The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

JIM LEHRER: Good evening. I'm Jim Lehrer. On the NewsHour tonight, Gwen Ifill interviews the Surgeon General of the United States, Dr. David Satcher, about a new report on the nation's mental health; Tom Bearden tells the story of the Panama Canal, the object of a turnover ceremony tomorrow; Ray Suarez talks to Richard Holbrooke, the U.S. Ambassador to the united nations; and we close with some thoughts of Joseph Heller, the "Catch-22" writer who died last night. It all follows our summary of the news this Monday.

NEWS SUMMARY

JIM LEHRER: The Surgeon General issued a major report today on mental health in America. It said one American in five suffers from a mental disorder in any given year, but two- thirds do not seek treatment because of shame or cost of care. Surgeon General David Satcher commented at a White House event.

DR. DAVID SATCHER: I hope that as more people become aware of both the reality and the prevalence of such disorders they will be convinced once and for all that it's time to end the blame and the stigma that have traditionally surrounded mental illness in this country.

JIM LEHRER: We'll talk to Dr. Satcher right after this News Summary. In Chechnya today, Russian troops battled rebels South and East of the capital, the Grozny. Russians claimed to have entered the city's outskirts and seized the airport; rebels disputed that claim. Over the weekend, the Russian military delayed an all-out assault on the city. Up to 40,000 civilians remained trapped there. The Russians opened two corridors for refugees to leave, but few of them actually used them. We have this report from Mark Webster of Independent Television News.

MARK WEBSTER: Rows of army tents hastily erected for refugees inside Russian-controlled Chechnya stand empty. Fully equipped with stoves and wooden floors, the authorities say they expect an influx of civilians from villages and towns now being bombed. Yet fear, infirmity, and a lack of transports means there's not a soul in them. For the refugee children, the misery of the war and the pain of separation have scarred their young lives. "Grozny was much better," this little girl said. "I had a lot of friends there. I knew lots of people. Here, I know a few children, but I have only my relatives, really, that I know well." "Me too," she said. "I only know a few children, but in Grozny, I knew lots of people." Just a few miles further into Chechnya, an oil well blazes out of control. Every week, 200 tons of burning crude is belching black smoke into the air. It will take the Russians three months to put it out.

JIM LEHRER: We'll talk about Chechnya, among other things, with UN Ambassador Holbrooke later in the program tonight. The Israeli parliament voted today to approve peace talks with Syria. The vote came after Prime Minister Barak said Israel must pay a painful price, a reference to Syria's demand for the return of the Golan Heights. Barak and Syria's foreign minister will meet Wednesday in Washington to restart peace negotiations. Back in this country, Defense Secretary Cohen today ordered a full review of the "don't as don't tell" policy on gays in the military. A Pentagon spokesman said Cohen agrees with President Clinton that the policy is not working as intended. The President spoke over the weekend. Wen Ho Lee pleaded not guilty today to charges he mishandled nuclear weapon secrets. The fired scientist had been at the center of a China-spying controversy at the Los Alamos weapons lab in New Mexico. He was arrested Friday. The indictment says he intended to aid a foreign nation, but he has not been charged with espionage. U.S. officials met today with the father of the Cuban boy caught in a diplomatic tug-of- war. Elian Gonzales is now with relatives in Miami, but his biological father wants him back in Cuba. Fidel Castro has also demanded the boy's return. U.S. Immigration representatives spoke with the father near Havana. In Washington, State Department Spokesman James Foley promised the matter will be handled on its merits.

JAMES FOLEY: We are not allowing this case to be subjected to political influence or considerations from any quarter, and that the INS will go by the book as it determines parental rights in this case.

JIM LEHRER: Elian Gonzales was on a boat that went down at sea, trying to make it to Florida. His mother was killed. A former New York City policeman was sentenced to 30 years in prison today for torturing a Haitian immigrant. Justin Volpe could have gotten life without parole. He had pleaded guilty to assaulting Abner Louima with a broom handle in a Brooklyn precinct in 1997. A jury returned a guilty verdict against another policeman in the attack. Three others were acquitted. The attack by white officers on the black immigrant touched off protests throughout the city. The man who invented "catch-22" is dead. Novelist Joseph Heller died of a heart attack last night at his Long Island home. He was 76 years old. "Catch-22" was published in 1961. It was Heller's first book, based on his world II experiences. It was later made into a movie. We'll have more on Joseph Heller at the end of our program tonight. Between now and then, Surgeon General David Satcher; the Panama Canal handoff; and UN Ambassador Holbrooke.

FOCUS - MENTAL HEALTH

JIM LEHRER: Susan Dentzer begins our coverage of today's report on mental health. She's a member of our health unit, which is a partnership with the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation.

SUSAN DENTZER: The 487-page document released today is the first Surgeon General's report ever on mental illness. As with the first Surgeon General's report, the famed 1964 warning on the dangers of smoking, this report summarized top scientific research to underscore a major health problem. Health and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala:

DONNA SHALALA: At a time when treatments have never been more safer or more effective, too many people are avoiding those treatments. Our message is simple: Mental health is fundamental to public health.

SUSAN DENTZER: The report paints a picture of a nation facing a heavy burden of illness, from major depression to schizophrenia. It noted that one in five Americans has a mental disorder in the course of a year, a proportion that also holds for children and adolescents. One in seven adults uses mental health services annually, at a cost that totaled nearly $100 billion in 1996. Laurie Flynn heads the national alliance for the mentally ill, a leading advocacy group; she said the report shows more must be done.

