The MacNeil/Lehrer Report; Tobacco Industry Proiblems

it's been the point this program is made possible in part by grants from public television stations the corporation for public broadcasting exxon corporation and the ford foundation this week good evening robert mcneil was on

vacation and jane alexander's it in into night and the ark welcome shannon anyone can it's very nice to be here on it president carter made a choice today between the differing views of two cabinet member john the government's role and growing tobacco free press secretary jody powell the president said he favored continuing price support loans for tobacco farmers fridays at that new secretary vilsack alfano say they should be eliminated because of the health problems associated with tobacco secretary of agriculture bob durbin responded then that such action would devastate the nation's six hundred thousand tobacco farmers and do nothing to discourage smoking self score one for murder the cow final verbal exchange on today's follow up from the president and now to another episode in what has become a pitched battle between the tobacco industry and the anti smoking forces it's a battle that began in earnest thirteen years ago with a surgeon general's report on smoking and tonight a look at how the fight is going beginning with an update on some other recent skirmish is shannon it's

been weird if you lose a few on both sides every sense for the tobacco industry government price support loans tobacco growers continue and now the figure ads are banned from tv the once obligatory antismoking tv spots have almost disappeared too well the ad budgets for print advertising are up a hundred million dollars to four hundred million annually not surprisingly per capita cigarette sales are up by twenty percent on the underside antismoking forces won a house vote to remove tobacco from the food for peace program though the measure was later defeated by the senate at least one airline eastern agreed to ban smoking in sixty five percent of its fleet and some nonsmokers citizen groups supported by two former surgeons general have petitioned the food and drug administration to regulate cigarettes sales the same way plans to regulate factor the fda has agreed to think about it you were just a night or two

people who stand on opposite sides of the tobacco industry and router assistant to the president of the tobacco institute a washington based largely an information organization and for the anti smoking forces john bands happy is the director of an organization called action on smoking and health properly known as ash ms browner the president's statement today aside there's all this anti tobacco act your industry running scared right now well we're not running scared we are of course i'm concerned about personal freedoms the interference of personal freedom the right flow if you will there are fifty million and helpful griffin the country jam that about forty percent of the adult population and the decision to smoke or not to smoke and the person with the fish and they feel that the fifty million adults who have chosen to flow should be able to indulge in that habit without government intervention of all the recent developments those that china

mention than others which one concern to the most and that and a framework that previously well quite we are concerned about the continuing anti public smoking movement which it of course the most topical third today legislation being enacted around the country for a riveting smoking and have this life and we are going with height of personal behavior legislation five of the bands that you and others in the anti smoking those must feel the mature you're wanting the bow right now that right so i think as cheney said we are winning some and we're losing some i think were doing amazingly well considering that the federal government is taking almost no role in the area and that the major health organizations the cancer society the heart association lung association are not really pressing smoking is down a proportion smokers are down the rights of nonsmokers are being protected in more and more areas yesterday's decision indicates the tobacco industry still has plenty of clout up on the hill and apparently even once what gives you the most or encouragement of all the recent developments i think it's a dramatic increase in the protection

nonsmokers' rights over the past several years since nineteen seventy two when at w first announced that end in cigarette smoke may be hazardous to health we've gotten was through in the majority of states hundreds of cities and counties protecting nonsmokers' rights a movement which has expanded to the airlines trains buses and now and office buildings and so what discourages service rather encourages you are and we wanted it was brought in advance that opportunity go each other on a number of the specific issues involved but for some facts and figures about the tobacco industry american farmers grew about two billion pounds of tobacco last year most of it produced in six southern states americans spent over fourteen billion dollars behind the end result tobacco products an average of two hundred and ninety dollars for smoke the rest were sold overseas with us tobacco export setting a record high of one point five billion dollars in nineteen seventy six one of the enron end result of the government was six point one billion dollars in cigarette excise taxes collected another was sixty six million dollars payout the

credit for the long program as rather what is your reaction first to the caliph opposition an opposition held by others that those of those who want to do away with a farm loan programs well can i think most people are under an impression that cigarette manufacturers benefit from any price support program first of all many people call it a thought so the tobacco growing if not subsidize their invade price support programs which at some three hundred thousand farmers and their family when the leaves goes to market or goes to auction it when it does not reach a pre determined by a private

