect and has been reported, investigators are contacting and speaking with a large number of people. This is typical of any investigation, and the purpose is to gather as much useful information as possible by talking to anybody and everybody who may know something about the explosion. It is important not to draw any conclusions from questions that are being asked. There continues to be interest in composite drawings of a so-called suspect. This too is a normal part of an investigation, and should not suggest that we have identified the suspect. The FBI has not released any composite and does not intend to at this time. While it can sometimes be helpful to ask for public assistance by releasing a composite, for a variety of reasons we do not believe it would assist this investigation at this time. Many of you have asked for a transcript of the message called in on the 911 line from a pay phone just before the explosion. It's a very short message, so I will read it the way we have it. "There is a bomb in Centennial Park. You have 30 minutes." Say it again, "There is a bomb in Centennial Park. You have 30 minutes." As you can see, it was a very simple, non-specific message. There was no more information given, and there was certainly nothing in the call that would have given security at Centennial Park an idea of where to start looking for a bomb. As I described yesterday, the 911 call was made outside--at this pay phone outside the downtown Day's Inn. We continue to be interested in hearing from anyone who may have been in that area and who may have heard or seen something at that time approximately 1 AM. Our toll free number is still in operation and will remain in 24-hour operation. It is 1-800-905-1514. And as of about an hour ago, we have received 900 calls on that particular line. Right now, we have some composites that have been drawn, and I'm not willing at this time to label anyone a suspect. The composites were drawn of individuals who may have been seen in the area about the time of the explosion, and for one reason or another composites were drawn and if and when we're ready to label them as suspect, then we would be willing to put the composites up. We're not ready to do that at this time.

MR. BEARDEN: The FBI says the investigation is making progress and the agency is confident the case will be solved.

DAVID TUBBS: History leads me to believe we will make an arrest. We will continue working the case until we make an arrest.

MS. WARNER: Now some insight into what's involved in this type of investigation. We hear from two men with experience in similar cases. Jim Norris is a bomb expert who currently serves as director of the San Francisco Police Department's Forensic Services Division. Former FBI agent Clint Van Zandt served in the Bureau's behavioral science unit where he specialized in developing psychological profiles of criminals. He's now with Control Risks Group, a private security firm. Welcome, both of you. Thanks for being with us. Let me start by asking you both briefly to just tell us what, if anything, can we conclude about the likely perpetrator or perpetrators? Mr. Norris.

JIM NORRIS, San Francisco Police Department: [San Francisco] Well, I would say that given a use of a pipe bomb, which is a relatively easy thing to make, you can buy most of the components at a hardware store and then the propellent at a gun shop, that you don't--most of the people who do this are relatively unsophisticated. You're probably not looking at terrorists, for example.

MS. WARNER: So you're saying also it's probably domestic and not foreign?

MR. NORRIS: Well, not necessarily, but the level of sophistication needed is not very great. Most pipe bombs are actually made by teenagers.

MS. WARNER: I see. Mr. Van Zandt.

CLIFF VAN ZANDT, Former FBI Agent: Well, I think that's going to be the case. I think we find these type of explosive devices. These are not professional criminals. This is someone looking to make a statement, but they're making it in a very low-tech manner.

MS. WARNER: All right. Mr. Norris, let me start with you. What is in a pipe bomb? What are the materials in a pipe bomb, and how traceable are they?

MR. NORRIS: Well, the materials are a piece of galvanized pipe, a couple of end caps. Normally then the pipe is filled with smokeless powder, which is the constituent that is found in, in shells, shot shells, pistol shells, and then some way to detonate this. All you really need is some sort of spark or heat source, so it can be very simple.

MS. WARNER: And are most of these items traceable? Can investigators determine where they were purchased or where they were made?

MR. NORRIS: You might, in general, in a general sense, yes, but of course, galvanized pipe is very common. Smokeless powder is very common, and so unless you got lucky and encountered some unusual brand of one or the other, it would be very difficult to trace it from just that information.

MS. WARNER: And what about the caps are put on the pipe, is there anything about that that--

MR. NORRIS: Well, the pipe has to be threaded. That can either be purchased that way, or someone would have to have some equipment to do the threading. If that were the case, then physical evidence might be present at the suspect's residence. But as far as tracing it to the residence, not much from that information.

MS. WARNER: I see. And then also I understand that this particular pipe bomb was really three pipe bombs in a knapsack with a Tupperware container of nails and screws. Why would the bomber have put those in the knapsack?

