The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

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good evening i'm ray suarez in washington welcome to this newshour special presentation of the two thousand presidential debates you now seem alive picture from wake forest university in winston salem north carolina where in just a few moments was president al gore and governor george w bush will begin their second ninety minute debate tonight's format is a little different from their first encounter in boston it will resemble last week's vice presidential debate the candidates will remain seated around the table for the length of the program the news hour zone jim lehrer will moderate the exchange this high stakes confrontation comes just four weeks before the november seventh election and with most national polls showing the texas governor with a narrow lead over the vice president once again we'll have analysis as well as partisan reaction right after tonight's ninety minute account but we'll hear from syndicated columnist

mark shields and wall street journal columnist for hugo republican media strategist greg stephenson democrat raced rather and our panel of historians doris kearns goodwin michael beschloss baines johnson and richard norton smith we now go to jim lehrer in winston salem north carolina the capital at wake forest university in winston salem north carolina i'm jim lehrer newshour on pbs welcome to the second election two thousand and eight between the republican candidate for president governor george w bush of texas and the democratic candidate vice president al gore these debates are sponsored by the commission on presidential debates format and the rules are those negotiated by representatives of the two campaigns only the subjects tonight and the questions are marking the format tonight is that a conversation the only prevailing rule is that no single response can ever ever exceed two minutes the prevailing role for the audience here in the hall is as

always absolut quietly meeting mr bush was president vice president or in art ninety minutes last week in boston the total time each of you talk with virtually the same as if we can to the state and i come close to bush the first question goes to you one of you is about to be alive of the single most powerful nation in the world economically and financially militarily diplomatically you name a view for any guiding principles for exercising this enormous power first question is was in the best interest of the united states what's in the best interest of our people when it comes to foreign policy that would be my guiding question is in their nation's interests peace in the middle east is in our nation's interests

having a hemispheric free free trade and p stores in our nation's interest strong relations in the years in our nation's interest i thought a lot about what it means to be the president i also understands that and ministrations not one person larry ministration is dedicated citizens who are called on the president to serve the country server cause greater than cellphones i thought about an administration of you represent all american with the blue understand my compassionate conservative philosophy and restoring naming names except for one person danced with richard cheney who had done a great job in the nineties a vice presidential nominee who represents who i think people get to see why putin is a man of solid judgment against the person the stand by my side when the things i've done in texas as i've been able to put together a good team of people and mabel set clear goals and

goals are would be our education system and leave no child behind medicare for seniors to so security system a safe and secure foreign policy that's in our nation's interest and a strong military and then bring people together to achieve those goals were chief executive officer joseph thought long and hard about the honor and be the president of the united states estimates thought a lot about that particular questions and i see our greatest natural national strength coming from what we stand for in the world i see it as a question of bowing it's all it is a great tribute to our founders' that too and twenty four years later this nation is now look to by the peoples on every other time and peoples from the reporters are as a kind of model for for what their future could be and i don't think that's just it the kind of exaggeration and we take pride in as americans it's really true even the ones that

sometimes shake their fists at us soon is so they have changed that allows people to speak freely they're warning to develop some kind of blueprint that will help them be like us more freedom free markets political freedom so i think first and foremost our power op ed whelan odd to begin in ways that form a more perfect union the power example it is america's greatest power in the world and that means for example standing up for human rights it means addressing the problems of injustice and inequity along lines of the race and ethnicity here at home because of all these other places around the world where they're having these problems when they feel hope it is often because they see in us a reflection of their potential so so we've got to enforce our civil rights laws we've got to deal with things like

racial profiling and we have to keep our military strong we have the strongest military and i'll do whatever is necessary if i'm president to make sure that it stays that way about our real power comes i think from our values should the people of the world like the united states the governor and say should they fear as they welcome our involvement are they see us as a friend everybody and where i knew i would project us around the world as president will look at this as a oh as a country that understands freedom ordinarily or are erased or where you're from the chicken sixty i don't think that workers with envy it really depends upon how that our nation conducts itself in foreign policy for an arrogant nation they'll they'll resent us for a humble nation but strong will welcome this is our nation is still stands stands a long time around the world in terms of power

and yet projects trade center in a way that promotes free and so i don't think that what it is in a way that other than what we are were freedom loving nation and if we're not arrogant nation of them use that way before a humble nation they'll respect is only a group that i grew up i think that one of the problems that we have faced in the world is that we are so much more powerful than any single nation has been in a relationship for the rest of the world than at any time i've been in in history on that i know about anyone thought that there is some reason for all of us power so i think that the the idea of humility it is it is important but i think that we also have to have a sense of mission in the world we have to protect our capacity to to push forward what america's all about

that means not only military strength and our values it also means keeping our economy strong you know in the last two decades ago but it was rooting for leaders of foreign countries to come over here and say it as it got to do something about these horrendous deficits because it's causing problems problems for us the world and were lectured to all the time the fact that we have the strongest economy in history today is not good enough we need to do more with the fact that it is so strong nato's us to project power for good that america can represent that said give us those are our wealth target economy our power ring with a special obligation to the rest of the world yes it does not take for example for world that i think that i think we ought to be good for giving her world that under certain conditions i think for example if we're convinced that a third world country that's going that would reform itself the money would go into

the hands of a few that would go to help people make sense for us to use or well from that way or to trade debt for for valuable rain forest lands makes him a sense yes we we do have an obligation we can't be all things to all people we can help build coalitions with hitler troops all around the world we can lend money but we've got it wisely we shouldn't be lending money to to corrupt officials actually guarding in her generosity well let's go through some of specifics no no question that as president or the governor mentioned the middle east you're driving this stage of the game about diplomatic power here who we think in a state should do it we should do right now because all that conflict over there the first garden yesterday on ending the violence dampening down the tensions that have risen there are we need to call on syria to release of three israeli soldiers

and captured and we need to insist that arafat send out instructions to the whole some of the upper evocative acts of violence that have been going oh oh i think that we also have to keep a weather eye toward saddam hussein because he is taking advantage of the situation to once again make make threats and he needs to understand that i mean he's not only dealing with literally he is dealing with dealing with our city if he is making without a president's talking about there are the the use of diplomacy in the situation has a ready well it goes hour by hour and day by day means a very tense situation but in the last twenty four hours there has been some subsiding of the violence there is too much to hope that this is going to continue but i do hope that it will continue our country has been very active out with regular

conversations with the leaders there and we just have to take a day to day right now but one thing i would say were diplomacy is concerned israel should should feel absolutely secure about one thing our bonds with israel are far larger then agreements are disagreements on some details of diplomatic initiatives they are historic they're strong and they're enduring and our ability to serve as an honest broker is that that is so something that we need to show up well i think during the campaign giving out during this difficult pre we'll be speaking with one voice and i appreciate the way the administration has worked hard calm tensions like the vice president cullen chairman arafat to have as people pulled out to make the piece that credibility is to be very important a future in the middle east i want everybody to notion of the the president is really are for him

i will stand by israel suddenly that i think it's important reach out to moderate arab nations and jordan and egypt saudi arabia kuwait it's important the friends of people when you know each other so that when you do there's a strong wind but bond of friendship and asking to critically important in dealing not only with situations such as not her usual but with saddam hussein the coalition against saddam has fallen apart our is unraveling with that way the sanctions are being air being violated various we don't know whether he's developing weapons of mass destruction he better not be on their skin to be a consequential abbey the president but it's important have credibility and credibility is formally a strong with your friends and resolute in your determination four reasons why i think it's important for this nation to develop an anti ballistic missile system that we cannot share with our allies in the middle east and maybe to keep the peace be able to say that the saddam hussein to the world of the

iranians don't dare threaten our friends saw some poor and a keeper stronger ties in the middle east with credible ties because of energy prices were now in after a while the energy is produced from from the middle east and so i appreciate what the administration is doing a huge sense of shoddy fortunate to be the president than my administration reacted middle east so you believe or that we should take sides in this debate on the shrine about people pushing a weekend on stage to declare itself in another case of neutral bisque to always with them with with them to go through what we have to maintain the ability to serve as an honest broker and one of the reasons that's important is that israel cannot have direct dialogue with some of the the people on the other side of conflict especially during times of tension unless that dialogue comes through lights on it and you can we throw away that ability to serve an honest broker

