The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

snowden might consider the lesson about the drug problem but you know i think it has a better for the future senator they'll vote against student loans against had started his creative form of education if he gets elected president will start the new century without anyone in the cabinet president representing education our children i personally don't think that's the right and a future for america and it will take a different tack center building is still favor eliminating the part of education yes i did a favorite numbers and started i voted against that it was a tribute to president carter election recount of the national education association some a lot of delegates the democratic convention give ninety nine point five percent of their money and read democrats and the present and one of the teachers and there is the private schools are better public schools so what we want to do is call opportunity scholarships now some so you're a republican you can't be reaching out to these people have reached out to people my life i worked on the food stamp program probably and the wic program in the school lunch

program listeners like george mcgovern uber alperin others to name a few my democratic friends i met some extremist that are i care about the imo on the foundation's truth about ten million dollars for the disabled don't advertise just been ever before i try to do a lot of things that i think might be helpful to the boat seemed to me that a lot of take that money we can save a part of education that an opportunity scholarships until the land they'll shakespeare cleveland ohio and tell your mother and father you're going to get to go to school as ravenna match with the statements of goes through your choice i don't fault the president the vice president's energy and private schools are better schools are poor i don't criticize a voice in their body and that joyce why should low income americans and low middle income american i'm excited about is going to be a big big opportunity for a lottery they say first of all i am all for students have more choices we worked hard to expand public school choice and a

balanced budget bill there's plans for three thousand new schools created by teachers and parents sometimes but businesspeople call charter schools that have no rules are free of bureaucracy and to know its existence if they perform and teach children the ones that are out there doing well what i'm against is so the bill's plan to take money away from all the children we now help with limited federal funds and helped far fewer uber by have a private about her plan there'll be done at the local level in the state that senator dole has consistently opposed federal health education he voted against a long as might improve student loan plan he voted against the national service bill against the headstart bill he voted against our efforts of safe and drug free schools he had voted against these problems he does not believe that that's the issue nine percent of our kids are out there in the public schools and we lift their standards and move them forward with the problems like those other one in this campaign i'm robert record time a business putting in

late so all these things i voted against her body part of some big package of a lot of fortunate a lot of things we should know that republican i've supported only education provide support head start and look at it so i don't embody up to think that we've used that are voting no no no let's give low income parents the same right that people are impressed ej have in america let them go to better schools less not just help us turn his groove back to the teachers and back to the parent and taking away from the national education association but russell crowe school chores all i support school choice i support school choice i have advocated expenses until the school to us alternatives and i said the creation of three thousand new schools that we're going to help displaced finest but if you're gonna have a private plan the army determined by states and localities with raising spending most of them and i simply think it's wrong to take money away from programs that are helping build basic skills for kids nine percent of them are in the public schools to take money away

from programs they're helping fund the school lunch program or helping to find the other problems are helping artists tools to improve their standards are schools are getting better and our schools can be made to be even better still with the right kind of community leadership and partnership with the school level i have been a strong force a reform center are reunited a few years ago when i supported the teacher testing long landslide that i was pre well lambasted by the teachers association i just don't believe we are be out there running down teachers and attacking where you give the republican convention i think we all be lifting them up and moving out jones' fall and let me just say that budget you pass about the tilt would have cut fifty thousand kids out of head start it wouldn't eliminate the americorps plan and it would've cut back on student loans and scholarships now it would have that's a fact that's one of the big reasons of the village we need to be doing more education not less the americorps program us if that's one year's successes i wouldn't speak about it throughout his boss about twenty seven thousand dollars to pay

people volunteer got four million young people volunteering every year the number has gone down you got twenty thousand when you need them or not and they get paid for voluntarily i like young people are likely to learn about the public school or private school for some was the time in your life are like teachers you're not their school joyce you can't be pursued joyce is this a special interest money again you get ninety nine point five percent of the money we don't what happened the other point five percent were looking for somebody that all of the democrats and this is part of their ballistic missiles were both trying to get his can do your cure for school uniforms and curfews and you're both the truancy that's not reformers white can randell shakespeare in cleveland or pr gonzales in milwaukee give their children are not going to go to a better school some schools aren't safe some schools are unsafe and your choices nothing was given real to aspire to issue have mcconnell joyce a lot

