The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer; November 27, 2007

... I'm Jim Lehrer. Today's news, the Annapolis Summit, Israeli Prime Minister Almert, murder and Philadelphia, and Democrat Joe Biden, all tonight on the news hour. Is it possible that this thing is gone? .

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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . civic life, the power to help you succeed. Chevron, the new AT&T, the Atlantic Philanthropies, and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. Israel and the Palestinians agreed today to restart peace talks.

That word came at the summit hosted by the U.S. in Annapolis, Maryland. Israeli Prime Minister Almert and Palestinian President Abbas laid out a timetable for negotiations, leading to the creation of a Palestinian state. The details were officially announced by President Bush. We agree to immediately launch good faith by lateral negotiations in order to conclude a peace treaty resolving all outstanding issues including all core issues without exception as specified in previous agreements. We agree to engage in vigorous ongoing and continuous negotiations and she'll make every effort to conclude an agreement before the end of 2008. Afterward, Abbas and Almert shook hands in a good faith gesture, Abbas pledged that war and terror belonged to the past. Almert said no subject would be avoided in the talks. We'll have more on this story right after the news summary. The summit in Annapolis sparked large protests in the Middle East.

Some 20,000 Israelis rallied last night against the talks. Today, Palestinian police, loyal to President Abbas, broke up demonstrations in the West Bank, killing one protester. But thousands marched peacefully in Gaza City where Hamas rules the group's leader insisted it will not lay down arms. Hamas won elections last year, but in June it ousted supporters of a boss by force and took sole control of Gaza. Two U.S. soldiers were killed in Iraq today. That made 35 American deaths so far in November. Separately, U.S. troops fatally shot at least five Iraqi civilians, including a child. The shootings took place at two checkpoints today in Baghdad. And yesterday in Beijing, U.S. officials said in both cases, vehicles ignored warning shots. Also today, a suicide bomber attacked a police building just north of Baghdad. Seven Iraqis were killed there.

Some 800 Iraqi refugees returned home from Syria today. They packed belongings and boarded a convoy of buses organized by the Iraqi government. It was part of a flow back into the country as violence has fallen from earlier levels. More than 2 million Iraqis fled to neighboring countries during the worst of the killing. French police struggled today to quell growing violence in the suburbs of Paris. At least 80 officers were injured last night. The police called the violence even worse than the riots of 2005. We have a report from Robert Moore of Independent Television News. The police described the scenes that erupted across these northern suburbs of Paris as urban guerrilla warfare. And overnight for a second consecutive evening, there were violent clashes. On one side, thousands of police were mobilized to try and suppress the rioting. On the other side, the alienated youngsters who accused the police of routine harassment and of involvement in the death of two teenagers on Sunday.

Dozens of vehicles were set ablaze and public buildings ranging from libraries to schools were fired on. Police say they were also fired on by rioters using hunting rifles and handguns. It all started when a motorbike with two teenagers collided with a police car, killing both youngsters. It was an accident according to police. But some locals say the police car rammed the young men and then failed to offer assistance. Whatever the truth, it has reignited tension and plunged President Sarkozy into an immediate law and order crisis. The intensity of the rioting here is clearly shocked the French government. This is just one of many police stations and government buildings burnt to the ground. And the ominous question is this, is all of this just the beginning? Certainly that's the anxiety.

We watched this evening as large numbers of police reinforcements arrived in Villa Label, the epicenter of the latest unrest. Earlier there was a march through the town to remember the two teenagers who died. Beneath the surface here is deep anger from an immigrant community that says it is both neglected and widely discriminated against. As darkness fell this evening the trouble started again, rioting also spread to the southern city of Toulouse. The President of the American Red Cross was forced to resign today. The organization said Mark Everson stepped down after board members learned he had a personal relationship with a woman employee. Everson is married and has two children. He took the Red Cross job last May. He was brought in to help the organization recover from its heavily criticized handling of Hurricane Katrina. The nation's mayors warned today a surge in home mortgage foreclosures will damage their cities. The U.S. Conference of Mayors had major metropolitan areas could lose billions of dollars. Inside it cutbacks in construction decreased property values and reduced consumer spending.

The report came as a key index by standard end pours showed home prices fell four and a half percent in the third quarter from a year ago. It was the sharpest drop since the index began 20 years ago. Wall Street got a break today despite concerns about the mortgage meltdown. Stocks rallied after the Persian Gulf state Abu Dhabi invested seven and a half billion dollars in city group. The largest U.S. bank. The markets were also held by a drop of three percent in the price of oil. The Dow Jones Industrial Average gained 215 points to close at 12,958. The Nasdaq rose more than 39 points to close well above 2580. Pro football defensive star Sean Taylor died early today after being shot Sunday night. The Washington Redskins safety was acting at home in Miami, apparently by an intruder. It came eight days after a break in there.