have been agreed upon among the farmers and the government then delete it caught up or put a five and the government pays the indy five hundred tobacco and then stored and fell at a later time at which time it's so usually for a higher price me memorize as the repeal of the law is needed at the price support programs for tobacco or five has been the most at the latest troubles them and the most expensive program in the enterprise four program you say that you say the industry doesn't of that important is it then to add to that how important is it that they continue to be very important and i continue to get that continued and we will have i'm three hundred thousand farmers and their families and the and implied left or in fear if we increase the welfare rolls around the country today the farmers can take one or two later it sort of the very few acres of crop land devoted to tobacco growing and provide for their family for

an entire year whereas it they had to grow anything else on that very small amount of cropland they would not be able to admit that they could not grow for it sample wheat or corn and be able to exit foreign carriers that it's likely to have problems why shouldn't be eliminated for them first heard far as a typical example of tobacco industry doublespeak they don't benefit from it but without a global industry would collapse there is no cost and yet the government today spend sixty to eighty million dollars the figures are kind of hard to pin down and one where another subsidizing tobacco we had the program she talked about we have ironically food for pete's will we get money toward foreign allies are they in turn can buy tobacco from is the grade his new one sec west that was the audience could confuse it is the only year that the figure four million dollars that was the amount of defaulted loans so i think over the last year that was a bit vague right price arranged over three hundred million dollars had many of which will be repaid with their very nice long read so the end

result along with yemen's united states government you and me including non smokers spending maybe eighty million dollars a year to subsidize a product the kills and disabled there's no reason we can say what the government should be spending that money particularly compared to what we're doing to help people with the problem smoking spend less than two billion dollars a year a million dollars a year either to educate people particularly cares about the health hazards of smoking network to help the nine out of ten american smokers today really would like to quit what can cause they're hot what about all the money that went on that program is that in administering the program a non exploitative not that as youth they to push tobacco in this country and he thought a lot about the fact that the tobacco industry had ever out of business he would be out of a job you talk about the tobacco the tobacco lobby i think you've failed to realize that tobacco or that law being in the country eventually go and tobacco gm and i think you

should realize that i'm very down and you're probably one of the most powerful lobby of in this country and that you had had more anti smoking legislation enacted around the country than anyone else in the country today so you cannot deny that you are also it very very powerful i mean i thank you for the compliment but i failed to say what that has to do about the fact that the end result is we spend the eighty million dollars a year directly or indirectly to sign subsidize a project which is killing me about these six hundred thousand americans you speak about certain more study that probably extensively under his program some of this money would go gradually into retraining those farmers to grow other crops i cannot believe that uno six southern states no other product can be economically grown it is unbelievable no other product to be economically ground and that's a small portion of the land you try to grow wheat corn cotton anything else planned for three acres of land and you

will not be able to make a living they are not that's the diving at the height the politically long support program and the loans are always read fates and usually at a benefit for the government there and had never lost any money on that i'm gradually as one final question when the singer move on i assume that you are very discouraged by the president's position on this is very quiet but not too surprised he is a horses sell the mary comes from strong southern influences and he has strong connections with the tobacco industry sonatas back at them cheri inlet near where you are you think this this particular issue that the law in the congress it was overly phillip that the subsidies are the loan programs to remain in effect and for a while i don't see any reason why they should not he claimed that the entire indictment against the tobacco industry is based on the tenth day so we do not have a cotton effect relationship established between cigarette smoking and ella are you are unconventional with them at the people in the country are down let's go on to

something new to this you just mention and that is anti smoking tight band this iraq and the government knows about smoking and nothing new between eighty ninety five and nineteen twenty one fourteen states banned smoking completely but those laws were later repealed today federal regulations restrict smoking on intercity buses passenger trains and airplanes more than thirty states and several hundred new municipalities have laws either regulating smokers or protecting gun smoke it's a limit smoking in elevators department stores public meeting places and state owned buildings and public service announcements help non smokers to stand up for their right panhandle remained in canton ny nine

professor band that you say that the non smokers have become much more aggressive than they used to be in the pathways that the most certainly have shown i think it's for two reasons first the entire country's become more concerned about air pollution in general we're spending billions of dollars to clean up or outside air and americans are beginning to wonder why what does it do to have clean outdoor air if one goes to the office or a story or a bank or a government office and has to breathe air which is more annoying more irritating and more dangerous than anything you'd encounter in the most dangerous city secondly the evidence is now reasonably clear been accumulating at least since nineteen seventy but cigarette smoke is not just an annoyance and irritation it is a hell as an in cigarette smoke is a serious health hazard for an estimated thirty million people