and we have thrown one that we would throw away a strategic asset that support not only the us but also his room i do i do think theyre so i think that when it comes to time tables it can't be you know states' timetable as to have the sort of discussions take place is going to be a timetable that all parties can agree to have the you know the hostage and israeli secondly any lasting peace and then i have to be a peace it's good for both sides and therefore the term honest broker makes sense of whether the current administration's worked hard to keep the parties at the table reads i will try to do the same thing but it won't be on my timetable the artifact table that people are comfortable with the middle east people watching here tonight very interested in middle east policy and they're so excited that they will make a they want a base their vote on differences between the two of us president biden to handle middle east policy is very different

in the last two popular convinced people i could handle the iraqi situation better when saddam's i mean yes in a game out of it i'd like to course another reason this administration would as well but we we don't know is no inspectors knowing and director coalition that was in place isn't as strong as it used to be is it is a danger with no one fishing and troubled waters in the middle east and to be hard to get the importer rebuild that coalition to keep the pressure on and you feel that as a failure of the demonstration i do well what when i when i got to be a part of the current administration thought it was right after i was one of the few members of my political party to support a former president bush in the persian gulf war resolution on and at the end of that

war offer whatever reasons thought it was not finished in a way that remove saddam hussein from power i know they're all kinds of circumstances and explanations but the fact is that that's the situation that that was left with when i when i got there art and we have maintained of the sanctions now we go further i want to give robust support for the groups that our are trying to overthrow saddam's time and i know there are allegations that they're too weak to do it but that's what they said about the un forces that were opposing milosevic and in serbia and you know to be the policy of enforcing sanctions against serbia has just result in a spectacular victory for democracy but just in the past week and it seems to me that girl having taken so long to see that sanctions work there building upon the policy of containment that was successful over a much longer period of time against the former soviet

union and the communist bloc seems a little early to to have to declare that we should give up on the on the sanctions on and i know the governor's not necessarily saying that but i'm you know all these flights have come and all of them have been in accordance with the sanctions regime i'm told except for three where they notified i can they're trying to break out of boxes no question that i don't think they should be allowed to or you did he corrected that he stated position correctly you're not calling for eliminating the sanctions the court actually got on the cover let's go on to milosevic and and yugoslavia and it falls into the area where military power governor who question should the follows a village the seniors applying for us military intervention i think it's a triumph and i thought that the president made the right decision

and now i'm enjoying nato and bombing serbia support and when they did so i called upon the congress not to hamstring the administration and in terms of forcing troop withdrawals on a timetable was an unnecessary procedures or fitter nation's strategy is i think is good public policy i think it worked and and i'm i'm pleased that the kids made a decision i made and please the president a decision he may because the freedom to go work left to be done did you think you would not have happened the really do you think that milosevic would not have all in the united states and they would not intervene militarily is this a legitimate use of our military yes i think it is absolutely and i don't think he would've fallen had we not using force and i know there's some in the party and the disagreement that sentiment but i supported the president i thought he made the right decision decided that eventually made the right decision to take land truth of the table read how we committed ourselves offensively but nevertheless i think it worked the

administration deserves credit for having made it more it is important for nato to have a working subordinate would be strong and help keep peace in europe one reason felt strongly that the united states need to dissipate was because of our oysters when i know and i was in the important part of keeping the peace in the future and more work to do mays the same how one another's can be a political settlement to kosovo and the survey voters' one of all across on record saying at some point i'm i hope our european friends become the peacekeepers and bosnia and in the balkans i hope that they put the troops on the ground so that we can withdraw our troops and focus our military and fighting and winning war well i found a hardliner on this issue for more than eighty years when i was in the senate before it became vice president i was pushing for stronger action against milosevic he

caused the deaths of so many people knew he was the last communist party boss they're an indie became a dictator that by some other level he was still was simply a communist dictator on an unfortunate now he is trying to reassert himself in a serbian politics already just today the members of his political party said that they were going to win nor the orders of the new president of serbia it and that they question his legitimacy he still i'm trying to be actively involved he is an indicted war crime and he should be held accountable now i did want to pick up on one of them the statements earlier and maybe i have heard many of her previous statements wrong in some of the discussions we've had about when it's appropriate for the us or around the world the standards that you've laid down

have given me the impression that if it's if it's something like a genocide or taking place or what they called ethnic cleansing it and in bosnia that that alone would not be all that that that wouldn't be the kind of situation that would cause you are to think that the us ought to get involved with with troops now the other factors involved for me it would be and baldwin by itself that in me that can bring in to play a fundamental american strategic interest because i think its base our values not have i got that role for every week if i think it's in our nation's strategic get her cell commit troops a thousand or strategic interests key moments a vision shared because of early season ankle and that's what took the position that i think it's important for nato to be strong because i felt like an unchecked milosevic would would harm they do

and so the present situation is vice president of risk in a sense only for a moment a new question related to this and then i figured this out in the last twenty years there been a major actions of all the intervention of us ground air or naval forces and he named adam on persian gulf somalia bosnia at cause if you had been president or any of those interventions would any of those interventions not anyone who was to measure awesome awesome original report support in somalia of course again no i think that that was ill considered although i did support it at the time it was in the previous

administration and the bush quayle administration r and i think in retrospect the lessons here are ones that we that we should take a verse or so we're at an end eleven advised undercut make because you're a message of somalia start of the humanitarian mission and chinese into a nation building mission that's where the mission went wrong the mission was changed and as a result our nation paid a price and so i don't think our troops on to be used for what's called nation building an iconic arch is only used to find when war i think our troops are to be used to help overthrow the dictator that they're instant when it's in our best interests but in this case it was a nation building exercise and sing with it i wouldn't support either what about the eleven and yes

renee yes i'm all ears of recidivism among a conflict of interest on you know a character as good in persian gulf waters and bosnia and they've already talked about about possible that the reverse side of the question the governor that vice president gore mentioned for six hundred thousand people died and rwanda ninety nine there was no us intervention no intervention from the outside world was that a mistake not to intervene i think the administration did the right thing in that case i do it was a horrible situation no one like to see it on our in our tv screens but it's a case where we need to make sure we've got a new early warning system in place in places where there could be a ethnic cleansing and genocide the way we saw here in rwanda and that's a case where we need to make your ears are influenced or to have it countries in africa come together and help deal with the situation the ministrations and were really lovers never diminished version made the

right decision on training nigerian troops are situation just such as a salon and i and so i thought they made the right decision not to send us troops into one yemeni second thoughts on that based on what you said a moment ago about genocide and i'd like to come back to the question of nation going to only address first on all we did actually send troops into rwanda to help with humanitarian relief measures my wife over who can steer actually win on the military plane with general shalikashvili's on one of those flights but i think in retrospect that we were too late getting in there we could have saved more lives if we had acted earlier but i do not think that it was an example of a conflict where we should put our troops in to try to separate the party is for this reason jim one of my criteria that i think is important and deciding when and if we should never get involved in around the world it is whether or not to our national security

interest as involved and if we can really make the difference with milk air force we tried everything else that we have allies you know the balkans we had allies nato ready willing and able to go in and curiously for the murder in africa we did not know we have tried our country's trying to create an africa crisis response team there and we've met some resistance we have had somewhat with nigeria are blood in sierra leone and in that now than nigeria's become of a democracy we hope it stays that way than the nutmeg we can build on that oil because we had no allies and because it was very unclear that we could actually accomplish what we would want to accomplish about putting military forces that i think it was the right thing not to jump in it's heartbreaking as it was but i think we should have come in much quicker with the humanitarian mission so what would you say to somebody would say what in why after me why why the middle

east the y year the balkans africa with six hundred thousand people monsters are standing and africa is important and that your work in africa to promote democracy and trade anderson vice president michel nigeria's fledgling democracy to work with nigeria it's important common but there's going to be parties and releases a party for a lot of reasons says europe and the far eastern on hemispheric those are my four top particularly the presidents and will be engaged we're trying to have you work hard to get other nations to come together to prevent the atrocity i thought the best example of of a way to handle the situation as east timor when we provide logistical support to the australians supported the only we can provide whether that was a good model but we can't be all things to all people in the world to him and i think as for maybe the vice president acts begin to have some differences

and i'm worried about over committing our military around the world i wanna be judicious issues you mentioned haiti it i would have sent troops to haiti i think it was a mission work was a nation building mission and i it was not very successful courses billions upon billions of dollars and i must assure democracies any better off in haiti than it was before officer who already agree with those with the governors' views on nation building is a military our military do for nation building as he disbanded and to find like we were on that i would certainly also be judicious and are evaluating any potential use of american troops overseas i think we have to be very reticent about that what would jim the world is changing so rapidly that way i see it the world's getting much closer together like it or not we are now the united states is now the natural leader of the world all these other countries are looking to us now just because we cannot