LAURIE FLYNN: Half of everyone with a serious mental illness is not getting any treatment. 40 percent of the homeless have mental illness, and about 20 percent of people in jails and prisons have a serious mental disorder.

SUSAN DENTZER: A key reason is a massive shortage of community-based services for the mentally ill. Tipper Gore, wife of Vice President Al Gore and a mental health care advocate, had urged the Surgeon General to undertake the study.

TIPPER GORE: Mental illness is still very much feared, and it's very much misunderstood in far too many communities around this country. And one of the greatest things we can do is erase the stigma.

SUSAN DENTZER: And the report said that should be possible now that there is proof that these so- called "mental conditions" have physical causes, and that they often respond better to treatment than do conditions like heart disease. Citing those findings, mental health advocates praised the report's call to equalize health insurance coverage for both mental and physical illness.

JIM LEHRER: And to Gwen Ifill.

GWEN IFILL: And with me is Dr. David Satcher, Surgeon General of the United States. He released today's report.

Dr. Satcher, mental illness is not like tobacco. It's not something you can stick a warning label on and warn people to do a certain set of things. So what is it that your report hopes to do?

DR. DAVID SATCHER: Well, number one, we hope to use the science. I think there's been a virtual revolution in the science of mental illness over the last 25 years, and using that science, we hope to make the point that mental illnesses are real. They have real physical, chemical bases. It's no longer justification for distinguishing between mental and physical illnesses because there are physical, chemical bases for mental illnesses. We hope that will help to change the stigma that so often surrounds mental illness and therefore make it easier for people to seek treatment. The other thing that the report, the science shows is that we can treat, we can effectively treat mental illnesses. The overwhelming majority of people with mental illnesses can be effectively treated and return to productive lives and positive relationships. And so we can remove the barrier of the stigma, we believe we can make a major difference; we urge people who have mental illnesses or who think they do to seek diagnosis and treatment. The bad news in the report, as pointed out, is that even though one in five persons in this country suffer a mental illness each year, less than half will seek treatment. And so that's the bad news. And we hope to change that.

GWEN IFILL: So who are you targeting these findings to, the health care community, to government, or, as you mentioned, to individuals that need to get over the stigma associated with the illness?

DR. DAVID SATCHER: I think first and foremost we're targeting this report to the American people, because we really need the change the environment. Australia, for example, went through a very comprehensive strategy for destigmatizing mental illness, and we're trying to do that. That's our first charge, is to really see if we can change the environment so that people feel comfortable. I mean, if a person has a cardiovascular disease or diabetes, they're not embarrassed to seek care, but so often in this country if people have mental illness, they're embarrassed. Families are embarrassed. You can't change that unless you change the level of awareness of the American people and change the attitudes of the American people. So the report is geared toward the American population, but it's also, as you imply, geared toward the people who need to seek treatment and are not seeking it.

GWEN IFILL: As we just saw in Susan Dentzer's report, nearly half of the people who suffer from severe mental illness do not seek treatment.

DR. DAVID SATCHER: That's right.

GWEN IFILL: It's got to be about more than embarrassment.

DR. DAVID SATCHER: It is. I think that stigma is a barrier to seeking treatment, but we also should admit that for many people who seek treatment, they find difficulty getting the access to services they need. That's in part related to the fact that we actually discriminate in terms of providing services.

GWEN IFILL: In what way?

DR. DAVID SATCHER: We don't provide parity of services for mental illness. There are many health insurance plans who will not cover mental illnesses to the same extent that they cover other illnesses.

GWEN IFILL: So if an employee has heart disease, that employee is more likely to be covered for treatment than for any kind of mental illness?

DR. DAVID SATCHER: Most definitely. Right. Most definitely. Now, it's interesting that 27 states have now passed laws providing parity. All of those laws are not equal, but it is encouraging that 27 states have now said that if you're going to practice your insurance in this state, you have to provide parity of access to an extent. President Clinton at the White House conference on mental health said that from now on any health plan that provided coverage to federal employees would have to provide parity of access. That's progress, and we need to keep it going. That's the goal of this report, as you implied, not only to get rid of the stigma, but also to begin the change the system so that we remove the barriers to access.

GWEN IFILL: Isn't part of this, Dr. Satcher, also a matter of definition? Many people don't recognize what depression is. Older people are more likely to seem depressed because of bereavement, but bereavement in and of itself may not be clinical depression.

DR. DAVID SATCHER: Yeah. I think the first question is what is mental illness. And we have defined mental illness in this report as an alteration in thinking or mood or behavior or some combination of those that either creates distress or interferes with one's ability to be productive or one's relationships. That's mental illness. Now, there are a lot of different categories of mental illnesses. There are anxiety, depression...

GWEN IFILL: You make a distinction between mental illness and mental disorders.

DR. DAVID SATCHER: Yeah. Well, the big distinction, though, is between mental health problems because mental disorders are diagnosable mental illnesses - that's how we define mental disorders. But when you were talking about the bereavement, that's a mental health problem but not a mental disorder or mental illness. I think that's a very important distinction. You can lose a loved one and you can be depressed for a month-and-a-half and not have a mental illness. But if that depression goes on for four to six months, you are likely to have a mental illness and you need to be seen and treated.

GWEN IFILL: It's one thing to say, let's remove the stigma from mental illness, but how do you devise a social, moral, political construct that does that?

