The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

JIM LEHRER: Good evening. I'm Jim Lehrer. On the NewsHour tonight, a summary of today's news, full coverage of the announced plan to remake the FBI, a report from India on the hatred between Muslims and Hindus, a look at the economics of summer travel, and some memorial words about the woman who created "Nancy Drew."

NEWS SUMMARY

JIM LEHRER: The FBI will undergo wholesale changes to make terrorism its number-one priority. Attorney General Ashcroft and FBI Director Mueller announced that today. They outlined the next phase of the FBI's reorganization, begun after September 11. They also conceded the Bureau mishandled alerts by field agents before the attacks. Ashcroft said change was on the way.

JOHN ASHCROFT: This reorganization goes forward with the knowledge that congress and those within and outside the FBI Will provide us with constructive advice and criticism. Where there are responsible changes to be made, we will make them. Where there are mistakes to acknowledge, we will not shy away from doing so. Those who step forward to voice their legitimate concerns will be welcomed and often their ideas reviewed and embraced.

JIM LEHRER: Ashcroft called Mueller a "battle-tested leader," and said he was the right man to lead the FBI through these changes. We'll have more on this story in a moment. Libya today denied offering a settlement in the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103. But lawyers for the victims' families said they did have a deal. They said it totaled $2.7 billion, or $10 million per family. The Pan Am plane exploded over Lockerbie, Scotland, in December 1988, killing 270 people. Last year, a Scottish court convicted a former Libyan intelligence agent in the bombing. The Libyan government has denied any role. British troops announced a new operation in eastern Afghanistan today. They've begun operations near the Pakistan border to prevent al-Qaida and Taliban fighters from returning to Afghan territory. We have a report from James Mates of Independent Television News.

JAMES MATES: For three days, the men of 45 Commando have been deploying to southeastern Afghanistan, news of Operation Buzzard carefully controlled to prevent attacks before they got into position -- 300 men so far, more to follow if needed-- lessons now learned from previous failures to find al-Qaida and Taliban forces.

LT. COL. BEN CURRY, Royal Marines Spokesman: The key point here is being unpredictable: Moving by vehicle, by helicopter, and by foot, operating in an area sometimes overtly, sometimes covertly.

JAMES MATES: And all the time trying to win the hearts and minds of the Afghan people, preparing the way for a massive input of humanitarian aid by the United Nations. This evening, their commander, Brigadier Roger Lane, was broadcasting to the population, his words being translated as he spoke. The main convoy headed out under cover of darkness, upwards of 30 vehicles deploying close to the border with Pakistan. Intelligence now strongly suggests that as many as 1,000 al-Qaida fighters are now operating across that border, desperate to mount a successful attack against coalition forces.

JIM LEHRER: In Pakistan today, police arrested two suspected al-Qaida members in Peshawar, near the Afghan border. U.S. FBI agents assisted in the raid. The Pakistani police said they believed one of the suspects ran Islamic schools in eastern Afghanistan under the Taliban. The U.S. today announced a $5 million reward for the capture of five terrorist leaders in the Philippines. They run an Islamic extremist group that's been linked to al-Qaida. The group kidnapped three Americans a year ago, and beheaded one of them. The other two, missionaries Martin and Gracia Burnham, are still being held hostage. About 1,000 U.S. troops are now in the southern Philippines, training government soldiers to fight the guerrillas. The creator of "Nancy Drew" has died. Mildred Benson passed away Tuesday in Toledo, Ohio. Beginning in 1930, she wrote 23 of the original stories about the young detective under the pen name Carolyn Keene. She was paid $125 a book, and received no royalties. Other authors continued the series, which has sold more than 200 million copies in 17 languages. Mildred Benson was 96 years old. And we'll have more on her and her creation at the end of the program tonight. Between now and then, remaking the FBI, violence among Hindus and Muslims, and summer travel.

FOCUS - REDESIGNING THE BUREAU

JIM LEHRER: A new FBI; Kwame Holman begins.

KWAME HOLMAN: At a press conference at FBI Headquarters today, Director Robert Mueller tackled head-on charges that his agency was ill- prepared to anticipate the September 11 attacks. Mueller started the week before September 11 at an already troubled agency.

ROBERT MUELLER, FBI Director: When I arrived at the FBI In September, it was already clear that there was a need for change at the Bureau. Recent events, such as the Hanssen matter, the McVeigh documents, and the Wen Ho Lee case, all brought to light certain problems that needed to be addressed-- and that was before the events of September 11. But then came the events of September 11, and the events of September 11 marked a turning point for the FBI, and I say that because I think it's fair to say that after 9/11, it became clearer than ever that we had to fundamentally change the way we do our business. Now, as I recently testified, responding to the post-9/11 realities requires a redesigned and a refocused FBI. New technologies are required to support new and different operational practices, and we have to do a lot better-- a much better job-- at recruiting, managing, and training our workforce. We have to do a better job of collaborating with others. And as critically important, we have to do a better job managing, analyzing, and sharing information. In essence, we need a different approach that puts prevention above all else. And, simply put, we need to change, and we indeed are changing.

KWAME HOLMAN: Mueller referred to two memos from FBI Field agents that got little attention from headquarters. One came this month from Minneapolis-based agent Coleen Rowley. In a 13-page letter, Rowley said headquarters sat on information that might have prevented the attacks. She wrote: "The fact is that key FBI headquarters personnel whose job it was to assist and coordinate with field division agents on terrorism investigations continued to, almost inexplicably, throw up roadblocks." The other came from a Phoenix- based agent in July. It warned that suspected Islamic militants were trying to gain access to U.S. flight schools.

