The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

MR. LEHRER: Good evening. I'm Jim Lehrer in Washington.

MR. MacNeil: And I'm Robert MacNeil in New York. After the News Summary this Thursday, we have extended excerpts from the Zoe Baird hearings and the related news conference by White House Communications Director George Stephanopoulos, plus analysis by two reporters, then our regular panel of regional editors and commentators react to the Baird story and the Clinton inauguration. Finally, we have an extended look at President Clinton's open house. NEWS SUMMARY

MR. LEHRER: President Clinton began his presidency today with a very open, open house. More than 800 people came through the White House shaking hands with the President and Mrs. Clinton. Vice President and Mrs. Gore joined them for the nearly four hour event. Tickets had been awarded by lottery. We'll have excerpts later in the program. Robin.

MR. MacNeil: Also, on his first working day as President, Mr. Clinton faced a new clash with Iraq. U.S. planes today bombed an air defense radar site in the northern no-fly zone. Pentagon officials said the radar had been activated and anti-aircraft guns had shot at allied planes. One U.S. plane fired a missile at the radar and the other dropped two cluster bombs on the site located about 10 miles south of Mosul. President Clinton and Sec. of State Warren Christopher spoke about the attack during picture taking sessions earlier today.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: I have nothing to add, other than we're going to adhere to our policy. We're going to stay with our policy. It is the American policy, and that's what we're going to stay with.

WARREN CHRISTOPHER, Secretary of State: The United States intends to protect our pilots in the no-fly zone. The Iraqis know perfectly well what it takes to comply with the U.N. resolutions and the establishment of the no-fly zones, and I think what happened today is a reflection of the determination that the Clinton administration will have in that area.

MR. MacNeil: Iraq described today's U.S. air strikes as aggressive and provocative. A foreign ministry spokesman denied that Iraqi radar had locked on to any allied plane. He said Iraq remained committed to its cease-fire promises of Tuesday, despite the incident. A group of U.N. weapons inspectors arrived safely in Baghdad today. They were on the first of five U.N. flights that will carry inspectors over the next few days. U.N. flights were suspended two weeks ago after Iraq refused to guarantee their safety. Iraq changed its position two days ago.

MR. LEHRER: President Clinton's support for Attorney General- Designate Zoe Baird was reaffirmed today. His spokesman, George Stephanopoulos, said Mr. Clinton would not withdraw her nomination because she knowingly hired two illegal aliens to work in her household. Baird testified for a second day before the Senate Judiciary Committee. We'll have more on the story right after this News Summary. The Senate confirmed nine more Clinton cabinet nominees by voice vote today. There were also more confirmation hearings. The Senate Banking Committee heard from Laura Tyson, President Clinton's nominee to chair the Council of Economic Advisers. She talked about deficit reduction.

LAURA TYSON, Nominee, Chief Economic Adviser: There's no simple answer to the deficit. There's no single thing that we can look to to resolve this problem. The second conclusion is, therefore, and it follows, it's a derivative, that to do this right, we really need to put everything on the table, that is, we cannot tie one hand behind our back and say we're going to solve what is a major problem for the country by ruling out certain kinds of actions. I think that we need to have political courage to say that all things must be considered, and I think that's the sacrifice that President Clinton was talking about.

MR. LEHRER: The Clinton nominee for U.N. ambassador testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Madeleine Albright said the crisis in Bosnia would be the highest priority on the Clinton national security agenda. She said the U.N. ban on Serbian warplanes over Bosnia should be enforced, and she offered this overall assessment of that situation.

MADELEINE ALBRIGHT, United Nations Ambassador-Designate: We all studied the League of Nations period, and I remember every time I studied it, I would think, how is it possible that these people watched what was going on and didn't do anything about it, and I must say that I hope we are all not in that situation 50 years from now when people read about this period. I think we cannot in these positions of responsibility that you have and I hope to have sit around and wait to be judged badly on this issue. And I think mainly we all jointly have to show some will to make sure that it is very clear to the world that this is not acceptable behavior in any time but certainly not at this period.

MR. MacNeil: Amnesty International today said Serb forces in Bosnia have engaged in the systematic rape of Muslim and Croat women. A report from the human rights group said local political and military officers generally condone the abuses. It said there was evidence that rape was being used as a weapon in the Serbian policy of ethnic cleansing. Amnesty International said it could not determine how many women had been raped, in part because many of the victims were too ashamed to report the incidents.

MR. LEHRER: Israel today rejected a United Nations Security Council demand that 413 deported Palestinians be returned to Israel. The Palestinians had been stranded between the borders of Israel and Lebanon for more than a month. Border police today stopped relatives carrying food and other aid for the Palestinians. Some of the relatives left their buses to protest.

MR. MacNeil: The Federal Reserve today reported economic conditions were improving across most of the country. It said the only exception was California. The assessment came in the Fed's latest survey of regional economic activity. It was the Central Bank's most positive report on the economy in nearly a year. British Airways today invested $300 million in USAir. The American carrier wanted the money to help restore its financial health. British Air wanted greater access to U.S. passengers. Last month, British Air abandoned plans to buy 44 percent of USAir when it appeared the U.S. Government would reject the deal. The new deal requires the approval of the Transportation Department.

MR. LEHRER: And that's it for the News Summary tonight. Now it's on the special case of Zoe Baird, how it's all playing outside Washington, and the Clintons' open house. FOCUS - UNDER SCRUTINY

MR. LEHRER: The problem of Zoe Baird is our lead story tonight. She is President Clinton's nominee for attorney general, and her problem has to do with her having broken the law in hiring illegal aliens as domestic help. Three Democrats and several Republican Senators announced today they would now vote against her confirmation. Other Democrats are also reportedly wavering. Our coverage begins with her second appearance before the Senate Judiciary Committee. It was today. Kwame Holman reports.

