The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

JIM LEHRER: Good evening. I'm Jim Lehrer. On the NewsHour tonight, updates of both the Kosovo crisis and the Colorado school shooting. Then, the president of turkey and the foreign minister of Greece assess NATO's Kosovo mission, and several students talk with President Clinton, a group of teachers to Betty Ann Bowser, about the Colorado tragedy. It all follows our summary of the news this Thursday.

UPDATE - HIGH SCHOOL HORROR

JIM LEHRER: Investigators found more bombs today in a suburban Denver high school. Fifteen people died there Tuesday in a shooting and bombing rampage. Two of the dead were the gunmen, who committed suicide. Jeffrey Kaye in Denver has more.

JEFFREY KAYE: As students in Littleton, Colorado gathered for the third day outside Columbine High school, this time in a spring snowstorm, the Sheriff's Department announced investigators had found two more bombs inside the school; they were attached to 20-pound propane tanks, and bring to about 31 the number of explosive devices discovered since Tuesday. Authorities say they now have more reason to believe that the two suspected killers did not act alone.

STEVE DAVIS, Jefferson County Sheriff's Department: I don't know how many suspects were involved. We feel like the two are the only two shooters that we have.

REPORTER: But what about the bombs?

STEVE DAVIS: I've addressed this morning the fact that we have so many explosive devices that we are questioning the ability for two people to bring that many devices in. Hopefully our investigation will show us if it were possible to bring in with only two people or not.

JEFFREY KAYE: The bodies of the dead were brought out last night, and today the Jefferson County coroner released the names of the fourteen students and one teacher who were killed. They were: Business Teacher Dave Sanders, who put himself in the line of fire while he shepherded kids to safety; John Tomlin, who enjoyed weightlifting; Dan Mauser, a shy sophomore; Cassie Bernall, an avid writer; Rachel Scott, a budding playwright; Matthew Kechter, a football player; Isiah Shoels, an aspiring musician; Corey Depooter, who enjoyed golfing and hunting; and Lauren Townsend, captain of the girls' volleyball team. Also killed were Stephen Curnow, Kelly Fleming, Daniel Rohrbough, and Kyle Velasquez. The suspected killers, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, reportedly committed suicide. The police said they had a video made by the two as a class project, purportedly showing a dramatization of them shooting athletes. The suspects' parents have been secluded, but have issued statements. From the family of Harris: "We want to express our heartfelt sympathy to the families of all the victims and to all the community for this senseless tragedy. Please say prayers for everyone touched by these horrible events." And from the Klebold family: "Like the rest of the country, we are struggling to understand why this happened and ask that you please respect our privacy during this painful grieving period."

WOMAN SINGING: Amazing grace how sweet -

JEFFREY KAYE: Coping with grief has been a collective mission of the area's religious leaders, politicians and counselors -- from a community vigil last night in Denver, to private memorial services. Coming together to share pain is an important part of the healing process, according to parent Brian Rider.

BRIAN RIDER, Parent: Well, I think just the gathering and the attention and how everybody feels, I think it's a really -- it's a healthy atmosphere from here on out. The newspaper headlines were, "Let the Healing Begin." And that's it. I think it will strengthen the community.

JEFFREY KAYE: Counselor Jerry Parmer has been working with parents and students.

JERRY PARMER, Counselor: This is something that has -- it's disrupted their view of the world. You know, their view of the world was safe, and it was very orderly, you know, as far as teenagers can be. And this has totally disrupted it. It no longer makes sense to them. It's no longer safe. So I get them to talk about it and, you know, find out what their feelings are and assure them that whatever they're feeling is okay. There's no wrong emotions at a time like this.

JEFFREY KAYE: Outside the still-closed Columbine High School, community members have erected makeshift memorials. A red Sedan has become a kind of a shrine since the shooting. It was parked there by Rachel Scott before she went to school on Tuesday. Katie Trojan says leaving flowers at the car helps her cope with the tragedy and the loss of her friend.

KATIE TROJAN, Student: She was such a creative, imaginative person -- she just -- it's really just hard to believe that she's gone.

REPORTER: What are you doing to cope? How -- what helps?

KATIE TROJAN: Just being around her car. It just -- just being with friends of hers, remembering how she was.

JERRY PARMER: Part of it is matter of closure. You know,they're able to visualize because if they don't come here, they can't comprehend it in a way. So when they see the scene, they see the car with the flowers, they know that's someone's car, and that car's not going to have that person in it. That brings a sense of closure in way. I mean, it's not a total closure, but it begins the process of okay, this is real, it's not a nightmare. I'm not going to wake up and it wouldn't have happened.

JEFFREY KAYE: On the heels of the shooting, the National Rifle Association scaled back plans for its upcoming Denver convention, but Denver Mayor Wellington Webb asked the NRA to cancel its convention entirely. In Littleton, police are continuing their investigation, checking for more explosives, and questioning more witnesses. Columbine High School, which was badly damaged by the explosives, is closed indefinitely.

JIM LEHRER: We'll have more on the shooting later in the program tonight. On the Kosovo story, NATO aircraft bombed the home of Yugoslavian President Milosevic last night, but he was not there. And the use of ground troops emerged as a major topic for leaders gathering in Washington for NATO's 50th anniversary weekend. Tom Bearden narrates our summary of the day's events.

