The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

JIM LEHRER: Good evening. I'm Jim Lehrer. On the NewsHour tonight: A summary of today's news; a look at the court appearance of accused September 11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui; an update from the foreign minister of Jordan on an Arab proposal to President Bush for a Palestinian state; a report on the potential crisis of there being too few air traffic controllers; and a conversation with the President of Poland.

NEWS SUMMARY

JIM LEHRER: Zacarias Moussaoui tried to plead guilty today to new federal charges that could bring the death penalty, but a federal judge in Alexandria, Virginia, refused to accept it. She told him to think about it for a week. Moussaoui is the only person charged in the September 11 attacks. He has been acting as his own lawyer. We'll have more on this story in a moment. President Bush today vowed to continue working for peace in the Middle East, in spite of new violence. He spoke as he and Secretary of State Powell met at the White House with the foreign ministers of Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia. There were two Palestinian attacks Tuesday and Wednesday. We'll have more on the story later in the program. President Bush took the visiting President of Poland on the road today. Outside Detroit, Michigan, Mr. Bush told a gathering of polish- Americans that Poland was an important friend in the war on terror.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: America needs allies who share the same views about the world's opportunities. We need allies who understand the world's dangers. When America was attacked, NATO and Poland, led by this good man, immediately declared that an attack on one of us was an attack on all of us. (Applause)

JIM LEHRER: We'll have a conversation with the President of Poland later in the program tonight. Wall Street had another negative session today. The Dow Jones Industrial Average closed down 132 points at 8409; the NASDAQ was down 40 points at 1356. The chief operating officer of troubled media giant AOL-Time Warner is leaving. The departure of Bob Pittman was announced by the company today. It's said to be part of a major management shake-up. The head of the new Transportation Security Administration resigned suddenly today. No official reason was given for the departure of John Magaw, but wire services reported he was forced out over disagreements with the White House. The agency was created in response to the attacks of September 11. Admiral James Loy, a retired commandant of the Coast Guard, will succeed Magaw. A House subcommittee today found Congressman Jim Traficant guilty on nine counts of ethics violations. They arose from his conviction in an Ohio court last April on bribery, fraud, and tax evasion charges. Traficant said today he is innocent but expects to be expelled from the House. That's one of the punishments now being weighed by the House Ethics Committee. A California police officer pleaded not guilty today to assaulting a handcuffed teenage suspect. Two weeks ago, a bystander videotaped Officer Jeremy Morse, who is white, roughing up the youth, who is black. Morse's defense lawyer said the suspect had assaulted Morse first. A second officer, Bijan Darvish, pleaded not guilty today to charges of filing a false report about that incident. And that's it for the News Summary tonight. Now it's on to: Moussaoui in court; a Middle East update; an air traffic shortage; and the President of Poland.

FOCUS THE MOUSSAOUI

JIM LEHRER: Margaret Warner has our Moussaoui story.

MARGARET WARNER: Joining me to talk about today's dramatic developments are Philip Shenon of the "New York Times"-- he was in the Alexandria federal courtroom today when Zacarias Moussaoui tried to plead guilty; and Mary Cheh, professor of constitutional law and criminal procedure at George Washington University Law School. Welcome to you both.

Phil Shenon, beginning with you, take us inside the courtroom today. How did this unfold?

PHILIP SHENON: Well, it was the usual high drama from Mr. Moussaoui. He entered the courtroom for what was supposed to be a fairly routine rearraignment on a new indictment of him. Pretty quickly he made clear to the judge that he was very unhappy about his treatment by her in a series of motions he's made to the court. She asked him to enter a plea. He attempted to enter a plea, a rather arcane plea in which he would apparently concede to some of the charges against him but not others. She refused to accept that plea, entered a plea of not guilty on his behalf and very angrily he once again took his seat. There was a lot of back and forth then about unrelated evidentiary matters at which point Mr. Moussaoui then shot up from his chair, went to the lectern and announced that he had decided to enter a guilty plea and that he would accept responsibility for the conspiracy in the September 11 attacks.

MARGARET WARNER: What exactly did he admit to?

PHILIP SHENON: Well, we're not quite sure. He was... he repeated the claim he's made in the past that he was not directly involved in the September 11 attacks, but he did announce in a very clear voice that he was a member of al-Qaida and that he had pledged a loyalty to Osama bin Laden. He seemed to be suggesting that he was indeed a terrorist, he was involved in terrorist conspiracies, but perhaps he wasn't involved in this particular set of attacks and that that's what he hoped to prove to a jury who might spare him the death penalty.

MARGARET WARNER: Now, I gather that the judge was very startled and tried to stop him from continuing to talk and continuing to say things. Tell us about that.

PHILIP SHENON: This is -- this is nothing new in the relationship between the judge and Mr. Moussaoui. She repeatedly today had him take his seat over his protest. She did attempt to stop him at the moment he made these confessions about being a member of al-Qaida and being loyal to bin Laden. She did attempt to stop him and reminded him that anything he said in the court could and probably would be used against him later on.

MARGARET WARNER: And did she also say something to him about, you know you shouldn't be giving away this guilty plea? I mean this is something you usually would negotiate.

