The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

MR. LEHRER: Good evening. I'm Jim Lehrer in Washington.

MR. MacNeil: And I'm Robert MacNeil in New York. After tonight's News Summary, we have an extended report from the British journalist who got inside Bosnian detention camps, and two Senators debate what to do to stop the slaughter in Yugoslavia. Next, resuming our coverage of campaign stump speeches, we have excerpts from speeches by President Bush and Bill Clinton. We close tonight with a report on the economic plight of salmon fishermen in the Pacific Northwest.NEWS SUMMARY

MR. MacNeil: The first visual evidence of Serb-run prison camps in Bosnia was seen today and as it was, the U.S. moved to crack down on Serbian aggression in the former republic of Yugoslavia by granting full diplomatic recognition to Bosnia, Croatia, and Slovenia. British Television pictures showed two Bosnian camps where atrocities are alleged to have taken place. The prisoners in the pictures are Muslim. The British reporters who spoke with them said most were too afraid to talk. Those who did quietly acknowledged that prisoners had been beaten and killed by Serb guards. The reporters were allowed to see very little of the camps and were ordered to leave when they pressed to see more. The leader of Bosnia's Serbs saw those pictures but denied the men were being mistreated. He said their condition was due to food shortages in Bosnia and insisted that conditions were better at other detention centers. President Bush called on the United Nations Security Council for quick passage of a resolution authorizing the use of all necessary means, including military force, to make sure relief supplies can be delivered. The President said he was outraged and horrified by the violence and said Serbia should be isolated by the international community. He spoke at Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado.

PRESIDENT BUSH: This resolution will authorize the international community to use force, if necessary, to deliver humanitarian relief supplies. My heartfelt hope is that that will not prove necessary, but the international community cannot stand by and allow innocent children, women, and men to be starved to death. And you can be assured that should force serve necessary, I will do everything in my power to protect the lives of any American servicemen or women involved in this international mission of mercy. To truly end the humanitarian nightmare, we must stop ethnic cleansing and open any and all detention camps to international inspection.

MR. MacNeil: Before the President's call, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee passed a resolution which went a step further, urging the U.N. to authorize military force to stop the shelling of civilians. The vote was 12 to 4 in favor of the resolution. Massachusetts Democrat John Kerry supported it. Kentucky Republican Mitch McConnell was one of four Republicans opposed.

SEN. JOHN KERRY, [D] Massachusetts: If ever there was a glaring lesson that leapt out of World War II, that leaps out of Tibet, that leaps out of Cambodia, and that leaps out of the demise of the Soviet Union, it is that when civilized countries don't come together to respond to this kind of wholesale terror then we are by commission we are acting, ourselves, in a way that is aiding and abetting what is happening.

SEN. MITCH McCONNELL, [R] Kentucky: I think we ought to be real clear about what we're authorizing here. We are authorizing the use of ground forces to disarm these forces inside Bosnia. And I don't think we should kid ourselves. You could make a case for that. I'm not saying that some people won't favor that, but I think we ought to be very candid about what we're doing.

MR. MacNeil: The resolution will go before the full Senate in the next few days. We'll have more on this story after the News Summary. Jim.

MR. LEHRER: A senior official said today Iraq would not allow any more U.N. weapons inspections at its government ministries. Iraq's culture minister said the visits were harmful to Iraq's sovereignty and independence. Last month, an inspection at the Ministry of Agriculture was prevented for three weeks. The U.N. inspectors were eventually allowed in and nothing was found. A new inspection team heads for Baghdad Friday. President Bush said in Colorado today the United States would make sure the U.N. had access to all suspected weapon sites in Iraq. White House Spokesman Marlin Fitzwater added this.

MARLIN FITZWATER, White House Spokesman: Saddam Hussein makes a lot of irrational and sometimes irrelevant statements, but we don't really know whether he's just speaking for local consumption or trying to impress somebody in his own country, or whether he really intends to try to carry this out. But I assure that the intention of the United Nations and the intent of the United States is quite strong and quite serious.

SPOKESMAN: What are our options? How do we back up this demand?

MARLIN FITZWATER: Well, we have any number of options. We don't discuss those specifically. We certainly don't comment on military options.

MR. LEHRER: The United States continued its show of force in Kuwait today. More than 5,000 U.S. troops are taking part in joint exercises with Kuwaiti forces. The two-week exercises were timed to coincide with the anniversary of Iraq's 1990 invasion of Kuwait.

MR. MacNeil: In economic news, new claims for unemployment benefits soared in late July. The Labor Department said 469,000 people filed first-time claims in the week ended July 25th, an increase of 69,000 from the week before. That was the biggest one- week jump in a decade. But nearly all of it was attributed to short-term layoffs in the auto industry. General Motors became the last of the big three automakers to report second quarter results. GM said it had a net loss of $357 million in the April to June quarter, but only because of a big restructuring charge. Without that charge, GM showed a $392 million profit from operations. Its onetime charge was to pay for the cost of layoffs at a defense electronics subsidiary. Last week, Chrysler and Ford both reported better than expected profits for the second quarter.