MR. NORRIS: Well, the nails and screws in the Tupperware container, that's going to increase the shrapnel and cause more damage. Often when pipe bombs go off, you have large fragments that are propelled out, but they might not strike anybody. If you have a lot of fragments, your chances of injuring or killing somebody are greatly enhanced.

MS. WARNER: And are those materials traceable, do you think? I mean, are those useful to investigators?

MR. NORRIS: Well, they're probably not traceable, but they're useful. For example, the Tupperware container, if fragments of it are found that are large enough, there may be latent fingerprints on this type of evidence, and we can develop those fingerprints and then there are computerized databases that they can search against and millions and millions of people are in such databases and with even a partial latent print we might be able to identify the perpetrator.

MS. WARNER: And then what about the tape of the 911 call, are there--do people have voice prints that are distinctive?

MR. NORRIS: That's actually an area that's quite controversial. To some extent, yes, however, there's really no way to identify a person from their, their voice, especially a telephone conversation.

MS. WARNER: I see, you mean, in advance, so it might be something you'd use after the fact, but there's no database of people's voices anywhere?

MR. NORRIS: No. The big database is going to be latent fingerprints. For example, the phone and the phone booth, I'm sure, were carefully processed for latent fingerprints, and that would be a very fruitful area to look at.

MS. WARNER: Mr. Van Zandt, let's turn to the sort of psychological make-up or the background. If you were starting this investigation, what--tell us more about what you would conclude about the background or profile of this person and what would you do next?

MR. VAN ZANDT: Now, one of the first things, I think, the FBI is doing is very quickly suggesting it's probably domestic as opposed to foreign terrorism for some of the reasons we've just heard. Now forensically even though the pipe bomb, itself, may be a common pipe, it may be a common explosive, it may be common nails, and more of these items we start to find together, the greater chance there is to suggest who else has this many items together at one time. But psychologically, you have to find out or you have to determine was it one individual acting alone, is this one psychotic, is this one person who's made a decision, I want to be somebody, and the way I'm going to do it is act out like this? Is it a person who has made a decision, I don't like society, I don't like all those people having a good time because I'm a loner, I have a very poor self-concept of myself, and I'm tired of seeing people have such a good time, so I'm going to act out negatively, is it an organized group? I've heard people suggest it may or may not be a militia group. I think that's something the FBI has taken a hard look at too, but, Margaret, you go back to, as you and I discussed in the past, the rock in a pond theory. You throw that rock in a pond, you don't go to the furthest ripple out, you go to the closest ripple out. In this case, the FBI, ATF, GBI, and all the other agencies, they're going to be looking close to Atlanta. They're going to first have to rule out was it not only a homegrown terrorist in the United States, but is it someone very close to the source of this, and why has he or why has this small group chosen to act out, and I think we'll find out that out very quickly. I think this is the type of crime, No. 1, that's going to be solved, and No. 2, these people or this individual is not going to be able to keep his mouth shut, and the FBI and the other agencies are going to find out about it.

MS. WARNER: Why do you think this is somebody who couldn't keep his mouth shut?

MR. VAN ZANDT: This is the type of offense I think people commit, and they want some recognition. This is almost the explosive equivalent of shooting John Lennon, doing something like that. There are going to be people who want to commit a negative act like this but they're going to want some attention. It's like when you go into a room. If you hold yourself hostage, nobody knows about it. The message never gets out. This person will have wanted the message to get out, but now, all of a sudden, you've got a tremendous, you've got an international attention being focused on this. This person is going to pull his head back in the shell very quickly, or this group will, but I think it's too late. They've already left telltale psychological clues about themselves out there that the investigators are going to get ahold of, they're going to take that information and run with it. And one person out of that thousand people who have called that 800 number so far, that's all it's going to take is one person to say, "You know, this guy next door to me was acting a little strange, and now he watches the news insatiably; he's got this appetite about it, and I don't know why he's so interested." The authorities will find out why.

MS. WARNER: Does the fact he made a 911 call tell you anything?

MR. VAN ZANDT: Well, it's interesting because he wanted to call attention to it. To me, when someone makes a call like that, I was- -I would anticipate this person may have stayed in the area because he wanted to see people run, he wanted to see people scatter, he wanted to see the end results of his handiwork. And to put all of those nails and everything else that he did in this, this wasn't someone who just wanted to make a big noise. He wanted to hurt a lot of people.

MS. WARNER: And do you think he might be the kind of person who would return to the scene?

MR. VAN ZANDT: I think he's the type of person who would have stayed there to see what happened, and I think if he hasn't been scared away too far, he may come back in again to see what the activities are like in the area where he was able to disrupt those activities a few days ago.