ROBERT MUELLER, FBI Director: In the last few weeks, two separate matters have come to symbolize that which we must change. First is what did not happen with the memo from Phoenix, which points squarely at our analytical capacity. Our analytical capability is not where it should be. Our analysts are working harder than ever, and they need help. And I believe that this plan addresses that need. And second, the letter from Agent Rowley in Minneapolis points squarely to a need for a different approach, especially at headquarters. And with that proposition, there really should be no debate. And let me... let me just take a moment to thank Agent Rowley for her letter. It is critically important that I hear criticisms of the organization, including criticisms of me, in order to improve the organization, to improve the FBI. Because our focus is on preventing terrorist attacks, more so than in the past, we must be open to new ideas, to criticism from within and from without, and to admitting and learning from our mistakes.

KWAME HOLMAN: Specifically, Agent Rowley complained that efforts to examine hijacking suspect Zacarias Moussaoui's computer were blocked by Bureau superiors when Minneapolis agents tried to secure a warrant last August. The FBI Director said his reorganization plan would make protecting the American people from another terrorist attack the agency's top priority. The plan includes: adding about 1,500 agents and other law enforcement officials to counter terrorism efforts; 518 of them will be shifted from narcotics, violent crime, and white collar investigative duties. A new office of intelligence will be created, headed by a CIA agent. And 25 CIA agents will move to the FBI to assist with analysis and intelligence gathering. 900 new agents will be hired. Recruitment will focus on people with special foreign language and computer skills. And new "flying squads" of agents will travel from headquarters to field offices to better coordinate investigations. Mueller elaborated on the changes.

ROBERT MUELLER: Number one, restructuring the counter terrorism division at FBI headquarters. And there are a couple of things that need to be addressed here. One of the arguments made by Agent Rowley is that the headquarters needs to expedite and be aggressive in assisting the field. She's absolutely right, absolutely right. We need to do a better job at headquarters in assisting the field. Headquarters has to play a principal role in addressing terrorism. It has to be the focal point for the intelligence not only from around the country, but from the CIA, from various countries overseas, and should be in the position to take that intelligence, analyze that intelligence, disseminate that intelligence, and suggest to the field avenues of investigation. It is critically important to our ability to address terrorism that we have a vibrant, active, aggressive headquarters, and it has the analytical capability to support that mission. And that's what I mean by... when I say up here, "redefine the relationship between the headquarters and field." And there's one other aspect in that... of that, is we cannot expect an office in the field to know what other offices are doing. It's up to headquarters to make certain that, in the case of Moussaoui, for instance, that the agents who were working on the Moussaoui case got the Phoenix memorandum that was put out in July by Agent Williams there. It is critically important that we have that connection of dots that will enable us to prevent the next attack. And to do that, headquarters has to assume a responsibility for assuring that information comes in, that information is analyzed, and that information is disseminated. And what we are hoping to do is put up a national joint terrorism task force that will have not only the federal agencies represented, but also state and local agencies represented. We need to focus on our analytical capabilities in ways that we have not in the past, so that when we get pieces of information-- whether it be from Phoenix or from Oklahoma or from Minnesota-- it is fed in and looked at, and coordinated, analyzed, and decisions made as to what we should do with it. It is a substantial shift and an understanding that our mission, our responsibility in the future is to prevent additional terrorist attacks in the United States. And there is not an agent out there, there is not a support person, there is not an analyst that does not understand that and want to participate in protecting the United States from such attacks.

KWAME HOLMAN: Bureau officials say some internal changes already are underway, but the shift in the FBI's mission must be approved by Congress.

JIM LEHRER: Now, an assessment of these proposals. We get that from three people who've watched the Bureau closely over many years. Michael Bromwich is the former Inspector General of the Department of Justice during the Carter Administration-- he also investigated the FBI's handling of the Aldrich Ames matter and defective procedures at the FBI laboratory; Harry Brandon was an FBI special agent for 23 years, and served as the Deputy Assistant Director of the FBI for Counter Terrorism and Counterintelligence; Elaine Shannon is the Law Enforcement and National Security Correspondent for "Time" magazine.

Mr. Brandon, what do you think of what Director Mueller just said and is planning to do?

HARRY BRANDON: I think he's very much on the right track. He's taking a very aggressive approach. I think we do have to remember though that he's literally in middle of a war and he's trying to rebuild the whole process. I think it's going to be tough. I really think it's going to be hard but he's aiming in the right direction.

JIM LEHRER: Does it seem as remarkable to you, as a former FBI agent, hearing a director of the FBI talk the way he did today as it does to some of us on the outside?

HARRY BRANDON: He's delivering a pretty strong message not only to the public but I think of equal importance to him he's delivering a message inside the FBI. He's saying we're going to remake it, we're going to redo it. It is interesting to see him talk that way, you're right.

JIM LEHRER: Mr. Bromwich, what do you make of what Mr. Mueller said?