MR. LEHRER: Something finally went right for the space shuttle Atlantis astronauts today. They got word that a European space agency satellite was finally in a useful orbit. It had been launched from the shuttle Sunday but failed to reach a high enough orbit. It was lifted today by electronic commands from controllers on the ground. Last night, the crew gave up on their attempt to drag another satellite through space on a 12-mile cord to generate electricity. After two days of work, they could not unreel the long cord required.

MR. MacNeil: That's our summary of the news. Now it's on to Serbian detention camps, how to stop the killing, Bush and Clinton on the stump, and Salmon fishermen without a catch. FOCUS - STOPPING THE SLAUGHTER

MR. MacNeil: We begin tonight with the Yugoslav story on a day in which pictures of gaunt men in detention camps of a kind not seen in Europe since the end of World War II were followed by a statement from President Bush announcing American support for stronger United Nations action to stop the fighting in the republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina. Pressure has been increasing on the administration to take stronger measures. Yesterday, Democratic presidential candidate Bill Clinton repeated his statement that the U.S. should consider using force. This morning on the op-ed page of the New York Times, former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher belittled excuses in the United States and her own country for not taking military action to help the Bosnian Muslims fend off Serbian attacks. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee voted 12 to 4 for a resolution calling for all necessary means, including military force, to help the Bosnians. And late this morning, U.S. Television began showing reports by Britain's Independent Television News from a Serbian-run detention camp in the Bosnian town of Omarska. This report was prepared by ITN Correspondent Ian Williams.

MR. WILLIAMS: These are the Muslim prisoners of Omarska. In small groups, under heavy Serbian guard, they are ushered into the canteen for their single meal of the day. Most have been here for two months. They say they don't know why, but they were rounded up from their homes. They were too frightened to talk about the way they have been treated and the conditions in which they have been kept, conditions which have been hidden from the world as the Serbs have denied access here to the United Nations and to the International Red Cross. Their prison is an old mining complex outside Banyaluka in northern Bosnia. In an office above the canteen the camp commandants and the spokeswoman for the local Serbian authorities said they had two and a half thousand of what they called "internees," who were being interrogated as possible Muslim fighters.

SPOKESWOMAN: No, this is not a camp. This is a center, a target center, Omarska and Tanapolia, both centers, not camps.

MR. WILLIAMS: The prisoners were being brought to the canteen from a large industrial building in the center of the mining complex. It too was under heavy guard and we asked to be allowed to look inside, but in spite of promises of openness from the Serb Bosnian leader, Dr. Karadzic, we were told we could see no more.

MR. WILLIAMS: Why are you not fulfilling Dr. Karadzic's promise to us?

SPOKESWOMAN: He promised us something else and said, you can do this and this and that, and not that.

MR. WILLIAMS: Our armed escort made it clear our visit was over. We are now being asked to leave this camp, having seen nothing more than the canteen. We have been told that Dr. Karadzic's promise, while good to us, does not carry any weight here. As we were moved on, soldiers told us the army did not control the camp, which they said was run by the local authorities and militia. We had asked to be taken to a second camp at Tanapolia in the same area to which several hundred prisoners from Omarska had that day been transferred and which has also been at the center of allegations of atrocities. Conditions at this camp were appalling. In 100 degree heat hundreds of men were forced to eat and sleep outside in the field behind barbed wire. Their meager rations consist of a small hunk of bread and a bowl of soup every day. Here too they said they had been rounded up, whole villages emptied of their men, and they were afraid.

MR. WILLIAMS: Can you tell me anything about the conditions in which you have been kept here, or is it difficult?

PRISONER: I am not sure that I'm allowed about that. You know, I -- can you understand me?

MR. WILLIAMS: Have people here been beaten?

PRISONER: Here? No. Here, no. Not here.

MR. WILLIAMS: What places?

PRISONER: I rather wouldn't talk about that.

MR. WILLIAMS: Can you tell us anything about the conditions that you have been kept in and the treatment of the people you were with?

2ND PRISONER: Well, it was hard time.

MR. WILLIAMS: We heard stories of people being beaten and people disappearing. Was that -- did that happen?

2ND PRISONER: Well, I can't say much about that.

3RD PRISONER: We just came here.

MR. WILLIAMS: From another camp?

3RD PRISONER: From another camp, and we don't know what's the condition here. We accept a little bit more better like --

MR. WILLIAMS: What was it like before?

3RD PRISONER: It was terrible.

MR. WILLIAMS: One of the prisoners asked us to check on him in several days time to see that he hadn't been punished for speaking to us. And away from the camera, there were allegations of routine beatings and executions. Several prisoners told us of retaliatory killings, one instance in which they claimed 150 of their fellow prisoners have been killed following the death of 10 Serbian soldiers in a Muslim village. We were told people had been beaten to death and we were asked to smuggle a film out of the camp. The pictures show severe injuries, apparently as a result of beatings. In the makeshift medical center, there were cases of scabies, malnutrition, and diarrhea. Local doctors said they were chronically short of medicine and drugs. And among them was a Muslim doctor. We asked him whether there had been any cases of beatings.

MUSLIM DOCTOR: [mumbling and nodding of head] Yes.

SPOKESPERSON: Many?

MUSLIM DOCTOR: [nodding].

