The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer; April 20, 2007

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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Now we're data, video, voice, and now wireless work together for the way they live. Welcome to the new AT&T, your world delivered. The world's demand for energy will never stop, which is why a farmer is growing corn,

and a farmer is growing soy, and why ADN is turning these crops into biofuels. The world's demand for energy will never stop, which is why ADN will never stop. We're only getting started. ADN, resourceful by nature. And by Chevron, Pacific Life, the Atlantic Philanthropies, the National Science Foundation, with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. And this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting, and by contributions to your PBS station from viewers like you. Thank you. The family of the Virginia Tech killer, Song We Joe, spoke out today, saying they never

could have envisioned he was capable of so much violence. It was their first word since Joe shot 32 people and himself on Monday. His sister issued a statement that said, our family is so very sorry for my brother's unspeakable actions. It is a terrible tragedy for all of us. The Joe said they feel hopeless, helpless, and lost. The family statement came on a national day of mourning for Joe's victims. There were vigils close to coast, and on Virginia Tech's campus, hundreds of people paused for a moment of silence at noon. In Richmond, Governor Tim Cain said the killings and the human loss have touched the world. If you've had a chance to read the biographies, the short stories of those who were killed, you just uncover marvelous stories, marvelous stories of joy and learning, of friendships, of hobbies and avocations pursued with passion, of the thrill of teaching and educating

generations of students. We'll have more on the day's observances and on the victims later in the program tonight. A new debate erupted in Washington today on U.S. policy in Iraq. The vigorous back and forth was triggered by a statement made by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. He said yesterday, this war is lost, and the Secretaries of State and Defense know it. That brought a sharp response at the State Department today from spokesman Sean McCormick. Senator Reid is a legislator. He should stick to that and not try to be a mind reader. Secretary is in no way conveyed any such idea to Senator Reid or anybody else. Secretary Rice would never countenance continuing to send young American and women to Iraq in pursuit of a strategy that she didn't think had a chance of success. She would never continue to commit resources.

That led to a new statement by Senator Reid this afternoon on the Senate floor. He did not say the war is lost again, but he did not retract those words either. The longer we continue down the President's path, the further we will be from responsibly ending this war. But there is still a chance to change course, and we must change course. The partisans who launch attacks on my comments are the same ones who continue to support a failed strategy that hurts our troops. We'll have more on this story right after the news summary. Secretary Gates spent a second day in Iraq and said he was modestly optimistic after what he seemed. He met with a defense minister and with Prime Minister Al Maliki. He said he urged him to make political progress. Gates also warned that U.S. support will not last forever. Our commitment to Iraq is long term, but it is not a commitment to have our young men and

women patrolling Iraq's streets open-endedly. It is a commitment to work with the Iraqis to ensure their sovereignty, train their legitimate security forces, and provide support for security, sector reform, and modernization. As Secretary Gates was visiting Baghdad, U.S. and Iraqi troops had a fierce battle with gunmen in the city, to suspected insurgents were killed in the fighting around a Shiite mosque. And another U.S. marine was killed by rocket fire south of Baghdad last night. So far this month, 69 Americans have died. The overall total is now 3,360 U.S. deaths since the war began. In addition, 10 British soldiers have died in April, with two more killed yesterday. In Vermont, the state Senate called today for impeaching President Bush and Vice President

Cheney over Iraq, a non-binding resolution cited their actions in Iraq, and at home. It said, quote, they raise serious questions of constitutionality and abuse of the public trust. State lawmakers in Wisconsin and Washington state have pushed for similar resolutions. Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez won new support today from the White House, over firing U.S. attorneys. Gonzalez got a rough reception at a Senate hearing yesterday, 71 times, he said he could not remember various details. But today, spokeswoman Dana Perino said the attorney general was fully responsive to the Congress, and she said Gonzalez has done a fantastic job at the Justice Department. As quote, our number one crime fighter. The presidential campaign in France wound down today. The top contenders were a conservative pro-American former interior minister and a socialist trying to become the first woman elected president of France.

We have a report from Jonathan Rugman of Independent Television News. His rivals depict him as the right-wing raging bull of this campaign. But Nicola Sarkozy was happy to end it, down south today, with a joke at his own expense. He wouldn't believe it, he said, surrounded by prize specimens, but bulls are clever. They move from left to right. They must be careful not to fall off, he added. But though his hardman image scares some, the latest polls still have Sarkozy ahead of the pack. But, with one in three voters still undecided, his socialist rival is leaving nothing to chance. Segal Nroyal, this afternoon, hoping her smile would melt shopkeepers in the heart of Paris. For some 20,000 in Toulouse last night, she painted Sarkozy as a divisive brute, a lap dog of George Bush. But the man snapping at her heels is from Swabirou, an easy-going centrist farmer, the wild card of this battle for the Alise Palace.