Today, police said the suspect and no motive. Sean Taylor was 24 years old. Vice President Cheney returned to work today, hours after his heartbeat was restored to a normal rhythm. He was sedated last night at a Washington hospital and doctors administered a small electrical shock to the heart. Cheney has a history of heart problems, including for heart attacks and a quadruple bypass surgery. That's it for the new summer tonight. Now, the Middle East Peace Summit. Israeli Prime Minister Almert, Murder and Philadelphia, and Democrat Joe Biden. Ray Suarez begins our coverage of today's Middle East Peace Conference. Even as President Bush announced the Israelis and Palestinians would immediately resume their long-stalled negotiations, he acknowledged that past the peace would be counted.

Today, Palestinians and Israelis each understand that helping the other to realize their aspirations is key to realizing their own aspirations. Both require an independent Democratic viable Palestinian state. Such a state will provide Palestinians with a chance to lead lives of freedom and purpose and dignity. Such a state will help provide the Israelis with something they have been seeking for generations to live in peace with their neighbors. Chiving this goal is not going to be easy. Very easy. It would have happened a long time ago. The last effort by an American president to bring about a resolution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict collapsed seven years ago at Camp David and was followed by an upsurge of violence in the region. Today, President Bush, with one year left in office, inserted himself into the peace process. Hosting Israeli Prime Minister Almert and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and leaders in diplomats for more than 40 other nations at the U.S. Naval Academy.

Our purpose here in Annapolis is not to conclude an agreement. Rather, it's the launch of negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinians. For the rest of us, our job is to encourage the parties in this effort and to give them the support they need to succeed. A lot of recent developments, some have suggested that now is not the right time to pursue peace. I disagree. I believe now is precisely the right time to begin these negotiations for a number of reasons. The president went on to say Abbas and Omert both understood why they need to move now. The United States is proud to host this meeting. And we reaffirmed the path to peace set out in the roadmap. Yet in the end, the outcome of the negotiations they launch here depends on the Israelis and Palestinians themselves.

America will do everything in our power to support their quest for peace. But we cannot achieve it for them. Palestinian President Abbas then offered some of his conditions for peace. I must defend, in all censorship and counter, and without wavering, the right of our people to see a new dawn without occupation, without settlement, without separation walls, without prisons, where thousands of prisoners are detained. Without assassinations, without siege, without barriers around villages and motors. Abbas then spoke directly to Israelis. I say to the citizens of Israel in this extraordinary day, you, our neighbors, on this small land. Neither us nor you are begging for peace from each other. It is a common interest for us and for you, the peace and freedom is a right to us. And as much as peace and security is a right for you and for us.

For his part, Israeli Prime Minister Omert addressed Arab leaders. Me shall tell us, anyone who wants to make peace with us. We say to them, from the bottom of our hearts, Alain with Alain, welcome. We cannot continue to stand by indefinitely and to watch you standing and watching from the sidelines, watching the peace train as it were going by. The time has come to end the boycott, the alienation, and the obliviousness towards the state of Israel. It does not help you, and it hurts us. The first Israeli Palestinian peace talks are planned for December 12, and are to continue every two weeks after that. This afternoon, when I will interview it, Israeli Prime Minister Omert, tomorrow she will talk with the Chief Palestinian negotiator, Sahebe Erakat.

She spoke with Omert at his Washington hotel. Mr. Prime Minister, welcome. You said today in Annapolis that there would have to be painful choices made in order to achieve peace. As you well know, this is all been said before. What is different now? Well, I think that the most fundamental difference is that there is a different type of relationships between the leadership of the Palestinians and Israelis. There is a greater trust that in itself is not sufficient, but it's a very good foundation upon which you can do meaningful negotiations. And we certainly hope to do that. It's precisely our goal. The President, President Bush said today that there would be tough choices ahead. I want to ask you about some of those tough choices. Are you willing as part of these negotiations or what comes out of negotiations to lift checkpoints and unblock roads? We are already doing it right now, so we need to wait for negotiations.

