The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

INTRO

ROBERT MacNEIL: Good evening. The U.S. and Japan tackle trade problems as America records the worst trade balance ever. We have a special report on how Japan views U.S. reluctance to sell some high technology. From Mexico City, Charlayne Hunter-Gault has an exclusive interview with President De La Madrid, critical of U.S. policy in Central America. And, from Argentina, a documentary report on the efforts to discover and deal with the truth about "the disappeared ones." Jim Lehrer is off; Judy Woodruff is in Washington.Judy?

JUDY WOODRUFF: Also tonight President Reagan insists he is sincere about wanting to lower the deficit as some Democratic mayors accuse him of painting too rosy a picture in his State of the Union speech. And some Democratic congressmen unveil plans to send out truth squads to follow him around. And we get an earful about the hottest education issue these days, a debate between a governor who wants teachers to take tests and a spokesman for the teachers who says they don't want to.Trading High Tech

MacNEIL: The United States racked up the worst trade balance in history last year. The government said today that the deficit in trade was a record $69 1/2 billion, meaning that Americans bought that much more from foreign countries than they sold. The poor trading performance is blamed first on the high value of the U.S. dollar, which makes U.S. exports expensive and foreign imports cheaper. The other factor is that economic recovery is slower in other countries, resulting in brisk American purchases but lagging sales overseas. Almost a third of the huge deficit -- $21 billion -- resulted from trade with Japan. Coincidentally, Japan's foreign minister, Shintaro Abe, was in Washington for talks on resolving trade and economic difficulties. He met President Reagan, then emerged with Vice President Bush to talk with reporters outside the White House.

SHINTARO ABE, Japanese Foreign Minister [through translator]: Well, our position is that the Japan-U.S. relationship is the most important bilateral relationship in the world, and in order to further our relationship it is important to have frank exchange of views on these matters.

Vice President GEORGE BUSH: I'm afraid -- wait just a minute. I'm afraid we have to go, but let me just say that, one, these are very important meetings. Secretary Shultz consulted on a wide array of bilateral and international issues that transcended the trade issues, and there will be other meetings between Cabinet officers -- the Japanese ministers and our Cabinet officers. And we are optimistic that progress can be achieved.

MacNEIL: According to a senior State Department official, Japan and the United States are expected to sign a new trade agreement next week extending the sale of American telecommunications equipment to Japan. Details were worked out during negotiations in Japan to improve the access of U.S. high technology into the lucrative Japanese telecommunications market. But the officials said progress had yet to be made on the parallel question of access for U.S. satellite and other high technology information to Japan. We now have a report on the Japanese view of these issues. It was made on special assignment for us by Taro Kimura, chief correspondent of NHK, Japan's public television.

TARO KIMURA, Japanese Broadcasting Corp. [January 23rd; voice-over satellite launch countdown]: The world's first standard broadcasting satellite was launched successfully. This is like an Apollo project for Japanese, which makes the Japanese people swell with pride. But if they examine the satellite itself closely they may not feel so patriotic after all. Actually it was made jointly by a Japan-U.S. scheme and was assembled in Pennsylvania. Seventy percent of its components were made in the U.S.A. The same can be said of the rocket -- the three-stage M-2 rocket is a modification of the McDonnell Douglas Delta rocket. Japan bought the license to build the launcher, but again, 70% of the parts, including the most essential guidance system, are U.S.-made. Seventy percent of the price tag of both the satellite and the rocket, roughly $175 million, was paid to the U.S.A. Not a bad deal at a time when the huge trade imbalance between Japan and the United States is a hot issue.

At least that was what the Japanese thought. The Americans didn't. At the recent meeting [January 23rd] of the U.S.-Japan Trade Committee, the American members demanded Japan buy from the United States the whole satellite, not just the components, the next time Japan launches a communications satellite. Undersecretary of Commerce Lionel Ulmer was in Japan, too, meeting with the minister of international trade and industry. He requested that Americans be included on the board that advises the Japanese ministry on such issues as the development of new super computers. This request was politely turned down, of course. Only Japanese serve on the board.

[demonstration of translating computer]

Even with the aid of sophisticated translation computer, communications between Japan and America are not always clear. In fact, it's a high-tech computer like this one which listens and speaks. That may become the source of friction between the two allies. Both Japan and the United States are working hard to develop the next generation of computers, which not only calculate but also think. They will be the ultimate export product, and many believe that the first country to manufacture them will be able to dominate the world market for advanced technology. Japanese officials believe that the conflict between the two nations will intensify as the new generation computer race accelerates.

Defense technology is another field where friction is anticipated. Reports from the United States indicate that there are concerns among the people in the U.S. defense industry that Japan would buy licenses only and not the end product. They are worried that the Japanese will get the know-how of advanced defense technology and eventually surpass them. The Japanese fear that the Americans may not be tolerant to buy licenses instead of end product.