MS. WARNER: Now let me ask you both, because you've both been involved in a lot of high profile cases including the unabomb case. Why do you think the FBI right now, for instance, is unwilling, and Mr. Norris, why don't you speak to this, to release at this point, say these composite sketches they've made of people based on the surveillance cameras?

MR. NORRIS: Well, it's often difficult to get a real likeness of an individual, especially if the individual is a common-looking person, let's say a white male, 35 years old. You're likely to have too many suspects at that point.

MS. WARNER: I see. Anything to add to that?

MR. VAN ZANDT: No. I think the same thing. You want to be careful you don't have too target rich of an environment, so all of a sudden you've taken in 60, 70, 80 percent of the population in the area. You have to--you have to limit that down, so what the sketch is going to help you do, a sketch., a profile, a background of the person who did that, that allows you to take the whole population and start to narrow it down so the investigators can go out and do what they do best, find out who did it.

MS. WARNER: And, Mr. Norris, would you say the same thing about why they're not actually releasing the audio tape? Or you would think at least people in the public would say, gee, it sounds like my next door neighbor.

MR. NORRIS: Yes, but again, if it's an individual who has a common accent, for example, in Georgia, in the Atlanta area, you're going to include too many people. Everybody's going to think it's his brother-in-law.

MS. WARNER: I see. And that just isn't helpful. Well, gentlemen, we'll have to leave it there, but thank you both very much.

MR. LEHRER: Still to come on the NewsHour tonight, TWA Flight 800, the federal response, and the changing timber industry. UPDATE - TWA FLIGHT 800 - THE SEARCH CONTINUES

MR. LEHRER: Now that continuing investigation into the crash of TWA Flight 800. Betty Ann Bowser reports.

MS. BOWSER: Recovery crews today looked for key pieces of the 747, large sections of the plane investigators say could prove that a bomb caused the crash. Yesterday using sonar, the front section of the plane was located about a mile and a half from the rear, which was found last week. Investigators believe that when Flight 800 was at 13,700 feet, an initial explosion blew it away from the rest of the 747. As the cockpit fell into the Atlantic, the main cabin continued to fly for less than 30 seconds before it too burst into a fireball. In debris from the rear of the plane, investigators have found the two black boxes and three of the aircraft's four engines. In the other large area of debris they've located parts of the cockpit, first class, and business sections. The U.S.S. Grapple, a Navy ship capable of hoisting huge pieces of the 747 from the ocean floor, is expected to be operational by this evening. Investigators hope this will allow them to bring up chunks of aluminum that covered the front of the plane where they believe the explosion took place. The aluminum can be tested for traces of explosives. All this comes amid renewed criticism from families of victims who complain the emphasis has shifted away from recovery of bodies and to recovery of the aircraft.

JOSEPH LYNCHNER, Relative of Victim: We're concerned that the priorities of the investigation are shifting. We believe that the investigation may have taken priority over the recovery of the bodies, and, umm, we are certainly very concerned about that, that occurrence, and we have to make absolutely certain that every single loved one comes out of the water.

MS. BOWSER: At their daily briefing late this afternoon, federal officials said recovery of bodies continues to be their first priority.

ROBERT FRANCIS, Vice Chairman, NTSB: Excuse us for being late this evening. Joe and Denise and I were in talking to the families this afternoon, and it lasted a little longer than we'd anticipated. And I must say they're, they're doing better than I would have expected, and I think better than I would be doing. One of the wonderful things was the number of them who are thinking about those divers, the, the appreciation that they have for the work that's being done out on the water. The sound spectrum analysis group is continuing to work on Washington on, on the CVR, and let me just read you a short statement here. This is not complete, but, but is probably of interest. The group found no acoustic evidence regarding the source of the catastrophic event as recorded on the cockpit recorder, and that is the area recorder in the cockpit, as opposed to the channels that are on the pilot's microphones. It is doubtful that the CVR recording alone will be definitive in determining the cause of this catastrophe.

MS. BOWSER: Tomorrow investigators hope to actually raise large sections of the plane for the first time. When the U.S.S. Grapple is in place and capable of lifting objects weighing thousands of pounds. FOCUS - FIGHTING TERRORISM

MR. LEHRER: Now fighting terrorism by legislation. We begin with this report from Kwame Holman.

MR. HOLMAN: In response to the explosion of TWA Flight 800 and the detonation of a pipe bomb at the Centennial Olympic Park, President Clinton convened a top level conference on terrorism at the White House this afternoon.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: I think when the bomb went off in the Centennial Olympic Park in Atlanta, that park literally became our national common ground, a symbol of our common determination to stand against terrorism, domestic or foreign, and to do everything we can to combat it.