We want to improve the quality of life of the Palestinians. This is a temporary situation, of course, at the end of the day, the goal of these negotiations is to reach a two-state solution. That there will be a Palestinian state, viable, strong, democratic. We are all the necessary ingredients that will make life so much better for the Palestinians. So that's part of what we're trying to do. We already removed checkpoints and roadblocks, and we will continue to do it. Of course, all depending on whether the Palestinians will be capable of effectively fighting terror. Because if there will be terror, no matter what we do, nothing will change. If they will effectively fight terror as we hope they will, then everything will change. That's a big if. How do you come by your confidence that the Palestinians are willing to do what you would like to see? First of all, there is a different Palestinian leadership today, which is committed to fight terror.

They say they are making the necessary preparations now to move towards it. They started the new program supported by us to put on security in one of the major cities in the West Bank in Nablus. And hopefully, if this program will succeed, they will move into other cities and will take over the security needs and will do it effectively. So there are big issues. Indeed, no one guarantees that everything will go as we pray it will. They have to try and we have to try. They have to be ready and we are ready to make these kind of painful compromises and change positions in order to advance the peace process between the two of us. Let's talk about the peace process where it left off, which is at the roadmap, which is where you are picking up now. One of the responsibilities that Israel would have to agree to as part of his processes to freeze the construction of settlements. We have about 270,000 settlers now on the West Bank. How do you propose to do that?

Well, it's been already agreed. I think it was re-emphasized in the famous letter, the famous letter sent by President Bush to the former Prime Minister of Israel, Mr. Sharon, on the 14th of April 2004, that in the pattern of the agreement that one day will be reached between us and the Palestinians, the demographic changes will have to be considered. And that the population centers most likely will have to be taken into account, but we don't build new settlements in the territories. I think I made a clear statement in the government session last week about it and we are not going to confiscate any land in order to build settlements. And that's part of the negotiating agenda. We are going to seek with the Palestinians and discuss the necessary accommodations in order to allow them to have a Palestinian state. And for Israel to contribute to this.

When you talk about demographic changes, that comes to the question of Jerusalem. One third of Jerusalem, the Palestinians. How do you propose to divide Jerusalem as they would like to see you do? I admire the shortness of the questions, but this is one of the issues which I'm sure the Palestinians will raise in negotiations. And I think the time will come that we will address ourselves to these issues in the most sincere and the most open way. But I'm not going to negotiate with you today. Why not? I'd like to talk to you about what Palestinians call the right of return. Is there room for negotiation on that point? Again, no one in negotiations can limit the other side from raising issues. Of course, everyone knows that the whole idea is of a two-state solution, which means a Palestinian state for the Palestinian people. And the state of Israel, which is the homeland of the Jewish people. I mean, no one seriously can think that there will be two states. One Palestinian and one which the Palestinians will come and majority if all the Palestinians will be brought back into the state of Israel.

The idea is to have two nation-states separated, leaving alongside each other. The state of Israel will be Jewish. And of course, as it is, and the Palestinian state will be the natural place for all the refugees of the Palestinians to be resettled. One of the things you've referred to several times today is the new leadership, the trust. Or I don't know if trust is to be the word between you and the truth about it. How would you describe the relationship? Well, what we tried to do in the last few months was to just sit two of us in a small room, most cases in my study, in my home in Jerusalem, and just a two of us talk to each other. And we say to each other, no staff, no one, no takeers, nothing. Just two human beings, each holds an enormous responsibility for his people, speaking to each other without any barriers, without any restrictions, just spelling out what they have in the heart,

talking to each other, trying to build trust, rapport, understanding between the two. And I think that we have gone a long way. Of course, we all know that he represents the Palestinian people and I represent the state of Israel and Jewish people. And there are differences, but there is a basis for talk. There is a basis for understanding. And I believe that there is a basis for compromise. There are critics in Israel who feel that you're giving him too much, that this trust that you talk about is seating ground, which Israel cannot afford to see. But there are genuine fears in the state of Israel based on, and I say to them, in my speech, on the past experiences, we help his Palestinians. We made concessions in the past, and they didn't necessarily help. We pulled out from Gaza entirely, and they keep shooting in December OK, some tens of thousands of Israelis living in the South part of Israel.

There is risk taking here. There are uncertainties which we will have to do with. My conviction is that Israeli is strong enough to try carefully to move forward in spite of these risks. But of course, we will not compromise on the security of the people of Israel. No one can expect Israel to do it. I don't believe that any country in the world would have acted in the same kind of restraint as we do now, when we have these some rockets falling on the heads of civilians in the South part of Israel. And we restrain our reactions, but we will not compromise on the security of the people of Israel that are taking guarantee. No, there is always opposition. There are many people in Israel based on the experience of the past that are very afraid that we will not be led into all that we will not be seduced, or that we will not be carried away too much with unnecessary concessions that my job ties the security of the state of Israel.