be involved everywhere and shouldn't it doesn't mean that we should shy away from going in it anywhere both of us are counted by guests stating the other's position in a maxim listing stream way but but i think there is a difference here is this idea of nation building is a kind of a pejorative phrase but think about the great conflicts of the past century world war two during the years between world war was world war two a great lesson was learned by our military leaders and the people of the united states the lesson was that in the aftermath of world war one we cannot turn our backs and left them to their own devices and they bring up a lot of trouble it quickly became world war two enacting upon that was so in the aftermath of our great victory in world war two we laid down the marshall plan president truman the top we got intimately

involved in building nato and other structures of their week we still have lots of troops in europe and what did what did we do in in the late forties and fifties and sixties we were nation building and it was economic thought but it was also military and the confidence that those countries recovering from the wounds of warhead by having the troops are we had we hadn't civil administrator scum and to set up their own they're in their ways of beleaguered parents about this you said in the boston debate on this issue of nation building the united states military is overextended now where is that over expanded where other us military that you would bring all you become personally to say one comment about what the vice president said i think one of the lessons in between war one will work to as we wear military extra fee and we can't do that we've got to rebuild our military but what probably

have the military is we're in a lot of places around the world and i mention one that's the balkans are very much like to get our troops out of there i reckon as we can do it now nordahl advocate immediate withdrawal i think that would be an abrogation of our agreement with nato no one's suggesting that i think about every one of our priorities to work or their european friends to convince him to put troops on the ground and there is an example haiti is another example another are some places where i think we are supporting the administration columbia i think it's important for us to be training colombians in the hemisphere is in our interests have to have a peaceful colombia but term the use of the military some people are now suggesting that people will use the military to maintain the peace to do the simple thing is a time to consider a symbol force of some kind that comes in after the military that bill's nations are were all of that is that blood on your face it ice cream and what we need to do is convince people live in the lands they live and

build the nation's many i'm missing something here nation building poor from america absolutely not our militaries notified when war that was meant to do to get overextended around jobs and i'm not apple says i strongly believe need to have a military presence the korean peninsula not only keep the police on the use of the peninsula but the key regional stability and i strongly believe we need to keep a presence a nato member be judicious is the values the military is they are by the letters the mission is the clarinet a strategy obvious well i don't disagree with that a surly don't disagree that we ought to get our troops home from places like the balkans is as soon as we can assist mission is complete as what we did in haiti there there are no more than a handful of american military personnel and in haiti now and patients have their problems but we gave them a chance to restore democracy and that's really about all we can get but if you have a situation like that run our backyard with the

chaos about to break out in that flotilla was forming across the water there a ride in one of our neighboring arab countries there then then then i think that that we did the right thing they're out there and as for all this idea of nation building the phrase sounds grandiose and you know we can't be we can't allow ourselves to get overextended i certainly agree with that and that's why i've supported building building up our capacity have devoted in the budget i propose mr as i said last week more than twice as much as the governor has proposed i think that it's in better shape now than he generally does art we've had some disagreements about that he said that the two divisions would have to report not ready for for duty and that's not what the the joint chiefs say but there's no doubt that we have the continued building of

readiness and military strength and we have to also be very cautious in the way we use our military in the non military now influencing events around the world in the financial economic period world bank president wolfensohn said recently governor the us contributions overseas development assistance as war now almost than it has ever been inside a problem for you do you think what is your leisure idea about what united states obligations are a drum up financial assistance and that sort of thing and other countries the poor countries well as i mentioned earlier efforts were we can use our generosity to influence the composite wings who is nations i believe we all have for a but i don't think we are just there for me for the sake of foreign aid i think foreign aid needs to be a houston encourage markets and reform i'm a lot as we've just banning same for veterans have been spent the wrong way and are some pretty egregious examples recently one thing russia where we

had imf loans and in the pockets of a lot of powerful people in and help them help the nation i think the imf has got a role in the world but i wanna see the imf that there's a way to save the world bankers if you make a bad long will bail you out and he's been available for emergency situations but the president did the right thing on with mexico is very strongly supportive of the administration in mexico but i don't think the imf and our army and our be a stop loss for the lobby of a value a risk to themselves it's all look at every place where were investing money or make sure the return as good yet remaining nominations manon out make some changes that i think anybody reforms that in the imf generally supported it but i've seen him make some calls that i thought were highly questionable and i think that there's a general agreement in a minute what parts of the world now there are the changes in the imf the world

bank i think is generally doing a better job all but i think one of the big issues here that that doesn't get nearly enough attention is the issue of corruption in government in the earlier all i've worked on this issue it's an enormous problem and corruption official agencies like the military police departments around the world customs officials that's one of the worst forms of art and we have got that i can lead by example and help these other countries that are trying to straighten out their situations of find the tools and in order to do what i just think that this is an absolutely unique period in world history we're the worlds come together as i said they're looking to us and then we have a final to estimate are we going to step up to the plate as a nation the way we get after world war two the way that a generation of heroes said ok the united states it's gonna it's gonna be the leader and the world benefited tremendously from the kurds that they showed in

those postwar years i think that in the aftermath of the cold war it's time for us to do something very similar just about a way to provide the leadership leadership on the environment leadership to make sure the world economy keeps moving in the right direction and that means not running big deficits we're not there one or no surplus that means having intelligent decisions that keep our prosperity going and keep and shepherds that economic strength so that we can provide that leadership role in the culture and i must share their only nest a cigar and was i just always get ugly we can help many survivors in government believe the government now a parking lot of help people help themselves not have government tell people what do i just don't think it's the role of the united states to walk into a country say we don't this way so should you nothing we can help a

million acres the marker see in the marketplace is that russia for example we went and derisively severe some imf money and in the literature in aaron's apartment and others and and yet we played like there was reform the only people know for reform russia russia they're going to have to make the decision themselves but the point is going to have to make the decision is whether or not he wants to rule a normal accounting practices of the country's and more and entities invest capital there's a reasonable rate of return a way to get the money out the economy the russia has to make the decision we can we can work with him on security matters for example but as they're called in may so i'm not exactly sure where the vice president coming from but i think one way for us to end up being interviewed as the ugly american is for us to go around the world saying we do it this way so should you know we tried we drove freedom we know freedom is a powerful powerful powerful force much bigger than the united states of america as we saw him recently in the balkans but maybe amazon or so you come from the vice president but i think the

united states must be humble and must be proud and confident of our values but hongwei how we treat patients very own chart their own course that's not fourteen first first couple of follow ups from our the vice presidential debate last week yeah vice president or would you support or sign as president federal law banning racial profiling by police and other authorities at all levels of government yes it would the the only thing an executive order can accomplish is to ban and the federal law enforcement agencies ah but i would also support a law in the in the congress that would have the effect of doing the same thing i just i think that racial profiling is that is a serious problem and i remember when the stories first came out about the stops in new

jersey by the highway patrol and i know it's been going on a long time in some ways this is just a year a new label for something that's been going on for years about it but i have to confess that was the first time that i really focused on him in a new way and i was i was surprised at the extent and i think we've now got so many examples around the country that we really have to find ways to take in this book i imagine what it what it is like for someone to be singled out unfairly unjustly and fueled all the the unfair force arthur lot simply because of a price war or ethnicity and that runs counter to what the united states of america is is all about at our core and no it's not an easy problem to solve a blind eye if i am interested with a present see it will be the first civil rights back on

the twenty percent that got him as it would be like to be a single out because of race and stop and rest i just flat wrong and there's no america's all about so we ought to do everything we can and racial profiling one of my concerns those are the wire federalize the local police forces and one obviously an egregious cases we do have four civil rights law but we need to make sure that internal affairs division is at the local level do their job and be given a chance to do the job market believe in local control of governments and honestly if they don't really severe consequence of the federal level but with very importantly not overstep or bounce and i think most people most police officers are good dedicated honorable citizens who are doing their job and their lives at risk who are bigoted are prejudiced don't think they'll be held guilty but i do think we need to find out where racial profiling a person do something about it and say to the local folks get it done and if you can't there be a federal consequence

a lot and you agree i would agree and i also agree that most police officers are of course are already doing a good job and then take this practice also i talk to an african american police officer in springfield massachusetts not if not long ago i'll have to raise this question and said that in his opinion one of the biggest solutions in the training and not only the training in police procedures but human human relations and i think that racial profiling is part of a larger issue of how we deal with race in america and as for singling people out because of race or you know james byrd was singled out because of his race in texas and other americans have been singled out because of their race or or ethnicity and that's why i think that we can embody our values a passing of a hate crimes law i think these crimes are different i think they're different because so based on

