The MacNeil/Lehrer Report; Wild Horses

it's b funding for this program has been provided by the station and other public television stations and by grants from exxon corporation allied chemical corporation and the corporation for public broadcasting right right weeks before good evening and you always wanted a horse if you're one of those people whose dreams whose childhood of being a cowboy and breaking wild

horses the federal government has an answer to those dreams the bureau of land management has wild horses up for adoption by suitable people they call it adopting horse and think it's a humane solution there were growing problem over a population of wild mustangs and drought stricken grazing lands in the west but it's a solution that drives some numbers of the wild horses up the wall and their anger has grown with the introduction of bills in congress they believe could weaken the protections for this attractive symbol of the western heritage the situation is coming to a head as the bureau's speeds up the capture of horses to beat the winter snows tonight the wild horse controversy you'd fallen first a shocking bit of history the fabled horse of the american west the cowboys best friend is actually a foreign import there were no horses here until the spanish confused the doors brought them here in the fifteen hundred their main purpose of course was martin and transportation for my hair but some of the horses broke loose and again

around while others were intentionally set free and mike on the role through the years they began to congregate and the band's living running and running in the open lines of the west particularly in the states of nevada utah oregon and wyoming which now have the largest numbers of these wild horses until nineteen seventy one the horses live pretty much an unregulated like they shared the public lands with cattle and other animals in and hope and survival of the fittest environment but then along came in about a woman named velma jobs and the story has it that he encountered a truck on a dusty road about twenty five years ago a truck was jam packed with wild horses on their way to a slaughterhouse and later met so she began organizing an all out effort to get federal protection for the wild horses of the west picking up the nickname wild horse and he in the process records finally bore fruit in nineteen seventy one congress passed the wild horse and borrow act the new law said quote wild free roaming horses and burros are living symbols of that

historic and pioneer spirit otherwise and that these horses and burros are fast disappearing from the american city congress was all fourteen again wild free roaming horses and girls shall be protected and capture branding harassment or death an accomplished as they are to be considered in the area us bureau of land management says wild horses are no longer disappearing from the americans the latest bureau figures from nineteen seventy six show that there are forty two thousand wild horses four times the figure nineteen seventy one when the act was passed critics of the bureau say that kind of increase over six years is impossible and they accuse the government of playing with the figures to sue their own parties or whatever the number there are a lot of forests lost cattle and other animals on the western range and they're all competing for the limited forage in an area severely hurt by droughts over graceland and that conditions are combining to create the beginnings of new desk

it's a wild horse people say it's unfair when the overgrazing problems solely on the horses of catwoman have long put out more cattle graze the arrangements for some ranchers haven't fact cut back on the size of their herds and the threatened arranged what to do round them up and offer them for adoption now across the various western states government helicopters and has the right to locate their herds and then begin the run sadly he'd yeah yeah yeah as

bishop the adoption route is one of three options open the government the other two are considered less than desirable right now one would be to kill off the excess horses killing would have to be humanely done and the law forbids any selling of the carcasses or any other commercial uses the url field the public outcry from a mass horse slaughter on public lands like that option unworkable the other is to move the horses to other rangers that might be better able to handle the bureau says no such ranges as it exits so for the timing of rounding up the horses and trying to find them private homes israel says will be used for a commercial venture any time that you cannot take care of an ally and

we can get more that i read about that might be around them are really people i wrote a yard of paper a lot of the government of your love or i do oh lord my own now so far about three thousand forces have been adopted under a provision which makes legal ownership always remain with a government thus far most of the horses taken off the rangers have been adopted only the second old horses have been disposed of otherwise but the bureau of land management says the time mason convoy everyone who wants their own wild horse may be accommodated in the four years of the debt the option may have to be a huge problem some of the largest herd of wild horses the bureau of land management has to look after in the state of nevada rancher mccormick is the bureau's associate state director for nevada and he's with us this evening a television station klse in las vegas mr mccormick highways of baltimore's working all present time it's