MR. WILLIAMS: On one side of the camp were refugees who were here simply because they have nowhere else to go, their homes having been destroyed. They have been told they can go as soon as they have a guarantee of a home outside Serb-controlled Bosnia. In Banyaluka, prisoners' wives have been queuing for days for news of their men and to register as refugees, because they too have nowhere to go. On the roads to Banyaluka, Muslim villages lie empty and deserted, homes destroyed. If there is eventually freedom for the men in the detention centers, it's unlikely to be in Serb- controlled Bosnia.

MR. MacNeil: Early this afternoon, the President, who's on a campaign swing, appeared before reporters at an air field in Colorado Springs.

PRESIDENT BUSH: To truly end the humanitarian nightmare, we must stop ethnic cleansing and open any and all detention camps to international inspection. We will not rest until the international community has gained access to any and all detention camps. Second, we must support the legitimate governments of Slovenia, Croatia, and Bosnia-Herzegovina. And to this end, I have decided that the United States will move now to full diplomatic relations with those governments. And I'll shortly submit to the Senate my nomination for ambassadors to these posts. Third, we must continue to isolate Serbia economically and politically until all the United Nations Security Council resolutions are fully implemented. We must continue to tighten economic sanctions on Serbia so that all understand that there is a real price to be paid for the Serbian government's continued aggression.

REPORTER: How credible are the reports of death camps?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, what I have done is tasked our intelligence community to use every asset available to see if we can confirm them. We know that there is horror in these detention camps. I cannot confirm on hard evidence the -- some of the charges that have been made. It is absolutely essential whatever's going on there that there be open inspection and that humane treatment of the people in these concentration camps be guaranteed. But in all honesty, I can't confirm to you some of the -- some of the claims that there is, indeed, a genocidal process going on there.

REPORTER: Sir, when you see the vivid footage from Bosnia of innocent civilians being bombed and mortared and shelled from the hills, does it not make you want to send in U.S. air power to take out those emplacements?

PRESIDENT BUSH: It makes me want to do whatever we have to do to stop the killing. I would only suggest that this is a very complicated military question, very, very complicated indeed. And I would, you know, we have probably been -- well, I know we have the best intelligence in the world on this and it is not an easy military problem even for our fantastic air force.

MR. MacNeil: For more on the story, we turn to the U.S. Senate, where the Foreign Relations Committee adopted a resolution urging stronger action in Yugoslavia. Sen. Joseph Lieberman, a Democrat of Connecticut, was one of the resolution's sponsors. Sen. Mitch McConnell, a Kentucky Republican, voted against the resolution in committee. Gentlemen, thank you for joining us. Sen. Lieberman, are you pleased with the president's statement? Will it achieve what he wants? Has he gone far enough?

SEN. LIEBERMAN: The statement is late, but it is not too late, and so in that sense I welcome it. It seems to me that both the United States and the rest of the civilized world have tried for the last year to not get involved in Yugoslavia, even though as we look back over the last year, we see a steady pattern of aggression by the Serbians, first into Croatia, now into Bosnia. I wouldn't be surprised if they are not stopped, if they next go into Kosova or Macedonia. And I think there's an understanding now that something has to be done to stop them. On top of all that, we now have this horrifying outrageous evidence of not just ethnic cleansing but really the beginning of a genocidal campaign against the Muslims and the Croatians in Bosnia, and, therefore, I think all of us want to react. And in that sense, I appreciate the President's commitment today to go to the United Nations to ask for authority to use force. It's clear if you look back over this last year, with all the resolutions that have been passed, and special missions by Lord Carrington and Sec. Vance the Serbians have basically done what they have wanted to do when they wanted to do it, and how they wanted to do it. And I think they're only going to stop if they're looking down the barrel of a gun or up at an allied aircraft about to drop bombs on them.

MR. MacNeil: Sen. McConnell, has the President gone further than you wanted to go?

SEN. McCONNELL: No. I think the President's handled this essentially correctly, Robin. I think we can stipulate that there have been horrible atrocities in this area. Congresswoman Helen Bentley, for example, who's a Serbian American, has been distributing pictures of atrocities committed allegedly by Croatians against Serbs. I think we can stipulate that very horrible things have happened there not only recently, butover the last few centuries. I think the question is how best to handle this situation. As a member of the Foreign Relations Committee this morning, I argued against the resolution that was reported out on a 12 to 4 vote essentially because with one exception, it endorsed the way the President's handled this. That part would have been fine with me. The one exception was they had wanted us to authorize the United States to go in and disarm both sides. Gen. MacKenzie, the U.N. General that I think you're familiar with and your viewers have seen on this program --

MR. MacNeil: He was on this program night before last.

SEN. McCONNELL: Yes -- has said essentially that the only way you can disarm the population is to go in with ground forces. I just don't think that's appropriate to interject American ground forces into this conflict. And I think if we want to pass a resolution, why not pass a resolution commending the President the way he's handling this. It seems to me he's handling it just right.

MR. MacNeil: Sen. Lieberman, I gather you are prepared, if necessary, to see American ground forces go in.

SEN. LIEBERMAN: I hope not, and I don't think any of us who are sponsoring the resolution want that to happen. But I think we've all got to be honest even in the expression of support that the President has given today for the use of military force to protect humanitarian relief going into Bosnia, it may be necessary to go along with those convoys. Not everything is coming in by air in Sarajevo. I think all of us hope that the limited use of force against the Serbs by allied nations will bring them to their senses. We're not entering a war here that we want to win. We're not after a conquest. We're trying to inflict some pain really on the Serbian forces as a way to say to them that they can't act with this wanton disregard for human rights and human life and bring them to the peace table where hopefully a resolution can be achieved.

