The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour

INTRO

JIM LEHRER: Good evening. The leading headlines this Monday, new evidence indicates three American hostages in Lebanon are alive. Iraq claimed it has launched a major ground attack against Iran, and the new education secretary-designate pledged a renaissance for American education. Robin?

ROBERT MacNEIL: On the NewsHour tonight, after our news summary, the major focus is on the politics of famine in Ethiopia. We start with a documentary report by CBC correspondent Terrence McKenna about the truth behind the massive aid efforts.

TERRENCE McKENNA, CBC: The world would like to believe that the desperate call for help from the people of northern Ethiopia has been answered, the food is pouring in here. But that's not the case. Food is not reaching most of the famine victims. The truth is that in the three years since this drought began, food has been deliberately withheld from these people, even by the United States, which controls half the world's stockpile of grain. But mostly it has been withheld by the government of Ethiopia, which is using food as a weapon in a vicious civil war. That fact has been effectively covered up. Even the United Nations and international aid organizations that work here have been silent. The reason is the politics of starvation.

MacNEIL: To answer these charges we have Berhanu Dinka, the Ethiopian ambassador to the United Nations, Bradford Morse, head of the U.N. development program and Peter McPherson, head of the U.S. AID program. Also tonight, excerpts from the confirmation hearings for the new education secretary and a report on the questions facing Edwin Meese tomorrow when the Senate begins new hearings on his nomination as attorney general. News Summary

LEHRER: A piece of videotape turned up today with words and pictures of William Buckley, the U.S. embassy official kidnapped nearly a year ago in Lebanon. In it Buckley said he and two other abducted Americans are safe and well. He is seen holding a copy of a newspaper dated January 22nd. The other two kidnapped Americans are Jeremy Levin, the Beirut bureau chief for Cable News Network, and the Reverend Benjamin Weir, a Presbyterian minister. The Visnews television organization in London showed it to reporters this morning; they declined to say where it had come from, but said it was not taped by its own crew. Here is what Buckley said.

WILLIAM BUCKLEY, missing American official: Today is the 22nd of January, 1985. I am well and my friends Benjamin Weir and Jeremy Levin are also well. We ask that our government take action for our release quickly.

LEHRER: Buckley made no mention on the tape about the identity of the hijackers. In earlier calls to news organizations persons saying they were from a shadowy terrorist group, the Islamic Holy War, claimed credit.

In Washington this morning President Reagan was asked by reporters about the Buckley tape.

Pres. RONALD REAGAN: Believe me, this is very much in our minds. We haven't forgotten that they're in captivity, but I don't think it'd be productive for us to talk about what we're doing.

REPORTER: Are you relieved to see there's a videotape showing that they're alive and well?

Pres. REAGAN: Yes, because we've -- if we can take if for granted that that is recent, we've never been able to establish that one way or the other. We've just had to assume that they are.

REPORTER: Can you say that your quiet efforts have made any progress, Mr. President, in securing their release?

Pres. REAGAN: I'm not going to tell the score.

LEHRER: Unmentioned in all of it today were two other Americans who also have disappeared in Beirut. They are Peter Kilburn, librarian at the American University in Beirut and the Reverend Lawrence Jencke, a priest, who heads the Catholic Relief Services office in Beirut. Father Jencke was kidnapped by six gunmen as he was riding to work January 8th. Robin?

MacNEIL: Also overseas, strong disagreement was reported among OPEC oil ministers who met in emergency session to consider lowering the cartel's crude oil price. The minister of the United Arab Emirates walked out of the Geneva meeting, angrily accusing Nigeria of stabbing OPEC in the back by producing above its quota. Saudi oil minister Sheik Yamani said the meeting would consider lowering prices on average by not more than a few cents. OPEC faces falling sales because its official prices are higher than free market rates.

The Persian Gulf war reportedly heated up today. Iraq said its forces had launched a major new offensive on Iranian territory near the city of Basra. Iran said it had crushed the new Iraqi offensive, inflicting heavy losses.

LEHRER: A group of education and children's activists charged today thesystem is leaving behind the nation's poor and minority children. The panel said the public schools are cheating these young people and making them part of a permanent underclass in America. Former U.S. education commissioner Harold Howe and Marian Wright Edelman, president of the Children's Defense Fund, headed the panel and issued today's findings at a Washington news conference.

HAROLD HOWE, National Board of Inquiry into Schools: State and local financing of schools adds up to a conspiracy to spend more money on rich kids and less money on poor kids, to provide services that are supposed to be fair to all children. High schools are unfriendly places for too many students, who receive little personal attention and join the 40% of dropouts that are typical of the schools of many cities.In effect they become pushouts. Excessive the of tests tend to limit instruction to exercises designed to improve test scores, restricting opportunities for more challenging learning. Also, students are frequently tested and weaknesses identified, but infrequently provided with help to repair those weaknesses. They are frequently labeled as retarded or learning disabled without adequate evidence. Black students are placed in classes for the mentally retarded at rates more than three times those for white students for no discernible reason.

LEHRER: Meanwhile today, William Bennett, the man who would be secretary of education, pledged his efforts to bring a renaissance to U.S. education. Bennett, now head of the National Endowment for the Humanities, is President Reagan's nominee to be education secretary. He appeared today at confirmation hearings before the Senate Labor and Human Resources Committee.