UPDATE - CAMPAIGN FOR KOSOVO

TOM BEARDEN: NATO struck one of Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic's two principal residences in Belgrade last night. The luxurious, two-story mansion was gutted, its grounds littered with debris. The attack came a day after Milosevic's political party headquarters in the center of Belgrade was struck by missiles and heavily damaged. Milosevic and his family weren't in the destroyed residence, but Yugoslav officials called the attack a criminal attempt to assassinate them. Pentagon Spokesman Kenneth Bacon said the building was more than just a residence.

KENNETH BACON: It's also a command and control facility. It includes security and military bunkers, as well, and it is indicative of the increasing allied pressure as part of this campaign, and particularly, pressure on the very center of the central nervous system of the regime, the command and control system that controls the military and security forces.

REPORTER: Belgrade has charged that NATO and the United States are now trying to kill President Milosevic. Is that true? Are you trying to do that? And doesn't that violate the US ban against attacking foreign leaders and their families?

KENNETH BACON: Well, first of all, we are not targeting President Milosevic or the Serb people. We are targeting the military and the military infrastructure that supports the instruments of oppression in Kosovo, and we have been very clear about that from the beginning. There has been no change of our policy, but we are going against the very nervous system that is used to control the military and security forces.

TOM BEARDEN: Rear Admiral Thomas Wilson said the air strikes had degraded all major routes between Yugoslavia and Kosovo, and said Serb forces were suffering major desertions.

REAR ADMIRAL THOMAS WILSON: We continue to work on the lines of communication, and it's having an impact down in the South. The last time we talked, I believe, three of the four main lines of communication into Kosovo had been interdicted to some degree or another. I would now say four, all four of the main lines into Kosovo have been interdicted, and more seriously than they were before. Probably close to 50 percent of the through-put capacity into Kosovo has now been denied to the Serbs. And we continue to work on bridges, which frankly, are difficult targets. And we also believe that up North the damage to the lines of communications, as well as the psychological impact of seeing them destroyed, is affecting not only the attitude of mobilization, but even the movement and the ability to move reserves and reserve forces around the country.

TOM BEARDEN: But critics on Capitol Hill are wondering just how badly the Serbs are being hurt, because refugees arriving at Kosovo's borders continue to tell stories of unrelenting ethnic cleansing.

REP. KEVIN BRADY, [R] Texas: I think it is unconscionable to allow the atrocities to continue because we do not have the political courage to seek to cut off the head to go to the heart of this issue. And we are dancing around the Yugoslav soldiers with almost no damage to them. We have a military strategy that is politically correct, instead of seeking a secure victory today in stopping the genocide.

TOM BEARDEN: Yesterday, NATO Secretary General Javier Solana announced NATO would update an earlier contingency plan for ground troops. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright and British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook were asked if that meant the introduction of ground forces was growing nearer.

MADELEINE ALBRIGHT: We are confident that a sustained and relentless air campaign can achieve our objectives, and I think that most recently, the targets of the Socialist Party Headquarters and command-and-control centers are evidence of the continued damage that our air campaign is doing. We do not favor the deployment of ground forces into a hostile environment in Kosovo. We do, however, believe it is prudent to update our plans and assessments and to support Secretary-General Solana's efforts to do so.

ROBIN COOK: We are also absolutely clear that we are not sending in troops to fight their way in, in a ground force invasion, and that has never been on. Therefore, what may happen in the future, in the end game, to make sure, when the time is right, when it's appropriate, when it is safe to commit those ground troops to guarantee a cease-fire in Kosovo, that will be a NATO decision. It will be one that will be taken jointly. And there is no difference between us on the need to make sure we do some preparation so we are ready when that moment comes.

TOM BEARDEN: The leaders of NATO member countries are beginning to gather in Washington to discuss the Kosovo conflict. Secretary-General Solana has already said that no decisions about ground troops will be made during the talks. Meanwhile, in Macedonia, relief workers were allowed access to a group of some 6,000 refugees stranded without food on a mountain ridge. President Milosevic -- in a rare interview with Houston TV Station KHOU yesterday -- said NATO bombs were the reason the ethnic Albanians had fled Kosovo by the hundreds of thousands.

PRESIDENT MILOSEVIC: You are right. There are a lot of refugees, but they are a result of bombing. And they are not only Albanians. Everybody is running away because of bombing -- Serbs, Turks, Gypsy, Muslims. Of course Albanians, their number is biggest. Everybody's running. Deers are running, birds are running, everybody is running away because of bombing.

TOM BEARDEN: Milosevic's comments are completely at odds with accounts of western journalists who report the refugees are fleeing atrocities by Serbian forces. Russian Prime Minister Viktor Chernomyrdin met with Milosevic today, and late this afternoon a Russian news agency quoted Chernomyrdin as saying Belgrade was ready to accept an international presence in Kosovo under UN auspices. President Clinton said he had only very sketchy information on the offer.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: If there is an offer for a genuine security force, that's the first time that Mr. Milosevic has ever done that, and that represents, I suppose, some step forward. My interest here is in something that will work, that will have the support of the parties. My belief is that the members of our alliance want us all to be able to go in there, and that the Kosovar Albanians want to feel protected, and will expect us to be there.

