The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

MR. MAC NEIL: Good evening. I'm Robert MacNeil in New York.

MS. WARNER: And I'm Margaret Warner in Washington. After our summary of the news, we go first to a debate over the President's nominee for surgeon general with Senators Dodd and Nickles. Next, we'll explore the latest developments in the World Trade Center bombing case, then Correspondent Tom Bearden reports from the border town of Nogales, Arizona, on illegal immigration, and essayist Roger Rosenblatt tells a story about surviving. NEWS SUMMARY

MR. MAC NEIL: President Clinton today offered renewed support for his nominee for surgeon general. Dr. Henry Foster has come under fire from anti-abortion forces. As an obstetrician-gynecologist, he's acknowledged performing 39 abortions in his 38-year career. Mr. Clinton was asked about the controversy at a White House news conference with visiting German Chancellor Helmut Kohl.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Here's a man who's delivered thousands and thousands and thousands of babies and devoted the rest of his time in the last several years to trying to end the scourge of teen pregnancy and illegitimacy in our country, and thereby to reduce the number of abortions and to solve one of our most profound problems. I have confidence in him. I think he's a good man. I think he'll be a good surgeon general, and I think that that ought to be the issue. I know that those who believe that, that we should abolish the right to choose and make conduct which is now legal criminal will try to seize upon this nomination to negate the work of a man's life and define him cardboard cutout terms, but I think that is wrong.

MR. MAC NEIL: Senate critics of the Foster nomination spoke on Capitol Hill.

SEN. RICHARD LUGAR, [R] Indiana: Why are we fated to go through one of these things after another as the President tries to prove some point, I gather, either politically or sociologically by, by making such a nomination.

SEN. PHIL GRAMM, [R] Texas: I believe we need a surgeon general who can work with everybody in America, and I do not believe that a physician who has as a matter of routine practice performed abortion in America can bring together all elements of our country when that issue is so divisive and when that issue would make it difficult for them to perform their task.

MR. MAC NEIL: We'll have more on the story right after this News Summary. Margaret.

MS. WARNER: Former Vice President Dan Quayle has decided not to run for President in 1996. In a statement, Quayle said he decided not to seek the Republican nomination because he didn't want to disrupt his family with another national campaign. Quayle said he was convinced he could have raised the money he needed to mount a winning effort. Former Senator J. William Fulbright died today of a stroke. He was 89. As chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in the 1960s, the Arkansas Democrat led congressional opposition to the Vietnam War. He also created the Fulbright scholars program which pays for top U.S. students to study abroad and foreign students to study in this country.

MR. MAC NEIL: The alleged mastermind of the World Trade Center bombing pleaded "not guilty" today at an arraignment in New York. Iraqi-born Ramzi Ahmed Yousef was arrested Tuesday in Pakistan and returned to the United States last night under heavy guard. He fled this country shortly after the bombing. Four other men have already received life sentences in the case. The February 1993 blast killed six people and injured more than a thousand. Prosecutors claim Yousef mixed the chemicals for the bomb. We'll have more on this story later in the program.

MS. WARNER: President Clinton said today the U.S. will send humanitarian and refugee aid to the people of Chechnya. Speaking at the news conference was German Chancellor Kohl. Mr. Clinton expressed concern about the continued fighting between Russian forces and rebels in the breakaway region.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Chancellor Kohl and I are in full agreement. The violence there must end, and negotiation must begin. Every day the fighting continues, more innocent civilians fall victim. In response to international appeals, the United States will offer up to $20 million in humanitarian and refugee assistance to alleviate their distress. In our conversations with President Yeltsin, we have both made clear our fears about the corrosive effect the conflict in Chechnya can have on democratic market-oriented reform in the Russian republic. But the conflict has not changed the nature of our interests, namely that Russia's efforts to become a stable democratic nation must succeed.

MS. WARNER: The President said aid to Russia will be maintained only if the country continues on a path of democratic reform.

MR. MAC NEIL: Two crew members from the shuttle Discovery carried out a space walk 240 miles above Earth today. It was meant to test the warmth of space suits in temperatures as low as minus 125 degrees Fahrenheit. NASA cut short the five hour experiment when the two astronauts complained of icy fingers. One of the two men, Bernard Harris, Jr., became the first black astronaut to walk in space. The shuttle crew also recaptured an astronomy satellite they released earlier in the week. Discovery is expected to return to Earth on Saturday. Transportation Sec. Federico Pena announced a new airline safety plan today. It calls for airlines to provide the government with as much data as possible in return for assurances the information will not be used against them. Pena said the data will allow problems to be detected before accidents occur.

MS. WARNER: Rescue workers in Columbia continued to search for survivors today after a major earthquake hit the western part of the country Wednesday. At least 38 people are confirmed dead, and over 200 people are injured. It was the most deadly quake to hit the South American nation in more than 10 years. That's it for the News Summary. Now it's on to a debate over the surgeon general nominee, an update on the World Trade Center bombing, Arizona's illegal immigrant flood, and a Roger Rosenblatt essay. FOCUS - CENTER OF CONTROVERSY

MS. WARNER: First tonight, the battle over President Clinton's nomination for surgeon general. Today the President again declared his support for Dr. Henry Foster. But the battle over Foster's confirmation is looking more and more like an uphill climb for the White House. When President Clinton nominated Dr. Foster last week, he praised the obstetrician-gynecologist from Tennessee for his work in fighting teen pregnancy.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: He has shown us how one person can make a difference. Eight years ago, he developed and directed the "I Have a Future" program at Meharry to help stop teen pregnancy. It has been an unqualified success. I want Dr. Foster to use what he's learned to help America attack the epidemic of teen pregnancies and unmarried pregnancies.

