The MacNeil/Lehrer Report; The Gifted Child

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funding for this program has been provided by the station and other public television stations and by grants from exxon corporation allied chemical corporation and the corporation for public broadcasting

it's been leaking a meeting earlier this month a couple in mchenry illinois soon their local school district for a million dollars a couple have a ten year old son who has an iq of a hundred and seventy they claim their schools are denied inappropriate education their cases pushed international attention the long simmering debate over how to educate and nurture the talents of the brightest young americans it's know in significant numbers it's estimated there are one to two million children with extraordinary gifts potentially the future einstein's margaret mead's norman mailers or future leaders in any

field these children are often hard to identify and often difficult to deal with they been called the stepchildren of the public school system afforded less care and attention than their school fellows who are handicapped indeed some argue britain's has become a handicap for many gifted children tonight who are the gifted children and how should they be educated robin givhan special attention to gifted children is not an apple pie motherhood idea that everybody favors it has its detractors psychologist bruno battle i'm for one who says i feel the gifted child despite the concern of many parents as well able to take care of himself if he isnt he isn't gifted others say the whole concept of the leaks because it fosters the idea of gifted children as being separate and apart from the her yard those on the other side say many super bright kids cannot make it on their own many get bored and then become underachievers and serious discipline problems and as a result they're

both actually very and minds are forever lost a society problem a couple more about the million dollar lawsuit know a noir mystery mrs ronald or what their sun with a hundred and seventy iq is tommy he and his father are with us tonight was during what made you realize that tommy was a gifted child well our first indications occurred when tammy was approximately two years old and up until that time he had really never spoken out one day he walked up to my wife and said mommy i please have an ice cream cone in a full sentence that seemed a little unusual but hard to identify a two years later at the age of four he had memorized most of the major organs of the human body by studying a chart the encyclopaedia britannica symptoms such as that crept up until at the age of seven term was tested by the public school system for what they thought were learning disabilities it was as a result of that testing that we confirm their suspicions estimates gifted and is based at least on those tests and those tests were then corroborated by an outside

psychologist well what brought you to rule us at least unusual loesser well as i said in nineteen seventy seven a february haven't completed his testing both within the school district and through our private psychologist with the results would indicate that he was gifted they wrote a brief memorandum to file at that time indicating that time would have to have a special program or he would be very prone to becoming a behavior problem a few months ago the school recommended in place on one of behavior modification program in the interim they had provided no special attention to the gifted i felt that having been given the obligation and then giving the tools in the diagnosis with which to work their failure to do so is reprehensible and legally hadn't had visible there you are a lawyer and presumably you have a very clear idea what you want from this lawsuit a million dollars is a lot of money what is it exactly that you want all the money into this is this perhaps questionable lessons you

look at what is being destroyed here and i'm sure that it's negligent actor i charged the cure cheryl tiegs were to cut off or laden and her career and the results in terms of our damages would be quite high and i think that a negligence school that thwarts the development of a gifted mine is responsible at least to the two million dollars deal will walk under special education you want for john in terms of specifics early dark i'm not an educator and i don't purport to be educated the school has discussed the specifics of the special education program with an outside psychologist in with other professional educators and i would have to defer to their expertise if you feel the public schools have failed a one armed private schools financial and geographic restrictions of course are important and there aren't any private schools suited to terms needs within a reasonable distance secondly we have a public school system in illinois it's

charged with the responsibility of educating every child to the maximum extent of their ability they fail to do that you feel about your story well there are a lot of armed gangs in the school that are sometimes interesting and sometimes just what to expect at the school oh things like wharf work nat anything special and that anything to expect but just basically school is going to pollute well armed the legal things about it you'll have to ask my dad but i think that was a lot of the work that i'm doing is very worn if you could if you could make a school just rework on distorted because it's not about what you really want as gordon

yes i am very interested in foreign language he is an especially science and a part of some to christian electronics basically hard line very interested in nuclear physics too but i'm willin and supplies that you do you are you would know what you want to believe well i would like to join the air force after armed few years and then going to become a nuclear physicist in what you read in the book shooting well there's a series of our library on cover times series and i've read a live here there are only six of their series in there and i've read all of those in our school library and which in this book are a rich truly the best book i mean this probably has nothing to do what's going on right now but the name of the book is the great brain does it

again and that's about a boy genius just like me whose names term and ah it it took place a long time ago when he was a kid that would swing all people out of stuff then make up his own schemes and his mule out of things they think you're not all parents of gifted children want or approve of special programs for their children one parent with reservations about them as dorothy wyler of sunnyvale calif or she is a teacher member of phi beta kappa herself mother to gifted children ms wheeler why did you refuse to put your two sons are i believe are ten and eleven that into california is gifted children and i felt that this is a program has its design that is harmful to other children as well as to those children in it because well if i can explain a program to get into the program you are tested about the age of seven