I think that we are handling the situation with care, with responsibility. But we are looking forward and I am determined to do everything that I can in order to exhaust every possible opportunity to move forward with the Palestinians. The plan that was described today envisioned a one-year timetable. Can all of us get done in that time? I don't know. I say we will make every possible effort. I don't want to do anything. I don't want to waste time. I want to sit down and talk. Israel is not pushed by anyone. No one pushes us. No one is forcing us. We are the ones that initiated this process. We are the ones that convinced Abu Mazam Abu Abbas the President of the Palestinian Authority to meet regularly and to try and advance the situation. Not the United States.

The United States is very helpful. I am so grateful to President Bush for his inspiration and his support in for Secretary Rice for her relentless activities day and night in order to enhance it. But it's first and foremost because we wanted it. And we are willing to move forward. So we will try. If we can reach an agreement within a year, we will be very happy if it will take more time. It will take more time, but we will be trying seriously. President Bush, Mahmoud Abbas, and you all have domestic political challenges right now. Who doesn't? Well, I don't want to know what everybody does. Everybody does. Yes, sure. You have to complete this part of life. You have supporters, you have opponents, you have opposition, you have coalition. You have to be able to sort your way amongst all these different elements. My conviction is that when it comes down to these fundamental issues of historical proportions for the life of my country,

you have to look beyond the political difficulties and to look at the ultimate goal of what is really good for your country and what is really constructive for the relations that you want to have with your neighbors. And if you do that, you will find also the political solutions necessary in order to advance it. But realistically, do you have the leverage? This is a very difficult thing you are trying to undertake. Do you collectively have the political leverage to get it done? Well, if you ask some people that will tell you that they are utterly surprised, that we reached that point, that they didn't anticipate they will be able to do it. And I tell you now that the year from now, I'm sure that they will say, we didn't believe that they will move as they did, and that they will continue to move. I am an optimistic person. You can't be a prime minister of Israel if you are not an optimist.

You'll have to be. And I've always reminded of what once Ben Guillain said many years ago, the founding father of Israel, he said a rallies in the Middle East, he's someone who believes in miracles. So I am not that kind of rallies, but I am someone who is optimist, who is prepared to take risks, who is prepared to move forward, who is prepared to give credit to decent people on the other side, and to build up the foundations for what must be ultimately, to compromise between us and the Palestinians that will help create the two-state solution to nation-states. The Palestinian state, the dominant of the Palestinian people, and the state of Israel, the dominant of the Jewish people. Will this take miracles? I will take a lot of imagination, a lot of creativity, a lot of good will, a lot of courage. And I hope that all these together is what will ultimately make the outcome that we all want to. Prime Minister David Olmars, thank you very much for joining us.

Thank you. A reminder that tomorrow, Gwen will interview Palestinian official Saeed Erika. Now, a grassroots effort by men to reduce violence against men in a city with one of the highest murder rates in the country. Kwame Holman has our report. They lined up by the thousands on a bright Sunday morning in Philadelphia recently to answer an unusual call to join a new movement against violence that's earned their city, the nickname Killadelphian. The call was for 10,000 men and close to that many turned out more than 100 on motorcycles. They were young and middle-aged and mostly black, all volunteers to help stem the gun violence that's claimed more than 350 lives in this city, so far this year. Charles Dumas teaches at Temple University where the rally was held.

Why are you and all these men here? Because we haven't ever done the great idea of an effort to make the violence in our city, and I think there's hope to us to stop them. It's not a politician, it's a federal government, it's a black man, it's up to us to take that neighborhood back, and that's why we're here at the environment. Darren Kathy works as a printer. I mean, because I'm concerned, like a lot of the brothers about to crime in the city, but I want to make channels make a difference. The vast majority of shooting victims have been African-American in a city that is 44% black, and while the retiring police commissioner, Sylvester Johnson says local media have exaggerated the crime problem this year, he acknowledges the toll it's taken on hundreds of African-American families. The three hundred nineteen families have been devastated, so I would never sit here, so we only have three hundred nineteen. There's too many, but the fact is that before, and I've been very realistic, when the black guy carries on page nine, that is on page one. Philadelphia is not alone in facing the problem, murders in several U.S. cities, which fell during the 1990s were on the rise this year, including in Baltimore and Oakland, California.

