The MacNeil/Lehrer Report; Vietnamese Family Revisited

ROBERT MacNEIL: Good evening. It`s a year and a half since the fall of Saigon and since Vietnamese refugees by the thousands began pouring into this country. In that time relations between this country and the new, unified Vietnam have remained more or less frozen, although there are signs that a thaw may be in the offing. In the meantime 150,000 Vietnamese who fled the communists are living in the United States and are about to mark their second Thanksgiving here. They cut across all social groups; some are prospering, others just surviving. Last Saturday about 100 of the refugees in New York attended a dance to celebrate the second Thanksgiving; it was held at St. Nicholas Tolentine Roman Catholic Church in Flushing, Queens.

(Vietnamese children singing.)

MacNEIL: This is Nguyen Van Thien and his wife, Le-Thi Thu Cuc. He is a leader in the cultural activities of the Vietnamese community in Queens. The dance was organized by a Vietnamese priest for Vietnamese teenagers, some of whom came with their parents. The band, recently put together by the teenagers, played Vietnamese music while the crowd did the waltz, the cha-cha-cha and the bossanova.

We first met Thien and his wife a year ago on Thanksgiving, when memories of the fall of Saigon and their escape from Vietnam were still vivid in their minds. We wanted to see how life in America had affected them a year later. Thien`s parents refused to leave Vietnam during the evacuation; they said they were too old to make the journey. The other eight members of the family and a new baby now live in a two-bedroom apartment in Flushing, Queens, New York. In Vietnam the family had cars and farmland; now they must contend with mass transit, supermarkets and food stamps. The day after the fall of the South all Vietnamese military officers were ordered to surrender to the North Vietnamese, but Nguyen Van Thien refused. He set sail for the Philippines with 1500 refugees in three ships. After 25 days in the Philippines Thien and his family went to Guam for 21 days before coming to the United States. Mr. Thien and his wife are with us tonight to discuss their experiences and those of their family in coming to this country. The Thien family spent only three days outside Camp Pendleton in California before flying to the Massapequa, New York, home of their sponsor, John Wetterer. Mr. Wetterer is a 27-year-old Vietnam veteran who has sponsored five other Vietnam refugee families. He also has three adopted Vietnamese children of his own who are cared for by a housekeeper while Mr. Wetterer is at his job as a personnel officer for the Chase Manhattan Bank. Well, that was a year ago; now the Thiens are on their own. Mr. Wetterer, their sponsor, has gone to Guatemala to set up an orphanage for homeless street children. Mr. Thien, you`re back with us a year later; how is your life different from last year?

NGUYEN VAN THIEN:I think we are more confident, because we feel more secure; the children have a good education in the States and myself and my wife get jobs and we go to work together. Financially we are set for a new life here in the States, and with the future our children have and the money we receive every month we can afford to settle our life in the States -- but only one year here, so we still have a long way to go.

MacNEIL: You`re proud of what you`ve accomplished, though, in that year, are you?

THIEN: Yes. The main thing is, I get the job and I work for a very good company -- big company-compared with the other companies -- and I like my job. Not exactly what was my background, but it is involving shipping. I was in the Navy and I was a Naval carrier officer, but now I work in shipping, which is no more at sea, but to still operate ships, you know.

MacNEIL: Let`s get you to tell us more about your job. It`s an hour and a half by bus and two subway trains from Mr. Thien`s home. He`s been working for the Bungi Corporation, an international grain exporting company on Wall Street, for over a year now. How have things actually changed in your work itself?

THIEN: Before I have under my command many people; and now I am back in the office and not in command any more, but do easy paperwork and so doing business in this job.

MacNEIL: What sort of work do you actually do?

THIEN: I especially work on the dispatch for the company to make a few more dollars.

MacNEIL: You work in the dispatch department.

THIEN: No, I`m in the chartering department.

MacNEIL: Oh, the chartering of ships to carry things in...