of people out in america if we want to stop crime and human rights and let's start with education forcible several let's the set the record straight and i was able to work for two years when i was in a very young boy to go to catholic school but i basically went to public schools all my life and i work hard for a long time i can better nine percent of our kids later you it's amazingly you're all for having more responsibility at the local level for everything except schools where we don't have very much money the federal level spent on education we are the senate held a ninety percent of the kids that we can help if a local school district in cleveland or anyplace else was to have a private school choice plan like the walking dead let them have that i might say the results are how ambiguous what i wanna get out there get a better education opportunity all of our children and that's why they told the budget that compares with thirty billion dollars in education cuts it was wrong in our plan for the future senator goal of republicans in the

fall because it is demeaning to the nation they're within the clinton administration the core of the elite and never grew up never did anything or you never sacrifice never suffered and never learned the power of fun with your names they're dubious and self serving states end quote precisely and what precisely did you have an aunt i have a side than mine a lot of the people around the white house and other agencies to never been had an experience and came to washington without any experience or aware of of course it wouldn't be an administrative and their idea was that they knew what was best for the merc mp know i feel very strongly about a lot of things i feel strongly about education i want to help young people have an education just as i have an education after world war two with the gi bill rice with that millions of young men and women in subsequent wars change the face of the nation because the guard might help other education other is the reason president can support this pretty obvious

he's not taking anything away from schools this new money is not legitimate minute videos except will downsize department of education this is a very local administration this administration gave you the big tax cut this administration tried to take over health care impose a governmental system this administration for regulatory reform has put out a small businessman and it's more than these women out of business this administration thought the balanced budget amendment and vetoed a balanced budget and vetoed welfare reform twice the list goes on and on and all that's what i had in mind i want people in my administration we'll have people in my administration to understand america there will be ten millionaires and fourteen lawyers in the cab of the people with experience and people understand america and people made it and all the hard knocks and why would send only that remark about although only this young lady's ministration them were young men who work from the house trailer with me and

said must present i know you grew up who is he talking about and you know this little shards that's what their party always drags out and the good and tight race so the golden oldie you know it's a record they think they can play to my last year and i just don't think that all of this to the american people should make up their own mind here's the record we cut the deaths of four years in a row for the first time since before the civil war it before or tune it before the civil war to prevent have needed just got record numbers of those new small businesses would lead everyone of them eligible for a tax cut we got declining crime rates two million fewer people on welfare rolls before welfare reform passed and a fifty percent increase in child support and a crime bill with sixty that there was a hundred thousand police the assault weapons ban the american people were more conservative you put whatever label you want

on every level of what that label on a new technology that the oil the program to that ticket mr president doesn't have a republican congress or the person needed a game in office percent of the stimulus package really a little forty horsepower on america's sixteen billion dollars and he doesn't own party an audience are new recruits pretty well i thought the president of the day that we say that taxpayers sixteen billion dollars in and games and other programs and game after a month in the tax increase a lot of these things are stop in nineteen ninety four because of the congress we've done a good job overall describe your political cloth i believe that the partisan politics is to give people the tools to make the most of their lives to reinforce the values of opportunity and responsibility and to build a sense of

community so we're all working together i don't believe in discrimination i believe you can protect the environment and growing economy i believe that we have to do these things with a government that smaller less bureaucratic but that we have to do them nonetheless it's inconvenient for senegal but the truth is i've read this as a government more than a republican predecessors and i didn't stop them i admit that i sure stop their budget their budget cut enforcement for the environmental protection agency by third it cut funds to clean up toxic waste dumps with ten million americans still living than four miles of toxic waste dump by thursday it ended the principle that the polluters should pay for those toxic waste dumps unless it was very recent their budget weakened arab support for education thirty billion dollars in cuts was for scholarships and college loans their budget cut two and seventy billion dollars in medicare and finally their budget was growing the master guarantee of health care for children families with two

handicaps the elderly and nursing homes for pregnant women it was wrong for the country and calling a conservative or my kid right it was a bad decision for america and would have been bad for a future defined start well present in defining so and anyway what i think we have to look at the record back to the time he was what texas director for george mcgovern george mcgovern's a friend of mine so i don't mean but he was i just finished reading a book with its allies in the democratic party card offers something talk about all the liberal impulses in the administration with its organized labor or whether it's a hollywood really were some immediately or whether it's the labor unions water and so i think we take a look at but the bottom line is this i think the american people thought it was i'd always built always think i wanna know what's going to happen to them they want a lot