DR. DAVID SATCHER: Well, I think what should do it is the science. Now, I think the reason that so much stigma surrounding mental illness is, one, we've had questions about whether they were real. There are a lot of people who just don't believe that mental illnesses are real. There are other people who believe they are character disorders or spiritual disorders. And let me say that this report shows the science that says that the basis of mental illness are chemical changes in the brain and, therefore physical changes, changes in the basic cells of the brain. That's why I hold that there's in longer any justification for the distinction that we've made between "mind and body or mental and physical illnesses." Mental illnesses are physical illnesses. They're related to physical changes in the brain.

GWEN IFILL: It seems we have the greatest trouble dealing with a mental illness at the beginning of life and the end of life -- children overlooked, older people overlooked. How do you begin to address that?

DR. DAVID SATCHER: This report takes a life cycle approach to the subject of mental health and mental illness. There's a chapter on childhood and adolescent problems. There's a chapter on adults. Then there's a chapter on older Americans. As you point out, older Americans perhaps suffer disproportionately, certainly dementias like Alzheimer's Disease as we see in people generally who are older, and with the population increasingly aging, we're going to see more disability from mental illnesses. Now, I want to make it very clear that some people expect that it's normal for older people to be depressed. It is not normal. And we ought to take the attitude that clinical depression in older people needs to be diagnosed and treated. And that's what we're urging, to make people much more functional and certainly much more comfortable in their day-to-day lives.

GWEN IFILL: If health insurers were to begin to extending coverage to people for mental illness treatment as much as they do for other kinds of illness, how much would that cost?

DR. DAVID SATCHER: You know, we don't know. We spend about $100 billion a year treating mental illnesses. And that includes Alzheimer's and that includes addictive disorders. Let me tell you what we do know - that there are health plans in this country that have now expanded their programs to provide parity of access for mental illnesses. And what they have found in these plans is that the difference in costs is like 1 to 2 percent in either direction. They have plans that argue that since they are offering parity of access for mental illness, their costs have gone down. Now, that's pretty difficult to understand. And I want to try to explain it. Let me say that there are many people in this country who are suffering from depression who go to the physicians and complain of headaches and lo back pain. They don't complain about depression. There are many people who have other problems that affect their health, and they complain about them, but they don't go and say I have anxiety or depression. So I imagine that has something do with it. We believe that mental illness, even though not being treated have a major impact on the health care system.

GWEN IFILL: What happens to the people who are left untreated, the people who cannot get over the stigma, or the people who don't even realize that they are ill? Where do they go?

DR. DAVID SATCHER: All of the indications that we, America, to a great extent are dumping our mental health problems on the streets of America where one-third to one half of homeless people are suffering from mental illnesses and for the most part are not being treated. We're also dumping them in our jails and prisons where 15 to 20 percent of people in jails and prisons are mentally ill and often not being treated. It's very unfortunate. We're criminalizing mental illness. And that needs to change. And I hope this report will be a major step in that direction. Unfortunately, I think that's what's happening in many cases to our mental health problems.

GWEN IFILL: When the Surgeon General issues a report, we expect a call to action. What is your call to action?

DR. DAVID SATCHER: Yes. Well, there are several areas that we feel that we need action. Number one is to really move forward with this destigmatization campaign aggressively, and we plan to do that. And we just visited Australia to look at what they have done. And we were impressed. We need to continue to research. I want to make it clear. Despite all the science we've had over the last 25 years, we need more research and treatment, but especially in prevention. Unfortunately, as much as I care about prevention, this report doesn't say much about prevention because we don't know a lot about prevention.

GWEN IFILL: Right.

DR. DAVID SATCHER: We know more about mental illness than we do about mental health, unfortunately. We need to know more about how to promote mental health and how to prevent mental illness. And we need more research. And we're going to push for that. We also need to move forward with improving the system of treatment, improving access, better job at training health providers, not just psychiatrist and psychologists, but family physicians, internists, pediatricians to diagnose and treat mental illness. But we also need a community-based approach. We need homes and schools and churches and businesses to become involved because it is, for example, in schools that mental health problems often first play out or in the home. And we want a comprehensive immunity-based system for dealing with mental health problems.

GWEN IFILL: Very difficult and complicated issue. Thank you so much for helping us with it, Dr. Satcher.

DR. DAVID SATCHER: Well, thank you. I'm delighted to be here.

JIM LEHRER: Still to come on the NewsHour tonight, changing the guard in Panama; UN Ambassador Holbrooke; and remembering Joseph Heller.

FOCUS - CHANGING OF THE GUARD

JIM LEHRER: Farewell to the Panama Canal: Tomorrow, there's a ceremony that will mark the transfer of the historic passageway. Tom Bearden has our extended report.

(Chanting)

TOM BEARDEN: American troops getting some exercise in Panama...something they've been doing since shortly after the turn of the last century. But when the next century turns, they'll all be gone. At noon, on December 31st, the U.S.-built Panama Canal--for decades considered a strategic cornerstone of U.S. military and foreign

policy--will become Panama's canal. Roberto Eisenmann s a prominent businessman and former newspaper publisher.

TOM BEARDEN: Did you ever think this day would come, and come in this

form, a peaceful transfer?"

ROBERTO EISENMANN: No. No. I...we were all here in this country born with a desire, with a hope that it would happen. But I have to accept I never thought I would see it my lifetime. And as I'm seeing it, such a peaceful transfer with the majority of this country pro-Yankee, pro-American, it's just too good to be true.