MS. WARNER: The President clearly hoped Foster would focus on teen pregnancy as surgeon general but in a less controversial way than his predecessor, Dr. Joycelyn Elders. Dr. Elders' outspoken views on sex education and her remarks about teaching schoolchildren about masturbation led to her dismissal. But almost immediately after the White House announcement, the Foster nomination was engulfed in a controversy over the number of abortions he has performed in his 38-year career. The Secretary of Health & Human Services, Donna Shalala, first told a Republican Senator that Foster had performed only one abortion. Then last Friday, the White House issued a statement from Dr. Foster saying that he had performed "fewer than a dozen pregnancy terminations." Anti-abortion activists began flooding Capitol Hill with calls opposing his nomination. On Monday, an anti-abortion group released a transcript of a 1978 medical meeting in which a speaker named Foster was quoted as saying, "I have done a lot of amniocentesis and therapeutic abortions, probably near 700." The White House insisted there was an error in the transcript, or that it wasn't Dr. Foster who was quoted. Dr. Foster vehemently denied having made the statement. Last night, Dr. Foster told Nightline's Ted Koppel that he personally abhorred abortion, and he tried to clear up the confusion about how many abortions he had performed.

DR. HENRY FOSTER, U.S. Surgeon General Nominee: [Nightline - ABC News] The day before the President announced his intention to nominate I was asked by someone in the administration had I done abortions, and I said, yes, and the one I remembered most was the woman who had AIDS, and that was essentially the end of that conversation. Shortly thereafter, someone said, have you done more than one abortion, and I casually said, yes. Most physicians have done more -- obstetricians have done more than one abortion. And they said, how many have you done? Washington is a fast town. But I'm becoming a quick study. I should have refused, Mr. Koppel, to answer that question until I knew the exact number.

TED KOPPEL, Nightline: Well, you did better than that. You issued a statement.

DR. HENRY FOSTER: Yes.

TED KOPPEL: A written statement.

DR. HENRY FOSTER: That's what I said. That's when I was asked, how many had I done. I said, I really don't know. They said, was it a hundred? I said, no, I don't think so, and, again, I wish I had refused to stay then, but they said a dozen. I said, yes, perhaps a dozen, maybe less than a dozen. Then there's this furor. Now my credibility is at stake, and I have to do something about it, the veracity of my statements.

TED KOPPEL: Do you have a number now?

DR. HENRY FOSTER: Yes, I do have a number now. For the last three days I have worked furiously at the Georgia W. Hubard Hospital of Meharry Medical College. All of my patient records and all of the operative logs from the time I was at Meharry in 1973 until tonight have revealed that I was listed as the physician of record on 39 of those cases in 38 years in practice and 22 years at Meharry.

MS. WARNER: Members of Congress continue to argue today over the Foster nomination.

SEN. CAROL MOSELEY-BRAUN, [D] Illinois: The fact of the matter is that any physician, particularly any physician who is an OB-GYN specialist, will have been involved with women's reproductive health, and that, it seems to me, is why this attack is so mean- spirited, why this attack is so misdirected, and I hope that based on Dr. Foster's qualifications, based on all of the information being made available to the Senate Committee that will have hearings in this matter that he will have a fair hearing and that we will conclude that, yes, it is all right to have a physician serve as Surgeon General of the United States, and yes, it is all right to have an obstetrician serve as Surgeon General of the United States.

SEN. DAN COATS, [R] Indiana: As a member of the Senate Labor Human Resources Committee, the committee charged with the confirmation hearing and process overseeing Dr. Henry Foster, I am today calling on the President to withdraw his nomination of Henry Foster, Jr., for Surgeon General.

MS. WARNER: But today, President Clinton reaffirmed his support for his nominee.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: I have confidence in him. I think he's a good man. I think he'll be a good surgeon general, and I think that that ought to be the issue.

MS. WARNER: Should Dr. Foster be confirmed as the next surgeon general? We have two views from the Senate. Sen. Don Nickles, a Republican from Oklahoma, is chairman of the Senate Republican Conference. Yesterday he called on President Clinton to withdraw Dr. Foster's nomination. Sen. Christopher Dodd is a Democrat from Connecticut. He also serves as co-chairman of the Democratic National Committee. Welcome, Senators. Sen. Nickles, I don't know if you were able to just hear our excerpt from Nightline, but Dr. Foster says he never had any intention to mislead anyone; he's now done a thorough check; he did 39 abortions. Do you still feel the nomination should be withdrawn?

SEN. DON NICKLES, [R] Oklahoma: Margaret, I do. And I even think -- I listened to some of the comments that were made last night on Nightline, and I think there's still some misleading of the American people. And I think that's unfortunate. It wasn't addressed last night that Dr. Foster has in a transcript where he said he did 700. And, and the White House and others say, well, we don't think that's the same Dr. Foster. If you look at the entire transcript, you can tell that it is. And it really lacks credibility to say, well, this doesn't look like the comments. In his comments, he said he clearly did about 700 abortions. And was it 500? Was it 400? You know, what was the mistake? I think his credibility is very much at issue. And the fact that one day he said he maybe did one, the next day less than twelve. Last night he said 39. There's a transcript that said he did 700. I think the fact that he's done lots of abortions makes his nomination certainly in jeopardy, but I think his lack of credibility is the reason why his nomination is probably causing so much concern to so many people, and I think jeopardizes his future as surgeon general.

MS. WARNER: Sen. Dodd, do you think that Dr. Foster was able to lay any of these credibility issues to rest last night?