PHILIP SHENON: She said," You know, listen, Mr. Moussaoui, you know, trained lawyers would know that you could become involved in negotiations with prosecutors that could result in the prosecutors agreeing to spare him the death penalty. He didn't want to hear any of this. He said he had been thinking about this for months and again, in a very forceful, determined voice he said he wants to plead guilty. She said she would give him a week to think about it. He said he didn't need a week; he had already made up his mind.

MARGARET WARNER: Now, the wires had somewhat conflicting reports, but they both suggested that he said something like, well, I want to plead guilty because I want to save my life. Did he say something like that?

PHILIP SHENON: It's a little confusing to explain. We'll give it a shot. He seems to be saying that he believes that Judge Brinkima, is about to gag him, about to take away his right to defend himself in his own words, and the only way he knows how to save his life is by pleading guilty to these charges and then having a forum during the phase, the phase in which it's decided whether or not the death penalty is appropriate, during that penalty phase, he will make his argument that indeed, while he might be a terrorist, he was not part of this particular terrorist plot.

MARGARET WARNER: Now, you mentioned earlier that he was coming in to plead to a new indictment. And just explain why the prosecution felt it was necessary to have a newly worded indictment here.

PHILIP SHENON: The Supreme Court, in a ruling this summer, placed new restrictions on prosecutors in use of the federal death penalty. They now require, or it's believed a clear reading of the Supreme Court ruling is that grand juries are required to make clear what are the aggravating circumstances that should make somebody eligible for the death penalty. The original indictment of Mr. Moussaoui was before the Supreme Court ruling; it did not include these aggravating factors. The new indictment, in just a few paragraphs, includes mention of the fact that these were violent deaths, that Mr. Moussaoui was clearly of age and that there was in effect torture involved.

MARGARET WARNER: Now, he does have this stand by defense counsel that has been appointed for him, although I know he doesn't talk to them. What was l reaction to this?

PHILIP SHENON: They were startled, but they were... they were startled but they weren't startled, you know. There's not much Mr. Moussaoui can do to surprise them at this point. They are making the argument that he is indeed mentally ill and what happened today in the courtroom, along with all the other actions Mr. Moussaoui has taken in recent weeks, are proof that he should not be permitted to defend himself.

MARGARET WARNER: And finally, I gather that the judge in the last couple of weeks has given some indications that she might be rethinking her decision after month ago that he was legally competent to represent himself.

PHILIP SHENON: There has been... Mr. Moussaoui has filed literally dozens, scores of motions with Judge Brinkima arguing his case in increasingly erratic tones. The tone of these motions is increasingly belligerent, increasingly insulting. And she said today that if he kept it up, she would seriously reconsider her decision to allow him to represent himself.

MARGARET WARNER: Okay, Mary Cheh, now help us sort through all this as a legal matter. First of all, is Zacarias Moussaoui totally within his rights, representing himself in a capital murder case, to plead guilty?

MARY CHEH: Yes, he is in his rights and he can plead guilty. There's no specific constitutional statement that he can plead guilty, but he's allowed to enter a plea, and give up his defense. There has to be certain findings though, that he's competent to do so.

MARGARET WARNER: And then it was the judge within her sort of rights and authority today to reject it at least for now?

MARY CHEH: Yes, and I think it was very wise that she did so. An element of caution here is warranted because, as Phil Shenon pointed out, the erratic behavior of this defendant representing himself, the judge has to walk a pine line. He as a constitutional right to represent himself, but by the same token, she has to ensure that she doesn't allow him to go so far as to seriously create a situation where he's violating his own rights, in effect.

MARGARET WARNER: How unusual is something like this?

MARY CHEH: This is pretty unusual. I wouldn't be prepared to say it's unique, but it's quite unusual. First of all, in most cases, defendants want lawyers and have lawyers and need lawyers. And particularly in death penalty cases, it's important that they have lawyers. But he not only wants to represent himself, but now he wants to plead guilty, and he has a lack of appreciation of what he is forsaking both by representing himself and by pleading guilty or attempting to plead guilty the way he is.

MARGARET WARNER: Now, she, as we heard Phil Shenon describe, she said to him," you take a week and think about it." But she has a lot of thinking to do, doesn't she, before the hearing next Thursday in terms of whether she will allow him or should allow him to enter this plea for himself?

MARY CHEH: Well, the rules require that she satisfy herself that he's knowingly, voluntarily, intelligently entering this plea, so he has to be competent to do so. But what it may do is trigger for her, again, her second-guessing of the original determination that he's competent to represent himself. So she's probably analyzing whether it's appropriate now to reconsider that decision and perhaps order another examination and another determination whether he should represent himself.

MARGARET WARNER: Would that be the procedure if in fact she was having misgivings and again, as Phil mentioned, that she even mentioned that today, would she order this examination even before next week?

MARY CHEH: She could. She could act on her own motion and have him examined again and have the defense and the prosecution offer up whatever additional evidence they think. And in consideration of his behavior, the motions that he's filed betray a certain lack of reality about the process and about the facts. If he s intelligent and he understands things, well, that s only one thing. He may not be able to fully appreciate the reality. He might be so imbedded in this notion that this is just a farce to send him to the gas chamber, as he has said, that he really can t appreciate sufficiently the circumstances that he s in.

MARGARET WARNER: Now, let's say she determines that he's not competent and counsel is really appointed and takes this case on. Still, nonetheless, can the statements he made today be used in a trial against him?