of anxieties up there that anybody complain when you raise tax and they weren't nasty people either pay the extra money that one won an economic package we want the government against their pennies for a change so that people venting their pennies that's our message is to people watching and all this back and forth you know this wave of that when we won about america's big when an eccentric why is the balanced budget and protect medicare medicaid education in the arm to get a target a tax cut let me talk about the education tax to let people have a ten thousand dollars deduction for the cost of college tuition and he knew any chemical solution to give families a tax credit a dollar for dollar reduction in taxes for the cost of a typical community college so we can open that everybody nonetheless people sign and ira and withdraw from it without attacks heavily for education home buying or medical expenses that's the right way to go in the twenty first century balance the budget and cut taxes not balloon with its five hundred and fifty billion or

packs b senator dole we talked mostly known differences between the two in labor policy issues and that's when the thing either also significant differences in them or personal area that are relevant to the selection let me say first on the president's promise for another tax cut and i've told people of the drama called you've got the faculty promise last time vote for him in ninety six and i'm in an election promise my opponent the people on economic reform read a hard time making ends meet your want them working for the garden the other band working for the family and this is important business is about getting the economy moving again this about american jobs and opportunities it's about the government as i said before changing its pennies for change instead of the board tax hair may raise your taxes really running around asking people were eager to get the extra money

i think the gardener or the person or princes are all the pressures or in life wait for us grow violent make health an issue in this campaign at least as a bit taller than i am i think their personal differences a minute i'm not i don't want to get into personal matters far as i'm concerned this is a campaign about issues but my vision for america and about his motivation for him are not about perfection i think is that the vision is a thing in the past and oh it was a song how i went on a delivery that with the president we're stuck with it because that's at your record to record arkansas' biggest tax increase in history because crime increase in its biggest drug increases the archives will just for the record when i was going to

have the lowest the second lowest tax burden on the state of the country the highest jobless rate in a statement the president and widely recognized for a lot of other advances but the important thing is what we gonna do now i think they've targeted tax cut is better for our future targeted education charter with the rest of the education plan hooking up all of our classrooms to the internet the year two thousand is making sure that an army rating volunteers train people to teach with parents and teachers so that are a girls can learn really investing in our environment cleaning up two thirds of the worst toxic waste dumps those plans are better than this five hundred and fifty billion dollar tax remember folks event centered goals campaign co chair senator d'amato says he's got a cut medicare pay for this everybody's within five hundred pounds seven nobel prize winner says that for the calm reasonable whole lives raise taxes on nine million people and work for bigger cuts than the one of the two our plan is better it'll take us to the future

with a growing economy and helping families wanted her italian renewed friendship without a model and i don't have tax cuts in your budget no surprise the first three years you're present what nevada republican congress even thought about we talked about tax cuts and came back the first thing they're going to that unemployment a little more specific but i think the president could clarify one thing a night that's a question forums and i talked about it on the jim jim lehrer pbs show and i never discussed what waters i thought the person not discussing like watermelon and discussing apart the president has to grant pardons and hopefully in the next segment you can lay that there is well first of all you know we made a remark about cinema oh he's aligned for me to spend a lot more time listening to marlo last couple years and so i'm

more familiar with his comments and i used to be i have one they say we're sorry about this partnership this is an issue they brought up that determines there is no consideration of a discussion of a play this i will not give anyone special treatment and i will strictly adhere to all and that is what every president has done is ford i know in the past but what every other presidents have done this is something i take seriously and that's my position but it's a mere presence of madame a comment or that there were some lonely that be the business dealings me may be sending a signal i don't i'm not questioning anybody who's a presenter and eight states and somebody else about pardon to say no comment and i think he made a mistake and i think when you make a mistake the seminal mistake but for his position hasn't changed though it's a rather specific years but beyond that out i haven't gotten any these things as a president knows we've had that

discussion and i again i know so tomorrow i think they had a hearing her two white water i can remember but he's not my gentle germany's a friend of mine and so senator kennedy if i'm yours and you remember one day on the floor so the government recapture memories and kennedy jumped up so glad we thought of that before ms bishop no it's been what's the subject matter summer don't think single out one thing that you would like for the voters to have in their mind about president clinton on a policy matter or purse or what would it be something they

know about him understand him a pretty divisive anything it's gonna be misconstrued i don't like to seem a race between it is about our vision for american idol i present when first addressing all the ministry president said ninety nine it didn't extend their first president bush but i respect the presidency i've served under number presents the all weather strikes in all of their weaknesses so i'm going to talk about my strengths i think that my strengths i think the best thing going for bottles of although the key word it's a question of when trust and fear i would say i think you must present but only battling his campaign is fear they're spending millions and millions of dollars and maybe that's frightening senior citizens and others to the fact that one town the last week senator don't get my medicare i'm gonna save your medicare does his eyes

