The MacNeil/Lehrer Report; Teenage Unemployment

ROBERT MacNEIL: Good evening. Two days ago, President Reagan told his news conference unemployment may remain stubbornly high for a time. Today's monthly figures bore him out. There was no change in June from the previous month's rate of 9.5% jobless, a rate equaling the highest figure since World War II. Within the overall rate there were changes. For adult men whose jobs tend to be in manufacturing, unemployment reached a record 8.7%. The rate for women went down, reflecting the fact that most women work in the service sectors of the economy. But the most startling figure for June was in the jobless rate for teenagers. It was 22.3% for all teenagers, but 52.6% for black teenagers, the highest ever recorded. And the June figures do not include many youths leaving school and looking for work. The problem is particularly acute in big cities, which are feeling the impact of cuts in federal programs. Tonight, what are government and private business doing about youth unemployment? Jim?

JIM LEHRER: Robin, the fact that unemployment last month was the highest among young people, dramatically so among young black people, will likely draw no bold headlines in the morning. It's too routine, too commonplace. Month after month no matter the fluctuations in other categories, it's always worse for minority youth. Always. As a result, it takes more than the statistics, no matter how dramatic they may be, to catch our attention. It takes something like what happened recently in Chicago.

[voice-over] The city advertised it would take applications for some 1,700 summer jobs, each paying $3.50 an hour. Lines at six job centers around the city began to form at dawn. By midday an estimated 20,000 people, most of them young had turned out. Overwhelmed officials ended up taking applications from all who showed up, dropping the original "first come, first served" idea. The result was confusion, some pushing and shoving, and disappointment.

OFFICIAL [through bullhorn]: Everybody up on the sidewalk. Everybody on the sidewalk.

2nd OFFICIAL: You step around there and go through; you'll get an application. Please.

1st APPLICANT: Are you in any of those lines?

2nd APPLICANT: Yeah, we were up there.

2nd OFFICIAL: Just be calm. Everybody just has to be calm about this whole process.

3rd OFFICIAL: Everyone here will receive an application. Just cooperate with us and we'll speed this thing along.

3rd APPLICANT: This isn't not really the half in this area, you know, the people that are unemployed.

4th APPLICANT: People need jobs. I know I ain't never worked in my life so I'm just out here trying to get a job. Hope that I can fill out an application and get one.

5th APPLICANT: I'll take any job they give me. If they give me -- telling me I can sweep some floors, I will.

MacNEIL: One of the city officials dealing with employment problems in Chicago is Dr. Reginald Brown,a former high school principal, now an administrative assistant to Mayor Jane Byrne. Dr. Brown is executive director of the Mayor's Office of Employment and Training.Dr. Brown, using the various government funds available to you, how many summer jobs can you provide for youths this summer in the city of Chicago?

Dr. REGINALD BROWN: This summer in Chicago we are providing jobs for approximately 24,000 young people. This is contrasted with the 29,000 jobs that we had last summer.

MacNEIL: What happened?

Dr. BROWN: There was a reduction in funding, as you well know, and we have been attempting through various mechanisms this summer to fill the gap between the difference in the funding levels. There are approximately 150,000 eligible youths in the city of Chicago that we could give service to. Traditionally, about 50,000 of those apply. The long lines that we just saw there are an indication of the frustration and the need for funding for this kind of a program.

MacNEIL: But even in previous years, when federal funding was not being cut, a lot of those 150,000 presumably went without jobs in those years too.

Dr. BROWN: That's true. That's true, but there are fewer job opportunities now in the city as a whole, and many of the youngsters who had an opportunity to become employed in the private sector no longer have that opportunity. So the need is increased for the kind of service that we provide to the youngsters in the city of Chicago.

MacNEIL: The Reagan administration puts a lot of emphasis on voluntary help from the private sector. How much is that going to help in Chicago this summer?

Dr. BROWN: Not much, I'm afraid. Those lines that you just saw indicated the response that Mayor Byrne has made to the demonstrated need for jobs on the part of these young people. The 1,700 jobs that were made available by the Mayor came from other federal funding that she made available to, again, fill that gap. We simply see that there is a tremendous need for this kind of job.

MacNEIL: The 24,000 jobs you are filling from federal funds, what kinds of work do they do?

Dr. BROWN: They cut across the entire work spectrum. These are work experience jobs, and work experience that these youngsters gain in these jobs would enhance their employability -- their ability to compete in the marketplace.