And there's a perception that the killings often occur with little provocation. New York, New Jersey's homicide rate jumped 50% over the last four years. During the summer, the medium-sized city drew national attention, as residents mourned the deaths of three college students who were forced by assailants to line up on an elementary school playground than shot to death. In Philadelphia, past appeals to confront gun violence have been championed by city native Bill Cosby and women often have been in the forefront. We pray, God, for your divine guidance. At the ten thousand men rally last month, organizers called on black men to engage in intervening with young people. Local radio hosts, East Stephen Collins. We need you. This is our day. This is the day we asked you to come to call to action. No longer will drug dealers, pimps and hustlers push our sisters, our children, our seniors around.

We are here today to take it back. Organizers say over the long-term, bringing violence down in low-income black communities requires better schools, job opportunities, and economic development. More immediately, the city's mayor-elect Michael Nutter has a controversial plan for closing some streets in high-crime areas, setting curfews and allowing police to stop and frisk those suspected of caring and illegal weapons. What a great platform of great black leaders. But many of the men at the rally say law enforcement alone isn't enough, and their move to step up their presence in neighborhoods has the support of city leaders. Philadelphia's longtime mayor John Street, whose term ends in January, spoke at the rally. This is the day when we are going to do something different in this city. Every one of us is going to make a personal commitment today that my neighborhood, my block, my recreation center, my community, my son, my daughter, my children are going to be in. I'm going to do the work to make this a better community.

In the days leading up to this rally, organizers said contingents of the 10,000 men would deploy to the sidewalks in high-crime areas accompanied by Philadelphia police officers. But concerns such patrols could spark clashes with young people, let organizers to emphasize getting the men to bolster the ranks of established community groups, police commissioner Johnson. The commission notes that this year has been an especially deadly one for his officers, including Chuck Cassidy, a 25-year veteran of the force, who was shot and killed last month. He walked in on an armed robbery that was captured on this surveillance video. We thank you, Lord, that he was going to make that ultimate sacrifice. Cassidy was remembered with an interfaith service and was the third Philadelphia officer shot in four days during October, and the fifth officer killed in the line of duty this year.

My brother-in-law is a police officer. I have friends who are police officers as terrible. They don't respect life anymore. Philadelphia music mogul Kenny Gamble agrees and has pushed for a stronger community response, a producer of socially conscious mega hits during the 1980s. He's now one of the creators of the 10,000 men movement. Can you have the kind of impact that is going to prevent us shooting from occurring on a street if you're just involved indoors with community organizations? Well, we're not just going to be indoors. We're also going to have men present on the street, but we are not going to have any kind of confrontation. We're not going to stop anyone from shooting what our purpose is, is to enlighten our community to raise the consciousness of our community to come out of this culture of crime. The anti-violence movement in Philadelphia draws strongly on black pride and a belief that black men must reassert a positive and visible role in low-income communities.

Omar Simmons and Charles Younger have been trying to do that via a mentoring group for neighborhood young people, some of whom they brought to the rally. These young men have a part of the place when they become fathers. Okay, right now they're seeing other men, not only in line, but other men who do things with them all the time. Women who love, respect, and protect the women who they care for. 12-year-old Andrew Williams was among the younger of those who turned down. People to begin shooting, shooting shots because of the fights, the game. We need to stop all that. Volunteers hope to counter a street credo of settling scores through violence. Police Commissioner Johnson recently asked young students what they would do if someone harmed their mothers. The students said they would retaliate and kind.

I've got a total three different schools every single week, and we talk about choices. One bad choice can go into your life. We let the children know when a continuous basis won, the guns give you no power, the drugs give you no power, the money gives you power. The other thing that I use an example, I came from a streets of North Philadelphia, and if I can come from a streets of North Philadelphia, please commission so can they. New day, Philly! The men who gathered on that Sunday afternoon, this fall pledged to deliver such messages to young people across the city. But the work is just getting started. In follow-up meetings, since the rally, about 3,000 men had turned out to volunteer, and several hundred will begin high visibility walks in South Philadelphia this week to hand out literature and make contact with residents. It's fewer than the 10,000 men, but organizers say it's a good beginning. And finally tonight another of our conversations with candidates for the Democratic and Republican presidential nominations who are running in the primaries. Tonight, the candidate is Senator Joe Biden, Democrat of Delaware, Judy Woodruff spoke with him and Mason City, Iowa yesterday.

Senator Biden, thank you very much for talking with us. We are here in Iowa. You're campaigning all out. You are saying to the voters of Iowa, you are the most qualified person in the race. In the midst of this battle among the Democrats, over who's got the most experience, you have a new ad out full page ad. The Moyne Register is saying you are the wisest, most seasoned person to lead the nation. What do you base that on? Actually, it's kind of a tongue and cheek ad. It starts off as a picture of all my colleagues and running with the same Joe's right. And so it's kind of tongue and cheek. I'm basically an online experience. The fact of the matter is that although Senator Clinton talks about having the most experience and she has great experience, while she was working for the Children's Defense Fund, I was writing laws protecting children in the United States Senate. She did good work. I was in the Senate. While Barack Obama talks about change, I was able to convince the Democratic Party to change their position on the criminal justice system on crime issues, on the Violence Against Women Act.