SEN. CHRISTOPHER DODD, [D] Connecticut: I think he did. And first of all, he has denied entirely that those comments in that transcript reflect at all any accurate statement of his, of his procedures, of what he'd done in the past. The transcript -- even though he denies it -- talks about amniocentesis and termination of pregnancy. There's a significant difference between those two procedures. That's No. 1. No. 2, Dr. Foster is not a politician. He's not a Senator or Congressman. He's a doctor. And this is a fast town. This man's nomination has been known to most people only for about 72 hours, a little bit more, and already facts are beginning to fly around. Let's give him a chance. Let's not condemn this person. Let's presume that the President has made a good choice. He's got a very distinguished record. Anyone who's ever worked with him or known him has a tremendously high regard for him. He has particularly focused his attention on teen pregnancy. He received an award from President Bush, one of the points of light, for his work in "I Have a Future." It's been recognized around the country as one of the best programs in combatting teen pregnancy in the nation. I think the President deserves credit for identifying a problem and then asking someone who has some specialties in that area to serve. Let's give this man a chance. One of the problems with Washington is we condemn people, we indict them before they've ever really had a chance to lay this out. Let's just be fair about this.

SEN. NICKLES: Margaret.

MS. WARNER: Yes, Sen. Nickles.

SEN. NICKLES: Let me just give you another example. It bothers me. I don't like being misled, and last night Dr. Foster was talking about, he was saying, well, he got this grant that was a suppository that induces abortion. Well, he kind of forgot to mention that when he says the number of abortions, because actually 59 abortions, 55 the drug was successful and caused abortions, and, again, this wasn't in cases of rape or incest or saving the mother's life. So it shows he was misleading again, but not only that, he said, well that was necessary so he could keep accreditation of their medical school. And he did that for 17 years, and he was proud of that. Well, what he didn't mention was a year after he was made dean of the medical school that they lost accreditation in the OB-GYN program. They lost accreditation in their surgical school. They lost accreditation in their pediatrics school. And that was after he was made dean. And it may have been partly his fault --

MS. WARNER: Senator, are you saying -- Sen. Dodd, I actually want to use one of your points to ask Sen. Nickles about, what about Sen. Dodd's point, though, that this man is not well versed in the ways of Washington, that he doesn't -- he's never been in this pressure situation, and he at least deserves a chance to have a hearing and be questioned by Senators such as yourself, do you agree with that, or do you think they should just pull the plug on him now?

SEN. DODD: That's for you, Don.

SEN. NICKLES: I couldn't hear a word you said. I was hoping you were asking Chris a question.

SEN. DODD: I tell you what they said, is they want to know whether or not -- shouldn't he get a hearing, shouldn't he be given a chance? That's the question.

SEN. NICKLES: And I appreciate the question. And I would say in most all cases that's the case, but unfortunately, in this case, there's a real lack of credibility. The surgeon general is primarily a spokesperson for the nation's health, and to have somebody that's admitted to doing, whether it's thirty-nine or hundreds of abortions is the wrong person to have in this position, but the fact that he hasn't been forthright with the truth, he hasn't been candid, it undermines his credibility and frankly, he should, I think he should withdraw himself or the President should withdraw his nomination, find somebody that we can get a consensus, find somebody that will pull this country together, that will speak out on cancer, speak out on health issues, and not be -- not be somebody that's really already had their credibility undermined very significantly by their comments.

SEN. DODD: Let me respond to that, if I may.

MS. WARNER: Yes, go ahead, Senator.

SEN. DODD: First of all, the study done with the suppositories was an FDA-approved in the Bush administration. There were numerous facilities around the country that were engaged in that study. It wasn't just Dr. Foster. That's No. 1. No. 2, they didn't lose their accreditation, as anyone will tell you, the people who are familiar with that whole process. Dr. Foster was in no way responsible for that, in fact, fought it very diligently and shouldn't be indicted for that. No. 3, if there are those who are just going to oppose anyone who has been an OB-GYN on the basis they performed an abortion, then we're excluding half of the thirty-five thousand OB-GYN's in the country from ever holding public office. Now, my friend, Don Nickles, disagrees with abortion, and I respect that, but you can't suggest somehow here because it's a legal procedure that anyone who's been engaged in termination of pregnancies, and Dr. Foster has said repeatedly, said it last night, he abhors abortion as a choice, calls it a failure. This is a person who's advocated abstinence, has been very forthright in those programs. I don't think George Bush would have recognized "I Have a Future" program if he felt he were awarding a highly sought after prize and award to someone who was out there promoting abortion.

MS. WARNER: Sen. Nickles, let me ask you on that point. If this - - if there were not this credibility issue, would you still be opposing Dr. Foster because he's performed any abortions at all?

SEN. NICKLES: I would oppose him. I think --

MS. WARNER: What about Sen. Dodd's point, that these have been perfectly legal in the years that Sen. [Dr.] Foster's been talking about?

SEN. NICKLES: Well, it's perfectly legal. Smoking is perfectly legal, but I'm sure that my colleague, Sen. Dodd, and many others, if you have somebody that was a tobacco executive or something like that, they would be saying, that's not the right person to have as surgeon general. And it's not right --

SEN. DODD: There's a difference between something that all doctors denounce, and that's smoking, and a legal procedure that is used. Even those who are opposed to abortion realize there are circumstances under which it's an appropriate, a proper, and a safe procedure. That's a very, very significant difference.

MS. WARNER: Sen. Nickles, go ahead.

SEN. NICKLES: I'd just mention there's a lot that needs to come out. In the same transcript where Dr. Foster's talking about doing 700 abortions, he's also talking about the desirability of having tests on fetuses to determine whether or not they have sickle cell anemia, and in other words, he wants to be able to find out early so they can abort those fetuses. Now, that is sickening to me. There's thousands, hundreds of thousands of people that have that disease that live into twenties and thirties and forties, they're very productive citizens, and to think that you'd have the surgeon general of the United States, who's been conducting tests, wanting to have tests so they could abort fetuses that have problems or abort fetuses that have sickle cell anemia is bothersome.

MS. WARNER: Well, let me just point out for our viewers that there's still a dispute about the particular transcript, and I don't think any of us are --

SEN. NICKLES: There's not really a dispute. His name is --

SEN. DODD: Sickle cell anemia --

SEN. NICKLES: -- on this transcript, and where they were disavowing it and saying it was a forgery, now I think the White House has said it's a legitimate transcript.