MacNEIL: Like what kinds of things?

Dr. BROWN: They work in libraries as aides doing shelving; they work with the police department as police aides -- answering telephones. They work in the school system as tutors; they do janitorial work; they work in the community in painting and refurbishing homes. They work in hospitals as hospital aides.

MacNEIL: These are often described as "make-work" jobs. Is that what they are?

Dr. BROWN: We don't feel that they are make-work jobs. These are jobs where youngsters are working in an area where they will be able to participate and gain skills, either through doing the job under the direction of some professional people, or simply by observing the procedures -- the attitudinal development that is so vital to be successful in the work environment. No, we don't feel that these are make-work jobs. These are educational opportunities for youngsters, and I challenge those critics to come to Chicago to see the successful programs that we have, not only with the young people, but others in the employment and training area here.

MacNEIL: How does the city of Chicago feel about the prospect of having so many thousands of young people around without work to do this summer?

Dr. BROWN: Well, it's a frightening experience to have so many idle youngsters with that kind of time on their hands, and we see it as a much more productive endeavor to provide the work experience activities that we're providing through the mayor's office than to have youngsters spend time idly on the streets, and possibly become involved in some unproductive activities. It's the potential for an increase in the crime rate -- a lot of other negative things that I really don't want to get into or allude to, but we think it'd be much more productive and a lot more cost-beneficial to fund the kind of programs that we have been funding over the last several years. And especially at this time of high unemployment.

MacNEIL: Well, thank you. Jim?

LEHRER: A non-official view from Chicago now from Phil Arendt, a neighborhood leader on the north side of Chicago. He's been involved in community projects of various kinds, from police-citizen liaison to fire prevention and human services advisory councils. He's also with us tonight from Chicago. How bad is the youth unemployment problem in your neighborhood on the north side?

PHIL ARENDT: It's as bad as it possibly can be.

LEHRER: What does that mean?

Mr. ARENDT: Well, the private sector is not in a position to give jobs during the summertime as they have in the past, basically because there are a number of adults competing for the jobs that used to be going to the youth who are out of school during the summer. The programs that the city has funded in the past, either through the department of human services or the offices of the mayor, do not cover the whole problem; they only give us the opportunity to put a small portion of the community to work. Teaching the youth to get a job ethic and a work ethic, as Dr. Brown has said, I think that's one of the most important factors that comes out of the youth employment programs.

LEHRER: Well, what are you folks in your specific neighborhood going to do with these young people this summer? I mean, what are you going to do to keep them busy?

Mr. ARENDT: Well, there are a number of them that are employed in the summer CETA program. There are a number of other organization which you could call the private sector that are going to be taking up some of the slack. There are some other people who have come to our attention who are going to be creating jobs, so to speak, through what we're calling -- almost like a newspaper collection service.

LEHRER: What's that? Explain that to me.

Mr. ARENDT: We have a gentleman who has organized about 200 youths on the north side wherein which he is going to solicit the businessmen in the shopping areas wherein which they will provide a small payment daily for, say, the cleaning of the streets or the cleaning of the gutter, or other small tasks that could be done by these youths. If the proprietor is happy, he punches a little card for them. At the end of the week he picks it up just like a news route. This is one way, but it's only 200 youths, and there probably could be 2,000 employed this way if there was sufficient energies and voluntarism within the community to foster that.

LEHRER: Well, why isn't that there, Mr. Arendt?

Mr. ARENDT: Well, the economy does not make it plausible for the private sector to really jump in as has been claimed by the federal government.

LEHRER: Well, if you add up all the things that you have mentioned -- what jobs have been made available in the private sector, the few jobs that have come either through the mayor's office or the CETA program, or whatever -- give me some feel for how many kids that leaves out who are not going to have anything to do, just in your area.

Mr. ARENDT: My guess would be -- in the area specifically bordered by the area I live and work in, my guess that for every job that is filled in reference to CETA or any of the other private sector, there's probably five youths who could fill another job in that same area.

LEHRER: And what are these kids going to do, Mr. Arendt? Just hang out on the streets?

Mr. ARENDT: They're going to be on the streets; they're going to be, in some cases, youth that did not qualify this year under the CETA program who in the past had worked. They're now going to be out on the street with a lot of idle time, and idle time can produce possibilities of criminal activity. I hate to think of the possibilities. I think we're creating a time bomb.