tested so security with a bipartisan commission i have relatives on medicare are used to sign welfare checks my grandparents and all about poverty and all about the non about taking care of people and that's been my career in united states senate and i'll keep my word on economic package if i couldn't cut taxes and balanced but at the same time i would look you in the eye tonight in your living room review may be and say that this is good for american people that you serve a bottle or you disagree he kept his word that's what this race is all about i'd like the american people to know that i worked very hard to be on their side and move this country forward and work better often were four years ago with the most important thing is my plan for the twenty first century is a better plan targeted tax

cut a real commitment to education reform a deep commitment to making welfare reform work with incentives for the private sector to move people from welfare work that we have to create those jobs don't require people to go to work a commitment to continuing step by step health care reform with the next of helping people who are between jobs to access healthcare not lose it just because they're out of work for a while a commitment to grow the economy while protecting the environment that's what i'd like to know about me that i've gotten up every day and work for the american people and work so that their children can have their dreams come true anomaly we got the results shown on the right track most importantly a lovely we've got the right ideas for the future and like senate though are like civilian population to live with to see the world in different ways and you folks that they're going to have to choose you think is wrong and i'd say the first almost done in the senate was a

boulder built on the bird although again member who's control them i'm a working the center of the gulf and connecticut on the hospice program now twenty five hundred hospices as i said i'm never i've worked all my life while i was in the congress i left on june eleven some american people know as i was willing to give up something president ran for governor ninety nine cities have felonies german you didn't his presence or his interview by one american view and i was willing to give up some of what he's getting more power more power so i rolled the dice i put my career on the line and i really believe the future of america's on the line we can give you all these numbers and only thing if you're out of work yet nothing we get medical care is the polling a crack baby in your arms right now what would you do next you know markers best days are analysts i've seen the tough times i know they can be better and only american a brighter future when you

say two syllables point that at the selection is about keeping one's war let's look at the when i ran for president i say without that the us and haven't for years we carried by sixty percent i said was that our economic plan would produce eight million jobs we have to have a million new jobs were number one in all those again record numbers of new small businesses i said we could pass a crime bill we put a hundred thousand police on the streets ban assault weapons and deal with the problems that ought to be dealt with with capital punishment including capital punishment for drug kingpins and we did it i said we would say so why welfare works and even before the bill passed we've moved nearly two million people from welfare to work working with states and communities i say we get tougher on child support and child support enforcement so fifty percent i say that i worked for tax relief for middle class americans but that's it was bigger than i thought it was going to be in i think

they're better off all of us are and we got those interest rates down the deficit than republicans talk about it but we are the first administration and any byes lifetime whether this program to bring that message than four years in a row we still get tax cuts to fifteen million working americans and now i've got a plan that's been out there for two years it could've been asked already but instead the republicans shut the government down the transport their budget and they're planning and i couldn't take that will get the rest of that actually and so i think when you can look at those results you know the plan of going up in the future has a very good chance of being an actor if you give me a chance to do a lot of research one's been used before to exaggerate all the things that he did heated new orleans saints let's take all the support that you know years in a row he came in with a high growth rate the nineteen ninety budget agreement that some northern whites

had some very tough cost controls but a lot of pressure on congress the us in our prices low they're starting to sell assets all that money was coming in an eco defense an extra sixty billion dollars for a lot of people out or you thought about a smaller garment actually more people in garden except for people in defense related jobs their long ago ms miller was when president kennedy was around minnesota's not in addition a republican congress cut fifty three billion dollars so let's just you know let's give credit where credit is due covering of michigan cut taxes twenty one times rely on a job so the government arkansas governor although a lot of people out of deserve credit <unk> present when i'm president as these were have a governor's council and we're going to go work directly with the governor's republican to democrat that are packed with people like the states i think a lot of people deserve credit not trying to give it to them when i believe that my plan is a veteran center bills you advise five hundred and fifty billion dollars fee which us a

gamble home with us our plan will bounce a budget control the economy preserve the environment and invest in education we have the right approach for the future and look at the results it is not midnight in america so that we are better off than we were four years ago five that say a last question the last dancer was going out of the closing statements every two minutes well first young let me thank you and thank you so thank you as joan will be listening tonight the chechen given us to appear i was say in the beginning that i am profoundly grateful for the chance that you've given me to serve as president for the last four years i'm never going to bring anything like this would come my way in life and i've done my best to be faithful to the charges given me i'm proud of the fact that america is stronger and more prosperous