THIEN: Yes, and I have my supervisor to operate the ships, and my main job is doing the dispatch and calculation.

MacNEIL: I see. Do you feel, working therein Wall Street, in the atmosphere of all that money -- they very symbol of American money, and so on -- do you feel that you`re going to be able to get ahead and become a successful man in America?

THIEN: Yes, I hope so, because it is a very good job, and we have good advance and good opportunity to advance in the job. And to improve my job and my knowledge in the job I attend now a course at the Maritime College every Thursday evening from 6:30 to 7:30 and on five Saturdays from September to December, and it is very interesting course, and also very difficult because you have a lot of reading assignments to do and also a lot of study, and I don`t have enough time, you know...

MacNEIL: To do as much study as you`d like to do?

THIEN: Yes.

MacNEIL: What continues to be your most serious problem?

THIEN: You know that I have a very big family and very heavy charge and the future of my family -- I have to look out for the future of my children. And they still are in the high school now, and I want them to complete their high school and after that they will go for a while to college, more study, or same time they go to school they can go to work.

MacNEIL: Of course, millions of Americans, people born in this country, with large families would say they have the same problems and the same aspirations; what are your main problems arising from the fact that you`re Vietnamese? What are the chief problems?

THIEN: Yes; I think that we come here as an ethnic minority and it`s very difficult for our people to break the -- what you say, the language barrier?

MacNEIL: Um-hum.

THIEN: ...and to find a job.

MacNEIL: Are there still a lot unemployed, or having trouble finding work?

THIEN: Yes, but not many, like last year, because with the help of the international center and also of the other American and Vietnamese organizations we find jobs for the people. And so we organize English class for the less educated, you know.

MacNEIL: There was a certain amount of hostility in this country when you refugees first came; in some areas of the country Americans just weren`t interested, or actually disliked the Vietnamese, have you encountered any of that, any active anti-Vietnamese feeling?

THIEN: So far I did not encounter anything like you say. Maybe we are lucky; we live with good friends, good neighborhood, we work with very good people and we meet very good people so far.

MacNEIL: You haven`t encountered that.

THIEN: I haven`t, yes.

MacNEIL: Last year you and your wife expressed concern about the changes you were beginning to see in your children as they became more Americanized. Before we talk about whether you still have the same worries, let`s hear exactly what you told us last year about that.

(1975.)

THIEN: Back in Vietnam they are very quiet at home; you know, they sit. But now, like my little boy, That he`s always trying to dance a-go-go when he`s happy. Their behavior is changing a little bit, and I think that maybe next or quite a lot of time they will get more involved in the American society and they will be Americans.

MacNEIL: Does that please you, or are you a little bit worried about things they are going to lose?

THIEN: Well, you know that we arrived here to readjust our life in the States, and we have to be Americanized sooner or later. And I have my children to go to school and we like to be citizens of the United States; but I would like to have my children follow some Vietnamese traditions, because we are oriental, we are Vietnamese...

MacNEIL: You`d like them to follow some Vietnamese traditions. Which ones would you like them to keep up?

THIEN: Like, you know, they have to pay tribute to the ancestors, because if you remember, the Vietnamese people, we have always paid tribute to our ancestors. In every home we have the ancestor-author, and every anniversary...

MacNEIL: You`re Catholics, are you?

THIEN: I am Catholic, but you know...

MacNEIL: But even so, you do this.

THIEN: Yeah. It`s traditional, you know, in Vietnam that we pay tribute to our ancestors.

MacNEIL: So you`d like them to learn to do that.

THIEN: Yes. And we have a certain authority, from the parents to the children, and we`d like to keep this authority going on in one way, from the parents to the children.

MacNEIL: I wish you luck in that.

THIEN: (Laughing.) Yeah. We are not dictators in our family, but we like to, when we say something -we tell them to do some things, they have to do that; they don`t have to come back and say, "No, I don`t want to.