MICHAEL BROMWICH: I think the tone of what he said is extraordinary, the willingness to open the Bureau to outside influences, the willingness to accept criticism for the institution and for Director Mueller personally. I think it is quite extraordinary but we need to keep in mind what he is asking the Bureau to do, which is to fundamentally change its mission from being the premiere federal law enforcement agency, much more in the direction of being a domestic intelligence agency. That's very different from what the Bureau has done before. It's also very different than the job that FBI agents signed up for when they decided to become FBI agents. And I think just thinking about that makes it clear what an enormous challenge Director Mueller faces.

JIM LEHRER: Meaning he may have the wrong people on the job to do the new job?

MICHAEL BROMWICH: The new job is so significantly different from the old job that he may not have the right mix of people. People who formerly joined up to be FBI agents were those who were interested in putting bad guys in jail, people who engaged in organized crime, narcotics trafficking and so forth. The tasks that agents are now going to be asked to do are very, very different from that. They're extraordinarily important but they're very different.

JIM LEHRER: Mr. Brandon, pick up on that. Tell us the difference between what the average FBI agent does today and what Director Mueller is going to ask them to do now.

HARRY BRANDON: Well, I may disagree a little bit with that. I don't think there is as big a gap as we've just heard. In fact, the FBI has a rare opportunity. They're going to bring trained investigators, skilled investigators, into the intelligence field, and I think that's a dimension that will make them much stronger. I think it's a very positive thing. It's going to take some work and training but I think it's a positive thing.

JIM LEHRER: Make the connection say between a field agent who spends, who has been spending most of his or her time say on the bank robbery detail and is now... saying now you are a intelligence gatherer. What's the connection?

HARRY BRANDON: You know, there's not a lot of difference. They collect information. The targeting, what they do with the information may be different. There's not a lot of difference. And this is not totally new to the FBI. This has certainly happened before. I started out with a criminal background and ended up....

JIM LEHRER: Criminal investigative background.

HARRY BRANDON: Criminal investigative background, absolutely.

JIM LEHRER: Right.

HARRY BRANDON: And ended up being assigned to counterintelligence work.

JIM LEHRER: Without any background in that specifically. They trained you in that.

HARRY BRANDON: They trained it. I trained in it. Then agents... I went back and forth in my career between the two disciplines. I may be a little bit prejudiced, but I think that it can give the FBI strength.

JIM LEHRER: Now, Elaine Shannon, you've done a lot of reporting about the FBI through the years. And you heard what has been said about the need also first of all to get the message to the average FBI agent today. How do you think this is going to be received based on your reporting?

ELAINE SHANNON: Well, the field people have been very worried about all this talk about centralization and having even more people at headquarters, which they'd like to blow up, chop on the things they want to do. It's very hard to open a terrorism investigation in a post Watergate atmosphere. You can't just open it because somebody looks suspicious.

JIM LEHRER: Because of court orders and all kinds of rules and -

ELAINE SHANNON: Not just court orders, just to open an international terrorism investigation takes certain kinds of showings, not proof beyond a reasonable doubt but higher than you think. And so there's been a lot of chafing about that. And they were really chilled when they heard he was going to centralize it. So he's saying to them I'm centralizing but I'm centralizing to help you. They're going to say, well, you're from the IRS, and you're here to help me - you know -- we'll see. I think they will be very skeptical but it's a good message if it works for them that headquarters is going to be more aggressive, help them get the information they need to make their cases better and not sneer at them or sit on them for six weeks.

JIM LEHRER: Mr. Bromwich, pick up on your -- you are concerned about whether or not this can, in fact, be done at all or are you concerned that the costs and the time may be much higher than anybody realizes?

MICHAEL BROMWICH: I think it's something that needs to be tried and it certainly needs to be done. I just think we need to be realistic about how difficult it will be to fundamentally change the mission of an agency that has 11,500 agents and is close to 30,000 personnel all told. You can't create as your two top priorities counter terrorism and espionage, which a couple of years ago really didn't rank that high, and expect it to be a smooth transition and expect everything to go well. I just think we need to be careful in understanding that this is going to be a long, difficult process, and we shouldn't expect miracles overnight.

JIM LEHRER: Do you have an opinion on this headquarters versus field discussion?

MICHAEL BROMWICH: Well, the tension between headquarters and the field has been traditional in the FBI. The field views headquarters as obstructionists and people who are always looking to put up caution flags and stop signs. Headquarters views itself as imposing quality control on the field and making sure that the rights of Americans are protected and investigations aren't opened at the drop of a hat. So the tension between the two has been there and it's been one that the Bureau has tried to overcome. I think what's critical for the Bureau to overcome now is the resistance that talented people in the field have to coming to headquarters. If Mr. Mueller, in fact, is going to centralize a lot of the counter terrorism operations, he's going to need to attract talented people from the field to work at headquarters. Most people, as Elaine Shannon noted, who are in the field want to blow up headquarters. They don't want to join headquarters. So getting talent at the center, which I think is necessary to have a viable national counter terrorism program, is not going to be easy.

JIM LEHRER: Mr. Brandon you are nodding the entire time when Mr. Bromwich was talking, particularly when he said nobody is going to want to come here. Is he right?

HARRY BRANDON: There's some truth to that. There's no question about that. Agents have lives. They have families. This is all part of the process, and it's very disruptive. I think what may happen is that although they're centralizing some of the analytical capabilities is that ultimately I think we'll see more authority flow back to the field.

JIM LEHRER: You mean to initiate investigations.

HARRY BRANDON: To initiate and conduct and guide and direct investigations. I think that's going to be one of the solutions.