TOM BEARDEN: Chernomyrdin was quoted as saying he could meet with NATO representatives either in Moscow or in Europe as early as tomorrow.

NEWS SUMMARY

JIM LEHRER: We'll have the Turkish and Greek views of the Kosovo situation right after this News Summary. The gunman accused of shooting up the Capitol last summer was declared incompetent today to stand trial. Two police officers died in that gunfire. A federal judge in Washington said Russell Weston could not understand the charges against him and was unable to assist his defense lawyers. Weston will be sent to a secure medical facility for up to four months for further evaluation. On Wall Street today, the Dow Jones Industrial Average closed up more than 144 points at 10,726, its second record-high this week. And the NASDAQ Index closed up 73 points at 2561. And that's it for the News Summary tonight. Now it's onto two NATO neighborhood perspectives on Kosovo and the Colorado shooting, through the eyes of some students and some teachers.

FOCUS - NATO AT WAR

JIM LEHRER: The NATO summit, and the Kosovo conflict. We hear from NATO's two southern partners, Turkey and Greece, who are among the closest to Kosovo. We begin with some background from Phil Ponce.

PHIL PONCE: Modern Greece emerged in 1830 after 400 years of domination by the Turkish Ottoman Empire. Since then, tensions have continued between Greece and its historic rival across the Aegean. Turkey's a predominantly Muslim country of about 64 million people, roughly the size of Texas. Since Yugoslavia broke up, Turkey has often voiced support for fellow Muslims caught up in the civil wars, especially in Bosnia. Greece is about the size of Alabama. Its 11 1/2 million people are overwhelming Christian Orthodox. Greece has often spoken up for its fellow Orthodox Serbs. The conflict over Kosovo has Serbia at war with the NATO alliance, and has spread closer to NATO members, Greece and Turkey. Tensions in this part of the world were part of the Cold War, and eventually led the West to create NATO, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. In the late 1940's, President Harry Truman used military and economic aid to head off a communist insurgency in Greece, and threatened Soviet incursions in Turkey. Both joined NATO in 1952, three years after it was formed. But being fellow members of NATO did not stop the tensions between them, especially over the Island of Cyprus. The two countries nearly went to war there in 1964, did clash in 1974, and have yet to resolve the future of the partitioned island. And there have been disputes, skirmishes, and occasional shows of force over conflicting territorial claims in the Aegean Sea. This antagonism was caused not just by geography and history, but by developments in modern Europe. The European Union let Greece join as a full member 20 years ago, but EU concerns, especially over human rights, have kept Turkey from moving up to full membership. Not fully embraced by Europe, Turkey also sees itself surrounded by potential adversaries: Syria, Iraq, and Iran. It has been moving to a military alliance with Israel. Greece and Turkey have tried to improve relations in recent years, but they were at odds again two months ago. Turkey learned the number one man on its most wanted list-- minority Kurdish Leader Abdullah Ocalan -- had been given sanctuary at the Greek embassy in Kenya before being captured by Turkish commandos. In the latest Balkan War, Turkey has offered to take in 20,000 Kosovar refugees, and Greece is letting NATO use its airspace and facilities while pushing for a diplomatic solution.

JIM LEHRER: With us first, the president of Turkey, Suleyman Demirel. I talked with him a few moments ago.

Mr. President, welcome. Sir, what is your assessment of how well the NATO military action against Yugoslavia is going at the moment?

PRESIDENT SULEYMAN DEMIREL, Turkey: Well, actually, the NATO has plans, and the military side of it is planned in detail, we do believe. And then the NATO believes that the results can be obtained through air strikes, and I think it takes some patience. And then I think the people should have confidence in NATO.

JIM LEHRER: There is new talk, as you know, Mr. President, about seriously considering the use of ground forces. What's your view of that?

PRESIDENT SULEYMAN DEMIREL: Actually, the military part of NATO for the time being doesn't require any land forces, and they do believe that they can finish the job through air strikes.

JIM LEHRER: So you believe it's working then?

PRESIDENT SULEYMAN DEMIREL: Well, I am not a military man. And then, you know, as politicians and civilian people, what we do, we decide on something, that there is trouble in Kosovo and this trouble is to be removed, and then military intervention became necessary. And the military side is being carried out by the military people. And the military people say that they have plans, and then they are doing their -- they are implementing their plans, but there are some difficult conditions, air conditions, and then I think they can finish the job.

JIM LEHRER: As a practical matter, if the military people came to you as the President of Turkey and said, "Look, we do need to introduce ground forces," would you and your country support this, oppose it, or will you wait and call it when it comes?