prejudice and hatred which is which gives rise to crimes that have not just a single victim but they're intended to stigmatize and to humanize a whole group of people not overly on a crime boss not go in texas and guess what the three men are emerging as pertussis can happen to him they're going to put together a jury found him guilty and it can be hard to punish many were certainly be put to death is a right cause serious a right decision solely there's other forms of racial profiling was on american arab americans are racially profiling what's called secret evidence we were stopped and our we do something about that my friend senator spencer abraham initiative pushing a lot and make sure that arab americans are treated with respect to racial profiling isn't just an issue local police forces it's an issue throughout our society as we become a diverse society will have to deal with that more and more

i just i believe though i believe sure is upset her that most americans really care of her tower people are good taller people it's the very few that create most of the crises and the senate to finally do it what if you become president either other areas of racial problem area to do with this president involving discrimination measures and arab americans but also hispanics asians as well as blacks in this country where the biggest discrimination comes in public education when we just move children from schools my friend phyllis arthur should mourn the greatest lines of all why she said reading is the new civil right she's right and in an effort to make sure our society is as hopeful as it possibly can be every single child in america must be educated mean every child it starts making sure every child learns to read

he threw two diagnostic testing so we know one another's a deficiency the curriculum that works and final season and will puerto rican curriculum tested reading arbor teresa teacher retraining memories of a wholesale effort against racial profiling which is their literature when we didn't have better public schools we can we can close an achievement gap and it starts with making sure we have strong accountability among the cornerstones of reform and reform is to measure because when you measure you can ask the question do they know is anybody being profiled as a binding discriminated against it becomes a tool a corrective to and i believe the federal government must say and if you receive any money any money from the federal government for disadvantaged children for example you my show as well another jono learning if they are finding that they're not there has to be a consequence so to make sure we end up getting rid of the basic structural crisis

is education nothing more precious and not educating a child will would be on your racial discrimination elimination less as president well i think we need to enforce the civil rights laws i think we still need affirmative action i would pass a hate crimes laws i said ann i guess i had misunderstood the governor's previous position the byrd family and they have a misunderstanding out in texas also what i'd like to shift if i could have that what a misunderstanding muscular so i had thought that there was a controversy at the end of the legislative session where the hate crimes law in texas was so will fail and that the byrd family among others asked to support it and it died in committee for lack of support around the world and you don't realize we have hate crimes stefan i'm talking about the one that was a proposal to deal with what the vice president must not understand we got

hate crimes bill in texas and secondly the people that murdered mr bird at the ultimate punishment but they were better when there was a world within a world all in this case we were somebody's it's a gym onsite and they got they got the ultimate punishment i'm not exactly sure how you pass the penalty anymore and the death penalty we have to have a statue on the books that's a hate crime station texas oh oh oh i'm am not misled by although the news reports about this matter because the law that was proposed in texas that have the support of the byrd family and a whole lot of people in texas did in fact die in committee it there there may be some other statute that was already on the books but certainly advocates of the hate crimes law phil that a tough new law was needed and it's important to him not only not but not just because of texas

would because this mirrors the national controversy there is ending now in congress and national council because of james byrd because of matthew shepard was crucified on a split rail fence but my biggest because of others and in that law has has died in committee also because of the same kind of opposition and you would support they absolutely would you support a nationally groundswell of support or enhanced version of it not the center can be bridged the police at this restaurant were happy with our laws our books have built it there was another building a bank committee but our honorably it devastated fully supports a law like we do in texas were going after all crime or to make sure people get punished for the crime and in this case we can and we can enhance the family anymore they're putting those three poems and that's what's going to happen in the state of texas they're subject to question another vice presidential

debate fought governor or senator lieberman and secretary james said they were sympathetic to a rethinking their views on same sex relationships what's your position on that i'm not for gay marriage but i think marriage as a sacred institution between a man a woman and down i appreciate the way the administration and signed the defense of marriage act it was in the vice president's support when the president signed that bill supported now but i think and i know to secure institutions will be respectful people may disagree with me a record of doing so in the state of texas have been a person that would be called united are not a writer has accepted some accept other people's points of view but i feel strongly that that a marriage should be between a man or woman i groove that and i did support that law but i think that we should find a way to allow some kind of civil unions and i basically agree with that china enjoyed and i think the three of you

i'm not sure what kind of these israeli commandos de almasy i'm a person who respects other people i respect there are i respect what he says he agrees needs to be done and not your telephone but i i am i will be a tolerant person have in a tower person all my life and said and believe strongly that marriage is between a man and a woman do you believe in general terms that gays and lesbians should have the same rights as other americans and i don't think they're special rights and i think that i have the same rights well there's a there's a law ending called the employment nondiscrimination act i strongly support what it says is that gays and lesbians can be fired from their job because they're gay or lesbian and and it would be a federal law preventing a wondrous that it's been blocked by the opponents are in the majority in the congress i wonder if that government support of a law that means this is a question for a logical well i am no idea and i don't know the

pictures of the sly wit am the kind of person i don't hire fire somebody based on their sexual orientation mr vargo like to take the issue for the only thing is it in my you know in my concerns with how you conduct your sex life and i think that's a private matter i think there's still a lot of the glamour be respectful for people i'll tolerate people and i support equal rights than the specialized for people and some special rights had was that a fake gays lesbians whether that they give an answer given a special protective status and that that doesn't mean we should fully enforced laws and fully protect people and fully honor people which i will do as the president united states the subject of questions about whether gore had you see the connection between controlling gun sales in this country and the incidence of death by accidental or intentional jim i hope that we can come back to the subject of education because the governor made an extensive statement on it and i have a very different view than the one he didn't than the one he expressed but that having been

set off i believe that first of all is it agree on something for this i will not do anything to affect the rights of hunters or sportsmen are i think that the homeowners have to be respected and right to have a gun if they wish to the problem i see is that there are too many guns getting into the hands children and criminals and people who for for whatever reason some kind of history are stalking of domestic abuse really should not be able to get guns i think these assault weapons are or a problem oh so i favor closing the gun show loophole in fact i cast a tie breaking vote to close the company majority in the house representatives went the other way that still pending we can get agreement on that maybe they could pass that in the final days of this congress i think we all to

restore the three day waiting period under the brady law i think we should tell them the enforcement of gun laws so that there that the ones that are already on the books i can be enforced at a much more effectively and some of the restrictions that have been placed by the congress and in the last couple years i think in the last few years i think have been on fourchon i think that we ought to make laws gun free have the gun free zone around every school in this country are not i think that measures like these are important but also deter lots on a mandatory for starters and forcing along the way it's a land where somebody to carry a gun illegally run or suv and sell a gun illegally to be arrested if you commit crime and germany's reaction certainly in the law and and that may think that that the log local law enforcement officials need

help at the federal level people like project exile when the federal government intensifies arresting people really use guns and we haven't done a very good job at the federal level recently and emma make an ap priority secondly i don't think we ought to be selling guns people should have them that's why i support the instant background checks at gun shows one reason women as a background check is so that we're simply no way nasa mission of a gun or not in texas i try to do something in a mainly which is a lot of talk about sherlock's beings on guns sold the future i support them but i said listen if you give your trigger lock to make your gun safe and the media want or phrase would surely mr state of texas for free and that will raise the age at which you cannot carry a handgun from eighteen to twenty one i disagree with the vice president on this issue i don't hate me for registration of guns i think the only people who show up to register a licensing its licensing like a driver's license of a gun only people who show up are law abiding citizens i've

become a lot to show up and say hey look at me my id card is the law abiding citizens so do then and i and i just don't think gets to be an effective tool to make those we make the year keep our society safe right so on guns somebody was cast a vote based on your differences where the long operate for it i am for licensing by states all new handgun purchase was a litany of total license id like a like a driver's license for new and guns and then you know on other work the law says there was you have to get the license photo id land and before you could buy the gun correct unleash militias i think states should should do that for new handguns because too many criminals are getting guns there was a recent investigation of the top of the number in texas got were given concealed weapons permits so in spite of the fact

that they had records and the los angeles times spent a lot of going into that but i am not for doing anything that would affect the hundreds or sportsmen rifles shotguns existing are handguns i do think that that's sensible gun safety measures are warranted now looking at this is the year this is in the aftermath of columbine thought and paducah and all the places around our country where the nation has been shocked by these these weapons in the hands of the wrong people the woman who bought the dawn's for the two boys who did that killing at columbine said that if she had had to have to give her name and fill out a form there she would not have bought those guns that conceivably could have prevented that tragic fact the question about the differences on gun control what are the governor your point be between you and i on that for a month or for