and more secure than we were four years ago and glad we're going in the right direction and i've done the best ally to lay out my plans for going forward to an even better future in an eccentric i'd like to leave you would have thought that the things i do as president are basically driven by the people whose lives i have seen affected by what does it doesn't happen in this country the auto worker in toledo who was unemployed when i was elected now has a great job as we're number one in our production again all the people i've never used to be on welfare who are now working in raising their children and i think what others could do for our country and for themselves if we get the welfare reform things in the proper way i think of the man who grabbed him on the shoulder once with tears in his eyes and said his daughter was dying of cancer and eats it for giving him a chance to spend some time with or without losing his job because of a family medical leave act effect of all people grew up with the witches do with the messiah touch with never let me forget

how what we do in washington effects all of you out there in america folks we can build that this is twenty first century they don't often stronger for almost walk across and i'll hold you for several years i began banking with president thanked everyone for watching and listening all addressed my remarks to young people the market you guys are the ones are those memos their life in the twenty first century they're the ones where the challenges there are people out there making predictions it's not gonna be the same unit that i have the opportunities to mean more deaths it's more drugs more crime unless governance in the american people and that's what you're faced with the parents are faced with the grandparents are faced with it's important and i would say to those and other more young

people experimenting with drugs and a never before drug use has gone up you care about the future of america they care about your future just don't do it and i don't i'm someone older than you but at my anxious moments of my life i've learned to feed myself and walk and dress i'm standing is proof within america that i know who i am and i don't think america we are the greatest country on the face of the earth we do more good things for more people in our communities our neighborhoods in a work that i know this is important business the selection is important i ask your support

i ask your help and you alone again all this step into my home page of either the deputy got old and ninety six orgy thank you god bless america it's been the problem with the police beat is

facetious for the first presidential debate of nineteen ninety six is over and we begin our look at it with some political analysis from shields and she go that's syndicated columnist mark shields and wall street journal columnist paul she go paul

what are your general impressions well i was struck by this the extent to which showed both men play to their strengths and to tie but i thought the president proved he's the better talker it stuck to the script it was so it was almost freeing sections big chunks of acceptance speech repeating his record time again time and again trying to remain presidential i think bob dole his best when he has best emphasis in the early in the evening was he proved his words in some of his wit he proved a sense of humor to prove that he he's usually very funny man and he has a project to do that tonight i'm going to do it on the enormity of the best one we say falling off the stage at chico leo and tyler was on the cell phone to me i thought that was the best one of the leading frankly it proved its worth i think as an issue and this is there's been a sense a lot of people have ideas and they were connected always you would be avoided that mark what about putting your general impressions well i think the president had to defend his record it's

at religion as a referendum on the incumbent as i did that i thought bubble add to protest today he had big demonstrate a sense of humor and a sense of passion i thought you'd get a pause actually write about that and his old line about ted kennedy and recapture memories of their senate colleagues into getting jumped up and said she wanted to get that i thought that was good but i thought i thought there was it was a debacle that has been under wraps in this campaign but the second part was he had he had deliver the punch to bill clinton he had a buckle his knees he had knocked him down he did i had that bill clinton not been a debate society nato i guzzle rusty qaeda did believe so but i think the goal would after without being me a couple of times to get close to the edge of the matter of drugs in your family and i never talk about drugs your own background sort of thing i bet that that would that wasn't it was bob dole's nineteen seventy six in walter mondale in democrat wars and five thousand americans die and i thought that bill clinton joe he could take a punch

bob dole did not rattle and today he continued that bob goldin a breakthrough night he did a good job of selling themself he did not do an effective job of my judgment of making the case against bill clinton away with this way millions of others no knockout punch politician well i think that there were a couple of standing eight counts critically on taxes i thought he drove that message home with the fact that what he was trying to do was not just make the case for his own our tax code but also to say you can trust who you can trust the president to try to contrast the record but he did it on taxes he didn't i thought he did on the pardons issue isn't what you saw with the president to bob dole's trade was pinned down and say will you please make a pledge that you will not party people on the president flatly refused and he said i want to make any commitment was essentially set up i don't know the bubble that as much as he should have because he could he could have a few other issues a partial birth abortions for example to the big appeal and kept the capital that you need to bring up welfare which i thought was a big surprise to the

