The MacNeil/Lehrer Report; South Bronx

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push back funding for this program has been provided by the station and other public television stations and by grants from exxon corporation allied chemical corporation and the corporation for public broadcasting last year president carter made a dramatic visit to the south bronx in new york city from that trip has emerged a joint federal city plan to save the stricken area proponents say it's the most significant effort ever launched to hold urban decay but others fear that spending vast sums on the south bronx is an utter waste of government money it's b weeks before

i mean president carter sudden visit to the south bronx thirty months ago is intended to symbolize his commitment to stop the rot in american cities now after unsympathetic treatment by the congress commitment to the south bronx is still the most tangible part of mr carter's bourbon strategy and that commitment is controversial even here in new york tonight is the south bronx the right battleground for mr connors war on urban blight when there's nothing like the south bronx anywhere in the country it's twelve square miles of crime and violence decay and desolation or seven hundred and fifty thousand people live mostly on a welfare economy the sap arrives wasn't born that way of course no places until the late fifties it was a predominantly white middle class area a mixture of row houses and apartment buildings what happened in the south bronx has happened to many older americans cities as poor blacks and hispanics came to new york and settled in the bronx the whites fled to the suburbs and fifteen years the population shifted from one quarter black and hispanic more

than one hat by the time president carter visited the area last year forty three thousand housing units have been abandoned or destroyed hundreds of businesses had left with a loss of tens of thousands of jobs a result per capita income has dropped to forty percent of the national average one third of the people are on welfare unemployment ranges from twenty to thirty percent and only one out of four students who enter high school ever graduate but it's the physical decay of the area that leaves the strongest impression this is what most struck the president on his visit and something had to be done and i think a combination of a low rent low cost loans for them the section eight program which supplements wrote the play to keep their landlord and business clusters of the state in state programs which in the new york or the best in the country combined with front of the theater in this area around six months after mr carter said that preliminary plan was released calling for the expenditure of one and a half a billion dollars over seven

years from federal state and city fans the money would go for housing industrial and recreation and parks retail development and transportation so far washington has committed seventy five million dollars as a star today new york's board of estimate is debating whether to approve the first city financed project a thirty two million dollar low rise to one third of housing development and one of the spots mr carter visited even that relatively small project has raised grave doubts in the minds of some new york officials soon after the president visited the south bronx he put one of his top aides in charge of the federal follow through is jack watson special white house assistant for intergovernmental affairs at the watson is terribly the south bronx can be turned around if i do well you take a long time you know i think there are no more solutions result in very quick turnaround i think when the president was there some things he said both on the scene and subsequently made apparent that he also think it's a long term effort that can require significant amount of

federal city state and to a very very large extent private sector can then ok let's talk specifically about the federal commitment commitment how much as the fed in terms of money is the federal government intruding right now to this project robin use the term seventy five million dollars is out about it now that a complicated question him back to the narrative that the federal investment in the south bronx right now runs over a billion dollars it's hard to estimate for example when you aggregate all the money is that the federal government right now is moving into the south bronx either through the city go through various state administered programs health programs welfare programs education programs housing programs and others that figure right now aggregates considerably in excess of a million dollars so it's not a question of whether or not we will spend money in the south bronx is how well we spend what results will we get from it why are we talking about no money or is the money

this one billion dollars figure you used and other figures that have been used to or is this new money or is this money from existing federal programs that existed before the president went to the south bronx and you are now re channeling reorganizing or something like that it's more the latter than the former and other words when we're spending as much as we're spending both in the city of new york at large and in the cell phones in particular one of the greatest challenges we have particularly in a time of budget constraints but it is seeing to it that we're spending the money with the greatest possible effect say that they were targeting the money well to the areas that need it most seeing to it that were packaging the resources that we have at both the federal and the state and local levels to the greatest extent possible and significantly saying to it that we are leveraging as much private sector investment as we possibly can through the expenditure of

those go on so it to a very large extent we're talking about the a better more rational more impactful expenditure of the monies that were already moving into that area that we're not talking about big vivid new expenditure great sums of money that's right and it's not in you mention budget constraints so it's unlikely that anything like that is not happen in the near future too has occurred the president has made it clear recently you know and that we are an fyi ad budget which is a budget we're putting together right now going to cut another approximately ten billion dollars of the federal budget so that's hard to do that requires government programs government expenditures in every area to be very carefully evaluated very carefully assess both with respect their effectiveness and with respect to the elimination of waste and with respect to maximizing their effect and isn't the hard reality that it's projects like the south bronx projects that tend to get cut when there's a heavy