working quite well but as you mentioned earlier we feel it as we get additional number of horses we may well run out of applicants to have them going private custody i read somewhere that you had a waiting list of about eight thousand people for the course says that so that may be the number that we have on the computer list in denver but unfortunately when we get all of those people many of them and change their minds since the time they put in her application for the horse or having to go through as many as ten or twelve names before if i get one who agreed to come and get a horse so you have horses waiting for people as a matter fact nevada we have about six hundred waiting for adoption right now i say art is it hard to get them adopted because of the restrictions that are placed on late adopter or worse i'm sure this is a factor in other words the individual can never own a horse for say under the existing law so this i'm sure is in inhibiting factor why is this about their

risky necessary in your view well my dear i i guess it's necessary in order to exhaust all methods of getting rid of excess forces before we have to go to the final solution as it now exists under the law in terms of humanely disposing of the horses there were surges to stop that scene works well i'm afraid in terms of the numbers that we're talking about it's not a long term solution it's one thing to get rid of thirty three thousand horses it may be entirely different situation were trying to adopt out their ten thousand or more horses a year so you may be forced to shrink well as maybe our ability tell me as a representative of the bureau of land management what kinds of interests do you have to balance in dealing with this question well basically our mission is one of protecting the productive capacity of the public range lands under the management of the bureau of land management and

muses on these range lands are domestic livestock while horses and girls while life's big game and small gain the recreation grill type uses off road vehicles uses of the land for mining and we have several others for help with our horses even if there are cows the bureau said last year forty two thousand in the country is not a small number of animals compared with a number of other animals using the rangers if you're talking about the total numbers of animals using all of oranges yes this is true but as you mentioned earlier most of these animals are the least the majority these animals or nevada they're a nevada manages some of forty eight million acres of of range land and while horses are raging over about twenty four million acres of that they say oh thank you mr koenig welcome back among the loudest voices for curbing the horses have been those of the cattlemen bob wright is

president of the nevada cattlemen's association used to write is a lifetime cattlemen and so we're four generations of his family before him was to write why are the horses a problem for cattle and when they want your second half to nineteen fifty one it provided for the protection management and control of the horses the protection have occurred but unfortunately the management and control and not as a result in certain areas so the bureau of land management of that the ranchers cut back on a permit in oregon the numbers just to give them as much as thirty forty percent you know that no this year one operator who had a long term license to raise livestock did not turn into livestock out of all because of a culmination of the drouth and the wild horses works is the more severe the driver the wild horses why

would they would be about abel isaac and nurses are reading the grass that the cattle could be well the horses are out there called one for the year were at the cavernous gone there for certain created pint of the horses its first can't afford to there in the state of nevada mr wright roughly how many horses versus how many cattle are we talking about do you have an idea i couldn't get it exactly you for cattle that bought thirty five thousand horses have been counted by the bureau of land management my aircraft with us to make the number of car would be many more times that number i would think it would be more than that yet more than i mean like thoughts on certain sunset number and five that i don't have that figured total for this day i say these are public lands that are that these cattle and the horses are grazing the art world tour if you're fourteen years or cattlemen why should a

commercial interest like cattle growing have a prior plane over the over the grazing land well what you do you have a better time than our system willie licenses for granted to cattle ranchers to settle this country their back and until the leaking hundreds of the late eating hundreds and this is the part of the operation without the use of these grazing lands leave these writers would not be a feasible to operate in syria does one horace eat a great deal more grass then maybe steer who's led up to graze during those months of the year would generally they're about a pool of article was the problem so acute right now well north of increase for some particular reason here in nevada and like wide open spaces we ran some figures that show with

