The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour; Democratic Convention

MR. MacNeil: Good evening. Leading the news this Tuesday, Jesse Jackson's Presidential Campaign reaches an emotional climax tonight in a speech to the Democratic Convention, Dukakis forces debated three Jackson platform planks and compromised on others, the Justice Department has begun an internal probe of possible ethical violations by Edwin Meese, Iran and Iraq clashed in the air, despite Iran's acceptance of a cease-fire. We'll have details in our News Summary in a moment. Jim.

MR. LEHRER: After the News Summary, we look at Jesse Jackson's night at the Democratic National Convention with Former Vice President Walter Mondale, our regular analysts, David Gergen and Mark Shields, and Chicago Tribune Correspondent George Curry, with a Judy Woodruff report on the Dukakis/Jackson deal that preceded tonight, and with an Elizabeth Brackett piece on the Alabama delegation's wrestle with the platform. We close with a Roger Mudd essay on what having a political convention in town can do to an otherwise normal place like Atlanta, Georgia.NEWS SUMMARY

MR. LEHRER: This is Jesse Jackon's night in Atlanta, and in the Democratic Party. The man who finished second in the race for the Presidential nomination will address the Democratic National Convention. Jackson made a breakfast appearance and then canceled all other scheduled activities to work on that speech. It will cap off an evening devoted mostly to the adoption of a platform. The forces of Michael Dukakis were expected to defeat Jackson on two minority planks, one pledged no tax increases for low and middle income Americans, while increasing taxes for high income people and corporations. The other committed the United States to no first use of nuclear weapons. Some of the most heated debate was on that nuclear issue.

SEN. ALAN CRANSTON, Dukakis Supporter: It is not wise to declare a military doctrine that is not credible. I, therefore, urge you to reject the substitute plank and to stick with the original platform language. Let us work together. Let us work together to create a world where there will be no first use, no second use, no use ever!

ELEANOR SMEAL, Jackson Supporter: Our failure to renounce the first use of nuclear weapons is a failure that makes the moral choice for our children's future, for our species, and, indeed, for all life on this earth. It is time for the United States to provide leadership by renouncing this policy. Let each of us vote our conscience. This issue can unite us all, no first use!

MR. LEHRER: The two sides agreed to debate but not vote on another Jackson proposal to create a Palestinian homeland. They also agreed to compromise on other minority views. Robin.

MR. MacNeil: Further tying this convention day to the themes of black America, Michael Dukakis and Lloyd Bentsen visited the grave of Martin Luther King in Atlanta today. They joined Coretta Scott King, widow of the civil rights leader. She told Dukakis, "We wish you well in this effort because we're counting on you to set things right again." Dukakis quoted King's words, "Everybody can be great because anybody can serve."

GOV. MICHAEL DUKAKIS, Democratic Presidential Candidate: Dr. King was a man of action, he was a man of inspiration. He cared deeply about some very basic human values. "I have the audacity," he said, "to believe that peoples everywhere can have three meals a day for their bodies, education and culture for their minds, and dignity and equality and freedom for their spirits." That's not too complicated and it's very very basic, and it's what we're all about.

MR. MacNeil: They spelled out more details of the agreement reached in yesterday's meeting with Jesse Jackson. Jackson will keep much of his organization intact to campaign for the ticke, with party funds paying the bills. Joseph Warren, a Dukakis aide, said, "Make no mistake about it; what Jesse needs, Jesse will get."

MR. LEHRER: The Justice Department has launched an investigation into the ethics of Attorney General Edwin Meese. The probe was revealed today by the Washington lobbying group Common Cause which had written to the Department's Office of Public Responsibility urging such action. Common Cause today released the Department's oneparagraph answer. "We have initiated an inquiry into your complaint and we will advise you of the results upon its conclusion." The 814 page report of Independent Counsel James McKay will presumably be part of the investigation. That report, made public yesterday, said Meese had probably violated several laws, but not in a manner that warranted prosecution. Meese has attacked the statement as unfair.

MR. MacNeil: It was warfare as usual in the skies over Iran and Iraq today, the day after Iran accepted a United Nations cease- fire resolution to end the eight year old conflict. Peter Gold of the BBC has a report.

PETER GOLD, BBC: The air battle took place as Iraqi jets crossed into Iran's air space near the Southern City of Akvan. According to Iran, a number of workers were killed or injured when the planes bombed industrial installations. It's not yet clear if the targets included any of Iran's tankers or oil terminals. Iraq claimed that its planes also shot down an Iranian F-14 in the dogfight over the Gulf. Bagdhad Radio said all its aircraft returned safely to base. But according to the Iranian News Agency, the Iraqi planes came under heavey fire and two were shot down. At the United Nations, the Secretary General, Mr. Peres De Quilliar, has met representatives of both countries as talks continue over the implementation of Resolution 598 calling for an end to the war. In Tehran, the Speaker of the Iranian Parliament, Mr. Rafsanjani, went on television to say the decision to accept a cease-fire had been taken for the benefit of the nation and there was no sign of weakness in it. On a visit to Tokyo, the American Secretary of State welcomed the peace moves, made it clear there would be no sudden withdrawal of United States warships from the Gulf.

GEORGE SHULTZ, Secretary of State: As far as the U.S. Naval presence in the Gulf is concerned, the increase in our presence took place in response to problems. If the problems go away, the ship presence go down.

MR. MacNeil: Peres De Quilliar has said he hopes to implement a Persian Gulf cease-fire within a week to ten days.

MR. LEHRER: Fifty thousand acres of land have been devastated by wild fires in five Western states. The total in Alaska has risen to 675,000 acres. In Northwestern Colorado, fire fighters hoped a late rain would help contain one of a series of blazes that have blackened 20,000 acres. High temperatures and dry weather have hampered efforts to put out the fires. Many were started by lightning and have been burning since last week.