MacNEIL: A year later, Mr. Thien, what effect do you see America having on your children now?

THIEN: More or less, they are a little Americanized, you know.

MacNEIL: How? How do you notice that?

THIEN: Like my eldest daughter -- she acts now very freely, very easily way to react. But I feel our relationship now is becoming better than before; before, I realize, I was too strict with them.

MacNEIL: You`re changing.

THIEN: Yes.

MacNEIL: You`re becoming less an authority figure, are you -less authoritative?

THIEN: Less authority. But maybe because, I think, it is the way we live in the States and the way the education system here; and so the relations between friends in school and also at work, you know, it affects our life a little bit. But I still maintain my idea of before, like I would like to keep some very good traditions, like the respect of the children towards the parents...

MacNEIL: Do you sense that going a little bit, the respect?

THIEN: I think I still have the control of my children, but like I said before, they feel more easy in their way to react to...

MacNEIL: To you.

THIEN: Yes, to me, and my wife. I think our relationship now is becoming better; we become more friendly with them, not like before.

MaCNEIL: That`s interesting. Let`s take a closer look at one of your children, the one you mentioned -- your oldest daughter, Thuy, who is in junior high school. She is still taking a special English class as well as her regular courses, which include singing, in English. Let`s have a look at her in school.

TEACHER: Remember I told you the story of the naming of the piano? It has two parts to the name because it was the first instrument that could play both softly and loudly.

STUDENT: Forte?

TEACHER: Very good; forte. All right, would you all turn to page 156; and there are three verses to this song. There is a marking in each verse which tells us how loud or how soft to perform each verse. How do we perform the first verse? Thuy?

NGUYEN THANH THUY: Soft?

TEACHER: Softly. Very good. And the second verse? Yes?

STUDENT: A little louder?

TEACHER: A little bit louder. How would we mark that? Thuy?

THUY: mp?

TEACHER: Very good..."m--"?

THUY: "mf".

TEACHER: Very good, "mf". And finally, how would we indicate the loudest verse, the last verse? Helen?

HELEN: "f".

TEACHER: Very good.(Playing piano.) Let`s try it from the beginning.

ALL: (Singing "Joshua Fit the Battle of Jericho".)

MacNEIL: So, how do you see her changing in this year -- Thuy?

THIEN: She`s doing well in school now, because before she didn`t speak any -- I don`t mean any words -- but she was very slow to reply, to answer to her teacher, but this year she`s becoming very diligent in school. I think she`s very smart, also.

MacNEIL: What are her problems?

THIEN: Her problems -- I told her all the time -- she has to think before she expresses something to me or to the teacher, because she wants to answer very fast and sometimes she makes mistakes -- you know, she didn`t realize it, so I keep her slowed down a little bit and I explain to her, "Just think before you do something or you tell something."

MacNEIL: Teenagers tend to become adults very quickly in this country; do you see that in her -- are you happy about the way she is developing as a teenager in this country?

THIEN: Yes and no. Yes, because after we lived here in the States I want them to go outside and see the life in the States and to involve in the American community; but a certain feeling that maybe sometime in the future she will get out of control and she did not act like we want her to do back in Vietnam, because in Vietnam the woman and the girl are very shy and they`re very quiet. But I think it is better for them to know the life and they will live better than at home and they will be more civilized. It is good, I think, for them for the future if they stay in the States and they go out and look for jobs and contribute to the American society.

MacNEIL: Last year your wife, Cuc, had just had a baby girl and was anxious to get back to work as soon as possible. In Saigon she worked for six years for the Chase Manhattan Bank in the financial department; now she has a job with the same organization at their head office on Wall Street as a messenger, I believe.