SEN. McCONNELL: Robin, if I may.

MR. MacNeil: Sure.

SEN. McCONNELL: Just quickly, there are two ways you could use ground forces there. One is to support relief efforts. The President's already indicated he's in favor of that. He's asked the Secretary of State to go to the U.N. to seek authority to do that. The other is to use ground forces in a way that clearly would have to be used based on the Foreign Relations Committee resolution, which is to go in and effectively disarm the population. There is simply no easy way to do that. So the President supports and frankly I support the use of ground troops, if necessary, simply to convoy rescue missions, but not to go in and try to disarm folks who have been shooting at each other for centuries.

MR. MacNeil: So you would -- let's just get it clear -- you and you understand the President to be ready to use U.S. forces, air or ground, if necessary, to escort relief supplies either by air or on the ground.

SEN. McCONNELL: For the very narrow mission of providing relief in the area, not for the broader mission --

MR. MacNeil: Okay.

SEN. McCONNELL: -- envisioned by the Foreign Relations Committee of simply trying to disarm this population.

MR. MacNeil: And Sen. Lieberman, your resolution and you are in favor of going one step further, and that is stopping the killing of civilians in places like Sarajevo by Serbian gunfire?

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Let me explain that, because the resolution I was about to introduce last night actually did not have that term in it, but I think I understand what the Foreign Relations Committee intended to do. They are intending to put the force or the moral assuasion of the U.S. Senate behind an attempt by the United Nations to use -- to have the right to use force to enforce some previous U.N. resolutions. And there's one that the U.N. has adopted that says in the case of a cease-fire, U.N. forces should try to get hold of all the heavy guns that are now being used to shell civilians. So it's in that limited way that this is being discussed. But let me say again that the United States will retain the authority to decide what to do and when to do it militarily. I think there's a main point to this resolution, and it is to say to the Serbian leader, Milosevic, we've had enough, we're outraged by what you're doing, and we're prepared to use force against you. I think it's always wise for politicians to leave it to generals as to when and where and how the force should be applied.

SEN. McCONNELL: Robin, if I may please.

MR. MacNeil: Sure.

SEN. McCONNELL: Thirty divisions of Nazis couldn't disarm this population in World War II. Gen. MacKenzie has said -- may have said on your show -- I heard him say on another show that use of ground troops inside Yugoslavia to disarm the population would be the wrong thing to do. And that is the crux of the problem I have with the Senate Foreign Relations Committee resolution.

MR. MacNeil: Well, how do you feel, gentlemen, about the statement that Margaret Thatcher made today? It was printed in the New York Times, and she said very bluntly that all this discussion of how complicated it is militarily and the history of difficulties in the past is just an excuse by U.S. and British leadership -- she included her own country -- and she said, there should be an immediate ultimatum to Serbia, led by the United States, to stop supporting the Serbs in Bosnia, recognize Bosnia's independence, give up territorial claims, with a date for compliance and the threat of force to back it up -- do you go as far as she would go, Sen. Lieberman?

SEN. LIEBERMAN: I would. Mrs. Thatcher is absolutely right. And, remember, we have a lot of latitude, or the military authorities do, in how we carry out and apply force here. There is first obviously the possibility of air attacks on Serbian artillery positions in the hills around some of the cities they're surrounding. Secondly, as Mrs. Thatcher suggested, allied aircraft could hit bridges, could hit supply depots and Serbian, if necessary, but actually bomb parts of Belgrade, or other --

MR. MacNeil: I think she mentioned bridges over the key rivers.

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Bridges, and I'd say the preferred targets might be military bases in Serbia, all of this not right away, but as a way to escalate it and squeeze the Serbians so they will come to their senses and stop this aggression. The alternative is to stand by the side of the road impotently, wringing our hands, passing resolutions, while we're watching people being starved and beaten and killed.

MR. MacNeil: How do you feel about Mrs. Thatcher's call for an ultimatum, Sen. McConnell?

SEN. McCONNELL: Well, clearly, we haven't been sitting around doing nothing. I won't read the whole list of things we've been doing -- and the President did some more things today. But if you took the Margaret Thatcher position to its logical conclusion, then we ought to be intervening in Somalia, where there's a difficult ethnic dispute going on there. Maybe we ought to referee the dispute between the Armenians and the Azerbaijanis. I mean, there is no end to it if we think it is our responsibility to go in and referee every one of these disputes, particularly is it inappropriate for the United States to do anything unilaterally? So I think the President's handling this correctly, and I must say -- and this is not directed at my good friend, Joe, but for Gov. Clinton's efforts to get to the right President Bush in order to shed the ghost of George McGovern on foreign policy, we wouldn't be doing this. I mean, we would be passing resolutions commending the President for the way he's handled this.