To cope with the trade friction with the United States, the Japanese government held a special Cabinet meeting and, with the outcome of this meeting in his attache case, the Japanese foreign minister, Mr. Abe, is in Washington. Together with the agricultural problem, the satellite and other advanced technology trade problem is the central subject of his talks with the U.S. officials.

[on camera] Leaving all these problems beneath, the 70% American-made satellite is orbiting as scheduled and, after three months of testing, it will start transmitting TV programs from space to the entire Japanese archipelago. The broadcast can be received by a simple backyard dish antenna like this.

By the way, the Fallon Islands, where the first broadcasting satellite was launched, is also the first place where the gun or the musket was introduced to Japan. A blacksmith on the island paid 2,000 gold coins to a portuguese sailor for the gun. He also gave his beloved daughter to the sailor in order to get the secret of most advanced technology of the time -- the musket. Japanses officials sometimes wonder if they have to pay so dearly for American high tech.

This is Taro Kimura in Tokyo.

MacNEIL: Japan's robot industry announced today that it expected to increase production this year by about 25%, turning out 30,000 new robots in 1984. Japan already has in operation about 60% of the world's robots with about 20% in the United States and 20% in Europe.

Judy?

WOODRUFF: President Reagan insisted today that there was no political trickery involved in his proposal for a bipartisan effort to cut down the federal budget deficit. At a breakfast meeting with Republican members of Congress the President said he was serious about negotiating a down payment on the deficit.

Pres. RONALD REAGAN: This is not a political posturing, as some have suggested. I'm not ruling anything out as beyond the bounds of legitimate debate. But I do think that we should try to concentrate on the less contentious issues. If we all focus on what's doable, we can get something done for the American people. It'll mean more hard work, but I believe it'll be worth it -- for our party and, more importantly, for America.

WOODRUFF: Some Democrats have speculated that the plan may be a trap and that the President may have no intention of looking seriously at either tax increases or cuts in the defense budget. But Mr. Reagan said today that he was not ruling anything out as beyond the limits of legitimate debate.

The President was criticized by a couple of mayors today. The U.S. Conference of Mayors wrapped up a series of meetings in Washington, but before they left town two of the leading Democratic mayors took issue with Mr. Reagan's State of the Union remark that America is on the way back.

ERNEST MORIAL, (D) Mayor of New Orleans: I guess the President is dealing with some sort of a quantitative assessment when he says that the nation is back. Our indications are that the nation is not back. It's a matter of bringing the nation forward, in our opinion, and then you have to deal at some point in time -- there has to be some reference point, I think, if you're going to measure a situation quantitatively.

RICHARD FULTON, (D) Mayor of Nashville: We also know that there are homeless people, there are hungry people, that needs are going unmet. We all welcome the economic recovery that we are presently having in some areas of the country, but it is not widespread. The cities of America are in every -- all 50 states and different regions are affected in different ways.

WOODRUFF: Another group of Democrats called reporters in today to give out their political report card on President Reagan and, not surprisingly, they didn't give him very high marks. Congressman Tony Coehlo, chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, released a study of the Reagan record and accused the President to breaking half of the promises he made in 1980. Prominent among them was the promise to balance the federal budget by 1983. Coehlo said the Democrats will form so-called "truth squads" to shadow the President during the 1984 campaign.

Rep. TONY COEHLO, (D) California: We will warn voters if he can get elected with this kind of record there is no telling what he would do in a second term when re-election is not a factor. At the same time, we will be watching the President travel across this country in the months ahead and make his usual distortions. I want you to know that we will travel ahead of him on occasion in order to keep the record straight.

WOODRUFF: This move by the Democrats was timed to come just two days before the President makes his expected re-election announcement. Robin? De la Madrid Interview

MacNEIL: More than 600 international banks today formally lent Brazil $6 1/2 billion to keep the world's biggest debtor solvent for the rest of the year. Bankers said it was the largest single credit ever given to one country. Brazil owes other countries, including the United States, more than $90 billion and has fallen behind in payments. The rescue package was arranged last September, but it took four months of hard selling to bring the last banks into the deal. Only yesterday Citibank, the American bank that heads the loan consortium, and Brazil announced that the deal was complete. And it was signed today in new York. Bankers said they had no choice but to lend Brazil more to avoid a crisis in international banking if Brazil had defaulted.

Tonight we examine the views of another Latin American country, Mexico, that is also a major debtor nation. Besides coping with an acute economic crisis, Mexico's new president, De La Madrid, has been maintaining a Central American policy that is in clear disagreement with President Reagan's. But since the U.S. government began seeking greater military aid for El Salvador, and since the Kissinger Commission reported, President De La Madrid has been silent. Yesterday, Charlayne Hunter-Gault talked with him in Mexico City.

CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: In our interview President De La Madrid ended his silence on the Kissinger Commission report, and refused to endorse the full report. He singled out for specific criticism its military aid proposals. Despite that, he played down differences between the two countries, preferring instead to emphasize improving relations. But deep divisions of opinion do remain.

[voice-over] When Mexican President De La Madrid and President Reagan met last August, the Mexican leader said problems between the two countries were multiplying faster than solutions. One major area of disagreement was Central America. De La Madrid criticized U.S. support for the anti-Sandinista rebels, the so-called contras. He opposed a military solution in Nicaragua, preferring that Mexico, Venezuela, Panama and Colombia, known as the Contadora Group, take the lead in regional peace talks. Earlier this month, all of the countries in the region did approve a preliminary Contadora peace plan.

The Reagan administration position, reaffirmed by the recent Kissinger Commission report, is that expanding Soviet influence in Central America is a direct threat to Mexico and the United States. In the past, Mexico has discounted that threat, pointing to its good relations with Cuba and Nicaragua, and its more than half-century of political stability. Mexico's recent economic crisis had alarmed the U.S. too, but in his first year in office, President De La Madrid eased U.S. fears, imposing a strict austerity program that has earned praise from the international banking community.

De La Madrid slashed government spending, cutting the budget deficit in half.Inflation dropped from 100 to 80 percent. He persuaded foreign creditors to give Mexico more time to repay its staggering $83-billion debt, and secured new loans to make interest payments. So far, despite hardships, Mexico's 75 million citizens have gone along with the national belt-tightening.

In my interview with President De La Madrid in his Mexico City residence I asked him about these issues, starting with his reaction to the Kissinger report.

MIGUEL DE LA MADRID, President of Mexico [through interpreter]: I believe that in recent months we have come closer with similarities -- the American vision of things and the Mexican vision of Central America. Mexico believes that the problems in Central America are basically the result of its economic and social conditions. We Mexicans feel that we must avoid, therefore, this situation in Central America to turn into an additional pretext for the confrontation between the United States and the socialist bloc. We think that the existing conflicts at present between countries must be solved through peaceful negotiation, through diplomatic negotiation. Thus, the Contadora group and, even though at a slow pace, in my opinion, at a sure pace, we have been bringing the position of the various countries closer together. I feel that the worst thing that can happen in Central America is violence, even greater violence unleashed than the one we have now. Any military intervention, in my opinion, would make the problem worse and could prolong for a long time a situation of violence and war among countries. And this, for Mexico and for its neighbors, too.

HUNTER-GAULT: In other words, you would endorse basically the recommendations of the Kissinger Commission then?

Pres. DE LA MADRID: I am afraid that I cannot support or endorse the full spirit of the Kissinger Commission because, even though it does recognize the economic and social situation, still, in my opinion, it places exaggerated emphasis in the possibility of military aid.

HUNTER-GAULT: Well, what impact do you think that, if the military aid package goes through, what impact will it have, particularly in El Salvador?

Pres. DE LA MADRID: The military aid that has been given the Salvadoran government has not been effective. The military aid that has been given the government and the army of El Salvador has been a source of arms for the guerrillas themselves. I believe that it has been proven that the theses of internal negotiation among the various political forces is the most realistic approach. The increase of military aid in El Salvador shall continue to be a focus of violence, not only for El Salvador, but for all the Central American area.

HUNTER-GAULT: The commission also left open the door for continuing U.S. aid to the contras, the anti-Sandinista forces operating out of Honduras. How does that square with the Contadora peace efforts, do you think?

Pres. DE LA MADRID: We think that subversion by governments outside the area must not be fostered in any of the countries. to do so is an invitation to a continuous climate of violence. It seems to me that we have to avoid any intervention that will produce greater controversies between the United States, Central America and Latin America. Nonintervention is the basic rule of international law in the American continent.

HUNTER-GAULT: So are you saying that the United States should stop giving aid to the contras?

Pres. DE LA MADRID: We have made the statement that no power outside the area, whether it be the United States, whether it be Cuba, whether itbe the Soviet Union, whether it be any other country, should give help to groups that encourage rebellion in the Central American countries.

HUNTER-GAULT: So that to the extent that the United States continues to back the contras, then you would say that the United States is itself being an obstacle to the peace that you and the other Contadora members seek?

Pres. DE LA MADRID: Yes, this is so.

HUNTER-GAULT: Mr. President, the United States has remained skeptical of Nicaraguan efforts towards reconciliation. Do you think that their skepticism is justified?

Pres. DE LA MADRID: My position is that it is all very easy to put the good faith of anyone to the test when there is a conflic. If Nicaraguan people have said that they're willing to negotiate, why not give them a chance to prove their good faith? What is of interest to us is that we've got [unintelligible] the same as any other country of the Central American area.Make the decision to make serious efforts in favor of peace in the region to avoid interference of cold war in the Central American area and to establish democracy as they conceive it.