JIM LEHRER: If I heard was Mueller was saying, the headquarters' job is going to be to make sure that something that's found in Oklahoma is passed on to somebody in Minneapolis and all that which is not happening now clearly.

HARRY BRANDON: It's not happening effectively and efficiently at all. He has to do that. But he's also clearly said he's not going to take authority away from the field. That's important.

JIM LEHRER: Let's talk about Robert Mueller himself. Elaine Shannon, you were there today. Give us -- take us there. Give us the scene. What was it like? He spoke for a long time and answered you all's questions for a long time, did he not?

ELAINE SHANNON: Several hours. He spoke formerly... formally at first. Then he went out and took off his jacket and came back and talked for as long as we wanted to talk.

JIM LEHRER: On the record?

ELAINE SHANNON: Oh, yes. Bob Mueller is a trial lawyer; he's a smart trial lawyer. And he handles himself very well on his feet. And he caught something else that I think is very important. You didn't show it here but he said you know we all make mistakes and we have to admit them. We can't be defensive - in fact, I made a mistake and let me tell you about it. He talked about how right after 9/11 he said, well, we had no idea that terrorists might be using flight schools. And he says now I realize we had the Phoenix memo; there was another memo from an FBI pilot in Oklahoma who saw some Middle Eastern people -- that he was suspicious about -- taking flight lessons. There's another memo about somebody in another country trying to buy a simulator and then there's this situation with... so they did know and he says, I made a mistake, and I have to say that. He's sending a signal that maybe you won't get your head chopped off if you make a mistake. That's a good signal to send if that what he means, because under Louis Freeh, Louis Freeh could be quite hard on people who made mistakes. And this created or helped create or perpetuate the climate of fear that Coleen Rowley talked about.

JIM LEHRER: What's your reading of Robert Mueller and his ability to do now what he now says needs to be done?

HARRY BRANDON: I think he can do it. He has to do it.

JIM LEHRER: Okay.

HARRY BRANDON: He's a Marine. He's a leader.

JIM LEHRER: You're no longer in the Bureau but clearly you have a lot of friends who are still in the Bureau and talking to the people in the Bureau.

HARRY BRANDON: Yes.

JIM LEHRER: What's the word on Robert Mueller?

HARRY BRANDON: He brooks no fools but he will listen to people. He'll listen to dissent. He makes a decision and he expects you to follow. It's a positive feeling.

JIM LEHRER: Positive feeling.

HARRY BRANDON: Yes, sir.

JIM LEHRER: Mr. Bromwich, What's your reading on Robert Mueller?

MICHAEL BROMWICH: I think he's a talented, intelligent aggressive guy who probably has one of the most difficult jobs in government right now. I think there is going to be a lot of resistance in the FBI to these plans. I think he's strong enough to overcome the resistance but we shouldn't underestimate how difficult it will be for him.

JIM LEHRER: Mr. Bromwich, let me read you a quote that Senator Grassley, a Republican from Iowa, in a statement he issued today, he's been critical of the FBI in the past. And here's what he said after the Mueller news conference, et cetera. He said, quote, the credibility of the FBI and its leadership have been put at risk in recent weeks, and the reaction has been to cover up rather than to come clean about what went wrong. Reorganizing the Bureau won't make much difference if the FBI doesn't hold accountable those responsible for these mistakes. This doesn't need to be a witch hunt, but the problem has to be fixed -- end quote. He's talking about the Moussaoui case and all of those sort of things have to be cleaned up and cleared up first. Do you agree with him?

MICHAEL BROMWICH: I do think they need to be cleared up. I disagree that this whole reorganization plan was an attempt to change the subject and distract attention away from Agent Rowley's letter and the whole Moussaoui situation. But I certainly agree with Senator Grassley that people need to be held accountable, and it sounded like what Director Mueller was talking about was holding himself accountable. He thanked her for writing the letter. He said that criticism was welcome and was important for him and for the agency. Frankly it's hard to imagine any prior Director saying things like that.

JIM LEHRER: You agree, Mr. Brandon?

HARRY BRANDON: I do. I think it was remarkable.

JIM LEHRER: Elaine Shannon, could you imagine an FBI Director doing what he did today?

ELAINE SHANNON: Well, I've seen Director Webster do... be humble himself. There are not too many other situations though. But we'll see what happens to the... I'd like to know the facts surrounding the supervisor she criticized for obstructing the investigation.

JIM LEHRER: Rowley?

ELAINE SHANNON: Yes and for other people in the FBI. Mueller said he is going to wait until he hears the IG -- Mr. Bromwich's old job -- decide before he decides what to do. I think we need to know more than just one person's side of this story.

JIM LEHRER: So you agree with Senator Grassley that there's more to this than reorganizing, there's still some accountability thing?

ELAINE SHANNON: Yeah. I don't see a cover up but I certainly want to know more about all if these individuals before we decide this person is good and that person is bad.

JIM LEHRER: Okay. Thank you all three very much.

FOCUS - RELIGIOUS VIOLENCE

JIM LEHRER: Still to come on the NewsHour tonight, religious fighting in India, the travel business, and the "Nancy Drew" story.