TOM BEARDEN: A peaceful transfer seemed very far away back in the 1960's and 70's, when Panamanians rioted in the streets protesting American sovereignty over the canal and the zone that surrounds it. Panamanian Dictator Omar Torrijos threatened to blow up the canal if the U.S. didn't get out. After protracted negotiations, President Jimmy Carter signed a treaty with Torrijos in 1977, setting up a process whereby Panama gradually assumed operational control of the canal, eventually leading to a complete U.S. pullout.

The treaty was highly controversial. The senate ratified it by only a single vote. But the agreement didn't end the long history of U.S. intervention in Panamanian affairs. In 1989, the U.S. sent 27,000 troops to arrest strongman General Manuel Noriega after two U.S. grand juries indicted him for racketeering, drug trafficking, and money-laundering.

Noriega was tried and convicted in a U.S. court, and is serving a prison sentence in the United States. Ten years and three civilian presidents later, Panama is counting down

the hours to its complete independence. But even though it's been 20 years since the Carter-Torrijos Treaty, the canal remains a passionate issue in U.S. politics. That's because it holds a unique place in American history. It is as much a symbol of the emergence of America as a world power as it is a waterway. Using both spades and steam shovels, Americans cut through the spine of the continent between 1904 and 1914, creating one of the world's engineering marvels...a system of locks that raise ships 85 feet above sea level to a vast manmade lake, then returns them to sea level on the

other side. In the process, President Teddy Roosevelt practically created the country of Panama by helping the former Columbian province gain independence. Now some Republicans believe the U.S. is making a serious blunder in giving it all up. Congressman Bob Barr of Georgia.

REP. BOB BARR: This is a momentous foreign policy and international security issue. And it's happening without any input from the American people, any education of the American people, any understanding on the part of a large segment of the U.S. population. And yet we are giving away one of the most important national security and international commerce institutions in the world.

TOM BEARDEN: Barr doesn't doubt that the Panamanians can operate t he canal from a technical standpoint...Panamanians have dominated its workforce for more than a decade. He's worried about who will actually control it. Barr and others point to a contract that Panama signed with the Panama Ports Company to operate two ports, one on either end of the canal. Panama Ports is a subsidiary of Hutchinson-Whampoa, a Hong Kong company which Barr says has close ties with the communist Chinese People's

Liberation Army.

REP. BOB BARR: It's a classic example of how they operate. They move in

fairly slowly, pass a lot of money around, bring their people in and

get them into positions of influence. They're not afraid to pass money

under the table to secure contracts such as we believe Hutchinson -Whampoa did in this particular case

TOM BEARDEN: Barr believes the Chinese will have a lot to say about the sequencing of ships through the canal, including U.S. warships, which have always had

precedence in time of war.

REP. BOB BARR: I think we've made a tremendous blunder here. And that will

come back to haunt us in years ahead as we see diminished U.S. influence

in that part of the world and increased communist Chinese influence in

that part of the world.

TOM BEARDEN: Alberto Aleman heads the Panama Canal Commission, a joint U.S.-Panamanian agency that has been running the canal since 1979. He rejects Barr's assertion that the Chinese could control canal traffic.

ALBERTO ALEMAN: That is completely and absolutely false. The only institution that will have and has today and will have in the future, full and complete control of all of the movements in canal waters, even more about the canal because it includes all the ports, it includes our anchorage facilities and anything that moves in canal waters, we are the

only ones who has complete and total control.

TOM BEARDEN: Mark Falcoff is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise

Institute and has written a book about the Panama Canal transition.

MARK FALCOFF: The fuss that's been raised about this has to do with the fact that since Hutchinson-Wampoa is a Hong Kong-based corporation, its relationship with the People's Republic of China must be something more than platonic. And I'm sure it is. But that's a very long jump to go from there as to say the canal's going to be in the hands of the People's Liberation Army. The way I always feel about it is that Fort Benning, Georgia is a lot closer to Panama than is the People's Republic of China. And I haven't any doubt that if either the People's Republic of China, Hutchinson-Whampoa or the government of Panama try anything imprudent, they would wake up breakfasting with the 82nd Airborne.

TOM BEARDEN: Some observers believe the larger threat to the canal's future lies in whether Panama can insulate its operation from the vagaries of domestic politics. Panama is both a first and third world country, with a vast disparity in income between rich and poor. Panama City has a downtown full of skyscrapers...and dreadfully poor barrios in their shadow. Some Panamanians have long believed that if they controlled the canal, its revenue could lift the country out of poverty overnight...that in fact one of the reasons the United States became a superpower is because it controlled the canal. The reality is somewhat different. The locks and dams are 85 years old, and require constant maintenance. The channels must be dredged to prevent their filling up with silt. The U.S. operated the canal on a break-even basis...but expenses often exceeded revenue. The difference was made up by direct congressional appropriations. Falcoff is worried that future Panamanian administrations will be tempted to tap canal revenue for non-canal purposes.

MARK FALCOFF: I think we all agree that they're perfectly capable of running it as well or better than the existing arrangements. The concern has more to do with insulating the canal from politics. And although there are now some elaborate laws on the books in Panama which apparently assure this, nobody's going to believe it until they see it because of the way public facilities elsewhere in Panama have been run in the past as basically employment agencies for the ruling party.

ROBERTO EISENMANN: I think we've covered the Panama Canal with enough legal framework to avoid that. The Panama Canal laws have been included in our Constitution. It has constitutional hierarchy. And the Canal has total independence financially from the main government.