licensing the pulley system about columbine pandas we get gun laws he says will have a gun free schools and everybody believes that charities at news got out he carried a gun into the school and r because that's what you do you're going to school but combine spoke to a larger issue that's really a matter of culture is a culture that somewhere along the line we're going to disrespect life or for a child in war candidate have their heart turn dark as a result of being on the internet and walk in the sun take somebody else's life some gun laws are important but no question about the social loving children and character education classes in faith based programs being a part of an after school programs some recent desperate child detainees have some i put on russia we love you and so there's a this is a society that parsons go do a better job teaching job right from where long and

we can enforce law but essentially a lot of preoccupation on wrestling as the baby's general law but there's a larger long love your neighbor like you like me love yourself an eyesore society must be a peaceful and prosperous society and i agree with a lot of the other things the governor has said we do have a serious problem in our culture and i have worked on the problem of violence in entertainment and dependent children she's worked on longer than i have but i feel very strongly about that and if i'm elected president do something but i think that we i think we have to start with better parenting but what i don't think that we can ignore the role played by guns i mean the fact is that there are even though no state wants them there are guns and some schools and the reason it's so difficult for schools to control that it's because in recent years there has been a lot of cheap handguns that are so widely available that kids are

finding ways to get ahold of them and i think that if you look at the situation as it exists here in the united states compared to any other country in the world it seems to me pretty obvious that while we respect the rights of hunters and sportsmen we do need some commonsense gun safety steps to stem this water guns are getting into the wrong hands that no question about that but there's also nathan be strong enforcement of the law some good it feels like that no matter where the gun come from to be achieved an expensive gun what matters is something amiss forces as has a lot to be a consequence so when i say we talk about the juvenile justice laws we added beds we're sort of equivalent of love we say if you get caught carrying a gun you automatically detained and that's what needs to happen and we got a lot of laws need to be strike them like an instant background checks at that that's important question in question as well as a halt

to new governor both of you have talked much about medicare health care for seniors and what about the more than forty million younger americans who do not have health insurance right now what would you do about that well i've got a plan to do something about that is to make health care affordable and available this way force or someone should be buying health care which is not to somehow the ordinary summer helping folks of young kids will never get sicker for him not to have any health care right now for those what i think we need to do is to develop an investment type vehicle that would be an incentive for them to invest like medical savings accounts would roll over capacity were you say to youngster who'd been your financial interests to start saving for future illnesses but for the working folks that do i have health care they can afford a couple things we do when we need more community health centers or developer that money in the budget

to expand community health centers all around the country these are places where people can get primary care secondly and they're they're good they're very important parts of the book the safety net of health care certainly that during a three thousand dollar rebate from the government if your family thirty thousand dollars or lesser skills that it gets higher that you can use to purchase health care in the private markets it still be a huge down payment for preparedness system if you awhile also a while convince states to alaska last states to allow the mother to match some of chile's health insurers money with typical purchasing power and make health care more affordable a while business associations like the national federation of independent business or the chamber of commerce and the national restaurant association two the association plans across jurisdictional lines so that small businesses of that the progress in national polling dr cost of insurance against the very best way to empower people to trust people it makes it there

and it's a practical way to do first people purchase health care insurance it's one of my top artists have to give every single child in the united states affordable health care within the next four years i'd like to see eventually in this country some form full universal healthcare but i'm not for a government run system in fact i'm for shrinking the size of government i was smaller and smarter government i have been in georgia this reinventing government streamlining projects and reduce the size of government by more than three hundred thousand people in the last several years and yet the budget plan that are put out our a quarter the los angeles sometimes again not the way these things are typically a measured as the percentage of the gdp will bring government spending down to the lowest level in fifty years or so i would proceed carefully to cover more people but i think that what we should start by greatly expanding the so called child health insurance or chip program two of

them to get health insurance that every single child in this country i think it's intolerable that we have so many millions of children without any health insurance so that is one month uproarious now i know that we have some disagreements on this and on i'm sorry to say that of that you know there is a record year and taxes minus forty ninth out of the fifty states and health care and children with health care forty nine four women are with healthcare and fifty of her families with health care so far it is a priority for me i guarantee i'm not aware of any program on well i'll just i'll just leave it that i think it'll be a top priority the vice president of texas and for swelling italy's not for a government run health care system i thought that's exactly what he and mrs clinton and then for

four and nineteen eighty three was a government run health care system that was forcibly stopped in his tracks so anyway we spent four point seven billion dollars a year on the uninsured the state of texas or our rate of an issue of the center's one issue and texas has gone down while the percentage of an issue in america has gone out our chips program got a late start because our government needs only four months every two years as president lincoln for a shock for some ways than warships or michelin recovery can work and sailors than you and therefore congress passes a bill after our session it seventy seven ended with gasoline labeling legislation in ninety nine we signed up over hundred and ten thousand children to chip program a couple of states or size report were signing off as any other state and i put on the original but i'll tell you we care about are people in texas we spend a lot of money misha people get health care in the state of texas and we're done a better job than they are at the

national level for dissing i'm sure you're right on well i don't know about all these percentages that he throws out but i do know that the blue ice actually that the reason why he didn't answer your question directly as well and my numbers roy the facts were right about texas ranking their last and families with health insurance and forty ninth out of fifty for both children and women is because those facts are correct and as for why it happened i'm no expert on the texas procedures but what my friends they're coming is that the governor opposed the measure put forward by the democrats in legislature to expand the number of children that would be covered and instead the record the money towards our pay tax cut a significant part of which went to wealthy interests he declared the need for a new tax cuts for the oil companies in texas an

emergency me and so the money was taken away from the chip program and there's you don't have to take my word for this there is now a federal judge's opinion about the current management of this program ordering the state of texas to design you should read that judge's language about are one probably had thirty one point four million show in texas who do not have health insurance six hundred thousand and maybe some of those have since gotten it but as of a year ago six hundred thousand of them we're actually eligible for him but they couldn't sign up for because of the barriers that they had set them to respond with aipac have those numbers correct is that its various charges correct it really shined a liaison hard hearted person and i don't care about children is absolutely wrong we spent four point seven billion dollars a year in the state of texas for uninsured people and they get health care he's not the most efficient way to get people health care about our minds in the number of uninsured in america during their

watch as increased and so the wasp but the facts are that we're reducing the number of managers percentage of a population and as upset as the populations increasing nationally but somehow the allegation that we don't care and get money from this interview that interests and not for children said if texas's is totally absurd and enlightening to say the jury is the people of texas there's only been one governor ever elected to back to back four year terms that was me and i was able to do so with a lot of democratic votes nearly fifty percent hispanic vote about twenty seven percent african american vote because people know that i'm a conservative person in a compassionate person to unfold as the numbers around i'm just telling our state comes together to do what's right we come together both republicans and democrats tell you the reason you brought this up this is in are you suggesting that

those numbers in that record will reflect the way that the governor bush will operate in this area of health insurance as president yes yes but but it's not a statement about his heart i don't claim to know it's hard i think i think he's a good person i make no allegations about that i believe him when he says that that he has a good heart i know enough about their your story too to admire on a lot of the things that you have done as a person but i think it's about his priorities and when a case actually why i think that the choice he made to give a tax cut for your companies and others before addressing this i mean if you're the governor of a state that was dead last in it and in health care for families and all of a sudden you found yourself with a big a surplus your stated ever had in its history would you want to maybe use some of it to climb from fiftieth say forty five or forty or something or maybe better i would never hears was directly relevant because by his own budget

numbers his proposals for spending on tax cuts for the wealthiest of the wealthy are more in the new spending proposals that he has made for healthcare and education and national defense all combined according to his own number so it's not a question of his heart gets its fourth i know it's a it's a question of priorities and values to use it mayor so that's simply not true what he just said of course and suddenly i repeat what it was not that we spent at the top one percent received two twenty three as opposed to form for thirteen spending the topic and to talk about what that when the top one percent pay will pay one third of all the federal income taxes and return it once they're the best because of the benefits because most of the tax reductions though the people at the bottom of the economic ladder stand in stark contrast the way to a man who is nearly fifteen million fifteen million americans out actually does have a different point of view it's a totally different point of