Jean-Marie Le Penne, now 78, today claimed he breezed through as the national front leader did five years ago. The pen is a far-right nationalist, he made it into the runoff in 2002, but he lost to sitting president Jacques Chirac by a record margin. Chirac is not running this time. The top two vote-getters on Sunday will meet again on May 6, in a runoff. Nigeria also faces a presidential election this weekend after a campaign marked by violence. The African nation has seen decades of corruption and coups, and the opposition has warned the ruling party means to steal the vote. Today, jitters about the election sent world oil prices higher, Nigeria is a major oil producer. The World Bank's board of directors voiced great concern today over actions by its president Paul Wolfowitz. He said he was wrong to help his girlfriend get a high-paying job. Many bank staffers and European nations have demanded he resign.

The board today ordered an ad hoc group to review the matter. The U.S. House agreed today to let shareholders of public companies vote on executive pay. The votes would be non-binding, but Democrats said investors deserve a voice on huge salaries paid to company leaders. Most Republicans argued that Congress should stay out of corporate affairs. On Wall Street today, strong corporate earnings lifted prices to another record-breaking day. How Jones industrial average gained 153 points to close just below 12962, a new high. The Nasdaq rose 21 points to close at 2526. For the week, the Dow gained almost 3 percent. The Nasdaq rose nearly 1.5 percent. That's it for the news summary tonight, now the latest turn in the Iraq war debate. Shields and Brooks battling the Taliban.

Who was able to buy a gun and mourning the dead from Virginia Tech? The war of words over funding the Iraq war heated up in Washington late this week. It was yesterday when the Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid spoke to reporters. I believe myself that the Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, and you have to make your own decisions toward the President knows that this war is lost and that the surge is not accomplishing anything as indicated by the extreme violence in Iraq yesterday. Less than 24 hours later and some 6,000 miles away in Baghdad, the man in charge of the war, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said that's not the case. I would say that I have a great respect for Senator Reid and on this, on the matter of

whether the war is lost, I respectfully disagree. In Michigan, today President Bush maintained keeping American troops safe should have no strings attached. I just disagree with the notion that when we have troops and harms way that there ought to be a kind of political process with strings attached to a piece of legislation that goes to fund our troops. As I say, there's ample time to discuss right or wrong. I don't believe there's ample time to delay funding for men and women who have volunteered. But Reid, speaking on the Senate floor today, said the President has let down those same men and women. An effective strategy is exactly what we're offering the President and our troops. No more, no less. Let's all understand. Changing course in Iraq will increase America's security by bringing this war to a responsible land. Mr. President, I believe supporting our troops means giving them the funding they need

and a strategy they deserve. It means stopping the partisan attacks and it means spending time working together on a bipartisan basis to develop an effective strategy to successfully end this war. I wish some of my detractors felt the same. Reid added it was not too late for changing direction on the Iraq policy. And the analysis of shields and Brooks, syndicated columnist Mark Shields and New York Times columnist David Brooks. David, it's been a full week. We lost 180, almost 200 Iraqis in fighting just on one day this week. We had the words of Senator Reid getting reaction from the White House. We had the meeting between the President, the leader of Democratic leaders this week. Are we any closer to seeing the two sides coming together on funding? Not really. I think they will come together. They had a meeting where they said they were civil to each other. Though Bush was a little angry at Reid for some of the things he said. And I think at the end of the day, we will have a political showdown.

There will be maybe a veto of the Democratic bill. But then after that, there will be funding. I don't think Democrats want to be responsible for cutting off funding. And the bottom line is what's happening in Iraq, the bombing you mentioned, the nearly 200 dead. That's going to, at the end of the day, be determinative. Next week, David Petraeus, the general leader is coming here. He's going to meet with the Democrats. He's going to meet with a lot of people in Washington. And he'll be able to report something back. Yes or no. And I must say, the last week's events make it much more skeptical that the surge is working. But we'll see. So Mark, are we just going through the motions with these words? If we're leading, you're heading to a deal. Is David was saying? No. I don't think we're going through the motions. But the mandatory date that the House included in its resolution will be removed. And they'll go agree with the Senate, which has a date, a goal instead. But I think when they'll come back with, after the veto that David has described, which I think it surpasses both houses, will the President, will veto his promise, is they'll come back with benchmarks.

And I think it's going to be tough for the President then to veto that, that there's no date involved. And I think those benchmarks include things like the oil revenues and things because it's not binding. It's not, but it does impose upon him an obligation to report to the Congress on the progress of those. And I think the benchmarks become tougher to reach for the Iraqi government duty because 200 shears get blown up this week. And it's the shears who have to agree to the compromise in the government to give these concessions to the Sunnis whom they see as their tormentors and their nemesis at this point. So I think the monarchy government has a very tough chore ahead of it to meet what I think are probably legitimate benchmarks, but maybe unreachable. So harder for the President to veto David. And you said the more deaths coming out of Iraq, the more pressure there is on whom? Well, there's pressure on both sides.