TOM BEARDEN: Poverty poses a physical as well as a political threat to the future of

the canal. When the land around the canal reverted several years ago, squatters who

practice slash and burn agriculture moved in -- so did extractive industries. When vegetation that anchors the soil is destroyed, silt flowing into the canal increases dramatically. Aleman says the government is working on the problem.

ALBERTO ALEMAN: Aleman Making the people who live out of the water sheds to

understand their responsibilities, getting new programs to change some

of the things on the way they are living -- so that they instead of doing

cattle farming, they should go into a type of crops -- those are part of

the programs we have put into place.

MARK FALCOFF: I have to be honest. I'm pessimistic. Most of the environmental reports that I've read and most of the people I've talked to on Inter American and

Environmental Commission that have worked in Panama are very, very concerned about the environmental future of the Chagres River watershed.

TOM BEARDEN: The Panama Canal Commission is exploring the idea of increasing the

canal's water supply by building new dams and reservoirs. The longer-term challenge is to keep the canal economically viable. A billion-dollar modernization program is now underway. The Gaillard Cut, the deepest excavation on the route, is being widened

to allow ships to pass through simultaneously instead of single-file. But shippers want to build larger ships to reduce costs. Many modern container ships only clear the sides of the canal's locks by two feet on either side, and supertankers are already too large to use the canal. Building new locks would be enormously expensive, perhaps prohibitively

so, because higher tolls to pay for them might drive shippers to use alternative routes. The large container ships already pay over $100,000 in tolls per trip. Taking control of the canal also raises another concern for Panama. It will have to find some way to compensate for the loss of some $350 million a year from the U.S. military. There are fewer than two dozen American military personnel in Panama today, down from a high of ten thousand. With them went thousands of jobs...from boot polishing to secretarial work...and they're jobs that pay far more than the Panamanian civilian economy. Carlos Worrel is a cook supervisor at the Corazol Base near Panama City. He and the other kitchen workers make $5.85 an hour now, but they know they won't be able to find work at anywhere near that outside. The average wage in Panama is about a dollar an hour.

Worrel hopes to open his own restaurant.

CARLOS WORREL: We'll try to get a group of friends that are willing to put together so we can open up our business.

TOM BEARDEN: What do you think about the U.S. military leaving?

CARLOS WORREL: Very sad about it. Real sad about it. I wish they could stay and help the Panamanians people that was working for them all these years. A lot of people still without a job right now.

JUAN CARLOS NAVARRO, Mayor of Panama City: I think our biggest problem as a nation is to create jobs and to create economic opportunity.

TOM BEARDEN: Juan Carlos Navarro is the major of Panama City.

JUAN CARLOS NAVARRO: Yes, it has been very difficult to provide jobs for the workers who are leaving the US military installations, but let me tell you we'll finally be free and sovereign over our entire territory is an exquisite moment for Panamanian history and I think that this gives us the willpower to charge ahead and to create economical opportunity and employment that can compensate for this momentary loss.

TOM BEARDEN: In fact, Navarro and others see the handover asthe seed of an economic renaissance. For Panama is not just gaining the canal.. but also 365-thousand acres land that surrounds it, and about 7,000 buildings on former U.S. military bases.

A former Air Force base has already been converted into a domestic airport for Panama City...and its housing has been sold to private citizens who are gentrifying

the area. Developing tourism is a high priority. The former U.S. School of the

Americas...a controversial training center for Latin American military...is being rebuilt as a luxury hotel. Construction is underway on the causeway the U.S. soldiers were using as a track. plans are to build several hotels and a shopping mall to cater to tourists whose cruse ships Panama hopes to lure to a new port facility. In the rainforest near the canal, a former U.S. radar tower has been converted into an ecotourism resort. The "Canopy Tower" sits on the top of a hill, and gives visitors the chance to view wildlife from a vantage point above the rainforest. But Falcoff says not all of the former U.S. properties have fared so well. He says the Trans-Panama Railroad is a case in point. The U.S.

turned over the railroad in 1979, only to see the Panamanians drain it of resources.

MARK FALCOFF: The Panamanian army took over that agency. And they took all the money that was to be used to run the railroad and put their relatives on the agency's payroll. They spent enormous amounts of money on consulting firms. The actual rolling stock was neglected. In fact, the railroad virtually ceased to exist as a railroad.

TOM BEARDEN: That is about to change. Panama sold the railroad to a private U.S.

company which is preparing to restore rail service. There are several thousand acres that the Panamanians don't want to accept from the U.S....old firing ranges which contain unexploded ordnance.

JUAN CARLOS NAVARRO: I think it is unconscionable for the U.S. to come to Panama, use the military bases for a century and then walk away from them leaving behind a problem that you know we cannot solve and pay for on our own. Therefore I think it is the U.S.'s moral obligation to clean up those military areas which you dirtied and you polluted while you were here.

TOM BEARDEN: Col. David Hunt is in charge of the U.S. handover.

COL. DAVID HUNT: The U.S. Government has done everything that the treaty required in cleaning up the ranges. There are 7600 acres that we have been unable to clean up. And they're in three discreet areas. They're very well defined. Panama knows where they are. We know where they are. They need to be preserved until the day that the technology is sufficient to clean them up completely without doing irreparable

damage to the environment.

TOM BEARDEN: While the firing range issue is likely to be a bone of contention for years to come, most Panamanians look on the departure of the U.S. with mixed

emotions.