MARY CHEH: Those statements ordinarily could be made. Any time you make a statement, no one's forcing him to make these statements -- he's making these statements and they're against his interests. And they would be admissible against him. There's only one sliver of possibility to keep them out. There is a provision in the rule about pleading guilty that statements made in connection with a procedure to plead guilty are not admissible because we want people to be able to have a give and take before they actually enter a plea. That's a bit of a reach, but you know, thinking for the defense side, if I wanted to limit the damage here, I would say, well, since he's representing himself, he doesn't have a full knowledge of how the rules apply, he may have thought that he was involved in perhaps negotiations to plead guilty, something like that. But otherwise, these statements will hurt him.

MARGARET WARNER: All right, now, let's go to thesecond scenario. What if she decides to go ahead and accept his guilty plea, if in fact he wants to enter it again next week? Then you mentioned that she still has to go through some process.

MARY CHEH: That's right. There's a federal rule, Rule 11, that requires that the judge fully determine that he's entering this plea knowingly and intelligently and voluntarily. She will go through a colloquy, a little discussion with him, explaining to him at length exactly what he waives and what he gives up by enter ago plea of guilty and the consequences of that. She'll make sure that it was voluntary. She'll ask him various questions and we had seen something of this with John Walker Lindh when she entered his plea of guilty, and you see this actually in all courts, to establish that there's a proper basis for him to enter that plea.

MARGARET WARNER: Including going through each one of the counts and getting him to say guilty to each count?

MARY CHEH: Well, you know, in his case, it's... I think every appearance that he's made so far seems to have this jack-in-the-box quality. You don't know when or what is going to pop out. Given the way he behaved today, I have my doubts that he's actually going to plead... enter a plea of guilty to the counts against him because he wants to maintain that maybe he's a member of al-Qaida, maybe he's involved, you know, in terrorist activities, but he didn't involve himself in September 11. Well, that's the essence of the indictment against him.

MARGARET WARNER: So if he were then to say, oh, well, no, I'm not guilty of that one, then we'd be back to square one?

MARY CHEH: Exactly. The judge won't accept a plea with all these qualifications and conditions. Now, there have been occasions where people can enter a plea as to some charges and then go to trial on the others. But he's not, it seems -- you know, one doesn't know -- but it seems as though he's not prepared to enter a guilty plea on the actual charges against him in that indictment. In which case, we're not anywhere. In addition, there are these aggravating circumstances that could lead him to get the death penalty. It's quite unclear to me that he's going to concede any of those if he wants to have a forum to try to save his life.

MARGARET WARNER: And a whole separate trial on those?

MARY CHEH: A separate proceeding.

MARGARET WARNER: All right, thank you both, Mary Cheh, Phil Shenon, thanks.

PHILIP SHENON: Thank you.

FOCUS VIEW FROM JORDAN

JIM LEHRER: Once more, the Israelis and the Palestinians, and efforts to move their peace process forward. Kwame Holman begins. (Ambulance siren wailing )

KWAME HOLMAN: Suicide blasts rocked Israel again last night in a second straight day of deadly attacks. Two Palestinian bombers blew themselves up almost simultaneously in a busy pedestrian area in downtown Tel Aviv. Three people were killed, dozens were injured. A militant group, the Islamic Jihad, claimed responsibility. The explosions came a day after Palestinian gunmen dressed as Israeli soldiers ambushed a bus filled with Jewish settlers in the West Bank, killing eight. Three militant Palestinian groups claimed responsibility for that attack. During the Israeli army's manhunt for the attackers, a gunfight in the West Bank resulted in the deaths of a Palestinian and an Israeli soldier. On Wednesday, Israeli warplanes struck a Palestinian factory in the Gaza Strip. Israeli officials claimed it was used to make bombs. Palestinians said it produced machinery. Since the Israeli army began occupying several Palestinian cities in the West Bank last month, there had been no Palestinian attacks on Israelis. The occupation followed back-to- back suicide bombings in Jerusalem June 20. This week, Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Authority condemned the recent attacks, but in a statement released yesterday, it blamed Israel for creating "the suitable atmosphere for such operations which we condemn." Today, the Israeli army cracked down on security, carrying out searches and questioning Palestinian students at an Islamic university in the West Bank. In more than 21 months of fighting since the Palestinian uprising began, some 600 Israelis and nearly 1,800 Palestinians have been killed. In New York Tuesday, diplomatic envoys from the U.S., Russia, the European Union, and the United Nations met. Calling themselves the quartet, the group worked to come up with a roadmap for settling the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. But the U.S. has split sharply with rest of the group on Arafat's leadership role. The Bush Administration has said Arafat has done little to stop the violence.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: (June 24) Peace requires a new and different Palestinian leadership so that a Palestinian state can be born. I call on the Palestinian people to elect new leaders, leaders not compromised by terror. I call upon them to build a practicing democracy based on tolerance and liberty.

IGOR IVANOV, Foreign Minister, Russia (Translated): It is only for the Palestinian people to decide who they want to have as their leader. It is their sovereign right. As for president Arafat, he is the legitimately elected leader of Palestine, and while he is in this capacity, we will continue to maintain our relations with him.