budget cutting gentleman no i would not say that the prevalence is as committed now to an effective urban policy as he was when he announced the policy last march the fact the matter is that we simply must take the very substantial resources that we're presently spending and that we will continue to stand and see that they're applied better on a national basis if i may jackson lee robinson just a moment ago that the question was whether or not the south bronx is the fair battleground presence or impulse the answer that question is that it's one of many battleground preserve and parsley does not have a single place that one what we do not only that the state has become kind of a special character you ok because the president was there i didn't agree with that i do agree that an hour of play something further on in the south bronx represents some of them most deteriorating conditions and

at the same moment some of the greatest prospects for development there's so much vacant land there we've got as you pointed out in your remarks a very high percentage of unemployment and a an unacceptably intolerably high level of unemployment but my experience there with a community people leave me you know not just a belief but to know that they want jobs they want to work that won a revitalizing community and rebuild the white house is that they can be proud of but they want jobs they'll commit them to pay the rent or the mortgage payments on those houses so that it is at the same time a great challenge one's gonna take a long time for me and a great opportunity for nike for the man chosen to head the entire south bronx redevelopment is edward j lo the urban renewal responsible for revamping deteriorated areas and for instance boston and new haven stallone what is the south bronx going to look like when you're through with it well if i if i knew it the planetarium but that's a process which is one take some

kind of workout it's something true and have to discuss with the federal government with the community there's six more years than many community organizations in a city agencies for is not a concept that cities states owes a process that we have to evolve when it's all done i think we'll find that the new housing which is built will be too three stories non allen that there will be lower odds industrial building that the more recreation fans and there are lots more in history in a recent interview in the washington post you listed the seven conditions for a successful there are redevelopment program and the first of them was comprehensive planning critics of the south bronx among scientists say you don't yet have a comprehensive plan are you violating your own conditions by monday without having a comprehensive plan i may have very strong and very public commitment again of the board an estimate today that

one of our highest priorities will be the preparation of such a plan and i'm a plant like that before with the process and just describe that remains a prayer in this about something you do in a minute ah another of your conditions was that you should know where the money is coming from that was the second of your seven conditions do you yet know where the money's coming from well don't judge those services at all or if you go the delphic oracle on and throw in a question and you get an instant response which you are something of an oracle and these numbers are well something i am my answer is this that we're going to be all of generation investment private on issues and a more effective use of federal monies all kinds with a higher leverage than the city's been able to go on the past which is what mr watson just said you couldn't hear him because you were just coming in from the border west in that meeting but he just said the same thing so

you it is not necessary to your plan to have a massive infusion of fresh federal money well i didn't do it in boston where the upfront commitment of massive federal money flowing was really had mastered federal money and massive private my nonprofit will be at this time presenter low rise development a housing development that was being discussed in the board investment even up to last few minutes mr don't know whether they approved it or not they did approve of that building carol bellamy the city council president here in iraq asked recently is this the best site or was it chosen because president carter stood there what's the answer to that rally was chosen in my view because it was a good site there are no perfect arts in the south bronx borough present difficulties and it was in no small part because the president stood there and because the president made at the most visible urban policy can lead to any president said to survive and he can't walk away

from them well i think it will come back sometimes renewal project has received hundreds of tentative approval by the new york city planning commission which has to assess its impact on the city's already precarious finances the chairman of that commission is robert j wagner jr son of the former newark mayor and swallowing his misgivings and getting approval mr wagner said the commission was taking a leap of faith what are your own misgivings mr wagner of arkansas' blanche project will we had some specific concerns about the project that was in an area for found desolation with out the kind of support services we would like to have seen a rounded of beyond that do we have big concerns about what it meant in terms of the direction of the entire south bronx of a plan i think or were reassured with the commitments we've received from mr logan that humor video that there will be the kind of comprehensive strategy that we think is absolutely yes have you put a deadline as the head of the city planning commission on when they must produce a comprehensive plan before you go further promotions well in our report on the show