MS. WARNER: Okay. Let me ask Sen. Dodd a slightly different question. Sen. Dodd, a lot of the editorial criticism and even political criticism on this whole issue has centered not on Dr. Foster but on the way the White House handled this. What kind of marks would you give the White House for the way it handled this nomination?

SEN. DODD: I think I'd give them the marks they've given themselves, low marks. But, as I'm sure my colleague would tell you, this isn't the first White House, nor will it be the last, that mishandled a vetting process. They've already said that, and that's got to be improved, whatever steps can be made to correct it, they need to be corrected.

SEN. NICKLES: Margaret --

SEN. DODD: Let me finish. That isn't the issue really here. That's a Washington story, a process question. I can recall on numerous occasions in two previous administrations the same problems arose. The issue is: Should this physician, this highly qualified individual, who by the way is recognized as a path finder on sickle cell anemia work across the country, to suggest somehow that he is insensitive to that disease and insensitive to those problems because of some physician that people have tried to create out of whole cloth here is just unfair to this man. This is Washington at its worst. This man deserves the chance to be heard. He's innocent. My Lord, criminals are innocent until proven guilty. My colleagues here indict these people, indict this individual, even before he's had a chance to make a case, go through the process. The FBI has to do a background check. Let's let that go forward. Let's not turn this into a political football. Here's a qualified person, a distinguished, four-decade career working in the medical fields, highly recognized by people. He deserve to be given a chance and not to be treated as somehow guilty of things of which some people who dislike abortion as a procedure want to knock him out of the box over. That's wrong.

MS. WARNER: Sen. Nickles.

SEN. NICKLES: Margaret, again, I raised the sickle cell anemia. It bothered me when I read the transcript, and he's talking about, well, we'd like to have this test so we could do the studies and find out whether or not the fetuses have sickle cell anemia, so we could abort.

MS. WARNER: With all due respect, you've made that one point. Let me ask you this. Do you think most Republicans, if the President goes ahead and sticks with this nomination and hearings begin, will have an open mind on this, or where do you think the votes are now? Do you have the votes now to deny this nomination?

SEN. NICKLES: I haven't, I haven't done a whip check. I think this nomination is in very, very serious trouble. I don't know whether or not he'll be able to get through. It sounds like the President and Dr. Foster are going to plow ahead and try to push this thing through, but I think he has very, very serious problems, and I question whether or not he can be confirmed.

MS. WARNER: Sen. Dodd, where do you think the votes lie, and are you convinced that the President is going to stick with this?

SEN. DODD: Oh, I believe so, absolutely. He said that again today. I don't know. Most Senators up here on nominations like to have the process work, and so you normally don't get people coming out and making categorical statements that they'll absolutely vote for someone or absolutely vote against them, and that's the way it should be. They like to hear the testimony. They want the FBI to do their background checks. They like to know more information. Most people up here believe that Presidents ought to have their choices, and they reserve judgment until the process is complete. I think it's unfair, and I'll state it again, and wrong to take a highly qualified, recognized expert in his field, dealing with teen pregnancy, and Lord knows with one out of ten teenagers becoming pregnant in our country, it's a worthwhile effort to take someone and put him -- who has some background in a position where they can highlight this issue and come up with some answers. This is not a podiatrist we're talking about dealing with the problem. This is someone who's worked in this field for four decades. That has value. We all ought to applaud that.

MS. WARNER: Do you agree with that, Sen. Nickles, that teen pregnancy is a proper, at least a proper focus for this job? As you may be aware, some people have actually said that's not really even a proper focus for surgeon general.

SEN. NICKLES: Well, it may be one part of a small thing, but I don't really think that -- one, I think the credibility is a big -- I wouldn't -- somebody asked me early on, they said, well, he's really been active with Planned Parenthood, does that mean he automatically should be excluded, and I said, no. I didn't think that should be a disqualifier. But when I find out that we've been misled, the American people have been misled, and I think there's a lot to still be learned as far as the number of abortions. He counted up last night the number that he's done at one particular hospital. What did he do in, in the other practice? What did he do other places? He mentioned private practice. What about public? I think there are lots of questions, but I don't really think the American people want to have somebody that's done lots of abortions, hundreds of abortions, to be surgeon general. Surely, we can find somebody that's qualified. There's thousands of people that are more than qualified to do a super job, and pass the Senate in a minute.

MS. WARNER: Before we go, Sen. Dodd, one final little question: Are you persuaded, are you convinced that the 39 abortions is the last word, is the final word on how many he's performed?

SEN. DODD: No, not necessarily. I want this to go through the entire process. As I say, obviously, we'd prefer to have a clear answer right from the very beginning, but I want to emphasize again this is a legal procedure, this is the law. It's not unlawful or illegal to do this, and to suggest somehow that this ought to be the litmus test I think is unfair. Clearly, it's important to get accurate information when colleagues, senators, and others raise questions as to exactly the number involved. That is important. I don't minimize that. But this ought not to be a litmus test, as Sen. Kassebaum has said, as to whether or not he performed abortions.

MS. WARNER: Thanks, Senators, very much. We'll have to end it there. Robin.