WILLIAM BENNETT, Secretary of Education-Designate: The federal government must assist the states in ensuring that all students, whatever their race, color, sex, handicap or English proficiency, have the opportunity to participate fully in our society. In this regard, I would seek the full enforcement of all laws and regulations pertaining to the programs of the Department of Education. At the same time, I will make every effort to prevent the department from being needlessly meddlesome or intrusive. In my view, providing financial support should not give the federal government the right to control educational policy in our schools. I would, Mr. Chairman, deeply appreciate the challenge of leading the Department of Education during the next four years and pursuing a genuine renaissance in American education.

LEHRER: We will have a larger section of Secretary-designate Bennett's testimony in a focus segment later in the program.

MacNEIL: Also in Washington, the rather heavy-footed ballet about who will cut what to reduce the federal budget defict continues. Over the weekend Senator Barry Goldwater, chairman of the Armed Services Committee, came out against any more defense cuts than Secretary Weinberger has agreed to. He thus lined up with Weinberger and President Reagan against Majority Leader Robert Dole, who said on Friday that Weinberger's unwillingness to compromise was jeopardizing efforts to come up with significant budget reductions.

Republican leaders saw the Presidnet at the White House today. Afterwards, Finance Committee Chairman Bob Packwood said he thought Congress could clear both budget cuts and a tax reform bill by August, but the priority was clearly on budget cuts.

Sen ROBERT PACKWOOD, (R) Oregon, Chairman, Finance Committee: Our uniform advice was that we go ahead on the spending cuts first and to everything we can on the spending cuts before we approach a tax reform bill. Secretary Regan in response said that he thought it would be several weeks or maybe quite a number of weeks, maybe a month or two, before there would actually be a tax reform bill drafted, and while the President may have some general comments in his State of the Union speech, that clearly the spending cuts will go first.

MacNEIL: According to Edwin Meese's lawyers, staff members in the Government Ethics Office found that the nominee for attorney general violated the rules for federal employees, but they were overruled by the director of that office. The two staff members and the director have been summoned to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee at a hearing on Meese's nomination tomorrow. Meese's lawyer said the director of the Ethics Office overruled the staff finding after reviewing additional information. That was supplied by the lawyer to clarify when Meese learned of a loan made to the buyer of Meese's house in California. Later in the program we'll have a focus section on the latest developments in the Meese nomination. Politics of Famine

LEHRER: The most awful story this day, this week, this time continues to be the famine in Africa -- the tragedy of men, women and little children by the thousands dying of thirst, starvation and disease. Clearly the most disgusting sidebar story to this main event is the one of political murder, the continuing charge that with the silent acquiescence of the United Nations and others, the Ethiopian government is intentionally preventing food and other aid from reaching some of its people. They are the residents of the provinces of Eritrea and Tigre in northern Ethiopia, near the Sudan. There have been civil wars going on in these areas for years, for some as many as 25 years. For some the wars are for local autonomy from the Ethiopian government; for others it's the overthrow of the Ethiopian government completely. It is this political part of the Ethiopian famine tragedy that we focus on first and foremost tonight. Representatives of the Ethiopian government and the United Nations are here, as is the head of the U.S. government's relief organization. But first the charge as laid out in this documentary report by correspondent Terence McKenna of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation for the CBS's "The Journal" program.

TERENCE McKENNA [voice-over]: Anyone who believes that the Ethiopian government is in control of the whole country is in for a surprise when they visit the famine areas in the north. It is the TPLF, the Tigre Peoples Liberation Front, that calls the shots here. They're a coalition of opposition groups from Tigre province that banded together and launched a civil war nine years ago. Although some of the leaders are said to be Communist, they claim they're not fighting for any political dogma.They're fighting to save their Tigryina language and culture. The rebels are well-organized and well-armed, the weapons in this field exercise all captured from the Ethiopian army. They are now allies with the rebels in the neighboring province of Eritrea, who have been fighting the government for 23 years.

You have to look at a map of Ethiopia to understand how the political situation affects the famine areas in the north. The one major road from the capital of Addis Ababa through the northern provinces of Tigre and Eritrea is controlled by Ethiopian government troops. On that road, at Korem and Mekele, are the refugee camps familiar from recent television newscasts. There arefewer than 200,000 people in the government camps along this road, but there are up to four million people at risk of starvation living in the rebel-held areas around the province of Tigre. The Ethiopian government seldom enters rebel territory, but they tell the world that they are delivering food everywhere in the country.

This is the Ethiopian government camp of Korem, where 54,000 famine victims are receiving daily rations. The government, though, has a different approach to the millions of famine victims in the surrounding hills controlled by the guerrillas, where observers see a military solution being imposed.

CHRIS CARTTER, Grassroots International: I believe, especially after this trip and talking to the drought migrants, that the Ethiopian government intends to starve out a population that it has been unsuccessful in crushing militarily for the past almost 10 years.

CHARLES ELLIOTT, British Independent Aid: The military authorities, essentially the junta, saw food shortage in Eritrea and Tigre as a strategic weapon in their own hands. And they were quite prepared, as I suppose military authorities have been throughout history, quite prepared to use the enemy's shortage of supplies as a weapon.

McKENNA [voice-over]: The famine victims in rebel-held areas have been deprived of food and medicine for so long, when they finally reach help it's often too late. These families have watched their loved ones die, killed not only by the intentional withholding of food but killed by the active government campaigns against them.

JOSEPH MUBRATU, former Ethiopian official: We have eyewitness reports, Europeans as well as Ethiopians, who saw the army going from place to place and burning crops in a place where crops are very precious. And that cannot mean anything else as trying to starve the people.