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Well, I'm glad to hear that Gov. Clinton has already had that effect on our foreign policy. The fact is that Gov. Clinton is not George McGovern. He really is a new generation of Democratic leadership for this country, including I think a willingness to use force when necessary to protect the American principles and interests. I saw --

MR. MacNeil: Sen. McConnell, I wanted to come back to you on another point Margaret Thatcher made, which was a new one to me. And that is that if the West, as she passes by on the other side in this, the danger is growing Muslim concern that nothing is being done to protect this Muslim population and, in fact, today Iran's deputy foreign minister called for a meeting of the Islamic conference to prepare Muslim military assistance to Bosnia. Do you see a danger of a radical Muslim presence being created in the center of Europe, or in the Balkans if no help is given by the West to the Bosnians?

SEN. McCONNELL: Well, I think that's a very good observation, if nothing were being done. Quite a lot has been done, both before today by the European Community, today by the President, and before today by the President, and there are going to be additional efforts. If absolutely nothing were being done, that would a valid point. But the principle that the prime minister is seeking to establish there, it seems to me, is that we ought to be intervening in all of these ethnic disputes, wherever they may occur throughout the world. And I think that should be done very, very cautiously, and it's much too early to be passing resolutions here in the United States Senate that would send one American soldier into this ages old ethnic dispute. Let's continue to work through the United Nations and the European Community and try to get the problem solved that way, rather than passing resolutions here in the Senate that indicate we're opening the door to the use of American ground troops in that area.

MR. MacNeil: Do you see a certain irony, Sen. McConnell, in the fact that you Republicans are less cautious about -- more cautious about supporting Margaret Thatcher than your Democratic colleagues are in a situation like this?

SEN. McCONNELL: It is an interesting set of bed fellows on this issue. My views are that this particular dispute looks a lot more like Lebanon and Vietnam than it does like Iraq and Kuwait.

MR. MacNeil: What's your observation on that, Sen. Lieberman, on who's bed fellows in this politically?

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Well, I agree there are some ironic bed fellows. Let me say that we work very hard to make the resolution of sponsored bipartisan. In fact, Sen. Dole, the Republican Leader, and Sen Mitchell, are both on it. And it seems to me that in this one we really should not be Republicans or Democrats. We are all Americans. We are all citizens of the world and we have a moral obligation, let alone a strategic interest, in stopping this kind of brutality and aggression. I think history is knocking again in Europe, and unless we stop conflict early, we're going to be drawn into a much --

MR. MacNeil: Right.

SEN. LIEBERMAN: -- costlier battle later on.

MR. MacNeil: Well, gentlemen, thank you both. We have to leave it there. Jim.

MR. LEHRER: Still to come on the NewsHour tonight, Bush and Clinton stump speeches and the salmon shortage in the Pacific Northwest. FOCUS - HEAD TO HEAD

MR. LEHRER: Now we continue a regular feature of our political coverage, the campaign stump speech. Again, we have one each from President Bush and Gov. Clinton. Clinton is first tonight. It is the speech he delivered last night in Burlington, Iowa, as he and his running mate, Al Gore, went up the Mississippi River on their second campaign bus tour.