I mean, Harry Reid put his foot in it by saying he thought it was hopeless and the Republicans are pounced on that. But you know, I think the fundamental fact is that it's going to be determined on the ground. And one thing I heard from Emmanuel, the Democrat from Illinois, say this week, was we need to get some position where in August we have some objective source that everybody can trust saying the surge is working or not working. Because now you really got two realities, a lot of Republicans saying it's working, Democrats saying it's not working. We get to late August, and no one can reach any agreement on how we're doing in Iraq, then we really will be in a mess. And they talked about putting together some sort of bipartisan commission to do that. A good idea. So we're talking four or five months from now. I think what we'll have is a series of votes, Judy, and I think they'll probably become in the form of what's called a continuing resolution instead of to fund the war, probably for 60 days at a time, and so that there will be a forced renewal, a forced reconsideration by the Congress and the administration. And quite honestly, the Democrats see that to their advantage that Republicans continue

to go on record Republican House and Senate members voting to support and endorse the president's policies in Iraq, which, as we know, have lost and continue to lose public support in the country. The Senator, the Senator's comments, that the war has lost, that help is caught, hurt him. I mean, it was not helpful to him as a majority leader by any means, and it gave the Republicans a great opening to say he's letting the troops down. The way to say it is that the American troops fought bravely, effectively, with great skill, great courage. They won the military war, now they're mired because of the failed leadership of the civilians in a civil war, which they can't win, and from which they want to be extracted and ought to be. I mean, that's, I think, would have been a better way of phrasing it, and that's not, it is not helpful to his side. Now Bertow Gonzalez, David, where does he stand? He spent what? Five-hour, more than five hours before the Senate Judiciary Committee yesterday.

It was not a great mental moment for Senator Gonzalez. Byron York, a national review online, who follows this for National Review of the Conservative Magazine, called it a disastrous, I think that's about sums it up. It was disheartening on many levels. The Casey cut tried to make, which I made these decisions, but I didn't really do it with a lot of knowledge. That's a great Bush administration slogan. We make our decisions without any knowledge of our decisions. And I think it's disheartening for a lot of people, because it reflects on the president. This guy is a perfectly nice guy, but clearly not up to the task of attorney general. And a lot of people say, you know, this reflects very poorly on Bush. Why would he choose? But the president is the White House has piled on the statement praising him today, Dan O'Rina White House. Very solitary White House at this point, the republic in the Senate. She said he'd do a fantastic job. Yeah, hell of a job, Al Barito. No, there's no sport there. There's really no support. You saw it at the republicans in the Senate. Even the republicans who tried to help him in that committee, he couldn't follow their

lead because he wasn't with it enough. There's no support there. So where does this go? I mean, he's all alone. I mean, it's rather sad and solitary figure. I mean, President Bush is his only friend and supporter in this town. He's a man without a constituency. They're in the Congress or really in the country. He was a George Bush protege, from a law firm, and made his counsel in Texas as governor and continued along with him. And I think David's right, I think he's been elevated to a position that's beyond his capability. Being the Attorney General is an enormously difficult job. And the speculation I heard today from republicans was going to be next. And that may be Senator Orrin Hatch, a view to by being his sole and most vocal defender on the Judiciary Committee yesterday, may have made the case for himself to get that job. So maybe is Karl Rove vulnerable next? We interviewed the chairman, Senator. We interviewed Chairman Lehi and Senator Spector yesterday, and they both talked about

wanting to get those emails. Yeah, well, we'll see. You know, they've been going after Karl Rove, and this is the great dream for Democrats to get Karl Rove finally. He's the great white whale floating out there. And every few months there seems to be an attempt, they think they're going to get him whether it's playing or this, they never seem to get him. So I'll preserve judgment on whether Karl Rove, Alberto Gonzalez was the guy who was in charge of this agency, and he was his agents. I don't know anybody, either in or out of the administration who believes that those emails just miraculously disappeared. I mean, it's a little bit like Rosemary Woods missing 18 minutes of tape in President Nixon. I mean, if anything, what's the appetite and the thirst of Democrats to see Karl Rove finally answer some questions on your oath? Virginia Tech, it's been a horrible week. The country is in mourning today, and we'll continue to be in mourning. David, what does it say? What are you thinking right now? Well, I'm thinking about the randomness of it.

It's hard to hold this kid responsible for it. I mean, we want to say, you know, there's great forces of evil, Satan acted through him, but when you look at that young man, he's someone who was mad, who was insane and who knows the trivial reason that caused it, whether there was a virus that affected his brain, whether there was isolation, a whole chain of events, but it's the absurdity of it all. Some virus infects his brain. He comes schizophrenic, whatever he was, and then 32 people die. And I think it's that absurdity between cause and effect and the sort of immorality of it that is undermining a lot of people morale, who say there's nothing to be gained from this. 32 people are dead because of who knows what? When you say virus infected his brain, you mean it birthed in itself. Yeah, I mean, when you look at what we now know a lot about why manness is caused. And for schizophrenia, sometimes there's a virus that gets into a fetal brain, and then it leads to lifelong effects. Sometimes there's an injury to the front of the lobe that leads to hyperaggression and depressive. Sometimes it's an inability to process serotonin, and so all this stuff that can create these horrible effects, and then it's trippy, a little biological, and chemical stuff.