view he believes only the right people and it's actually i believe everybody pays taxes on the cash we're going to go back to texas for example for friedman we pay four point seven day i can't assess say the homes i signed a bill that puts sheriffs in place the bill finally came out at the end of the ninety nine session where we're going hard to sign of children were doing it faster than any other in any other state are sites comparable state making really good progress and our state years a lot of their children my priority is going to be the health of our citizens the folks about eight years to get something done in washington dc on the uninsured they have not done and they've had eight years to get something done on medicare and they have not gotten done in my case to the american people as if you're happy with inactivity stay with the horse that horse has a burnout if you want change you need to get some i know santa bring republicans and democrats together to get positive things done for america the questions of you or an environment in your ninety nine to book you said quote we must make the rescue of our environment the central organizing

principal for civilization and there must be a wrenching transformation save the planet you still feel that way i think that in the twenty first century wills see the consequences of what's called global warming and there was a study just a few weeks ago suggesting that in summertime the north port ice cap will be completely gone in fifty years already many people see the strange weather conditions that the old timers say they've never seen before in their lifetimes and what's happening is that the level of pollution is increasing significant barriers a good news if we take the leadership role and build the new technologies like the new kinds of cars and trucks that detroiters agent to bill then we can create millions of good new jobs but being first into the market with these new kinds of cars and trucks and other kinds of technologies you know the

japanese are breathing down our necks on this they're moving very rapidly because they know that is a fast growing world market some these other countries particular in the developing world their pollution is much worse than anywhere else and their people want our standards of living and so they're looking for ways to satisfy their desire for for a better life still reduce reduce pollution at the same time i think that holding on to the old ways and the old argument that the environment economy are in conflict or is this really odd that we have to be bold we have to provide leadership now it's true that we disagree on this governor said that you don't think this problem isn't a surly calls about people are used for letting the oil companies and the artic national wildlife refuge houston's just become the smaller new city in the country and texas is number one an industrial pollution a we had a very different outlook and i'll play this i will fight for a clean environment in ways that strengthen our

economy i want to start with taxes we are a big emotional state we were reduced our industrial waste by eleven percent clinton wore brown fields nearly ministration my state's history four hundred fifty of them our water's clean are now twenty one and around abandoned industrial site lead to suicidal in some of our urban centers in people were willing to invest capital and ran through rwanda's so for a lawsuit i think we are ephemeral liability protection depending upon when the standards of in that book you mentioned that the vice president gore wrote he also called for a taxing out big big energy taxes in order to clean up the environment now that the energy prices are not advocating those big energy taxes right now i believe we ought to own fully fund the land water conservation fund to go with half the money going to states states can make the

right decisions for environmental quality act i think we need to have clean coal technologies or proposed two billion dollars worth by ways that the other day an interesting factors acres in national petroleum reserve right next to improve the way that that your ministration open of respiration in a pristine area and it was a smart move because there's gas reserves a bear winnie gas pipelines to bring the guest and gases is a clean fuel that we can and we need to make sure that if we do control our plans at their mandatory on the plants must conform to clean air standards a grandfather plants as we get in texas no excuses and you must conform it was a practical things we can do but i started work in a collaborative effort with states and local folks you know if you're on the land every day survey and people care a lot about their landing care about their environment not all always to miss in washington dc on this issue when you see the basic difference in very simple terms

and to have three suns as between you amid the silent on the amount of that water was to make a choice what it from really strongly committed to to clean water and clean air and to cleaning up the new kinds of challenges like will it is right that i'm not i am in favor of tax cuts to encourage and give incentives for the corporate development of these new new kinds of technologies in and let me say again detroit is it rare and to go on that are we differ on the arctic national wildlife refuge as i've said we differ on whether or not the pollution controls only voluntary i don't think you can i don't think you can get results that we would differ on the kinds of appointments that that we would make is a fundamental that i think it's a fundamental they're easily given example heat we talk to somebody and wartime year

to mate wanted a vote on the environment how would you draw well i don't believe the commanding control of washington dc i believe was no set standard that i don't think and i think we'll be collaborative at the local levels and i think we will work with people to local levels and an eye about ways to make sure we can't wait to say something i'm not corrected the deacon an electrically control bill that i fought for and signed in texas has mandatory emissions standards first president as we noted the federal level when it comes to grandfathered plans for utilities years ago i think there's a different i think but i think for example take that when they took forty million acres of land have a circulation without consulting local officials i thought that was something you along on their own the logging is shiite and that's not the way out would've been to prep some of that land is to be set aside but i certainly would've been sold and the governors elected officials before i would've acted unilaterally why would you believe the federal government still has some new rules and regulations

and laws passed in environmental or anything absolutely saw other based upon science in a reasonable so lots of people employed i think it's an issue that we take very seriously but i don't think we know the solution to global warming yet and i don't think we got all the facts before we make a decision about the one thing i'm not going to do is i'm not what the united states carry the burden for cleaning up the world's air like the kyoto treaty what about china and india were exempted from that treaty i think we need to be more evenhanded as a daily ninety nine senators something that ninety nine senators support that position pull a global warming the senate that turnabout well that vote wasn't exactly supporters of the kyoto treaty actually ended up voting for that because the way it was worded but there's no doubt there's a lot of opposition to it and i'm up for command and control techniques either i'm for working with the troops not just with industry but also with the citizens' groups and local communities to control sprawl out in ways that

the local communities themselves come up with a lot but i disagree that we don't know the cause of global warming and i think that we do with its pollution our carbon dioxide and other chemicals or even more potent art but in smaller quantities of that because it's like the world changers going up weather patterns are changing storms are getting more violent and unpredictable and art what we gonna tell our children and i'm a grandfather and i would be able to tell my grandson when i'm in in my later years that i didn't turn away from from the evidence that showed that we weren't we were doing some serious harm and in my in my faith tradition it is it's written another book of matthew were wearing your heart is there for treasure also and i believe that that we ought to recognize the value

to our children and grandchildren of taking steps to preserve the informant in a way that's good for them diary i just i think there's been some summer scientists only mistrust of them had been changed their opinion will bid on global warming of france and has recently made you know both of you know about your own rules of people that i know i know that you're not twenty year old rule is you're not allowed to ask each other question i let you do at a moment ago for now you twice are at a huge risk that somehow or not so i did that or i do that is al qaeda and the teacher thought i am able to appear to care about this i think you're not only knew what the heck yeah i am of course

is a lot of global warming is we've taken very seriously i take it seriously but science there's a lot of good for the differing opinions and before we react i think is best to have the full accounting for understanding of was taking place and i think as your question i think both obscure lot about the environment we may have different approaches they may have different approaches in terms of how we do a local folks that his side an example of the foot of the administration's unilaterally acting without any input remember you gave a very good answer new hampshire about the white man's about housing or to keep a collaborative effort in place i feel very strongly it's employees serving one he edited the book plays out west however no question at last question for you are disposed of some clothes someone out of the boston debut here i made her campaign officials have charged vice president gore exaggerates the militias and stretches the facts suburb are you

the way these are serious issues this is a serious issue that the voters should use in deciding which one of you to mend the vote on november seventh we will make mistakes i've been on a mango so level or to myself you know on the arm i think probability is important and importantly that the president be credible with our support to the president accountable the four nations and i'm yes i think is something people need to consider this is this isn't something new i read a report for a memo from some in his nineteen eighty eight campaign for that the fellows named warning then senator gore be careful about exaggerating claims in the winter is that they would senator bradley saying he altered the eitc would've been happening mention last year it soon earned income tax credit so

anyway maybe cosponsor mccain feingold and yet even so i think this is an issue i think i found it to be an issue or try to defend my tax relief packets of that there were some exaggerations about the numbers people have to make up their mind on this issue and i continued defend my record and offended not propositions against what i think or exaggerations exaggerations like for example only five percent of seniors received benefits under my medicare reform package this week said the other day that's simply not the case i had every right in the world to defend my record and my positions they serve and that's what campaigns are about some of the details wrong last week in some of the examples that it was jim i'm sorry i'm going to try to do better one of the reasons i regret is that it is getting every detail

wrong that interfered a servile times with the point that i was trying to mind however many days that young girl in florida stood in her classroom hour long intervals only one day doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of overcrowded classroom in america and we need to do something about that although there are seniors to pay more for their prescriptions than a lot of other people more than their pets sometimes more sometimes than people in in foreign countries and we need to do something about that often not with the measure that leaves the majority of them off without any real basic else until the next president's term of four years is is is over we're right away are and that means doing it under the medicare program although i can't promise that i will never get another detail wrongdoing i can promise you that