PRESIDENT SULEYMAN DEMIREL: Let me say one thing. This is NATO at stake, and I don't think the countries, member countries of NATO, should be able to bear the fear of NATO. NATO must be successful, and that NATO cannot afford to fail, and therefore, every country, being a member of NATO for several years, they should do their best not to give any harm to the reputation and credibility of NATO. And then if the military people comes, and if they say that the land forces are needed, definitely NATO should decide on it. And then, this is not a matter of Turkey. This is not a matter of the United States. This is the matter of whole NATO. And then I think the commitment all the member countries has against NATO, they should live up with the commitment they have. Definitely Turkey will live up with the commitment, whatever necessary, and then Turkey will do whatever NATO requires.

JIM LEHRER: But as a special matter of geography, your country has a special stake in this conflict, does it not? Help --help Americans understand where Turkey stands in this and what its special stake is.

PRESIDENT SULEYMAN DEMIREL: Well, I think -- put it this way: Definitely we are very sorry what happened in NATO -- what happened in Kosovo. That's deportation, that's human misery, that's genocide, and that's ethnic cleansing, and that there are people subject to this treatment, the Kosovars. And we have some special relations with the Kosovars because Kosovo was under Ottoman Empire 524 years. But the problem is now these people, the Kosovars, are close to Turks, or are close to Americans, or are close to the Albanians, it's not the matter. The matter is they are human beings, and they are treating -- they are being treated this way. I think it's inhuman, it's just tyranny, and that it's a tragedy. And then that's why NATO is in the saving of these people actually. This is -- this is totally humanitarian, and not the matter of Turkey, not the matter of United States, as I said. Definitely we have -- we are very sorry. Everybody is sorry. Everybody should be sorry. If a man is human being, he should be sorry what's being done.

JIM LEHRER: Now, Turkey, you are -- some of these Albanian, ethnic Albanian refugees are coming to Turkey, is that correct? You have let several thousand in already?

PRESIDENT SULEYMAN DEMIREL: Yes. We have committed 20,000 people should come to Turkey. And then we set up two camps, one in Albania, one in Macedonia, and then each one will take care of 10,000 people. That makes about -- then there are some people, they already come. And altogether, we are taking care of 50,000 people, and then not because they are close to us, but because they are displaced from their homes, and no matter whether they're Albanian or they're coming from Turkish origin - there are people coming from Turkish origin too and speaking Turkish. But the problem is I think if almost one million people displaced, and I think the civilized world should have something to do. That's what's happening.

JIM LEHRER: And you believe, Turkey believes that this is a legitimate, real function of NATO to do this kind of thing, no longer just a defensive organization, as it was set up to do against the Soviet Union; it has a new function and this is one of them?

PRESIDENT SULEYMAN DEMIREL: Well, as a matter of fact, now the civilized world should do two things. One of them was, "Well, it's not my business. I don't want to be involved in such a difficult thing." And then if there is killing, "All right, I cannot do anything." This is wrong way. The other way is, no one has today a right to kill the other, and then this is, I think, the commitment of the civilized world to themselves. Being civilized will not allow that some other people to be killed for nothing. And therefore, this is something which the better the -- NATO should discuss whether this is my job or not. And NATO is doing exactly the resolution, the United Nations Resolution 1199. And this is unhuman -- inhuman, this is tyranny, and this is ethnic cleansing, and that someone should say something. And I don't think the civilized world should see and watch. Therefore, well, something should be done.

JIM LEHRER: Mr. President, thank you very much.

PRESIDENT SULEYMAN DEMIREL: Thank you.

JIM LEHRER: And now the Greek view. It comes from the Foreign Minister of Greece, George Papandreous. Mr. Prime Minister, welcome.

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: It's very nice to be here.

JIM LEHRER: First, do you agree that this is a conflict about humanitarian principles, rather than politics?

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: Well, there obviously are important humanitarian issues in this whole conflict. I would say that what we are looking for, what we would like to see in the Balkans is a Balkan region, which is very European, very much in the spirit of what our values are, multicultural, where Serbs and Albanians can live together, Greeks, Turks, Romanians, all of the different Bulgarians, all the different groups there, we can live in peace, and be able to see that this is actually a very rich part of the world because we -- our cultures, our different ethnic cultures and different religions are not a basis for fear but actually a basis for creativity, dynamism, and cooperation, and to do this, though, it really means that we have to -- we have to create very democratic societies that allow for pluralism, allow for different views, and different approaches to life, and that's, I think, the basis of what a humanitarian and a humane society really is all about. With that, of course, we need to support growth, development. We're talking about some of the poorest regions in Europe. Kosovo is "the" poorest region in Europe, and that's one of the reasons why we have this conflict.

JIM LEHRER: But you heard what the Turkish president just said about what was going on in Kosovo at the hands of the Serbs. Do you agree? Is that view of what was happening on the ground, do you hold the same view?

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: Yes, we have been -- we have condemned ethnic cleansing very, very strongly, and Greece has its own memories of this problem, and we also have lived through what we might call ethnic engineering in Cyprus, where -- with our Turkish neighbor we, of course, have been at loggerheads over the past 25 years, where their invasion there actually created a new Berlin Wall. So we have actually two ethnically cleaned sections of Cyprus. One is officially recognized by the world, which is the Cypriot side, the free side, which is the Greek side, and the Turkish Cypriot side. And we would like to see this become a bi-ethnic or intercultural society.

JIM LEHRER: But back to Kosovo --

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: Yes.