MR. HOLMAN: Zoe Baird now is the only Clinton nominee in real trouble in the confirmation process. That trouble began a week ago when it was disclosed that she knowingly hired illegal aliens, a Peruvian couple who worked as driver and nanny in her Connecticut home. Members of the Senate Judiciary Committee say constituent phone calls are running heavily against confirming Baird as attorney general, and this morning one of her first committee questioners raised the issue of her withdrawal.

SEN. HERBERT KOHL, [D] Wisconsin: I believe the attorney general of this country to be respected as much as anybody else in government because that person is a citizens' representative with respect to law and order and justice in this country. Have you asked yourself whether or not you might serve that order best by withdrawing your nomination?

ZOE BAIRD, Attorney General-Designate: I don't believe that that would be appropriate. I think that my overall record gives me the potential to be a great attorney general, that this episode, while I don't want to diminish it, excuse it, it was an episode which is a civil violation, when I paid the penalties, the penalties were $2900, I'm not trying to say that it's small or unimportant. I'm just trying to say that I think that the power of my overall record and the potential that I have to serve this country and to serve this President as attorney general should override the particular incident, in my mind, in my judgment.

MR. HOLMAN: Republican Senator Larry Pressler of South Dakota then went further. He became the first member of the panel to announce his opposition to Baird's nomination, despite her attempts to reassure him.

ZOE BAIRD: I can assure you that I in no way feel inhibited, reluctant, anxious about any issue that would come before the Justice Department. I think I have put this issue, my own personal situation, in its proper context, and I don't think it would in any way inhibit me from fulfilling all the duties that I would be required to fulfill as attorney general.

SEN. LARRY PRESSLER, [R] South Dakota: I'm talking about your effectiveness. I'm not so much digging into -- I know you've apologized for it, and we've gone through all the facts. I'm talking about your credibility, how you feel about your effectiveness as attorney general. For example, let's go to another example. Let's say that the Justice Department decided to do strike force, a lot of raids on small businessmen. There was a raid on a small business in Western South Dakota, I understand, regarding illegal aliens. Would you feel fully comfortable on going on national television and telling the American people we're going to start having these, these raids on small businesses --

ZOE BAIRD: Yes, absolutely.

SEN. LARRY PRESSLER: -- regarding illegal aliens?

ZOE BAIRD: I would. I believe that the law should be enforced, that the immigration laws should be enforced, and I believe they should be enforced even handedly and I have no problem with that.

SEN. LARRY PRESSLER: Well, this is a line of concern I have is your effectiveness, and I'm sorry to say that it will force me to vote against you. I know my ranking member has reached the opposite conclusion, and I think that the general consensus in the press is that you will be confirmed. I'll be working with you, but I wanted you to know and everybody to know that my concerns are, are your effectiveness.

MR. HOLMAN: Then one of two new women members of the Judiciary Committee questioned Baird. But California Democrat Dianne Feinstein also expressed reservations about the nominee based on the nature of her legal experience.

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN, [D] California: My concern is, can you take off this sort of precise lawyer's hat and really go out there and really make a campaign to make people in this nation understand what's happening with the proliferation of drugs? Please, this is very important. I think that Zoe Baird, magna cum laude scholar, Law Review editor, is long in the past. I believe that if you are confirmed, what has to emerge is Zoe Baird, the fighter for the people of America and for the streets of America. And that I'm uncertain about because it's a big job out there, and the streets are bad now.

ZOE BAIRD: I don't have any question in my mind but that if you're sitting here in two and four years, you would feel that the American people have come to think that there's someone in the attorney general job who might actually make a difference on these problems, where it won't be business as usual and turf fighting and squabbling over who's got what responsibility for what problem, where there will be someone out there who knows that she's the attorney general for the people of the United States, who has particular sensitivity to how these issues play out against women where they are acute, who have sensitivity to the range of problems of minorities living in desperate conditions in cities and doing what they can to get by, who doesn't excuse white collar crime because she's worked in business. In fact, I think people will find that I will understand how to get at white collar crime in ways that other attorneys general without my experience may not have understood.

MR. HOLMAN: During the lunch break, Senate Democrats caucused. The afternoon had brought a flood of new phone calls against Baird's nomination. When the committee reconvened 45 minutes late, Democrats shifted the focus away from the illegal workers' controversy. The committee's other new woman member, Carol Moseley- Braun, did not even mention the issue.

SEN. CAROL MOSELEY-BRAUN, [D] Illinois: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I can't help but be struck by the historic nature of this hearing in that this is the first time this committee has had two women Senators and the first time this committee has had to consider, had an opportunity to consider a woman nominee for the office of attorney general, and so I think that in that regard, Chairman Biden, I want to especially thank you for this opportunity to serve on the committee and for, and for giving Sen. Feinstein and I, Ms. Baird, a non-controversial nomination to work with. Thank you very much.