KWAME HOLMAN: But yesterday during a joint news conference with Poland's President, Mr. Bush renewed his demand for Arafat's ouster.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: The issue is much bigger than a person, as far as I'm concerned. Mr. Arafat has failed to deliver. I still feel that way. And I know the Palestinian people will be better served by new leadership.

KWAME HOLMAN: Today, after meeting in Washington with the foreign ministers of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Jordan, Secretary of State Colin Powell said the U.S. still was committed to forging a political solution for peace in the Middle East. The ministers were in town to present their detailed plan for creating a new Palestinian government. Later in the day, they delivered it to President Bush at the White House. He spoke before they met.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Our vision of peace says it ought to be two states living side by side in peace. Our vision for peace recognizes that there must be security in the region. Our vision of peace understands that too many Palestinians suffer. They suffer from lack of food and basic services. Our vision for peace understands that all parties have got responsibilities. The United States has a responsibility. The neighborhood has responsibilities. Israelis have responsibilities. Palestinians have responsibilities. And we will continue to work with all parties to achieve the pathway to peace.

KWAME HOLMAN: President Bush and the foreign ministers then met for about 30 minutes.

JIM LEHRER: And with me now to explain the plan is Jordan's foreign minister, Marwan Muasher.

Mr. Minister, welcome.

MARWAN MUASHER: Thank you.

JIM LEHRER: The plan that you offered today to President Bush for a Palestinian state, what kind of... give us a feel for what kind of government, in general terms, would result from this proposal.

MARWAN MUASHER: First of all, let me point out that we did not offer any concrete and detailed plan that is fully fledged. What we did was offer some ideas how to move forward from now to the elections and then beyond the elections to the end of the three-year period, after which we hope a Palestinian state will be established. We talked about the need to deal with the security aspects immediately. As you know, we are against suicide bombings from a moral and political point of view. We talked about ideas that we have that we are working with Palestinians to ensure that they rebuild their security apparatus and are able to move firmly against these organizations. We also talked about political reform and the ideas that the Palestinians have in order to reform the Palestinian Authority and come up with a constitution that basically have separation of powers and a responsible government. But we also talked about Israeli commitments and obligations, in particular the humanitarian needs. As you know, the situation in the Palestinian Authority is bleak, as the President pointed out, and needs immediate attention. We also need Israel to withdraw from areas it occupied to pre-September 28, 2000, if the elections are to take place. I think the road map from now to the elections is very clear.

We were very encouraged by what the President said both privately and publicly about his vision of peace, which includes a Palestinian state in three years and security for all countries of the region and his commitment to work together with all of us on a road map that would take us to that endgame.

JIM LEHRER: Now, what's the next step on your road map?

MARWAN MUASHER: I think the next step is to ensure, as I said, that the security situation is specified...

JIM LEHRER: But I mean within that, how do you -- security is security, is security. It depends on who's saying it. What do you need to happen next? What do you want to happen next to get to a security situation that works?

MARWAN MUASHER: As I said, there are efforts by all of us, Jordan, Egypt and the United States, to come up with a security plan that is coordinated with the Palestinians in order to put together the necessary arrangements and institutions to make sure that we move effectively against these organizations that practice terror. Remember, the Israelis today are in control of the West Bank, and they themselves have not been able to stop the terrorist attacks that took place in the last few days. We need to all work together in order to do this. But what we see today is a firm and clear Palestinian commitment to do that and to move on the security front so that we can deal with the political aspects of the problem.

JIM LEHRER: Move on the security front -- and as we just reported and as everybody knows, just in the last two days -- there were two new terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians. So what does that mean? What does that say about the state of security from the Palestinian side?

MARWAN MUASHER: I think what it means is that we cannot hope to just deal with the security aspect of the problem without also dealing with the other aspects, the economic situation or track and the political track. As I said, again, the Palestinians today are not in control of the West Bank. Mr. Sharon and the Israeli government is, and they could not stop these attacks. The only way we can do this is to put together all our efforts, both to work on the security aspects, but also to relaunch a political process that gives people hope that in three years they can witness the end of the occupation. I think the Arab states are very serious in working with the Palestinians in order to effect these security arrangements, and I think the results of these arrangements will start to occur soon.

JIM LEHRER: But you're not saying though, that you can stop the terrorist attacks?

MARWAN MUASHER: No one can say that we can 100% stop the terror attacks. Israel has not been able to do that with all its military might and occupation of the West Bank. What we can say is that we can put a 100% effort not only by the Palestinians, but by all Arab states and by the United States, in making sure that we give the Palestinians every logistical help they need in rebuilding their apparatus and moving against these organizations.

JIM LEHRER: President Bush has said many, many times in the last several weeks that he does not believe Yasser Arafat, as the head of the Palestinian Authority, is committed to stopping this violence. Did that come up today in your discussion?

MARWAN MUASHER: It did not come up in any extended way. I think we, first of all, both agree to disagree on this issue and to focus on the reform process itself. I think we both agree that the issue is bigger than any one person. We both agree that the reform process has to be put in place by the Palestinians so that a strong government emerges, one that is accountable and responsible and able to take decisions. And once that is in place, then I think it is up to the Palestinians to elect their leaders. We cannot be in a position to tell the Palestinians to elect who their leaders are in a democratically free election.

JIM LEHRER: But would you not agree that President Bush is clearly saying from his point of view, it's never going to work as long as Yasser Arafat is in charge?

