The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

MR. MacNeil: Good evening. Leading the news this Thursday, the U.S. and its allies gave Iraq an ultimatum to leave the Kurdish refugee zone. The Soviet Union agreed to co-host a Mideast peace conference with the United States. Soviet Pres. Gorbachev won a vote of support from Communist Party leaders after threatening to quit. We'll have details in our News Summary in a moment. Judy Woodruff's in Washington tonight. Judy.

MS. WOODRUFF: On the NewsHour tonight the Kurdish question is where we go first. We get a report on reaction to the deal supposedly cut between the Kurds and Saddam Hussein, then hear from three experts about whether it's likely to hold. Next, Tom Bearden looks at the Rocky Flats controversy over what to do with the nuclear waste this Denver weapons plant is expected to generate, and finally, a News Maker interview with the president of Nicaragua, Violeta Chamorro, in the first year of her post Sandinista rule.NEWS SUMMARY

MR. MacNeil: The United States, Britain, and France have ordered Iraqi security forces to withdraw from the Kurdish refugee zone in Northern Iraq or face attack. White House Spokesman Marlin Fitzwater said the ultimatum was delivered to Iraqi officials at the United Nations last night. He said the Iraqi security forces were an intimidating presence keeping the refugees away from relief camps being built by allied troops. Defense Sec. Dick Cheney said the U.S. might deploy additional forces to the area. He talked about the ultimatum at the Pentagon.

SEC. CHENEY: We've made it very clear that we do not want Iraqi forces in a position where they interfere with our efforts to undertake the relief efforts. We have given them a deadline and our people have the authority to use the force necessary to make certain that we are able to achieve that objective. We haven't specified the deadline publicly. Obviously it'll be sometime this weekend. Hopefully, we'll be able to work out an arrangement that'll be acceptable to the Iraqs as well as acceptable to us and I'm reasonably confident that that will happen as I do not expect that we're going to be, that we're going to find ourselves here engaged in conflict with Iraq. Certainly there's no need for that and there should be no doubt in their minds about what the outcome would be. We've got sufficient forces in the area so that there's no question but what we would prevail.

MR. MacNeil: Late today Iraq's ambassador to the United Nations said Iraq had already agreed to remove all but 50 policemen from the Northern Town of Zakho, the location of U.S. relief camps. There is no U.S. confirmation of that claim. Kurdish rebels in Northern Iraq reacted with skepticism to yesterday's agreement in principle between a rebel leader and the Iraqi government. Some said the government promises of autonomy must be backed up by international guarantees. In Baghdad, Iraq's prime minister confirmed the agreement and said it would move Iraq closer to democracy. We have more in this report narrated by Tom Brown of Worldwide Television News.

MR. BROWN: Iraqi Prime Minister Sadoon Hamadi announced that his country wanted to open a new chapter in its history and went on to promise multiparty elections and a new constitution. If the elections take place, they'll be the first of their kind since the Baath Party seized power 28 years ago. Just a week ago, Hamadi promised that Iraq would be allowed to vote on Saddam Hussein's future. Iraq is desperately trying to get sanctions lifted. Hamadi's speech seemed designed to shed his country in a more reasonable light. Iraq had no claim over Kuwait, he emphasized, although he denied charges that Baghdad has concealed the true extent of its chemical weapons arsenal. The day before a U.N. team arrived in Northern Iraq to prepare the ground for the proposed Kurdish refugee camps. It's not clear how willing the Kurds are to leave their mountain camps. Iraqi troops are still in evidence despite allied warnings to leave. Kurdish leaders have told the U.S. their people still fear for their safety. They also wonder how long the allies are going to hang around.

MR. MacNeil: U.S. planes will begin flying to Iran Saturday with aid for Kurdish refugees there. State Department Spokesman Richard Boucher said a plane load of blankets is expected to be the first of many shipments to arrive for the estimated million Kurds in Iran. The arrangements were made through Swiss intermediaries. The U.S. has had no diplomatic relations with Iran since the 1979 hostage crisis. The United Nations said Iraq's claim that it has no nuclear weapons is inadequate. Iraq made that claim in a letter disclosing its weapons arsenal which it sent to the U.N.'s international automatic energy agency. The letter was required under the U.N.'s Gulf War cease-fire terms. The agency gave Iraq until Friday to disclose locations of any nuclear weapons material. Judy.

MS. WOODRUFF: Soviet officials announced today that they are prepared to co-sponsor a Mideast peace conference. The announcement came from Soviet Foreign Minister Alexander Bersmertnik after his meeting with U.S. Sec. of State James Baker at a Soviet resort town in the Caucuses. Bersmertnik also said he would go to Israel next month for talks on restoring relations. Baker told reporters he thinks the outlook for peace is better than in the past. He flew to Israel this afternoon on the last leg of his Mideast peace mission. Baker will meet separately with Prime Minister Shamir and Palestinian leaders tomorrow.

MR. MacNeil: Mikhail Gorbachev won an overwhelming vote of support from Communist Party leaders today after he threatened to resign as the party's general secretary. Gorbachev made the threat after new attacks from hardliners during the second day of a Communist Party meeting in Moscow. Gorbachev fended off Party critics yesterday by announcing a new agreement with nine republics which called for an end to strikes and promised new elections. Soviet troops raided at least a dozen buildings across Lithuania today. The Lithuanian parliament convened to work out a response to this latest challenge to its independence drive. Lithuania's independent news agency said the troops seized a factory, several schools, and other buildings in eight cities across the Baltic republic. Lithuania was not among the republics signing yesterday's agreement with Mikhail Gorbachev.