MR. HOLMAN: But ranking Republican Strom Thurmond did, forcing Baird to restate her now familiar explanation for hiring the workers and failing to pay their Social Security taxes on time. Committee Chairman Joseph Biden came to Baird's defense.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN, Chairman, Judiciary Committee: Quite frankly, I think what you did, as I told you from the beginning, bothers me a great deal, but I also don't want to blow it out of proportion from just my perspective, no one else's, and that is to be very blunt about it, and we're going to get a chance to hear from your husband because the request has been formally made by members of the minority and others for him to testify. Quite frankly, although not excusable, it seems to me that is explainable how, in fact, you got yourself into this position, and I want to just say publicly, I admire the fact from the beginning with me, when I told you on January 5th, when we first met, that I thought this was a big problem, you were direct with me, you were direct with me about you never made any excuses about what's happened, but I, I wouldn't be too much of a martyr on this either.

MR. HOLMAN: But Baird then was lectured from the other point of view. Wyoming Republican Alan Simpson and author of the 1986 immigration law that Baird violated became the second committee member to say he'll vote against confirming her as attorney general.

SEN. ALAN SIMPSON, [R] Wyoming: Because of my investment of eight years of my, my legislative life and other parts of my life into this issue, that to see that you have knowingly violated that law, so with that, with the fact of that work product and the work with it, and I admire you greatly as a person and as a lawyer, but I am not able and will be unable to support your nomination simply because of that singular fact. It's a very tough, wrenching decision for me. It had nothing to do with anything but -- [network audio trouble] -- and I admire you greatly as a person and as a lawyer but I am not able and will be unable to support your nomination simply because of that singular fact. It's a very tough, wrenching decision for me.

MR. HOLMAN: The committee was expected to finish its questioning of Baird by early this evening, but the issue will stay alive when the committee questions Baird's husband and others tomorrow.

MR. LEHRER: The Baird nomination was a main topic at the Clinton administration's first White House briefing for reporters today. The briefer was George Stephanopoulos, the new White House Director of Communications.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, White House Communications Director: Hear her out. Ask her the questions that you must ask, give her a chance to answer them. That's what hearings are for.

SUSAN SPENCER, CBS News: Did Mr. Clinton understand fully before naming her as the nominee for attorney general that she had employed illegal aliens for this long period of time, and if so, what do you think that says to the American public in light of his, his attempts, you know, to relate himself with the average guy who can't afford domestic help?

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: We certainly wouldn't want to leave that impression. I think that a lot of the details and the timing of this are rather murky, and we have the full statement and a full understanding after, after the fact, but he clearly does not understand and Zoe Baird has made her statement. She has said it was a mistake. She has said she regrets that, but you must weigh it against everything she has done in her life in the way of the legal experience she has managing a large department at Aetna, her service in the government, and that all has to be considered.

REPORTER: What do you mean you've got a full statement after the fact?

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: No, no.

REPORTER: Did he know this before nominating her or not? Did he understand exactly when it happened?

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: Again, I don't know the exact discussions on this. Zoe Baird has said -- and she did disclose this to the transition team -- and that she did make this disclosure herself, that is clear. As she has said, she was acting on the advice of counsel and considered it, as she'd been told by counsel, a technical matter. And we are now -- since then she has paid the fines.

REPORTER: But did she tell him what she told them?

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: I do not believe they had a discussion about it, no.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN: Are you suggesting today that senior transition officials, perhaps Vernon Jordan and Warren Christopher, and others who were deeply involved in the transition were fully informed of Zoe Baird's hiring of these illegal aliens, but they, they, the transition officials, did not inform the President?

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: No, I'm not suggesting that. I'm just saying that I know that she disclosed this matter to the transition officials, and I also believe that she did not discuss this with the President. He did not have a discussion of this with her, but it was disclosed to the transition officials.

THOMAS FRIEDMAN, New York Times: Clinton said throughout the campaign that he was coming to Washington to represent the people who play by the rules. Zoe Baird has testified that she didn't play by the rules. Why is he still standing by her? What does it say about him that he is?

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, she -- he continues to believe she'll make an excellent attorney general. She has a wealth of experience. What the Justice Department needs right now is a good manager who knows how to handle complex legal issues. It has not been run that well in the past. She can run the Justice Department in a solid manner, and he expects that she can continue to be a good attorney general.

MR. LEHRER: Now a look at what is going on off-camera in the case of Zoe Baird. Dan Klaidman has been covering the story for Legal Times. Mary Cheh is a professor at George Washington University Law School who has been an analyst on public television's live coverage of the Zoe Baird hearing. Where does it stand tonight? Is this nomination in serious trouble?

MR. KLAIDMAN: Well, I think it is in serious trouble. It was a very bad day for Zoe Baird. She started off this morning without a lot of announced opposition against her from members of the Senate, and today there are several members on both sides. Most importantly, there are two Senators on the Judiciary Committee, Alan Simpson, and Larry Pressler, both Republicans, who have said that they will vote against her.

MR. LEHRER: And now there are also four, three Democrats, Bennett Johnston of Louisiana, Richard Shelby of Alabama, and David Boren of Oklahoma, who later this afternoon have announced -- they're not on the Senate Judiciary but is this -- what vibrations do you hear when you hear those kinds of names and announcements?

MS. CHEH: Well, I think it's plain that we're bearing witness to a nomination unraveling and it's unraveling at various points. Not only do you have these Senators on the committee, although only Republicans on the committee to date saying that they won't support her, but you have other Senators now lining up, including Democrats saying that they won't support her, that on top of the fact that the Democratic members of the committee seem not to be rallying to her defense. The only hit of support so far that I've seen is to try to take it off the issue of the hiring of illegal aliens, to change the subject, if you will, and at one point, for example, Sen. Kennedy made some positive statements saying that she should get praise for supporting gun control legislation, but they are not there for her, and the President's statement through his communications director is, itself, rather tepid when she should be shored up as quickly as possible.