history project which we approved unanimously we just wasn't much as the president victor talk about and which was pretty i always suggested a six month deadline for at least a preliminary draft plan as well as a firmer sense of what the federal commitment was and what we've said is that without those two things not totally in place was obviously they can't be totally in place would look or not look favorite leon extraordinary expenditures of city money for the south bronx not that we wouldn't continue to do what we're already doing but do not look favorably on extraordinary expenditures in sitting on does what we've heard just heard from mr watson mr loeb about no large infusion of fresh federal money but a better use as they put it all of the money that sort of coming into the tune of something like a billion dollars a year it does that give you the confidence you need that this is a sensible plan to go in with why they're both absolutely right in stressing the need to spend money in a better way because after all we've spent some two point two million dollars on housing and capital investment over the last decade in the south bronx and all we've seen is continued deterioration we

spend as federal state and city government together on social services and medicaid approximately one point two billion dollars a year in the south bronx and that hasn't worked and the clear need is for the right to use that money but in addition to that there will be the need for additional federal money isn't we should be in a position to ask the federal government for that when we do have a comprehensive strategy one that emphasizes building from strength and you would not recommend new york city's spending more of its money unless there was a promise of more federal money isn't as an actress without a strategy ended an additional clinton i don't think we should take from other neighborhoods and put it in the south bronx so we should reduce our present commitment of the federal assistance should be over and above what we are now receiving why are you confident are you confident that this plan in this method of proceeding after mr connors visit is going to do any better for the south bronx and all the other plans and money that has gone in there in the last decade we couldn't get worse and i think in the person of their logos in the kind of

commitment to both symbolic and real of the president's visit we have a chance and i think anyone who wait does this show some humility about what it's gonna be required to rebuild the south bronx will be making enormous mistake of profound market forces profound social forces that will have to be overcome and i think rightly the city and federal government have made commitments the questions raised by the commission is whether that commitment isn't to be sufficient and whether we have the adequate strategy but it's something that has to be done not just for newark city but for urban america and those are still question marks <unk> emissions concern but not everyone agrees the plan to rehabilitate the self on to the one hundred percent good idea after newman doesn't is the director of the institute of communities on analysis a new york based organization which specializes in our lives in urban development projects around the country are your concerns about the plan to revitalize wrong or as we are now house are the plans we take a look at them they're

really applies not to stabilize existing communities but robert to go into a vacant square mile of what looks like a bombed out dressed in and to rebuild the area from scratch all the figures that were generated by the planning commission in their consideration show that forty three thousand units of housing were lost in a five year period the current cost that's about a billion and a quarter a billionaire record as more money they were planning to put in for new housing in there at that rate will there be losing peripheral communities faster than we can build up the existing area that sees me were directing our resources incorrectly or we have our existing communities while communities in biographer yourself process have to be stabilized an infusion of federal monies that could do a tremendous job we can build new housing that we can't communicate there's a lot of things that are really disturbing the planning commission points out to all the issues there is no infusion of additional federal monies were building public housing a large scale and abandon area in a way that we've been doing for twenty

five years and a history in this country of that kind of exercise has demonstrated that it does nothing to stabilize a community and that we had after additional five years there's just a large public housing project i think we have to move into the direction of the existing communities it's not easy is much more difficult than what is being planned now because the cites are not vacant lots more sites gotta go and work with the existing communities we gotta find those communities that have resources in terms of existing a commercial facilities institute of the saudis in schools and build housing of the type that i loathe is talking about in those communities that silly play for one to be able to attract low income working class families to cooperation how housing will have to be able to attract and charged we're on a well because an image i cried

sony's no commercial facilities that access to the subway systems now the president visited the south bronx and he stood out what is the most dramatic period there and he made a commitment to the softball i think it's a shame that we took that literally and saw it as a commitment to the charlotte street area it was not if we adopt the presidents or the approach that we see i was approved today that we're really missing the point what we want is an innovative approach to the stabilization and revitalization of the cell what does not echo back on the past let me ask you if it was up to you what would you do this up front or with the south i would work there are long work would you do i understand that point already do about this act not just leave along no i think the south bronx is no different from five ten twenty years the city are it suffers the same sort of problems we gotta go in and work with the existing communities and try to find a way put new housing into stable areas and build public

housing they're in small groupings rather large quantities large though it's not an easy task but someone i get motivated are you doing the periphery areas i think there's a positive lists are all a misunderstanding in geography the south bronx is a very large area that we just read areas is a couple square miles was machen the mill well we talk about saving the soft wrongs we should really be talking about a five square mile area or larger which is a soft box how we should be talking about the stable existing communities there and not about a bombed out area that is best forgotten me know if you really wanted to change the image of the air the president stood you should just like that the forest and bring new republic and cameramen at the next of our campaign eleven you that the fallen but really move in to the areas that you can say i'm trying to do something there are like iran has drawn some really feel about