MS. WOODRUFF: Pres. Bush had a not so subtle hint today for the Federal Reserve Bank about interest rates. During a White House photo session with former Japanese Prime Minister Noburo Takeshita Mr. Bush said he would like to see interest rates continue to fall. The President said that would benefit the U.S. and world economies. At a Senate hearing earlier this week, Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan was non-commital when he was asked if the central bank would lower rates. He said, "Our options are open." The head of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation said today that a continued recession could deplete the bank insurance fund by September. William Seidman spoke in a CBS television interview. He also said the savings & loan crisis will cost taxpayers $200 billion to start, but that interest payments could cause that figure to triple.

MR. MacNeil: A new space shuttle made its debut today at an Air Force assembly plant in Palmdale, California. The shuttle, named Endeavor, was rolled out of the hangar this afternoon. It replaces the Challenger, which exploded shortly after liftoff five years ago, killing its seven member crew. NASA officials say Endeavor looks like three other shuttle vehicles now in service but includes modifications which allow it to stay in space for a longer period of time. Endeavor is scheduled to take its first flight next year. At Cape Canaveral, Florida, NASA technicians began the countdown for Sunday's launch of the shuttle Discovery. The launch was postponed last Tuesday due to an electrical malfunction. It's now scheduled to lift off at 8:45 Eastern Time Sunday morning on an eight day military mission to do research for the Strategic Defense Initiative.

MS. WOODRUFF: A cholera epidemic is South America is threatening up to 120 million people the World Health Organization said today. The epidemic broke out in Peru in January and has since spread to Ecuador, Colombia, Chile, and Brazil. More than 177,000 cases have been reported this year and at least 1200 people have already died. Cholera is a severe dehydrating form of diarrhea. It can kill in a matter of hours if not treated. The WHO said people living in poor conditions are most at risk. It said providing safe water and sanitation stopped the spread of the disease could cost $50 billion. That's it for our News Summary. Just ahead, the Kurdish deal, will it hold, Colorado's nuclear waste controversy, and the president of Nicaragua. FOCUS - SAFE REFUGE?

MR. MacNeil: Our lead story tonight is the effort of Kurdish leaders to make a deal with Saddam Hussein. After a meeting in Baghdad yesterday, they announced a tentative agreement. It would create an autonomous region in Northern Iraq for Kurds, including the thousands who fled Iraqi government reprisals after an abortive revolt. Both sides said more talks were needed. The U.S. government has not endorsed or rejected any specific accord, but Defense Sec. Cheney said he was glad the two sides were talking. He was asked at a news conference when the Kurdish refugees would be moving right into camps being built by allied troops in Northern Iraq.

SEC. CHENEY: Well, we're well along now in constructing the first camp near Zakho. The effort is going very well. We've got a lot of support there. The Brits are in in significant numbers. The Dutch now have forces in the area as well, so from the standpoint of getting the camps prepared to begin receiving refugees, that process is well in hand. The big problem now, one of the big problems has been persuading the Kurds that it's safe for them to return. And we've had the Kurdish elders down to look at the facilities. They've been concerned by the presence of the Iraqi forces internally and we are now in the midst, as I say, of trying to clarify that situation so that the Kurds know it's safe to come down to the location where the camps are.

REPORTER: Have these political talks between Saddam Hussein and the Kurdish leaders had any impact on the relief camps? Will it make them less needed?

SEC. CHENEY: I don't know. I mean, that's all I've seen in terms of those discussions, the dialogue between the Kurds and the Iraqi government is what you've seen basically in the press. I don't have any separate reporting on that. I would expect that the Kurds, some of them may find that good news and be prepared to accept it. Others may well have questions about it. I simply don't know.

REPORTER: Mr. Secretary, how did you react to the talks that have been going on between the Kurdish leaders and Saddam Hussein? What do you make of these talks? There have been many things that Saddam has agreed to before that have just vaporized.

SEC. CHENEY: Eventually the outcome I think that everybody hopes for is that the Kurds will be able to return to their homes peacefully and without being under any kind of threat from the central government in Iraq. I think it's better to have the talks occurring than to not have them occurring. I think it's better to have the reported agreement in principle on the part of the Kurdish leader than it is not to have the agreement in principle. But we still have a long way to go I think before the Kurds are going to be willing to come down over the mountains and go home. And we're - - it's difficult to predict how soon that will happen or what additional steps have to occur before they're going to have that degree of comfort that allows them to leave the circumstances they're now in and go back to lower territory, go back to their homes.

REPORTER: There appears to be disorganization between the international relief organizations and controversy over the roles they should be playing. Do you see American troops being there indefinitely? Do you have a timeframe in your mind when you'd like to see them out of there and this turned over to completely, to international relief organizations and the U.N.?

SEC. CHENEY: Well, the sooner we can complete our mission, which is to build the camps and get the Kurds moved into the camps, get the assistance flowing, and then get out of there, the better I'm going to feel about it. I am not eager to see U.S. military forces tied up in this kind of effort indefinitely. On the other hand, we've got a mission to do. The President's made it very clear that he does not want those people to continue to suffer and die in the mountains in Northern Iraq, that he wants us to provide food and shelter and medical assistance. The United States military is very well equipped to do that. We're doing it as part of an international effort. There are now some two dozen countries that have provided assistance of one kind or another, and including several that now have combat troops on the ground in Northern Iraq as well to provide security. The sooner we can get it turned over to the international organizations the better.