MR. HOLMAN: One reason congressional leaders were invited was so that the President could try to convince them to re-examine measures that nearly became part of anti-terrorism legislation he signed in April. Specifically, the President wants to give law enforcement officials greater authority to use wire taps. That language was kept out of the original bill by an unusual coalition of conservative Republicans and liberal Democrats concerned about intrusions on civil liberties.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: I think the question is better if you have someone that you have a strong suspicion, and strong evidence is involved in terrorism, who is moving around all the time. And the traditional laws governing wire tapes which tie to residents and place of business don't operate, and we'll discuss that.

MR. HOLMAN: That President also wants explosive manufacturers to insert chemical tracers called "tagents" inside all explosives, including black powder such as was used in the Oklahoma City bombing and apparently in the Atlanta bombing as well. But today, the President avoided talking about why those measures were not included in the anti-terrorism bill the first time around.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: The main thing is we need to get the very best ideas we can and we need to move as quickly as we can to do everything we can to try to strengthen this country's hand against terrorism.

MR. HOLMAN: And Republican leaders wouldn't even hint at whether the provisions the President was calling for might be added in the future.

SEN. TRENT LOTT, Majority Leader: With regard to the Anti- terrorism Act of 1996, there are some more things that we can do working with the CIA and FBI and in terms of deportation. There are a number of things that we can do to help address the very critical issues, and we're looking forward to working with you on both domestically and in foreign.

MR. HOLMAN: The White House conference on terrorism lasted about an hour. Afterward Democrats were upbeat.

REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT, Minority Leader: We need to move, and we need to move this week, and we need to get something done so that the American people have confidence that this government is moving to prevent these terrorist acts from happening. This is a task for our country.

MR. HOLMAN: Republican leaders returned to the Capitol to announce a new congressional anti-terrorism task force which will meet tomorrow, but they warned legislative action may not come until September.

REP. NEWT GINGRICH, Speaker of the House: Again, I also think we shouldn't rush to pre-judge anything. I mean, there are active, open investigations in Saudi Arabia, in New York, and in Atlanta, and I don't think we should automatically start drawing lessons from a situation when we haven't even finished the investigation. I'm just saying I think you've got really look at what is your overall systematic plan for dealing with terrorism, where do you get the best punch for the dollar? I'm just suggesting to you that we want to be very helpful but we want to be helpful in a way that is effective and that actually gets the job done to save lives; it doesn't just make people feel good spending money, lots of activity, and then you discover, oh, here's this huge loophole that somebody over here was able to walk right through and pull off their act of terrorism.

MR. LEHRER: Now two key members of Congress who were at today's White House meeting, Senator Orrin Hatch, Republican of Utah, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and Representative John Conyers, Democrat of Michigan, who is the senior Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee. First to Sen. Hatch. How would you characterize that meeting you went to today at the White House?

SEN. ORRIN HATCH, Chairman, Judiciary Committee: It was a cordial meeting. It was one of concern by all concerned. I think it was a bipartisan meeting, and, and we discussed a lot of aspects of what happened. The FBI director and his top aides discussed this, as well as others involved in the administration, and then we talked about what we might do that might be further done to help solve some of these problems on terrorism. I thought it was a pretty upbeat meeting. I thought there was a lot of good to come from it.

MR. LEHRER: Congressman Conyers, anything you would like to add or subtract from that?

REP. JOHN CONYERS, [D] Michigan: No. I quite agree because we're working under the gun. We only have a week before we go out and recess, and I think the, the general issue that we are going to start working on starting tomorrow morning is whether we can agree on some things that can help fight terrorism that were frankly left out of the terrorism bill of just a few months ago. And if we can do that, then we can come back in September, look at some other things, and then work on the longer range plan that everyone thinks is really very important as well.

MR. LEHRER: Well, let's go to the two specifics that the President has mentioned, Sen. Hatch. First of all, expanding the wire-tapping capability as he said in that clip and he said to you all at the meeting, that, that makes it possible to wire tap in a mobile way, beyond just at a certain location. Would you be in favor of that?

SEN. HATCH: Well, he was talking about multi-point wire taps. I wrote the provision that was in the Senate bill, and I think that would be satisfactory to the President. I'm hopeful. I think it's something that we really should do because then we could follow the criminal, the terrorist in this case, or the Mafia member, or whatever, the drug pusher, from phone to phone, rather than having to get special warrants or special rights to go and tap each phone. It would be a way to go. We've have to have appropriate securities and protections for civil liberties and so forth, but I think we have a possibility of getting that. Emergency wire tap use, the President wanted it too broad in the first instance long ago when we were discussing this matter. Hopefully we can do something there as well.