i will try not to be on an award i will promise you this with all the comments and in my heart and in the world that i will do my best if i'm elected president i'll work my heart out to get the big things right for the american people that will be issued them actually of people and i was a lot of those oliver you to work as a what he says in the future in the campaign but earlier folks are forcing some awful things and an open an awful i mean i don't words out on me and what i mean is that economists surreal exaggerate are probably that users were bitter campaigning campaign officials and her campaign officials say buzz buzz over now calling now calling the governor a bomb worldwide and his memoir what is should businesses i know i'll use language like that and i don't think that that we

should if something is in europe who i understand that the commercial and you're here and i think i think that so what i think the point of that is that anybody would have a hard time not trying to make the tax cut plan that's so large that would put us into such a big deficits that gives almost half of benefits to the wealthiest of the wealthy i think anybody would have a hard time explaining that clearly in a way that makes sense to work to the average person as the candidates adoration i was just talking about as well following one having trouble explaining someone's standard of the closing statements and vice president correa tunes one of the issues that i would like to close with an online statement is education because it's an example of the overall approach that i think is is important this race is about values it's about change it's

about giving choices to the american people are and education is my number one priority because i think that it's the most important big major change that we can bring in our country i agree with governor bush that we should have a new account all testing of students i think that we should require states to test all students to schools and school districts and i think that we should go further and require teacher testing for new teachers also the difference is that while my plan starts with new accountability and maintains local control it doesn't stop there because the new choices of the parents to send their kids to college with eighteen thousand dollar a tax deduction for college tuition per child per year and i want a reduce the size of their classrooms in this country for one basic reason so that students can get more one on one time with teachers and the way to do that is the

first to recruit more teachers i'm a plan in my budget to recruit a hundred thousand new highly qualified teachers and to help local school districts build new schools i think that we have to put more emphasis on early learning in a preschool now here is how that connects with all the rest of what we've been talking about if you have if you squander the surplus on a huge tax cut that goes mostly for those at the top then you can't make education a top priority if the tax cut is your number one two three and four priority you can do education you can do both you have to choose our eye to the education and healthcare environment and retirement security and i asked your support jim thank you very much for the president thank you very much folks your workforce one vital for listening and running get some things done for america teammate issues left unresolved there's been too much for pointing to its

name calling in washington dc unlike unite this country and to get an agenda done that or speak to the hopes and aspirations of the future when i have an education system that says high standards local control of schools and strong accountability no child should be left behind in america oh make sure we rebuild our military to keep the peace eye i worry about more on today's military the warning signs are clear it's time to have a new commander in chief to rebuild the military and repair when women mourn they share their house better have a focused mission for military once and for all i wanna do something about medicare it if you didn't and two on the table which has been a political issue it's time to bring folks together to say all seniors get prescription drug coverage or some of the social security is important priority because now's the time back and say your seniors are promises we made you be promises kept that younger workers in our emissions system exists more younger workers and it would take some of your own money and invested in safe securities in a

bed or a return that money and finally and it really didn't actually probably we can sell our priorities are really like the vice president doesn't and huge government i believe in limited government and by having a limited government and a focus government we can sense some of the money back and people pay the bills whatever tax relief for all people who pay the bills of america's i think you can spend your money more wisely when the federal government can i give or listen and i'm asking for your vote and god bless and we will return next tuesday night october seventeenth from washburn university of state laws of the third and final debate it vice president gore governor bush see you next week for now from winston salem on job where i thank you and good luck ray suarez in washington you've been watching the presidential debate between al gore and george w bush families have now joined the candidate on stage and fades

between the candidates and moderator jim lehrer syndicated columnist mark shields and wall street journal columnist palsy go with me here in washington mark shields what you just seen this done well even the thing that was today like very for the first two thirds of my under wraps consciously very careful not to just certain weight class and i thought that governor bush are the biggest concern and democrats have been insisting that democrats i talked to the american people with very similar one in nineteen eighteen and then it seemed that day for the first two thirds of tonight i cover abortions comfort level was rising all of time and that i was so i was frankly yet this surprised that the

vice president gore waited so long to engage and by which he did do one has texas record that typically add in health care and that i guess that's no surprise to most of the undecided voters and the effect that some evil when was the way he tiptoed around the gun issue and kinect each case the last mls swing what i thought of the bush at a little cocky it seemed just a little bit pleased with itself and i thought that gave anybody turned the last twenty minutes of that debate i don't know what happened the mets game tight it i think that that probably was his weakest twenty minutes portugal is like governor bush won the debate but in part he wanted because are really most of the debate was not a debate between gore and bush was a debate between al gore of last week and the allure of this week and it looked it and i agree with mark it looked as if or when switzer sulfur a that he would be overbearing over the top that he did it himself in a big score the points that he needed to score and elect their governor bush played withdraw on foreign policy

which should have al gore is one of his real strong points on guns i don't think he played for two or draw i think it was that exchange the only real place where abortion to score points was on health care and the texas record and that's we caught governor bush got put on his heels a bit but they're by and large if you've got what george bush needed to do was to look presidential for most of the debate i thought he did that with exceptionally and where he did start to sing it was growing confidence was so sure of himself then he began to get look on presidential with that with the cheap asides and some of the shots although go away will be back what let's go now to margaret warner for some partisan reaction to tonight's debate and for that assessment we turn to two veteran media strategists republican greg stevens at by senator john mccain during the republican primaries and how preparing for debates against governor bush among others and democrat race rather he advised then senator now or in the nineteen eighty eight campaign and later that year helped prepare lloyd bentsen

for his vice presidential debate against dan quayle right so let's look at vice president gore first do you agree with marc and paul he heals human suffering too much he was trying so hard not to be arrogant or over the top or a formal debate dictate a lot about what were vice president or did when people are seated he's aggressive man in the city that they live in a disadvantage and normally if you see people will become more conversational the us debate you get college by any stretch of imagination of debate was a conversation and it took or walk they give parents in this thing for the last supper escorts real poise and health care and some other issues the pope or it was just a format that that was very i think this was a book format for not wrong with pretty much one of this format and you could see what was impressive man it's a disadvantage to how effective the thing for once oversaw absences a headline it's both candidates are for golden rule the highlight of the day was

incredibly of all gold is the push to fight fight for the core out for drink gasoline manifesto than actually i think gore was so coach against your coach to guess what one on the last of dayton that he really was contained i felt like there were several moments when he was almost ready to burst through and daddy he knew it wasn't supposed to say i held it in it wasn't really the baby's races was more like a discussion i think that certain voters probably appreciate that we have to keep in mind that the target here are the undecided independent voters swing voters in the middle who do you get offended by so called negative attacks of support but it was really hard to see where the winds were was very blurred and i think both candidates won a sense trying to blur the lines and that's not really a debate you advised then senator are you surprised that he could make the shift from the personality of plastic that

personally this week no no reason for any learns as it goes along the big change isn't all good public officials all the politicians they've actually able to make quick changes that they can affect what we have here is a tail wagging the dog in that they look at the vice presidential debates which was such a gentlemanly affair and i think that there was an effort to replicate that it's so wait until i think more sort of got trapped by his performances and was added that bed but i think he was trapped and that he wanted to show another al gore because you know what will once you had to stay with you a splendid nice man and he has this terrible reputation of being overly aggressive and now for governor bush the big test was creek here in command of issues and first what fourteen minutes was on foreign policy not believe to be a strong security i think they find it he's not going to be an expert on foreign policy but doesn't have the experience for example and john mccain i thought it

was was interesting that one of his first comments governor bush used a point that john mccain made throughout the campaign which was serving an interest larger than our old self interest which is very appealing in the campaign having this morning with also at washburn use the word came we talk about foreign policy or to say i may not be up to it but i'll have people around me more those eggs were what else about butch in terms of conveying a sense of command make people at people feel comfortable that he might be in the hot seat when something happens we tried to do common speakers is often as we could tell about the washed establishment and outside it supports and find it difficult for him and what i really exclusive father was present at stake the district common than i think i think that's a bit of a force and sometimes i'm offended by that and i think thinking people abroad be offended by those people that

licenses said the union georgia why i've got to say i commend governor bush on his language and the way he usually reduces things the simplest terms i think he is communicating in a more effective way with those very voters who are the target i think that's one of the reasons we've seen something of an uptick if there is one in the polls for governor bush i definitely think that he i think he won the debate because he got through it and he it showed that he does know something about foreign policy and i think he also conveyed the same feeling didn't last debate which was and likeable guy and you can you know get along or did a better job this time of trying to be that way but again i felt that he was you know he was right there almost river burst out i'm not sure when we will go for forty eight hours voters saw that what the voters thought of this massive forces stayed away first our website has your summer season and they watch baseball ninety and that would have the undecided voters which i think