McKENNA [voice-over]: The combination of the civil war and the drought has triggered a massive exodus of people from the rebel-held areas of northern Ethiopia toward the border with neighboring Sudan, especially to the area around the Sudanese town of Kassala. To hold back the approaching waves of humanity, the rebels are attempting to build their own relief operation. On the outskirts of Kassala the Relief Society of Tigre is running a mill where wheat donated by the International Red Cross is ground into flour. The biggest problem is how to transport this food to those in need.

The rebels have only 36 trucks to get food in to the millions of famine victims in Tigre. Both trucks and flour are in pitifully short supply. We decided to follow one of the truck convoys into the rebel territory of northern Ethiopia, accompanied by a Tigrynia-speaking translator-guide and some rebel soldiers ordered to protect us. We wanted to see for ourselves how many refugees are in the pipeline and why they are moving. There are allegations that the rebels are exaggerating the refugee problem.

Some governments and aid agencies don't even believe the rebels can make these food deliveries because of the lack of roads across the mountains and desert. But we followed these 10-ton, four-wheel-drive vehicles as they drove in and out of the soft sand, through riverbeds and over mountains. We were told that some of these trucks had been stolen from the Ethiopian government by the rebels. After nightfall the trucks rendezvous at a pre-arranged spot on the Ethiopia-Sudan border. The loads often work loose during the rough ride and have to be refastened and rearranged.

There is a man with a machine gun in the front seat with every driver, more scouts and checkpoints along the way. The convoys travel at night to avoid attack from the Ethiopian air force, which rules the sky during daylight hours. Just before dawn we enter a rebel transit camp, and by sunrise the trucks have disappeared. They are hidden under the trees in layers of camouflage, invisible to Ethiopian pilots. Everyone sleeps on the sand beside the vehicles.

Coming into this transit camp from the other direction are refugees who have been walking most of the night. They too are occasionally strafed by the air force. We were told to expect two or three thousand people stopping overnight in this camp, but there were closer to 8,000 and around five in the afternoon they all poured into the dried-up riverbed and began again the long night's walk. Many have been walking for 30, 40, even 50 days. Most say they intend to return one day to their homes and possessions, but the journey is so arduous that many never go back. There are 24 rebel camps like this one in western Tigre, about 300,000 people who will wait as long as they can for food and then begin to walk. The allegation is that they are being driven out of the rebel areas intentionally by the government of Eithiopia.

1st REFUGEE [through interpreter]: The government of Ethiopia kills us and burns us wherever we go without any reason. They kill, burn and destroy every person.

McKENNA [voice-over]: The refugees we spoke to confirmed the stories of mistreatment by the Ethiopian government. Many say there have been bombardments and massacres, huts full of people burned by soldiers. Some were turned away from government feeding centers.

2nd REFUGEE [through interpreter]: We went eight or nine times to government camps. We went to Maichew but we were asked to leave. Some people died of starvation there. There were others who remained there because they were tired and they were unable to leave. After traveling one to two days we went home exhausted. After those problems, the government gathered the people, husbands and wives, and burned them to death.

3rd REFUGEE [through interpreter]: The district officer, Dica Afarien, told us that the government will give us food aid. After this we went to the camp in a group. Some people were given eight tins of food each. The rest were told to go back home without getting anything. The people who had nothing to eat hesitated and preferred to stay there, but the district officer started to beat us with a stick, insisting that we should go back home. Then we went back home empty-handed.

McKENNA: How many people were closer to an Ethiopian government camp but came here instead? [show of hands among group being interviewed]

[interviewing] I spoke to many of your citizens who walked for 20 days, 30 days, 40 days. They said they were closer to government camps but that they walked all the way towards the Sudan. Why would they be doing that?

DAWIT WOLDE GIORGIS, Ethiopian Government Relief Committee: No. I don't think so. I don't why they would do that.

[interviewing refugees]

McKENNA: How many people have ever been bombed or shot at by the Ethiopian government here? [show of many hands]

[with Giorgis] I have heard people tell me stories of bombing and strafing by the Ethiopian air force. They were really scared of the government and that's why they walked so far to get towards the Sudan.

Mr. GIORGIS: I don't think so. Well, people who cross the border to Sudan, well, they are sometimes obliged to create stories because they feel that they can get sympathy only if they tell some dramatic stories. But I can assure you, in terms of sincerity that is -- we have tried even to distribute food even to the rebels themselves.

McKENNA: Ten years ago there was another famine here. Over 200,000 people died, many because the government of Haile Selassie was embarrassed by the famine and so covered it up. We now know that the foreign diplomatic corps here, the United Nations and other international food organizations knew what was happening but said nothing. This time around the famine itself is no secret, but once again the world's major food agencies are not saying anything about how the government of Ethiopia is holding back food from most of the famine victims. The agencies themselves are caught up in a tangled web of politics, conflicting mandates and internal struggles. More people are dying because of it.

Mr. ELLIOTT: I don't think it's a conspiracy of silence. I don't think the U.N. agencies are capable of a conspiracy of silence. I think it's much more a combination of straight incompetence and a lot of jockeying for position; the U.N. agencies who so busy knifing each other that they were at least as much a part of the problem as they were of the solution.

McKENNA [voice-over]: Among the donor organizations that meet regularly in Addis Ababa, the United Nations agencies are the most prominent and powerful. It's true that they don't always get along, but in Ethiopia they had more serious problems. The U.N. organizations have been effectively silenced by their mandates. For example, take UNDRO, the United Nations Disaster Relief Organization, which coordinates the entire relief effort here. This UNDRO internal document, an October, 1983 situation report, describes a U.N. mission to Ethiopia which was "alarmed by the small proportion of needy people being reached." But UNDRO would never say that publicly.