MR. MacNeil: In Moscow, the Soviet Government has demanded an end to ethnic agitation in the Republics of Armenia and Azerbaijan. They have been in ferment with strikes, demonstrations and clashes for several months over Armenian demands for the return of the enclave, Nagorno Karabak, from Azerbaijan. Yeterday the Kremlin said the borders could not be changed. And today it said it would no longer tolerate civil disobedience. Officials said they were counting on good sense, not police force, to end strikes. Soviet inspectors visited an air base in England today for the first check in Britain on U.S. Cruise Missiles under the treaty which will eliminate them. Twenty Soviet inspectors arrived by Aeroflat Jet at Greenham Common, and were welcomed by U.S. and British officers. Under the INF Treaty, inspectors may check the missiles and their launchers before they're taken back to the United States and destroyed.

MR. LEHRER: And that's it for the News Summary. Now it's on to Jesse Jackson night in prime time Atlanta with Walter Mondale, Gergen and Shields and George Curry, reports on the deal and the Alabama delegation, and a Roger Mudd essay.

MR. LEHRER: Four years ago in San Francisco, a defeated candidate named Jesse Jackson apologized to his fellow Democrats for his campaign's low moments.

REV. JESSE JACKSON, [1984]: I am not a perfect servant. I am a public servant doing my best against the odds, as I developed and served, be patient, God is not finished with me yet. NEWS MAKER INTERVIEW WITH WALTER MONDALE

MR. LEHRER: Tonight Jesse Jackson is back to speak again to a Democratic National Convention, again, as a defeated candidate, but not again to apologize. The man who won the 1984 nomination was Walter Mondale. He is with us tonight from our booth at the convention center.

MR. LEHRER: Mr. Mondale welcome. How would you describe the difference between the Jesse Jackson of 1984 and the Jesse Jackson of tonight?

WALTER MONDALE, Former Vice President: I think he's much more seasoned. We forget that when he ran for President in '84, he had very little political experience. He basically was a preacher and a protest leader. He has now had several additional years of experience in the political world, and I think he's much more seasoned and sure-footed as his treatment of this convention clearly demonstrates and the tremendous support that is shown here and you'll see here tonight when he speaks.

MR. LEHRER: Do you think he rates this treatment he is getting here tonight?

MR. MONDALE: I do, for several special reasons. After all, Jesse Jackson is the first serious black candidate for President in American history. He reflects the profound success of the civil rights revolution. He represents a broad cross-section of people who suffer, who are poor, often alienated. It has traditionally been the role of the Democratic Party to open the doors to permit those who have been excluded to be included. And I think it's healthy for our party to hear from Jesse Jackson tonight. He's an essential element of our success strategy for the fall.

MR. LEHRER: All right. Mr. Vice President, thank you, and don't go away. We'll be back to you later in the program. GERGEN/SHIELDS/CURRY POLITICAL ANALYSIS

MR. LEHRER: Also with us tonight to comment and analyze, Gergen and Shields plus Curry, that's U.S. News & World Report Editor David Gergen, Washington Post Political Columnist Mark Shields, and Chicago Tribune Correspondent George Curry.

MR. LEHRER: David Gergen, why is it that the man who finished second is getting so much attention?

DAVID GERGEN, U.S. News & World Report: Well, he's been at the center of this convention, the center of media attention here now for the last 48 years. It's remarkable. But I think he has also earned it in the sense that Walter Mondale just spoke about. He won 7 million votes in this campaign. He brought several issues to the top of the agenda, drugs being first and foremost. But I think there is an overwhelming sense in this city -- I don't know whether the rest of the country shares it -- but in this convention there's an overwhelming sense that somehow something is coming together and that Jesse Jackson is being taken very seriously this year.

MR. LEHRER: Do you agree with that, George?

GEORGE CURRY, Chicago Tribune: Yes. But it's more than what the Former Vice President said. It is also that Jesse Jackson has helped revitalize the party. He has given the party vision and he has said, look, we don't need go out Republican Republican, let's go back to our solid base, and I think that's Jesse's greatest contribution.

MR. LEHRER: Now looking at it from Jesse Jackson's perspective, Mark, how important an event tonight is this for him?

MARK SHIELDS, Washington Post. It is in a political sense the most important statement he will ever make. This is the first time Jesse Jackson has addressed the American people as a full-fledged Presidential candidate, not the leader of a movement, not an interesting speaker, but a full-fledged Presidential candidate. There is one other thing I'd add, Jim, and that is Jesse Jackson holds an incredible trump card as far as the Democratic Party is concerned. Since Franklin Roosevelt's last election in 1944, there have been four Democratic Presidents elected, Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson, John Kennedy and Jimmy Carter. Only one of them has won a majority of the white vote. All of them have won the Presidency with a minority of the white vote. Black votes have been critical and crucial, indispensable to their election. That's the case with Michael Dukakis in 1988 as well.

MR. LEHRER: We've got plenty of time later so don't go away. Thank you. Robin.

MR. MacNeil: Yes. Now we look at the steps the Jackson/Dukakis forces had to take here in Atlanta to smooth the way for the Rev. Jackson's climactic appearance later this evenin. There was suspense about what he might end up doing until he and Gov. Dukakis hammered out a unity agreement at a three hour meeting yesterday. Judy Woodruff reports on the negotiations and what the agreed. JUDY WOODRUFF REPORT ON DUKAKIS/JACKSON NEGOTIATIONS

REV. JESSE JACKSON: I have registered more voters than any Democrat living. They represent the future of our party and our country. Their contributions merit respect.

MS. WOODRUFF: Jesse Jackson already had doubts about how much he was appreciated by the Democratic Party when one week ago today Michael Dukakis chose Texan Lloyd Bentsen as his running mate.