graves that are mostly reports or if they watch the last half hour i think boards or point of the point of the political health care deserves a great issue for the for the target voter now what about the snow boaters that makes mention a couple times these people i think you're just gyrating going back and forth and back and forth who do you think did a better job of connecting with them we're sorry to say i think it's that one suspect carefully they don't care there are a lot of issues discussed about foreign policy they swing voters really don't care about five the american public doesn't care about foreign policy very much is in the transport for george bush but it isn't the subject of the voters interested and so i think if they want to very carefully well that's disappointing that is that frankly i think one of the success of the bush campaign in the last two weeks of saying three weeks they've done it to their advertising very well he's doing woman's

message and that is there's a difference here in the differences i'm for the people i wanna let people make their own decisions my friends to glory the same my friends in their midst of war is for big government he wants the government to decide your prescription drug plan was a government to decide these things and i think george bush than the second job tonight re making that point it was subtler times too so i think but if it was conveyed throughout the debate and i think from that perspective bush did very well i can leave it there thank you ray and now we turn to some of our other news our regulars and to go in life with me are presidential historians doris kearns goodwin and michael beschloss and journalist and author haynes johnson joining them tonight is richard norton smith presidential historian and biographer doris i was struck by something that george tenet was that at the end of the health care question in which he talked about the need for change it if you want change they should vote for me which echoed

for me from nineteen ninety two really can't work when the economy is doing so well with a much harder thing to make that case when people are feeling pretty good not only about where we are right now but about the direction of the country back in some ways at the cheney made the point better last time i talking consistently that reform reforming the military reforming social security reforming health care making some views of what we hadn't done in the last eight years the lines were blurred tonight i think deliberately for wanting to appear a gentlemanly lost some of the bigger in making those differences shark and i think boy gets alter his interest to have those lines blurred because if it's on the issues as everyone has said from the polls the democrats have an edge i think the question is they both learned from last week i think mr bush did show greater command more important in his lack of bumbling was to show more conviction and force of defending his positions and clearly gore was more gentlemen tonight and i was struck by the fact that only person who seemed to mention his name tonight with jim lehrer and that you know one of our records which he said the administration i was a part of here

well it's in the background is not really talk about and from his standpoint or simply is right he has to assert himself as the future i think that your question is the key was going into this debate tonight there are two questions before the country one was can the governor make a case for change in the case of the great huge prosperity is an urgent need for change and for more i don't think he's done that yet another question mark you did he seem comfortable to make people feel comfortable and i think in that sense the more you watch the more people don't feel like he could be the president and i think in that extent he helped himself like the one looks like that debate part of the texas record i thought and the question about the hate crimes and what we're gonna do with it was one revealing moment we were talking about the execution date we will wander mostly guys where the exit through the i mean that was that if that was just over some jolting think at a major so while there was

a very strong willed but there's some commentary that at the beginning of the debate everyone seemed to be getting along famously that's when you're talking about one affairs is that an extension of the old politics stopping at the water's edge idea know i think dancers are the new polls sandy struck last week what you know we set free will threshold for tonight mean basically the vice president away and be less annoying and the governor we have to be more coherent and i think both of them passed those tests i think this resembled the vice presidential debate informally i mean i really do think there's a significant contrast between what we saw last week the caliber of the discussion but the conviction that we saw the lack of artifice the spontaneity the passion if you will and i thought this was a rather thin was putting everything up but i don't think he's right i think the extent that people see and get comfortable with george bush and he passes that threshold of credibility these debates are working and any evidence here michael on the

vision thing yes but implicitly about something the porsche effect is not made dunne a sharp as he probably could because the argument he wants to make his this guy's for big government i'm for more limited government and that is really more in the spirit of the times is evidence bill clinton in nineteen ninety six sign that the era of big government is over but i agree i thought george bush will fully presidential tonight as did al gore and this could end up doing for george w bush what the boat today it's a nineteen eighty bid for ronald reagan both writers today with anderson john anderson a third party candidate in september and his famous debate with jimmy carter night end in october which was not only that reagan did a good job of making his case the people looked at this and this man and said this is someone i could be comfortable with as president they did not feel the way the beginning of the nineteen eighty campaign doris what about the credibility issue we heard the word several times but in george w bush's now when he was talking about the middle east increasingly enough but not directly even taken on direct way except in james

question about the exaggerations others that has at work as a stick well i think it's certainly sticking among the media and among the campaign that bush is putting out in terms of advertisements and i think or was smart to simply concentrate on the desk issue on how many days the girl stood because that was less troubling in some ways in some of his other embellishment which really do cast his need to be in the center stage when he's not really there and make you think of lyndon johnson talking about his great great grandfather died the battle the alamo that was their never died and that in itself is not important but when a president gets into trouble as he did in vietnam as reagan to embellish stories got into an iran contra then the credibility in the lack of trust can really be a last resort for a president there's no way of saying that you know up to that point right now but it's something he's got to be careful of the question was little bits of trust a long way and we heard a lot of personal by allied to al gore talking about his grandchild in the group are so while george w bush does that work were subversives little while which sometimes with people you can't separate them i think what we saw

last week his most of your going to hire people in the audience all these parisian things that seemed like part of a system it that like a natural if talk about his grandson why haven't we talk about the future of that was right but i also think the region raise that question in that the credibility that was a very interesting response that because clearly toward parents helped to say that to a guy i'll get it right for the people of the big things that will get write and push came back very quickly with a very sharp response later about exaggerating on saturday an effect whether that was one of the new rules on whole campaign denied that indicative of a horrible i think he did and i think one thing that just really came through to me especially in this setting up her two vice presidential debate last week these are two guys who really do not like each other and usually presidential candidates at least during the campaign is a natural antipathy toward the beginning of the nineteen sixty campaign and jfk said you know i like nixon the body and virile get ahead and they almost don't

but i've never seen that kind of veiled hostility that i sure so in the first debate and i thought was only a little bit more under wraps to life he quickly did it is limited difference but their debate on yes of course giffords will be made but when people like us surround and posters around and tell the people what they thought happened tonight and then the campaigns will filter that out until devise a strategy for around three are not the only ones watching now some final thoughts and backed a syndicated columnist mark shields and wall street journal columnist paul as you go or you fight over and one of things i think where bush came out looking better tonight we served in that he looked more assertive more forceful and i think they gave the appearance of conviction even when he was very worried really is not an expert like foreign policy at least he he sounded strong he sounded like he was taking a forceful position where the vice president gore sometimes

sounded more like a legislator more equivocal he's ian he's out on both sides of the gun issue with some accuse hedging himself on both of those are both of those things on health care it's one of my top priorities but i'm not for a big government plan will be very judicious he never really sounded like a leader and some of those notes i think he did help of self in that and that question of who will be a better leader the other thing was that struck me was vice president obama's way tonight to say i am for shrinking the size of government and i'm for tax cuts and it was it that strikes me as to what that means to me is is is that they know that last week governor bush or some points on this fob philosophical issue of who's for smaller or larger government and he needed to cover itself someone that i think that's down the road here and adventure governor bush mentions back to the vision thing it i thought that it was the scene i don't like this for inspiration wisconsin and i thought that quite bluntly al gore was running ahead of

government and his encyclopedic knowledge of government and george bush on the track at the end he went to this litany of legislative initiatives at the at the very end which i did not know i think it worked for him but we still looking for the leader of the nation were waiting for our leaders that i see in america this is how america be different is how american the better is on the larger grander and more humane and we're just like i thought that was the scene throughout the whole even as opposed to a more humble nation and automation which i thought was a subliminal message about oil because it was exxon esso and humble of you i know that you say is that he basically sees a combination you set me up for that lay and the other thing was i thought when that there were shows personalizing on criticism it can that i have a good heart you're attacking my heart and i i found that i think that can become annoying characteristic overstayed predominately another debate but there

isn't it there is a certain information i think on his part but i thought it was a good night for him well thank you gentlemen both and see the next one and we'll see you on line and again tomorrow evening on the news hour also be here next tuesday to bring you complete coverage of the third and final presidential debate at washington university in st louis i'm ray suarez thanks for being with us and good night fb it's a song would be written for teens with it reconvened more people with the same amount of land who has committed of

this nutritional resource that is all right this program was also made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting and by contributions to pbs stations from viewers like you thank you so who is it nice bed fb