MR. LEHRER: Let me ask Congressman Conyers on that. How do you- -do you support the wire-tapping provisions that the President wants?

REP. CONYERS: Well, I didn't before. I was a little concerned about the civil liberties part of it. But what we're doing now is, I think, we're tailoring it a little bit more carefully than, than it was in the original bill. And I think that we're going to get more support for it. There, there are always civil liberties issues, but we're faced now with increasing technology that causes us to go back and revisit some of these questions.

MR. LEHRER: Give me an example of the kind of thing that the President, law enforcement wants to do that they cannot now do under existing laws, Congressman Conyers.

REP. CONYERS: Well, right now, you have to get a wire tap order for each phone, which means that it doesn't take anybody very long to figure out you carry a bag full of phones and when you figure one is being tapped, you pick up another phone. This means--

MR. LEHRER: You're talking about cell phones. You're talking about mobile phones.

REP. CONYERS: A mobile phone.

SEN. HATCH: Any phones.

REP. CONYERS: Or any kind.

MR. LEHRER: Any kind.

REP. CONYERS: So, so the whole idea is, is to follow the person, as the chairman has said.

MR. LEHRER: Rather than the tap?

REP. CONYERS: Rather than the tap. As a matter of fact, what's happened is that new technology has made tapping a phone outdated and obsolete.

MR. LEHRER: Yeah. Now, Senator, do you think this can be done this week?

SEN. HATCH: Well, I think some aspects can be done. I think we've got to look for those areas where we --

MR. LEHRER: I mean on the wire tapping, on the wire tapping.

SEN. HATCH: Well, it may be. We're going to have to try and make sure we get everybody together. There's another aspect. In digital telephony, we haven't funded the digital telephony bill, which the FBI has got to have in order to be able to do some of the things to protect our public that it really should, but it's a lot more than that. You know the terrorism bill we passed back in April isa very good bill. It's doing a lot of good. None of these--none of these changes that the President is calling for would have made much of a difference in either of the recent terrorist incidents in this country. Well, what--

REP. CONYERS: Except for tracing black powder.

SEN. HATCH: Well, what is important, I don't think that tracing black powder would either.

MR. LEHRER: Yeah. Let's talk about that. Congressman Conyers, the President wants the tracing materials, what they're called the tagents put into black powder. Do you support that?

REP. CONYERS: I do, and, and even more basically, I support the study that will, will tell us how we can do it without diminishing the effectiveness of the powder. But black powder is the domestic terrorism choice of weapons or instrument, and if we're studying terrorism and excluding--including everything but that-- fertilizer's okay, but black powder is not--then that means we're, we're, we're skipping around the bush, and I'm in the process of persuading the distinguished chairman of the Senate Judiciary to join us in really getting down to business. We know what it was in, in Atlanta, at the Olympics. It was black powder.

MR. LEHRER: Senator, how do you feel about the black powder provision?

SEN. HATCH: Well, it's a very controversial issue, because both Democrats and Republicans can make some pretty good arguments why the four major manufacturers should not have to put tagents because there's a concern about safety, so we have provided for a six-month study which should be underway but they found out--I found out today that the Treasury Department hasn't even started it yet. There's been four months, and they haven't started. They claim there's no moneys for it, but they have plenty of moneys down at Treasury they could use.

MR. LEHRER: When you say--what's the problem with putting this in the black powder? What's the negative about doing that?

SEN. HATCH: Well, one of the problems is, is you've got all these sporting groups and other people who make use of black powder who feel that it will be used to persecute them, much as some of the anti-gun legislation of the past has--

MR. LEHRER: You're talking about the National Rifle Association.

SEN. HATCH: No. No. You're talking about sports people all over the country, whether they belong to the NRA or not, people who just plain know that--and there are some other arguments too. There are four basic manufacturers in this country of black powder. And, frankly, you might be able to show who is the manufacturer, but to go from there isn't going to solve that particular problem down there in, in Atlanta.

MR. LEHRER: Well, how do you feel about it, Senator? Would you support this or not, the--

SEN. HATCH: Well, the President's asked for a study. I could live with a study. The whole tagent issue is an important issue because, you know, our miners, our rock quarries, our people who use explosives to do legitimate business activities are deathly afraid that some of these tagents could cause danger and harm to their workers, and that goes for black powder as well.

MR. LEHRER: Congressman Conyers, what about those objections?