JIM LEHRER: India and Pakistan are in a face-off over the disputed territory of Kashmir, but India has to also cope with its own internal religious violence. The strife has been based in the western state of Gujarat. Fred de Sam Lazaro of Twin Cities Public Television reports from there.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Gujarat is the birthplace of Mahatma Gandhi. At the center from where he plotted India's independence in the early 20th century, schoolchildren today sing about nonviolence and peace. (Children singing) But it's been anything but peaceful and nonviolent in Gujarat recently. Violence erupted in February in the village of Godhra when a group of Muslims set fire to a train. Stories differ on what sparked the incident, but in the end, 58 Hindus-- most of them women and children-- were burned alive. The train was carrying Hindu activists returning from Ayodhya. It's the site of a long-simmering dispute over ground claimed as sacred by both Hindus and Muslims. The assault triggered one of the worst cycles of violence in what's often been a bloody relationship between the nation's 850 million Hindus and at least 130 million Muslims. Today, some 110,000 of the Muslim minority live in relief camps in Gujarat's capital, Ahmedabad. They tell stories of rape, murder and torched homes that followed the train incident.

WOMAN (Translated): Tell us, where can we go? They burned our homes; they took our Koran, threw it in the street and pissed on it. They tell us to get out of this country. We were born here. Our men fought for this country. Where can we go?

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: A few miles away, a family mourns the loss of a son and brother killed by a Muslim gang. He was a youth activist for the World Hindu Council, a Hindu nationalist group. "He was a martyr for the cause," they say, "and that cause will continue." Central to their cause is Ayodhya, 800 miles away from Gujarat. It's the site where this 16th century mosque stood. It was built by the moguls who reigned here before the British colonized India. Hindu nationalists insist the Muslim ruler, Babar, destroyed a Hindu temple to build the mosque, and that the site is the birthplace of the Hindu God, Ram. In 1992, Hindu militants tore down the mosque. Hundreds of Muslims and Hindus died in violence that followed across the region. Throughout the '90s, the BJP, a party allied with nationalist Hindu groups, rode the issue to election success, campaigning to build a new Hindu temple on the disputed site. In power now with more moderate coalition partners, the BJP has tempered its stance. Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee now says the courts should decide whether the temple should be built. As India's supreme court grapples with the mosque versus temple issue, Hindu forces have been active through the impasse, building the temple, they say, just waiting to erect it. Not far from the disputed site, hundreds of pillars and columns of sandstone have already been carved. Pilgrims and activists visit each day, admiring the stonework, chipping in a few rupees for the temple project. Today, the dozens of their number who perished on the train last February have been called martyrs; their deaths sparking a campaign of retribution against Muslims on a scale Ahmedabad police commissioner P.C. Pande says he's never witnessed.

P.C. PANDE, Ahmedabad Police Commissioner: We have dealt with several such situations. It's not the first time. But we don't expect people to come out in... in hundreds of thousands. We don't expect that. That is what had happened. And that's why, I mean, on the very first day, on the 28th of February itself, realizing that the forces would not be adequate, army was called in by the state government.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: In many Gujarat cities, every Muslim business was set on fire. By the time army troops had been called in, the official death toll had exceeded 800; most of them Muslims. Media reports put the toll in the thousands. Many bodies, like the relatives of 14-year-old Naved, have never been found.

NAVED (Translated): My mother, my father, brother, sister, plus an auntie and her family, we all lived together. On February 28, our house was burned. My hands and legs were burned. I ran to my employer, who took me to the hospital.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: The stories and rumors of atrocities on both sides abound. It's not often that one can walk in the middle of the street in a big Indian city. Ahmedabad has five million people. But weeks after the orgy of violence that claimed thousands of lives, there continues to be sporadic outbursts of violence fed by the rumor mill, so police routinely impose curfew on neighborhoods like this one at night. Even with the police and army patrols, there are almost daily clashes and dozens of fires. And the toll continues to mount-- more than a dozen deaths during our own three-day visit. To many critics, the failure to contain the violence proves the complicity of the Gujarat government, a legislature in which the BJP has a majority. Siddharth Varadarajan is an editor with the "Times of India," a top English language daily.

SIDDHARTH VARDARAJAN, Times of India: The killings which followed the train massacre were not spontaneous. They were not the result of mass anger on the part of Hindus. But it was an orchestrated, organized, calculated pogrom, which took place because the ruling party, the Bharatiya Janata Party, has state power and was able to use that power to essentially give a free hand to its party activists to indulge in this kind of criminal behavior.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: The BJP's allies in Gujarat blame Muslims, what they call Islamic terrorism.

SPOKESMAN: Here in Gujarat, Hindus are victims of Islamic terrorism.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Praveen Togadia is president of the World Hindu Council, which has led the campaign to build a temple in Ayodhya. Many Muslims, he charges, think of themselves as Muslims first, not Indians. Many Indian Muslim leaders say the overwhelming majority of their community should not be judged by pronouncements of a few. Abid Shamsi is a retired English professor in Gujarat.

ABID SHAMSI: I believe that the voice of sanity is not heard. There is such a large, large scale and widespread rule of fanaticism where you can't go and talk reason.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Shamsi says aside from a few movie stars and industrialists, India's Muslims are poorer and less literate than most Indians. Far from being fanatics, he says many chose to live in a secular democratic India instead of a Muslim Pakistan. However, Syed Shahabuddin, who publishes the weekly magazine "Muslim India," fears events in Gujarat are exactly what breed extremism.