MacNEIL: In El Salvador today a right-wing member of the Constituent Assembly became the latest victim of political assassination. Ricardo Arnoldo Pohl, a deputy from the far-right Republican Nationalist Alliance Party, was shot by gunmen who ambushed his car on a street in San Salvador.

Meanwhile, the American woman who was killed yesterday on a main highway in Eastern El Salvador was identified as Linda Louise Cancel, of Culver City, California. She was driving across El Salvador with her husband and two small children in a converted bus to make a new home in Costa Rica when they were shot at. A U.S. Embassy spokesman said authorities did not know whether rebel or government soldires were responsible. The embassy said she had never contacted them, or they would have advised her that there was combat in the area.

[Video postcard -- Dangling Rock Canyon, Utah]

WOODRUFF: The pesticide EDB is back in the headlines. Yesterday, the state of California's Health Services Department said that two Duncan Hines muffin mixes were being voluntarily recalled because they contained traces of the cancer-causing substance. But today Procter and Gamble, which is Duncan Hines' parent company, denied that there had been a recall and insisted that its product did not contain harmful levels of ethylene dibromide. Procter and Gamble claimed that the traces would be removed in the baking process. Later, state officials said they thought they had had a recall agreement, but since they didn't they would have to decide what step to take next. They did say there was no immediate danger from eating the muffins.

Meanwhile, here in Washington, the Environmental Protection Agency and the U.S. Department of Agriculture couldn't agree on EDB today either. At a Senate hearing an EPA official said the pesticide should be phased out.

JOHN MOORE, Environmental Protection Agency: EPA believes that the appropriate long-term solution for EDB is to eliminate public exposure by ending its pesticidal uses. Regulatory actions were initiated in September to do just that. The agency is now gathering the information needed to assess current levels of public exposure and to determine what actions are appropriate to insure the public health is protected during the time needed to eliminate the use of EDB and its residues from the food supply.

WOODRUFF: But an Agriculture Department official charged that farmers should be able to use EDB on grain crops until a safe substitute is found.

In California a wind storm of the type called Santa Ana, a hot, dry blast of air from the desert, whipped up brush fires in the outskirts of Los Angeles and set off disasters that left three people dead. The hot wind blew through the tinder-dry brush at the force of a hurricane, fanning a smouldering fire into an inferno over one area of more than 600 acres. Dozens of people fled from their homes before flames that at times leaped 50 feet into the air. Three people were killed in various accidents, and at least 20 homes were burned. Many of them were expensive houses valued from a quarter of a million to half a million dollars. And half a million other homes went without electricity during those two days of firestorms.

And, in the Pacific Northwest, several hundred people have been forced to leave their homes because of flooding caused by heavy rains and runoff from water from melting snow. In addition, winds of up to 90 miles an hour gusted through the eastern slopes of the Rocky Mountains and parts of Montana.

Robin? Arkansas Teacher Tests

MacNEIL: Our next major story comes from our education beat. The rhetoric of education reform has been thick and heavy for the past year in Washington, but it's actually at the local and state level where most of the action is taking place.Few places have been more active than the state of Arkansas, and there were developments there today.

Late last year, the state legislature passed a comprehensive educational reform package, the brainchild of Democratic Governor Bill Clinton.Not everyone is happy with his brand of reform. The union representing many of the teachers objected strenuously to a provision requiring all teachers, even veteran teachers, to pass a standardized certification test.

[voice-over] The Arkansas teachers union appealed to the National Education Association, whose president, Mary Hatwood Futrell, called the law "one of the most punitive, anti-teacher pieces of legislation ever voted into law in this nation." Earlier this week Futrell sent a committee of NEA teachers to Arkansas to meet with teachers and legislators, but the real showdown came this morning with Governor Clinton, who responded to charges that he was playing politics with the education issue.

Gov. BILL CLINTON, (D) Arkansas: I don't think that's political at all. I think that it's nothing but right, and I think that the children -- nobody -- the only argument that has been made to me, that the children will suffer from this legislation -- there is only one argument, and that is that the legislation has depressed the teachers and put them in a bad frame of mind, and therefore they won't be able to function in the classroom. Otherwise, it has to be good for the children.

MacNEIL [voice-over]: The controversy began last September when Governor Clinton went on statewide television to announce his education proposals.

Gov. CLINTON [September 19, 1983]: Like it or not, an awful lot of people out there believe that there are many incompetent teachers in the classroom. If we're going to put a lot of new money into education, if we're going to raise teacher pay, we need to clean the air. We need to take an inventory. We need to see where we are.

MacNEIL [voice-over]: There was little disagreement that Arkansas was in serious need of reform. One article called it the "Dogpatch" of the nation's school systems, with many "tiny, rundown schoolhouses" run by "poorly financed districts," and "some of the lowest-paidteachers in the country." The Clinton reform package called for higher teacher salaries to be paid for by a 1" sales tax, the first such rise in 26 years. For students the class day was lengthened, and standardized tests were mandatory.While they cheered the greater attention and higher pay, teachers rebelled at the requirement that they be tested in order to be certified. [on camera] Although they don't have to take the standardized test until next year, the Arkansas teachers are organizing now to have the law overturned. Judy?