I've been able to convince President Clinton to use force and Bosnia to end the genocide. But it's really not about change or experience. I think it's about action and the ad is sort of a little bit of tongue and cheek to get people focused. Well, you have this impressive resume as you just referred to. You've been running for the better part of a year, and yet I've heard you read that you complain, you're still having to introduce yourself to voters. Well, close to that, it's not that way anymore and I will. And it's not that way nationally. The Rasmussen poll that just came out shows me and the dead heat with Romney and shows me and the dead heat with Giuliani. And so it's starting to sink in. But I think it's because in the Democratic side, we have two incredibly talented people. A woman who has great talent, an African-American with great talent, and they've sort of sucked all the oxygen out of the air. You know, they've been very, very much in the news. They've raised tens of millions of dollars. And so it's not at all surprising that the focus would go to them in the Democratic side.

But now the islands are starting to focus. They're starting to decide. And I think I've got a clear shot here to do very, very well. The red where your son Bow has introduced you to the crowds, at least in one place, saying you will rebuild the country the way you rebuild your family. You've had, of course, terrible tragedy in your life, your first wife died. You lost a daughter. You had to deal with your own health challenges. How do you make this transition from the personal to the political that your son must be? Well, I'm really pretty uncomfortable with that. I've no talk about that, and I was really sort of taken aback when my son introduced me that way, not in a bad way, but it just kind of caught me off guard. But I do think that how we deal with crises in our lives, serious crises, gives you the individual. You either grow stronger or grow weaker from it. You don't remain the same. And it's given me confidence to believe that I can handle serious crises. It is true.

Right after I got elected, my wife and daughter and two sons were broad-sided by a tractor trailer. My wife killed and my daughter killed. My son's pretty badly injured. It took a while for me to adjust to that and sort of get our lives back together. And it is true. The doctors gave me about a 30% chance to live in and took the top of my head off a couple of times because had cranial aneurysms. But what it does do when you get through those things, it makes you realize that you can handle crises. It gives you an inner confidence. And I'm not, I'm sure that's not unique to me. I mean, there's millions of Americans who've gone through difficult things. So I don't know how it affects the voters, but I know how it affected me. It makes me realize that there's nothing that is critical other than life and death, and that there's a solution almost every problem. And I've come out of my life experiences more optimistic about the possibilities than I have for a pessimist. You just referred back to 1972 when that terrible accident happened. That was a year you were elected to serve in Washington. You've now spent what over half of your life.

Working in Washington serving in Washington 35 years can somebody who's been part of government for that long really go out and change the world as I've heard you say. Yeah, I think I can. But I want you to know now there's only four senators serve longer than me. But 41 are still older than me Judy. That's the very important thing I want you to listen to know. But yeah, I think so because that's been the history of my participation in the Senate. I mean, remember back in the days when the Republicans were beating up Democrats being soft on crime and Democrats talked about law and order with justice. Why came along? It took me 10 years. But I changed the landscape. I wrote the Biden crime bill which put 100,000 cops in the street, but it also put $10 billion in the prevention. I brought liberals and conservatives together to a plan that worked. The Warren Bosnia. You covered that. You covered me covering that. It took me two years to convince President Clinton. We had to use force in Bosnia. We did it. We saved people's lives. We went out losing any forces.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that the things that I've been involved in from the Violence Against Women Act to foreign policy. I won't say head of the curve. That sounds too self serving, but I've been an agent of change. I've been the one moving the Democratic Party or moving the president or moving the country. And I think that's what I'm exactly what I'm doing on Iraq. I'm the only one with a clear plan adopted by a majority of the foreign policy establishment. 75 senators. It took a long time. But I would argue that my participation in government has been not in sync with what the conventional wisdom was, but mostly out of sync and the head of the majority of what the conventional wisdom was. You're a rock plan. You were out with it months ago. I essentially you would separate Iraq into three ethnic divisions in effect Sunni, Shia, and Kerr there would be a weak central government. The U.S. has endorsed this. It's got a number of fans here in the United States, but not so many fans in Iraq. How do you make it happen?