JIM LEHRER: -- we can't solve the Cyprus --

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: No, you're right.

JIM LEHRER: I didn't even ask -

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: It just happens to be in the region.

JIM LEHRER: Absolutely.

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: -- and our sort of philosophy.

JIM LEHRER: But what is your view about the introduction of ground troops in the Kosovo conflict?

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: Well, we have from the outset had reservations on the military actions of the bombing in Kosovo, for basically two reasons. One was the question of how effective it would be, and secondly, the question that -- the spill-over effects in the region. We are very close to the region -- refugees -- destabilization of our neighbors and so on, and economic ramifications. We now have, however, have been -- we went along with the NATO consensus, and not only that, but despite this, we have been very helpful in --

JIM LEHRER: Despite your reluctance, you mean?

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: Despite our reluctance, we have been giving logistical support. The city of Tsaliniki, which is in Northern Greece, has given some logistical support to all the troops that went up to Skopje, the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, around 12,000 troops, logistical support to NATO, and secondly, have been working very hard on the humanitarian effort. Right now, we are number 2 in the world as far as the money we're putting into the humanitarian effort in both Albania, in creating camps there, and sending aid, and setting up housing in the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia; we are the only country that's now working with NGO's, non-governmental organizations, in Yugoslavia, both with the Serbs, but also the only one that exists in Kosovo itself, in Pristina and some of the other areas. We are providing with the Kosovo Albanians that displaced there with the food and medicine.

JIM LEHRER: But your opposition or your skepticism about the use of military force, do you think that's been borne out by these last four weeks of the bombing, or are you still reluctant? What -- characterize your feeling at this point.

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: Well, I think what want to do now is be as helpful being in that particular situation where we are actually in a unique situation being both a NATO country and an EU country and the only NATO and EU country actually right there, right next to the conflict. We want to be very useful.

JIM LEHRER: With ties to the Serbs.

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: And the Albanians.

JIM LEHRER: All right.

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: We have very close relations with the Albanians. We have very close relations with the Serbs. So we want to be able to be there and useful in actually resolving the conflict. We also want to be there and we will be there the day after when all the other troops have left. We will be within that neighborhood. And I think there is whether our crucial role will be to play a role in reconstructing the day after in the Balkans. And there are a number of proposals. We've been working them. The German presidency of the EU has been working on them. The United States has been working on this idea of a stability pack, a mini Marshal plan.

JIM LEHRER: Marshal plan, right.

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: And I think that is absolutely necessary for a reconstruction afterwards. So what we're trying to work on right now is how we can help in diplomatic efforts, in go-between, in mediating as this unique role within NATO and EU to solve this problem as soon as possible.

JIM LEHRER: But in the meantime, how do you get from here to there? In other words, how do you stop the ethnic cleansing? How do you stop the military conflict?

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: Well, we obviously have to convince Milosevic that there must be a solution where first of all there is a withdrawal of troops.

JIM LEHRER: Of his troops?

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: Of his troops. Secondly, there is a large extent ten of autonomy in the Kosovo area within the boundaries of Yugoslavia. There is an implementation force and return of refugees. And this is just something we must be able to convince him. And we have been trying through diplomatic efforts to do this.

JIM LEHRER: You've been talking to Milosevic, your folks have?

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: Well, I personally have been visiting. I visited with Milosevic on the week or so before the campaign, the air campaign.

JIM LEHRER: Have you talked to him since?

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: I haven't talked to him personally since, no, but we have sent envoys to Belgrade basically to talk about the humanitarian issues, but they've also been talking about the political questions.

JIM LEHRER: Let me come back to my very direct question a moment ago. If -- the issue of whether or not to introduce ground troops in this, NATO introducing ground troops in this, where would Greece come down at that?

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: Well, first of all, we haven't reached that point yet.

JIM LEHRER: All right. Okay.

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: And I think there are a number of NATO countries -- I think there's not really a consensus at this point on ground troops. Secondly, we would have to make that decision when we get there to see if -- what the actual situation was. But basically, we would not be happy about making a decision on ground troops. We think that we would hope to be able to get to a solution before that question comes up as a serious one. Right now it's not on the agenda. There is the -

JIM LEHRER: It's not on the agenda at the NATO summit at all, is it?

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: That's right. And it's not a question that's going to be decided now because basically there is this air campaign, and people are, all of us are hoping that sooner rather than later we will have a political solution. So we'll have to face that question when we get there, but I think there are a number of dangers in ground troops, which really have to be thought through as far as to how much they, in fact, will help the solution. We're talking about a situation which will create quite deep wounds in the region, and it will be much more difficult for the reconstruction afterwards. And our point of view, if you may understand, is that we're in that region. So we have to think about the day after much more, let's say, than maybe some of the other countries in the alliance. And I think that that's -- bringing that view into the alliance is an important one, because this is what we really want to see is: Can we create peace in this region, lasting peace in this region where people can live together? And we have to think about the Albanians and the Serbs actually coexisting. And we want to help in that process.

JIM LEHRER: All right. Mr. Minister, thank you very much.

GEORGE PAPANDREOU: Thank you very much.