REP. CONYERS: Well, we're here to move this process forward, Jim. We don't want to turn this into something like the House floor gets on some evenings toward the end of the session. What, what we're trying to do is resolve the issues that can easily be agreed upon. Chairman Hatch agrees with me that black powder is a more difficult issue, so it won't be solved first.

SEN. HATCH: That's right.

REP. CONYERS: We'll be getting, we'll be getting to it, but we've got to face the facts. We're not talking about international terrorism. One of the things that has hit home to the American people, and I think it's resonating even among the people that represent them in Washington is that there's an awful lot of home grown domestic terrorism that's been going on unattended and uninvestigated for far too long, and now it's at everybody's doorstep. We've got to deal with it as fairly and quickly as possible. And that's why the President called us together today.

SEN. HATCH: Well, Jim, let me just say though that I think the tagent issue is really kind of a red herring here. The real issues are these. Who's going to handle international terrorism at international sporting events? Shouldn't the federal government be involved? The answer is yes. Who should handle investigations and airport security? I think the FBI ought to do it, rather than the Transportation Department. I think the they have more expertise. They don't particularly want to do it, but I think they ought to do it. You get into digital telephony, which is really the wave of the future that we have got to give law enforcement the right to get into digital telephony, and we've got to fund that. That's something we need to do. Last but not least., you know, one of the biggest delays in the Oklahoma City bombing happens to be the Miranda rule. Why is it that we can't change the Miranda law to allow purely voluntary confessions to be admissible into a court of law, even though Miranda warnings have not been given? You know, as long as we, we have the courts protect the civil liberties of the people, if they give voluntary confessions, why should we have to put up with delay after delay after delay? These are things that would make a real difference, not something like black powder.

MR. LEHRER: Congressman Conyers, do you agree with that?

REP. CONYERS: Well, I don't--I don't want to close off this discussion on your program as important as it is and a lot of people watch it, but this is what we're going to be doing tomorrow, and the next day, trying to see what we can agree on.

MR. LEHRER: I got you.

REP. CONYERS: There are a lot of --these are tough issues, and we've been debating them a long time.

MR. LEHRER: Yeah.

REP. CONYERS: But we're in a new--we're in a new era now, and the American people know that domestic terrorism can happen to you at an airport, at a--

MR. LEHRER: Yes, sir.

REP. CONYERS: --sporting situation, or anywhere.

MR. LEHRER: All right. Thank you both very much.

SEN. HATCH: Nice to be with you.

REP. CONYERS: You're welcome. FOCUS - NEW LEAF

MR. LEHRER: Now the timber industry begins to change the way it does business. Lee Hochberg of Oregon Public Television reports.

LEE HOCHBERG: For years, timber companies have been under fire for their tree cutting methods. Many biologists say valuable animal habitat gets destroyed when trees come down. They say industrial clear-cutting, where hundreds of acres are cut and burned and a single profitable specie replanted, eliminates the biodiversity animals need. Trees are still being sawed down on America's private timber lands, but the timber industry says things are actually much different in these forests today.

JOHN McGHEHEY, Stimson Timber Company: There's been a very basic philosophical change. I've got to learn how to harvest timber here and also take care of the elk and the owls and the deer at the same time.

MR. HOCHBERG: John McGhehey is with Oregon's Stimson Timber Company.

JOHN McGHEHEY: It used to be in a clear-cut unit like this we'd cut all the trees per acre. All of them are out here. Now what we're doing is we're trying to leave an average of two trees per acre, and we leave these trees for specialized wildlife habitat. And if you're in a very large area, those trees add up to actually making a special little grove for wildlife around next to the water, and so you have this benefit.

MR. HOCHBERG: The industry is also leaving two dead trees or snags on every acre.

JOHN McGHEHEY: And these trees then will become the habitat for woodpeckers, particularly the big ones that need the larger tree, and there's a good example, one right here. You can see the holes up there.

MR. HOCHBERG: The mandate to leave trees standing is part of a timber industry program to patch up its public image. It calls it its sustainable forestry initiative. Two hundred members of the American Forest & Paper Association agreed to the initiative. They promised to limit clear cuts, which have measured hundreds of acres, to a maximum 120 acres each. The promised to replant trees promptly and to leave some parcels of land untouched.

JOHN McGHEHEY: When you say two trees per acre, you know, that doesn't sound like very much, but we're dedicating to wildlife 1 percent of our land base right just for openers, and that's a lot of land when you think of it that way.