REV. JACKSON: I was met by people from the media who said to me that Sen. Bentsen was in the airport on his way to Boston and had been the person selected.

MS. WOODRUFF: The Dukakis Campaign insisted the fact that Jackson had to hear the news first from a reporter had been an unfortunate goof, but Jackson wasn't buying.

REV. JACKSON: I'm an odds breaker and a dream maker and I will never surrender and I will never turn around. I will never surrender and I will never turn around.

MS. WOODRUFF: What had been at best a cordial relationship between the top two Democratic vote getters was strained to its limits. Jackson and his supporters reacted as if they'd been slapped in the face. But after the two men talked by phone a few times, their top aides by now in Atlanta, met behind closed hotel doors to try to piece the relationship back together.

KIRK O'DONNELL, Dukakis Campaign [July 17, 1988]: We are not commenting on the proposals, haven't commented up to this point, other than to say that we have made proposals and we are hopeful of working out a plan that would involve everyone in our general election effort.

MS. WOODRUFF: While the Dukakis camp refused to talk specifics, Jackson advisers put the word out that what they wanted was a specific guarantee of a role for Jackson not just in the fall campaign but beyond as well. That was enough to cause concern among many prominent Democrats.

WALTER MONDALE, Former Vice President: I'm unaware of a time when a candidate has obviously not made the nomination, Jesse Jackson, but who continues to campaign and then sets forth a series of requests, to use a euphamism, for the convention, for the campaign, and for the government. I think that is unique.

MS. WOODRUFF: Jackson's advisers, however, explained that their man was not just any runner-up.

RON BROWN, Jackson Convention Manager: I think history was made. i think the landscape of American politics has changed because of Jesse Jackson's extraordinary performance and his extraordinary candidacy during this year. I think this is an unprecedented year, and I think it called for unprecedented steps. I think Michael Dukakis showed a willingness to take those steps, because he understands what it takes to put together a winning team. We wanted to be sure that we were going to be a part of that team, and I think that it's clear that we are.

MS. WOODRUFF: As an agreement was being hammered out, Jackson's representatives looked for assurances that Jackson people would be integrated into all levels of a Dukakis Administration and that Jackson, himself might be given a prominent semi-official role, perhaps as an international crisis negotiator. When word of this got out, senior party statesmen, including Walter Mondale, balked.

WALTER MONDALE: I don't think that it would be appropriate for a President to agree in advance to any structural relationship that would any way diminish total free choice in his role as President of the United States. And I don't think that Jesse would agree to that if he were the nominee.

MS. WOODRUFF: Questions about Jackson's role and influence were still unanswered yesterday morning when he headed for a private session with Dukakis. After three hours, the two men emerged with what appeared to be an understanding.

GOV. MICHAEL DUKAKIS, Democratic Presidential Candidate [July 18, 1988]: I want Jesse Jackson to play a major role in this campaign. I want his supporters who are out there by the millions to be deeply involved in this campaign.

REV. JESSE JACKSON: We're now on a track that will lead to expanded involvement, more excitement, and great motivation to build a team that will carry us to victory.

MS. WOODRUFF: Both camps carefully denied that any promises had been asked for or made about a job for Jackson in the next Administration, but there clearly had been discussion of a role for Jackson supporters.

PAUL BROUNTAS, Dukakis Campaign Chairman: Governor Dukakis has always been a leader who believes in the politics of inclusion. He's done it in his own Administration over the past 10 years as Governor of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, and I suspect, as we've indicated, that once you put the team together and if you're successful in November, that team works together through a transition and through hopefully a successful Administration.

RON BROWN, Jackson Convention Manager: The supporters of Jesse Jackson are going to be intricately involved in the campaign and we would think that the significant role that we play in the campaign will be just as significant in the transition and in the Dukakis Administration.

MS. WOODRUFF: As for the campaign this fall, Dukakis Campaign Chairman Paul Brountas said it was only common sense that the winner's campaign would want the help of a strong runner-up like Jackson.

MR. BROUNTAS: He was successful in a number of states where we need to be successful. We want to him to play a major role. We want his millions of supporters to play a major role in this campaign. Now, traditionally, it is common for members of a staff, for key advisers from one campaign to become members of the staff and key advisers to another campaign. This is part of the politics of inclusion.

MS. WOODRUFF: It is not unsual for an also ran to help the party's nominee in the fall. What is different is the scale of the Jackson effort. Jackson will have a jet at his disposal and enough money to campaign extensively throughout the country. Much of his campaign staff will be kept intact as well. As the Jackson people see it, Dukakis satisfied conservatives who don't like Jackson when he chose Bentsen, and now it's only fair to tilt in the other direction.

REP. CHARLES RANGEL, [D] New York: Can the Governor count, and is he willing to give the respect to the loyal members of the Democratic Party that he saw when he selected Sen. Bentsen? I truly believe that his section meant that to that part of our party he wanted them to come back from the Republican line. And all the Reverend was saying is that, give me the same type of attention, I've worked out there, I've registered people, I am the second most successful candidate for President.

MS. WOODRUFF: Paul Brountas insists giving Jackson what he wants does not weaken Dukakis.

MR. BROUNTAS: In past conventions, for one reason or another, the person who is leading is reluctant to ask the next person to join him in such a meeting for fear maybe that it shows weakness or certainly the person who didn't win is reluctant to support the leader because his supporters may feel that he's compromising himself. What you have is two very strong leaders who certainly know who they are and know their own strengths.

MS. WOODRUFF: Former Democratic Presidential Contender Gary Hart sees a problem though in assuming Jackson will confine himself to a conventional political role.

GARY HART, Former Senator: My belief is that he does not see himself as an ordinary politician. He has never quite defined his candidacy in traditional political terms. On the one hand he says, I want to be treated like all other white politicians. And then on the other hand, he says, I am not like all other white politicians, and, therefore, I deserve special treatment.