fact that the president signed the bill that has now been pledging his career would change it in the next four years could have done more as mark said on that point it said friday thought that couple would have to be the underdog but not the loser in this the do you think it's not at what came out of it more appealing figure certainly won him a while to figure out why likable figures but what was fascinating the key to this whole debate it was which years it would be ipod or one of the four hole for this to be a nineteen eighty three nineteen eighty four we talk about surgeon general that destroys lynn elders is long gone from one in somalia the stimulus package the health of the clinton health care package would be to you was all night in a three day four and bill clinton want to talk about it in a six and nineteen eighty seven and beyond i put in one a talk and again about the the case again i thought against the excesses the republican congress the bridge to the future dole gingrich i didn't like how he had saved the country from from this terrible rap than a rust so

i thought in that sense it was intriguing dole why they don't want it to be a three day for didn't want it five basics discussed much included obviously that would cut which will begin a three day for that affectively focused on the early sixties and they stay with this will be back to you that now will put tonight's debate into some historical context charlayne hunter gault has that joining us now our foreign news our regulars presidential historians doris kearns goodwin and michael beschloss journalist and author haynes johnson and william kristol editor and publisher of the weekly standard thank you all for joining us starting with v william kristol how will this debate go down in history i don't think that over six nineteen eighty six when the date that will build and having history particularly kids will be asking is what were doing the night to bob dole bill clinton i debate if i thought they each defined it wasn't a debate that they were embarrassed to be an american or embarrassed of your republican than the gaza border or democrat clinton supporter but nothing really memorable i don't think

i agree with that this was a debate he was a great debate but you did get a sense of who they were and i think what you saw was the authentic bob dole for instance with all the people who watch them in the congress over the years he screeched to the edge the last remaining quality about him his remarks about the president on drugs into an elite industry speak next to president us must say that to you even though even before the courtesies at twice but this was dole a warmer person is not really one of those moments when a playback and one single thing like nixon kennedy or any of the others it was a useful tv in terms of defining differences between them and singer well it's interesting i think it was a classic debate and for that very reason it may not live in something authentic well i think they both shows turn our ability there were no gaps as their one that's what we remember remember gaps like eastern europe when ford said it wasn't under soviet domination or when carter suddenly mentioned leukemia nuclear

weapons nobody did that night there was no real mean spirited assault in the same way they told it in seventy six when he blamed the democrats for the wars they recently a sign says haines as and the interesting thing is that what would make the whole debate memorable is the only thing that we don't know for sure tonight it would depend how the american people responded and it's going to take a couple days for that after the seventy six debate for putting did really well until eastern european thing popped back into his mike kennedy knew immediately in nineteen sixty that he had won that debate hands down and the difference was it was the first debate so nobody had ever been exposed that way on television they don't have that chance now that's not close election so it's hard to imagine this debate will make such a difference for the very good reasons why it was glassy maybe why it might not be memorable and that's ok most of that i think was pretty grim you know near the end of this debate president clinton said to the audience all around america you can probably tell that we like each other i certainly would have been able to tell that just from seeing this today and i think this is one of the grammar of debates in american

history in the history of presidential politics in terms of the relationship between the two principals came across on this crew ain't nothing i thought was fascinating is you know if you go back to nineteen sixty kennedy versus nixon they basically responded to questions in terms of telling about their positions on issues this whole thing has become so much a part of this point that you can listen to the interior monologue nineteen eighty jimmy carter kept on trying to convey that ronald reagan was risky mondale in eighty four that reagan did not know the kind of things a president must know and obviously bob dole came apart this evening to again and again turned every answer or nearly every answer into an opportunity to convey the idea that bill clinton is a liberal that perhaps he can be trusted and is hamstrung by several special interests very much on the offensive whereas bill clinton became very much the sense of someone who was sitting on his lead with much of the rhetoric we've heard in the chicago convention rigid the twenty four centuries on two candidates with very different

purpose clinton was much more able to be good about being on the defensive and like bush and in the last debate where he was really on the defensive hillary clinton had a good record to go on so he didn't have to take responsibility for some it could take responsibility for the rise in drug used to feel like he was really under assault there's a certain generosity about his being able to defend his record that you can have when you yourself in your record is under assault as bush was racially and i think that the key point is that was not under assault on the one issue that we wondered whether deal with assault which the characters and i was the dog that did not far as the little barely raised in the first seventy five years except really indirectly finally jim asked what about personalities that affair for small differences that very issue and senator dole make a joke about blood pressure cholesterol and then remember to raise the partnership which is a dictator of indirect way clinton disposed of quickly jilted not come back to it it may be admirable senegal not