WOODRUFF: To pick up the story from there we have joining us tonight from Little Rock both Governor Clinton and Peggy Nabors, who is president of the Arkansas Education Association. Ms. Nabors, first of all, what do you have against teachers being tested? Is there a fear that they couldn't pass the test?

PEGGY NABORS: On the contrary, no. We don't fear that they cannot pass the test, but before I completely answer the question, let me simply respond and put the interview in perspective by making two statements about Arkansas teachers. Arkansas teachers are more concerned, perhaps, than anyone else in the state about basic skills and what goes on in the classroom. This is their chosen profession, and they want to do what is best for the students of Arkansas. Secondly, the students in Arkansas score at or near the national average in achievement test scores, even though the teachers are the lowest-paid teachers in the nation and we have been at the bottom in educational funding -- per-pupil expenditures in the nation. The reason that teachers oppose the test is because they realize that it is a copout, that it will not do what it is intended to do. They want real reform in teacher preparation and teacher education and something that will make a difference in the classrooms not only tomorrow but in 20 years from now.

WOODRUFF: Governor Clinton --

Ms. NABORS: We can't --

WOODRUFF: I was just going to ask Governor Clinton, if we might interrupt there, how do you respond to that?

Gov. CLINTON: Well, I don't think it is a copout. I think the teaching profession needs this test.We already test incoming teachers in our state under legislation which was passed during my previous term as governor, and I have proposed that we take an inventory of those teachers, and many of them who have never been tested before, to identify what I believe is a small but not insignificant number of teachers who should be required to improve their basic skills if they're going to continue in the classroom.The test is not designed to prove whether a teacher is competent or not, but whether a teacher has the basic skills necessary to be a competent teacher.

WOODRUFF: But let me --

Gov. CLINTON: I think the test will do that.

WOODRUFF: But let me understand. This one test now will be make-or-break for these teachers. If they don't pass this one test, then that could determine whether they continue in their career or not. Is that right?

Gov. CLINTON: Well, that's correct, but let me explain how the law works. The test will be given in the 1984-85 school year, and then all the teachers who do not make an appropriate score will be required to undertake specific plans to improve their basic skills and may take the test again more than once between now and June of 1987. Anybody who doesn't pass the basic skills test by June of 1987 cannot be certified when their certification expires. And, after all, we are talking now about a basic skills test, fundamental. Reading, writing, elemental mathematics. We're not talking about even a sophisticated test in the subject areas in which the teachers are certified. They --

WOODRUFF: Ms. Nabors -- I'm sorry. Ms. Nabors, what do the teachers have to fear from that?

Ms. NABORS: They do not fear the test. They're angry about it because they have already been tested by the colleges and universities from which they graduated, certified by the state of Arkansas and they had successful years of teaching. So that they're angry about the test. They realize it's another bureaucratic snafu which, instead of cleaning the snow off the sidewalk, we're trying to build a bridge over it. We want to have stronger evaluations. We think the evaluation process we already have in place could be toughened and that these things -- there isn't an administrator in this state, I don't believe, that could not recognize whether a teacher possessed basic skills in reading, writing and mathematics by on-the-spot evaluations.

WOODRUFF: Well, are you saying that there are no unqualified teachers in Arkansas?

Ms. NABORS: I wouldn't make that judgment. That, I think, could be made best by an on-the-spot evaluation by administrators. The issue should not be testing. The issue should be, what goes on in the classroom and the quality of that work that goes on in the classroom, and we just feel that the best method of judging the quality of the classroom is an on-the-spot evaluation. Whether it be basic skills, subject matter knowledge or the ability of the teacher to impart that knowledge to the student. Any of those areas.

WOODRUFF: Governor Clinton?

Gov. CLINTON: Well, Judy, if you look at the results that we've had this year and since 1980 in our subject matter tests that we give college seniors before they can go into the classroom, it's obvious that there's social promotion in higher education in our state and throughout the country, just as there is in public education. So the fact that someone has a degree, regrettably, is not a guarantee that the person has adequate basic skills to do the job in the classroom. Secondly, in the last year, my wife and the committee which she chaired, the Quality Education Standards Committee, and I have received thousands of letters and phone calls and other personal encounters from people basically saying, "Look, we'll raise our taxes but we want something better for it, and we want to guarantee that a small number of teachers who don't have the requisite basic skills to do the job should either be required to improve the skills or should be taken out of the classrooms," and the truth is that the evaluation system we have -- and I agree with Ms. Nabors, it needs to be improved and strengthened, but it hasn't worked. And this was simply the only device that we could come up with -- the legislators and I who supported the bill -- to get a quick, comprehensive inventory of where we are on this issue. If you look -- not just Arkansas. Look at what happens in the basic skills results for Florida college seniors, or look what's happened in Houston where the test has been given, a similar one. There is reason to be concerned on this important issue.