It's not great clash of morality or anything. Where are we left? I don't disagree with David, I have a little different take on it, Judy, and all the wars that the United States fought in the 20th century, World War I, II, Vietnam, Korea, the first Persian Gulf, 659,763 Americans died. Since Ronald Reagan became president of the United States until George Bush was reelected, in 168,000 more people died, and all those wars died by firearms in the United States. Of the 26 developed nations in the world, 83% of all the people who died by firearms died in this country. And the idea that we can't do something, that this man, the David, is described, were the nine millimeter Glock semi-automatic pistol, and other countries only police officers have them. The fact that he could buy this, and with no check, really, made of him, is disturbing. Are we this great, pitiable, helpless, giant in dealing with this problem?

I mean, I think that we lack will, we lack imagination, we lack commitment to do something about it. Well, I don't disagree. I mean, the fact that he had the access to the firearms meant that instead of killing himself, he could kill 32 people. I think there's no question, nonetheless, when you start thinking about practically, what are there 280 million guns in this country? The kid is smart, he has access to the internet. If he wants to kill people, which he clearly did, he's going to get the stuff. And I'm not sure a gun control is going to affect his ability to kill a lot of people. He could do it with bombings. He'll find a weapon. What about the background question? I mean, we don't have background, we don't have real background checks. We have never beefed that up. I mean, we've shown no will, we've covered in front of the gun lobby in this country. Is that going to continue? Well, I mean, I think the Democrats were hardly kept in courageous this week. I mean, I didn't see them knocking each other over to get into the well of the House or the Senate to introduce tough legislation, any of the presidential candidates.

They were far more vocal on the Supreme Court decision on abortion. Then they were elbowing their way in front of cameras to emphasize their position, commitment, and all the rest of it. But they're scared, they're timid. They feel that they lost the Congress in 1994 because of the assault weapon ban. But I mean, it's just, it's just unthinkable. There is a majority in this country who want sensible restrictions. I'm not talking about taking away a waiting period, that's a real check, some weapons should just know there's no need to have magazines that can shoot 30 bullets in it. I agree with you, on this substance, I just don't think it'll be that effective. I think people who want to kill in this country with all these weapons will find a way to kill. And politically, Mark's right, there's just no way that Democrats are going to do this. You look at the key swing states, those Midwestern states, those are pro gun states. There's no way a national Democrat is going to put this on the agenda. All right, we're going to leave it there. We were going to get to the Supreme Court, but maybe we can talk about that next week. Mark Shields.

David Brooks. Meanwhile, the war in Afghanistan goes on. The United States and its allies combating a stubbornly resilient Taliban. We have a report from Southern Afghanistan, the correspondent is Alex Thompson, independent television news. He headed north, through and beyond Sangin town, Sangin itself, a ghost town. The Taliban pushed north of here. The population scattered by the fighting. And where there were Afghans, there are now Americans, Alpha Company of the 82nd, a commandeer to compound used as a supply depot by Taliban fighters, conditions are primitive. There is scarce, the dust and the dirt everywhere. There are times to kill here, but the Taliban's hidden run tactics, keep them an unseen force.

This is men trying to dominate the area, the founder of Alpha Company has come to appreciate that there are two types of Taliban fighter. Well, it's been pockets, it's been different pockets. We've had some pockets where we experience more resistance than others. Some pockets, they'll be sending effective fire on us and what I mean by effective fire is well aimed fire. And when we experience those, we know we're dealing with foreign fighters. But the ones that are just pop shots and sporadic fire and not well-aimed fire. We know those are more of the tier two guys that the Taliban used to sort of throw at us in hordes, you know, they use the local farmers to sort of do their dirty work form. And then wait for the key shots from the foreign fighters to fight us. Every day Alpha Company patrols the poppy fields around its fort, the heat seems tense, the tension of possible ambush, palpable.

If the deserted compounds are open, they're not. And enter and search. If they're locked, it's Salama Lakeham knocking your door down. Sorry. That's the lower leg of kicking your door in. Sorry. Is that really, bud? More problematic locks are blown off. The approach here is orderly and business-like. It's got to be done grid by grid. The commanding officer of Alpha Company told me a few moments ago, if there weren't just a few miles up the road, the chances of encountering a firefight would be all but 100%. These searches are done, frankly, with the minimum of fuss and interference, but they have turned up a number of large arms caches.