MR. MacNeil: Any agreement between the Kurds and the central government of Iraq would be a major change. The Kurds have been fighting for independence or autonomy since Iraq was created after World War I. As recently as 1988, the Saddam government used poison gas against Kurdish towns, including the village of Halabja. Lindsay Taylor of Independent Television News has been covering the Kurdish refugees and followed some of them back into Iraq and to Halabja. Here is his report.

MR. TAYLOR: For thousands of Iraqi Kurds camped out in the mountain pass to Iran, a peace deal cannot come soon enough. They've been biding their time surviving as best they can, hoping they might return home. Some have already decided to turn back down the mountain. For others, it will clearly take longer. There are many like the head of this family who are simply too sick to travel even if they wanted to. Here a shallow roadside grave, the promise of the right to live at home in peace has for this woman come too late.

REFUGEE: The United Nations say thousands tons of food is coming to the North of Iraq and people dying because don't have food.

MR. TAYLOR: Are many people dying, many people?

REFUGEE: Thousands, thousands.

MR. TAYLOR: Under the protection of the Peshmerte guerrillas, still proudly displaying their captured Iraqi hardware, we descended down to the plains of Iraqi Kurdistan, the town of Halabja, a symbol to the world of Kurdish suffering. After two hours over rough mountain tracks, we caught our first glimpse of the town where three years ago Saddam Hussein gassed more than 5,000 people. The trees have still not recovered. And nearby we were shown evidence which the guerrillas claim shows the poison threat still remains to this day. According to the Peshmerte guerrillas, these chemical weapon bombs were dropped all over the place here three years ago, some of them landing in a stream like this. It's not gone off and it could leak carrying its chemical poisonous contents downstream. Halabja, itself, is now a flattened wreck of a town. Not one building in the whole area stands intact. But here too refugees from all over Kurdistan have flooded in, repopulating what remains of what was a ghost town.

DR. MOHAMMED AHMED: They went off from Kirkuk and from other cities. They went off because they have right from the Iraqi regime to kill them, to capture them and so on.

MR. TAYLOR: Dr. Ahmed, who runs a small and desperately poorly equipped clinic, lost six members of his own family in the chemical attack. He's now the senior Kurdish political figure in Halabja and as rumor reached the town that the Baghdad talks weren't producing results, he was cautious about the future. Can you ever trust a man who gassed so many people here?

DR. AHMED: No, never trust, but now he is weak and he is under the effect of many humanitarian organizations and many humanitarian governments, European, USA and other governments. They control him by force, not by himself. If he become well with us, it's not from his heart.

MR. TAYLOR: Even with the talks apparently successful, the citizens of Halabja face a mammoth task as they try to rebuild their shattered lives and homes. After the chemical attack, this town of 70,000 was completely razed and its people forced away. Now for the first time in three years, many are returning home and despite the terrible circumstances and this devastation, many say they're happy to be here. This is one man who hopes to start afresh. He used to own these shops before being forced to resettle elsewhere.

KARIM NWENEK, Halabja Shopkeeper: I feel happy to live in my town again after I leave it three years ago. That's the only wish in my life, to come back to my home, after the suffering -- and they destroy it -- I can build again and again.

MR. TAYLOR: From Halabja, we headed deeper into Iraq, accompanied now by heavily armed Peshmertek guerrillas. After 35 miles, passing through another devastated town, we reached what the Peshmertek call the border of liberated Kurdistan. Here we were led up through a mine field to the guerrillas' mountaintop positions. Whatever the agreement reached by their leaders and Saddam Hussein, these men have learned not to trust Baghdad. This barracks below occupied by the Iraqi army. There's supposed to be a cease-fire, but palls of smoke rise up over the town of Arbat. The Peshmertik say the Iraqis are blowing up the offices of its political headquarters. On the ridge Iraqi tanks stand poised. But here just a few hundreds yards away so too are the Peshmertik guerrillas. They're keeping their positions, holding their ground until they know they can trust Saddam Hussein's offer.

MS. WOODRUFF: We get three views now, Hoshyar Zebari, an Iraqi Kurd, is chief representative of the Kurdish Democratic Party. He has been in Washington for meetings with State Department and administration officials. Congressman Matthew McHugh, Democrat from New York, he's just returned with a delegation that visited refugee areas. He's a member of the Select Intelligence Committee, and Marshall Wiley was the chief of the U.S. mission to Baghdad during the Carter administration. Mr. Zebari, let me start with you. What information do you have on the details of this agreement that's supposedly been reached between Saddam Hussein and the Kurdish leaders?

MR. ZEBARI: Well, the latest I have that our delegation has come back today to Kurdistan and there will be a broader meeting by the Kurdish leadership to discuss the details of this agreement in principle. Of course, there are so many details which need to be sorted out still. It's early. There is a long way to go.

MS. WOODRUFF: But we know we're talking about an autonomous region. Does that mean complete autonomy for the Kurdish people?

MR. ZEBARI: Well, the agreement has been in principle that to go back to the 1970 March agreement of autonomy it is a broad agreement which was signed by the Kurdish leadership and Saddam Hussein which he never implemented. That should be the basis and the framework. Since then up to now so many things have changed which needs to be addressed, like the extent of the autonomous region, the relation between --

MS. WOODRUFF: You mean, the geographic and --

MR. ZEBARI: The geographic --

MS. WOODRUFF: What area does it cover?

MR. ZEBARI: Well, it covers most of -- the principle was that all areas which are inhabited by a majority of Kurds should be included in the autonomous region, but that didn't work out because the Iraqi government did introduce new settlers, for instance, and expelled people from certain strategic areas like Kirkuk and other oil areas.