LEHRER: A time bomb? You believe a time bomb is in place on this?

Mr. ARENDT: I believe it's there, and I think the powder is being added monthly.

LEHRER: Thank you. Robin?

MacNEIL: New York City also confronts very high rates of youth unemployment. Last year a group of business leaders led by David Rockefeller formed the New York City Partnership to create summer jobs for young people. Lee Dunham is on the board of the Partnership. Mr. Dunham owns six McDonald's franchises, mainly in poor minority areas of the city. Mr. Dunham, first of all, do you agree with Mr. Arendt that the economy does not make it plausible -- to use his words -- for the private sector to jump in here?

LEE DUNHAM: No, I do not agree with that.

MacNEIL: Could you expand on that?

Mr. DUNHAM: I think that we need to do certain things from the private sector that we're not doing, that we have not done. I think we must follow the role of IBM. They have built a satellite on Nostrand Avenue and DeKalb Avenue in Brooklyn. And until we put tangible things in our communities, and until the major corporations put tangible satellite kind of situations where people can work in the communities and generate other additional jobs from those satellites -- such as McDonald's. McDonald's is in a community now -- we have six McDonald's. We have approximately 320 employees working. We have proved that we can develop the young people.

MacNEIL: And these are in ghetto areas?

Mr. DUNHAM: In ghetto areas, yes.

MacNEIL: Now, how many extras are you, just in your shops, going to employ for the summer?

Mr. DUNHAM: During the summer we're going to take on an additional 120 employees for the summer.

MacNEIL: And your usual number is 320?

Mr. DUNHAM: No, we hire -- we employ 320 year round. We're going to take on an additional 120.

MacNEIL: What kinds of kids are these?

Mr. DUNHAM: They are hardcore kids.

MacNEIL: What does that mean?

Mr. DUNHAM: Hardcore kids are the kids that -- we have certain kids that have an educational level that can get jobs, by and large, that have good grades in school, come from good families, and those kinds of kids. But there is 10 to 20 percent of the kids out there that don't get a chance at good jobs. At any kind of job. So we will take any kind of kid and try to develop that kid into a manager, into an owner-operator of our McDonald's restaurant.

MacNEIL: Now, your business, though, must be, if not unique, nearly unique, because not many businesses -- am I right? -- could take kids like that and very quickly train them into the machinery of McDonald's. Are there many businesses that could do that if they wanted to?

Mr. DUNHAM: I just think that business has to first makethe commitment. If it makes the commitment and concerns itself about the communities and about the neighborhoods and not so much about bottom line, I think we can make an impact on those areas. We need to set aside certain vehicles to train people in those areas because, as someone alluded to on the program, we have a time bomb ticking out there, and if we try and work at trying to employ these kids, we're going to have less problems on the streets.

MacNEIL: Well, but it's one thing, isn't it, to have a person who is wrapping a McDonald's hamburger by a certain formula that your company has devised, and it's another thing working in a company like IBM that makes computers. It must be more difficult for some companies to hire than it is for yours.

Mr. DUNHAM: Well, I think our company is a very sophisticated company, and I think it has all the resources that any major corporation has. There are a lot of other areas, other than wrapping hamburgers. You may start sweeping floors and go to wrapping hamburgers, but yet and still, we probably have the best marketing thrusts in the country. We do better advertising; we have computers; we have computer systems. We have our marketing.

MacNEIL: You have a lot of other jobs than wrapping hamburgers.

Mr. DUNHAM: We have a lot of other jobs, right, other than wrapping hamburgers.

MacNEIL: Let me ask you this. How is the New York City Partnership idea working?

Mr. DUNHAM: The New York City Partnership is working very well. I think this is the first time, last year when it was started, that it is beginning to make an impact.

MacNEIL: How many jobs will it create for teenagers this summer -- young people this summer?

Mr. DUNHAM: Anywhere from 10,000 to 14,000 people will be hired.

MacNEIL: How many kids need jobs in New York this summer?

Mr. DUNHAM: I should think anywhere around 50,000 kids.

MacNEIL: Well, thank you. Jim?

LEHRER: Finally, a federal government perspective on the youth unemployment problem from Senator Paula Hawkins, Republican of Florida. Senator Hawkins is a member of the Senate Subcommittee on Labor, Employment and Productivity, and co-sponsored a job training bill passed yesterday by the United States Senate. Senator, first of all, is there anything in your bill that would help the situation this summer?