with an iq test if you scored a hundred and thirty two more about you are given qualitatively different education from that time forward all the way through elementary and secondary schools in effect this establishes innovative that is guaranteed certain privileges further furthermore denies the same privileges to the other ninety percent the children i don't think it's healthy for that other ninety eight percent but at the same time it i don't think it's healthy for that two percent i think it gives them a false image of what they have who they are perhaps protesters to press on and i think it's better for them to find other ways to implement their education then california has found it's a bit like those systems in some european countries this is england where they would segregate children from eleven on them put some an academically intensive education and others and less intensive education well it california has done has had a something a little different about what they do is they they have the

students together in the same school generally others school district sued they have a separation more than ours but i what the team to do as hemp field trips from northern california where we live but we've had children going to san diego for a two day excursion off the coast to observe whales or another was a two day trip to to fight in palm springs just a train another journalist in egypt that's right but i dont think thats the demographics and concerns your recent service yes i think it is the children's self esteem in both those children who are in you know i think they should not feel that they are better than the other children and the children who are out of it should not have to feel are losers but you do believe that gifted children like your own require some kind of special education well we use a special education i think that every if you come right down to every child has special needs hesitate case of tom who has an interest in foreign languages if that's available in the school district i certainly think that that

opportunities should be giving him and i think perhaps the school district to look at at what it's doing and re evaluate certain other areas of nuclear physics as he is as an example i don't think school districts are equipped to handle that stress can handle foreign language are you one of those who believes that gifted children will make it anyway and they know without any special help well i i have some sympathy with that at the same time i do think that there is the danger of gifted children getting bored but that's the danger i'm taking with my own children i think that's a healthier and healthier problem at least in my own situation than to take the chance of there feeling that they are not part of a humanity if you are they are set apart they are a special breed but i don't feel they are i think that used in an article example of how she was brave new world mikhail for children in segregated yes i think that that segregation is unhealthy i think that they

should be up all together for a good part of every educational day if possible i'm sure there are exceptions there are exceptions to every rule at the same time that i i think that california has gone overboard and there is always that danger of elitism not everyone feels is naive about programs for gifted children and was a large gallery of about a dozen he is presently in such a program she's eleven years old technically a ninth grader was taking college friendship is the accelerated work a nap and biology she lives with her family in the washington suburb of mclean virginia first gary when and how you identified as someone who should take special or accelerated instruction aleppo about mr everett doesn't have gotten oh my teacher was giving a lot of book tour a hand she said my mom and i want

and that's why i have been impressed by it took a testament little by little you started skipping grades as our right i i and when you say will some of the classes now for instance the french is actually a college level the tricky are taking out a right to know how is that for a special problems which are having area join it if you're challenging a lot of the war ii does the discrepancy in a speech a new emir fellow students cognitive problems or social or otherwise or your lawyer or your age and he ever thought about what your situation would be like if you had not gotten about

five and kindergarten as you say and got an innate some special episode was a little unclear situation to help you accelerate your education law oh boy oh yeah and it's terrible what happens when you get bored in school yet turned off or do you see yourself as waters says she's she's concerned about the impact of those special programs like all major anyone could cause you you feel you and others are in these programs to feel like you're a special person exceptional pershing separate and apart from russia society

and feel he'd be thought about that it feel about iraq have sharpened our way and what about the attitude toward you by others who are not in that as a story of progress and they feel duty a period that and comfortable feeling of your peers coming here aged peers they all our hero innovations hot stuff because his skits and gray area that we are in any negative reactions vocational education allow or politically what you're having right now is the senate lead on the arctic right now that i think the club books

to do read a lot one euro i am a comic book series and get to know it what kind of villager again raise a question of emotional wow the irish times thank you you're right it is the first live now finally to an overview of the situation from john rossi director of gifted and talented policy information from the council for exceptional children the grass is a former teacher gifted children at the university level barry's education has been accelerated mr grassley and the other approaches to leave egypt to chow ryan in the same grave with special enrichment programs which apparently a similar what's happening in california newswire outline what is that the record national which approach works best they're really it isn't one approach it works better than the other for all

situations you can make a blanket statement say that acceleration is the best approach or richness the best approach in all the plans basically on the individual child in the individual informal to trial that operation they have valor for instance is going to be doing best in a program such as the one she's in which takes place in a couple weeks at a university not too close to her home for the next five or there might be another sport gets into how the child who is in the same community as valerie who did best staying in his school have the resources of an itinerant teacher so basically depends on on the child's tuition at us was worried well i think that it's very possible to have a program for gifted and tell the children should be somewhat of an elitist of elitist program i think that same thing could hold true for any type of program aboud when dealing here though is broader than that concert we're dealing with kids who are having problems in school because their abilities are not being matched by the education programs being offered in the past decade many parents have resorted to putting a gift into the chill in

private schools because the public schools or not really needing their special needs if that's been interpreted to be an elitist approach i think that we have to look at that a little closer eye on gleeson i have a difficult time dealing with that because i don't feel that i sound educational program that's gonna provide and special education to that child needs it is at least through this but what about just turned get here these are these are our children who have a voluntary nature label as long they had been given a special gift why the nation should they get a second tier which is a special education or special attention to education which is the argument that sally ourselves off and especially patients and if they think it's what's the right to education market we have no qualms about educating handicapped children because we feel they need a special education and they didn't tell the child is an exceptional child like a handicap child's an exceptional child in that event tell the child deserves to have a right to an education is going to need the child's needs are there's another part of the argument goes