MR. LEHRER: What is the word, or is there any authoritative word then on what happened here? Did President Clinton know about this illegal alien problem and make the clean decision, well, I know you got a problem, Zoe, but I want you as my attorney general anyhow, or was it something that just got lost in the shuffle, or do we even know?

MR. KLAIDMAN: Well, there seems to be a lot of confusion about that. I think the answer right now is we don't know for sure. It's unclear whether there's an attempt by the White House communications people to sort of insulate the President. If he knew that she had committed these violations, then why did he go ahead and, and make the appointment? Was that an error of judgment? There seems to be an effort to leave it a little bit murky and a little bit unclear to insulate the President. Right now, the last we heard from George Stephanopoulos was that he said that he didn't think Zoe Baird had discussed this matter with the President but simply had discussions with other members of the transition team. So we don't know the answer and I think it's important that we learn it.

MR. LEHRER: There are also a lot of things going around that, well, there's more involved here than the immigration thing, that there are people who are opposed to Zoe Baird because she's a corporate lawyer rather than a heavy civil rights lawyer. If that's the case, that doesn't, that doesn't seem to jive with the fact that the Democrats, who are falling over the side, are conservatives from the South rather than the liberals who identify in the civil rights movement. Can you add anything to that about - - are there other agendas besides the one they're talking about?

MS. CHEH: It appears as though there are other agendas, and to make them all fit, I think in the first instance this opposition is being driven by something that no one quite anticipated or certainly didn't anticipate in its degree, that is, the basic grassroots opposition coming from constituents with phone calls to the Senator saying that they do not like what this nominee has done, and they don't think she's qualified. Once that begins to take shape, once Senators start getting worried that they may be forced to take a position contrary to their constituents' view of this, and the constituents can relate rather directly to what went on here -- this is not a complicated scandal, if you will.

MR. LEHRER: And the facts aren't even at issue.

MS. CHEH: No.

MR. LEHRER: It's not who said what to whom. We know who said what to whom and who did what to whom.

MS. CHEH: Although, you know, there were aspects in the hearing where some of the further details came out, and to make that point, there's been a lot of talk about the hiring, of course, of these illegal aliens, violation of the immigration law, but then when you add to that and the realization starts to dawn that there's also this failure to pay Social Security taxes. Then we find out that there's a failure to pay state unemployment taxes and a failure to file requisite forms. Now the person sitting on Main Street says, I pay my taxes, I have to file the forms. This is somebody who may have thought she was above the law or indifferent to the law, and that rankles and they don't like it.

MR. KLAIDMAN: But the problem with this is for Zoe Baird is it's an eminently understandable violation of rules. This is not some kind of an abstruse, difficult to understand conflict of interest. This is something that touches millions of Americans all over this country, and that's a big problem for her.

MR. LEHRER: And there's also the other element that goes beyond the legal technicalities, which is that by not putting people on Social Security, you deny them benefits later on when they do, do, in fact, need them. In other words, I'm talking now about two Peruvian aliens that her folks, that she and her husband hired. Now, what does it say to you that they're going to call her husband tomorrow?

MS. CHEH: It says to me that the committee has lost control. The chairman wanted to deal with the statements from the husband by affidavit in writing. I'm sure it was not --

MR. LEHRER: Sen. Biden.

MS. CHEH: That's right. Sen. Biden, the Democratic Senator. He indicated that the minority members were asking that the husband be called. As an attorney in cases, I know that the worst thing for your side is to rehash through yet another witness the case against you. The fact that the husband will appear itself can only be bad news for Zoe Baird because, of course, they cover all that ground again.

MR. LEHRER: They'll just take him through it.

MS. CHEH: That's right.

MR. LEHRER: You knew this but you didn't do this and you didn't do that, and you did this willingly.

MS. CHEH: Absolutely. There was also some indication from the chair, or from Sen. Biden, that yet other witnesses that we don't even know about may be lining up to testify against her, and again it illustrates the hemorrhaging.

MR. LEHRER: On this issue or other issues?

MS. CHEH: They may -- it was unclear -- they may testify against her substantively, but the fact of the matter is, it's a hemorrhaging of her case and she's greatly weakened, maybe irreparably, unless the President comes four square and supports the nomination.

MR. LEHRER: Well, let's talk about that then. I mean, the -- you -- I've also -- it's been written in the last couple of days since this thing has begun to take off a little bit that, wait a minute, President Clinton's got a real problem and it's the Jimmy Carter problem. Remember, Ted Sorenson, his nominee to be director of Central Intelligence, some problems were raised, and he, he, Carter, let Sorenson withdraw, and he never quite recovered from that as far as Congress is concerned. He was perceived to be weak. Is that a valid situation here, do you think?

MR. KLAIDMAN: Well, it's obviously something that Clinton and his advisers are thinking about. The question is, will be he perceived weaker by withdrawing Zoe Baird, or weaker by using her in a vote? And I think if she goes down after the Senate Judiciary Committee votes or the full Senate votes, that is a huge political defeat for him, so he's got to make that decision, and, you know, the fight's not over yet for Zoe Baird. I mean, I think that she has a real problem because she doesn't have the traditional liberal groups who, you know, who could come to her side. She's not viewed as a - - identified as someone active in the women's groups, for example, so the women's groups are not actively or aggressively defending her. She's not -- doesn't have a lot of experience in the civil rights movement, so those groups aren't coming to her side. She - - part of her problem is that she's a real moderate, and --

MR. LEHRER: And moderates have enemies on both sides.