SYED SHAHABUDDIN: We cannot control the motivation of individuals -- an adolescent who has lost his entire family, who has seen his mother and sisters being raped and who has seen his fathers and brothers being butchered. If he becomes a terrorist, what shall you tell him? What can you tell him? Yes, I go on telling them, please have fortitude, have faith in Allah. I might teach them, I might try to keep them from the path of violence, because, as I told you, I see the redemption of India, and I see the future of the minorities in this country - not in their own effort, singly - but in cooperation with the huge mass of this country, which is tolerant, which is good, which is peaceful.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Months into the Gujarat violence, however, the forces of moderation have yet to rise.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: There was one person we spoke to yesterday that saidit will just take time and fatigue to bring peace to Gujarat.

ABID SHAMSI: Yes.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Do you agree with that?

ABID SHAMIS: Absolutely. Absolutely. And this time it's going to be a long time.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Many Indians take heart from the fact that the religious violence hasn't spread beyond Gujarat. Others, however, fear that it will be a struggle to keep Gujarat, the birthplace of Gandhi, from becoming the graveyard of the secular nation he helped found.

FOCUS - ON THE ROAD?

JIM LEHRER: Now, the second of consecutive looks at major parts of the U.S. Economy. Last night, the subject was housing; tonight, it's travel. Gwen Ifill has the story.

GWEN IFILL: This week, the busy summer travel season entered full swing. But in the 12 months since last Memorial Day, the industry has been shaken by a soft economy, and stirred by the September 11 attacks; jittery travelers stayed home. Now, business and leisure travelers are slowly returning to hotels, resorts, and beaches from California to Cape Cod. Is it the return of the old- fashioned summer vacation? Here to talk about that we have Sandra Hughes, Vice President of Travel for AAA.; Mark Orwoll, Managing Editor of "Travel and Leisure" Magazine; and Kathy Sudeikis, Executive Vice President of the American Society of Travel Agents.

Sandra Hughes, are people traveling again?

SANDRA HUGHES: Yes, people are traveling again, especially for leisure, for vacations. I think it's just something Americans feel is their right to do and there's... it seems apparently there's some pent-up demand and we're seeing people get back on the road and back a airplanes again.

GWEN IFILL: AAA took a survey about this just before Memorial Day. Did it show any difference in how people are traveling and where they're traveling to?

SANDRA HUGHES: Yes. While auto travel has always been the primary way people go on vacations it's going to be even more so this summer. We're seeing a slightly more people traveling by car than have ever done before.

GWEN IFILL: Mark Orwoll, are they also traveling by train? Do people seem to be staying away from airports?

MARK ORWOLL: Well indeed there are a lot of people traveling by train; in the northeast corridor travel is up by 1 to 2 percent in the past six months. But the place where travelers are going to notice the biggest difference since the events of September 11, of course, is going to be at the nation's airports where the lines are long, the tempers are sometimes short, and patience is the word of the day.

GWEN IFILL: You're saying inconvenience may be a bigger deterrent to travel than cost even.

MARK ORWOLL: Well, indeed it is, although cost is certainly a factor. Let's face it. The economic situation that this country has been in for the last six to eight months or longer has had a great impact on people's plans. Their leisure travel sometimes takes a back seat to the realities of their own family's economy.

GWEN IFILL: Kathy Sudeikis, do people travel far now if they're traveling again or are they sticking pretty much close to home?

KATHY SUDEIKIS: I think they're going great distances if their family and friends are great distances. That's one of the first places that they're heading is somewhere where they can reconnect with all old

friends and with family members in every part of the United States -- or going together on a cruise ship. And the cruise ships have come to the United States in the ports all up and down the East Coast and the West Coasts of the United States and aren't just staying in Florida. You can find a cruise now that you can drive to real easily if you were anywhere except the Midwest of course from Boston, Baltimore, Norfolk, Charlestown, Port Canaveral, and on the other side, Tampa, Galveston, New Orleans, San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco and Seattle.

GWEN IFILL: What about all those cheap airfare deals we saw last winter to Europe?

KATHY SUDEIKIS: Well, the Europe airfares are not that low for the summer months but we anticipate that they will be low again come September. You can start looking for those fairly shortly in the future. But summer, they're hoping to have some substantial business to the summer. If they don't, I think you'll see those airfares driving more customers in the door of travel agencies to talk about Europe for the summer.

GWEN IFILL: Mark Orwoll, you talked about whether it's the economy or inconvenience. Has the economy been the driving force here? We all tracked what happened with the economy last year. Are people simply staying home because they fear attack? I mean, how much does September 11 play a role, I guess, in how much...

MARK ORWOLL: I don't want to get the misimpression that people are staying home. In fact, more people are going to be traveling this summer, I think it's 1% to 2% more this summer than last summer. A greater percentage of them will be traveling by car rather than plane, of course. I do think that there's a combination of the concerns over security, safety, inconvenience, and the realities of the economy and whether you can afford it. While people will tell you that airfares are really down compared to last year, the fact is that there are a lot of sales on individual routes that have brought down the average. But if you want to travel to a specific destination on a specific day, the chances are pretty good that your airfare is going to be higher this year than it was last year. That has a real impact on people's plans, of course.

GWEN IFILL: Sandra Hughes, if everybody is driving where they're going and they're trying to stay closer to home and with family, what impact do gas prices have on people's decision making?

SANDRA HUGHES: Well, gas prices this year are actually a lot less than they were this time last year. We think that probably gas prices may continue to rise until the Fourth of July weekend and then stabilize and come down. I think right now the national average is somewhere around $1.40 a gallon. It could get to $1.50 a gallon by the Fourth of July. But I don't think that's going to have an impact on people's desire to take a trip by car because it didn't last summer and I don't think it will this summer either.