[interviewing] Are you in a position where it's very difficult for you to criticize the host government if you don't believe they're acting properly?

M'HAMED ESSAAFI, U.N. Disaster Relief Organization: It is not productive as far as we are concerned. We have to work with the government there, and if we keep criticizing it will just create difficulties. And I don't believe it is in our interest to do that when we have so much to do.

McKENNA [voice-over]: The victims on the rebels' side are receiving only a tiny fraction of what they need to stay alive. While most of the northern famine victims are on the rebel side, the government side is receiving 20 times more food. Most United Nations agencies are doing little to right the balance.

DAN CONNELL, Grassroots International: Now, UNICEF, for example, in September of 1984, put out a statement saying that there were six million people in need in northern Ethiopia and only one million people could be reached. It's simply not true. The other five million can be reached, but they can't be reached through U.N. channels.Now, I think the United Nations and every other private agency in that area has a responsibility to those people to describe what they can do and what they can't do and what the actual crisis itself entails.

McKENNA: Why cannot the United Nations raise the alarm about this and say the situation as it exists in Ethiopia is that most of the famine victims are not being fed through government channels and that therefore people should be donating food through other channels?

Mr. ESSAAFI: I must tell you that the United Nations, if it did that,the government, the present government can say this is interference in my own internal affairs, because they can always find a way of explaining that. And what would serve the United Nations? The United Nations cannot work if the government says no, stop them. You're not allowed to come in.

McKENNA: But surely when people are starving, if that is -- if the truth is that relief is not reaching most of the famine victims, that's more importrant than the diplomatic niceties of the way the United Nations works.

Mr. ESSAAFI: I entirely agree with you as an individual, but as coordinator I must tell you that in each resolution which has been passed in the United Nations, there has been a paragraph saying the sovereignty of the country must be respected.

McKENNA: What price would the United Nations organizations pay by saying this is the situation, even if it is insulting to the government of Ethiopia?

Mr. ESSAAFI: It will not be able to intervene in the country at all.

McKENNA: You believe that the Ethiopian government would kick out the United Nations organizations?

Mr. ESSAAFI: I tell you that if I do it UNDRO will not be able to work there. That I am -- not believe, I am certain.

McKENNA [voice-over]: Ten years ago the U.N. organizations made a solemn pledge that death by starvation would be eradicated from the planet by 1984. They failed. Until the U.N. can make an agreement that will eliminate the politics that withhold food from the starving, this scene will happen again and again.

MacNEIL: To answer these charges we have, first, Ethiopia's ambassador to the United Nations, Berhanu Dinka. Mr. Ambassador, how do you respond to the basic charge in that report that your government is deliberately withholding food from most of the famine victims because they live in the two rebel provinces?

BERHANU DINKA: Well, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity. My reaction to the film that we have just seen is one of indignation, because the whole story is based on hearsay and allegations made by two or three individuals, namely Don Connell, Chris Cartter and Mr. Elliott of the British Independent Aid.

MacNEIL: All represented as of different independent aid organizations.

Amb. DINKA: Aid organizations who have no -- who are not participating in any manner in the assistance that's being given to Ethiopia. They are not operating in Ethiopia. These people are working some in Britain and in Boston. In the case of Mr. Don Connell and Chris Cartter of Grassroots International, they are not operating in Ethiopia. They have not seen what's going on. They have not been there. And basically the three of them are well-known to European audiences, to us, to Ethiopians and to our neighbors as people who have committed themselves for some over a decade now to the cause of the rebellion movement in Ethiopia, in the northern Ethiopia.

MacNEIL: All right. Let me give you an opportunity to answer the very specific charges.

Amb. DINKA: Yes.

MacNEIL: You heard not only from them but from your countrymen, who were among those refugees who say the government is killing refugees. For example, many of them have been strafed from the air by your air force.

Amb. DINKA: Now, as the Ethiopian commissioner for relief and rehabilitation, Mr. Dawit, was saying on this interview, these people who have gone to the Sudan or to other neighboring countries, it's very easy for anybody who wants to put anything into their mouth to coerce them. For instance, if you had looked carefully at the film, when these people were asking them, how have been bombed among you, or who have been close to Ethiopian shelter but preferred to come over here, without even the thing being interpreted into their language, the people were raising their hands. And in other interviews it's always interpreted for them.

MacNEIL: I think probably it had been interpreted but abbreviated so that you didn't have to listen to the interpretation and the re-interpretation back.

Amb. DINKA: In any case, if you're asking for --

MacNEIL: It's a device that's very commonly used to abbreviate it.

Amb. DINKA: All right, beg pardon. Okay. If you're asking for the substance of the issue of those that have been mentioned in the film, whether the Ethiopian government is starving these people intentionally or also -- and are bombing them when they run across the border, I will say absolutely no basis in these allegations to the two questions.

MacNEIL: Is your government delivering food to the, they said, four million people who live in Eritrea and Tigre? Is your government delivering food to them?

Amb. DINKA: Yes, the Ethiopian government has been delivering and is delivering food to all that are in Ethiopia. One difficulty sometimes limits its efforts, and that's the availability of food and the availability of transportation. But as far as reaching all Ethiopians that are in need, irrespective of where they are located, the Ethiopian government has been doing that.

MacNEIL: So you say that report is totally false?

Amb. DINKA: It's absolutely false, and if you give me enough time I can tell you why it's false and who are doing this and to tell -- just to say, before I finish my sentence, the credible non-governmental organizations, the donor countries in Ethiopia which are operating in Ethiopia, 39 different NGOs have seen this film in Addis Ababa last week. And they all denounced it as malicious and are surprised that it is made in Canada apparently by the Canadian television because the Canadian ambassador was the foremost denouncer of this film.