We found AKA's RPGs, several caches, like this. We found people would shoot at us and then go into a house and hide in case decks and dump their weapons, so it's around here, you just have to be lucky and find it. In one of the few occupied compounds, we find the man standing between the 82nd Airborne Division and the women and children. Suddenly, Lieutenant Malika's patrol comes upon some more villages who've returned. Instead, yes, we don't care about, from you, just we've scared from fighting. All right. Tell them we'll be in the area, and if they see, if they know any bad people, just find us and tell us. They say, OK, then, give us your mobile, we'll call you if you find any Taliban, but Lieutenant Malika doesn't have one.

OK. All right. That's it. Tell them, I think, we'll be on our way. More compounds, more suspicions, to be allowed. Do you have to check it out? Well, it's kind of suspicious, OK? Could be anything, I guess. But it's just what it says, a suitcase hanging on a wall, a document of value to intelligence officers or just an old film poster from somebody's bedroom. In the days we were in the area, we noticed a few families were at least beginning to return home. Some were confident enough to make a direct approach to the Americans, check my Hamid Khan, welcomes them here, but complained about the constant searches. Thank you. All right.

So they gave him a sheep. Four-year-old Aminulah, though, has more immediate problems. He's got a shrapnel wound in his leg. Hamidik says it's healing up well, and he'll be fine, his seven-year-old sister killed in the same blast. So it is that on the ground, soldiers attempt to deal with the pain and debris of war burning two cows killed by mortars. In the skies, attack helicopters quarter this river plain peremmence of the Taliban, a face with such overwhelming odds, they simply melt away. But are you, I don't know, are you defeating the Taliban, are you simply pushing them out of an area? Are they melting away? There's a difference, isn't it? Yes, it's a good question. I mean, yes, you can sweep them out, but they're just going to come right back. So in order to create a longer lasting security, you have to bring legitimate forces, security forces, and behind you that are going to be there the whole time.

That's the main effort, really, is when we bring in the Afghanistan army, and we bring in the Afghanistan police, that's their job is to sustain that security, maintain that security for long-lasting. That is what these soldiers are here for, about the poppy harvest, currently gathering pace all around them, they couldn't care less. Instead, this is the kind of thing that concerns the 82nd, their Humvee napalm death, a few days ago, and now, after two rocket-propelled grenade strikes, outside the fort, the body of Thor II is dove in by a landmine. And all the while the human cost is mounting primarily on Afghanistan civilians, but also on the Taliban, and the foreign and Afghan soldiers, as the 82nd return at sunset from the upper trolling north of Sangin, south of the town at Camp Bastion, they repatriate the body of 19-year-old Private Christopher Gray, a British soldier, and the going down

of the sun, and in the morning, we will remember them. They were shot dead on April the 13th, in a firefight with the Taliban. Now two Virginia Tech stories first look at one of the questions resonating from the shootings, background checks for weapons. Margaret Warner has the story. The Virginia Tech shooter, Sangui Jo, used two firearms to kill 32 people and himself in the Monday massacre.

The gun purchases were legal. On March 13th, he bought a Glock 19, 9-millimeter semi-automatic pistol at a row-and-out gun shop about 30 miles from campus. The store's owner is John Markel. They were no red flags kicked up that in any way. You got a clean bill of health in the state police. There's just no reason for me not to assault him the gun. Jo's other gun was a 22 caliber, Walter semi-automatic pistol. He bought that online February 2nd and picked it up at a pawn shop just minutes from campus. In both cases, he presented identification and passed a computerized background check by state police. There was no waiting period. Virginia law makes it illegal to own a firearm if someone has been acquitted by reason of insanity and committed to a mental institution, subject to a protective order issued pursuant to stalking, or adjudicated legally incompetent or mentally incapacitated or involuntarily committed. In 2005, two female Virginia Tech students reported being stalked by Jo, but they chose not to press charges.

And after talking to him, campus police recommended he be detained for mental evaluation. Jo was evaluated at a local psychiatric hospital. A doctor there found him depressed that said Jo denied being suicidal. The next day, a state magistrate found Jo presents an imminent danger to himself as a result of mental illness, but did not find he was a threat to others. The magistrate recommended outpatient treatment as opposed to involuntary commitment. It's unclear what follow-up treatment Jo had. The director of Virginia Tech's Counseling Center said the matter was not reported to any other authorities. This is not a law enforcement issue. He had broken no law that we know of every the mental health professionals were there to assess his safety, not particularly the safety of others. And so there is no necessity, perhaps, that they would notify everybody whether it be the police, whether it be police. We'll get to that in a second. A newly appointed state commission will look into all this as part of its investigation.

And for more now, we get two perspectives. Matt Bennett is the co-founder of Americans for Gun Safety, a project of a progressive think tank in Washington called Third Way. And Dave Copel is research director of the Independence Institute, a conservative think tank in Colorado. He co-authored the Law Textbook Gun Control and Gun Rights. Welcome, gentlemen. So Matt Bennett, how would a young man with chose history of mental health problems be able to get a gun? Well, as the tape he suggested, Cho followed the law. He went to a gun store in one instance. He presented the identification required of him. They ran his name through the background check system, he came up clean, he was given the gun. In the other case, when he bought the gun over the Internet, he did what he was supposed to do. The problem is that the federal law and the state law is antiquated and has large holes in it.