ROBERTO EISENMANN: I sometimes compare this to a twenty-year old boy who has lived all his life with an overpowering father, and suddenly decides it's time to leave home and go independent. And he sits with his father and makes the deal and says next week I'm leaving the house, and so forth. At the end of the conversation he goes back to his room and he worries sick, 'will I make it? I wonder if I'll make it. What happens if I don't make it? How do I come back home?' And the father in the other room is thinking, 'I wonder if he'll make it? How can I help him without helping him?' etc. That's the point we are in right now in the US and in Panama.

TOM BEARDEN: But Juan Carlos Navarro isn't worried; he's brimming with hope. On this day the mayor was participating in a birthday celebration for the Curundo Barrio. He says that even in this poor neighborhood, people are looking forward to independence.

JUAN CARLOS NAVARRO: I think that we're full of optimism. I feel very, very happy that my country's finally becoming whole again, that we're going to be a sovereign, a free nation, that we're not going to have any more foreign troops in Panama, and I think that the future is a challenge, but the Panamanian people are undoubtedly up to it. The

future belongs to us. It's just a matter of what we do with it.

TOM BEARDEN: That future officially begins on December 31st.

NEWSMAKER

JIM LEHRER: Now a NewsMaker interview with Richard Holbrooke, the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations. It will be conducted by Ray Suarez.

RAY SUAREZ: Security Council member Russia is locked in fierce civil war in Chechnya. The UN is trying to come up with a formula for monitoring Iraqi weapons, and new reports on AIDS are bringing terrible news from Africa. Ambassador Holbrooke, welcome. Ambassador Holbrooke, welcome to the program.

RICHARD HOLBROOKE: Thank you, Ray.

RAY SUAREZ: Are you encouraged by the reports that the Russians are standing but not continuing to advance outside Grozny much after the deadline that they themselves had set for leveling the place?

RICHARD HOLBROOKE: Well, that's pretty small comfort, Ray. I think what the Russians have done in Chechnya is inexcusable, and I think the administration has made very clear how much they object to it. If this is the first sign that international pressure is having an effect on Moscow, maybe it's encouraging, but it's awfully early to try to guess.

RAY SUAREZ: Well, there had been reports that shelling was going on today just outside Grozny, but that the civilians inside the city have not been forced out, continue to be unmolested. Are there any signals that the Russians have given to anyone, either friends or adversaries, that they're holding back?

RICHARD HOLBROOKE: You're way ahead of me on that. I just got back from Africa last night, and I have not seen those reports, so I really can't comment on them. But I do want to repeat that I don't think anyone in the administration has anything but very great concern over what has happened there. It's just not appropriate, what the Russians did. It wasn't necessary, and if they are finally beginning to stop, that's good. But let's see what really happens.

RAY SUAREZ: The Russians had let it be known in the last several weeks that they were willing to modify some of their demands on formulating a new regime, an inspection regime for Iraq if they were given a free hand in Chechnya. The outside world hasn't been able to make its will known in Chechnya, but maybe the Russians have been better bargainers at the table at the UN?

RICHARD HOLBROOKE: Well, Chechnya has not been en issue at the UN. And as I said a minute ago, Ray, I've been for the last 13 days in Africa. And since Chechnya has not been in the UN, I don't have much comment on the specifics that you're talking about except to reiterate what the President made clear in his many statements on this issue in the last few days.

RAY SUAREZ: But I'm sure you have been monitoring the talks leading to a possible vote this week on the new inspection regime for Iraq. Russia's been pressing for easier terms. The United States has been trying to keep tougher terms in place. What kind of final formula will be presented to the Security Council when it comes to a vote?

RICHARD HOLBROOKE: The work on Iraq has been going forward at a very intense pace in the last two weeks -- again, conducted primarily by Undersecretary of State Pickering and deputy... and my deputy, Peter Burly. We're looking forward now to a vote this week. It may come very early, but on the details of it, I'm not in a position to comment tonight.

RAY SUAREZ: Well, in general terms, the United States has been wanting to keep a longer inspection regime in place -- the Russians, something only about one-third as long with mechanisms built in for shortening the overall time of sanctions if there is compliance. What has been the general American reaction to Russian suggestions?

RICHARD HOLBROOKE: Ray, I'm really sorry. I'm not going to be able to comment in detail on these negotiations on Iraq. They're going on as we speak. They're being conducted by Ambassador Burly, and it would not serve our effort to go into this kind of detail as we come into the closing stretch of what has been an extraordinary long and difficult situation. I will simply say this: We're not going to accept a regime which we don't think works, and most people think that what we think works will prove in the end not even to be acceptable to the Baghdad regime at all. So what we're in now is the closing days, I hope, of a very difficult negotiation in the UN, but we're nowhere near the end of the process vis- -vis the Iraqis.

RAY SUAREZ: Well, what's being contemplated is something, if I'm pronouncing the acronym correctly, UNMOVIC, the UN Monitoring Verification and Inspection Commission. What has to happen in the next year or so, so that UNMOVIC doesn't run into some of the same problems that UNSCOM did?

RICHARD HOLBROOKE: Well, first of all, let's see what the resolution is, then let's see what's set up. Let's see if the Iraqis agree to participate under the rules set up by the UN. If they don't, that's going to create a different sort of confrontation. Your question, while it's a very good one, involves so many hypotheticals that I really think it's useless to speculate on it tonight.