MS. WOODRUFF: That's right and it's also said to call for a move toward democracy. We heard the Kurdish -- or rather the Iraqi foreign minister refer to that earlier.

MR. ZEBARI: Well, we have pressed them on that also, that if you are serious about this democratization process or this political reform, we must see some tangible evidence that you are seeing about elections, or the freedom of the press, and the autonomy can never be sustained and the dictatorship. I mean, that's the lesson which we have learned.

MS. WOODRUFF: But he's a dictator still at this point in effect.

MR. ZEBARI: He is still, in fact. I mean, there is no doubt about it. And we know him better than anybody else I think but any agreement I think needs some assurances and guarantees to make it viable and lasting.

MS. WOODRUFF: How do you feel about this? I mean, you just said yourself how do you know to trust him, and I think for many people observing this process it's very hard to understand. Here he is killing the Kurdish people just a few weeks ago and then we see this agreement.

MR. ZEBARI: Yes. We've been driven to this position primarily by the calamity of the situation, by the colossal human tragedy unfolding in the mountain of Kurdistan. You have ten thousand people dying every day along this border. And secondly, in fact, all the countries who have contributed one way or another have addressed only the humanitarian issue of the problem, while the root cause of this problem is political, so if these people are going to go back to their homes and towns, I think some sort of a political arrangement, an agreement, has to be addressed.

MS. WOODRUFF: And do you think your people are going to accept this? I mean, we've just seen in the videotape, we've just seen the Kurdish people --

MR. ZEBARI: Well, I'm sure the people respect the judgment of the Kurdish leadership on this matter. And many of them, if they are reassured and there are certain guarantees and this international pressure is kept on Saddam Hussein I'm sure many of them will return, but it's still early, in fact, to --

MS. WOODRUFF: It's still a lot of "ifs."

MR. ZEBARI: -- make a judgment.

MS. WOODRUFF: Congressman McHugh, you've just come back from the area. What's your sense of whether the Kurdish people will accept this so-called deal?

REP. McHUGH: Well, I think they would like a deal but the question is will they have the assurance the security guarantees, as Mr. Zebari said, to come back down off the mountains and go home, and certainly among the Kurdish refugees that we talked to, they have confidence in the United States military supported by some of our coalition partners, but right now they don't have much confidence in anyone else. And so I think it is going to take some time. There are going to have to be confidence building measures. They may insist --

MS. WOODRUFF: What do you mean confidence building measures?

REP. McHUGH: I think this political arrangement which has been reached in principle will take some time to seep in and for these people to get a sense that really the promises that are being made are going to be kept. Given the history of the Kurdish people and Saddam Hussein, they don't have that confidence now.

MS. WOODRUFF: Well, do you think that it's a real agreement? I mean, what --

REP. McHUGH: Well, I think it's a sign of hope because ultimately stability in Iraq is going to take a political arrangement along these lines, but these people that we talked to in the mountains are not going to come down and they're not going to go home on the basis of the word of Saddam Hussein, on the basis of the piece of paper. They're going to require some guarantee, some security measures which now are being provided by the United States military, but ultimately have to be provided by the international community.

MS. WOODRUFF: And when you say it's going to take time, how much time are you talking about?

REP. McHUGH: I don't know, because it deals with the confidence of the Kurdish refugees, themselves. It's what's in their mind. And right now they don't have the confidence that's required.

MS. WOODRUFF: Mr. Wiley, you've dealt with Saddam Hussein. Answer the question the rest of us are asking. Is he someone who can be trusted at this point given his -- one would assume -- vulnerable stage?

MR. WILEY: Well, I think there are strong incentives on both sides now to reach some sort of an agreement. The Iraqis would like to rejoin the international community and particularly get the sanctions lifted that are now imposed against them. The Kurds, many of the Kurds are in a very desperate situation and obviously would like to return to a more normal life, and I think there are not only incentives in the short run to reach an agreement but also to keep the agreement in place on both sides because I think Saddam Hussein would not see it in his interest to go back on an agreement and risk further isolation from the international community at this stage.

MS. WOODRUFF: So you think it's in his interest to live up to whatever the terms of this --

MR. WILEY: Exactly.

MS. WOODRUFF: -- turn out to be.

MR. WILEY: And it's in our interest to promote this sort of a settlement that would increase the stability in the region. So it's really in everybody's interest that we can progress. Now obviously there are still details that have to be worked out but I'm encouraged that things have moved as far as they have.

MS. WOODRUFF: But did Saddam Hussein really have any choice at this point? I mean, he wants American troops out his country.

MR. WILEY: Exactly.

MS. WOODRUFF: He certainly wants the sanctions to be lifted. And as far as he can tell, the only way to get that to happen is to agree to everything everybody asks him to do at this point.

MR. WILEY: Well, I think he has to settle the internal situation hopefully in a way that will at least not further antagonize the international community before he can make any progress towards reintegrating his country into the international community. And I think he's very much aware of this and wants to do it at this stage.

MS. WOODRUFF: Would you agree with that assessment, Mr. Zebari?

MR. ZEBARI: Well, I think this agreement has to be broader, in fact, to include other Iraqi opposition and also to hold Saddam Hussein -- by the international community on his reforms, for instance.

MS. WOODRUFF: You mean, UN guarantees?

MR. ZEBARI: By UN guarantees, by the sheer force of the allies who have won the war against him. There is many avenues, in fact, which he could be even still be challenged at home by the people, I mean, if he is serious about election, for instance, by not the United Nations press him for that by keeping, maintaining the sanctions and other pressures on him so he know where he stands?