MS. WOODRUFF: Charles Rangel and other Jackson allies visualize similar possibilities.

REP. RANGEL: Assuming that he was an ambassador without portfolio to deal with developing countries and the drug producing countries, you know, the rules of the game are that there is one President at a time.

MS. WOODRUFF: But other Democrats say whatever Jackson's ultimate aspirations, he has achieved some practical results for his own political future by winning the little noticed promise of more influence on the Democratic National Committee. That puts him in a stronger position for another run for the Presidency in 1992.

MR. BROWN: He thought that we had to participate more effectively in the party at the national, state and local level, so the changes in DNC participation are extraordinarily important.

MS. WOODRUFF: Unprecedented though, is that not right, that the man who did not win the nomination is going to come out of this convention with a much larger voice in the Democratic Party?

MR. BROWN: I told you this was a very special year and I think this indicates that it's a very special year. And I think all Democrats recognize it's a very special year where history was made in American politics.

MR. LEHRER: The formal business on the convention floor today began with a debate on the party platform. The Dukakis forces were set to defeat two Jackson planks, one to limit tax increases for low and middle income Americans, while increasing taxes for the rich and for corporations. That plank was defeated by a 2 to 1 margin. The other would commit the United States to a no first use policy of nuclear weapons. Platform divisions also served to divide state delegations, few more so than the one from Alabama. Elizabeth Brackett is following the Alabama delegation through this convention. Here is her Tuesday report. ELIZABETH BRACKETT TUESDAY REPORT ON ALABAMA DELEGATION

DELEGATE: Because on the platform -- and I have seen the Dukakis platform -- because you know I disagree with -- the platform is too weak. It's too weak. They don't have nothing there concerning civil rights, protecting black folks' rights and ask me now before you cast my vote --

JOHN BAKER: I commit to you I won't cast your vote until you give me the okay.

DELEGATE: Absolutely. Just ask me. That's all I ask you to do.

ELIZABETH BRACKETT: As the delegates from Alabama gathered for their morning caucuses this week, it was clear that while progress towards unity was being made, peace had not entirely broken out.

ALABAMA DELEGATE: John, you might point this out on voting -- now I told Brother Holmes here we won't chase him all over San Francisco to get his vote, so stay in contact with Barbara Bright so we --

JOHN BAKER: If you're not there, you don't vote. You've got to be there. If you're not there to tell me, if I can't look you in the eye, your vote doesn't get counted.

MS. BRACKETT: The battle here centers around the platform, what Party Chairman John Baker says will guide the Democrats in the fall.

JOHN BAKER, Alabama Democratic Party: Once the person wins and earns the nomination, then the platform ought to reflect the views and the feelings of that candidate because he's either going to have to defend it or stand by it, so it's important that you don't want the platform with one position and a candidate with a different position. So that's the importance of it.

MS. BRACKETT: Delegate Lucy Baxley considers herself a moderate Democrat. She had hoped that none of the platform issues where Dukakis and Jackson forces disagree would come to the floor for a vote tonight. Baxley knows all too well the consequences of inner-party fights. When we talked with her last week in Birmingham, she told us about her former husband, Bill Baxley. His disastrous primary fight for Governor left Alabama voters so disgusted with the long party squabble that they elected Alabama's first Republican Governor in a century. So Lucy Baxley says she doesn't want any sign of party dis-unity in Atlanta.

LUCY BAXLEY, Dukakis Delegate: In order for us to project an image of unity for the party, for the good of the country, and for the good of November, I would like to see as few as possible or none really hotly contested on the floor because of the television coverage, the eyes of the nation, and a good bit of the world will be on us, and I just really do not want to see us publicize our disagreements.

MS. BRACKETT: But Alabama's Lieutenant Governor, Jim Folsom, Jr., says it's not dangerous to point out the delegations' differences. In Montgomery, last week, he told us there are critical issues that may be worth fighting over on the floor.

LT. GOV. JIM FOLSOM, JR., State of Alabama: I think basically we need a mainstream middle-of-the-road platform, instead of one that singles out particular issues that can be damaging that the rest of mainstream America cannot agree with, for instance, weakening NATO to the extent that our presence there is not what it should be.

MS. BRACKETT: This is Merriam McLendon's first trip to a convention as a delegate, but at her First World Boutique in Birmingham last week, McLendon cited several platform issues she felt were worth fighting for.

MERRIAM McLENDON, Jackson Delegate: I'd say no first use of our nuclear weapons, freezing the defense budget at its current level, raising taxes for the wealthy and big business.

MS. BRACKETT: Do you have a sense of what you can do to affect that?

MS. McLENDON: Well, I'll be talking to a lot of delegates, both Jackson delegates as well as delegates who are committed to other candidates to try to impress upon them the importance of these issues, not just to Jackson supporters, but to American people as a whole.

MS. BRACKETT: But when Jackson's Alabama delegates caucused this morning, McLendon learned that the Jackson forces would only call for a vote on two of the minority planks. McLendon was disappointed.

MS. McLENDON: Yes, I am a little bit disappointed. We were hoping of course that we could get all of the platform issues on the floor, but we also understand that we have to compromise. The Jackson Campaign, he did not win the Presidential nomination, so we are pleased that we are going to get at least two of them on the floor.

MS. BRACKETT: Last night on the convention floor, Alabama's delegates had already begun debating the platform issues among themselves. Dukakis Whip Rex Cheatham liked the results he was getting as he began to poll the delegation.

REX CHEATHAM, Dukakis Whip: All of the Dukakis delegates are extremely firm and we're very excited that we picked up approximately eight Jackson delegates who feel like the Governor, that we need to give him time to make decisions on issues such as taxes.