BILL CLINTON: [last night] My opponent in this election is quoted in USA Today as saying today that the recession is over, the American people just don't know it yet. That's what they've been telling you all along: Things are great; you're just too dumb to see it. [laughter in audience] Now, let me tell you something. Most Americans in this country and most people in this crowd tonight are working harder for lower wages than they were making 10 years ago, is that right? [cheers and applause] I see people struggle to make a living and hold their farms together and hold their families together tied to the land. I've seen people go to work and work their fingers to the bone and work two and three jobs and still lose the farm, lose the job, lose the small business, because we have persisted, alone and among the advanced countries, in hanging onto this fool idea that they call "trickle down economics" in Washington. All the other countries we're competing with, the countries we grow crops against, the countries we make products against, the countries we compete for market against, they all know that what really counts is whether your people are well educated and trained, whether you invest in infrastructure like this bridge and transportation and communications, and environmental technology, and whether business and labor and education and government are all on the same side, working hard to make sure everybody can live up to the fullest of their capacity. Only America is still out there with this fool idea of trickle down economics that says the government has no role in any of this, all you really need to do is cut taxes on the wealthiest Americans and get out of the way and they'll invest the money and everything will be wonderful. Well, we tried it their way for 12 years and it's not wonderful! Twelve years ago, we had the highest wages in the world and the biggest surplus in the world, and now we're the world's biggest debtor and we're thirteenth in wages! But we are first in the percentage of adults we've got behind bars! Their deal doesn't work. Let us try our "put people first" approach. Let's invest in America and put the American people back to work! [applause] We got some simple ideas that I think make a lot of sense. Yes, we have to cut defense spending, but let's don't waste it on health care cost explosion or pour it in the dark hole of the budget. Let's spend every dollar we cut defense by making jobs in America, more bridges, more environmental cleanup, more technology for the 21st century. In our plan, we create a million new jobs a year for four years, investing in America. Let's say to people with money, we want to give you tax incentives too, but only if you will take the tax incentives to create new jobs, new products, new services in America, no more breaks for moving our jobs overseas, and for short-term deals! [applause] Let's rebuild America! [applause] There's not a state in America, not a state in America that has valued education more than the state of Iowa has, where people have sacrificed at the grassroots level, where farmers have played property taxes to educate their kids with greater effort than Iowa, not a state in America, and you know, you know when we're not competing all over this country, all of us pay. When these kids drop out of schools, when these inner city schools don't perform, when kids don't have access to the science and math and technology courses they need, when we don't provide apprenticeship programs to the people who don't go to college so they can get good jobs and not dead end jobs, and when we don't make college education available to all Americans, including the broad middle class, you know we're in trouble in America! In Iowa, you know that! [applause] Give us a chance! As we've been driving up this river today, I don't know how many people have come up to me and said, I'm a farmer and I can't afford my health insurance. You're spending 30 percent more than any nation on the face of the earth for health care and getting less for it because your country has the worst organized system of financing and delivering health care, great doctors, great nurses, great hospitals, lousy finance, lousy organization. We are spending $100 billion a year going to insurance companies and bureaucrats and government regulation and paper pushers and all over the health care system in America because we stubbornly refuse to take on those vested interests and control costs and provide a basic system of affordable health care for all. Give us a chance! We can do it! Give us a chance! [applause] Give us a chance to say that the people work hard and play by the rules ought to be rewarded! The other party's always railing against welfare, but they don't want to do anything about it. Give us a chance. We'll invest in education and training and child care and medical coverage for people on welfare and then require them to go to work and find something for them to do if they can't! Give us a chance! [applause] Give us a chance! [applause] Give us a chance to change the way government operates. The other crowd's been running against big government for a generation and they've been running big government for a generation! If you're a farmer, you tell me with a straight face that the Agriculture Department's less bureaucratic than it was when Jimmy Carter was president, less bureaucratic than it was when John Kennedy was president. Give me a break! Give us a chance! Give us a chance to give you a secretary for agriculture, not a Department of Agriculture, and a system that works for the family farmers, and fights for markets overseas. Give us a chance. [applause] Ladies and gentlemen, what I want you to do tonight when you go home and the crowds are gone and the cheering stops is to think about your country. Thank God you're American, with all of our problems. It's still the greatest country on earth. [applause] And resolve -- resolve that you are going to have the courage to change America again. We have lasted for 200 years because every time we've had to suck it up and get the courage to change we have done it. This is not the most difficult time we've ever had, but it is a very difficult time. We have to make some decisions about changing. If we don't do it, we could raise the first generation of Americans to do worse than their parents. We owe it to our children and to our grandchildren to secure the future and the blessings of liberty. The war -- the Cold War is over and we won. Let's don't lose the peace. Let's seize the opportunity it gives us to rebuild America and bring this country back! [applause] In the next 90 days, in the next 90 days you'll hear a lot of hot air from the other side. They'll tell you Al Gore and I have all these crazy ideas and you can't trust us, how dangerous it would be. They will tell you how much worse things could be. Well, for a lot of you, they couldn't get much worse! Now, that crowd in Washington, they think they own the White House. They think they got a right to be in those limousines. They think they couldn't live if they didn't have it, but let me tell you, they'll get along just fine when we give an administration back to the American people that at least gives them a fair shake out here in the private sector. You give us a chance to change the country! Don't lose your courage in the next 90 days! Don't forget what you're fighting for! Stand up for your kids! Stand up for the future! Stand up for change and help Al Gore and Bill Clinton bring this country back! Thank you and God bless you all! Thank you.

MR. LEHRER: Now, President Bush. This morning in Colorado Springs, he addressed the annual meeting of the American Legislative Exchange Council, an organization of conservative state legislators.