RAY SUAREZ: And if we are looking at Iraqi compliance with 242, I know that recently a deal has been signed allowing some 900 million dollars a month of oil exports. Has that been working to the satisfaction of the United States and the other Security Council members so far?

RICHARD HOLBROOKE: There's been a lot of disagreement over that implementation. The Russians have continually charged that the implementation of these sanctions regimes have unfairly disadvantaged them. The Chinese have been upset. We on the other hand want to make them as tight as possible. That kind of tension will continue. It's inherent in the situation.

RAY SUAREZ: Well, a change is coming up in the makeup of the Security Council. Would you like to move things along quickly so that the vote can be taken with the current membership?

RICHARD HOLBROOKE: No. I'm not concerned about that at all, although I think you see the vote before the end of this month, before the end of the year. But the new composition of the Security Council is a good one, and we'll work with whoever is on it.

RAY SUAREZ: Well, let's turn to Africa. I know you do want the talk about Africa since you just came back. The numbers coming from AIDS reports sponsored by the UN have been nothing short of terrifying with some one out of three adults in some countries testing HIV-positive or believed to be HIV-positive. It's not only a human tragedy, but something that makes it very difficult for a poor country to move out of its poverty. What can you do to help these places in the meantime?

RICHARD HOLBROOKE: Well, I cannot even begin to stress how important this issue is. There are... most of the wars of the world are now raging in Africa, and one of the main focuses of our trip was to draw attention the them and figure out what we should be doing to deal with them. But despite these terrible wars in the Congo, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Angola and elsewhere, the fact is that ten times as many people are dying of AIDS as are dying in these wars. Now, this is a health problem all over the world, but in Africa it's much more than that. It threatens the economies of the countries. It's a security problem. We visited AIDS centers in every one of the ten countries we visited in Africa. Only one of the countries that we were in, Uganda, is really doing anything significant to reverse the trend. And the key problem here is one that Americans will understand if their memories stretch back to the early 80's, and that is the stigma attached to the disease. In Namibia, we met with six women who have AIDS, but in order to meet with them, they had to be driven in a covered van to the meeting place, and they couldn't allow themselves to be identified in public because they would lose their jobs. The result is that while they were brave enough to talk to us, they're still potential carriers of the disease. Worst of all, the police and the military in these countries are the primary... among the primary carriers. This is an epidemic of enormous historic proportion, and its cannot be ignored and it threatens a lot more than Africa because people travel. If it isn't dealt with. The administration has sought funds. It got less than it wanted, but it got some last year. On my trip, which I was accompanied by Senator Russ Feingold of Wisconsin, who's the ranking Democrat in the Senate on African affairs, we focused very heavily on this problem. And we're going to look for more ways to take action on it. Mrs. Clinton has been over to Africa and has inaugurated an AIDS center in Uganda, and she was in New York last week on UN AIDS Day working on the issue. But I'm just... I just want to stress to you that no problem that your program deals with, and you deal with all the large problems of the world, is any more alarming or more serious than this one. I have not seen anything that matches this for severity and importance.

RAY SUAREZ: Well, as you march along from country to country in the continent there is varied histories, very different in the 20th century, but some of the main tone setters in the culture have been socialists or central government command economies or the church through missions and the schools that they've run historically in Africa. These have been bodies that have often been unwilling to talk in a public way about human sexuality, about how AIDS is transmitted. Is there any sign that some of these individual countries are reversing that trend and where they may have been reluctant in the past now willing to talk about it in a public education way?

RICHARD HOLBROOKE: You know, in every country we were in, they now admit they have a huge problem and they wear the red ribbon. President Mbeki of South Africa was wearing the AIDS awareness ribbon when we saw him. They all have problems programs, but there are two problems: One is the one you elude to. Because the disease is sexually transmitted, it carries cultural overtones, which are extremely difficult for many countries to deal with. Let's face it, we had that problem here for a while, too. And it's only when people like Magic Johnson step forward and began to be destigmatized -- that has only happened in one of the countries we visited on this trip, Uganda, where President Museveni has very courageously led an open destigmatization campaign. The rates have dropped from 30 percent to 9 percent in Uganda. But everywhere else in Africa, they're still rising. Thailand is one of the other countries that has reversed the trend, and again it was through openness and education and prevention. Also treating it in Africa is difficult because the drugs are expensive, and basically in Africa when a person is identified with the disease, the rest of the population kind of writes that person off. So the person again doesn't want to admit that he or she has it. They can lose their job, they don't have legal protection. It is... and by the way, this does not simply hit the lower classes, as is often said by people. This disease is hitting the middle class, the entrepreneurial class, and the military and the police. It is very frightening, but it is not something that we kicking nor, and again, Ray, I stress this, Uganda's extraordinarily effective program proves that one cannot simply say it's hopeless. We must address the problem. We must encourage other countries to follow the example of countries like Uganda and Thailand.

RAY SUAREZ: Very briefly before we close, you mentioned that these are some of the same countries that are immersed in war. Are things looking better in the Congo and the states immediately surrounding it?