MR. HOCHBERG: The industry is leaving buffer zones of uncut trees along fish-bearing streams to prevent erosion and protect dwindling fish run. And in selected spots, it's taking the advice of biologists and dumping woody debris into rivers to create better environments for fish. First year costs are $100 million in employee training and unharvested timber, but McGhehey says the practices make good business sense. That's because the industry wants to head off regulations in the 44 states that have not yet regulated private timber land. And it wants to be sure that the federal government doesn't shut down private tree farms to save animals at risk.

JOHN McGHEHEY: I bought his to harvest timber and the public that expects the wildlife and esthetics are going to get their fair share too because if I don't provide that to them, they could put me out of business. I mean, I could just be all over with, and this is a very poor investment then I made here.

MAN: You're planning what you're going to plant before you harvest. That's my real question.

SPOKESMAN: Basically, yeah, we have like a five-year plan, and we know basically we're going to harvest every year for the next five years.

MR. HOCHBERG: The industry is using its sustainable forestry campaign as a marketing tool. Stimson Timber has taken several lumber buyers to its tree farms to try to convince them its new methods make it a good long-term supplier of timber.

EDY McCARTNEY, Parr Lumber: A tree planted here is going to provide a lot more fiber than what was harvested.

SPOKESMAN: Yeah.

EDY McCARTNEY: Is that something that you see throughout your lands on a continual basis?

SPOKESMAN: Yeah.

MR. HOCHBERG: Edy McCartney, the purchaser from Portland's Parr Lumber Company, says Parr currently gets one quarter of its wood from Stimson. Her main concern--

EDY McCARTNEY: Is supply, and what we're going to have to build with in 10 years, and where do we align ourselves, who do we align ourselves with. We want to align ourselves with companies that are going to be there in ten years and twenty years and thirty years.

MR. HOCHBERG: While these buyers seem sold on Stimson's sustainable forestry, many environmentalists are not.

PAUL KETCHAM, Conservationist: I think it's a charade, I really do.

MR. HOCHBERG: Paul Ketcham of the Portland Audubon Society calls the industry's new campaign public relations. Ketcham says the industry has worked hard to expedite logging on public lands, so he doubts the industry has suddenly become committed to saving species on its own private lands.

PAUL KETCHAM: This sustainable forestry initiative does nothing to address the clear cut. Having a couple of trees standing in there isn't really going to do a lot for, for wildlife.

MR. HOCHBERG: Many biologists agree the industry's program is only a start. Oregon State University's Dr. David Perry.

DR. DAVID PERRY, Forest Biologist: Those practices alone will not, in my opinion, maintain viable populations of spotted owls, marbled murrelets, the pine martins, the species that really need older, more complexly structured forests. The sustainable forestry initiative would not be enough.

MR. HOCHBERG: And critics say the industry program is suspect because the panel of foresters that make sure timber companies live up to the program was hired by the industry, itself.

PAUL KETCHAM: To me, it seems kind of tantamount to the, to the tobacco industry saying, well, we are going to develop a safe cigarette, and we are going to do the research on the safe cigarette, and we're going to tell you that it's okay to smoke the safe cigarette, and just believe us, trust us, it's okay.

MR. HOCHBERG: Independent certification might satisfy both industry and environmentalists. Several independent certifiers have emerged. One of the largest, called Smart Wood, sets up its own standards and awards seals of approval to products made from certified forests. A California-based Smith and Hawken Garden Store promotes its Smart Wood approved teak furniture, made from wood grown in certified forest in Java.

WOMAN: Basically what that seal is saying is that it's not hurting the forest and--

MR. HOCHBERG: Though the concept is new in the U.S., 40 European retailers have agreed to sell only products made from certified wood. The problem for marketers is that prices can run 10 percent higher, but at Purdue University study found 68 percent of affluent American consumers are willing to pay a bit more fore certified products. It's a sales pitch that's working at Smith and Hawken.

DANA DICKENSON, Store Manager: Definitely, it's been a selling point, and a valued part of the sale to a customer that we have the certified Smart Wood seal. It's definitely a factor in people's decisions to purchase.

MR. HOCHBERG: But some, like wood products manufacturer Wade Mosby, are finding the market for certified wood is limited at best.

WADE MOSBY, Collins Pine Company: Most people that say they're environmentally friendly don't walk their talk when it comes to purchasing building materials that are certified.

MR. HOCHBERG: Mosby's Collins Pine Company received a commendation from the Clinton administration for its efforts to bring certified wood products to market, but it found its certified cherry flooring sold only in a tiny 5 percent niche market.

WADE MOSBY: It sells as a rustic flooring into areas like Santa Fe, Aspen, Vail, into rustic, large cabins, fairly high-priced cabins, in fact, you know, some $800,000 cabins owned generally by high income corporate executives, movie producers.