of the half to clinton and character but the question was was it there is that issue explicitly wasn't really tried to say that bill clinton is unfit to be president somehow he didn't say that and a time when the economy is good because he's a piece if enough to scare people by clinton's second term which he didn't do and other challenges characters fitness it's hard to know how i see how you become that and there's one other thing that i thought was fascinating when you watch them they were going back and forth on the edge of prince will not threaten the bowl but also when you watched all he was far more responsive to government itself i helped her it's a social security i am for medicare i have supported these programs down the line so the last one is exactly right if you try to distinguish between this really didn't draw the line that sharply differing is the clinic you mentioned though and the meanness this essay came out of those seventy six campaign the

democrat wars what about clinton how was he different tonight from say ninety ninety two sectors tension between being on the offensive as it was in nineteen ninety two able to attack bush and trying to defend his record this year one of the arguments that john kennedy made for instance in nineteen sixty was he thought it was very easy for him to win particular that first debate in chicago because he always said it is much easier to attack an incumbent is running this case the incumbent vice president richard nixon and i think you saw bill clinton probably doing very well both in ninety two and ninety six in both of those differences that in ninety two when clinton was asked about his patriotism because of his anti war protests he really responded very vigorously in and talk to bush about your father defended people's patriotism against mccarthy this timing right the debate about drug use bridget haines how important was this i mean especially since history shows that debates have

not changed people's minds clinton went in with a very strong lead but i think i agree with what the dollar so we've also taken away a that they didn't probably make the difference in the election at this point is one work on your pre judge these things but i think it marks a phrase about opting these a knockout punch if that's what it took to do that is to thank you now some partisan reaction and tomorrow warner thanks elizabeth watching the debate with us this evening have been two members of the us senator kay bailey hutchison a republican from texas and barbara boxer a democrat from california welcome both of you senator hutchison do you think this debate has the ability or will change the momentum of this race the dynamic of this race i think the american people have been really slow to focus on this race i think slower than i can remember in a long long time but i think bait because of that they hadn't really gotten to know bob dole and also because he didn't have the money to advertise until after the republican convention

i think they saw bob dole tonight and i thought he was terrific i think he was relaxed he was funny which so many people who know him know that he is that he also spoke right to the american people he was connecting with the average american well president clinton was clearly trying to say everything is great he was saying i am concerned and i think the american people are concerned about some of these issues sen boxer i'm sure is quite differently yes i have to say that the people to get to know bob dole better tonight and that's good i also think the issues that people care about really came out tonight are the main issues that i think we really focused on in this debate education we know that bob dole wants to do away with the department education we know that the budget that he supported would have cut it dramatically medicare we know they'll need to be even deeper cuts in medicare and his tax plan does move forward the

environment big differences and so i think the people to get to know about girls' policies better and of course it's someone is you know plans to believe that the policies of the president of the best of the two i think president clinton did very well by focusing on the record focusing on the future as opposed to the past and i think staying quite presidential and he showed great leadership i thought tonight senator hutchison who do you think that the better of this policy debate they really had all evening about the role of government yes i think they did and i think that senator joe made it very clear he trust the people and it's the president clinton to us government and i think you do those differences you know i'm being for doing away with the department of education doesn't mean you're against education it means that you believed that education is best done at the local level without federal bureaucrats in washington having their hand and on the local

education system's i think senator dole said very clearly he wants people to keep more of the money they work so hard to earn trust the american people to let loose and have similar effects in a box and that's about something bill kristol just said in the streets to the character issue he said he thought it was the dog that didn't bark tonight do you think senator dole was effective at all in raising doubts about bill clinton's character but i think that senator dole was trying to show the american people who he is and i think it came off very well i think he connected with the average american he said i really know what it's like to have hard times i want to be there for people who are having hard times and i want america to have the opportunities that we have had what we've grown up i want small business to grow and prosper and i think he drew those differences very well senator boxer well let me say as a senator dole said when he got the nomination but he was