RICHARD HOLBROOKE: I would be hard put to give you a significantly optimistic report on either Angola or Congo. Both countries are engaged in brutal wars. Congo is the largest interstate war in the history of Africa. We visited all the countries in the region involved in the war. They wrote an agreement earlier this year themselves, an African solution to an African problem called the Lusacca Agreement because it was signed in Lusacca. If they implement this agreement, the United States and other countries will participate in a peacekeeping effort. But if they don't implement it, it would be an impossible task for outside forces to impose and force or pacify the situation in a country as vast as the Congo, which is larger than the United States East of the Mississippi. So what we now have is an intensification of American diplomatic efforts. Ambassador Howard Wolfe, our special envoy for the region whom I spoke to earlier this afternoon, is on his way back into the region to accelerate the negotiations. We're going to intensify our efforts. And -- but we are not going to send peacekeepers in until we are certain that they're part of a coherent process. The next few weeks are going to be -

RAY SUAREZ: Ambassador, I'm -

RICHARD HOLBROOKE: -- quite critical.

RAY SUAREZ: -- going to have to cut you off right there. It's good to talk to you again. Thanks.

RICHARD HOLBROOKE: Thank you, Ray.

FINALLY - IN MEMORIAM

JIM LEHRER: Finally tonight, remembering writer Joseph Heller. He had the rare distinction of coining a phrase that became part of American language and culture: "Catch-22," the title of his 1961 novel. There was a 1970 film made of the book. And Alan Arkin played Heller's character, Yossarian, the man struggling to understand the ways of war. Here is an excerpt.

ALAN ARKIN: Aug, I don't want to fly anymore.

ACTOR: Why?

ALAN ARKIN: It's dangerous.

ACTOR: Listen, I told you. Let's get out of here, huh?

ALAN ARKIN: I've flown 35 missions, for Christ's sake.

ACTOR: Take it easy.

ALAN ARKIN: Now that sadistic nut has raised the number up to 50. In any other outfit, I would have been rotated after 25. Doc, you got to help me out.

ACTOR: Look, I'm due for rotation myself in a couple of months if... If I don't cause any trouble, or break any rules. And one of the rules says I can't ground anyone just because he asks me to.

ALAN ARKIN: Can you ground somebody who's crazy?

ACTOR: Of course. I have to. There's a rule that says I have to ground anyone who's crazy.

ALAN ARKIN: I'm crazy!

ACTOR: Who says so?

ALAN ARKIN: Ask anybody. Ask Nately, Dobbs. Hey, Orr! Orr, tell him.

SECOND ACTOR: Tell him what?

ALAN ARKIN: Am I crazy?

SECOND ACTOR: He's crazy, doc. He won't fly with me. I take good care of him, but he won't. He's crazy, all right.

ALAN ARKIN: That's proof, isn't it. They all say I'm crazy.

ACTOR: They're crazy.

ALAN ARKIN: Why don't you ground them?

ACTOR: Why don't they ask me to ground them?

ALAN ARKIN:: Because they're crazy.

ACTOR: Of course they're crazy. I just told you that. You can't let crazy people decide whether you're crazy or not, can you?

ALAN ARKIN: Is he crazy?

ACTOR: Of course he is; he has to be if he keeps flying after all the close calls he's had.

ALAN ARKIN: Why can't you ground him.

ACTOR: He has to ask me.

ALAN ARKIN: That's all he's got to do to be grounded.

ACTOR: Yes.

ALAN ARKIN: Then you can ground him?

ACTOR: No, then I cannot ground him. There's a catch.

ALAN ARKIN: A catch.

ACTOR: Sure, catch-22. Anyone who wants to get out of come watt isn't really crazy, so I can't ground him.

ALAN ARKIN: Okay. Let me see if I got this straight. In order to be grounded I've got to be crazy. And I must be crazy to keep flying. But if I ask to be grounded that means I'm in the crazy anymore and I have to keep flying.

ACTOR: Of you got it. That's catch-22.

ALAN ARKIN: That's some catch, that catch-22.

JIM LEHRER: Last year, Joseph Heller talked to Charlie Rose about the war and his writing.

JOSEPH HELLER: My military experience was beneficial and enjoyable, almost entirely. Even those last missions when I was scared stiff became a rich experience because they were suspense. It was not boring.

CHARLIE ROSE: "Catch-22" was not an immediate critical and commercial success, was it?

JOSEPH HELLER: No, no.

CHARLIE ROSE: Yet I've often wondered about you, if you have been running against yourself throughout your life, i.e., every time you go out of the block, you're running against Joe Heller yourself, competing with Joe Heller, competing with "Catch-22".

JOSEPH HELLER: If I were a competitive person, that might be true. I'm not a competitive person. If I am, I redress it. I don't feel competitive. With other novelists or anything. "Catch-22," by the time I was doing my second novel, "Catch-22" had become a recognized success, and my second novel was deliberately very much different from "Catch-22." In the minds of many people, something happened in "Catch-22," as different as they are equal in accomplishment. And as I go into... as I slip into my golden years...

CHARLIE ROSE: About to enter your golden years.

JOSEPH HELLER: I'm very complacent. I'm very content with the knowledge that I did write "Catch-22" and something happened. I didn't have to beat myself, and when I wrote novel, I didn't want to beat other novelists, as well. I stuck to novel writing as opposed to other writing I did, screen writing and television writing because it's very intense and very personal.

JIM LEHRER: Joseph Heller died last night at age 76.

RECAP

JIM LEHRER: And, again, the other major stories of this Monday: The Surgeon General issued a major report that said one American in five suffers from mental illness in any given year, but two-thirds do not seek treatment because of shame or cost of care. Russian troops claimed to have entered the outskirts of Grozny and seized the airport, but Chechen rebels disputed that claim. And the Israeli parliament voted to endorse new peace talks with Syria. The talks will begin Wednesday in Washington. We'll see you online, and again here tomorrow evening. I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank you and good night.