WOODRUFF: But Ms. Nabors is making the point that the machinery is already there, in motion, for the teachers to be tested, that the administrators on the scene ought to be able to make a determination about whether the teachers are qualified or not.

Gov. CLINTON: But they haven't, and in many cases they won't. And, you know, the system we've got hasn't worked. And, again I want to say it's not just in our state; it's throughout the country. I agree with Ms. Nabors. We're in accord in believing that we have to upgrade teacher education, programs, teacher certification standards and in-class evaluation of teachers. I agree with that. But in the short run it is obvious in our state, with 370 school districts and widely different quality of administration and evaluation in those districts, that we have problems that have not been addressed and will not be addressed within the existing structure. That is the reason this minimum competency test was passed into law.

WOODRUFF: Would you acknowledge that, would you agree with that, Ms. Nabors?

Ms. NABORS: I hear what the governor is saying, but I would -- I would simply say to that that he had an alternative in a proposal that was much stronger and tougher and would have addressed these issues immediately rather than delaying over a period of time of building some time in the future -- five years, 10 years, maybe forever -- building on the evaluation procedure, and that was to stiffen the requirements. We supported a bill that would stiffen the entry-level requirements of teachers, that would have had testing of teachers at the entry level into the profession prior to certification, would have had continuing education for all teachers, not just those that are assessed as weak, but those who are good as well that need to update their skills. In addition, it would have established state standards for colleges of education. We don't have any state standards for the 16 colleges of education in the state of Arkansas.

WOODRUFF: And you're saying you would have supported that?

Ms. NABORS: We saw that it was introduced and supported it, yes, we certainly did, and the governor opposed it.

WOODRUFF: And, Governor, why is that?

Gov. CLINTON: Well, first of all, let me give you all the facts on that. Their bill, which requires testing of college seniors or would-be teachers, that's been done in the legislation that I supported in 1979, since then. Secondly, they pulled their bill down. It was not defeated. They pulled their bill down after my testing legislation passed. The two were not necessarily in conflict. I preferred a procedure which would require us to set up a committee which I'll appoint in just a few days to study all the teacher evaluation systems in districts in this state and all the state standards in other states before coming up with a comprehensive program. The report will be filed by November. We'll have legislation ready for January of '85. So I haven't put this off a long time.

WOODRUFF: All right --

Gov. CLINTON: Let me say one other thing --

WOODRUFF: Well, we're going to have to wrap up.

Gov. CLINTON: You know what their bill -- here's what their bill said on testing. It said if you get two bad classroom evaluations, you might be required to take a test at the local level unless you don't want to, in which case you can appeal. I hardly think that adequately addressed the problem. If the local people were doing their job, we wouldn't have a problem in the first place.

WOODRUFF: All right, Ms. Nabors, one quick last question. What will you do now, assuming this bill doesn't get repealed and the teachers have to take the test? Will they go along, or will they -- will they stay on the job?

Ms. NABORS: What we're doing right now is trying to educate the public and talk to our -- to the people in the communities where teachers live about the issue about the testing law and try to educate them to seek the repeal of the law. We also have it under legal review, and there'll be some other avenues that we seek.

WOODRUFF: All right, thank you both, Ms. Peggy Nabors and Governor Bill Clinton, for being with us. Robin?

MacNEIL: In Washington the Labor Department reported today that workers whose wages were negotiated by labor unions received average pay raises of only 2.6% in 1983. That was the lowest annual rate ever recorded and well below the inflation rate for the year, which was 3.8%

[Video postcard -- Page, Arizona] Argentina's "Disappeared Ones"

MacNEIL: For our final story tonight we have a penetrating look at Argentina's efforts to come to terms with a terrible reality. Last fall, Argentina ended eight years of military dictatorship by electing a civilian, democratic president, Raul Alfonsin.During the campaign, Alfonsin vowed to punish the military leaders responsible for crimes of mass imprisonment, torture and murder in the name of national security. Tonight we have a documentary report by the BBC on the progress Alfonsin and the Argentine people are making in discovering and dealing with the truth. The reporter is John Simpson.

JOHN SIMPSON, BBC [voice-over]: One day last December, just before the end of military rule, posters started going up all over Buenos Aires commemorating the unknown thousands of victims of Argentina's "dirty war." Men, women, children, whole families that are missing, presumed dead. Now the posters are themselves gradually disappearing. What remains is the problem of reconstructing a society after it's inflicted such violence on itself. And the cruel evidence is only now starting to be unearthed.

JUANITA DE PARGAMENT, mother of "disappeared" son: I want to [unintelligible] because I want that criminals to be judged. I can't explain anything about him. He disappeared because a lot of persons armed, really terribly armed, took him at 2 o'clock in the morning, and he really disappeared so that I as his mother can't explain you anything about it.