UPDATE - HIGH SCHOOL HORROR

FOCUS - STUDENTS' VIEWS

JIM LEHRER: The Colorado shooting, and two sets of thoughts about it. The first are those of President Clinton and a group of students at T C Williams High school in Alexandria, Virginia. He talked with them this afternoon. Here are some excerpts:

PRESIDENT CLINTON: I think we have to ask ourselves, you know, some pretty hard questions here. What are the responsibilities of students themselves? What are the responsibilities of schools? What are the responsibilities of parents? What is the role of the larger culture here? One of the things that's come out of this that's really made an impression on me is that the young men who were involved in this horrible act apparently felt that they were subject to ridicule and ostracism. This is something that you see a lot around the world and throughout human history, that people who themselves feel disrespected, instead of developing an enormous sympathy for other people who have been subject to discrimination, instead look for someone else to look down on, so they can always say, "Well, I may be dissed at school, or I may be subject to disrespect in some other environment, but at least I'm not them." They had the wrong reaction to the fact that they were dissed. Look, everybody gets dissed sometime in life -- [Laughs] -- even the President -- [Laughter] -- sometimes especially the President. So these are some of the things that I was thinking about that I hope will spark your thoughts. And I think I'll turn it over -- turn it back to you and to the teachers to discuss this in any way you'd like.

STUDENT: I'd love to tell you all the great things that makes T C -- makes all of us feel so safe, and makes T C such a great place, but the fact is, is that, you know, I think the kids in Littleton also felt that their school was just as safe as we all do.

STUDENT: As a student, I need to have that guarantee of safety, and truthfully, I really don't feel safe anymore -- maybe not at this school -- it's really safe here -- but at other schools. I feel very sorry for the students who don't have the resources that we have.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: When I called the county commissioner in Littleton, Colorado, the woman who's in charge of the local county government there, shewas very, I thought, quite brave, considering it was in the middle of this crisis. The school hadn't even been -- not even all the children had been taken out yet. And she said, "Well, if this can happen here, it can happen anywhere," and maybe, finally, every school in America will do what is necessary to try to prevent this.

STUDENT: Because of the peer mediation program in this school, it has helped a lot of students. And I think that if they had that in maybe Littleton or if they had a type of setting where students could just basically talk and release, and it seemed like -- it really did seem like the tragedy in Littleton stemmed from a buildup of anger or aggression that really should have been let out. And I think that works with programs like peer mediation.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: What if they're too embarrassed about what they think is being done to them to talk about it? Do they get there only when they come to you, or do other kids say, "Hey, these two people are having trouble" or "These two groups are having trouble. You need to go to them." Can you all talk to me about that?

STUDENT: One of the things we do do in mediation, is we let the students vent out their problems. Each side gets a turn to talk, and sometimes there can be confrontations right at the table, but Ms. Finney and an administrator are there to take care of the problem. And I've noticed a lot of times that the more they talk about the situation, the more the real story comes out.

STUDENT: I think we also need to take a look at how easy it was for these boys in Colorado to get these guns.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: Talk about that.

STUDENT: And I know we already have a waiting period on how long you can get guns, or whatever, but I think we need to take some other action to make regulations on weapons and other guns, so that they don't fall into the hands of the wrong people and this sort of thing doesn't happen again.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: There is no other country in the world where it is so easy for people to get and misuse weapons.

STUDENT: What really bothers me is the students, the two students having so many bombs -- it seems to me that they're really into this Internet, having their own web page. I mean, what is our government doing to prevent this information, dangerous information, you know, so that they don't make bombs and they don't blow people up and they don't hurt people?

PRESIDENT CLINTON: There's been a lot of talk about -- if you've seen in the last three or four days -- about whether the Internet, plus having very young people play very violent video games where they, you know, learn to shoot people and stuff, that those two things have added an extra element to an otherwise already pretty violent culture. And I think we're going to have to take another look at it.

STUDENT: Whose responsibility is it, really, over the Internet, because what about the parents? What about the teachers, you know? These kids don't just, you know, have these computers in their own house and doing their own thing. There should be people watching them. It's not, you know, your responsibility or, you know, anybody else in the government's responsibility to keep kids off it. It all comes back to home. It all comes back to school. It all comes back to the community.

STUDENT: I think that one thing that my parents taught me is that, like a tree, you form it when it's little, and how you form it when it's little, it comes up right. So it should all start when you're a little person. Don't start to discipline your children when you're like 15. You can't do nothing at that age.

STUDENT: We are one of the most free countries in the world. Like, we have more freedoms, more rights than almost any place else in the world. And the easy answer in the wake of a dilemma like this is - you know --restriction of those rights, take some of them away; you know, high school kids, make them wear uniforms, make them have clear backpacks. You know -- we have to be careful that we ensure people's security without running high school like a prison system. We have to find a way where we can ensure people's safety without at the same time treating young people like second-class citizens.

PRESIDENT CLINTON: We can't answer that question. You've raised a good question. But let me just give you the other side of it. And you have to decide, in every case, whether it's an infringement on liberty or it's like going through a metal detector at an airport. I am glad you made the point, but the point needs to be debated against the larger -- the other large issue of individual freedom versus heading this stuff off. That's all I'm asking. And you might keep little models in your head about the importance of free speech, see, on the one hand, and the airport metal detector on the other, and then whenever somebody comes up with a specific, argue it within that framework.