MS. WOODRUFF: Is that feasible, Congressman McHugh, that sanctions could be kept on until free elections take place? I mean, is that --

REP. McHUGH: I think it's feasible, but I would anticipate in the context of this confidence building phase we're talking about that sanctions could be phased down and out to determine whether or not Saddam Hussein is actually keeping his commitments. In other words, I don't see sanctions being lifted completely in the short term, but I do see sanctions being lifted over a period of time so long as Saddam Hussein maintains his commitments. This is the type of confidence building which I think will encourage the Kurds who are now -- remember there are 2 million people who have fled sometimes with only the clothes on their back. It reflects the deep seated fear they have of this man and his military and so a piece of paper alone is not going to get them to go home.

MS. WOODRUFF: Mr. Wiley, should there be a deep seated fear of this man?

MR. WILEY: Well, yes. The use of collective punishment unfortunately is a long tradition in the Middle East. When a tribe or a group of people revolt against a central authority, it has been traditional to strike back at villages, killing women, children, innocent civilians, and I am certain that this has happened in Iraq as well, so there is reason for fear. At the same time I think there is also reason to hope that some kind of an autonomous status can now be worked out for the Kurds to at least give them some autonomy which they were deprived of after World War I when they probably should have had their own homeland which it was promised to them in the Versailles Treaty but which they never were given by the big powers in that day.

MS. WOODRUFF: Congressman McHugh, what does all this mean for U.S. policy in the region? We've now made this commitment to set up these camps, these temporary camps for the refugees. How will that whole arrangement be affected by this new agreement that we hear is --

REP. McHUGH: Well, I think in the short-term our policy will continue, that is to say to bring down from the mountains these people who cannot be adequately cared for in these remote, rugged conditions, and so I think that we'll continue to encourage them down into the temporary camps, encourage the political process which is now just beginning. That is the ultimate hope here. And therefore, I think the United States forces will likely be in Northern Iraq for at least a few more weeks or most likely at least a few more months.

MS. WOODRUFF: So this is good for U.S. policy, I mean, assuming - -

REP. McHUGH: It is good for U.S. policy if the agreement can be implemented, if the confidence of the Kurdish people can be strengthened, and they ultimately go home with this kind of political arrangement.

MS. WOODRUFF: Do you think, Mr. Zebari, that the United States should be optimistic at this point, or wary, as you sound like you still are?

MR. ZEBARI: Well, in fact, as far as we are concerned, I think I'm mystified by U.S. policy and there has been a grave miscalculation about the situation in Iraq in the post war period.

MS. WOODRUFF: What are you referring to specifically?

MR. ZEBARI: Well, in fact, we all know that the majority of the Iraqi people that oppose Saddam Hussein and they had a popular uprising, it was a vote against this legitimate government, that uprising unfortunately was not supported at the time by the U.S., by other European government, and there were no signs that they have a vision on Iraqi future to have at least a decent form of government, of pluralism. These are lacking still and we hope that the U.S. will push things along this line.

MS. WOODRUFF: Mr. Wiley, what do you say to the Iraqi people, to Kurds and others who look to the United States and say you didn't support us when we needed you?

MR. WILEY: Well, Pres. Bush, of course, would deny that he had ever promised military support to an armed rebellion on the part of the Kurds. I think what the President was hoping for was some kind of a coupe de tas in Baghdad that would give new leadership to the country but not to create separate units within the country or even to divide the country or to create another Lebanon in Iraq. I think this is certainly a very desirable outcome if, in fact, a separate autonomous region can now be created and that the 1970 agreement really be fully implemented, and I think we have a good chance of doing that because Saddam Hussein even if the sanctions are lifted or partially lifted is now aware that the international community is watching him. And I think he will be more careful in the future about doing things that might recreate the situation that he's found himself him the last few months.

MS. WOODRUFF: Do you agree with that, Congressman?

REP. McHUGH: Yes, I do. I think, as Amb. Wiley said earlier, I think everyone has an interest now in seeing this agreement proceed. Whether or not in the longer-term Saddam Hussein will keep to his promises, people have a reason to be skeptical.

MS. WOODRUFF: He has an interest in the short-term. The question is whether he believes he has an interest in the long-term.

REP. McHUGH: That's right. He's buying time at this point.

MR. ZEBARI: He has a number of objectives to achieve I think, to deflate this international reaction basically and to be integrated into international community.

MS. WOODRUFF: We thank you all for being with us, Mr. Zebari, Mr. Wiley, Congressman McHugh, thank you all. Robin.

MR. MacNeil: Still ahead on the NewsHour, environmental risks from making nuclear weapons and Nicaragua's Violeta Chamorro, president for a year. FOCUS - WASTE NOT, WANT NOT?

MR. MacNeil: Next tonight the continuing controversy surrounding one of the nation's nuclear weapons plants. Facing possible delays in the production of new weapons systems, the Department of Energy now wants to reopen a plant it once closed because of environmental dangers. But as Correspondent Tom Bearden reports, many unresolved problems remain.

MR. BEARDEN: This is the Rocky Flats nuclear weapons plant near Denver. This multibillion dollar facility has been closed since the FBI and the Environmental Protection Agency staged an unprecedented raid in late 1989 to investigate allegations of illegal radioactive waste disposal. Coming on the heels of a long series of accidental releases of deadly plutonium that went all the way back to the '50s, the raid was the last straw for the Department of Energy. Production was halted and a new contractor was hired to run the place. Idling this key plant also virtually shot down America's capability to make nuclear weapons. That's because Rocky Flats fabricates globes of plutonium that are the heart of hydrogen bombs. Bob Nelson manages the DOE office at Rocky Flats.