MR. HOCHBERG: Certified wood framing for home building didn't even find that big of a niche market.

WADE MOSBY: The general contractor, there are some exceptions obviously, but most contractors are looking for the cheapest thing that does the job.

MR. HOCHBERG: Only in Austin, Texas, where city building code offers financial incentives to builders who use certified wood, did Collins Pine find demand for its home building wood. Without government incentives, many smaller timber companies say there isn't enough demand, and they can't make profits with sustainable forestry, especially if harvesting standards become even more rigorous and costly. Oregon timber owner Bond Starker.

BOND STARKER, Timber Company Owner: If the certifiers were to say absolutely no pesticides or herbicides of any kind at any degree, that would be something that we couldn't live with currently. If they were to say, you shall not clear cut anything, anywhere, that would be something we couldn't live with.

MR. HOCHBERG: Twenty-five small timber companies already have left the American Forest and Paper Association, unwilling to meet its requirements for sustainable forestry. Leery tree farmers and hesitant markets suggest wholesale change in the woods will be slow to take root. ESSAY - CONVERGING CULTURES

MR. LEHRER: Finally tonight, our Monday night essay. Richard Rodriguez of the "Pacific News Service" considers America's cultural heritage.

RICHARD RODRIGUEZ: We Americans are inclined, I think, to tell our national history by the way of England. We begin our history books with Plymouth Rock. This summer at New York's Brooklyn Museum, it's bee possible to consider an alternate narrative line, Father Spain, not Mother England. Consider these paintings, these carvings, these weavings of Latin America. Consider the Spanish past, which may also become our future. Although many countries of Europe wanted part of the new world, the two countries which have had the largest influence were Spain and England, those great Renaissance rivals. Here in the United States today we tend to remember the 13 original British colonies. We are apt to forget that a large portion of what became the United States of America was once the Colonial Territory of Spain. For three centuries, this is the way the Americas looked, the vice royalty of Peru extending from Santiago to Caracas, the vice royalty of New Spain extending from Guatemala well into what became the United States of America. This exhibit in the Brooklyn Museum is called "Converging Cultures," for what was distinctive about Colonial Spain was its genius for mixture, cultures, races, memory mixed in the South. Consider this 18th century statue of Mary. The ivory is from the Philippines, the carving is probably the work of Asian artisans imitating the dress Virgin Mary's popular among the Indians of the Andes. Thus, does the Spanish Virgin Mary become Asian by way of the Incas. The unifying pronoun of Latin America is the "we," the Spanish nos otros. New Spain was a culture of mixture, the wavering Baroque line, the connection. The great pronoun of Anglo America is the English "I." In 1588, the Spanish Armada was sunk by Elizabeth's Navy, but is it possible that the war between these two rivals is not over and that a proxy conflict is now taking place in the U.S.? American politicians promise voters a fence tall enough to separate us from Latin America. A movement is underway across the United States to declare the language of Queen Elizabeth I our national tongue, implicitly outlawing the language of Philip of Aragon from our public life. On the other hand, many Hispanics, especially in the Southwest, still refer to non-Hispanics as Anglos--an antique word, an absurd word for a population as ethnically diverse as ours, but a term also telling. As one British writer has remarked, the United States is the bratty child of England, though, of course, Latin America presses North every day. Here in New York the other day I got into a subway car and was surrounded by Spanish, Puerto Rican accents, Cuban, Dominican, and there was a group of Mexican men, men who told me they'd come all the way from the state of Pueblo in Mexico to find work in this city. As new Spain looms, fallen members of the House of Windsor fly to New York, where they are embraced by publishers and socialites. Here in New York, the cultural elite curtsies toward London. Publishers, editors, critics sound a distinctly British accent. The magazine that once represented the cities of the world, the "New Yorker," is today a celebration of Anglophilia with British fiction, British scandals, British eccentrics. The forces of England and Spain are on the move. The American eye is spreading throughout Latin America, but the Spanish nos otros is coming this way, and we may not be able to build a wall against it, for as converging cultures, this show at the Brooklyn Museum makes clear Latin America has a long genius for mixing. Tonight, the Spanish Armada is headed this way and will be swallowed hole by millions of Americans at Taco Bell. I'm Richard Rodriguez. RECAP

MR. LEHRER: Again, the major stories of this Monday, President Clinton urged congressional leaders to enact new measures to fight terrorism, investigators continued to search the ocean off Long Island for bodies and wreckage of TWA Flight 800, and the FBI said they had no suspects in the Centennial Park bombing in Atlanta. We'll see you tomorrow night. I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank you and good night.