GWEN IFILL: Kathy Sudeikis, are you seeing the same thing?

KATHY SUDEIKIS: Yes, but we're seeing in the travel agency community people coming in and booking vacations where they are flying certainly in the Midwest. And it hasn't been a walk-away situation at all. We are seeing people both interested in driving, in taking the family, and also that's the biggest change we've seen is no one is leaving anyone behind. They're taking the entire family.

GWEN IFILL: But do you get phone calls from people who are trying to book trips after they hear about another alert or another warning, say, the Statue of Liberty, canceling their trip saying they're too nervous and want to stay home now?

KATHY SUDEIKIS: I have to say that this week I've been extraordinarily busy just these last two days. And at the end of last week as the alerts were going out, I can't imagine how quickly people are trying to leave town. I have the editor of a paperleaving on Friday for a trip in the Bahamas. I have people going to Mexico on June 8, going to Germany on June 23. And they're just dropping everything and doing it at the very last minute when they see a window of opportunity for them to get away. And they're just not doing what they did in the past years, planning ahead.

GWEN IFILL: So there's not a collective national crouch, people staying home because of this?

KATHY SUDEIKIS: I don't think so. And I'm afraid we're going to have these same kind of warnings as every holiday comes up upon us about our national monuments and things like that. And I wouldn't want to be cavalier and suggest that they aren't dangerous, but it's a very serious situation to stop traveling and to stop the economy. And so people want to do, I think... Sandra Hughes said that people feel like they need to travel and get away and de-stress and connect with families has never been more important than it was brought home to all of us after September 11, and connect with old friends. I mean, there are wonderful trips where girls are going away together and having a long weekend places; the fellows are going golfing. Nothing is really stopping, I'm pleased to say.

GWEN IFILL: Mark Orwoll, which destinations benefit the most when the rebound... if the rebound is

coming now and which destinations are the slowest to get back up to speed?

MARK ORWOLL: Well, the slowest destinations are generally ones that have been popular in the past: New York City, Boston, Las Vegas. You can get some great deals in those specific destinations because they have been hurt by the economic downturn somewhat more than other cities. But places like Florida, California, New York State in general, those are top destinations. People want to go there. That's always been the case, and that's not changing this summer.

GWEN IFILL: Sandra Hughes, are you hearing the same thing in the study that AAA did?

SANDRA HUGHES: Yes. Orlando continues to be AAA members' primary destination that they want to take a trip for the summer. However, the other thing that we're seeing is more people are traveling to national parks and to historic destinations than ever before. So perhaps there is a little more patriotism and desire to stay, to see things that perhaps they haven't seen in our own country than ever before.

GWEN IFILL: You say you're seeing travel patriotism?

SANDRA HUGHES: Yes, I think so.

GWEN IFILL: That's very interesting. Now how about deals? Are there any deals out there, Mark Orwoll, for people who want to make last-minute bookings or try to get out of town?

MARK ORWOLL: There are indeed deals. But it's going to require you to do a lot more shopping around than you might have had to do in years past. You should go online. You should call up your favorite travel agent. You should talk to your friends. You should sign up for the e-mail newsletters that the airlines and tour operators will send you. You do your homework and you're bound to come across some good deals. I should say that you want to be flexible, however. If you can travel one or two days different, if you can travel from a different airport, the chances are that you'll be able to get the best deal available.

GWEN IFILL: Okay. Kathy Sudeikis, let's talk about that. Does this cost money, then, for... does this cost money, cost travel agents money if indeed people are getting online and beginning to look for themselves and trying to find the best deal?

KATHY SUDEIKIS: Not really. Travel agents have definitely embraced the Internet, Gwen. It's a mutual win-win situation for all of us. Our customers come to us with a little bit of knowledge about a destination, and they feel really good to have a third party, a travel agent, validate what they've found. There are a lot of times that you don't want to be buying a destination or a hotel in a capital city or in a Caribbean island, for example, just on price. And you don't want to be choosing a cruise exclusively on price, either, because there are certain demographics about each particular cruise line. And a travel agency and one of your travel agents can really validate that for you and make sure that you're on the right track and get the vacation you expect. At ASTA, we say, "Without a travel agent, you're on your own." That doesn't mean that you don't do some homework on your own and come and let us help you tell you if it's really a good value because travel agents are all about value, not just an airline ticket anymore.

GWEN IFILL: We have lost Sandra Hughes in Orlando, so let me direct this question to Mark Orwoll, which is: How important is the travel industry as a driver in the economy? How important is it as a segment of the economy if the economy is to come back?

MARK ORWOLL: It's incredibly important, Gwen. In fact, many states and individual cities rely for tourism receipts for as much as half or more of their revenues. It can mean the success or failure of the livelihoods of millions of people. It's not just going on vacation, but it is, as you put it, it's an entire segment of the nation's economy as an industry. So getting out and traveling is not just an enjoyable thing to do, it's a patriotic thing to do. It's a good thing to do for the country and it's fun.

GWEN IFILL: Whether you're going to the Grand Canyon or to Las Vegas, right? (Laughter)

MARK ORWOLL: That's right.

GWEN IFILL: it's still patriotic. Okay. Thank you both very much for joining me, and for Sandra Hughes, also, in Orlando.