MacNEIL: We'll come back to you, Mr. Ambassador. Now for the United Nations view we have Bradford Morse, former member of Congress who for the last nine years has headed the U.N. Development Program, which provides development assistance to 150 countries. In December he was made the executive director of the U.N. Office for Emergency Relief Operations in Africa. Mr. Morse, that report also makes a very grave charge about the United Nations, that it is keeping silent about the deliberate starvation of millions. What is your response to it?

BRADFORD MORSE: There is no doubt that that's a very -- an exceedingly serious allegation, and I can merely say the fact -- I can merely cite the fact that the representative of the United Nations Development Program, who has been in Addis for the last several months, the last two years, has again and again called attention of the press and the public generally to the fact that there are areas in the country in which it's difficult to get food because of reasons of topography, because of reasons of fighting that's going on, and certainly there has been absolutely no effort whatsoever to disguise this, to hide it in any way. More recently, the special representative of the secretary-general, who is there in Addis Ababa and has been there now since November -- his name is Jansson, from Finland -- has volunteered to take a convoy, a food convoy from the railhead Asmara, which is in the north part of the country, across Tigre to Makele. The permission wasn't forthcoming, but there certainly has been no attempt at all to disguise, to cover in any way.

MacNEIL: Well, what does the U.N. believe, what do you believe, about the basic truth of that report, that the majority of people who are hungry are not receiving the aid because they live in those two provinces?

Mr. MORSE: Well, I did note the words of the announcer on the CBC broadcast and just recorded very carefully what he said, and he asserted that the government is holding back food from most of the famine victims. Well, there are in Ethiopia today 7.7 million people who, as we call them, are most seriously affected. Of those, 1 1/2 million are in Tigre; 825,000 are in total in Eritrea. So that's a total of 2.3-plus million out of a total of 7.7 million, which is certainly not the most of the famine victims; it is about 30% that are most seriously affected in these two areas.

MacNEIL: Well, then does that mean that 30% are not being fed?

Mr. MORSE: I can't tell you. I can't tell you.

MacNEIL: You don't know?

Mr. MORSE: I can't tell you.

MacNEIL: Do you have people operating in those two provinces?

Mr. MORSE: We have, as I have just indicated, we offered to bring people through or bring a convoy through. The ICRC --

MacNEIL: But the government refused you.

Mr. MORSE: But not -- for the reasons of the safety of the participants. We share our work with many other organizations, not least the International Committee for the Red Cross, the ICRC, which does have extensive activities both in the province of Tigre and Eritrea, and they have many, many feeding stations there that are operated by the International Committee for the Red Cross. Now, this is not to refute what we've just seen on the screen. I can't give you a flat answer to that. I can tell you that certainly we would find it abhorrent, as we do, when you can't reach people. As recently as Saturday of last week we started new air drops because there were people not far, 170 miles northwest -- 170 kilometers northwest of Addis Ababa, where you can't reach people except by donkey. Well, we started air drops there just last week, so this is not an unusual circumstance.

MacNEIL: So you don't know how many people are not being fed because of political or military obstacles?

Mr. MORSE: Oh, I'm not in any position to make a judgment on the issue of the motives nor to provide a precise figure as to the numbers.

MacNEIL: All right, we'll come back. Jim?

LEHRER: A third view of it; it's that of Peter McPherson, administrator of the U.S. Agency for International Development. Mr. McPherson, is that report totally false on what's happening in northern Ethiopia?

M. PETER McPHERSON: The worst drought problem in Africa today is in northern Ethiopia. There are a couple million people, perhaps, who are in desperate need and they're not getting the food they should get.A lot of reasons, I suppose. Recently, the Ethiopia government impounded food that was coming into the major port of Ethiopia, but which was bound to go up to Port Sudan and back around across the border into Ethiopia to feed these various people. I noted at that time -- that was just a few days ago -- that that was an unconscionable act and we deeply believe it to be the case. There are a lot of problems, and these problems simply really must be dealt with. I'm very happy that we have this program tonight.

LEHRER: What is your view of what the Ethiopian government is doing in terms of keeping food out of that area?

Mr. McPHERSON: I don't know about motives, but the facts are that there are two million-plus people, probably, that aren't getting food through up into their area. The Ethiopia government has represented to us that they are prepared to let food go anyplace in the country solely on the basis of need, and that's what we continue to call for.

LEHRER: But it's not happening?

Mr. McPHERSON: There are certainly areas where food isn't going. What really needs to be done here is we need to have safe passages for vehicles that carry food, safe passages not just through the Ethiopia government areas, but through those areas held by the dissidents. Both the dissidents and the government must give such safe passage.

LEHRER: Have you suggested that sort of thing?

Mr. McPHERSON: We have indeed.

LEHRER: What kind of response have you had?

Mr. McPHERSON: Well, not too much, frankly, so far. Not much from anybody, from either grouping. Or, there are multiple groupings of the dissidents. I feel confident, and I have studied it at great length, reviewed it again today and have talked about it, looked at it for months. I feel confident that without such safe passage of food vehicles -- and it's not an unusual concept. We've had Red Cross vehicles have such safe passages for decades. Without such safe passage, there are going to be, in our judgment, hundreds of thousands of more people who will die.

LEHRER: What's your view of the charge made in the film against the United Nations?