PRESIDENT BUSH: As I listen to the American people, I get a sense of something you might pick up from your own constituents. People are sick of politics. I think they think this election year has gone on a little too long. It used to start on Labor Day. Labor Day isn't even at hand yet. They're tired of the charges and the counter charges and they want ideas and they want action and they want to trust their leaders to turn the first into the second. And that's what I want to talk about this morning, ideas, action, and trust. Although I don't want to get too partisan, I'm going to draw a few comparisons. Grant me a favor though and I'll save the "C" word for my convention in Houston. And then I'll just stick with the all purpose title for today of my opponent, but let me guarantee you one thing. When our convention is over, I am tired of being slugged by these people and I will fight back and I am going to win this election! [applause] And I will fight tough but I will fight fair, which reminds me, remember the old story of the fierce gladiator. He killed every lion that they could throw up against him, every lion he faced. So one day the centurions went out, went to Carthage, and found the meanest lion in the world, and they buried the gladiator in the arena there in Rome, right up so just his head was sticking out, filled him with sand. The lion was released, charged him, making a deadly pass at the gladiator's head, and as he did, the gladiator reached up and took a very ferocious bite in a very sensitive place in the lion's anatomy. And the lion howled in pain and ran for the exit, fled from the arena. And the lead centurion ran out, attacked the gladiator screaming, "Fight fair, damn it, fight fair!" [laughter in audience] Now, every time -- every time -- [applause] -- every time I tip toe into the water with this guy, they start yelling, negative campaigning. I am going to fight back and I will define his record as he's ill defined mine and I will fight on the only battleground that really counts, and that is the battleground of ideas. And ideas matter. [applause] On many of the major issues of this campaign my opponent and I have entirely different ideas - - on education, on health care, on life, on defense, on prayer in school, for example. We are separated by a gulf as wide as the Grand Canyon. But on some issues, especially economic issues, I'm afraid we don't yet sound all that different. Let me give you some examples. [applause] I firmly believe we must get a handle on this budget deficit before it strangles our future and -- [applause] -- my opponent supposedly agrees with me, and he says in his speeches that government takes too much of your money and gives you too little in return, and what do we do about it? Well, I have fought for a freeze on domestic discretionary spending, and I have fought for a cap -- and this is the only way we're going to get the deficit down -- a cap on mandatory federal spending with specific proposals for savings, and a responsible -- and I emphasize that word -- a responsible reduction in defense spending consistent with our mission as the leader of the world and consistent with my oath to be responsible for the national security. I am not going to cut into the muscle of our defense and go back to a hollow army! So let's be clear on that. [applause] My opponent has taken a very different, a very different approach. He has proposed over $200 billion of new spending and at least $150 billion in new taxes. And when it comes to any concern about the federal budget deficit, his action sounds like John McLaughlin's signoff every week, "Bye-bye." [laughter and applause in audience] Look at our most pressing economic challenge -- how to create more jobs now. And I've proposed a package that includes incentives for investment to create jobs, that credit for the first-time home buyer, so that that home buyer can participate in the American dream, tax savings through juggling around the IRAs for families that are trying in these tough times to save. And my opponent copies you and me when he says that an expanding economy is the best policy of all, but first he proposes the largest tax increase in American history, larger than what Mike Dukakis and Walter Mondale propose together, and then he proposes at least a 7 percent payroll tax to finance a new government-run health care scheme. And then his friends in the congressional leadership took my growth package and added a tax increase to it, and I took care of that with the veto pen. And as your able chairman said, that's the first time a president has done that. [applause] And so you have every right to say what's going on here, what's happening, what's really happening? As I peel through the details of our economic plans, I can't help but think of the words of another George -- I'm not used to quoting him -- George McGovern. He called the other ticket "a Trojan horse." And he said, "They are really" - - here's the quote -- exact quote -- "They are really much more liberal than they appear and they'll show it after they are elected." Well, I don't know if I ever have told you this before, but George McGovern is a very smart man. He is very intelligent. But this is what worries me, as I compare the details of what wA have to offer, the details, and I begin to wonder, is all this talk of what they call a new covenant simply a coverup for some very old and tired ideas? The other side talks about changing the economy with new spending and taxes, but when they talk about change, that's all you're going to have left in your pockets when these guys get through with you. [applause] And in the next four months and for the next four years I will accelerate our fight for these tax incentives and lowering the taxes, for budgetary discipline, for making the tough calls on runaway spending, and I will put my case in words, but I will back my words with action, and I will show the American people we must not return to a failed philosophy for America. No matter how neatly packaged it is today, it is time to continue moving forward, forward on a positive, conservative vision for our great nation. And may God bless the greatest, freest, fairest country on the face of the earth, the United States of America. Thank you all very, very much. FINALLY - AGAINST THE STREAM

MR. MacNeil: Finally tonight, this year's salmon shortage in the Pacific Northwest. It's meant tough times for the fishermen and others whose livelihoods depend on the sport and the catch. Greg Hirakawa of public station KCTS in Seattle has our report.

FISHERMAN: It's not the biggest one, but that's the right size for eatin'.

MR. HIRAKAWA: Kevin Vasereno is one of a growing number of boat owners who once thrived in these waters and who are now barely staying afloat. On any summer day, Vasereno's boat used to be packed with anglers fishing for Pacific Northwest salmon. Today he and his customers are trolling for Pacific ling cod. Cod fishing has never been popular in these waters.

MARK VASERENO, Charter Boat Owner: There is no substitute at this point for salmon. It's prettier. And it is --

MR. HIRAKAWA: The number of salmon has been dropping in the Northwest, forcing the region's fishing council to cut the amount of salmon charter and commercial fishing boats are allowed to catch. At one point this year, the numbers were so low the Council of Federal & State Fishing Regulators had considered closing the entire West Coast to salmon fishing. While government regulators eventually rejected the ban, the salmon catch this season will be the lowest on record. For Vasereno and other charter boat owners, fewer salmon has meant fewer customers. Fifteen years ago in the coastal town of Westport, Washington, there were over 200 charter boats in a local fishing fleet. Now, there are less than 50. Mark Cedergreen heads the Westport Charter Association.

MARK CEDERGREEN, Charter Operator: It's tough. You know, you get right down to the bottom line. There's really not any profit in it. There are about, oh, we're at a level now in Westport of about 20 percent of what we once were with regard to boats and facilities here, so a lot of people have gone out of business.

MR. HIRAKAWA: What has happened in Westport is being repeated along the entire Northwest coast line. Harbors are filled with charter and commercial fishing fleets, but a lot of boats are for sale. For the seafaring people in the self-proclaimed salmon capital of the world, economic survival has meant making changes where they can.

KEVIN VASERENO: When the weather's bad, you can usually squeeze a whale watch trip in. The number of whales we've had have been tremendous. But, again, it's a supplement, and we don't make the kind of money on a whale watch trip that it takes to keep an operation like this running.