with a variety of allergies a fever respiratory and other problems and for the majority of non allergic nonsmokers it does cause real physical irritation in the eye a third of the smokers admit sitting near a smoker as annoying well that part of your campaign seems to be going well how about your idea of having bigger fiercer labels on cigarette packages larger warning you think that really does any good to people read those things i don't know how much how effective the warning on the pact has been we're not really very big on a bigger fears a warning where we are however concerned that if you look at the typical cigarette billboards you can even see much less read the health warnings and yet the same kind of advertising glamorizing smoking associating with sex appeal of social ability to get congress the band sigur commercials on the air is the day being seen by kids on building and this is one reason why the ftc has taken to i've accomplished afford to get rid of those unfair deceptive tobacco

billboard where they do not sure well i am sorry i don't have to take issue with them the things that can have that we clearly don't feel that advertising creates new smoker then rick i think create brand loyalty more than a death anything out i think if we had a larger warning why would we need a package for the theater and i think anyone in the field it would have to have been a cave dweller not to have gotten the message from the surgeon general of the day every type of theater at bethel you think the warning morning surgeon general has determined though everyone know that when they pick up that they have to figure out that that they're warning in there but that does not necessarily mean that that warning if you have advertising created only run for friends why is that when the ftc subpoenaed the six tobacco companies to find out what's hidden information they have and their files on effective advertising they refuse to make it available in a major court case you know that if we're thinking of

rights and the legal weed before they don't want to get into that area we fell thirty that the marker did not happen after a right to live out without like to get help that it then we fail that the question about the right than with poker or the non smoker with early entered an independent path now last year and new orleans native to court in which gets dad gordon himself a non smoker that role that if an angry that new orleans area had petitioned the court to prohibit youth of tobacco act than that to bring down claiming that it was a violation of their there were right to have to inhale tobacco smoke in the field trip down below the judge ruled that for the constitution to be broadened to cover thirty measures and looking in public would be to broaden the constitution to measures heretofore unheard of week thirteen feel that a better way to solve the entire public looking controversy would be the youth of common sense and common

courtesy and behalf of all parties involved i just like to mention at that that not agree with that what about the right now chris asked you that so how five of age than archery are clean air shane in law a nonsmoker a smoker does not have a right a smoker has what we call a limited privilege that they're doing is a how big a convenience but also source of pollution and virtually all those legal mandate we have is that your right to swing your first and wear my nose begins her does not have a right to smoke in the best answer to that is not the case in this broader sites which involve constitutional rights but rather recent decision of the new jersey a woman was a worker a bell telephone company she was severely allergic to cigarette smoke she tried all the courtesy and the other things that roberson just know that she's made sick and had to go to the hospital she

walked into court she now has a court injunction by court order there is no smoking in her office in short smoking can be regulated word infringes on the right of nonsmokers to breathe clean air if they do it in private if they do in large areas and separate small you know smoking section no proper when they do it in confined areas it pollutes the air the non smoker breeze he has a right to clean it a meeting ground for you to people how can we meet the needs of both sides in this i really don't understand a lot of the band that the phone to be a lawyer and i think it's a little better understanding of some of the things and the apple there and the government the latent they call the occupational they had a house like that baird a fresh well i meant for indoor pollution it covers mocking on the workplace and i made our bank than i do and then that kind of component that tobacco

world only one of one hundred and they end in a guarantee they'll play the dad drove that what have they were a lovely area if it is then confirmed only one particular off it and one particular bank have been a terrible health radio industry is soaring that there will be more and more court cases if necessary to enforce those rights and will bring it let's move on to another question now the question of what effect all this anti smoking activity on the counter activities actually having on the individual smokers smoking is on the decline but probably not as dramatically slows somewhat expected some are figures here in nineteen sixty six fifty two percent of all men and thirty two percent of the womens smile a nineteen seventy five the figures were down to thirty nine percent for men twenty nine percent for one category the biggest drop is known among male between the ages of twenty one and twenty four down from sixty four percent to smoke the nineteen sixty six forty one percent in nineteen seventy five the greatest