MR. KLAIDMAN: Moderates have enemies on both sides, and they don't excite anyone to support them on either side. And so --

MR. LEHRER: So it's either President Clinton or nobody, is that what you're saying?

MR. KLAIDMAN: Well, that's the way it looks now.

MR. LEHRER: And right now you're looking around and seeing nobody.

MR. KLAIDMAN: Nobody. I think President Clinton's response so far has been, as Mary said, tepid.

MR. LEHRER: But, Mary, my impression -- you were watching it much more carefully than I was -- watching the hearings today -- my impression was that Zoe Baird, herself, forget all these other folks, what they're up to -- she's determined to fight. And is that your reading?

MS. CHEH: I think she's determined, and I think that her intensity increased today because as she was pressed about why she could have the credibility and the effectiveness to serve as attorney general, she continually said, look, please, at my whole record, look and anticipate what I would do. I have the managerial skills. I have the commitment. I have dedicated to you that I will run this department in a professional, independent manner, I have the background and the possibility, she said, to be a great attorney general. She has not wavered one bit, but she can't do it by herself now.

MR. LEHRER: Yeah. And it really does boil down to once you cut through it all, it's the problem we saw that Sen. Pressler articulated in that clipping that whatever else he may be, the problem is here you would have an attorney general of the United States enforcing laws that she willingly violated. Is that really what it's all about?

MS. CHEH: That's really what it's all about. It's a matter of credibility, a matter of effectiveness, and on top of that, there's a contradiction here. She comes before the committee saying that her primary qualification is her promise to run the Department with integrity and professionalism, and yet she comes in herself as an admitted law breaker. The dissonance there between those two positions may be too great.

MR. KLAIDMAN: The symbolism is very, very powerful. Consider this, if Zoe Baird had committed the infractions as an employee of the INF, the Border Patrol Guard, for example, she would either be reprimanded or could lose their job. And if she were applying for a job at the INS and in the background check, they turned this up, she would not be hired likely.

MR. LEHRER: What does your reporting instinct tell you about what's going to happen here? I hate to do that to you, but that's what I do for a living, so what do you think?

MR. KLAIDMAN: I still think she survived. I think it's going to be very tough, and I think we may know by some time, mid day tomorrow.

MR. LEHRER: Mary.

MS. CHEH: There's serious consternation I'm sure among the Clinton people, and all I can say is unless they come out solidly and say we want this nomination, she will be lost.

MR. LEHRER: And do it on strong political grounds, I need this - -

MS. CHEH: Absolutely.

MR. LEHRER: I'm the new President, you can't hand me this defeat, Democrats.

MS. CHEH: Absolutely. It's got to be on that basis.

MR. LEHRER: If you want a post office in your state, you got to do it, right? I see. Thank you both very much.

MS. CHEH: Thank you.

MR. MacNeil: Still ahead, regional editors and President Clinton's open house. FOCUS - EDITORS' VIEWS

MR. MacNeil: We turn now to outside-the-beltway reaction to the messages from Washington. We get it from our panel of regional editors and commentators, Ed Baumeister of the Trenton, New Jersey Times, Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune, Lee Cullum, a columnist with the Dallas Morning News, Erwin Knoll of Progressive Magazine, published in Madison, Wisconsin, Cynthia Tucker of the Atlanta Constitution, and Gerald Warren of the San Diego Union. Ed Baumeister, as we've just heard, and let me add to this, this fact, there are more voices being raised out in the country calling on Zoe Baird to withdraw. For instance, Barbara Jordan, a very influential former Congresswoman from Texas, apparently it is the rage on the radio talk show circuit now. What do you and your paper think should happen, that she should withdraw? What do you think?

MR. BAUMEISTER: We discussed it on Tuesday in the editorial board and decided that it wasn't that big a deal, although we may have made a misjudgment. In the excerpt we just heard, I found an almost amusing line to hear Sen. Cole say to her, you want to be respected as much as anybody else in government. I mean, his club, the Senate, there's two Senators in the Pacific Northwest who've been, one out and one under investigation for sexual harassment. There was a savings & loan thing. I think a lot of people outside the beltway allow for a certain amount of behavioral slippage on the part of people in Washington, and I've not yet heard, although maybe tomorrow after these hearings I will hear that people really do want her not to be confirmed.

MR. MacNeil: Cynthia Tucker, should she withdraw?

MS. TUCKER: Well, I think so. And the Atlanta Constitution's editorial page has said so. If she really wants to serve her President and serve her country, then she should step aside. This was a mistake I think and whether Bill Clinton did it on purpose or blundered into it we don't know, but the Justice Department has suffered a very bad reputation over the last 12 years. It has not been a bash in the professionalism or integrity or credibility. Bill Clinton came in saying he was going to bring change, he was going to have very high ethics, and Zoe Baird is a very flawed nominee in that regard. She will be in the position of saying to the American people do as I say, not as I do, or as I did. And I think that's a very fundamental mistake. But I have to say I also think a lot of professional women with children disagree with me. I've spoken to many mothers who think she should be cut a lot of slack on this issue.

MR. MacNeil: Gerry Warren, should she withdraw?

MR. WARREN: Well, I would have said no if you asked me that four hours earlier today, but I think now to, to help her President, she probably should withdraw, Robin. We have here a case of selective ethics. What is required for the man and woman in the street is not required of a, a wealthy attorney and her husband, and I think the American people are responding to that. You must set a single standard. As Cynthia said, Mr. Clinton set a very high standard for himself, for the country, and for his administration, and now he's, he's seeing that that standard isn't being applied in a case where this woman made a mistake not in her youth but very, very recently as a mature attorney.