SIMPSON [voice-over]: Alberto Pargament disappeared in November, 1976. He was 31 and a consultant psychiatrist. It was a profession that the military, with its often unreconstructed Nazi views, had decided was tainted with Zionism and Marxism. His mother maintains as a matter of principle that her son may one day come back, so she keeps his office exactly as it was the night he went, just in case.

SIMPSON: And these are pictures of him, are they?

Ms. PARGAMENT: All are pictures of him. This is the last one. Five months later he was detained. He disappeared. And he [unintelligible] at the beach.

SIMPSON [voice-over]: For all those whose children have disappeared, the worst thing is not being finally sure, even after all this time.

[interviewing] Do you have any doubt that he's dead now?

Ms. PARGAMENT: Can a mother have some hopes?Some hope that she will someday hear about him. But I am going to petition. If they are going to say, to inform me that he has died, somebody killed him, I want to see justice and because I want to know the name of the man who assassinated him.

SIMPSON [voice-over]: Even under a government dedicated to human rights, it's not yet safe to film this building openly. The naval technical school was Argentina's Auschwitz, an extermination camp where thousands of people, mostly young left-wingers, were tortured and murdered behind these neatly shuttered windows. Virtually all the men who did the torturing and murdering are still at liberty. The only people arrested so far have been a handful of top military men. For once, the complaint is that the small fry have been allowed to go free while only the big fish have been caught.

The most notorious big fish is General Ramon Camps. As Buenos Aires' police chief, he was responsible for perhaps 5,000 deaths. Before his arrest, when this was filmed, Camps was under such mental stress that, when the cameraman moved the lamp on his desk, he threw him out. On the disappearances he took refuge in a familiar defense.

Gen. RAMON CAMPS, former chief of police, Buenos Aires province [through interpreter]: In this whole business I and the forces I commanded operated under orders from the top, from the higher military authorities, and we carried out our duties in a normal way. You know, all the human rights organizations are run by leftists. They never mentioned how evil the struggle of the peoples they are now defending was or how righteous the cause of the Argentine nation was. They know only about 6,000 people disappeared. I've said that before, even to the international press. So, making out, as the human rights organizations do, that there were 30,000 is outrageous and untrue.

SIMPSON [voice-over]: One of General Camps' victims has returned to challenge his assertions -- Jacobo Timerman, a newspaper editor who wrote a book about his experiences. We went with him to search for a clandestine prison where he'd been held, taking the road he had traveled as a prisoner.

JACOBO TIMERMAN, junta victim: Usually you are on the floor, in the back seat on the floor, covered by a blanket. After a time -- for instance, I was one month without washing myself, and they didn't let me go to the bathroom so I had to do my things on myself. So I smelled so bad that nobody wanted to travel with me. So they put me behind and one of them sit in the front seat. When I was alone behind I could take off the blanket for a moment to have fresh air, to look around, just a very few seconds, but in two seconds, if you were all your life in a city, you can recognize a building, a small part of the city. And this is the way I could more or less build in myself an idea of where I was going.

The trees, the sense of the traffic, the noises -- it shouldn't be far from here. It is beginning any moment.Here. Here.

SIMPSON [voice-over]: Timerman's instincts were right. The building was now being done up as a small police station and, by chance, there were only a couple of decorators there with no orders to stop anyone going in. They did try at first.

DECORATORS [subtitled]: You can't go in there.

Mr. TIMERMAN: I was tortured in here. Why should I obey the rules?

DECORATORS: It isn't allowed.

Mr. TIMERMAN: I just want to see the place where I was kept in chains.

DECORATORS: We're only decorators. It's nothing to do with us.

Mr. TIMERMAN: I've got nothing against you. I'm angry at what happened to me.

[with camera] Here were the archives. I was interrogated here. Here was a room for the guardians. In this little room I spent one month. There were two beds, one here and one here, and I was chained to the upper bed. I was chained to the bed. This was where I spent all the time. That was the entrance to the kitchen that they used also as a torture chamber, and they put music on this wall only for the neighbors not to hear the screaming of the people who were tortured. Underground, under the kitchen, were the cells of the people who were kidnapped. I am trying not to feel. I am full of emotions and memories. And it was a terrible time. Terrible time. This was the bathroom and here was a big kitchen, and the killings, the murders, were here in this kitchen. They tortured on the kitchen table while after that they eat, and most of the life -- the everyday life of the guardians were here -- was here in the kitchen.

SIMPSON: And they used to bring people in and torture them in the place where they lived and worked?

Mr. TIMERMAN: Yes, there was two places, the kitchen, where they eat, and the bedroom of the officer. So after the torture they put new blankets and he slept in the same bed. I remember exactly the faces on those officers. I think that this place, that they are rebuilding to present a new face, and probably it's going to be a new police station. I think that the building should be destroyed and dig to see where the underground cells are and perhaps bodies as well.We don't know if we are now stepping on a cemetery.