MARWAN MUASHER: I think what we've seen is a commitment by the administration not to have this issue stand in the way of progress. I think we are both focused on the reform process, focused on moving forward, and I think we're both committed to see that happen, even while we disagree on this issue.

JIM LEHRER: Is your plan for a... a proposal-- as you say, it's not specific in all chapters and all verses, but that for a democratically elected government, a parliamentary form of government with a prime minister and all of the trappings for the Palestinians?

MARWAN MUASHER: I think we are looking at two phases: Phase one takes us from now to the elections after a new constitution is approved by the Palestinians, one that has a clear separation of powers, a parliamentary system; and other details that I think is up to the Palestinians to talk about. But beyond that, once the elections take place, then we are talking about another phase, a road map that would take us from the elections to, say, mid 2005, which is the date at which a Palestinian state is supposed to be independent and to exist on the basis of the '67 borders.

JIM LEHRER: And you and your Arab colleagues agrees with that... agree with that timetable?

MARWAN MUASHER: We do, and I think we are very encouraged to see that the President also has in mind a very firm, not just endgame, but time line. And the President talked about a three-year period and talked about his commitment and determination to see through that this is indeed a possibility. He talked about, as we all heard him now, obligations from both sides, Palestinians and Israelis, in addition to the Arabs and Americans in order to make sure that we don't just keep talking about political visions -- but in translating these visions into implementable work plans with time lines.

JIM LEHRER: Is the leadership of the Palestinian Authority committed to this time line, as well?

MARWAN MUASHER: Yes, they are. We believe they are, and as I said, we are committed, as Arab states, to help see this through. We have come up with an Arab initiative in Beirut in March of this year in which we committed not just the Arab states neighboring Israel or those who have territorial disputes with Israel, but we have committed the full Arab world, every single Arab state, to collectively guarantee the security of Israel and to collectively guarantee the end of the conflict and that there will be no further claims. And I think this is a very important point to make, that we are now working as Arab states in order to make sure that we have a comprehensive settlement to this conflict.

JIM LEHRER: What did you, you and your colleagues today, want to accomplish at this meeting with President Bush?

MARWAN MUASHER: I think we wanted, first, to assure the President that we continue to work we closely and continue to do our part in this process to make sure that we move forward. We also wanted to make sure that there is a commitment to an endgame and a time line, and we see that... we saw that commitment loud and clear by the President, by the Secretary. We also wanted to ensure that we sit together and work out, as I said, a detailed road map with bench marks, with obligations, with a monitoring group to ensure that we are on the right track to that endgame. And I can safely say that we come out of the meeting very encouraged that, on all these fronts, we saw a determined President, a determined administration to work with all of us in order to achieve this.

JIM LEHRER: All right. In a very specific way, what happens next?

MARWAN MUASHER: What happens next is, as I said, making sure the security...

JIM LEHRER: No, but I mean specifically. Who meets with whom? Whose responsibility now, after this meeting today, whose responsibility is to go from this place and do something?

MARWAN MUASHER: Everybody has responsibilities. I start with our own. We are working closely on the security aspect. Our security agencies are working with the Palestinians.

JIM LEHRER: To help them do what?

MARWAN MUASHER: The U.S. security agencies are working, also, to produce a security plan that everybody agrees to that has timetables and that has bench marks associated with it. We are also...

JIM LEHRER: Excuse me. Wait. Let me stop you. A security plan. Now, what do you mean by a security plan? Is this police officers at certain places at certain border crossings, at training... training new police officers for the Palestinian Authority? What exactly do you mean?

MARWAN MUASHER: All of the above. Retraining of Palestinian officers, logistical support, rebuilding the institutions that can take effective measures against outlaws or those who want to engage in terrorist acts making sure that we have unified command of the security agencies all of the above. Putting together a system that ensures that we have full security for the Palestinians and for the Israelis, as well.

JIM LEHRER: So that means that your government and the governments of Saudi Arabia and Egypt and others in the Arab world are committing to help the Palestinians find the Hamas and Islamic Jihad and the other organizations that are opposed to the peace process and who have openly claimed responsibility for the terrorist acts?

MARWAN MUASHER: I'm talking about a system in place that not just moves against terrorist people, but that can take effective measures in ensure a quiet and pass if I'd security situation and ensure that there are no terrorist attacks. Yes. And I also -- I'm talking about Israeli commitments on the other side, as I said, humanitarian, economic, as well as withdrawal to ensure that we have elections.

JIM LEHRER: Did you ask President Bush to lean on the Israelis to do the kinds of things that you want done if you are able to do what you're supposed to... what you commit yourself to do?

MARWAN MUASHER: I think President Bush made it very clear publicly and privately today, that he understands that the issue involves obligations from both sides, he understands that settlements have to stop, he understands that Israeli withdrawal has to take place for elections to take place. He understands that the endgame has to be achieved in three years, and he understands that to do that, both sides have to meet their obligations.

JIM LEHRER: You know, Mr. Minister, there have been meetings and meetings and meetings for years on all of this, and they're always optimistic -- there have been usually optimistic reports like you have just given from this particular meeting. Is there any reason to be particularly optimistic, more optimistic this time than, say, the last time or the time before that and the time before that?