writers ben among teenage girls only twelve percent of them smoke regularly in nineteen sixty eight sixteen percent in nineteen seventy four all ages and sex is included are still nearly sixty million people in the united states whose small advance at thirteen years after the surgeon general from for a lot of people are still smoking was wimberly the police continue to smoke in large part because they can't quit at building a survey taken about a year ago said that nine out of ten smokers would like to quote six out of ten have made a serious attempt to do so the other three out of ten would do so that we're so difficult this this desire to stop as great a tremendous demand for smoking withdrawal clinics program devices and met these people are desperately trying to quit when they can't be secret is they're helpless there has been a dramatic drop in the market are nicotine content of your average cigarette and this perhaps is one of the reasons why consumption is slightly up people chose a lower nicotine cigarettes but then have to smoke more to get the same kick would you agree with that that the industry's and an emphasis on loans along or nicotine and

her series has kept people from quitting tomorrow might otherwise have quit well first i'd like to think that we will know turnip picking favorites are on the market simply because the consumer demand could be customers are asking for them they read manufacturing company are providing them it happens that that the repeal of tar and nicotine death and then to make one felt more about i don't know i don't know whether that's true or not because they want them because they had people like you were trying to gather about it jeremy people into oblivion i do have the kind of fear that well apparently it's working to some degree that i i don't think we will ever be unless we have people like you with the prohibition of mentality where will that offered nothing left but a total prohibition on tobacco is that figure out what you are in your dream or i would be less personal

world africa where concern here that nine out of ten people for whatever reason say i'd like to quit please help me and they have no place really at the moment to go we have asked the food and drug administration to limit the sale of cigarettes to pharmacies largely to protect the kid smoking as you point out is up to the monkey is because kids get cigarettes so easily despite the law yet any and all going to write for a smoke of many cigarettes as though are what is your true what is the industry's during world everybody smoking business up or walk we do not encourage anyone began looking we do not in any way disparage anyone who wants to quit smoking we feel that those who want to know should be able to develop without interference from jam band that from our federal government or anyone else does your position is that that advertising is not an interference in the decision making process for the individual brand loyalty rather than creating his lover if we fairly do not interesting over the country so we think we're

looking at the mattel pesto it should be practiced by adele only we do we strongly recommend that the year that the country did not even confederate until they've reached the age of maturity that probably just a year ago and i don't mean to be argumentative but just from a sound business point of view and on and on more people smoking it doesn't make sense for the tobacco institute we're non commercial we do not in any way encourage anyone to begin cooking the favorite manufacturing company the core of our indifference to fill that arrived at anyone else who had a product to fail and you clearly can't blame him for trying to want to tell them which isn't blowing mainly as deliberately young people with sixties when they also a marriage particular likening the brands at the women's lib movement which is one of the reasons we think why consumption is up so much among young girls and not correspondingly

among young men when young women are aimed at the nsa be liberated show are liberated you are lined up an awful way you know which are well i'll believe that anybody among younger generations particularly female today because the women's liberation we also have increased an alcoholic and johnson among female teenagers an awful lot in this country today i think that's partly because the windows are for women and aids in particular jenna has a final question jan swafford here in washington and i've read that washington is filled with smoke filled rooms either any less of them is demand that since you organize your innovation we think they're very considerably less since nineteen seventy two laws of the bat we estimated about thirty three states hundreds of cities and counties and towns the strongest minnesota clean indoor air act makes a very simple proposition there shall be no smoking except in certain small designated smoking areas and this is also now we accomplished so many offices

were getting calls about once a week we'd like to promote smoking in the office can we do so legally we tell you sure can and we think this movement is growing it's the fastest growing movement in the nonsmokers' rights movement and the thing that has the tobacco industry worried is this is undermining their ads every time that smoking has to go to the back of the plane or put out a cigarette the elevator it's a reminder that smoking is not sexy and sophisticated indeed if you're young i looked around for a gal and you say now only thirty percent of the women spoke many people though many non smokers don't like tickets or whatever with a smoker why that tell them what you're doing but that was your grave that that is undermining you're now a hard night i don't bring down i don't agree that an injury that idea that in any way agree with that i think that people are looking at them because they want milk and i think people will continue to slow the garlic to whether we have people like jam bands that are in the country and i think we're going to continue to love it that a habit they enjoy

writing the nonsmokers' rights movement so hard now oddly action whatsoever to anyone operating lyric that was meant to accommodate the smoker and a non smoker of law at that done on a voluntary basis but we object to it for governmental regulation of our personal behavior you cannot legislate personnel wise <unk> defending sano snout i must master been a legislator lee asked me hey we were out of time and i thank you both for being here and i share and they are a menace from ancient alexander now will be back tomorrow night with a look at how the banking business is is changing and jim were all thank you and goodnight the peak to peak send one dollar to the macneil lehrer report

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