MR. MacNeil: Erwin Knoll, what's your view?

MR. KNOLL: Well, I think I have a theory as to some of those phone calls that are flooding into Washington, because I've spoken to a number of young women, working mothers, who make great sacrifices to provide day care for their children, and they're simply outraged that this affluent couple should have felt it necessary to cut corners and break the law, when they obey the law and follow the rules in order to take care of their kids. Now, on the other issue, The Progressive felt before the matter of hiring undocumented immigrants came up that this was a poor appointment because Zoe Baird has a record as a corporate lawyer of being militantly opposed to consumer interests. Her attitude on consumer rights was much closer to Dan Quayle than to the administration's supposed interest in defending the rights of ordinary people.

MR. MacNeil: In fact, in the hearing today she was asked about a speech she made last year in which she said, as Dan Quayle frequently did, that court law, and all the claims against the company, was undermining the competitiveness of American business.

MR. KNOLL: Yes. And that's a corporate line that does not serve the interests of consumers.

MR. MacNeil: Lee Cullum, what's your view? Should she withdraw?

MS. CULLUM: Robin, I have to tell you that as a woman I find this to be a very, very painful subject. My newspaper hasn't editorialized yet about it so I have to speak personally. I feel that President Clinton has a right to this appointment if it's the appointment that he wants. I think what she did is regrettable. I wish it hadn't happened, but I think he would be wise to continue with the nomination and to back her.

MR. MacNeil: And, let me see, Clarence Page.

MR. PAGE: Yes, it's a very tough call, Robin. I was sitting over here hiding, but you called on me anyway. Let me say that I personally don't think that this is enough reason for her to be forced out. For the politically pragmatic reasons that Gerry Warren mentioned I think it might be the best thing politically for Clinton to do so, but I think it's a shame on another level because I don't begrudge Zoe Baird this violation of the rules any more than I'd begrudge say a waiter or a waitress for failing to report all their tips. Yes, it's a crime, but it's a minor crime in the sense -- I call it a yuppie crime. It's the kind of a crime that is like smoking marijuana back in college or burning a draft card. It's going to come up again and again, and I'm afraid it's going to bite some more government appointees. The fact is this is a very common problem that touches a lot of other problems in our society, the lack of day care, a hypocritical policy regarding undocumented workers, and there may be a lot of good reasons to oppose Zoe Baird, some of which my colleague at The Progressive there, Erwin Knoll, just listed, but I don't think this particular reason is a good one. I must add my editorial board was quite divided over this issue, and everybody I talked to, whether right or left, was quite divided over it.

MR. MacNeil: Gerry Warren, you heard Jim talking about the Theodore Sorenson analogy or example from Carter's first days in office. Which course damages President Clinton least right now? What should he do to emerge from this as a strong President in his first days in office vis-a-vis the Congress and the public and everything else?

MR. WARREN: I think the best course for him is to send Warren Christopher and Vernon Jordan to see Zoe Baird and her husband tonight and say, look, we can get you confirmed but it's going to cost the President a lot of political value here, and you are going to be damaged as an effective, potential effective attorney general. The transition team, I think, is to blame here. They forced this nomination through. Whether the President knew anything about it or not, the transition team certainly did in time to forestall this problem. I think the best thing now is for them to cut their losses.

MR. MacNeil: But, Lee, you think he should insist if he wants her?

MS. CULLUM: Yes, I do, Robin. I'm inclined to think that he made the appointment. She seems to be well qualified, and I talked to one or two businessmen in Dallas who think maybe she's not sufficiently a heavyweight, but that's their point of view. Her record seems to be exemplary, except in this one regrettable area in her own household, and I believe he should stand by her.

MR. LEHRER: Ed.

MR. BAUMEISTER: Well, I respect Gerry's long experience in Washington, but from where I sit, if Clinton gives this up without a fight on the second day of his administration without anybody, without presenting his nose to be popped, I think he'll lose much more than if he goes through with the fight. I think, I think Lee is right. He could come out and say, listen, I want this woman and this is why. And if he loses, he at least loses in a fight. If he loses without a fight, I think he weakens himself even more.

MR. MacNeil: Cynthia.

MS. TUCKER: Well, it may be true that President Clinton is stuck politically at this point. I think Ed was probably right, that he needs to put up a fight, that Congress will have absolutely no respect for him if he doesn't. On the other hand, if he wins, and he may will, then I don't think he'll ever have the kind of Justice Department that he said he wanted. I also think he will be stuck for the long-term with a flawed immigration policy. He will have a hard time having any credibility on the entire issue of immigration. Remember that he's just reversed himself on a major campaign pledge. He said that he would rescind President Bush's policy on Haiti. He reversed himself. Now, he has sent off a flotilla or follows President Bush's decision, sends off a flotilla to block the Haitians from coming to this country. Either the immigration laws in this country need to be fully enforced, or they don't. And I think he's setting himself up for a major problem on the entire issue of immigration.

MR. MacNeil: When we asked you here this evening, all of you, we didn't know we were going to be spending all this time on Zoe Baird. Clarence Page, she is part of the picture obviously, but with a day to digest it, how do you feel about the total reality of Clinton's accession?

MR. PAGE: Well, the reaction that I've picked up from people outside the beltway and myself is that it was an adequate acceptance speech that Mr. Clinton gave and that it was a good week for him. I think what's remarkable about Bill Clinton is that he generates a sense in a lot of people across the country that he has a potential to be a great President, and the people are rooting for him for the good of the country, not just for Bill Clinton but for the good of the country, and that is working in his favor right now. The Zoe Baird thing hurts him though.