So somebody like Cho is able to slip through the crowns. But explain how the background check system works. The gun owner or the gun shop owner said the state police. Right. That's right. In some states like Virginia, the state police do the check. In other states, the FBI does the check. But in all cases, they use the same database, which is the national instant background check database. That database has a number of different factors that it checks for to see if someone is a convicted felon or if they have committed a crime of domestic violence or under restraining order. There's about nine or ten different factors. And one of them is this mental health provision. But it's very narrow and it's somewhat antiquated. What would you add to that Dave couple about how the process works and what does put up a red flag that says don't sell this person a gun? Well, let's take a look at the statute. I think actually the federal law was clear enough in this case. But the problem was that as in lots of cases, the law didn't get properly enforced. The federal gun control act ever since 1968 has prohibited the possession by a person

or the sale to a person who is what they call mentally defective. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms wrote a regulation and that regulation says that that category includes a person who has been found by some kind of official body to be a danger to himself or others. Show was found to be a danger to himself or others when he was brought before a magistrate. The magistrate had the option to commit him but found that less restrictive treatment, the outpatient treatment would be sufficient. That even though he wasn't committed, that's sufficient under federal law to bar him for the rest of his life, from ever possessing a firearm, and in fact, there's a case from the District Court, Federal District Court of Michigan, U.S. versus Verdes, that finds exactly that, in a very similar situation. The federal gun control act did apply and prohibited the person from having a gun. Now, clearly, it would be very helpful if these regulations were better known and

disseminated more broadly to the mental health community and to the judges and magistrates who may make these commitments or determinations about a person's dangers so that this information does get reported. So, Matt Bennett, the problem then is what's in the database? Who determines in the mental health area what is in the database? Well, that's exactly right. The database is made up of all these different factors and so, generally, it's states and state courts, like the one that was involved here, and in some cases, private mental hospitals that have to report data that could put into this database through a variety of different mechanisms. As Dave points out, there's big holes in the database. In part, it's a resource problem. It's very expensive to maintain this database and to make sure that these data all get inputted and they have to go back in time and make sure that the data that's in files and courthouses and dusty basements somewhere are all inputted.

So, it's a difficult process made more difficult in the case of mental health because it's a very vague statute as Dave points to a federal district court case in Michigan, but a state court judge in Virginia may not know anything about that and it's not really before him when he's thinking about this kind of commitment procedure. But then you're suggesting that in courts across the state and do address whether Virginia is different than other states or where it falls in this sort of spectrum, that it's really not widely known or it's not a requirement that a finding such as the one that he was a magistrate found, which is that he was at least a danger to himself, does or doesn't end up in the database. My guess is that most judges know generally that there's a prohibition against certain types of people found mentally incapacitated against owning firearms, but they may not know the details of the law and show fell into a very, very narrow and particular part of this law that this judge, I think Dave is right, that this judge may have misinterpreted

or the people responsible for inputting data misinterpreted, but it's very difficult to get that knowledge out there and it's a pretty technical legal problem. Dave Koppel in all the commentary that's going on about this, a lot of folks that people have pointed to, well if there's a difference between your voluntarily, if you voluntarily commit yourself, it isn't reported, but if it's involuntary, it's clearly reported. Is that a distinction that's operative across the states or is that not? States have the option of layering on to the federal law makes the minimum standards for who can't have a gun, and states have the option of going further and some do with voluntary commitments, but that's not really the issue here, because Joe was never committed involuntarily or voluntarily, but what we had a situation where he was found to be a danger to himself, and that goes back ultimately to the federal statute, which says mentally defective or mentally incapacitated, and by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms regulations,

that's sufficient to put him on the prohibited persons list forever. And really, Matt's right that certainly digging through old records from the court houses can be an expensive thing, but on the other hand, reporting cases on a forward-going basis isn't that expensive, and it certainly wouldn't be that expensive for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, or the Department of Justice simply to mail to every magistrate in the country a few pages of explanation about what these laws are and how they would be applied in particular situations. So there have been a couple of stories today, Matt Bennett, the Democrats on the Hill, say they're going to be working with the National Rifle Association to revive some legislation in this area. What do you think needs to be done to tighten these laws? And how far should they go? Well, I think the legislation that's been reported on today is a very good legislation. We actually, Americans for Gun Safety, worked on it with the principal sponsors who, back in 2003, Carolyn McCarthy, who was a gun control person and John Dingle and NRA supporter, really helped improve the background checks system.