Sen. PAULA HAWKINS: Yes, we're going to -- we're operating currently under the CETA bill that has been discussed previously by a guest on the show that does allow wages to be paid for summer jobs. The new bill -- the Senate 2036 that we passed unanimously in the Senate yesterday -- is a training bill, mostly for training. One of the wonderful things about it, I believe, is that it will be successful. All the conversation I've heard on the show this evening proved that CETA was unsuccessful because it left them without skills. It left those that had been in the program without specific skills. Only 18% of all the CETA money was ever spent on training. The rest was on busy work and dead-end work, etc. And under our new bill, 70% of the money has to be spent on training so that we teach the child how to fish. We just don't give him the fish. And I believe this is the one vital ingredient that we must remember. You've got to train them for life. Number two, the new bill has 51% participation by businesses. As we've heard today, businesses know where the jobs are; businesses know where the openings are, and businesses know where the training should be coming from for the vacancies in the future.

LEHRER: And under the old CETA bill that was not the case?

Sen. HAWKINS: No. We call it private industry councils -- PICs -- and they'll be made up of private businesses. And as the Rockefeller, New York City program has been successful, the McDonald's gentleman, Mr. Dunham, spoke about -- that must be the biggest secret in the tax bill last year is the jobs for tax credit. That's available to anybody. Any businessman out there that's watching your show can go to any department of employment and get a slip of paper, and by filling that out prior to hiring his person 18 to 24, he can get up to a 50% tax credit for hiring this person up to $3,000. Now, that's a great incentive right there to hire someone.

LEHRER: Why don't more of them do it, then?

Sen. HAWKINS: I don't believe they know it. I don't believe that they -- it's just one of the biggest secrets in last year's tax bill. So if we take that, along with what CETA is allowing this summer -- and then we're going to pick our bill up in September, where we will be able to train young people and old people -- I put in elderly people, too, because there are a lot of the elderly people in pockets that need something to do -- and train them in a skill that is needed and necessary, they can walk on up the ladder.

LEHRER: Senator, let's talk about the summer for a moment. You've heard what the three gentlemen have said -- the two men from Chicago and now the gentleman from New York -- and two of them used the term "time bomb" in terms of what's happening to the young people who are unemployed this summer. Do you agree with that? Is that what we're faced with?

Sen. HAWKINS: I think we've had it ticking for a long time, if you recall what happened in Liberty City in Miami, in my home state. You know, they burned the community down because of this very problem. I think the solution there is the solution that's going to have to come to every community, and I hope you don't have to burn a town down to get the attention. But Miami has had more than its share of problems in the last two years, and yet they announced this morning -- the Greater Miami Chamber of Commerce got together and said, "We have to solve this. We can't depend on government to solve all our problems." And they've had a drive in place there now for a few months, and it announced this morning that instead of $5.4 million that they were going to raise to rebuild Liberty City and provide jobs to the young people there, they were able to bring in $6.9 million -- way over budget. So it's when business joins with government. We just can't always be expecting a handout on the corner.

LEHRER: So, finally, you would not support or in any way think that the situation was such that there should be any special federal effort this particular summer above and beyond what's all being done?

Sen. HAWKINS: Oh, we're trying to get more money. Don't misunderstand me. We had $62 million more than the President would approve on the first bill, and we added it back on the second bill, and the battle's not over. When we come back from recess, shows like yours and other statistics that we're going to be able to persuade the President with, I'm sure we're going to get more money for this summer to keep young people, and all people that are looking for work, busy.

LEHRER: Okay, thank you. Robin?

MacNEIL: Mr. Brown, in Chicago, does the city of Chicago agree that the federal emphasis and support should be on training?

Dr. BROWN: No, we don't totally agree with that, but just let me say on the matter of the statistics advanced by Senator Hawkins -- thatcertain members of this administration keep projecting the fact that 18% of the dollars for CETA only went for training -- just isn't really borne out, and these false statistics are simply being thrown out. A recent GAO study indicated the successful job that CETA has done in many, many areas. Most of the problems that we had with CETA were accompanied with the old public service employment that is no longer operative. And I think if you look at the other programs, you'd have to agree with the statistics and with the report of recent studies by GAO and others that it's done a fairly remarkable job.

MacNEIL: Well, Senator Hawkins, when CETA ends at the end of September, and if your bill also goes through the House and is passed, does that mean that there is not going to be a substantial amount of federal money for youth employment, for summer jobs?