Well, the way you make it happen, and by the way, initially there weren't many fans in Iraq because the president called a partition. It's not a partition. It calls with their federal constitution calls for. So I know most of these leaders. I met with Hashimah the Sunni. I met with the Shia, the Kurds. I met with all these leaders. Every one of them now has gone on record is endorsing the plan except for Sutter, the guy who has the mighty army. And so the way you make it work, I could tomorrow where the president prepared to do it. Look, we have the military's done a very good job in this search. No one ever doubted that. But now the opportunity presents itself. What do you do with this better condition? Now's the time for the president to call in as I'd recommend it, the international community. Get a national conference on Iraq sponsored by the big five countries. Bring in Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey. Bring them in and get an agreement on a federal system inside Iraq. This is the time to do it. We could do it right now.

The Iraqis are ready for it. The international community is ready for it. And I believe with the leadership of the permanent five of the United Nations, we could get this done. But the president continues to cling due to this notion that we can have a strong central government that has shared power, that all the Iraqis are going to trust and it won't happen. But with this recent reduction in violence on the heels of the surge of U.S. troops, is that not a reason to rethink not just U.S. policy, but your plan? Is that a new factor here? No, but it does, it really. No one ever doubted that the military would do their job. Now it's time for the president to do his. Now there's a little breeding room and the president is doing nothing. The number two man in the military in Iraq. General says there's a very short window here, a small window. We see no progress in the part of the Iraqis reconciling their differences.

So Judy, once the surge is lifted, once we stop, we're going to go back to the Civil War again. This is the time the president has to say. All right, here's the deal. You voted for a constitution that says you are a loosely federated government. Go ahead and implement it. Now get the rest of the world to bless it, just like we did in Bosnia, just like we did with the date and piece of course, but it requires presidential leadership. You're on the record calling for U.S. troops, most of them to be out of Iraq by the summer of 2008. Is that realistic? The president is making it less realistic because he isn't acting on the political side. It is realistic, if in fact, we get a political settlement. Why are we there? Where there is a referee in the midst of the Civil War. That's why we're there. If we left tomorrow, everybody says what would happen? As soon as she is and start killing each other again. So if you're going to be able to leave without leaving chaos behind, you've got to leave in a circumstance

where the soonies and she has worked out a deal that they're not going to kill each other. How do you do that? You do that by going forward with the Biden-Gell plan, which has gotten so much support, and say, hey, take your militia and make him your local army. Have a central government that controls the army and the resources, but doesn't tell you what kind of laws you have to have relative to education in your community. And you're saying, if you're a elected president, you could make this. I guarantee you we could make it happen. I mean, yes, you're about another critical place of the map, Pakistan. Yes. The president, General, really good news and bad news there, right? Now the General Musharraf, the leader of the country, is set elections for January the 80s, let back into the country, one of his arch political rivals. He's a, but he's also, as you know, imposed the state of emergency. He's cracked down on the judiciary, on the press. What should the U.S. posture be right now so that Pakistan turns out in the way that is in the best interest?

That's vocal with Musharraf, and I told him that I think our posture should be what he should do. He has to hold these elections. He has to live, live, when he's essentially a martial law. So the whole work can see that these are fair and free and transparent elections. And if he does that, he will be able to then work out the constitutional issues of the role of the prime minister versus the president. In a negotiation within a freely elected parliament, if he doesn't do that duty, there's going to be chaos. They're going to be chaos. And don't count on the military continuing to back him indefinitely. He needs the military, but they do not like this chaos that he is causing by insisting on how he's going. So we should make it clear to him. These must be transparent elections, not under martial law. Sharif is back. They are strong. They don't like going to know they're at all. They're a splitter of the same party. And you have the most popular party, the most popular party is Mrs. Bhutto's party.

Who knows how that election will turn out, but they need the election to take place. A couple of other questions closer to home, immigration. It's been a more divisive issue for the other party, for the Republicans over the last year, until this recent flaps over driver's licenses for illegal immigrants. Refresh us or remind us on what your position is on that, and how big an issue do you think it is going to be with the American people next? I think it's a pretty big issue, Judy. It's amazing out here in Iowa. I've been done hundreds of events in Iowa. I always first could ask about Iraq and foreign policy. Next question is always immigration. And there's three pieces to it. The one piece is that people don't want to persecute the 14 million undocumented aliens that are here, but they want to have some sense that we have some control of our borders, and that you're not bringing in loads of people that are driving down wages for Americans and American jobs or legitimate concerns.