MR. MAC NEIL: Still ahead on the NewsHour, the World Trade Center bombing trial, fighting illegal immigration in Arizona, and a Roger Rosenblatt essay. UPDATE - KEY SUSPECT

MR. MAC NEIL: The World Trade Center bombing is next. The man accused of masterminding the bomb plot is in a New York jail tonight after a two-year, round-the-world chase. At the White House, President Clinton said the arrest was a major step forward in the fight against terrorism. Ramzi Ahmed Yousef was arraigned this morning and pleaded "not guilty." He's charged with 11 counts relating to the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, which killed six people, injured more than a thousand, and caused some five hundred million dollars in damage. It's been called the worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil. Within a week, the FBI had cracked the case. Soon after, they had their suspects in custody, all except one. Prosecutors say Ramzi Ahmed Yousef fled the country shortly after the February 1993 explosion. Four co- conspirators were tried and convicted of the bombing and sentenced last May to 240 years in prison, without a chance of parole. Yousef's arrest came in the midst of an ongoing trial in New York that alleges that the World Trade Center bombing was part of a larger conspiracy. In that case, Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman and ten others are accused of planning a number of bombings and assassinations in the United States designed to force the U.S. to change its Mideast policies. In a surprise move last week, one of the defendants, Siddig Ibrahim Siddig Ali, changed his plea to "guilty" and agreed to cooperate with prosecutors. At his arraignment today, Yousef was charged with being the man who bought and mixed the chemicals to make the bomb. We have three perspectives to update this story: Peg Tyre, reporter for New York Newsday covering the World Trade Center bombing trial, and has co- authored a book on it; Noel Koch was a counterterrorism official at the Pentagon in the Reagan administration and is now president of a security consulting firm; Laurie Mylroie is an author and analyst who's written frequently about Iraq and who is now preparing a book on the World Trade Center bombing. Ms. Mylroie, what is known about this man, Ramzi Ahmed Yousef?

LAURIE MYLROIE, Middle East Analyst: He's a Pakistani Baluch working for Iraqi intelligence. In fact, today, this evening the Boston Globe and Reuters are reporting that Ramzi Yousef said that Iraq was behind the bombing, that Iraq financed the bombing, and gave authority for it. He is not the 27-year-old Pakistani Abdul Boset that people think he is. That's an alias. He's very, very talented. He's a very foxy fellow, which is why he's singing so loud and clear to the Americans right now, and he's an expert at explosives.

MR. MAC NEIL: And he was born where, what is his real nationality?

MS. MYLROIE: His real nationality is Pakistani and Baluch. The Baluch are people who live on the -- in the area of western Pakistan and eastern Iran.

MR. MAC NEIL: Mr. Koch, tell us how he was tracked down and arrested.

NOEL KOCH, Terrorist Consultant: He was -- it's not clear at what point our federal services picked him up. What happened, it appears to be that when the Pope went to the Philippines, the Filipino security services conducted a series of investigations and Yousef is one of the people that fell out of this. I think we knew that Yousef was there at the time. I think we were tracking him at the time. I think we were not prepared at that time to pick him up but rather to continue to follow him to see what else would be determined from that investigation, but at the point at which the Philippine security services realized what they had, it was necessary to shut that down. It was shut down when he left there and went to Bangkok and from Bangkok to Pakistan. We had him arrested there.

MR. MAC NEIL: And let's describe the arrest. He was arrested in a Holiday Inn there and found lying on his bed, and they found, as I read in the wires, a suitcase full of toy cars filled with explosives.

MR. KOCH: Well, there are conflicting reports. The Pakistanis say he was arrested in a Holiday Inn. Other people say he was arrested in a separate guest house somewhere. Some people say -- the Pakistanis say they interrogated him. Others say they didn't. It's early days as this information comes in. He's only been in custody in the last 24 hours.

MR. MAC NEIL: Now, Peg Tyre, you were in the New York court today when he was arraigned. Describe what he looked like and how he behaved at the arraignment.

PEG TYRE, Newsday: He was very jaunty for a man who is supposed to be the new Jackal and he was sort of a yuppie terrorist, is how I described him. He had a Navy blue, double-breasted blazer on, and he smiled at his lawyer, his court-appointed lawyer. He spoke perfect English. He sang out that he was not guilty. He seemed relieved to be there in the courtroom.

MR. MAC NEIL: He seemed relieved to be there?

MS. TYRE: That was my reading on it.

MR. MAC NEIL: Now, there are reports tonight, as Ms. Mylroie said, suggested a moment ago, that he is cooperating with, with U.S. authorities. Is that credible to you?

MS. TYRE: We'll have to see. We've heard conflicting reports. From what I understand, he made statements about his involvement in certain acts. Now, whether that is -- those statements were to Pakistani officials and some to the FBI -- whether that turns into a cooperation agreement with the government, that's a very big step, and it's one I'm just not sure he's taken.

MR. MAC NEIL: Ms. Mylroie, in your view, what is his capture going to reveal about who or what country was behind the World Trade Center bombing and this other plot?

MS. MYLROIE: Well, he has said it was Iraq. I, myself, have gone through thousands of pages of World Trade Center bombing evidence made available to me as a consultant to ABC News and reached the same conclusion. I believe that if any time you want to spend an hour on this question I can convince America that Saddam was behind this. Now, the problem is that those documents were not properly handled in Washington. The FBI did not make them available to the other bureaucracies, the foreign and defense bureaucracies, so the question of state sponsorship in the World Trade Center bombing was not adequately addressed. And it fell between the cracks of the justice system in our country, which has radically split off from the foreign and defense bureaucracies, and the Justice Department, when they're given a case, will produce prosecution of individuals and convictions, but that kind of thinking does not address the question of state sponsorship. And this is a very, very immense problem.

MR. MAC NEIL: Let's ask Mr. Koch. Do you see the evidence pointing that clearly to Saddam Hussein and Iraq now?

MR. KOCH: Yes, I do. I see it pointing to Iraq, but I would like to -- it seems to me -- to look at this as to who was behind the World Trade Center bombing is to take a diminimous approach to this whole issue, which is not particularly useful to do. It's a nice thing to have captured Ramzi Yousef. This is not a definitive conclusion to the problem of Islamic terrorism. And there are thousands of people like Ramzi Yousef who are as capable as he is and are as willing as he is to commit murder in the service of their convictions. So I think it's important who was behind it, sure, but to believe that these problems flow exclusively from Iraq is to kid ourselves.

MR. MAC NEIL: Well, what about Ms. Mylroie's point that the question of state terrorism is not being addressed as such in the effort to prosecute individuals?