MARWAN MUASHER: I'm not trying to be optimistic or pessimistic here. What I want to say is that everybody in the international community, the U.S., the quartet, Arab states, everyone, is committed now to an endgame in three years. This is new. This has not been there in the past. We are committed to an overall framework to end the Arab-Israeli conflict. We are also committed to a time frame of three years in order to achieve that. That is a new development. But I never... and I will not say that the road to achieve that will be smooth or rosy. What I can say is that we detected today a commitment from the U.S. at the highest level to help us achieve that objective in three years.

JIM LEHRER: All right, Mr. Minister, thank you very much.

MARWAN MUASHER: Thank you.

FOCUS HELP WANTED

JIM LEHRER: Still to come on the NewsHour tonight: Not enough air traffic controllers; and the President of Poland.

Tom Bearden reports on the controllers shortage.

TOM BEARDEN: Air traffic controllers at Ronald Reagan National Airport in Washington, oversee an average of 700 flights everyday.

SPOKESMAN: 0-5-5-7 came on 39-3. Thank you.

SPOKESMAN: 39-3, roger.

TOM BEARDEN: It's a high pressure job. Patrick Thawley has been at it for 33 years.

PATRICK THAWLEY: The fact is any second of any day that you're signed on to that position, anything can happen and sometimes does -- totally out of control, out of your control, not your fault, but it can happen, and you're on the firing line.

TOM BEARDEN: It's been a long and satisfying career, but now Thawley is considering retirement.

PATRICK THAWLEY: We've got so much time doing this it's kind of second nature. But on the other hand, do you lose a step? Yeah, who would say they hadn't when you get to be in your mid- 50's, you know?

TOM BEARDEN: Just steps away from Thawley, another veteran air traffic controller is also looking toward retirement, Richard Cox.

RICHARD COX: It's a young man's game. We're not fooling anybody.

SPOKESMAN: Traffic, 40-47 is with you for one-nine.

TOM BEARDEN: The problem is that Cox and Thawley are part of a massive wave of air traffic controllers set to retire in the next few years. According to a recent study by the General Accounting Office, 70% of the nation's controllers and supervisors will be eligible to retire in September of 2011. They will have served 25 years or reached age 50 with 20 years of service.

SPOKESMAN: Once you're past the northbound 727, take it back over to right to Bavo-22, please.

TOM BEARDEN: Gerald Dillingham, director of civil aviation issues for the GAO, headed up the study.

GERALD DILLINGHAM: The first thing we concluded was that there is a significant number of controllers that are potential retirees within the next decade. Secondly, the FAA doesn't seem to be prepared for this wave of retirements. And third, it may have a tremendous effect on the air traffic control system.

TOM BEARDEN: The reason so many controllers are set to retire is the 1981 air traffic controllers strike. President Ronald Reagan decided to fire more than 10,000 controllers who walked off the job.

PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN: I must tell those who fail to report for duty this morning, they are in violation of the law, and if they do not report for work within 48 hours, they have forfeited their jobs and will be terminated.

TOM BEARDEN: Now, the thousands of air traffic controllers hired to replace those strikers are approaching the end of their careers all at the same time. Ned Reese is the manager of the air traffic division of the FAA Academy in Oklahoma City, where new hires are put through 15 week training program before they enter years of on the job training.

NED REESE: The job action in 1981 resulted in us essentially losing approximately three generations of air traffic controllers. And over the next seven to eight years as we set about to rebuild the system in the field and restaff the facilities that had lost so many controllers, we essentially replaced those three generations with one generation of controllers.

TOM BEARDEN: Bill Peacock is the FAA's director of air traffic.

BILL PEACOCK: Will it be a problem for us? It will be a challenge. We're going to have to recruit, which we have a plan to do. We're going to have to train, which we have a plan to do. We'll have to move some controllers from lower-activity airports to the higher, more complex facilities. And so we have a plan in place to do that.

SPOKESMAN: Even if this aircraft reports this number one in sight...

TOM BEARDEN: At the FAA Academy, instructors are gearing up for the likely onslaught of new trainees.

SPOKESMAN: Test to zero-four-whiskey

SPOKESMAN: Roger, cleared to land.

TOM BEARDEN: Tower simulators provide trainees with a series of scenarios that become more and more difficult as the student progresses.

NED REESE: It's a challenge. Everyday it's a challenge, and everyday it's not the same, it's different. It's like coming to work and being presented with a new puzzle.

TOM BEARDEN: Before students reach these sophisticated Imax theater simulators, they are taught about air traffic in the most basic terms, using a table top runway and toy airplane models.

NED REESE: It's linear, in that by definition the controller literally has their hands on the aircraft they're separating.

TOM BEARDEN: To Reese, the handing off of aircraft from one controller to the next is like a high altitude ballet.

NED REESE: Air traffic control is like a choreographed dance. You have to perform. It's like the dance. Once it starts, you have to follow it through. You have to make decisions, you have to make sure they're the right decisions, you have to assure separation and that safety is paramount.

SPOKESMAN: Heavy on departure, turn around to 1-8-5.

TOM BEARDEN: The FAA acknowledges that any plan to build up the number of trainees will need congressional approval, and such requests are in competition with other FAA programs. GAO's Dillingham says the FAA's plan to replace outgoing controllers isn't aggressive enough.