Sen. HAWKINS: Summer jobs, yes; there will be money for summer jobs. That's a special program. That's a special problem. You dump 1 1/2 million young people on the market at one time. And in our bill, yes, there will be salaries for summer employment only. But it takes longer than the summer to train someone, so the training program under the new bill is six months to nine months -- however long -- and that does not concentrate on wages. However, we do have a loan fund that I insisted upon putting in there. In certain circumstances people will have to have some income, can take it out of the loan fund. And we take care of transportation costs. We take care of babysitters. I think we're thought of everything possible to try to make this program work so that the mother -- the young mother that's trying to step up that ladder won't always be in a low-income position.

MacNEIL: Mr. Arendt, you were the one who used the phrase "time bomb" first. President Reagan's press spokesman said today, commenting on the unemployment figures: "The President believes that his policies will eventually bring unemployment down, and that there is no need for any quick-fix measures." Do you see the youth unemployment problem as desperate enough, or however you want to characterize it, as requiring some quick fix?

Mr. ARENDT: Quick fix is an interesting term. When you figure that the government pulled the stilts out from under all the programs and took a pair of scissors and cut every program that had the word "neighborhood" in it -- and it was the first things to get cut -- a quick fix at this point would be just a bandaid slapped across a real large sore that I don't think can be fixed with the usual syndrome of throwing money at it. I think there's a need for the government to really take a better look at what the CETA programs did during the summer.I can specifically speak to the fact that the program helped me last year -- not as an individual participating in it, but having 10 youth working for me through the program, which I didn't have the benefit of this year. What they did and what they learned from the community organization that they worked at, I think cannot be replaced.

MacNEIL: Do you think, Mr. Dunham, that the federal government needs to do this to aid this problem as a matter of priority, or do you feel that the private sector can pick up the slack here?

Mr. DUNHAM: I think the federal government could aid us and the communities. Aid us by giving us these tax credits for coming into communities, major corporations coming into communities and helping to develop the community. If they would help us, I think we could do it together.

MacNEIL: Is the tax credit that the Senator mentioned a very significant incentive? I mean, is it helping you with your New York City Partnership to persuade private industry to hire these kids?

Mr. DUNHAM: I think it's helping somewhat, but I think David Rockefeller and the Partnership has made a commitment in conjunction with McDonald's to hire youth -- to work at it and try to correct the conditions that exist. We have pledged -- McDonald's Corporation and myself -- have pledged 1,000 additional jobs this summer for youth. And I think if government would help -- and when I say help is that if they would be the lead, so to speak. And when I say lead -- if they would let some of the government contracts, if it just be making fatigue caps or fatigue uniforms -- some visible, tangible thing that the people can see --

MacNEIL: You mean, some of the money spent on the military would be --

Mr. DUNHAM: Right. In those areas. You put some of those manufacturing plants in there and let the people there manufacture some of those goods as a lead, then maybe a major corporation would follow and put satellites in there and create other additional jobs.

MacNEIL: Dr. Brown, in Chicago, you've had a lot of experience as a high school principal dealing with teenagers. Looking at the long-term future of these kids, what is their failure to get jobs going to do? What permanent impact is it going to have on them?

Mr. BROWN: Well, the failure to get jobs, and the problem that we have in Chicago, is the fact that we don't have a match between the job and the individual with the skill to meet that job. Now, that's probably for a variety of reasons. The perception here in Chicago is that the schools are not turning out those individuals to really make that kind of match. What we would have to do -- and I would agree with the Senator that a partnership between private industry and government to offset that gap there is certainly needed, and we in Chicago are ready with a mechanism to certainly make that match. And so we're going forward with that. We would need the partnership of the private sector that we're talking about. We'd need the cooperation of everyone in the public sector -- the schools, the local government, the community groups that Mr. Arendt here represents -- to do just that. There are some who would say that there are these youngsters and they shouldn't be there, but the fact of the matter is that they are there -- 13,000 youth drop out of the Chicago public schools every year.

MacNEIL: We have to leave it there, Dr. Brown. Sorry to interrupt you. Thank you and Mr. Arendt for joining us from Chicago. Senator Hawkins, thank you for joining us in Washingtion; Mr. Dunham, in New York, thank you. Good night, Jim.

LEHRER: Good night, Robin.

MacNEIL: That's all for tonight. We will be back on Monday night. I'm Robert MacNeil.Good night.