MR. HIRAKAWA: Increasing the number of salmon in these waters will not be easy. Salmon are caught mainly on the high seas, but they are born in inland waterways. Fish biologists say the streams have been damaged by decades of logging and development. Estuaries that allow young ocean bound salmon to adjust biologically from fresh water to salt water have been choked by roadways. Free flowing rivers have been blocked by dams for more than half a century. Until now, scientists believed fish killed by dams and other development could be replaced by fish raised in hatcheries. Millions of salmon are released from hatcheries around the regioneach year, yet, the salmon population continues to drop. Animal psychologist Terry Devietti at Central Washington University thinks he knows why. When it comes to survival, hatchery fish are Darwinian failures.

TERRY DEVIETTI, Animal Psychologist: We've got a chiller and pump so we can maintain a flow in the system.

MR. HIRAKAWA: In an eight-foot aquarium designed to stimulate a natural running stream Devietti is comparing differences in survival instincts of fish raised in the wild with those raised in hatcheries. After passing a simulated predator overhead, researchers observed wild fish immediately swam for cover and remained still on the bottom of the tank. In the same experiment, hatchery fish were slower to respond, with one fish not taking cover at all. Devietti also observed wild fish stayed near the bottom of the tank. Hatchery fish stayed near the top. Devietti concludes the behavior of hatchery fish makes them easy prey for hungry birds.

TERRY DEVIETTI: If you're quiet, if you're close to cover, you have background that you are against, and you're not moving, you're not easily seen. And if you're not easily seen, you're not easily eaten.

MR. HIRAKAWA: During our visit, the small wild fish remained separated and motionless on the bottom of the tank. Fish raised in hatcheries continued to move and stayed together, making them a bigger and easier target. Devietti's research indicates hatchery practices may have to change if survival rates are to increase. The changes might include redesigning hatcheries to look more like wild waterways or training hatchery fish to swim lower in the water.

TERRY DEVIETTI: Maybe we could just beat on the water, you know, teach them to stay low. If animals don't have particular experiences at certain point in development, they are aberrant in their behavior as adults, and I don't see why the fish would be any different.

MR. HIRAKAWA: Devietti and other scientists agree there is no quick answer to bringing back the salmon, and increasing the number of wild fish may be an expensive proposition. Congress is already considering tearing down two small dams to improve the salmon population on one small river. Cost to taxpayers: About $70 million. This summer, along the region's major rivers, dam operators will be reducing water normally held back to generate hydroelectricity. Increasing the water flow should help flush young salmon heading down stream into spillways and bypass channels, preventing them from getting crushed in powerful hydroelectric turbines. But releasing more water for fish will mean less water to generate power. The plan -- backed by some environmental groups -- will raise local power rates by 4 to 8 percent. Experts are not certain how effective all of this will be in increasing the number of salmon. James Anderson is a fisheries professor at the University of Washington.

JAMES ANDERSON, Fisheries Professor: We can try to limit the harvest. We can try to improve hatchery practices. We can try to put more water down the river, or to improve the velocity of the water that is going, and the trouble is that we're not sure that some of these measures are even going to work very well.

MR. HIRAKAWA: Scientists and government fishing regulators agree closing the West Coast to salmon fishing would have devastated the fishing industry without significantly increasing the number of salmon returning to spawn. But unless the number of wild fish starts rising, the salmon fishing ban remains an ominous possibility. Gene Didonato is the assistant director for the Washington Department of Fishery.

GENE DIDONATO, Washington Department of Fisheries: I wouldn't write it off as an option that would not appear again, because it was not used this year. I think that it's still something that we may have to look at as options in the future.

MR. HIRAKAWA: Ironically, the shortage of Northwest salmon will have no effect on the price of salmon at the market. Most of the salmon is caught at Alaska or raised in fish farms in foreign countries. The availability of Alaskan salmon is of little comfort to the men and women of Westport who make their living taking people out to fish. Charter operators worry with salmon abundant elsewhere, little may be done to help the fish in the Pacific Northwest.

MARK CEDERGREEN: I think it's possible to totally destroy the salmon resource by overdevelopment, by over -- by poor logging practice, by over harvest in foreign fisheries and so on. There are fisheries all over the world and on the East Coast and Europe that are gone forever, that are extinct. And so it's definitely possibly that we could wipe out natural spawning salmon in the Northwest. I don't think we want to do that.

MR. HIRAKAWA: Out on the water, Kevin Vasereno tries to make the best of a bad situation. Today, his customers brought up more than 30 ling cod. That catch is enough to keep anglers smiling and enough to help the skipper stay in business while he hopes for better days ahead. RECAP

MR. LEHRER: Again, the major stories of this Thursday, reporters were allowed inside Serbian-run prison camps in Bosnia. They found malnourished and frightened prisoners. President Bush called for the U.N. Security Council to authorize all necessary means, including military force, to make sure relief supplies get to Bosnia. And he granted full diplomatic recognition to the former Yugoslav republics of Bosnia, Croatia, and Slovenia. And this evening, the House of Representatives authorized $12 billion in U.S. aid for the countries of the former Soviet Union. Good night, Robin.

MR. MacNeil: Good night, Jim. That's the NewsHour tonight. We'll be back tomorrow night with two top officials in the Bush and Clinton campaigns, plus political insights from David Gergen and Wendy Sherman. I'm Robert MacNeil. Good night.