Mr. McPHERSON: Well, let me say that I think Brad Morse, assuming his position just a couple of weeks ago, is an outstanding move. Brad is a well-regarded person throughout the world and has already proven, in a couple of weeks, his ability to move things around. Recently a person by the name of Janssen, a Norwegian [sic], has taken over as the coordinator within Ethiopia.

LEHRER: The man we saw on the tape from the United Nations is no longer there, correct?

Mr. McPHERSON: Well, he no longer has this function. And, frankly, I disagree, and I think Mr. Morse would, too. I think any official in the U.N. has a responsibility to speak out on the need for things to be done morally and right.

LEHRER: But from your perspective, have they done so, Mr. McPherson?

Mr. McPHERSON: I think with Brad there and Janssen there things are beginning to happen.

LEHRER: They haven't done it up 'til now, you would agree?

Mr. McPHERSON: Well, they're doing the things they need to do. I really do feel the last few weeks things are beginning to move.

LEHRER: The last few weeks?

Mr. McPHERSON: Yes, sir.

LEHRER: Thank you. Robin?

MacNEIL: Mr. Ambassador, both these gentlemen say, without ascribing motives to your government, that a number of people -- in the case of Mr. Morse he doesn't know how many; Mr. McPherson says two million people -- in those provinces are not getting the food they need.

Amb. DINKA: I never denied that. I said as long as our food availability and transportation equipment permits us, there is no place that we have not tried to reach and we could not reach. The problem is sometimes we have no food, even in the port. For instance, out of the 50,000 tons the United States government has pledged to us in October we have not received so far a single ton. And there are pledges --

MacNEIL: Well, let's talk about food quantities first. Then we'll go into the other things --

Amb. DINKA: That's what I mean.

MacNEIL: Let's get the view of these other two gentlemen. Does that ring true to you, that the quantity of food is not there?

Mr. MORSE: I can't speak of the specific circumstances that the ambassador just spoke of, but at this moment we have absolute schedules for food to come into Ethiopia between January and April of this year which will total 490 [sic] tons. We know when the vessels are arriving and they're all scheduled and we don't have any doubt about it's getting there. There are enormous internal logistical problems after food leaves the port to go to warehouses.

MacNEIL: But getting to Ethiopia, there is adequate food getting to Ethiopia?

Mr. MORSE: Yes.

MacNEIL: Mr. McPherson, what is your view of that?

Mr. McPHERSON: That in fact in recent weeks we've been able to move quite a lot of food into Ethiopia; about 100,000 ton-plus a month is necessary, and that is now coming in. Most of our food, in fact all of our food until just this date, has been going through private voluntary organizations like Catholic Relief and World Vision. In a few days some food will be going in too, for distribution by the government.

MacNEIL: New, do you agree with the two million figure, that there are two million people who are not being fed?

Amb. DINKA: I don't believe anybody knows exactly how many they are. The thing is, there are areas that are inaccessible. The areas that are --

MacNEIL: Why are they inaccessible?

Amb. DINKA: I'll give you two reasons. One is inaccessibility because of the topography, which Mr. Morse just referred to, and that we are trying to get by trucks, by donkeys, by air drop now; we started last Saturday. And the other one, there are some areas on the border on Ethiopia and the Sudan where there are security problems, and there we have been reaching with military convoys. We have given military convoys to non-governmental organizations like World Vision. They can testify to that.

MacNEIL: What about Mr. McPherson's point that what is really needed is for your government to give safe passage for food convoys and that you've been asked and so far you haven't agreed?

Amb. DINKA: Well, I didn't want to take up this matter, but since Mr. McPherson started it, I'll give you an answer to that. This is not a new idea that's just coming on this television screen. They -- some governments and some organizations and particularly the Grassroots International people and others, have been trying to delude the world by this kind of idea. It's in a way to give some kind of legitimacy to the rebel groups who are operating and organized from foreign territories, working against us as terrorists. To get some legitimacy for them, the legitimacy that they could not get on the battlefield, that they could not get on political grounds. They want to do it through food now.

MacNEIL: So you're saying no to safe passage for food convoys through areas you control, because it would help the rebels? Is that what you're saying?

Amb. DINKA: No, no. I'm saying, for example, there is Catholic Relief Services, there is the International Committee for the Red Cross, there is a Lutheran World Federation, Catholic Secretariat and World Vision who are right now operating in both Eritrea and Tigre. They are operating there, and we are not hindering their activities.

MacNEIL: Let me ask Mr. McPherson what he thinks --

Amb. DINKA: Now, they want what we are doing within our own country with these people to make it more legitimate and legalize some kind of acceptance of the rebellion that is going on against us, instigated by foreign forces, foreign governments.

MacNEIL: What is your comment on that, Mr. McPherson?

Mr. McPHERSON: Well, I think it's important to note that a few months ago we were very critical, really, of the Ethiopian government generally in terms of how it was handling the drought. In recent months there has been a substantial additional amount of trucks thrown into the effort by the Ethiopian government and food began to move. Food is getting into those camps, American food and other food, and children are being fed. I've seen it myself.

MacNEIL: But those camps are outside the two rebel provinces.

Mr. McPHERSON: That's exactly right. The problem that we're facing, and again I would say the worst problem we have in Africa today is those areas that are in contested control -- contested by governments and the dissidents, that two million-plus, perhaps, people live in. There is a dispute as to how many, but a substantial number live there, and it is those areas that simply aren't getting the food. We're trying -- there are flights going into the Sudan side of the border, there is other work, but we simply aren't getting enough food there, and I'm convinced -- and I deeply feel this, and I've worked it over many times -- I'm convinced that without the ability to move food trucks freely through government-controlled areas, through dissident areas and so forth, we simply with not save the lives of hundreds of thousands of people who will otherwise die.