MS. BRACKETT: One of those Jackson delegates who said he would vote for the Dukakis planks is Joe Reed. Reed is Chairman of the Alabama Democratic Conference, the state's oldest established black poiltical organization. As we followed Reed around the convention floor last night, it became apparent that he holds some influence on the state level and on a national level as well. Walter Mondale hasn't forgotten that in 1983 Reed's organization endorsed Mondale for President, endorsing Jesse Jackson for Vice President.

JOE REED [Talking to Walter Mondale]: It's so good to see you. I saw you on the screen. I wanted to come over and speak to you - -

WALTER MONDALE: We can win this.

JOE REED: We can carry it.

MR. MONDALE: Can we carry Alabama?

MR. REED: Yes, we can carry it. We can carry it and we'll do it.

SEN. PAUL SIMON: How are you, Joe Reed? I'm happy to see you.

MR. REED: How are you getting along? It's so good to see you. You look so well --

SEN. SIMON: You look great.

MR. REED: We'll be hanging in there. We'll win this election.

SEN. SIMON: I think so. I think so.

MS. BRACKETT: Joe Reed's influence in the delegation has swayed other Jackson delegates to the Dukakis position, and so has the influence of another powerful black Alabama delegate. Birmingham's first black Mayor, Richard Arrington, told us last night that he would go with the Dukakis position when it comes to raising taxes.

RICHARD ARRINGTON, Mayor of Birmingham: Well, I will not support -- I will not vote for a tax increase, anything that suggests that. I just think it's bad strategy. This is not the time to talk about that.

MS. BRACKETT: The split among Jackson delegates in Alabama was still evident as they caucused this morning. Staunch Jackson supporters urged others to hold firm on the Jackson position to raise taxes on the wealthy.

ALABAMA DELEGATE: Have you ever heard of Albert Schweitzer, the famous missionary and philosopher, and he said, "Those who have more have more to give." And I think this is just giving those people who have more the opportunity to give more to help those who don't.

DELEGATE: But my question might be why then does Dukakis oppose that?

ELIZABETH BRACKETT: On the crucial question of raising taxes on the wealthy, the Dukakis forces in Alabama picked up only three defections from the Jackson camp, so the Dukakis position of not mentioning a tax increase in the platform won big in Alabama. The debate on the platform is expected to wrap up well before prime time viewing, leaving plenty of time for the main event tonight, Jesse Jackson's address to the convention.

MR. MacNeil: We have an update on last night's Alabama delegation story. Today State Sen. Earl Goodwin said he was concerned that an excerpt we ran from an interview conducted last week was taken out of context. You can decide for yourself. Here is a look at what we broadcast and what he said about it this morning to the Alabama delegation.

SEN. EARL GOODWIN, [D] Selma [Yesterday]: Well, I mean, my philosophy of the things that I think the separation of the races has been for the good of the country. I think when the blacks had their own schools and all, I think we should have done everything in our power to see that they had every opportunity. I think they ought to have had just as good of schools, I think they ought to have had just as much money invested and maybe more, whatever required, to give them the quality education. The only thing I worry about them now is they're forced in with students that they can't compete with maybe, some can.

JOHN BAKER [Today]: Earl Goodwin asked to be recognized for kind of a point of personal privilege, which I'll do

SEN. EARL GOODWIN [Today]: Yes. I just want to inform the group that in a long interview I have been quoted out of context and if I have offended any of my friends, I just want to apologize to them.

MR. MacNeil: The Senator did not elaborate. After he spoke to the delegation, some black delegates said they were disturbed by his remarks, but most said they accepted his apology. RESUMPTION OF INTERVIEEW WITH WALTER MONDALE

MR. LEHRER: Now to some analysis of the day, the night, and the convention thus far. First, we return to our booth at the convention center to Former Vice President Walter Mondale, the 1984 Democratic Nominee for President.

MR. LEHRER: Mr. Mondale, is a party platform important to anybody, except a few delegates at a convention?

WALTER MONDALE, Former Vice President: Well, I think it depends. I made a confession today that I think shocked a few people. I did not read my platform. It was 35,000 words -- it seemed like 35,000 pages -- and so far as I know, I have not yet met anyone who has read that whole platform. What I do know is it got us into a lot of trouble, because we answered a lot of questions while the Republicans weren't answering any. So what we've done this time is try to learn from our mistakes and have a much briefer platform defining our principles and our purposes and leaving such questions as details, legislation and so on for another period.

MR. LEHRER: Well, why go through the exercise if it doesn't mean anything? I mean, their delegates come and they get hot and bothered about certain things, but it's an irrelevancy.

MR. MONDALE: Well, I said in my first answer to your question that it depends. If there is an issue in this country which needs attention or which is a burning issue that is dividing the country -- take Vietnam -- then these platform fights become very meaningful and they become the crucial fulcrom by which the Democratsand the nation grab hold of that issue to change policy, and that they did. If you remember the 1968 convention, it was torn apart and shattered over the Vietnam debate. There have been other times where similar debates had brought to the center of national attention in our conventions and sometimes we've lost because of them, but we've been forced to confront those issues. Humphrey, for example, in 1948, began this long magnificent march towards social justice through civil rights with his famous civil rights speech. Many delegates walked out. They thought he was a trouble maker, but we now know he was one of the great leaders in our nation's history. So sometimes these debates are very important. Another kind of debate is where the platform is used by candidates as a hammer to try to defeat an opposing candidate. Since Jesse has agreed to this unity approach, I would say a lot of the emotion that you would otherwise have seen here tonight surrounding these issues just isn't there. I've been around the floor. I've talked to a lot of my friends I know and who were on the opposite side of me on some of these issues, and I could tell, although they're talking, it's not the biggest point in their life.

MR. LEHRER: It's perfunctory exercise, in other words?

MR. MONDALE: No, I don't want to be heard to say that, because I think many many people are serious about these and these are serious issues.