FINALLY - IN MEMORIAM

JIM LEHRER: Finally tonight, remembering Mildred Wirt Benson, the woman behind "Nancy Drew," and to Elizabeth Farnsworth.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Writing under the pseudonym "Carolyn Keene," Mildred Wirt Benson wrote most of the first 30 books in the "Nancy Drew" series. Benson died last night at age 96. She worked for 58 years as a reporter at the Toledo, Ohio, "Blade" and other newspapers, and wrote more than 130 books and short stories. Her most famous creation, teenage sleuth Nancy Drew, captured the imagination of generations of girls and sold 200 million books. Benson played a key role in creating the character in 1930, making her athletic, adventurous, smart and relatively independent qualities other young heroines of the time lacked.

MILDRED WIRT BENSON: I just wanted to get away from the namby-pamby type of books that were being given to children in those days and give them something that would be a live, good story. I didn't analyze things. I just sat down at my typewriter and put a piece of paper in there and let her roll.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Joining me now is Ilana Nash, an instructor in the American culture studies program at Bowling Green State University.

Ms. Nash, tell us how Nancy Drew was born and what role Mildred Benson had in that birth.

ILANA NASH, Bowling Green State University: Well, Nancy Drew started in the mind of Edward Stratemeyer, who ran a book packaging company-- as we would call it today-- the Stratemeyer Literary Syndicate, where he would come up with the ideas for series books and then farm them out to ghostwriters. In the late 1920s, Mildred Wirt went to work withhim beginning by working on another series, and he was pleased enough with her work so that when he invented Nancy Drew in early 1930, she was the person that he chose to write the books.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: And how did she create Nancy Drew? What sort of a character did she create and why?

ILANA NASH: Well, as you just heard her say herself, she was rather disappointed with what she calls the "namby-pamby" style of girls' books in her own childhood. When she got the outline for this character, which was about four pages long, single spaced, she had the whole plot there, but she was given a great deal of freedom in making up the personality of Nancy Drew. And she decided to invest this character with all of her own beliefs about a woman's capabilities, about the excitement for adventure, for sports, for accomplishment, for especially fighting wrong and helping right to prevail. And she made all of these things come alive in the character of Nancy Drew.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: She could do this partly because this is the way she was, right?

ILANA NASH: Very much so. Very much so. She herself as a child was always struggling to make the world more accepting of girls in sports, of girls in competitive professions, and she herself, in fact, had a long and thriving profession as a journalist. She has always said that she was not exactly a feminist, but that she did believe that girls should be able to do anything that boys could do. And in 1930, that was a rather new idea.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Ms. Nash, why did she have to be anonymous until the '80s, and why didn't she make any money off this?

ILANA NASH: She did make some money. She was paid a flat fee. The way Edward Stratemeyer ran his company-- he's been called sort of the Henry Ford of children's fiction-- he would put all the financial risk into these books. He would hire the ghostwriters and the artists, and he received the profits if they were a success, and he took the losses if they were a failure. So he believed that you hire a ghostwriter to do a specific job, you pay them their one-time fee, and they've gotten acknowledgment for their work, and that's all they need and he reaps the profits. He was a very smart businessman but in 19...

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: I'm just curious. How much was the one-time fee?

ILANA NASH: $125 -- which during the Depression was nothing to sneeze at although it wasn't exactly a princely sum by any means.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Describe a scene for us so that people who might not have read Nancy Drew-- and I have to say that I was a huge fan-- can see Ms. Benson's creation.

ILANA NASH: Well, a typical scene in a Nancy Drew book is that she either alone or with her sidekicks, her best friends Bess and George, will be defying somebody's admonitions to stay away so that she can snoop and study and follow and put together clues. She will then confront the wrongdoer, who doesn't appear to be a wrongdoer, and sometimes she has to overcome the suspicions of others. She will confront him and declare his crime, and it's usually a "he." And then he will say, "impossible. I couldn't be foiled by a mere slip of a girl," which was part of the reason little girls loved this series, because when you're 11 years old, nobody takes you seriously. And Nancy Drew was nothing if not an icon of being taken seriously. She was competent, she was forceful; very calm and collected. And little girls really loved projecting themselves into that personality.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: You're writing a Ph.D. thesis partly on Nancy Drew. What have you found out about how girls were influenced by her over the years?

ILANA NASH: Well, I've found mostly from reading firsthand accounts and interviews and hearing a variety of stories from people I've spoken to, that Nancy Drew has often been called an inspiration for women to become professionalized, but it's more than that, because there were other book heroines who had certain types of careers during the '30s or the '40s. What Nancy Drew really did is she inspired girls to believe that it was possible for them to have a really effective presence in the world, that they could have dignity and autonomy, that if they pulled themselves up to the full height of themselves and said, "I demand that you listen to my calmly stated correct facts," that in fact the Red Sea could part. Now, that's not exactly true in real life, but you learn how to think it's possible by reading about a character who can do it.

ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: Ilana Nash, thanks for being with us.

ILANA NASH: Thank you.

RECAP

JIM LEHRER: Again, the other major developments of this day: Attorney General Ashcroft and Director Mueller announced the FBI will undergo wholesale changes to make terrorism its number-one priority. And British troops launched a new operation to keep enemy fighters in Pakistan from returning to Afghanistan. We'll see you online, and again here tomorrow evening, with an interview with Secretary of State Powell, among other things. I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank you and good night.