GERALD DILLINGHAM: They need to develop a strategic plan that would include not only their tradition of one-for-one, but going all the way down to the facility level and talking to those people in the FAA regions and getting an idea of what they are going to need and when they are going to need it.

TOM BEARDEN: But the FAA disagrees. They say the agency's plan to hire replacements will work.

BILL PEACOCK: You can't train a controller in a day. So we need to hire more over the next few years than we need for that given year, so three, four, five years from now they are at that certified professional controller level when the other controllers actually retire.

TOM BEARDEN: The Air Traffic Controller's union worries that neither Congress or the FAA will move quickly enough, that seasoned controllers will be forced to work mandatory overtime, as they did after the 1981 strike. Ruth Marlin is the executive Vice President of National Air Traffic Controllers Association.

RUTH MARLIN: If we rely on mandatory overtime to solve the problem, which is what they did after the strike, it makes our problem worse and it makes our problem worse faster. Fully a third of the controllers said that they would retire earlier if they were forced to work mandatory overtime. It's different. You're a different person as a 50- or 55-year-old than you are when you're young. So it accelerates our problem.

TOM BEARDEN: This month's mid- air collision of a DHL cargo plane and a Russian passenger flight focused attention on allegedly reduced numbers of air traffic controllers across Europe. Both the controllers union and the FAA say even if a shortage develops here, safety will not be compromised. But the union says delays will be significant.

RUTH MARLIN: We will maintain the safety of the system. The only way to do that, if you don't have sufficient controllers, is to slow the traffic down. Security is a perfect example. When we wanted to move the security lines faster, we put up more equipment and more personnel. If you want to work more airplanes, you need more equipment and more personnel. If you are going to take a third of the workforce out, there's going to be traffic that's affected. There's no way we can operate at the level we're used to with a third less controllers. It just doesn't work.

TOM BEARDEN: In the meantime, a lot of controllers like Patrick Thawley and Richard Cox are clearly worried about whether there will be enough people in the pipeline to prevent their having to work mandatory overtime. They say they'll keep a close eye on the situation, because what happens in the near future will have a major effect on when they decide to finally hang up their headsets for good.

FOCUS EMERGING ALLY

JIM LEHRER: And, finally tonight, a conversation with the President of Poland, who is visiting the United States this week. Ray Suarez spoke with him this morning at Blair House in Washington. (Applause)

RAY SUAREZ: The President of Poland is a living symbol of how much Europe has changed. He began his public career as a young Communist Party functionary in a Poland dominated by the Soviet Union. Now he leads a westernizing Poland, is praised by an American President at a White House state dinner, and today accompanied George Bush to Michigan.

PRESIDENT ALEKSANDER KWASNIEWSKI, Poland: Twenty-six years ago, I was here as a student. Today I'm President of Poland and what is more important, my host and my friendis President of the United States, George W. Bush. ( Applause )

RAY SUAREZ: Aleksander Kwasniewski is 47 years old and in his second term as president. He first won election in 1995, defeating Solidarity leader turned politician Lech Walesa. In an interview this morning in Washington, the President had a progress report for America from post-Cold War Poland.

PRESIDENT ALEKSANDER KWASNIEWSKI: My message to the Americans, to the American President, is that I am coming from Poland, which is in good shape; it is much different than ten years ago when last state visit from Poland was here in the United States. We are a strong democratic country. We have democrat major democratic institutions. We are an American ally in NATO and in anti-terrorist coalition. And we want to be in the European Union very soon, beginning of 2004. And we want to develop our strategy to partnership and friendship with the United States, which is connected with a very rich history but what is very important for our future. So I think that I can say, as the President of Poland, we're proud that I am coming from Poland, which is different and what's more important, much better than before.

RAY SUAREZ: Under President Kwasniewski, Poland joined NATO in 1999; the now democratic nation of 39 million people began the process of modernizing Poland's army and integrating armed forces that once trained to fight western Europe with the rest of the alliance. Today, Kwasniewski points out with pride to Polish soldiers on peacekeeping duty in the Balkans and fighting alongside the Americans in Afghanistan.

RAY SUAREZ: If there is no longer a Soviet Union, if Poland is at peace with all its neighbors, why is it so important to be in NATO?

PRESIDENT ALEKSANDER KWASNIEWSKI: Well, because NATO is one of the most important factors of this peace and security, and I think NATO is important in two elements: First one is the organization of peace, security, and very good cooperation between partners. And what is more important, NATO is an organization which protects such values as democracy, tolerance, human rights. And to be in NATO, it means to accept these standards, to accept these values and to realize, to fulfill these ideals. And I think to be in NATO for the countries of our region, it means more guarantees for us, it means more responsibility for our common security, but it means fulfillment of all standards of civilized world, like protection of human rights and democratic mechanisms.

RAY SUAREZ: With the United States finding a new relationship with Russia and cooperating on the destruction of nuclear arsenals and such things, who does NATO protect you from? I mean, if there is no longer opposition in regions of Europe, who are you defending from?