MR. LEHRER: I meant to the two candidates, to Michael Dukakis and Jesse Jackson, this is an exercise that must be gone through and that's it, right?

MR. MONDALE: Yes. I think it's far less important. It would have been important, but in light of what happened on Monday, I think it's now much more a formalism.

MR. LEHRER: Speaking about what happened on Monday, did Michael Dukakis weaken himself by making a deal that he made with Jesse Jackson that we have been discussing tonight?

MR. MONDALE: I think the big story of this convention is not only how Jesse managed to accept the proposal and pursue negotiations the way he did, for which I think he deserves great credit, and on the other hand, how Michael Dukakis handled this is in a statesmanlike way while fully protecting the full integrity and authority of his campaign and of his Presidency. What fundamentally happened to make this agreement possible was that both Jesse Jackson and Michael Duakakis removed the technicians, stopped talking about details like jobs and money and planes and delegates and things like that, and instead of that, just talked to each other about trust and about understanding, and about working together to win and needing each other's help to govern. And that is the genius of this understanding. And that's the only thing that both elevates Jesse Jackson and leaves that Presidential integrity and authority and character unsullied.

MR. LEHRER: There have been a lot of comments, as you know, in the last 24 hours, with people suggesting that you never solved your Jesse Jackson problem in 1984, that you did not sit down with him and have the kind of conversation that Michael Dukakis did. Is that a fair criticism?

MR. MONDALE: It may be, although I must say we spent hours together. But I think it's also fair that we did not solve it the way Michael Dukakis has been able to solve it. And I think people will see that and sense that there's a President in the making here. I think part of it too -- as I said earlier -- I think Rev. Jackson was fairly new to the political process. And in our discussions I got the impression that he wasn't quite sure on what basis to settle, what did he want, where should we go, it wasn't clear. Now having said that, Rev. Jackson went out and tried very hard to register voters and he was helpful in that campaign.

MR. LEHRER: Do you think that Michael Dukakis did the right thing in going to his right, rather than to his left, in selecting a running mate, as you did in 1984?

MR. MONDALE: Yes, I do. I think incidentally, Geraldine Ferarro was exactly the right choice for 1984, but I think we've learned a lesson, and I must include myself among the students. There's about 15 million voters out there that used to vote for us all the time. They're getting in the habit of doing something else. And that's causing us to lose these elections. It's making us -- if we don't change -- into a minority national presidential party, and we simply had to broaden our appeal. The second thing about the Bentsen choice is that he is an extraordinarily gifted and respected Senator and public leader. This broadens our appeal in the most responsible way. I've worked with Lloyd for years and I think this choice of Sen. Bentsen is going to prove to be one of the true Presidential acts of genius in this campaign.

MR. LEHRER: And in 1984, you never got to any of those voters, is that right? Is that a fair statement?

MR. MONDALE: I know of five or six. I've often suspected you, but I've never been sure -- I was afraid of that answer.

MR. LEHRER: I'm not answering your question. I'm not answering your question. I'm going to quickly say, Robin. Robin. Thank you, Mr. Vice President. RESUMPTION OF GERGEN/SHIELDS/CURRY POLITICAL ANALYSIS

MR. MacNeil: Yes. And now let's bring in our other analysts, David Gergen, Mark Shields, and this evening George Curry of the Chicago Tribune.

MR. MacNeil: Mark Shields, the Former Vice President just said there's no loss of Presidential dignity, it's gone unsullied in whatever deals and negotiations that were done. Leaving aside that question of Presidential dignity, what about the kind of image Michael Dukakis needs to develop to wage this campaign now, is it damaging to his image that Jackson has so much attention, and all day again today and tonight?

MARK SHIELDS, Washington Post: Yes, it has. Jesse Jackson has dominated the entire press coverage for at least the last week. This has to be, this is of necessity Jesse Jackson's night, his moment in the spotlight, his moment before the cameras, and it has to be if Michael Dukakis is going to put his stamp and his character upon this convention and this campaign, this has to be his curtain call, this must be it, final curtain call, no more cudos, no more returns. After tonight, three is company. All right. I mean, two is all there is, and Michael Dukakis has two nights left.

MR. MacNeil: You mean three's a crowd?

MR. SHIELDS: Three's a crowd, I'm sorry. Three is a crowd -- but the fact of the matter is he's got two nights left to put his own stamp on the convention and to establish really his own sense of leadership, his own persona, and his own vision of the country, and he'd better do it.

MR. MacNeil: Do you agree with that, George Curry, tonight is it for Jesse Jackson?

GEORGE CURRY, Chicago Tribune: Well, no, I don't think -- his night at the convention -- but let met me talk about image for a minute. I think Jesse Jackson has done a great service for Dukakis only because he makes Dukakis seem more in the center. And had Jesse Jackson not been there on the left, Dukakis would be the guy out there on the left. Also, Jesse coming in and --

MR. MacNeil: Which of course is what the Republicans are trying to paint him.

MR. CURRY: They were going to pain him even more so without Jesse though. So you have Jesse there on your left, you have Bentsen there on your right, you look more in the center. Also, by just saying no to Jesse, that makes him come across as a strong leader and that he's repairing it by having some mission to the Jackson camp, but I think Jesse Jackson candidate has made Dukakis a better candidate.

MR. MacNeil: David Gergen, has Dukakis said no enough to Jesse to look like a strong leader in this, or has he had to give him too much?

DAVID GERGEN, U.S. News & World Report: Well, I think he did say no, but you know there's an interesting thing between the difference between what has actually happened here and the degree to which Jesse Jackson continues to dominate the media coverage, so that one very much has the impression that this is still the Jesse Jackson convention. I think Mark is absolutely on target.

MR. MacNeil: This is the Jesse Jackson convention?