like this the society's got an awful lot to do as it is without expanding the phones in the energy to help the children with special guests just in terms of priorities a society and you feel about that well by hewlett of wheaton or a gifted until the child who has so much to offer to our society then we are our prayers i think have to be reassessed if we ignore the gifted and talented child and i think our society will not benefit and primarily given to a child and of course was just initially people would say that history is full of the great minds to make great contributions to society robin wisch miniseries of the top and now these people came out and he gifted children programs so well they think people not all wouldn't well i only did that over again

and we have a really gifted and talented children children first and even count seconds because of that they have the same problems as any other child would have arrived at that age level as they're not even to hold hearings it's true there have been a number of people who have not connecticut until the programs and have gone on to do wonderful things however we don't have a statistics about those who didn't make it because their knees were intended to talk so i think that by pulling up one or two examples of not really give an accurate picture we don't know who appears like it from us it's a lot to ask whether we know start with you lose one or whether we know enough now about how the wood enterprise such children two were confidently launched programs to help them no i don't think so i think we have iq test that they're unlimited i don't think they measure creativity they don't they don't measure determination and certainly those reports gifted as i also think that a study by rose and colin jacobsen opinion in

classrooms is relevant at this point where students were grouped into two groups one was gifted and one was an average on and they were given two separate teachers both teachers were told they had gifted growths on at the end of a school year both groups achieved as gifted students even though one was at the beginning of the year classified as an average so i think sometimes and we ran into a self fulfilling prophecies you know the traditions of the money the students and their teachers yes i think also negatively when you tell a child that he is not a gifted at that image i sit next to you is gifted minute you tell that student well you know don't worry about it life goes on even if you don't have much i don't think that's fair and that child mr werner where do you think mr warren i don't know that that the testing is subtle enough so far one can identify that you're sometimes very high iq can you really identify those parts of his guests he says he's interested in comics nuclear science now maybe it's going to emerge that his gifts

are all slightly different band as they develop where's your dues if you designed a program out to exploit his particular interest at the moment might you not turn stop those gifts from developing as the ninth world first of all using the term gift i think we have to look at what this so called gift is this is simply a potential is a potential it's linked to thought to mind process of pete rose's clearly gifted as an athlete and we don't look at him as an elitist so let's look at that as far as diagnosing if you will with great deal of specifically the needs of power nearly get the job i think it's a ludicrous approach i think we say it we have here a generalize full potential to use a mind and simply provide an environment

in which that mind can grow and also in deference to have a guest there with respect to motivating i think that you know if all children were treated as gifted and undoubtedly there probably would be a better achievement only because we're providing them with the motivation that all children should have mr rosser you're be an expert here were spent his life thinking about this duo we are weaved well enough to advance in the testing and evaluation all these children to be really confident about the program's they should have or are we still groping your way in the dark and i think you probably groping a little bit still one of the problems with getting intel that education is that there really is not that much research has been done to verify this approach is best for this approach might be that i'll leave you have i think experience through line which might be stronger than some research and

justin that a number of years we've been dealing with these various programs or these various issues have proven that this one approach of his temper program doesn't even needs a certain children but i think that we still are out looking at ways which might add that serve children in all areas identification they want would you like your tommy to go into an accelerated program or the enrichment program based on what valerie as you describe her situation as waters describes california's situation for openers i like this economy go into any program from there will have to decide what is the best in the business i say you know you have not explored a field you like to go to school up and a grade and they would say year to fifth grade now right was let's say that there was decided that you could go to some of their eighth grade would you mind on in a class with kids much older than you if you have that capture attention that was interesting to you now i wouldn't

because the social point of it is much smaller than the educational point and i'd very much like to if at all possible going to a higher grade that's how you feel about two thirds are near spirit's the social thing is really irrelevant in terms of what you get in terms of your education is our right as the grass and the government says that one is that only five percent of the gifted children in the united states are actually getting special attention that they deserve is an inaccurate figure based on here research my research indicates that approximates forty one percent of those people and tell their children and then identified in this country are receiving services our special educational services are a number that are receiving adequate special educational services to meet their unique needs is another question i think that there is an issue that can really give us an accurate information as the

churning toward right now i'm actually toward more special education forgive killers of leveling offers on the decrease or what's know i think the trend is deathly on the app out for special education gifted and tell the children and over the last year we have seen an increase in states that are placing administration programs they progressed to get the intel that in their state department's division of exceptional children education special education i'll have also seen an increase in state or pro appropriating money swan education gifted and talented and four is that a matter of fact there are fourteen states now or which are proving a million dollars or more for the education of children in that province yes sir lowry thank you for joining us tonight and honest rossi thank you and determine during ms wilder imagine a solver tonight will be back on monday night i'm robert macneil tonight at eight

it's been oregon's than one dollar to the macneil lehrer report office report by new york new york the one oh oh one nine inches in the mueller report was produced by wnet wpa they are solely responsible for its content funding for this program has been provided by the station and other public television stations and bike grant excellent cooperation allied chemical corporation and the corporation for public broadcasting's kristian is ha ha ha ha ha

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