the most optimistic man in america and i have to tell you that it's not really come across i mean he had one line where he said something like i'll and i'm quoting him there's a lot wrong with america and i think what people love about this president and admire about this president president clinton is a sense of optimism and the sense of looking at the future and making the future our friend and i think all that really came out and the president did what he needed to do tonight i think senator joe tried to get under his skin and in many many ways of that followed him out and shirley and alice and the president just released data on the subject that he needed to stay on which is what is his record what is his vision he's laid out and the fact is the president is the one the president who has brought the size of government down his record on job creation ten million new jobs the lowest deficit that we've had in many years went down cut more than in half

seeded his promises on that and yes he did repeat that but i think it's important as senator dole kept attacking this president that the president just kept on showing what the facts were and i think that was important center so how what you think senator dole including his vision for the future i think sen dodd he said i want to speak to the young people i want to speak to people who may be worrying because forty percent of their paychecks are going to taxes and i think he did present what he wants to do for the future and i think he said that he was going to build a bridge for the more secure future for our children and grandchildren i think he was optimistic he was relaxed i thought that he really showed what he would do and he showed to hear let me ask you both one very quick question do you think what happened tonight will help bob dole closed this huge gap has with women voters interaction well i think that bob dole was speaking two conservative quentin when he talked about health care and what president clinton's health care system would have done

to really obliterate the system as we know it today he was speaking to women's concerns job security small business doing away with the overzealous regulation in this society and he was saying i want to help the women owned businesses which are the majority of small businesses citizens senator boxer quick rich or your gender gap will grow for president clinton women care so much about children and education and a matter what senator hutchison says for the greatest nation in the world not to have a department of education not to have one person looking out after our children's education i think it's a big mistake and they feel that way about medicare they're the ones who look after their parents when they get old and they don't trust frankly the republicans because especially the dough who bragged about voting against it i think the gender gap or world of it well thank you both very much and finally more thoughts from shields and she goes that's mark shields and partially go

after the vote or do you think that this debate helped the vote to be able to distinguish between the two they have a lot of information to choose from i think they have a clearer sense of the differences i think dole probably helped himself with undecided voters people who haven't made up their minds because he did prison himself as a an honorable alternative he was presidential he was well informed on the issues of foreign policy and other things he is somebody i think a lot of people are undecided or don't like the president can and wondered about balkan now say i can make that choice he's somebody i can live with he had a tougher job was to pry away some of those voters and i think that he was probably less successful at that because the president was pretty good except for a couple of issues and dodging and weaving one other point i think bob dole had clearly in his mind some of the presses otis history of the period to be mean i think he would leave you went overboard therefore not to go after the president a couple of the personal things where you really could've gotten rougher eye is this really low the rough sea

goddess a call in the great exaggerate or i sold and it is particularly so he was trying to be and i think that may have restrained him a bit from really take from really going after the president in a much tougher more harsh way it's not complicated not really well he did that and he attempted to the bottles are not extremist and bill clinton not a liberal image if you really want to know what went on and i guess you know i think what will have a tough task going into this race is going into the night in this contest and that was one gold is not have to inject him the attack dog running mate that so many vice presidents have been i mean a spiro agnew most recently of it's a fond memory but i mean you were worried that buys president goes after and slashes the opponent jack kemp is is the norman vincent peale of the vice president and it's an upbeat positive element good in the glasses full time so he had the dole had to carry that case and he had to do it in a way that didn't appear to

be what we'll find out what affect it was affective i don't think it ever was a sketch again but if that was i think that between the job at which i just thought that bill clinton quite frankly what was an unflappable tonight i mean and that's what was build model wanna see those flashes of temper that we saw it refute what he asked the question of ruth bader ginsburg's nomination and most recently white water and that wasn't that was because i thought the president showed enormous poise in and restraint underwrote some pretty negative the question is well maybe that's the answer to this question but let me ask you what your story is what will the most memorable about this today if they break a picture at the end of the picture the end was a wonderful picture i mean it becomes a high as a testimonial to our political process initiative they were shaking hands the two families i did not appear for spite i thought it was natural and in a strange way it probably works to bill clinton's advantage because there is a sense of good feeling in it does that then it occurred i don't think there

really was a great overwhelming memorable moment of the circus today it's probably better for the president because he's run out the clock at the end and bob dole really wanted was to come out with a sound bite your poems not counted by the kinds of something we didn't do thank you both very much and that's it for this special edition of the newshour on october sixteenth will bring you the second and last presidential debate this wednesday the night the vice presidential face off and we'll see you on line and here again tomorrow evening with more reaction to this first presidential debate i'm elizabeth farnsworth thank you and goodnight funding for this program isn't provided by the corporation for public broadcasting and viewers like you it's been sixteen

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