PRESIDENT ALEKSANDER KWASNIEWSKI: Well, we are very glad that Russia is so close with NATO. We are very satisfied that Russia, and we as a NATO member, signed this NATO-Russia treaty some weeks ago in Rome, Italy, because it's much better to have Russia on the same side of processes, of approach to many, many political issues. We welcome, we welcome this good cooperation between Russia and NATO. And you asked me for what is NATO now? Well, look in Balkans, you have seen what is the possibility of such conflict, ethnic conflicts, ethnic cleansings, tensions. So I think that is one of the reasons we can face some regional problems, which are very difficult, very dramatic and is necessary to have instruments to solve these problems. NATO is such instrument. Terrorism. In my opinion, terrorism is a question which is not ashort- term problem for all of us. It is a long-term fight. And NATO can play, and will play, a very crucial role in this struggle. Then, what I mentioned, this security system in the region, more countries in NATO means more zone, bigger zone, wider zone of security and stability.

RAY SUAREZ: Now solidly within NATO and supporting the arrival of new eastern European allies like

Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania, the President is now pushing for Polish membership in the European Union.

RAY SUAREZ: That can be a complicated change. Why do you think it's important for Poland?

PRESIDENT ALEKSANDER KWASNIEWSKI: Well, because Europe wants to be integrated, and this alternative is very clear. To be in the EU, it means to have same rules of... for economy, for social life, to be together in the majority of European countries. To be out of EU, it means to be in some kind of vacuum, of gray zone. And that is such political very clear alternative. We want to be in the European Union because this organization is very effective. This organization guaranteed for Europe 50 years, more than 50 years of peace and very good cooperation and development of economies in each country, and very positive solutions for many social problems like unemployment, like poverty, like this balance between the various regions. And so I think the European Union that is after NATO is our second historic goal, which we should reach if we want to encourage Poland... include Poland in this modern world and modern Europe. And we hope to finish our negotiations this year. And what I said, we want to be in the European Union beginning of 2004, so a very short and visible period.

RAY SUAREZ: Prosperous by world standards, Poles are still much poorer than other Europeans. Their industries are antiquated, their farms small and inefficient by EU standards. Poland is trying to join the European Union just as the EU is again embroiled in controversy over the high cost of farm price supports. They account for more than half the entire budget of the EU.

RAY SUAREZ: Well, there are a lot of taxpayers in the union who worry about the costs of incorporating Poland. There are a lot of farmers in Poland who are worry about their futures if Poland joins the union.

PRESIDENT ALEKSANDER KWASNIEWSKI: Well, I think... of course the new candidate countries are not donators; they will be the beneficiaries of European Union for some years. But why EU is so interested to have Poland and some new countries inside, because it's a huge mark. There's almost 100 million people. And this market creates a lot of job places in European Union countries and good chances for development increase of European economy. So I think that is a good business for both sides. It is not that we will have some structure found, some assistance for Polish farmers, which is very important. We count on this assistance very much for the next some years. But in longer term, this is good business for both sides. And what is politically extremely important, Europe can be united, the first time in the history, after a thousand... more than a thousand years. We can use the whole potential of Europe to be effective in the economy, to be very competitive in the global economy. So I think that is from the European perspective, for the European future, this engagement can be one of the most important and effective decisions in the last 50 years maybe.

RAY SUAREZ: When the Soviet Union fell, Poland made the hard political and economic choice to quickly transform from a state- controlled economy to a market one. The government asked its people for sacrifices.

PRESIDENT ALEKSANDER KWASNIEWSKI: Today, I think that is a social problem to some extent because the people suffered a lot. And now we have such expectation that it's time to have some fruits, some positive fruits of the changes. And still the time, especially in the economy, is very tough, very difficult. It's necessary to be active still, to work, to fight, to make our economy more competitive. And of course, still it is not the time to relax and to make vacations and to eat the fruits of the reforms of the changes last years. It's psychologically and socially, that is one of the sensitive points in the contemporary life of Poland.

RAY SUAREZ: In the United States, we talk a lot about the American dream and what that means for individual people and families. What's the Polish dream?

PRESIDENT ALEKSANDER KWASNIEWSKI: Well, it is a nice question because I think we have dreams. And Poland is such a unique place where we realize some of our dreams. One of our dreams was to be an independent state. We are -- to be democratic country; we are -- to have our sovereignty again after 50 years of outside rules, we are a sovereign country today. I think today our dream is to have efficient economy, to be one of the important nations and countries in Europe, not superpowers, we have not... we haven't such ambitions, but to play role according to our heritage, according to our potential, according to our position in Europe yesterday and today and tomorrow, and I think this dream is quite realistic, and we can make this dream true in the next some years.

RAY SUAREZ: And you're still young enough to see it, see it to the end.

PRESIDENT ALEKSANDER KWASNIEWSKI: Yes. Maybe as the President, I'm not so young because it's my second term and I have three and a half years to the end. But as a person of course, I'm enough young not only to see how this dream is fulfilled, but to participate in the realization of this dream. We are in a good way.

RAY SUAREZ: How much has the world changed? On the way home from the United States, the Polish President will stop in Berlin to a country that once invaded and occupied his own to help swear in new officers in the German army.

RECAP

JIM LEHRER: Again, the other major developments of this day: Zacarias Moussaoui tried to plead guilty to new federal charges that could bring the death penalty. The judge refused to let him. And President Bush vowed to continue working for peace in the Middle East, in spite of new violence. We'll see you online, and again here tomorrow evening with Shields and Brooks, among others. I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank you and good night.