using the helicopter out that the bureau has here in nevada that in ten years the wild horses will be consuming all if for egypt available on the public lands that includes ford has delegated the wild horses livestock and wildlife forensics well finally what would you like to see done with the horses that would be your solution was like to see that the earl make a determination of available for aid for the horses in and get the numbers reduced to that number and i would like to hear the adoption or program philip a person who does receive a horse if they show good faith in six eight months one year they can legally own the heart the costs that have been shown by the la and using helicopters to get these forces is excessive the latest figures that i saw a few days ago at five hundred dollars per course i think that ship they should consider using fixed wing aircraft instead of

helicopters the present contractor helicopter from about a hundred twelve dollars for our worth a fixed wing could possibly be guarded for about thirty dollars a prime minister thinking are there many other kinds of animals which have to share the range land with a wild horses and cattle in here to speak on their behalf is doctor michael berger assistant director for biological matters of the national wildlife federation a conservation organization with three point five million members of or what is the overgrazing and drug combination going to the other wildlife on the western markets well it's a combination of factors is reducing while our population specific what populations are especially susceptible to drought conditions i'm sure that the mule deer pronghorn antelope as many as well as many small mammals are having trouble so many that the game that are being affected like antelope and deer that these are the most evident panels most visible but i'm sure the impacts are therefore birds

and many small mammals too much of the blame for this would you put on the wild horse probably won't really a definitive studies of the interactions between horses and again amal saad had not completed any detail that tendency is for horses and livestock to compete to a much greater extent that horses and then and game however several of the western states again parties have indicated that they're our competition problems between increasing numbers of horses and white populations in their states who's winning a competition horse a little while it's difficult to say at this time but the drought condition has essentially enhance the whole thing so it's it's really a drawer right now over losing well from your perspective

the duties of the bureau of land management baseball to do with this land all mortal blow uses and included recreation now while game along with wild horses cattle it as sutter how where would you put the emphasis worship where do you think you think the priorities are out of whack right now a water well the laws which the euro when it must operate under called for a balanced use of multiple units where all the uses of the public lands must be considered and i would like to see a balanced use where no one single uses dominant over the others but they're all balance so that an optimum usage comes about like a cake you feel is over ballester in one direction right now because of its past history a yes is slightly over balance in favor of the war's well because of the

waldorf protection act us all the other uses of the public lands are are being managed and controlled the numbers of wildlife are being controlled the numbers of livestock are being controlled through the permit system but the numbers of wild horses are not being controlled accepted a dark horse program this is probably very short range solution what you see is a long range are thank thea the first step is to get transfer a pile of these animals to the media the parents if you will people in the force as it is now for one of many reasons people or may not want to adopt a horse because they never do get clear title to the house if they were given a clear title say at some future point time they decided they didn't want that animal anymore they could then dispose of the ministers i mean

selling to another individual it was like you know is robert is why organic that doesn't work only a moment that moving on down the line if that does not work would you be in favor of of disposing of the animals in a humane way in a mass basis if that's what it took to get it done yes it probably would be no i'm not talking about sending two canning plants i think you would have to collect the animals and they could be sold or donated with the written permission are written a provision that they receive humane care and treatment and then they could be disposed of in that manner i think this this makes use of a resource on public lands under the present law if we don't have enough people to adopt the excess animals the only no other alternatives for the house to be shot and left on the ground in iraq one of the most outspoken friends of the wild horses is

hope riding a journalist and television producers she's written two books and numerous articles about the wild horses illustrated with their own photographs what do you think of about the horse i don't favor that program and all so i don't believe that the bureau's figures are accurate certainly their growth that is not reliable and i think the doctor wars program is them very inefficient way of controlling numbers if indeed there is a population program it's very stressful on all the animals they all must be rounded up they all must be herded into corrals many are injured polls are separated from mary's stallions are pushed into fighting proximity with one another over a cup of these points first of all the figures were what do you think the figure should be you think there are too many horses as well there may be that many wars is now an there may have been that many horses five years ago they do