MR. KOCH: Well, I think -- I'm not entirely sure I agree 100 percent with my colleague on that. We -- there are -- there are times -- there have been times in the past when we knew that certain countries were more heavily involved in terrorism than we wanted to admit for diplomatic or other reasons. Syria is a prime example. We virtually absolved Syria during the Gulf War of its role in terrorism, of its role in the Lockerbie bombing, in order to enlist its assistance in the Gulf War, so there are sometimes competing priorities, but we haven't -- we haven't turned our back on the problem, and we haven't absolved Iraq of anything.

MR. MAC NEIL: Let me ask Ms. Tyre, who's covering the trial, are the -- how are the prosecutors handling so far the question of who's behind all this?

MS. TYRE: Well, if Iraq turns out to be behind the World Trade Center bombing, I would think the prosecutors for the Sheik case are going to have a difficult time. Their case rests upon the foundation that the Sheik inspired the bombing. The Sheik has no allegiance with the Iraqis. There's a theological separation there, so it's antithetical to the case that they'remaking in the very courthouse where Ramzi Yousef was arraigned.

MR. MAC NEIL: Now, Ramzi Yousef is going to be arraigned, and what is he -- is he going to be given a separate trial on the old - - as a continuation of the World Trade Center bombing?

MS. TYRE: That's my understanding. He was indicted as one of the World Trade Center bombings, and he's not -- he's an un-indicted co-conspirator in the Sheik case and perhaps evidence of his activities will be brought in as part of the proof to the World Trade Center conspiracy.

MR. MAC NEIL: Now, this is the second sensational development this week in these trials. Describe the thing I referred to in that little bit of background, Siddig Ali's move earlier this week, and what it means for the other defendants.

MS. TYRE: Siddig Ali was one of the main defendants in the Sheik case, and what he did is he proffered to the government, offered to make a cooperation agreement in the summer but was rejected. What he faced was life in prison without basically a usable defense. So as he went into the trial, his lawyers were trying to straddle the fact that he had originally gone into a cooperation agreement and then was rejected. At the beginning of the week, he decided to plead out guilty to all the counts of the indictment, and on the idea that if he testified against his former co- defendants, he would be able to get a letter from the prosecutor asking the judge for mercy. In his -- he described what he's going to testify to when he pled guilty, and he rolled over on all of his co-defendants and basically followed, step by step, the government's case. So it seemed that they have made an ideal witness out of Siddig Ali.

MR. MAC NEIL: And he -- among other things -- he has revealed that the Sheik, the Muslim cleric, knew of and, and say what he said about the, the Sheik's involvement in the World Trade Center and the conspiracy.

MS. TYRE: He didn't exactly tie. Now, everything that he said in his statement is not going to be the sum total of his testimony, I'm sure, but he didn't tie the Sheik to the World Trade Center bombing. He tied him to the conspiracy to blow up bridges and tunnels. There was a Queens garage where a group of them were caught on videotape mixing a bomb, and so he said, he tied the Sheik to that activity which, to my knowledge, had never been done before. They had never made that direct link. He also tied the Sheik to the Mubarak plot, the plot to assassinate the Egyptian president, which we had heard before that another witness would also testify to.

MR. MAC NEIL: And he also said that the man tried and acquitted of murdering Rabbi Kahane several years ago, Nosair, is that his name?

MS. TYRE: Right.

MR. MAC NEIL: He also testified that he actually did it, did he not?

MS. TYRE: He did. Nosair was acquitted on a -- on the murder charge but was convicted on a lesser weapons charge. And he did implicate Nosair.

MR. MAC NEIL: So, Laurie Mylroie, what do the Siddig -- Siddig's action in turning against his co-defendants, what does that say to you about the turn in this trial, the way this is going to go?

MS. MYLROIE: Well, I have a tendency to relate it to the heart attack I gave Andrew McCarthy, the federal prosecutor in that trial, on January 6th, when I was invited up to New York City at the invitation of the New York District Attorney's office to present the evidence against Iraq. I talked to the New York District Attorney's office, but to my surprise, the federal prosecutors were there, and I presented the thing. And Mr. McCarthy was a very unhappy camper. Now, I don't know whether it's entirely coincidence or not that on January 23rd, Siddig Ali turns, without even his defense lawyers knowing about it, or if some offer were made to him. I really don't know.

MR. MAC NEIL: But I don't -- spell out what you think the connection might be that makes you suggest there's a connection.

MS. MYLROIE: Well, I think that Mr. McCarthy understood from my briefing that his case was terribly weak. In fact, I view it as nonsense, this Islamic international Jihad conspiracy. If America wants to buy that, how about the conspiracy of free Masons and Jews that overthrew the Russian czars that if America will buy that, I'll sell them the Brooklyn Bridge! This is -- I speak as someone with a Ph.D. in middle eastern politics from an Ivy League university. My colleagues consider this trial in New York to be complete nonsense. You don't get any academic coming up and talking about the international Jihad conspiracy because it makes no sense.

MR. MAC NEIL: What's your view of that, Mr. Koch?

MR. KOCH: Of what?

MR. MAC NEIL: Of that it makes no sense to call this an example of the international Jihad or holy struggle conspiracy?

MR. KOCH: First, let me say I think what we're looking at here is something more in the nature of a unifying inspiration, rather than a grand, global conspiracy, so I agree to that point. But with regard to the specifics of this, of the New York trial, I don't know what brings us to the conclusion that it's absurd to view this as a -- within the framework of the operation as a conspiracy.

MR. MAC NEIL: What does it say, Mr. Koch, the law enforcement effort so far in turning Siddig, in arresting Yousef, and so on, what does it say about how effective U.S. anti-terrorism efforts have become in the last few years?

MR. KOCH: I think --

MR. MAC NEIL: Does it give you confidence that we're really on top of the problem, or what?