LE-THI THU CUC: Both of us if we work it`s easy for us to live. It`s very hard to live in the States if one of us works. We are a big family; we need money. I would like to be a secretary as I did in Saigon -- it`s more interesting job that I had over there. I took care of the quarterly report and the bad checks, too. I have to learn certain skills -- for example, if I would like to be secretary I have to learn how to type; of course, I type, but not very good. Right now my English is not good, so I have to learn more. I would like to have a house, as my American friends, so we have more room in the house, so it`s more comfortable for us. Thank God that we can get out of the country`s old set and we can settle our lives here.

MacNEIL: Do you notice her becoming more like American women?

THIEN: By the way of dressing herself she`s becoming Americanized a little bit. But she still is a Vietnamese woman, mostly an oriental woman; she`s still very shy, you know, very quiet. When we meet friends she just tries to help friends in the kitchen, or to prepare the table; it is the way the woman in Vietnam does all the time. Maybe I like it continuing, not the same way as in the States, because I went to many parties and I saw the wife sitting in the sofa while the husband carries the...

MacNEIL: Not too much women`s lib.

THIEN: (Laughing.) Yeah.

MacNEIL: I see. Thien and his wife and their seven children live in a two- bedroom apartment. They both have hopes one day of owning a house with enough room for their family, like the one they had in Saigon. But the latest news they`ve had from Saigon indicates they may be much better off than the parents they left behind. What have you heard from your parents, and how recently?

THIEN: The latest letter I received from them was written by my father on October 16, and they say they still are in very good health; but with the letter they sent to us they enclosed their picture, recently taken in Vietnam, and I can compare between the pictures that we made the year before we left the country and the pictures that we received today. I think they`ve become thinner, you know?

MacNEIL: They look thinner.

THIEN: Yes.

MacNEIL: That`s a picture of your ship; is it the one you commanded in the Vietnamese Navy?

THIEN: No, it is my latest command in the Navy -- I was a commander -- my latest command in the Navy was for customs zone command. But it is a very good souvenir, because the. man who painted this ship for me is one of my sailors, and he made te trip with me and he painted this for me as a souvenir and as a memory of our patrol base at sea.

MacNEIL: You had, one might say, everything in Saigon -- position, a very nice house, obviously a very good income and everything -- and now you were reduced to almost nothing; you`ve had to build it up again, or start to build it up again -- are you confident again, or how does that leave you?

THIEN: Yes, I`m more confident to myself now. Since I got the job in this company, I can tell that this is a good job and we have as bright -- not so bright, but compared with what we had when we arrived here -- it`s a bright future for myself and my children.

MacNEIL: Basically, do you have any regrets that you made the decision to leave?

THIEN: Not at all; not at all. I still think that I made the right decision to leave the country, because I don`t want to live under the communist rule; and as you know, there is no more freedom, and the way they rule the country now, in Vietnam is not good for the people. They put the people back in slavery -- not physically...

MacNEIL: What evidence do you have of that?

THIEN: I hear many news from my friends living in the States, and they receive news from their relatives, their parents, and also in the newspaper -- Vietnamese newspaper we issue in the States - and also between the lines my father wrote to me in his letter I can see that.

MacNEIL: You can read between the lines.

THIEN: Yeah.

MacNEIL: Do you feel that if the opportunities present themselves that the United States should establish normal relations with the new regime in Hanoi? Do you think we should have an embassy there, and trade with them, and all that?

THIEN: Yes; I think it is the best way to save the southern people -- South Vietnam people. I think that to normalize the relations with the Vietnamese people, and also meanwhile you can help them build up economically the country.

MacNEIL: You would like to see the United States help them build it up, even though it`s giving aid to a communist regime.

THIEN: Yes. It is for the benefits of the South Vietnamese people -- not the South, the Vietnamese all together -- because I think that the economical situation over there now is very bad.

MacNEIL: Mr. Thien, thank you very much; and we wish you and your family all good fortune in this country, and a good second Thanksgiving. Thank you very much indeed. Jim Lehrer and I will be back to morrow night. I`m Robert MacNeil. Good night.