MR. GERGEN: It's become much more the Jesse Jackson convention. I think that there is a rumbling now starting here -- okay, we got the deal yesterday, but how much longer is this going on? And, Mark, to your point, the fact is Jesse Jackson's name is going to be put in nomination tomorrow night. We're going to have a lot of hoopla tomorrow night on Jesse Jackson. I tell you what's wrong with that from Michael Dukakis's point of view. It's beginning to blot out who Dukakis is if it goes on much longer, and Dukakis soon has to start getting his message out, here's who I am as a candidate, you have to get to know me as a person, and here's what I want to do for the country. And he still has to move on that.

MR. MacNeil: What is it most important, Mark Shields, that Jesse Jackson accomplish in this speech tonight? Is it to the delegates in the hall, to make them, swing them behind, enthusiastically behind the ticket? Is it to the national audience? What is the most important thing he has to do?

MR. SHIELDS: I think Jesse Jackson, it's a valedictory for him. It's a defining moment politically. I mean, he's going to be talking to fifty million plus Americans, and I think he has to define what he's about, what he thinks of the Democratic Party, and I think then he has to say why it's important for a Democrat to win in 1988. There must be a sense of looking forward to the general election. Let me just pick up one point that George made and I think he's absolutely right. Jesse Jackson by these very questions that were raised on the platform is doing Michael Dukakis a service, because the Democrats are seen as weak on two central issues in this campaign going into it, holding the line on taxes, Peter Hart poll of the Chicago Tribune, and on national defense. And on both of those, Jesse Jackson because of the issues he raised puts Michael Dukakis defense freeze, as against a defense freeze and for a tax freeze, which is where he wants to be.

MR. GERGEN: Can I offer a point on this? I would just like to sharply disagree with something the Vice President said, as much as I respect Mr. Mondale, and that is that the American people have a right to know where the Democratic Party is going. There is a very big question tonight at this convention. Are these new Democrats, or are these old activist Democrats who are not going to tell us what they really want to do when they get into office? We saw some delegates tonight saying, we don't want to really talk about taxes because that might send the wrong signal. I think the country has a right to know what is the real Democratic agenda, is it the old liberal activist agenda, or is it a new agenda? And one has a sense, and maybe this was a lack of candor here, and I think the country is owed more than that.

MR. CURRY: I don't think it's so much a lack of candidate as it is everyone recognizes that Mondale raised that issue last time and it may have meant defeat. I think the point, the main point, is that when you're getting that specific, especially when you're talking about devisive measures, taxing the rich but not everybody else, then that only causes more chaos. I think that was his point.

MR. MacNeil: May I come back to the point about what Jackson has got to do tonight. Has he got to calm the country about the Democratic Party, or has he --he presumably still has a disgruntled delegates who don't want to enthusiastically embrace --

MR. CURRY: His own credibility is on the line, because he has to go back to them and say, yes, I decided to support the ticket, but this is why. Now what I think he'll do tonight is say Dukakis and I have had some problems, but it's more important that we get a Democrat in there next fall and whatever difference we have let's put aside and let's go out and give them hell.

MR. SHIELDS: Could I dissent just slightly from my good friend and colleague, David, on the question of what the Democrats' platform consists of. Specificity has not served the Democrats well. They have come out for full federal funding of sandals for foot fettishists and everything else under the sun in past elections and lost. They're just taking a leaf out of the Republicans -- Richard Nixon had a secret plan for peace in Vietnam.

MR. GERGEN: It's the philosophy of the left that hasn't served the Democrats well. If it's the same philosophy but they're not going to talk about it, then it's misleading the country.

MR. SHIELDS: Do you remember his secret plan to end the war in Vietnam?

MR. GERGEN: That didn't serve the country well either.

MR. SHIELDS: No. But I mean the fact of the matter is the Democrats have been specific in the past to their own --

MR. GERGEN: So now you're saying if we just don't talk about it, we can get elected and --

MR. MacNeil: If I may interrupt you, gentlemen, for a moment, the Vice President wants to come back in. Mr. Mondale.

WALTER MONDALE, Former Vice President: I wanted to respond to David Gergen's point here. First of all, if you read the platform that's been adopted, it's not a nothing statement. I mean, there's a lot of very specific principles, directions in there. It is not without very significant indications of where we're going and secondly, Michael Dukakis has been on the road now for nearly two years answering these questions. This is not a guess what candidate or a guess what party. Lloyd Bentsen has a record of many years of distinguished service so we're not asking the American people to guess who we are, but what we're saying is that we've heard the message from the American people that they want a policy that pursues a moderate, sensible course that considers the needs of middle income and other Americans, and this party, this convention, Gov. Dukakis and Lloyd Bentsen, have made it clear that we've heard that message and we're responding. And I think that's leadership. Let me make one other point if I can and I've got a little bone in my throat over this. You're looking at a candidate who used to hold three or four or five news conferences a day. I answered every question reporters put to me. I thought that was my responsibility. I was opposed by a Presidentialcandidate who used to hold three or four news conferences a year. Every night, he governed the news in his favor. Every night I watched the news and they would report some controversial issue that they had put to me. I answered my budget. I answered the revenues questions. I went out of my way to give complete detailed answers, and my opponent simply patted dogs and painted picket fences and the press did nothing about it. And I think the press owes some responsibility to make those who duck and run atop doing so. We've got a candidate who won't tell us what he did in Irangate, he wont'te tell us what he did in Panama. But I don't see him being pursued. This creates an environment in which politicians duck and don't pay a price.

MR. MacNeil: David Gergen.

MR. GERGEN: I think that Vice President Mondale was very much a profile in courage in 1984. He did say what he wanted to do if President. I think he spoke up. All I'm suggesting is that the Democrats --

MR. MacNeil: He spoke up and look what happened.

MR. GERGEN: It's a sad thing that -- if we're going to agree on the proposition, a political discourse shouldn't be candid.

MR. MacNeil: We have a few minutes left.