MR. MacNeil: Erwin Knoll, with a day to reflect, how do you feel about Clinton's inauguration?

MR. KNOLL: Well, Robin, you asked Clarence about the total reality of it. My feeling was that ever so much of it was unreal. I'm glad that whole festival is over. I've never seen so many sequins on dresses in all my life. This is supposed to be a populous President. And all we saw was, was glitz and glitter. I'm glad that's over. I've read the inaugural address now half a dozen times. In fact, I have it in front of me right now. I was looking at it before we went on the air, looking for meaning, looking for more than, than sonorous, empty phrases, but the meaning of this administration is still to be defined by the President. And if I may revert back to the previous point, I think it would be too bad if he made the first big fight over his presidency in defense of what is clearly a bad appointment and a bad call.

MR. MacNeil: What I pick up -- and you know we're all fallible in these things, because it's what you read and what you hear -- is quite a lot of the -- Clinton's arrival in office having made people, Americans feel good about their country, quite a lot of Americans. You just don't -- that has not changed your emotion.

MR. KNOLL: I guess I'm not of the mainstream. It's not the first time, Robin.

MR. MacNeil: Lee.

MS. CULLUM: No, it certainly isn't, Erwin. I have to tell you I love a festival, and I don't mind the sequins at all. I think we need it every now and then, we need to cheer ourselves up. I think it's been a wonderful week. I do feel in re-reading the speech I find only four paragraphs out of twenty-six devoted to the state of the world. The rest was addressed to the nation, and I understand that, that Clinton wants to be a domestic President, and he needs to be. But I think now he needs to give a lot of thought to how he's going to project American power in the world. That's what has to come next.

MR. MacNeil: What about the signals he sent today by -- in those very brief statements, in effect, re-endorsing the Bush policy again today of responding with violence to the Iraqi challenges?

MS. TUCKER: I think he sent the correct signal. I think he was firm in the continuity from the Bush administration to his own, and I think he was right in his response.

MR. MacNeil: How does the, 24 hours later, the whole inauguration and the arrival of Clinton strike you now?

MR. BAUMEISTER: Well, I was, I was nearly awakened by public reaction. I drove back from Washington yesterday and stopped for gas in Maryland and encountered a woman who'd seen me on your broadcast yesterday grousing about the Clinton speech, and she said, "You weren't being fair to that man. You be fair to that man." There's an enormous reservoir out there of, of good feeling about him, and good feeling about people, themselves, that this change has finally happened. So I think at the moment anyway this evening he's got the capital to come out and if Zoe Baird has the fight to make it, but he needs to do it sooner.

MR. MacNeil: Cynthia, the total Clinton picture?

MS. TUCKER: I think Ed is absolutely right. I think there is something about Bill Clinton that has Americans very excited. I think he's probably more popular today than he was when he was elected on November 3rd. There is something about the man that brings a sense of unity to the country, a sense of optimism, a sense that America can, indeed, tackle and solve its very difficult problems, and I thought yesterday's pageantry was a lot of fun. I didn't mind the sequins either.

MR. MacNeil: All right. Gerry Warren.

MR. WARREN: Well, I guess I'm the lone holdout. I think it was a fine speech. I think he set the right tone. I was reassured on the international scene when he recognized that this is a less dangerous world, but still an unstable world and he called for diplomacy backed up by force. I like the fact that he set the tone of reform and renewal for the American political system. I think that's very important, and I like the fact that he called for everyone in the United States to take responsibility for the actions. I hope that Congress was listening. I think it was a good start. I believe in fairness, and I think we need to be fair to this President and give him a chance to, to flesh out his policy. An inaugural address is not the time to do that. The inaugural address is where you set a theme and ask the American people to join you in a crusade. And I think he did that.

MR. MacNeil: Gerry, watching your colleagues in that excerpt from the first press conference, White House press conference today, do you feel that the press has Clinton on a shorter leash than it has had other new Presidents?

MR. WARREN: No, I don't. I think they're holding Clinton and George Stephanopoulos to a single standard. They're saying we were tough on your predecessors and we're going to be tough on you. That's why it is so important for this group to sit down and say, all right, let's don't let this thing fester, let's don't make this the, the guiding principle by which the, the Clinton administration will be judged. I really think they have to play some hard ball politics here, and say, we're sorry, Zoe Baird, but there was a mistake made, and we bear some of that responsibility, but so do you, and we're going to try again.

MR. MacNeil: How do you feel, Clarence Page, about the initial press reception to the new administration?

MR. PAGE: Well, I think it is our abiding duty in the media to be tough on every administration, and that's some of what happened today. I happened to be over at the White House press room today and people seemed particularly surly. I'm not sure how to explain that, but part of it --

MR. MacNeil: Can you explain it? I mean, I wasn't there. Why were they surly?

MR. PAGE: I don't know. Well, it just seemed like there were a lot of complaints being voiced about the way information was being handled, and there's a nice way, a tough way to do that. People just seemed kind of tough, and maybe Gerry Warren has touched on something in that reporters are sensitive to the charge that the media have a liberal bias that hurt George Bush, and I think a lot of my colleagues are out to prove we don't.

MR. MacNeil: What -- what would you say back to your -- the woman who talked to you this morning, and said, don't be so tough on him, give him a chance?