It would provide money to the state and guidance to the state's estate points out to make the background check system more complete so that people like to show don't fall through the cut. So you don't think that the definition of what constitutes someone who can have a gun needs to be changed, just enforce it better. It would be enormously difficult politically to open up the 1968 Gun Control Act in the area of mental health. It would all sort of, well, because the gun control community, the gun rights community and the mental health community all have different ideas about whether the definition needs to be expanded, contracted, or kept the same. And it would cause, it would open up Pandora's box of difficulty. What is your sense of what's doable, what should be done in this area? Well, I think what should be done is we start by enforcing the laws that we have. And Matt's right that we can do better on that in terms of informing magistrates and judges and also improving the records collection. We want to make sure that we get the proper records in there.

There's some parts in the bills that have been proposed to increase records collection that would simply gather in arrests without the dispositions. And of course, being arrested doesn't make you ineligible to possess a gun. It gets the conviction. One other thing we need to improve, I think, and it's especially relevant in the mental health area is federal law says that if you're an ineligible person, you can petition the attorney general to be allowed to possess a gun. For example, maybe you've got a dishonorable discharge from the military when you were 19 years old and you deserved it. You can't have a gun for the rest of your life by federal law. But now you're say 55 years old and you've lived a good, clean life in the intervening 36 years, the attorney general would have the discretion to allow that person to be permitted to possess a gun. That's in the federal statutes, but unfortunately the funding for that program has been eliminated since 1992. And likewise in mental health, you might have somebody who should properly be barred from having a gun at a certain time, but maybe 20 or 30 or 50 years later, it would be okay to have their rights restored.

We should have the funding put back in for that. All right, Dave, Cople, and Matt, we have to end up there. Thank you. Thank you. Finally, tonight, remembering the victims, news hour correspondent Tom Bearden has our story. Church Bell's rang at noon today in Washington's National Cathedral. Hope was a scene repeated in dozens of cities and towns across America on this national day of morning for the victims of Monday's deadly shooting at Virginia Tech. The remembrances extended due to today's Atlantic coast conference track and field championships at the University of Maryland. Many athletes, coaches, and fans from the 12 participating schools, including Virginia Tech, wore ribbons with the Hokies school colors of orange and maroon as a sign of support. Still, Maryland's Tony Eluco, who placed first in the women's high jump, wished she could do more.

I saw the athletes, and honestly, it was really hard. I didn't know what to say. You don't know how each athlete is affected and how they're handling it. But I laid in bed last night, and I was just saying, you know, I should have just gone up to them and said, you know, ladies, we really are thinking about you and our condolences with you and what you guys are in our hearts and in our prayers. It wasn't clear whether Virginia Tech student athletes would even participate in the meat. Other classes were canceled following the shootings, as were all school activities. But school officials gave the track team permission to make the five-hour trip to Maryland, a decision coach Dave Chienelli endorsed. The mood was just so much more buoyant once we got here to College Park, and we had our team together, and we had our first team meal, and you could just, you know, it was sort of like, you know, business as usual and a lot of laughter and the sooner that we can get back to sort of our normal routines. I believe that that's the first step to, you know, the healing process.

Many members of the Virginia Tech team showed their own signs of support for their classmates and teachers who were killed. Some displayed the number 32 to remember each life taken by the shooter. Others included the shooter among the victims, and displayed the number 33. We didn't meet about that. We didn't have some sort of, you know, vote or anything. I just left that up to each individual athlete to express themselves, you know, how they wanted to. And precisely at noon today, all activities on the field stopped, so that the teams and spectators could join in the moment of silence to remember Virginia Tech's debt. 20-year-old Ross Alimadine was a sophomore English major from Saugust, Massachusetts, friends who created a memorial page on the internet, said, his kindness knew few limits, and we are less without him. Jamie Bishop taught German. The Fulbright Scholar was remembered by his high school teacher in Pine Mountain, Georgia. Jamie was alive.

A lot of people put off live until tomorrow. They had too many problems to solve today, and Jamie lived every day to the fullest. Brian Bloom was on the brink of graduating with a master's in civil engineering. The only thing he loved more than the Detroit Tigers, according to one friend, was his work in the Baptist Collegiate Ministries. Ryan Clark was a resident advisor on the fourth floor of the dorm, where the gunman started his rampage. A member of the Virginia Tech marching Virginians band, he had a 4.0 grade point average. I was off the brother, you know, two, and I had two, now I just have one, and I lost a friend, I lost a part of my heart, you know, just... 18-year-old Austin Lloyd was a freshman, majoring in international studies. The pastor of her church described her as a very delightful, intelligent, warm, young lady. Proud Canadian and French language instructor Jocelyn Couture-Noac leaves behind two daughters. Kevin Granada was one of the top biomechanics researchers in the country, working on movement dynamics in cerebral palsy.