But I wonder what the people, the neighbors were thinking about that, because it was a permanent coming and going of cars, people on the floor of cars. You cannot hide during three years a thing like that. So the neighbors, I am sure they knew about it, the music at 3, 4 in the morning, the bright light, the guardian with the machine gun. What was the neighbors' idea about what was going on here? Like in Germany. Now they're saying, "We didn't know." This is a terrible place. People suffered in a way you cannot imagine.

SIMPSON [voice-over]: Last October the people of Argentina elected a government with a clear mandate to purge the country of the military's crimes. So far it's record has been mixed. On the one hand, the members of three consecutive military juntas are being called before the central court in Buenos Aires. General Camps, the chief offender in the dirty war, has been arrested. But they'll all be tried by military, not civilian, courts, and a law to allow appeals against light sentences hasn't yet been passed. As for all the other cases of torture and murder, they're being sifted by human rights commissions set up by the president. Today the main witness is Jacobo Timerman, who, surrounded by reporters, is giving evidence about a prisoner who disappeared in the newly discovered clandestine jail. The commission's work isn't going fast, but on the basis of it the government will eventually decide who among the military should be prosecuted.

Bishop JAIME DE NABBARAS, Commission for the Disappeared: They were positive, they were sure they were doing the right thing when they were torturing. They thought that was the absolutely necessary to get rid of all, well, they were -- they saw red everywhere, and anything that sounded like change or more justice, that was Marxism or communism. So they were quite blindfolded, and they still are.

SIMPSON [voice-over]: The evidence of how assiduous the military were in carrying out what they saw as their campaign for Christian, Western values lies in neglected corners of every cemetery in every city in Argentina. The bodies of their victims were brought to places like this at night and listed as NN -- No Name.Here at the San Martin Cemetery on the outskirts of Buenos Aires, the staff knew perfectly well what the bodies were, but it was too dangerous for them to question the secret burials. Even now they were distinctly nervous about showing us where the bodies lay. In this plot there were about 60. The task of digging them up plays an essential part in the cleansing of Argentina from the violence of the recent past. It provides clear, incontrovertible proof of whatreally happened to all the thousands of people who disappeared. But more than that, no one will be able to pretend anymore that they didn't know these things happened.

Once again, the parallels with de-Nazification come out. Just as the Allies brought the German people face to face with the facts of the concentration camps after the end of the war, so the new government here is forcing the Argentine people to face up to what was done.

Another secret grave close by was better kept -- lovingly, almost. It turned out that one of the graveyard workers had lost his own daughter. She, like the people buried here, had disappeared, in all probability never to be found and identified. The graves in San Martin will be dug up shortly, but at the cemetery in Moreno, the neighboring suburb, the process has already begun. The men doing the digging are often the ones who buried the bodies in the first place, but the intervening years have done their work. The bones that come to light are anonymous, unrecognizable, mostly useless as evidence against the murderers. And increasing numbers of people are starting to worry that President Alfonsin may not intend to see to it that the actual murderers, as opposed to the men who gave them the orders, are brought to justice anyway.

The dedication of a monument to 38 prisoners shot in cold blood by the military in 1976. Like Senora de Pargament, few people here would accept President Alfonsin's cautious distinction that only the men who had ordered murders and those who exceeded their orders should be tried, and that those who simply obeyed their orders shouldn't be. The hope, the principle that the guilty should be punished has sustained these people through difficult, sorrowful years. And now that the government they wanted is in power, many of them are worried that the hope will come to nothing.

The government has other concerns than simply dealing out justice. It also wants to survive, and it's afraid that a full-scale Nuremburg trial might goad the military into staging another coup. But at a time like this, few people want to hear about the demands of practical politics. Practical politics won't bring back the disappeared any more than anything else will.

MacNEIL: Today, Jacobo Timerman sued Argentina's former military president, Jorge Videla, for having jailed him for 23 months without trial. The suit also named General Ramon Camps, whom you saw interviewed there, the former police chief who was arrested last week, and General Suarez Mason, who is said to have fled the country.

Judy?

WOODRUFF: Once again, our lead stories tonight:

The United States racks up the worst trade deficit in history, and that deficit is the subject of talks between Japanese and U.S. officials trying to whittle down the imbalance of payments between the two countries. The world's biggest debtor country, Brazil, gets a $6-billion loan to stay solvent for another year.

Mexico's president criticizes the Kissinger Commission report, once again distancing himself from U.S. foreign policy in Central America.

And President Reagan says there are no political tricks in his vow to cut deficits, while Democrats take an opportunity to give the President failing grades.

Good night, Robin.

MacNEIL: Good night, Judy. That's our NewsHour tonight. We will be back on Monday night. I'm Robert MacNeil. Good night.