not now that the horses are exploding and their figures that they have given to the public and in fact before senate committees and in fact before on a judge a federal judge have been called totally unreliable for example i can ship i can show you that anybody can understand that that they are from the point of view of a natural biological increase of course heard it cannot happen happy first of all every mayor takes eleven months to bear a fall and half the herd is female the other half is not bearing any polls know mayor there is a full until she's three years old and fat the one scientific study that i have with me it shows that only two three year olds and one

wild herd were capable of bearing young art now given tests set of limitations the wild horse heard which the blm said in nineteen seventy number nine thousand five hundred animals given that every female capable of bearing the fall did so and that no horse died of any cause what's the word for it would now be approximately twenty nine thousand horses another time they're sixty five thousand horses either they were wrong in nineteen seventy in which case then what is the optimum number where they cutting this back to what they thought was the optimum number in nineteen seventy what would have led forces recently left alone in her do well in my view and in the view of most reputable biologists all animals will peak and crash and this is very much tied to weather now the drought is a factor that is going to slow

down or reproductive it without any help from the blm without an adopt a horse program on the are the animals that are selected by nature not just survive a condition like a drought are the misfits whereas the animals that are rounded up for an adopt a horse program are the best specimens so to sum up you think that they don't need to do this because the horses nature will take care of the rate of growth and they're not growing at the rate i think they are acting without sufficient data without reliable data judge ritchie said they were acting without reliable data and recently us senator mike have sent a letter saying that he was very reluctant to do anything about changing the law based on their data air force one that you have taken your data well i would certainly agree with the us is right and that

our regional theaters are certainly some bigger question andrea nineteen seventy one thing the nineteen seventy one very sad at that time and i don't think the bureau has ever maintain anything else these were the best estimate that we had at the time were not based on aerial house as many of our fingers are now over the period of years as were able to do better job of counting both by fixed wing and by helicopter we feel are figures are getting more and more accurate all the time but i certainly when cora with a beginning point in time and obviously she's directed a mathematical standpoint that nine thousand horses could not increase to the present numbers are not legally clear this one won question on this i use the figure at the very beginning of the program may be a bureau figure of forty two thousand wild horses she said that the blm figures sixty five thousand horses which one of those is accurate well it depends on what you're you're talking about i think the forty two thousand figure comes from nineteen seventy six also represents forty two thousand wild and free roaming and claim horses and their

additional eleven thousand forces out there that are claimed by private ranchers or other individuals at a total of horses on the range of both categories of about fifty three thousand dr berger is your organization have any figures would you agree with that basic they just laid out for the last of the nineteen seventy six years i don't agree with those of the figures we hear on it you're a biologist so what about the news rival's point that the animals left alone nature will take care of that problem well i believe her own statement about the boom and bust cycles is correct animal populations tend to do that one day grossly exceed the carrying capacity of their habitat for one reason or another their populations will crash the problem i have with this is that and being so overpopulated leading up to the crash and they have they will have severely reduced the ability of the habitat to maintain and also that other

areas other sources including the animals and cells as well as others the original great you agree with or basic premise but you don't think it's about in this particular case is to write what you think you think that might've gone to take care of the prominent and know in your area not that i'm sure well i would i would like you hear dr eagleman about a week hard winter we've had in the past and i have them in the future of the forces were starring that she would tell the american public will lead and i don't even pay i definitely would not tell the public to feed them hey i don't believe in in it interfering in in that direction either think that's very on misguided and i feel that nature is removing the misfits this has been going on since time immemorial in animal populations and we're not the ones that should choose

which ones are lemonade in which one should survive that then we are better land managers so that we can provide for these horses during hard winners in our hard winters ago they grew up on ridges where the wind blows it off a little bit and the user friendly this sort of a shovel part down through the grass and if there's nothing for them to eat because of their of overpopulation and i think it's very inhumane well but it's very interesting thank you gentleman in las vegas very much seconds to burger in washington think it was rotten imagine gilad i'll be back tomorrow night and in closing if you're interested in your doctor nurse program you can write to the interior building washington dc too low too formal the

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