BOB NELSON, Department of Energy: It is the part that actually gets to a critical mass and causes an explosion to occur.

MR. BEARDEN: And you can do that nowhere else in the United States?

MR. NELSON: That's correct. You can make single type items some other places such as laboratories, test devices, for example, but you can't make production quantities anywhere else in the country.

MR. BEARDEN: If Rocky Flats isn't making new warheads, the nation's newest and highest priority weapons system, the Trident submarines and their D-5 ballistic missiles, can't be fully deployed. Under pressure to fill that requirement, DOE has undertaken a top to bottom analysis of the plant.

MR. NELSON: The end result of that is I think a pretty good schedule now that will lead to us starting the first building this summer and leading into actually beginning some production before the end of this calendar year and then ultimately getting all of the plant running by the end, probably the end of next year.

MR. BEARDEN: This is the first building DOE wants to reopen, Building 559, a laboratory to test the purity of the plutonium for the weapons. DOE has asked Congress for $283 million in supplemental appropriations to reopen the lab and restart production in the other buildings. That's on top of $1/2 billion already appropriated. But some wonder if Rocky Flats' products are really needed anymore. Congressman David Skaggs represents the district where Rocky Flats is located.

REP. DAVID SKAGGS, [D] Colorado: I think the Congress in the country needs to have a fairly thorough going debate about whether we need 18 Trident submarines with 16 launch tubes each and 8 warheads on each of those missiles in order to adequately deter a Soviet threat that's greatly diminished.

MR. BEARDEN: Others question spending a lot of money on a plant that will most likely be moved eventually anyway. That's because decades of accidents have convinced many Denver residents that a plant like this doesn't belong in close proximity to 1.7 million people. The troubles began long before the 1989 FBI-EPA raid. The plant suffered devastating fires in 1957 and 1969 that released plutonium into the atmosphere. No one died immediately because of those fires, but there are serious concerns about the long-term health consequences, particularly the increased risk of cancer in the surrounding population. Another major radioactive release took place gradually. Drums of lubricating oil contaminated with plutonium leaked into the soil beneath this asphalt pad and had to be removed. Rocky Flats is also responsible for toxic chemical spills on this hillside directly above a suburban water supply and as this Energy Department tape shows, over the years, enough plutonium to make seven bombs has escaped into the plant's duct work. That will have to be removed before the plant will be allowed to restart. This track record has generated so much public opposition that the Energy Department eventually plans to move plutonium production somewhere else. But DOE's Bob Nelson says national defense can't wait, that even if the regulatory process was underway, it would take a very long time to build a replacement plant.

MR. NELSON: So if you say two years maybe for an environmental impact statement, and then ten years, maybe a guess how long to build a facility, that logic would say that the thing that Rocky Flats does which no one else in the United States can do needs to be done for that twelve years, so what that says is that for that period of time we need to operate Rocky Flats.

MR. BEARDEN: But even if Rocky Flats does restart, it might not be allowed to operate very long. The plant faces a major dilemma, what to do with its own waste products. Even when idle, normal maintenance generates 21 cubic yards of radioactive waste every month. That quadruples when Rocky Flats is running. This so-called "trans-uranic" or "true waste" consists of things like piping, gloves, and other materials contaminated with plutonium. For 40 years, Rocky Flats loaded railroad cars with 55 gallon drums full of true waste and sent them off to another DOE site in Idaho, where they were buried. That was considered temporary storage, but in September of 1988, Gov. Cecil Andres called a halt and turned back Rocky Flats shipment at the border. He was angry because DOE's permanent repository for trans-uranic waste was far behind schedule in opening. It still hasn't opened. It's called the Waste Isolation Pilot Project or WIPP. The plan is to put the drums in man made caverns in a salt bed 2000 feet below the desert floor near Carlsbad, New Mexico. The theory is the salt would entomb the waste for the thousands of years it will remain dangerously radioactive. A number of scientists say that idea simply won't work, that the waste won't be contaminated. A whole series of challenges have repeatedly delayed DOE's timetable. Don Hancock is director of the Southwest Research & Information Center in Albuquerque, an environmental advocacy group. He says New Mexicans have grown extremely skeptical of the project.

DON HANCOCK, Southwest Research: They've heard promises from the Department of Energy now for more than 10 years about how WIPP was going to meet standards, it was going to be safe, it was going to be open in three months, or this year or next year. None of those have turned out to be true. In terms of the safety of the site, the more we learn about the site, the less safe the site looks, the more problems there are with it.

MR. BEARDEN: DOE now hopes to begin tests on waste emplacement later this year. WIPP manager Arlen Hunt.

ARLEN HUNT, WIPP Manager: The test program is scheduled to run approximately five years, but again it's a test program, it's a research & development activity, it could be less than that, or it could be longer than that, depending upon the type of data we get from the early experiments.

MR. BEARDEN: While WIPP plans its testing program, a clock is ticking at Rocky Flats. The waste continues to pile up. The law specifically limits how much can legally be stored on the site. The governor of Colorado has repeatedly threatened to shut Rocky Flats down if it exceeds that limit. Is it conceivable that you could go through this laborious process to restart the plantand simply have to shut it down fairly quickly because you can't ship the waste off site?

MR. NELSON: No, I don't think so. Even if we couldn't ship for that couple of three years, whatever it turns out to be, I think we're pretty clear right now that we've got that much time to resolve those issues.