So, in my view, what you have to do is you have to have much more security, not only the border and the south, but all our borders. We are woefully unprotected in terms of drugs to immigration, to terrorism. But that said, you have to also find a way for the 14 million people that are here undocumented to be able to work their way through. And what you should require is what we said before. Everyone should have to show up and register. They get a tear-proof card, have a criminal background check. If they have a criminal record, deport them. If they don't have a don't show up to get the record, deport them. If, in fact, they show up and they have a job, no criminal record, allow them to earn their way through to get in line for citizenship, as long as they learn to speak English. In the meantime, you've got to come down hard on employers who deliberately hire illegal aliens. My problem with the driver's license.

And the reason I don't support the granting the driver's licenses. Driver's license is the main means of identification when you get in an airplane or you get access to anything else. And we have no control when that occurs. We have no control. And so it seems to me that if we're not on a 9-11 post-9-11 circumstance, it might not be as critical. But in a 9-11 post-9-11 circumstance, people using driver's license to access through security is not a good thing to be able to do without you being an American citizen. How would you size up its health and what would you as president want to do to see it get out of this current subprime mass, which is spreading to the rest of the economy? Sure is. And what would you want to see to keep the U.S. economy? The state of the economy is precarious right now. Two reasons. We don't know how deep the subprime hole is because there's no transparency in the hedge fund business. And we don't know how many of these bad subprime collateral loans that were offered to get good loans to provide good money.

We don't know how much is built on a bad foundation. We need transparency. We need transparency in the hedge fund side of things, and that has to happen in the future. You have to provide for the ability of people who are losing their home to be able to negotiate for the ability to maintain those homes and interest rates. They're in at now because in the interest of the company they not go bankrupt and interest of the mortgage holder. But more importantly, Judy, the problem we have here is that we owe China a trillion dollars or two trillion dollars in debt to the world, the dollar value the dollar is falling, and why are we so much in debt? The war and tax cuts for the wealthy. I would let the tax cuts expire for the very wealthy. We get the bunch of all these tax cuts. That would put trillion dollars back into the economy that we could use for other things to begin to prop up the economy. I would also change our trade policy. Here we are. Take a look at China.

We have the ability to curtail the importation of those products China is sending to us as tainted, tainted toys, tainted dog food. We can do that under the World Trade Organization rules. We don't do it. We don't even enforce fair trade in this administration and even in the last administration a little bit because we don't want to offend or hurt major companies with interest in those countries. So I would impose fair trade. And the third thing I would do is by ending this war would free up a hundred and twenty billion dollars a year. What is happening? We are hemorrhaging blood and treasure here with war and tax cuts driving ourselves in debt more than we ever have been. And it's having a dramatic impact upon the stability of the dollar and the stability of the market. Last question. Whatever happens in this election throughout this process, what does Joe Biden learned about himself, yourself, and about the American voter? About myself, it surprised me. I feel more passionate. I wasn't ever going to run for president again. I truly wasn't. I had no intention. I haven't done a political speech in twenty years.

I mean, I've done speeches. But I mean, I haven't gone on to these Jefferson Jackson Day dinners and campaign and go around the country. And what I'm surprised was when I started, I wonder whether I'd have the passion and the energy to do this. But it surprised me. I feel more passionate about the possibilities for this country than I did when I was twenty-nine years old elected to Senate. The other thing that I've learned, I've learned that the American people are a lot tougher. Have a lot more resilience and a lot more gumption and grit than either political party gives them credit for. They're prepared to take on all of these issues. They are not afraid. But they're tired. They're tired of the timidity of my party. They're tired of the of the triangulating and not given the full answers and not leveling with it. People get it. I made a commitment this time out. I may have said this to you before. That winter lose I'm going to do it in my own terms.

I am not going to lose in anybody else's terms. And so I've learned that it's also probably the best politics. Senator Joe Biden on that note, we thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. For more on Senator Biden, you can visit our Vote 2008 website at PBS.org. All of our candidate interviews and campaign updates are also available there. And again, the major developments of this day Israel and the Palestinians agreed to restart peace talks. They set a goal in negotiating a final deal by the end of next year. French police face the third night of rioting by youths in the suburbs of Paris and Wall Street rallied the Dow Jones Industrial Average gained 215 points. We'll see you online and again here tomorrow evening. I'm Jim Lara. Thank you and good night.

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Good evening. I'm Jim Lara. On the news hour tonight news of this Tuesday then a report from the Annapolis summit on the Israeli-Palestinian agreement to resume negotiations. And a newsmaker interview with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Almert. Plus the story of a citizen's effort to stem the rising murder rate in Philadelphia and another of our conversations with presidential candidates tonight. Democratic Senator Joe Biden.

It's not even just about leaping and jumping for joy because you plan to head smartly. And it's not even about sharing time with family and friends over a great meal whenever you want. A specific life.