Granada's brother Paul. Kevin was a strong believer in helping people, and from what we've been told, that's how he ended up being the position to get shot. Is he left in office to help people? Graduate student Matthew Galtney had things really going good for him, according to his grandfather, and was set to graduate in May with a master's in environmental engineering. Sophomore Caitlin Hammerins, dorm resident advisor, said she was dedicated to helping her friends and the community. Jeremy Herbstrid of Belfant, Pennsylvania was a graduate student in engineering. Rachel Hill, a freshman studying biology, was an only child. She was competitive on the volleyball court and had a penchant for shoes. Emily Hillshire was the gunman's first victim, a horse lover from Woodville, Virginia. She wanted to be a veterinarian. Imagine the girl that's, you know, friends with everybody, she'll laugh at you, she'll laugh with you, she was just an amazing person.

Senior Jared Lane was majoring in civil engineering. He was a valedictorian of his narrows high school class in Virginia. An aspiring Air Force Intelligence officer, Matthew Leport was from Dumont, New Jersey. He attended high school at Carson Long Military Institute. As far as working in Cermi, we lost a family member. But I feel even worse because the world has lost someone who could have really made a difference. Freshman Henry Lee was the 9th of 10 siblings whose family fled Vietnam to come to the United States. He was a computer engineering major. Engineering professor Liviou Labrescu was buried in Israel today. The 76-year-old Holocaust survivor barred the classroom door so his students could escape out the windows. And just say, thank you for everything, he's been a great help to me and I'm going to miss him. Indian-born G.V. Leganathon was a lecturer in the Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering. Colleague said he was chosen four times by students as the faculty member of the year.

A tremendous human being. I never heard G.V. say an evil word about anyone. Partahi La Manaturoan of Sumatra in Indonesia was a civil engineering doctoral student. His family said they sold off their cars and land to pay for his studies. Lauren McCain came from Hampton, Virginia and was a devout Christian and a good friend. She always had a spiral on her face, but it's one thing I'll definitely tell you. She always saw an opportunity. To make sure you were doing okay. 22-year-old graduate student Daniel O'Neill loved playing guitar and posted his songs on his website. One Ramon Ortiz was from Puerto Rico. He was teaching a class as part of his graduate program in civil engineering when he was shot.

Minal Panchal was the first year building science student from Mumbai, India. She wanted to be an architect like her late father. Daniel Alejandro Perez hailed from Peru and was studying international relations. 18-year-old Aaron Peterson was remembered as a leader by her high school basketball coach in Chantalee, Virginia. Michael Paul, Jr. 23 from Flemington, Virginia was pursuing a degree in biological sciences. Julia Pride, a master's degree candidate in biological systems engineering, was an exceptional student according to the department chairman. Mary Karen Reed of Annandale, Virginia was a freshman. Her friends remembered her fondly. She always smiled, always laughed, we'd make fun of her just because she would smile so much. Even Rima Samaha loved dancing and performed in the school's contemporary dance ensemble. Her sister, Randa. We drove down here just, you know, praying for the best, but just, you know, preparing ourselves to the worst and that's what we got, we got the worst.

Egyptian born Walid Muhammad Shalan was married and the father of a one-year-old son and a doctoral student in civil engineering. 20-year-old Leslie Sherman was studying history and international studies. She always offered an encouraging word according to high school classmates. Senior Maxine Turner majored in chemical engineering and helped found the chapter of her sorority, Alpha Omega Epsilon. Maxica put a smile on anybody's face. She, she was always a joy to be around. Nicole White was a junior majoring in international studies and German. She was from Carrollton, Virginia. Again the other major developments of the day, the family of the Virginia Tech killer son, Wijo, issued a statement saying they never imagined he could do such a thing. They said they were very sorry for his unspeakable actions.

A NASA contract worker killed himself in a hostage at Johnson Space Center in Houston. And the Bush administration sharply criticized Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid for saying the war in Iraq is lost, but Reid charged again the president's policy is a failure. Washington Week can be seen later this evening on most PBS stations. We'll see you online and again here Monday evening with the report on the French elections from Margaret Warner in Paris. Have a nice weekend. I'm Judy Wardruff. Thank you and good night. Major funding for the news hour with Jim Lara is provided by We've discovered the world's most powerful energy. You'll find it in everything we do, uncover it in all the places we work. You can see it in our more than 55,000 employees.

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and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. And this program was made possible by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, and by contributions to your PBS station from viewers like you. Thank you. The family of the Virginia Tech killer, Son We Joe, spoke out today saying they never could have envisioned he was capable of so much violence. It was their first word since Joe shot 32 people and himself on Monday. His sister issued a statement that said, our family is so very sorry for my brother's unspeakable actions. It is a terrible tragedy for all of us. The Joe said they feel hopeless, helpless, and lost. The family statement came on a national day of mourning for Joe's victims.

There were vigils coast to coast, and on Virginia Tech's campus, hundreds of people paused for a moment of silence at noon. In Richmond, Governor Tim Cain said the killings and the human loss have touched the world. If you had a chance to read the biographies, the short stories of those who were killed, and just uncover marvelous.