germs to humans it is i agree with virtually everything the cinnamon just said i should also note that i agree with everything that bob wagner said we need to build on strength there is a lot of healthy tissue in the south bronx a lot a lot more than the public generally realizes there they're healthy communities they're healthy community groups there is a tremendous amount of largely invisible but strong living tissue to which we can craft community economic development housing and so forth at the same time i think that jim lehrer as pointers not it's extremely well taken we've got areas of the cell phones such as a shallow street area which we cannot ignore i think that what the city planning commission was saying and saying wisely was that if we're going to put a housing there as was approved by then today we must see to it that there are support systems

sufficient to sustain that community of of new housing were talking about housing project their of seven hundred and thirty two years that's not emails and of the kind of housing that i think that will evolve into the low rise nadia the dnc we can build the kind of support commercial industrial another job related support systems for we're behind this term housing project built in this isolated devastated area or would you agree with mr newman the revolution lots of grass and fires go there and concentrate on the areas that were the tissue as you put it is healthy i think we have to do both i do not think we can ignore the very substantial areas in the south bronx that are in fact devastated at the same time i think as i said mr newman is absolutely correct when he says that our greatest chances for success art to identify those healthy places and belong on but i i really don't believe that we can and he had suggested plant

or that two square mile area in the middle of the south bronx you've been hired a bit earlier to this job i gather you've had it for couple of months not in the narrative here or would you have to approve building this housing project where it is a new twist in humans points would you tell us what other couple facts there one is that when they're caught one around recently to take another look at the very reforms public hearing season and avoided arrest until he's gonna right on the edge of the site the houses born and grew up in wesson hundred yards from the edge of this project faces the town a park and it's in very good shape was recently rebuilt councilman boulevard there's another several hundred years it's not that devastate is not healthy but it's not dead but more important jack should understand and ice fishing on his tan we intend to give a very hard for the equal priority to the design of a rehabilitation program modern rehabilitation

program along the grand concourse which is a very parisian style board with some thirty thousand units of housing and we can design and the federal government can help with insurance subsidies but with insurance street because as a girl it's used to be the raceway to work was just counted that is equal and priority they stabilization mascot mentioned the oldest one long literary which is in the south bronx we agree with him but importantly we can't say this is beyond this is helpless when i make it into a forest after both were planning to persuade jacket refers to have to give this money than i personally think they're going to hit us little bit distorted having already dollars to low back injuries at a very

persuasive man and the illustration looking at this as a way well there may be some new fresh money needed but we'll watch and see and put it in at the right time in order to exercise the leverage you talked about a while ago is that is that the approach the answer that question yes you must understand that we're talking about immense amounts of money we're talking about money as they're going in through cover his employment training act programs for example that the allegation to the city of new york and the program alone is about three hundred and eighty million dollars we're talking about housing programs in the in the tens of millions of dollars that are going in now we're talking about is as i love just pointed out very substantial what is known as section eight substantial and modern rehabilitation monies that are available to go in there so only make the point again that all of us come from bob wagner good lovin and also the

afternoon we are making as we must decide how best to spend that money we're investigating this announcer federal state local dollars in an area and have very little positive to show for free cannot continue that not only because we're in an inflation fighter but because the government cannot afford to spend money that way we got to do better i think we can mr newman yes louis armstrong says thirty year infusion of private capital is not not if you work in a short history there are the question is really do you start in the debris and work for to try to catch up with a receding horizon forty work with what stable and try to come back into the charlotte street area you're not going to be able to attract private capital offer an awful long time into the charlotte street area that you would be able to attract that if you work with stable communities worked out from their most <unk> watson said i wonder goes

wow has amman enough to do boehner's are enough might have to do either and ask you this is there any evidence of private interest in the area of them to speak about better we are talking with industrial concerns that were located in the south bronx was then expand there is serious interest on the part of the owners of property on the concourse and the savings institutions in investing there but they want to have that risk shared with the fha maurice jones we have to leave it there we're bigger than that send one dollar off three four five and your view of one of the

five government payouts only responsible for it dr grant excellent cooperation now it was b you're well owner mood fb