FOCUS - TEACHERS' VIEWS

JIM LEHRER: The second conversation today was one Betty Ann Bowser had with several teachers who were in Washington to accept special awards. Here is Betty Ann's report.

BETTY ANN BOWSER: This week should be a time of celebration for all four of our guests, but the events in Littleton, Colorado have overshadowed that, because they are teachers. All four have been selected by their states as their state teacher of the year out of thousands of candidates. Janice James is from Louisville, Kentucky. And she teaches primary education. And she is the Kentucky Teacher of the Year. Mary Lynn Peacher is the Oklahoma State Teacher of the Year; she teaches fourth grade in Jencks, Oklahoma, just outside of Tulsa. Peter White is the New York State Teacher of the Year; he teaches Social Studies in a high school on Long Island. And Andy Baumgartner is the National Teacher of the Year; he teaches kindergarten in Augusta, Georgia. Congratulations. Thanks to all of you for being with us. Mr. Baumgartner, I'd like to start with you. What happens in your school district if you as a teacher spot a child that you think has problems?

ANDY BAUMGARTNER, National Teacher of the Year: Each school in our system is required to have an emergency plan in place which must be cleared at the system level and must be in accordance with their emergency plan, but I think what we have to focus on here is that no matter how much policy there is, a situation like Littleton is not something that can ever be prepared for, no matter how much we may try to do that. This is a reflection of the society that has some very serious problems.

BETTY ANN BOWSER: Mr. White, you teach in a high school that is a very similar type of high school to Columbine High School. what does your district do with a potential situation like what we saw develop there?

PETER WHITE, New York Teacher of the Year: Well, in November of '98, perhaps in response to many of the violent incidents that occurred last year, our school began something called a "Keep School Safe" committee or program, and that has many prongs to it, or parts to it. We have an anger control committee that works with kids in the second and third grade. We have peer mediation. If I spot a kid that has a problem, that Ithink has a problem, there are so many places to start, beginning with the regular guidance counselor, and they all know the kids; their assistant principals know all of their kids, the social workers -- we just have a climate at North Port High School in the north port district where intervention is strongly believed in and occurs.

BETTY ANN BOWSER: What do you do in Louisville if that sort of thing happens?

JANICE JAMES, Kentucky Teacher of the Year: Well, in Louisville, we also have guidance counselors who help. We have family resource centers who are supportive for the whole family, so it's not just the child, but we have help for the family. We also have the assistance of a social worker. We also try to be proactive and to help children be successful early on in the elementary grades so that they have confidence in themselves, that they care about the students in the school, so that they feel like they belong.

BETTY ANN BOWSER: Miss Peacher, what do you do in Jencks, Oklahoma, if you see children coming into your classroom in unusual clothing, talking as these kids did about guns, about Hitler? What guidelines do you have set before you on how to identify trouble before it becomes a problem?

MARY LYNN PEACHER, Oklahoma Teacher of the Year: We have a lot of support system through the counselors, but in my particular elementary school, we even have on-staff personnel from the local children's medical center to help those children with severe emotional needs, because it's the prevention I think that you hear us all talking about that makes the difference. We're trained at the beginning. We have a nurse, a counselor, but we also use the custodians, the bus drivers. Anyone who comes in contact with the children are trained to look for warning signs and we are a network within each other, so we are the inter-networking warning system, but the State of Oklahoma now has a statewide free, 24-hour number which is anonymous - any child, any parent any citizen can call if they see any problem with the school and the appropriate authorities are contacted then immediately.

BETTY ANN BOWSER: I see you nodding your head. Do you have something similar in Kentucky?

JANICE JAMES: Well, in Kentucky we also have committees that are working to have safe schools and we are able to report in any instances that we think need more attention.

BETTY ANN BOWSER: So this just doesn't just come out of nowhere in the context of your school districts.

PETER WHITE: I think it would be a big mistake to in any way draw the inference that, you know, because we have this, we now have to change and revamp all of the way we treat students. Intervention is important; workshops on how to identify problems with kids, knowing the teacher or the peer, and knowing where to go is important, and schools have been addressing that. I believe that the children are okay, that they always have been, and even kids that wear trench coats are okay. My son had his hair dyed blue a few years ago and he is a wonderful, loving kid and he is in college and he is doing fine. I think the blue went out. Actually, soon he is going to look like me; he knows that, so I said "Do what you want with your hair now." But the notion that kids who may dress a little differently, that is a fashion statement in -- where I work, that is not necessarily a sign of any kind of neo-Nazi movement or you know -- the problem here is anger and guns, the problem isn't really what they wore, so to all the students listening who might wear trench coats, you're fine, you understand what I am saying?

MARY LYNN PEACHER: Well, in my school, they're not allowed to wear T-shirts with any logo that promotes violence or alcohol or drug abuse or anything like that. And we do have codes about, you know, coloring hair and that kind of thing. But you negotiate it with the children in a way, but then you're the adult. You're the person in charge, and you set the guideline because you have to set that standard for them, so they can learn to make the right choices and have that modeled for them.