MacNEIL: Do you agree with this?

Mr. MORSE: I do, indeed, and I think that it is achievable. I think we should recognize, though, there are a number of camps there that are already being operated under auspices, which is providing food to people. But I would think that if it were possible to do as Peter has said it would be exceedingly useful, of course.

MacNEIL: Now, why won't the government let them do that?

Amb. DINKA: Well, I'll tell you what we can do. The Ethiopian government has been doing its best and will continue to do its best to provide food, distribute food to these people also and also at the same time to allow the existing international, non-governmental organizations like ICRC, International Committee of the Red Cross, Lutheran World Federation, Catholic Service to operate in these ageas unhindered. But the kind of food truce or something that you have been hearing in the news media is absolutely unacceptable to us because there are certain groups who want, as I said earlier, to use this thing for legitimizing their --

MacNEIL: In other words, you're --

Amb. DINKA: -- and also for certain governments to put their fingers in our internal affairs. We'll never accept that.

MacNEIL: So you're saying that your government is putting obstacles to the operation of some relief agencies in those areas because you fear that they have political motives?

Amb. DINKA: No. I said those who are there, like the International Red Cross, like Catholic Relief Services, Lutheran World Services [sic], who are already there in those provinces, they are operating without hindrance.

MacNEIL: I see.

Amb. DINKA: And I'm asking a question. If these people are working without hindrance, if we are trying to reach all these people, why is it that the so-called food truce or something like that necessary? And truce with whom? Which government is fighting us?

MacNEIL: Yes, Mr. McPherson?

Mr. McPHERSON: Yes, we specifically aren't using the word food truce.We really don't want to get into politics there in Ethiopia. What we're saying is safe passage for food trucks, safe passage.Everybody allows food trucks to go where they need to go. And I think that's -- we want to minimize the interference into the body politic of the country.

MacNEIL: And that hasnot happened?

Mr. McPHERSON: That has not happened.

MacNEIL: And that has not happened?

Amb. DINKA: Well, as I said, these four, five groups, they are working with trucks, I am sure. Their trucks are passing. And when Mr. McPherson or anybody says there must be free passage for trucks, I don't really know what we're talking about, because we already have this free passage for trucks.

MacNEIL: Mr. McPherson?

Amb. DINKA: How are these people operating otherwise?

Mr. McPHERSON: Well, we'd like to see it, and we believe deeply, and I believe the ambassador does as well, that we must feed those millions of people or thousands will die.

MacNEIL: We have to leave it there, gentlemen. Mr. Morse, Ambassador Dinka, thank you for joining us; Mr. McPherson in Washington. Jim?

LEHRER: Still to come on the NewsHour tonight, a focus segment on today's Senate testimony by Education Secretary-designate William Bennett and a look at the prospect for confirmation of another would-be cabinet member, Edwin Meese. The Principal Educator

LEHRER: The administration has been without a secretary of education since late last month when Terrell Bell resigned and returned home to Utah. The man President Reagan chose to replace him is William Bennett, who has headed the National Endowment for the Humanities in the Reagan administration. Today he appeared for confirmation before the Senate Labor and Human Resources Committee, and our next focus segment is an edited excerpt from the proceedings. We begin with the question about a Reagan administration proposal to cut back student aid money.

Sen. EDWARD KENNEDY, (D) Massachusetts: Directing your attention to the Stockman proposals which would cut the $2.78 billion from the student financial aid over three years. This would come from the guaranteed student loan program, only those students from families making less than the $32,500 would be eligible for subsidized loans. First of all, are you supporting that particular proposal of Mr. Stockman?

Sec.-Designate BENNETT: Well, my initial reaction would be to see or to expect that such a provision would have tough consequences, would be difficult for many people, such as the people you describe. On the other hand, one recognizes, at least I think we all recognize, that some limit is appropriate. It's a question of where to draw the line. I have no argument with you about the principle, which I take it we could all agree is an aspiration, that no student who is qualified on the merits should be denied the opportunity of going to college or university of his choice. I don't argue with that principle at all, but supposing it's the case, and my guess is it is, that the amount of funds that we are talking about that would make our meeting that aspiration possible is simply beyond the realm of possibility in current budget circumstances, then I suppose one asks, where do we cut? Where do we make the decision? And my own visceral inclination is, as you asked for it, would be to say we should help those who are most in need, those who are the neediest, those who are the poorest. And this will mean a hard impact, difficult circumstance for many people at the middle level or even just below the middle level. But I think if there are limited dollars, and my guess is under any proposal there will be limited dollars, those who are the poorest should be helped first.

Sen. ROBERT STAFFORD, (R) Vermont: Dr. Bennett, do you support continuance of the Department of Education substantially in its present form?

Sec.-Designate BENNETT: Senator, as you know and as we discussed, and I am here to say to the full committee I was not asked to dismantle the department or abolish the department. I was asked to make a study of the department's effectiveness. Obviously it's not within my authority to abolish the department. That authority rests with the President and Congress. But I am happy to say that I have no interest or belief really very close to your remarks spanning the next four years, debating whether there should be a department of education. There are more important things to do.

Sen. STAFFORD: In a word, do I understand you have answered yes or no to my question?

Sec.-Designate BENNETT: I have no either particular assignment or intention to abolish or dismantle the department. I shall do the study that the President asked me to do.

Sen. CHRISTOPHER DODD, (D) Connecticut: I wonder if you might share with the committee your views on tuition tax credits, whether or not you support them, to what extent you would support them, whether or not you believe, in the fiscal environment in which we presently find ourselves, such legislation would be appropriate?