MR. MacNeil: Mr. Vice President, can we come back to the speech Jesee Jackson has got to make tonight. Are there dangers for the party and the forthcoming campaign in this speech tonight, Mark Shields?

MR. SHIELDS: Are there dangers? No. I think Jesse Jackson is too responsible for the dangers -- I can't see the circumtances under whch it would be dangerous. One thing about Jesse Jackson, Jesse Jackson is playing high stakes poker poiltically beca use if Michael Dukakis wins, Jesse Jackson's own influence and impact poitically is dimished.

MR. MacNeil: Let me come back to the image point. Mr. Dukakis has already discounted the comparisons of the speeches by saying today, "Bentsen and I never got blue ribbons for being great orators, and we'll never reach the standard that Ann Richards reached last night", the keynoter, "and Jesse Jackson." Is there a danger of the defeated candidate overwhelming just in terms of his ability to articulate the mission the candidate himself, David Gergen?

MR. GERGEN: I don't think people expect the same kind of speech from Gov. Dukakis. They really want to know who this man is. And I think it's a totally different kind of opportunity for him. Yes, if he were following immediate after, it would be more difficult. I think the real issue here now is whether --Jesse Jackson can do Michael Dukakis a great favor tonight if he talks in inspirational terms of how blacks and whites can work together and how he and Governor Dukakis have worked it out -- but if he goes beyond that to continue essentially a permanent campaign of his own, for his own agenda, I think he does him a great disservice.

MR. CURRY: I don't think it's a question at all. Jesse, first of all he's not going to define it's important in terms of black or white. He's going to say we have the liberal wing of the party, we have the conservative wing, we need every wing to put this thing together. He's going to speak inspirationally. He's going to say, talk about beating the odds, and certainly when the Democrats have lost four out of the last five elections, that's going against the odds, and he is going to say we are part of a great party and let's go ahead and meet the challenge. That's the kind of tone you can expect tonight from Jesse.

MR. SHIELDS: But, Robin, Michael Dukakis does face a risk. I mean, I can remember in 1984 at the San Francisco Convention and Mario Cuomo spoke the first night, Jesse Jackson spoke the second, and poor Gary Hart had to speak the third night, and I remember John Burton, former Congressman from San Francisco, saying he ought to ask unanimous consent just to have his remarks printed in the record rather than to appear.

MR. MacNeil: Can we ask another gentlemen who spoke in 1984. Vice President Mondale, how did you feel about the effectiveness of Mr. Jackson as a speaker and what that did to you?

MR. MONDALE: I think that convention was the best thing that happened in the campaign. It's the only time during the campaign that we could afford to take polls every night. We started the convention about 15 points behind and we ended the convention about 2 points ahead. I don't think there's ever been a more successful convention. And it was the keynote of Gov. Cuomo, the inspiring message of Jesse Jackson, and I think the commitment of Gary Hart, and the selection of Geraldine Ferarro, and then a wonderful speech by the Presidential nominee that did it.

MR. MacNeil: Well, Mr. Mondale, thank you very much for joining us this evening. Mark Shields, David Gergen, and George Curry, thank you.

MR. LEHRER: Finally tonight some observations about what having a national political convention going on can do to the psyche of an otherwise normal city. They are the observations of our essayist, Roger Mudd. ROGER MUDD ESSAY - HOST CITY

ROGER MUDD: If you want to give a city the heeby jeebies, especially a city that's already anxious about is image, try having a Presidential nominating convention for a whole week. The fact is Atlanta probably cares more about what people think of it than any other big city in the country. Atlanta, they say, did not adopt boosterism, Atlanta invented boosterism, and if Rhet Butler was the city's original booster, then Mayor Andrew Young is its current one. [Atlanta Chamber of Commerce Commercial]

MR. MUDD: Atlanta is spending about $2 1/2 billion to make everything perfect, not that it so much likes the media as it wants to like what the media says. It welcomed the press to town on Saturday night with a massive open bar, two bar, laser beamed, robot happy party. The downtown is spotless. The city has strung up 400 festive banners. It has lined the streets with concrete planters and filled them with begonias and geraniums and petunias. it has planted 83 young willow oaks along the main walking street to the convention hall. It has steam cleaned the sidewalks in Woodruff Park, it has restained its benches. It has removed all evidence that Atlanta's downtown pigeons have been meeting for years on this particular statute. It has temporarily relocated 16 of the city's homeless from under the Techwood Viaduct and put them up in apartments for 30 days. The city says the Secret Service made them do it. One hotel has even installed a blow dry salon for the convenience of the media, male and female. In addition, the local Chamber of Commerce, which calls Atlanta a city to busy to hate, has put out a highly produced promotional videotape that likens the city to a Phoenix. [Videotape Clipping]

MR. MUDD: Is Atlanta unnecessarily worried about its image? Does all that stroking, all that care and feeding of the press really matter? Probably not. With the exception of 20 years ago in Chicago, 98 percent of what the media writes and says is about the political story and not about local civility or begonias or pigeon droppings. But nobody really can blame Atlanta for trying. After all, when company comes, you want your place to look nice. Besides, as the town boosters say here, it's a good investment. RECAP

MR. MacNeil: Once again the main points in today's news, in Atlanta, the Democrats prepared to adopt the briefest platform in many years after Dukakis forces compromised away some Jackson planks and defeated two others after floor debates, both by two to one margins. The big moment of the convention comes later tonight when Jesse Jackson mounts the podium for the speech that will crown his Presidential efforts. In other news, the Justice Department has begun an internal investigation on whether retiring Attorney General Edwin Meese violated the Department's ethical standards, Iran and Iraq clashed in the air, despite Iran's agreement to a UN cease-fire resolution. Good night, Jim.

MR. LEHRER: Good night, Robin. We'll see you tomorrow night from Atlanta. I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank you and good night.