MR. BEARDEN: And still another type of waste is piling up. It's called "pondcrete", a mixture of radioactive sludge and concrete now being stored beneath these tents. The pondcrete was supposed to go to the nuclear weapons test site in Nevada for disposal. But Nevada has so far refused to allow that to happen. If nothing changes, Rocky Flats could run out of space to store this mixed waste before the year is out. David Shelton runs the Colorado Department of Health's waste management division which oversees the cleanup effort.

DAVID SHELTON, Colorado Department of Health: We are very concerned that WIPP and the Nevada test site play the role that we know they need to play in the solution to the waste problem at this facility.

MR. BEARDEN: But there seems to be no progress towards solving that dilemma.

MR. SHELTON: And that is why waste continues to pile up at Rocky Flats.

MR. BEARDEN: And why the governor says he's going to shut it down if it reaches a certain level.

MR. SHELTON: That's right. That's why these limits are there.

MR. BEARDEN: So what do you do?

MR. SHELTON: We are going to apply the law as we know it and the requirements as we know it and there's obviously a large political part of this issue. I'm going to let the governor play that part.

MR. BEARDEN: But if the governor shuts it down, as you say, they continue to generate waste, they would continue to violate the storage ceiling and there's still no place to put it. What happens then? What should happen then?

MR. SHELTON: I can't tell you what's going to happen. If I knew, I'd be in good shape.

MR. BEARDEN: The problem is that no one seems to have an answer. We last talked about WIPP in the spring of 1988, three years ago, are we any closer to solving this problem than we were then?

SPOKESMAN: Unfortunately not. The last three years have been stalemate. We've been creating this waste for 50 years. To think that in five or ten we're going to have a solution to the problem is crazy. It's not going to happen, so it's going to take a while, but yes, I still think it can be done, but in the meantime, for the next few decades, most of the waste is going to have to stay where it is.

MR. BEARDEN: In the meantime, Colorado, New Mexico, and Idaho are on a direct collision course with the Department of Energy. If they can't reach a compromise, this political hot potato will have to be handled either by Congress or the Bush administration. Both have repeatedly shown a decided distaste for the whole issue.

MR. MacNeil: To make matters worse at Rocky Flats, the Associated Press today quoted sources familiar with the plan as saying that engineers have told officials that several buildings at the facility remain unsafe. In addition, the Energy Department, itself, said in its 1992 budget request to Congress that poor equipment at Rocky Flats could hinder detection of some radioactive releases and fires. A DOE spokesman, spokeswoman said that plutonium production would resume only in buildings where all safety problems were corrected. NEWS MAKER

MS. WOODRUFF: Finally tonight a News Maker interview with the president of Nicaragua, Violeta Chamorro. She talked last night with Correspondent Charles Krause in Managua.

MR. KRAUSE: It was just a year ago that Violeta Chamorro was inaugurated president of Nicaragua after a stunning election victory. Against all odds she had defeated Daniel Ortega, a revolutionary whose Sandinistas had governed Nicaragua since 1979. In her inaugural address. Mrs. Chamorro promised to bring peace to Nicaragua, the country that had known nothing but war and revolution for more than a decade under the Sandinistas. The first months were promising. The Contras, long supported by the United States, buried their weapons, bringing an end to Nicaragua's bloody civil war. The new government also succeeded in cutting the size of the Sandinista army from more than 80,000 soldiers to 27,000, a massive 2/3 reduction. But because it chose to retain the old Sandinista military structure, the new government confused and angered some of its strongest supporters, including many in the United States. The Bush administration openly opposed Mrs. Chamorro's most controversial decision to keep Umberto Ortega, Daniel's brother, as Nicaragua's powerful army chief of staff. The Sandinistas also still control the internal security forces and much of the rest of the government bureaucracy. In the countryside, at least 38 former Contras have been murdered since last year's truce, many of them allegedly by the Sandinista police. The government was also helpless to prevent the assassination of Enriques Bermuda, the Contras' former military commander, in Managua last February. So far, despite an official investigation, no one has been charged with the crime. But the government's most difficult problem and perhaps its greatest failure so far is the economy. The Sandinistas and their unions have used strikes and work stoppages as the political weapons but with inflation last year of more than 13,000 percent and with more than 1/3 of the work force unemployed, the government has yet to demonstrate that its free market economic program will improve Nicaragua's desperately poor standard of living. The United States has pledged more than $1/2 billion to help rebuild Nicaragua. But over the past year much of the aid was held up while the Chamorro government implemented painful austerity measures and made other economic changes demanded by the United States. During Mrs. Chamorro's state visit to Washington last week, Pres. Bush released another $135 million for Nicaragua and promised her continued U.S. support.

PRES. BUSH: Your economic stabilization plan requires hard choices. Economic reform after years of mismanagement is never easy and presents challenges to leadership, but sacrifice in the short run is vital to achieve long-term growth and development.

MR. KRAUSE: We interviewed Pres. Chamorro yesterday in Managua. Thank you, Pres. Chamorro for joining us. When you were at the White House last week, did you sense that Pres. Bush has a real sense of Nicaragua and is committed to helping your country?

PRES. CHAMORRO: [Speaking through Interpreter] I went to the United States on an official visit and at the same time to get closer together in terms of friendship between the United States and Nicaragua. Elements of understanding, cordiality and my wishes to express to the President of the United States always emerge in my conversations in terms of helping my country.

MR. KRAUSE: Were you satisfied with his response to your request for more aid and more help for Nicaragua?