Sec.-Designate BENNETT: Yes, sir. I do support tuition tax credits. I believe that they are an important part not only, as has often been said, of the federal government saying that it recognizes and wishes to support choice, but also, I believe, tuition tax credits will have the beneficial effect of increasing competition.

LEHRER: Our final focus segment is on the propects for Edwin Meese, President Reagan's friend and White House counselor who has been nominated to be attorney general of the United States, confirmation hearings open tomorrow. Judy Woodruff has the rest.Judy? A Confirmation Struggle

JUDY WOODRUFF: Jim, as everyone knows, this is the second go-round for Mr. Meese, whose confirmation was stopped cold last year when charges cropped up about favors Meese had done for friends who had helped him financially. A specially appointed prosecutor has since cleared him of any legal wrong-doing, and everything seemed to be moving along smoothly for a quick confirmation this year. But today a story in The Wall Street Journal disclosed that the Office of Government Ethics found that Meese had violated federal ethics rules and that, coupled with an all-out campaign by the citizens' lobbying group, Common Cause, has thrown a new wrinkle into what was supposed to be a sure thing. Here to bring us up to date on the Meese situation is political scientist Norman Ornstein, a congressional specialist and a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.

Dr. Ornstein, what's the difference between what the special prosecutor cleared Meese of and now what the Office of Government Ethics said that he apparently violated?

NORMAN ORNSTEIN: Well, it's a question of whether illegalities are involved that could result in indictment and prosecution. We have an Office of Government Ethics created under the 1978 Ethics in Government Act, and a subsequent order by the President, an executive order, requires that office to do a study of whether people violate conflict-of-interest provisions. That might be something that's legal -- fits within the narrow bounds of legality -- but which creates at least the illusion of a conflict of interest. And that's what we're talking about here. It's where Meese has done things that either are conflicts of interest or look like conflicts of interest, that may not be illegal but might be unethical.

WOODRUFF: So in the ethics office at the staff level they found there were violations, but the director of the office determined not to go ahead?

Dr. ORNSTEIN: Decided not to go ahead and issue a recommendation to the President that Meese be punished in some fashion. Now, this report just came out, at least, in some form in the article in The Wall Street Journal, and it's created certainly some concern among those who are supporting the nomination.

WOODRUFF: What has been the impact in the committee now?

Dr. ORNSTEIN: The committee had hoped -- the Republicans had hoped that they could go through one day of hearings, after the lengthy hearings last year when the nomination was eventually withdrawn, get it to the Senate floor next week while there's momentum, while we're fresh after the election, the inauguration and President Reegan is riding high and get this over with and get it out of the way, and once he's confirmed it's put behind us. Now, clearly this is going to go for more than one day of hearings. We're going to get into some of the details of why the director of the ethics office didn't recommend something more, given the staff report, that the staff report did recommend. This is going to add some momentum to the critics and some legitimacy to the critics that they had been trouble getting after this report by the special prosecutor.

WOODRUFF: What specifically was the recommendation -- was the reaction, rather, of Senator Thurmond who is the chairman of the Judiciary Committee?

Dr. ORNSTEIN: Well, what I hear at least from people who are on the committee is that Thurmond is rather upset by all of this. As you might expect, I think he saw his charge as getting this nomination through. He's now talked to Mr. Martin, the director of the ethics office, he's asked that he and some of his attorneys appear to testify. And I suspect that at least a good portion of tomorrow's hearing is going to be taken up with the nature of this report, before we move on to several of the other issues, including the specific issues that were in the report and others that have been raised subsequently, about loans and the sale of Mr. Meese's house and what he did in return, if anything, in getting jobs for people who did these things.

WOODRUFF: What does it mean for Meese if all this does drag on?As you said, they've been planning to do this in a day or two days at most. What does it mean now for him if it does end up spilling over?

Dr. ORNSTEIN: The longer this goes, the worse it is for Mr. Meese. At this point you'd have to say that he is still a clear favorite to win confirmation by the Senate at some point, but if this goes on for a few more weeks, if he is called in to testify, if we go through several more days of hearings, and if he perhaps makes some mistakes or if new things come out or if other things that have been raised in the past get raised to another level, he may well have some problems. And there's one other factor here. If a Senate rules change goes through, as it might in the next few days, it will require a number of members of the Judiciary Committee to shed one of their major committee assignments. We might see a wholesale turnover on this committee that could throw a wild card into this and maybe bring on other people who aren't for confirmation.

WOODRUFF: So you might have a whole different line-up of members involved in the voting?

Dr. ORNSTEIN: Yes. And some of the Republicans, including Senators Grassley and Mathias and maybe Specter are at least undecided on this nomination. So are some Democrats. But it's possible it could get tight in that Judiciary Committee, and that would be a very serious problem for Mr. Meese.

WOODRUFF: But you still think the odds are with Meese, even after this?

Dr. ORNSTEIN: The odds are with him right now. Getting this done early. As we could see what the confirmation of Mr. Baker to be secretary of the treasury, that just has been sweeping through, and as we'll probably see with the new secretary of education, Mr. Bennett, when you do it early in the term there's a presumption that the President should have his way. The longer that goes, the more that presumption turns against the prospective nominee.

WOODRUFF: Norman Ornstein, thank you once again for being with us. Jim?

LEHRER: Thank you, and good night, Robin.

MacNEIL: Good night, Jim. That's our NewsHour tonight. We'll be back tomorrow night. I'm Robert MacNeil.Good night.