PETER WHITE: We just have a slightly different approach in New York because 30 years ago the courts said in very famous cases like Tinker Versus Des Moines, Iowa, that the Constitution of the United States does not stop at the schoolhouse door. And cases that followed that allow a lot of student due process. We're happy in our school that we have a student ombudsman. If the student is right in any way is trampled or reduce, the student has someplace to go. We do have rules against vulgarity and things like that.

MARY LYNN PEACHER: Right.

PETER WHITE: You can't wear a T-shirt that says -

MARY LYNN PEACHER: Well, it's not a total - I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't -

PETER WHITE: Right.

MARY LYNN PEACHER: -- the democratic rights weren't - but it's not like they can't vote. You know, they can, in a way. That's why I'm saying there's negotiation.

PETER WHITE: But dress is part of speech, and as long as that dress is not obscene -

MARY LYNN PEACHER: Yes, that's right.

PETER WHITE: -- or vulgar or, I guess -

MARY LYNN PEACHER: A positive expression of self -- a creative expression of self.

BETTY ANN BOWSER: But where do you draw the line between a student's right to free expression to dye his hair blue, to pierce various parts of his body, and the student that potentially could cause an incident?

PETER WHITE: Incidents can happen -

ANDY BAUMGARTNER: I think that and many other characteristics are going to have to be in the discussion that comes out of this. We are going to have to discuss every aspect of what could have been done, what should have been done, what might be done in the future, but as Peter is trying to say, we have to look at all sides and all aspects of this tragedy. There is no other way to look at it. Certainly nothing good can come from it, but hopefully a dialogue can come from it that will make all of us, teachers, students, parents, citizens, aware that we have a societal problem that impacts on our schools and that we as teachers are not solely responsible for dealing with this problems or with the success of our schools in meeting the needs of these students. We need active participation from each and every member of society.

BETTY ANN BOWSER: One of the people killed in Colorado this week was a teacher, and there have been other incidents where teachers have been killed. Do any of you ever worry that you might be going into a similar position where you could be harmed?

MARY LYNN PEACHER: None of us live in fear of it. You can't. And having more locks and more gadgets to detect guns and that kind of thing is not going to solve the problem. We have to start building the children before this becomes a problem. It's too late to tell a parent when their 16 your child is in trouble and I wish you would do something about it. Well, it is never too late, but that is awfully late to start then and the prevention has to start before that. Safety can't be legislated; it has to be taken care of as an entire community and we realize that. We can't live in fear of it but we can certainly be aware of safety issues that keepus all a lot safer.

BETTY ANN BOWSER: Some people are saying because of these incidents, that schools need to have policemen in the hallways, that the school needs to have one main door as opposed to 18 doors for kids to come through, there should be metal detectors, more security, secret cameras, the whole nine yards. What do you all say?

PETER WHITE: I think it's nonsense. I think that - first of all these two young men could have done this at a mall, a shopping mall. They could have gunned down the school bus five miles away from the building if they really wanted to hurt people, kill people, including take their own lives. I don't think -- schools aren't jails.

ANDY BAUMGARTNER: I certainly think we have to keep the discussion open to any areas that are going to affect us and certainly the safety of our children is in all of our hearts and especially the parents in the school, so therefore the discussion has to remain open for anyone has to put in their ideas. I think those ideas have to be evaluated very carefully and I think they have to be looked at and chosen between as to what is best for our children, but again, I hope that the discussion will center more on what we need to do with children as they enter our schools, as they continue through our schools, to help them feel that they are quality members of our society that have something positive to contribute, that each one enters with dignity and leaves with dignity.

BETTY ANN BOWSER: What do you as teachers think you need to do in a concrete form to prevent these things from continuing to take place in our society?

PETER WHITE: I think all of us are advocates of teachers and young people, and we have our critics -- but I think the fundamental job of educating kids really does lie with parents. And, you know, times have changed. I don't know how many percentage of both parents are working. A lot of kids go home to empty homes and so they need us more than maybe ever before. These experts say that it is the permissiveness in schools and the problem with what is on TV and the movies and the violence and they want to return to the good old days when we had a stronger moral center or something, you know. I don't know that the good old days were ever that good. When I went to high school, in those days, I don't know if Janice could have gotten a cup of coffee, you know, at a coffee counter in half the states in our country. If that is the good old days that we are going back to, I will take the present any day and deal with the problems that we have and trust the teachers, and the kids are okay.

BETTY ANN BOWSER: We're going to have to leave it there. Thank you very much.

RECAP

JIM LEHRER: To recap today's developments in the Denver story, investigators found more bombs in the suburban high school where the 15 people died in that shooting and bombing assault. The names of the 14 students and one teacher were released. And in the Kosovo story today, NATO aircraft bombed the Belgrade residence of Yugoslavian President Milosevic. But he wasn't there. And the Pentagon said NATO air strikes have disrupted major transportation routes and provoked desertions by Serb troops. We'll see you online, and again here tomorrow evening with Shields and Gigot and a NewsMaker interview with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, among other things. I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank you and good night.