PRES. CHAMORRO: [Speaking through Interpreter] Yes. I am very satisfied because when I go abroad to visit presidents, colleagues, I explain my wishes and accept whatever they're able to give to me I'm satisfied and know what Mr. Bush has offered the Nicaraguan people.

MR. KRAUSE: In your speech to Congress, you talked about sustained economic support for Nicaragua from the United States through the end of this decade. How much money is your country going to need from the United States in order to rebuild and reactivate the economy?

PRES. CHAMORRO: [Speaking through Interpreter] I explain to you about the debt we are now facing with all the countries of the world. That's why we got when we came to power $11 million. I knock on wood, I knock to the door of my friends that we need $160 million, yes, we need that amount in order to begin giving employment to the people, so that they be busy.

MR. KRAUSE: Are you ever afraid that with the end of the cold war and with the Middle East and other crises that are now so important that the West and especially the United States will forget about Nicaragua and Central America?

PRES. CHAMORRO: [Speaking through Interpreter] I know that that problem is critical, painful, but I have faith that the United States won't forget Nicaragua nor Central America.

MR. KRAUSE: Your country -- it's estimated that there is approximately 40 percent of the people here are unemployed and it's said that the standard of living has fallen to what it was 50 years ago. How much more suffering can your people endure?

PRES. CHAMORRO: [Speaking through Interpreter] Look, I can assure you that all the problems you are presenting now won't exit anymore because Nicaraguan people are hard working, take initiatives and money is lacking, and even though money is of no value sometimes, it is of value when it comes to working. I can assure you that this people will come forth.

MR. KRAUSE: Why did you decide it was necessary to keep Umberto Ortega as the chief of staff of the army?

PRES. CHAMORRO: [Speaking through Interpreter] Well, I decided to let Umberto stay performing his duties for a progressional period of time. Like in any other country where a reconciliation has to be held, as it occurred in Germany, Czechoslovakia, the Soviet Union, in all those countries where an ideology has had to be changed and only there as it occurred as well as in Chile with Pinochet -- I see no problem in that. The point is that in the case of Mr. Umberto Ortega he will stay as long as I decide for him to stay and that he knows.

MR. KRAUSE: Do you think that the Sandinistas accept the fact that you are the president of this country, that there is a democratic system now in this country, or are they simply waiting for a time to seize power again?

PRES. CHAMORRO: [Speaking through Interpreter] That makes me laugh. I have to smile. There was an election held, a democracy, and I think that there will always be a winner and a loser and in this moment there was a winner, Violeta, president of Nicaragua. If they accept it or don't, that's up to them, but my country governed by Violeta will complete its period in peace and in a better shape than we found it a year ago.

MR. KRAUSE: As you know, critics of yours, many of them in this country, say that you've made too many concessions to the Sandinistas, that they still control too much power in this country, the army, the police, much of the government bureaucracy is really still controlled by them. How do you respond to those critics?

PRES. CHAMORRO: [Speaking through Interpreter] In the first place there is democracy real and the people are now expressing themselves. That's not true what they say. Those people don't want to see anybody in the country. We're all brothers. Right now the one who is governing is myself. The decision making is between Violeta and her cabinet like in any other democratic country.

MR. KRAUSE: Enrique Bermudas, the Contra military leader who was killed here two months ago, who was responsible for his assassination?

PRES. CHAMORRO: [Speaking through Interpreter] Look, I would like to know who was responsible for his killing, as I would also like to know who killed my husband 13 years ago, because when my husband was killed, the president of the republic was the dictator, Anastasios Samosa, then we went to another regime, the Sandinista regime, and Mr. Bermudas was killed during Violeta's period. I was not here. I was in Czechoslovakia. I condemned that assassination.

MR. KRAUSE: Do you think you'll get to the bottom of this?

PRES. CHAMORRO: [Speaking through Interpreter] I would like to very much because it's terribly painful not to know who the killer was. That happened in my case when my husband was killed.

MR. KRAUSE: Do you like being president of this country? Do you enjoy your job? Do you like being president?

PRES. CHAMORRO: [Speaking through Interpreter] Look, I don't like it, but I do it for the love of my people as well as when I formed part of the government Junta in 1979, I put all my effort for the welfare of my people in order to convey the real, the actual image of my country. And therefore Nicaragua, a small country, with only 3 million people, I think I feel that I have faith that Nicaragua will be in a better shape, in better conditions than when I was born 61 years ago.

MR. KRAUSE: Today accompanied by Venezuelan Pres. Carlos Andros Peres, a personal friends, Mrs. Chamorro visited the tomb of her late husband newspaper publisher Pedro Joachim Chamorro. His assassination 13 years ago galvanized opposition to the old Samosa government and was a major turning point for the Sandinista revolution. On the first anniversary of her new government, his memory served to underscore Mrs. Chamorro's personal commitment to peace and national reconciliation. RECAP

MR. MacNeil: Again the main stories of this Thursday, the U.S. gave Iraq an ultimatum to withdraw its forces from the Kurdish refugee zone, late today Iraq's United Nations ambassador said his country had already pulled out most of its troops. Pres. Bush called that announcement a very good development. The Soviet Union agreed to co-sponsor a Mideast peace conference with the United States and Soviet Pres. Gorbachev won a vote of support from Communist Party leaders after he threatened to resign as the party's general secretary. Good night, Judy.

MS. WOODRUFF: Good night, Robin. That's our NewsHour for tonight. We'll be back tomorrow night with a look at Soviet politics and some domestic analysis from Gergen & Shields. I'm Judy Woodruff. Thank you and good night.