MR. KOCH: You don't know what you don't know. There's an old cliche in intelligence. But I think we are probably getting better at it. We're getting better at penetrating the group. We're getting better at raising the paranoia level. We have had some attractive successes, but we have to have to recognize that this is a long- term process. There are no -- there many, many ways to hurt this country, no good way to defend it. It's encouraging that we are getting support from, from foreign governments, encouraging to Pakistan who turned Yousef over to us without much fuss. But this is a long-term process, and there will be times when we look rather foolish and incompetent, and there will be times when we look like heroes. Right now we look like heroes. We should enjoy it. It's not going to last very long.

MR. MAC NEIL: And what -- just give us a sketch out in a minute what the outline of this trial is. We're only at the very beginning of this long conspiracy trial, right?

MS. TYRE: It's a group of interlocking conspiracies. One is the Mubarak assassination -- the other is -- the attempted assassination. The other is the assassination of Meir Kahane, the World Trade Center bombing, and the Bridges & Tunnels conspiracy, the conspiracy to blow up the bridges and tunnels. Basically, they have -- the prosecutors have established what you would think of as a traditional organized crime family. The Sheik is at the head. He's the godfather. He has operators. He has money men. He has people he goes to for cars. He -- he's not seen as being one of - - an active person but someone who solicits supports, supplies inspiration. That's the prosecutor's case.

MR. MAC NEIL: And how long is this expected to last?

MS. TYRE: About eight months.

MR. MAC NEIL: Eight months. Well, Peg Tyre, Laurie Mylroie, and Noel Koch, thank you all. FOCUS - ON THE BORDER

MS. WARNER: Now we turn to the issue of illegal immigration, a continuing problem along the U.S.-Mexico border. This week's crunch point was Nogales, Arizona. Correspondent Tom Bearden reports.

MR. BEARDEN: Illegally crossing the border between Nogales, Arizona, and Nogales, Sonora, has always been routine. But the numbers of people crossing this week have been anything but routine. On Tuesday, 690 people were arrested, a single-day record. Historically, traffic has always increased in January. This year, the administration says the flow has been magnified even further by the steep drop in the value of the peso. In response, more than 60 border patrol agents have been temporarily transferred to the sector from other parts of the country. They met with Immigration & Naturalization Service Commissioner Doris Meissner yesterday while undergoing orientation. The new agents will be deployed differently than in the past. Traditionally, agents have patrolled anywhere from a few hundred feet to several miles behind the border, apprehending people after they cross. Now, they'll be stationed directly on the border to prevent people from crossing in the first place. That tactic has been successful in El Paso to the East and San Diego to the West, dramatically reducing the influx. Commissioner Meissner says making it tougher to cross other places has funneled more people to Nogales.

DORIS MEISSNER, INS Commissioner: We expected this here. I mean, our planning has included moving from the San Diego-El Paso efforts into Arizona and into South Texas, but this one needed to have a quick reaction.

MR. BEARDEN: Will the kind of tactics that you've been using successfully in El Paso and San Diego be employed here?

DORIS MEISSNER: They -- each sector is slightly different in what it needs, and we really need to tailor the way we use our people to the circumstances. Most likely, what we'll do here is a high visibility operation. This is an urban area connecting, and, and our difficulty is that people slip across the border and are able to melt into the, into the urban area. So a high visibility strategy where there are lots of agents right on the line up against the -- up against the border so that the crossing gets spread to the perimeters, where it's more mountainous and where we have a lot more space in which we can operate is what we're looking to achieve.

MR. BEARDEN: The agency has also been reinforcing the fence that separates the two cities. The old chain link variety is riddled with holes. Large sections have been replaced with solid steel panels which were originally designed for military air strips. Yesterday afternoon, Commissioner Meissner told the Nogales City Council they'll be seeing a lot more fence like that in the near future.

DORIS MEISSNER: We're able to confirm for you today that on April 4th, the military will be in here starting to do the fence building that is slated as part of the Operation Safeguard effort that will be enormously helpful to you, we think, because not only will you have a secure fence, rather than a patchwork fence, you will have a road system really that backs it up which will give enormously greater mobility to the border patrol in moving around and responding to the dispatching that, that we have in place from the cameras and so forth in order to be doing the arrests.

MR. BEARDEN: Most of the aldermen welcomed that news.

MAYOR LOUIE VALDEZ, Nogales: We've had nothing but rave reviews. As far as we're concerned, they've done an outstanding job of making sure that we're included in the process, and we consult and collaborate in as many areas as we possibly can.

MR. BEARDEN: But not everyone in Nogales likes the idea of reinforcing the fence. Some object to what they term the increasing militarization of the border. Some businessmen are concerned that a steel barricade sends a menacing message to their customers in Mexico, and that their business will suffer as a result. Jose Canchola owns two McDonald's restaurants in Nogales. He's also the former mayor of the city.

JOSE CANCHOLA, Businessman: Fences have never worked. It didn't work in the iron curtain in Russia or East Germany, and I don't think it'll work here. In fact, if we go down to Naco, they have become so creative, the illegals, that they even cut through it, they put a door knob that you can open the door and go through. The only thing they haven't done was go to a locksmith and put a key there so they can come in and out on their own. It's been interesting.

MR. BEARDEN: Alderman Antonio Serino told Commissioner Meissner he was skeptical of fences too but is encouraged, nonetheless.

ANTONIO SERINO, Nogales Alderman: I've been in this city thirty some odd years. I was in the police department for 14 years. So I'm well aware of the problems that exist at this time, only that they are 20 times greater than they were when I was in the police department. But when they put the grates up, I personally, my opinion said they won't work, people from Mexico are going to tear 'em up, which they did. Now you finally got to the core of it, you're doing the right thing, in my opinion. You're putting officers at the line. That's the only thing that's going to keep them from coming over. You can put all the fences on, the grates, they're going to come through regardless of what you do in that respect, but if you put bodies out there, they have to go around the bodies.