MR. BAUMEISTER: I would say what the ambassador meant to say was that it was disappointing because it wasn't what it could have been. He embraced Kennedy frequently during the campaign. He had a fair amount of time. He knew on January 20th he was going to, to deliver it. I went back today and read some other speeches, Vaclav Havel three years ago saying, I dream of a republic economically prosperous, yet socially just, a humane republic which served the individual, and which, therefore, holds the hope that the individual will serve it in turn, nothing like that. These are simple words. That he couldn't get anyone to help him do better I think is disappointing.

MR. MacNeil: So, Lee, looking at it from Dallas, how do you think the press has received Clinton?

MS. CULLUM: I think the press is receiving Clinton rather well in Dallas, and I was interested in Ed Baumeister's mention of Havel. You know, Havel said to Barbara Walters a couple of years ago that what we need is integrating personalities in leadership, and I think Clinton may be an integrating personality. He really may integrate old and young and male and female and black and white, and that's what we have to fervently hope for.

MR. MacNeil: Well, I'd like to thank you, Lee, and all five of you for joining us tonight. FOCUS - OPENING DAY

MR. LEHRER: Finally tonight, that open house to end all open houses. President Clinton had some people over to his new house today, hundreds of people from all over the United States. Mrs. Clinton and Vice President and Mrs. Gore were also in the receiving line in the White House diplomatic reception rooms. The people were drawn by lot by the National Park Service from thousands who sent their names in by postcard. Here's an excerpt from life on the receiving line.

BILL CLINTON: Matthew is having the best time of anybody. Thank you, Robert. Where are you from?

ROBERT: Los Angeles.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Thank you so much for being here. You brought Matthew all across the country to the inaugural?

WOMAN: We wanted to have him shaking your hand for his infomercial when he runs for President.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: This is my youngest handshake. How old is he?

WOMAN: Four weeks.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Four weeks. Clinton shakes hands with citizen who has appropriate response. [laughter in room] Just another day at the office for Matthew. Thanks. I'm honored that you brought your child. Thank you. Hi, Ann. Hello, Tom. Where are you from?

TOM: Burke, Virginia.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Great.

ANN: I'm a nurse at Georgetown.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Oh, good for you.

ANN: On the oncology unit. During the next eight years I want you to come by for a visit.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Thank you. Thank you. We'll work hard today too and tomorrow. Great. This is your birthday?

SPOKESMAN: She's 12-years-old today.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Well, Happy Birthday.

VICE PRESIDENT GORE: You all help us sing, this is Stephanie's 12th birthday.

[EVERYONE IN ROOM SINGING HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO STEPHANIE]

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Good for you, kiddo. Did we embarrass you? Will you ever forgive us? Hey, Paul. How are you doing, pal? How old are you? I'm glad to see you. You look great today. Hi. Thank you for being here. Thank you. Hi, Patrick. Thank you so much for being here. Hi, how are you. Thank you for being here. [people talking to Clinton] Hello. Good to see you. Thank you, sir. Thank you both. Have a good day.

CAROL LIGGINS: Carol Liggins.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Hi, Carol.

CAROL LIGGINS: I'm Carol Liggins, and I want to tell you and your wife I've been praying for this day a long time. And I love both of you and the Lord and everything else!

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Thank you, thank you. Bless you. How are you doing?

CAROL LIGGINS: I'm so happy for you I could cry.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Thank you. Thank you for coming today.

OLDER WOMAN: I came up from Florida.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: It's great. Thank you.

OLDER WOMAN: I worked for Harry Truman. [voice trailing off]

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Thank you. Thank you.

SAM: [dressed in Uncle Sam costume] I'm Uncle Sam from Raleigh. I voted for you. I left the Republican Party and voted for you and worked for you.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Thank you.

SAM: I think you're going to do good.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Thank you.

SAM: And there's never been a president that's facing so many things as you face, and you're a good politician.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Thank you.

SAM: And I believe you're a very good statesman, and you got a fine wife and you got a fine daughter.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Thank you.

SAM: And I've come from Raleigh on the bus to see you.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Thank you for being here.

SAM: I'm a heart patient, but I did want to come.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Thank you. Want to give me a hug? How old are you?

CHILD: Four.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Four. You're a beautiful boy, and you're so well-dressed. I love your suit and your tie. Thank you. Where you from?

MAN: Kentucky, Northern Kentucky.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Good for you.

MAN: You're the first person besides Wendell Ford that I ever voted for --

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Thank you. Thank you.

MAN: [trailing voice] -- I'd like to thank you for this opportunity.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Fantastic. Hi, Jill. How are you doing?

JILL: This is my first election that I voted in.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Where are you from?

JILL: Virginia.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Good to see you. Hello, Michelle. Thank you.

MICHELLE: I'm so excited.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: I'm glad you're here.

MICHELLE: I don't know how you can be standing after everything you've gone through this week.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: I've had two long nights but I'll be all right. Tonight I'll get some good sleep. The three of us have the same name. [little boy, man and Clinton standing together] First time I really bomb I'm going to blame it on them and say they did it.

MAN: Thank you, Mr. President.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Thank you. RECAP

MR. LEHRER: Again, the major stories of this Thursday, in addition to the big Clinton open house, U.S. planes attacked an Iraqi air defense facility after being targeted by Iraqi radar. Opposition from the Senate and elsewhere continued to mount against the confirmation of Zoe Baird to be attorney general, but Ms. Baird told the Senate Judiciary Committee she was not considering withdrawing. Good night, Robin.

MR. MacNeil: Good night, Jim. That's the NewsHour for tonight. We'll be back tomorrow night with a wrap-up of the week's political news with Gergen & Shields. I'm Robert MacNeil. Good night.