MR. BEARDEN: Meissner also told the council that the Mexican police presence is increasing as well. She had met earlier in the day with Mexican authorities who have established a new unit for border operations. These officers are part of Grupo Beta or Group B, which now patrols along the Mexican side of the fence. U.S. agents say they've been effective in reducing violence because they've cut off the escape route for Mexican bandits who rob illegal aliens on the U.S. side then duck across the border before U.S. authorities can arrive. Meissner says the Mexican authorities have been increasingly cooperative but Alderman Serino is skeptical.

ANTONIO SERINO: Personally, I don't think you're going to get too much help from Mexico, because the more come over, the less their problems. Let's face that too, huh. If you can get rid of six, eight hundred people a day, that's six, eight hundred people a day that they don't have to contend with in Mexico. They are out of work, out of food, out of everything.

MR. BEARDEN: The council had an additional suggestion for Meissner. Deal with the backlog of applications for border crossing cards. Those who have them cross legally to shop or work before returning home at night. Local officials say tens of thousands more qualify but often find it simpler to just go through the fence than deal with red tape. Officials say expediting applications would cut down on the number of people the border patrol has to chase and allow them to concentrate on those who intend to escape into the interior of the U.S.

JOSE CANCHOLA: I would put 20 of those agents up in the office and let 'em process the paper and allow more people to come into this country legally because they can qualify as local crosses, and that's going to prevent a lot of people from coming to the country illegally.

MR. BEARDEN: Right now, though, the emphasis is on arrests. The temporary agents will hold the line until 100 new officers that have already been hired for this sector complete their training. They're part of the administration's plan to add 700 new agents nationwide this year. The White House also wants to charge entrance fees to cross the border, crack down on employers who hire illegal aliens, and modernize computer systems. The White House says the goal is to triple the number of deportations of illegal aliens in the next year. ESSAY - SURVIVAL STORY

MR. MAC NEIL: Finally tonight, essayist Roger Rosenblatt has some thoughts on the subject of survivors.

SPOKESMAN: There were no early clues on why the intercontinentale de Aviacions DC-9 plunged into a swamp.

ROGER ROSENBLATT: Certain news stories stick in the craw, or in the crawl space between the recognition of someone else's pain and one's own. I'm thinking of the recent plane crash in Colombia, in South America. When the jet dropped 4,000 feet into a lake, 51 people were killed in a shot. One person survived -- a nine-year- old girl whose parents and brother were among the other fifty-one. As for the girl, Erika Delgado, she was simply thrown clear just before the plane plunged into the water, thrown clear, as if God had grasped her body in hand at the last possible second, snatched it out of the air like a line drive and declared, "Not this time, Erika, not yet." Her only physical injuries were a broken shoulder and some bruises. Doctors called her survival "a miracle." I wonder what Erika will call it. Miraculous survivals occur, of course, not all as spectacular as this, but they occur. In terrible automobile crashes, there is often someone who walks away from a compacted car that has been turned into a hearse for others. Some escape houses on fire; some do not. Most recently, the tragic earthquake in Japan allowed some to live, and caused thousands of others to perish. The lethal gaseous wind that leveled Bhopal, India, some years ago left some streets piled with bodies, others breathing free. Miraculous survivals happen on every scale. It is a miracle that anyone survived the Nazi death camps or the Cambodian genocide. In Thailand, in 1982, I met an eight-year-od boy survivor. His parents had been killed by Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge. The boy buried them, himself. Then he escaped the Khmer Rouge, walking miles alone -- friends murdered, family exterminated. He never spoke of the odds against which he managed to live. But one day he will ask: Why me? It is in the survivor's circumstance especially a troubling question, why me, that implies not only that one has been plucked from destruction by fate but also that one is of the Calvinistic elect, that a higher purpose awaits. Who knows? Why does a lone baby survive in a burned out African villages or a Bosnian village, or in the latest of the war nut-hatches, Grozny? Who walked away from the earthquake in Kobe? Who walks away from a drive-by shooting in South Central LA or in Bensonhurst? It may seem hubris to conclude that certain individuals have been chosen to live where life otherwise has been earnestly eradicated. But then the other likely conclusion, that survival is merely random, is no more satisfactory. And then there is that other element one reads of, survivor guilt. Is one to pay silence penance for the rest of one's life for the fact of one's life? There are those who make moral use of surviving, give over their good fortune for the good of others -- acts of gratitude, coupled with duty. Elie Wiesel made use of his survival in books and deeds. Others have done likewise, driven by their experiences in Soviet gulags, South African prisons, or in the inner-city cells of the great United States. Call it a miracle when a nine-year-old girl survives a plane crash. Call it a miracle, too, when Claude Brown survived the plague of heroin in "Man Child in the Promised Land," or when a poor Asian or Hispanic child survives a crushing of ambition or a plunge into the dark waters of beatings, ignorance, no teaching, no help. This is not to say that miracles of this sort are so frequent they ought not to be noticed. To the contrary, the miracles of human survival intensify the feeling that one ought to be more alert to them. And once in a while comes a story that clarifies matters, makes palpable the news that life is a miracle, whether one rescues oneself, or is rescued by chance, or falls, or rises somewhere in between. Tonight, next month, nine-year-old Erika Delgado will weep for the family she lost and for herself alone. Soon she will weep for someone else. So we survive. I'm Roger Rosenblatt. RECAP

MS. WARNER: Again, the major stories of this Thursday, President Clinton said he would stand by his embattled nominee for surgeon general, Dr. Henry Foster. Former Vice President Dan Quayle said he was dropping out of the race for President in 1996. And the alleged mastermind of the World Trade Center bombing pleaded "not guilty" after being captured and returned to the U.S. last night. Good night, Robin.

MR. MAC NEIL: Good night, Margaret. That's the NewsHour for tonight. We'll be back tomorrow night with our Friday political duo, Shields and Gigot, among other things. I'm Robert MacNeil. Good night.